Augmented Sixth Chords: Favorite Examples from Mozart and Haydn

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  • Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
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    Richard Atkinson discusses his favorite examples of augmented sixth chords from four mature masterpieces by Mozart and Haydn: Mozart’s G minor piano quartet, K. 478, Haydn’s C major string quartet, Op. 54 No. 2, Mozart’s C major string quartet, K. 465 (“Dissonance Quartet”), and Haydn’s Symphony No. 86 in D major. This is a fair use educational commentary that uses small excerpts from the following performances/recordings:
    Mozart - Piano Quartet in G minor, K. 478:
    Beaux Arts Trio; Bruno Giuranna
    Haydn - String Quartet in C major, Op. 54 No. 1:
    Endellion String Quartet
    Mozart - String Quartet in C major, K. 465 (“Dissonance Quartet”):
    Quatuor Mosaïques
    Haydn - Symphony No. 86 in D major:
    Orchestra of the 18th Century; Frans Brüggen
    00:00 - What are augmented sixth chords?
    03:30 - Mozart: Piano Quartet in G minor, K. 478
    06:02 - Haydn: String Quartet in C major, Op. 54 No. 1
    09:13 - Mozart: String Quartet in C major, K. 465 (“Dissonance Quartet”)
    15:01 - Haydn: Symphony No. 86 in D major

КОМЕНТАРІ • 245

  • @johnchessant3012
    @johnchessant3012 3 роки тому +123

    I would've clicked on a video called "Surprise Deceptive Cadences to the Flat Six Chord that Eventually Become German Augmented Sixth Chords" just out of sheer curiosity.

  • @threethrushes
    @threethrushes 3 роки тому +42

    Everyone gangster until Professor Atkinson drops mad knowledge on UA-cam.

  • @David-il9xw
    @David-il9xw 3 роки тому +17

    As a musical dunce, I salute those for whom this video may be fully appreciated.

  • @benjaminsagan5861
    @benjaminsagan5861 3 роки тому +120

    I would have gone with a "Swiss Sixth", in recognition of the fact that German, French, and Italian are all among the national languages of Switzerland.

    • @makytondr8607
      @makytondr8607 3 роки тому +5

      Haha, nice!

    • @enriquesanchez2001
      @enriquesanchez2001 3 роки тому +4

      ahahahahaha

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +29

      How about "Romansh +6?"

    • @markchapman6800
      @markchapman6800 3 роки тому +19

      Piston, in his Harmony text, uses Swiss 6th for the German 6th re-voiced to call the 3rd note an augmented 2nd above the tonic rather than a minor 3rd. The note then resolves up a semitone rather than down, which as Richard points out is what Mozart and Haydn both did, moving to the tonic 6-4 to avoid the parallel 5th.

    • @tobiolopainto
      @tobiolopainto 3 роки тому +10

      Try saying "Swiss Sixth" 10 times fast.

  • @doricdream498
    @doricdream498 3 роки тому +30

    Ger+6 > 6/4 is a sound thats become permanently etched into my mind over the past few months.

  • @cadavidgomez7275
    @cadavidgomez7275 3 роки тому +44

    Never clicked so fast

  • @Ivan_1791
    @Ivan_1791 3 роки тому +26

    I have just seen 20 seconds of this video and I already know it is fabulous.
    I'm pretty sure some teachers already use your videos as pedagogic tools.

  • @crocshock911
    @crocshock911 3 роки тому +19

    In a future video, can you talk about how Shostakovich uses tonality, and how Russian theory from the early 20th Century?

  • @DeflatingAtheism
    @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +14

    All of these examples are spectacular, the Haydn string quartet particularly so!

  • @micheal49
    @micheal49 3 роки тому +8

    One of the worst moments of my teaching career: some band director trying to tell second year theory students that Augment Sixth chords were actually inversions of ninths chords (with the root implied but not actually present) and that augmented sixth chords were only implemented on the sixth scale degree. I can only imagine what fun they had failing out of their graduate entry exams.
    Yeah, really.

  • @vrixphillips
    @vrixphillips 3 роки тому +28

    oh wow, I've kinda been "over" the classical era lately, but this pulled me right back in. And here I've been thinking that Haydn was boring af??????? my whole life is a lie.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +29

      I love this comment, because one of the primary goals of this channel is to help people realize that Haydn specifically is a top-tier composer.

    • @vrixphillips
      @vrixphillips 3 роки тому +3

      @@Richard.Atkinson got me to sight-read one of his piano sonatas yesterday, too haha. I don't think I've opened that book since I bought it.
      Anyway, I shared your video to my music-tumblr, no-tritones-for-you ^^

    • @DeflatingAtheism
      @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +3

      Have you heard the symphony where the string section tunes up in the middle of the development section? Penderecki eat your heart out!

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +5

      @@DeflatingAtheism If you're talking about the final 6th mvt. of Symphony No. 60 in C ("Il Distratto"), I talked about this moment in my video about Mozart's "A Musical Joke." But it's not in the development section...
      ua-cam.com/video/df3dr3cDOfo/v-deo.html

    • @kenmcguire5837
      @kenmcguire5837 3 роки тому +2

      @@Richard.Atkinson You are doing God's work. While I am not the theory geek of you or many here, I have found that when I look closely at Haydn String Quartets, I find many cases where Haydn does what what I was taught was original to Beethoven. Thanks for the great videos.

  • @derekdavid1
    @derekdavid1 3 роки тому +27

    "And if repeating a V-I cadence 4 times doesn't tonicize Eb major... Then I'm not sure what would" ROFL!!!!!

    • @derekdavid1
      @derekdavid1 3 роки тому +5

      P.S. 11:04 = Swiss 6th! LOL

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +6

      @@derekdavid1 Ha! I should've thought of that!

    • @henryng0725
      @henryng0725 3 роки тому +5

      Maybe it's "on" Eb major but not "in" Eb major.

    • @rabbibarrykornblau9877
      @rabbibarrykornblau9877 3 роки тому +2

      Only a fool such as I would argue with our dear host's dry and accurate sense of humor, but I think the distinction here between "modulating" for a few measures vs simply emphasizing the VIb with some of its dominant V7s is, to quote him in a comment, not substantive but rather a discussion of notational convention -- which from a listening point of view is irrelevant.

    • @DeflatingAtheism
      @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +3

      A II or IV would seal the deal!

  • @babawawayoyo
    @babawawayoyo 3 роки тому +1

    “This primitive compilation video from 2013” 😂😂😂hilarious AND smart! This was the best 23 minutes I’ve spent in a long time! Thank you so much 🙏

  • @kristian6566
    @kristian6566 3 роки тому +4

    3:20 God how I love your sense of humor

  • @Archiekunst
    @Archiekunst 3 роки тому +9

    I used to love the German sixth from Schubert symphonies, then grew to the French sixth from Chopin nocturnes, but after I discovered Wagner, nothing has overcome the Tristan chord.

  • @studiomilo
    @studiomilo 3 роки тому +10

    My favourite quandary when looking closely at Haydn and Mozart, is trying to determine when Beethoven becomes Beethoven. There are famous way points - the opening of the first symphony, and the fifth - but I often want to pin down more precisely and analytically what is truly novel, rather than expansion or style. For some reason I enjoy discovering what he took from them - 'now now you young turk - don't be ungrateful for papa Haydn's lessons !'
    The Mozart/Haydn/Beethoven trio is an almost incomprehensibly profound moment of musical history - and I thank you for these wonderful insights into their music, especially when their appreciation is sadly on the wane.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +9

      I don't think Beethoven got much out of his formal exercises with Haydn (he said as much himself), but Haydn was almost certainly his greatest influence, and it's pretty obvious Beethoven did extensive self-study of Haydn's works.

    • @studiomilo
      @studiomilo 3 роки тому +2

      @@Richard.Atkinson Absolutely. He was probably just being an angry young man. We have probably all been there - yawning through lectures during the day - realising we are going no where unless we study furiously all night.

    • @spiritofeden5377
      @spiritofeden5377 3 роки тому +5

      Mozart/Haydn/Beethoven/Schubert quartet!

    • @caterscarrots3407
      @caterscarrots3407 3 роки тому +4

      I don't think there is a clear point of where Beethoven becomes Beethoven. This is what I notice in the Classical Era Trio of composers as I go from early works to later works:
      Early Classical Era: Haydn already showing his humorous self, Young Mozart borrowing heavily from Haydn's style, showing the musical brotherhood they had from the start (ex. Symphony no. 1 in Eb, Mozart ; Symphony no. 22 in Eb, Haydn)
      Mid Classical Era: Haydn's style already established, Mozart takes Haydn's humorous style and develops it into his own "Complexity from Simplicity" type of style(Simple individual melodic lines, complex melodic interactions and development)(ex. Piano Sonata in D major, Haydn ; Paris Symphony, Mozart)
      Late Classical Era: Haydn stays with his Conservative Classicism and his rhythmic and dynamic humor, Mozart goes in a different direction with his style, more towards Middle Period Beethoven, Beethoven himself starts in a style not far off from his Middle Period style, then later goes to a more Mozartian style(Surprise Symphony, Haydn ; Symphony no. 40 in G minor, Mozart(First Movement and Finale both have similarities to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony) ; 9 Variations on a March in C minor, Beethoven(Early style, not too far off from Middle Period) ; Flute Sonata in Bb, Beethoven(Composed from 2 years before Mozart's death to 2 years after Mozart's death, it has a very Mozartian style, maybe Beethoven wrote it as a peaceful requiem for Mozart, showing how much he learned from Mozart)
      Turn of the Romantic Era: Haydn, still keeping with his Conservative Classicism, even as Beethoven's style changes to reflect the time, Beethoven's style really flourishes into one of it's own, like Mozart's did in the Mid Classical Era(String Quartet in D minor "Unfinished", Haydn ; Symphonies 3 and 5, Beethoven(with Symphony no. 5 especially foreshadowed by Mozart before) ; Pathetique Sonata, Beethoven
      Definitely Romantic Era: Mix of 2 styles by Beethoven, a more Classical Period, recall of Mozart type of style, akin to that in his Flute Sonata in Bb, and another style that takes his Middle Period style and pushes the boundaries even further(Symphony no. 8, Beethoven(Recall of Mozart's Era kind of style) ; Appasionata Sonata(Middle Period style pushed even further than in the Pathetique Sonata or his Fifth Symphony, A precursor to Chopin's style)

    • @DeflatingAtheism
      @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +2

      Several of the Haydn symphonies begin with a 'fantasy' intro that could be late Beethoven, as far as I'm concerned.

  • @bullcutgaming7749
    @bullcutgaming7749 3 роки тому +2

    Love these kind of videos. Thank you

  • @jillmcaleese6514
    @jillmcaleese6514 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you for posting.

  • @officaldungeons
    @officaldungeons 3 роки тому +1

    Appreciate your work! Keep it up!

  • @solracpilino1967
    @solracpilino1967 3 роки тому +2

    The two great friends back to life... thank you!!

  • @markkumollari
    @markkumollari 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you Richard, for these glorious videos!

  • @m.calloway2624
    @m.calloway2624 3 роки тому +3

    Another astute, delightful and enriching analysis.

  • @polyphoniac
    @polyphoniac 3 роки тому +1

    Wallace Berry, who taught music theory at the Univ. of Michigan in the 1970s, liked to refer to the "international sixth" (for obvious reasons) as the "Swiss sixth".

  • @noboi999
    @noboi999 3 роки тому +3

    Perfect timing we just started talking about aug6th chords in theory 😳

  • @jammusique
    @jammusique Рік тому +1

    Great info. Love your videos!!

  • @nicolasargon1436
    @nicolasargon1436 3 роки тому +2

    Fantastic, love the vids!

  • @RmDIrSudoSu
    @RmDIrSudoSu 3 роки тому +2

    Gosh I love your video, such a great content and some really great example. Glad I found your channel, you help me a lot in improving my writing, and in understanding so many great pieces.

  • @WoutDC
    @WoutDC 3 роки тому +4

    I can honestly most of the time just barely grasp your videos, seeing I only followed basic music theory classes for about a year, but they're still so much fun and so interesting, making me more aware of the wonders of (especially) the classical period, so big thanks for these great videos :)

  • @kawingng1600
    @kawingng1600 3 роки тому +6

    Waiting for so long...

  • @robertocarlosramirezfiguer3305
    @robertocarlosramirezfiguer3305 3 роки тому +2

    I remember reading about the origin of the names of augmented 6th chords in a music theory class at university. Tomorrow I will look for the book we used and write down that information.

  • @MisterJSF
    @MisterJSF 3 роки тому +4

    Very good job man, it’s nice to finally see someone making a video about harmony who really knows the rules of harmony ! 😉👍🎶

  • @KevinElamMusic
    @KevinElamMusic 3 роки тому +2

    Dope analysis. Thank you

  • @Tonymleao
    @Tonymleao 3 роки тому +3

    Great video!!

  • @montanaricello
    @montanaricello 3 роки тому +2

    Another fantastic video thank you very much!

  •  3 роки тому +4

    Oh yes, a fantastic selection of examples of augmented sixth chords! Especially the last example, such a great symphony!

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +4

      86 is such a masterpiece. But so are most of the others...

  • @ubiestinsula
    @ubiestinsula 3 роки тому +2

    Clear and totally helpful. Mystery solved. Thank you so much!

  • @mountainbiker8904
    @mountainbiker8904 3 роки тому +4

    I’m crazy about your channel! Also, allow me to commend you for giving so much attention to Haydn: a much underrated genius!

  • @LukS626
    @LukS626 3 роки тому +2

    As usual - thank you, thank you, thank you!

  • @danmozartino2864
    @danmozartino2864 3 роки тому +2

    When the world makes no sense, Atkinson provides an agmented feeling that beauty is out there, we just need to listen 😍

  • @giobrach
    @giobrach 3 роки тому +4

    Schubert's Great Symphony is also full of favorite examples

  • @Tizohip
    @Tizohip 3 роки тому +1

    another great video congratulations

  • @andrewnorris2
    @andrewnorris2 3 роки тому +1

    This was really interesting and beautifully presented, much appreciated. New Sub!

  • @Iluminacion32
    @Iluminacion32 2 роки тому +1

    Absolutely extraordinary.
    I love your intelligence.
    Thanks so much. !!!

  • @HanBurritoz
    @HanBurritoz 3 роки тому +5

    One of my favourite examples is in Haydn's op. 74 No. 3 String Quartet in the second movement. I really hoped you would analyze this heavenly piece.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +4

      Another great one!

    • @liangseng7474
      @liangseng7474 3 роки тому +1

      @@Richard.Atkinson Probably one famous German 6th which people might not notice occurs near in the beginning of Beethoven's 5th symphony (measure 20) which resolves straight to the dominant chord

  • @tahutoa
    @tahutoa 8 місяців тому +1

    21:52 that doubling sounds fantastic

  • @roin97
    @roin97 3 роки тому +8

    Such a fantastic video, as always! The augmented sixth progression is a personal favorite of mine, and your channel does justice to Haydn, who is sadly often neglected today (I personally believe that he is one of the best composers, if not *the* best).
    Perfect choice on ending it with the finale of 86, made my week. Thanks!

    • @christianwouters6764
      @christianwouters6764 3 роки тому

      I allways wondered why Mozarts' requiem has become so admired while the Haydn Stabat Mater is way better and in the same atmosphere, yet almost never performed. I agree with you that Haydn is undoubtedly one of the most complete musical geniuses of all time.

    • @roin97
      @roin97 3 роки тому

      @@christianwouters6764 interesting take. I don’t know if Haydn’s stabat mater is superior (or whether they are comparable), but it is definitely a very nice work.

  • @juanligorria8606
    @juanligorria8606 3 роки тому +1

    outstanding!

  • @NidusFormicarum
    @NidusFormicarum 3 роки тому +2

    Thanks for your inspireing uplaod! Augmented fifth chords can also be marvellous, I think. One exampple is Schubert's Impromptu nr. 3 in G flat, last chord of bar 4. Of course, in a minor key the dissonance "wants" to resolve downwards as in Mozart's great mass in c, the Qui tollis-part, bar 51, last beat.

  • @redShiftish
    @redShiftish 3 роки тому +2

    One of my all-time favorites is the sixth chord near the end of the Waldstein sonata (Beethoven) which resolves the C minor back to C major for the finale near the end of the coda.

  • @lucho2868
    @lucho2868 3 роки тому +2

    Good videos!!

  • @Ivan_1791
    @Ivan_1791 3 роки тому +4

    The second example is from such a magnificent string quartet! :)

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +3

      All 4 of its movements are strange/exceptional in some way...

    • @Ivan_1791
      @Ivan_1791 3 роки тому +2

      @@Richard.Atkinson Indeed.

    • @Tizohip
      @Tizohip 3 роки тому

      i love this quartet K465

  • @monsieur171
    @monsieur171 2 роки тому +1

    thanks for this

  • @jackminto7062
    @jackminto7062 3 роки тому +7

    I love parallel fifths and octaves. I recently completed my own set of 24 Preludes and Fugues (in homage more to Shostakovich than Bach) and one of my fugues deliberately uses parallel octaves.

    • @DeflatingAtheism
      @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +4

      I wrote a cello piece where parallel fifths between bII - > i and bVI - > V are a recurring thematic element. I like the severity of the sound, particularly when combined with open-string double stops on the cello.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +6

      @@DeflatingAtheism Without hearing your piece, for some reason, your description reminded me of this moment from the final 5th mvt. of Bartok's 4th Quartet (viola and cello playing double-stopped perfect fifths), starting at 1:17 in this video:
      ua-cam.com/video/U8TcrMFFqJg/v-deo.html

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +6

      P. S. This movement will be one of my next videos after the Brahms Symphonies...

  • @paulwellings-longmore1012
    @paulwellings-longmore1012 5 місяців тому

    Brilliant analysis. And those 'accented aggressive sixteenth note figures' that accompany the repeat of the theme in Haydn's Paris Symphony are also a speeded up version of the recurring 5-note motive

  • @TheMotherOfBambi
    @TheMotherOfBambi 9 місяців тому

    really nice video! I am subscribing now

  • @PLTConductorComposer
    @PLTConductorComposer 3 роки тому +3

    Without doubt the best use of this is Bruckner's 7th symphony, 2nd movement, where the climax is sitting on what sounds like a V7 of the movement's tonic (c#), but is actually a German 6th that resolves unexpectedly (with the cymbal crash!) into C major instead.

    • @threethrushes
      @threethrushes 3 роки тому +2

      Bruckner 7 is my profile picture.

  • @cippigna
    @cippigna 3 роки тому +2

    Such a good video! I subscribe

  • @DPCR00
    @DPCR00 3 роки тому +2

    Op 54 no 2 First movement from C to A♭ and out again by one of these 6th progressions - excellent
    -
    Interesting this jump down to flattened 6th. In the last movement of Mozart's last quartet, K590, first section ends in F and then straight into D♭, but...
    -
    it's the third movement deserves a video of its own...
    -
    Second half of minuet section..
    -
    C in bass, and on top C followed by C# then D followed by E♭...
    -
    And the E♭ becomes E♮ - C7 which brings us back to F...
    -

  • @einarkristjansson6812
    @einarkristjansson6812 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you atkinson. You are educating as always. Einar iceland

  • @firzaakbarpanjaitan
    @firzaakbarpanjaitan 3 роки тому +2

    Richard, although it's a little too much to ask, i would love to see you one day cover Mozart's Requiem, with all it's fugal glory.

  • @tunahancesur
    @tunahancesur 3 роки тому +2

    I would really appreciate it, if you would make a video about the ingenious counterpoint in the sixth movement of Brahms' Ein deutsches Requiem. Thanks in advance, I really love your videos.

  • @InceyWincey
    @InceyWincey 3 роки тому +1

    I scrolled past this video twice (making a mental note to come back to it of course) before watching, but I would have watched it first time round if it had the second title.

  • @mjutteau
    @mjutteau 3 роки тому +3

    The first example I thought of is the bar 2 of the fantasia in c minor and I believe there are many more in this piece

  • @romanticosdeitapua6074
    @romanticosdeitapua6074 3 роки тому +2

    The best, Very good.

  • @henryng0725
    @henryng0725 3 роки тому +3

    My favourite example is the reverse of the process: In Beethoven's open. 110 3rd appears a German sixth chord assumed to be a dominant seventh chord of Ab major but soon modulates to G minor.

    • @iwanabana
      @iwanabana 3 роки тому

      Brahms does that a lot!

  • @alessandropalazzani
    @alessandropalazzani 3 роки тому +3

    Richard Strauss is a master of emotional use of this kind of chords. I remember various lieder and the "religious"section in a flat major of also sprach zarathustra... ecc

  • @hbarendregt
    @hbarendregt 3 роки тому +5

    "Music is a mysterious mathematics, of which the elements are similar to infinity." (C. Debussy)

  • @THEDeathWizard87
    @THEDeathWizard87 3 роки тому +3

    Now that I listen to it, the inverted tonic chord 22:13 reminds me a lot of the transition to an inverted tonic chord in the first movement of Beethoven’s ninth. The rhythmically intense buildup culminating in an augmented 6th chord then giving way to a powerful inverted d minor chord really felt familiar. It could just be that they’re in the same key, but it’s too similar for me not to point it out

  • @GeometryDashDyno
    @GeometryDashDyno 3 роки тому +1

    Another excellent video, a BWV 891 analysis one day would be 💯

  • @taesakamoto4713
    @taesakamoto4713 3 роки тому +1

    I feel like I'm stuck in an escape room thinking about that resolution of i6/4 chord at the end. Thanks for bringing back the theory geek in me!! lol

  • @unboundboundarie211
    @unboundboundarie211 3 роки тому +2

    For the cadenitas 64 chords you can use C64 for major cadential 64 and c64 for minor 64

  • @PcCAvioN
    @PcCAvioN 3 роки тому +2

    My favorite theory assignments were the ones using Ger+6 as a V7 pivot chord 😁

  • @druther28
    @druther28 3 роки тому +73

    Music theory geeks, unite!

  • @kalaimanidhan
    @kalaimanidhan 3 роки тому +2

    Awesome

  • @caterscarrots3407
    @caterscarrots3407 3 роки тому +3

    I notice a slight correlation between the nationality of the composer and the most common augmented sixth chord in their works. So I notice more Italian augmented sixths in works of Italian composers(Mendelssohn for example), more French augmented sixths in works of French composers(Debussy and Liszt(one French by birth, the other French by being in France for a lot of his life)) and of course, more German augmented sixths in works of German and by extent Austrian composers(Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert). I’m not saying that for example German composers don’t use the French augmented sixth chord, because Schubert is known to do exactly that, I’m just saying that if the composer is German, it is very likely that the most common augmented sixth chord will be the German augmented sixth and same goes for French and Italian composers and chords.

    • @spiritofeden5377
      @spiritofeden5377 3 роки тому +2

      So Mendelssohn is Italian?

    • @caterscarrots3407
      @caterscarrots3407 3 роки тому +2

      @@spiritofeden5377 Well, I know he composed and performed in Italy. And I hear that Italian style in a lot of his works, with Symphony no. 1 being like the only symphony of his that I've listened to that's clearly more German than Italian(Beethoven's Fifth Symphony influence all over it). And I've listened to 3 of his 5 symphonies, symphonies 1, 3, and 4

    • @DeflatingAtheism
      @DeflatingAtheism 3 роки тому +3

      Schubert seems a little Frenchy in sensibility.

  • @UkuleleAversion
    @UkuleleAversion 3 роки тому +2

    The French augmented sixth is my favourite because as a jazz pianist I just see it as the Thelonious Monk chord/V7b5.

  • @jasperiscool
    @jasperiscool 3 роки тому +2

    The internationsl augmented sixth chord got me laughing out loud. Thanks!

  • @markhughes7927
    @markhughes7927 3 роки тому +2

    Would I be right in sensing a departure point for Schubert’s harmonic explorations in the separated and harmonically retarded upper string part in the Haydn quartet you presented?

  • @TimothyOBrien1958
    @TimothyOBrien1958 3 роки тому +3

    What happened to the Neopolitan Sixth? It was my fav.

  • @haydnenthusiast
    @haydnenthusiast 3 роки тому +2

    Could you sometime do an analysis of Mendelssohn's "Lobgesang"/Symphony no. 2 in B-flat Major? Particularly the Sinfonia first movement

  • @damienpoletti14
    @damienpoletti14 3 роки тому +11

    Can we also consider the augmented 6th chord like a dominant in an other scale ?
    For example in c minor, if we use the german version and change the F# to an Gb, it makes a Lab7 chord and so modulate in Db.
    Or use this in reverse, considering a dominant chord in a certain key like a augmented 6th chord of an other key and modulate using that.
    C => G7, the F become an E# so the G7 become an Ger6+ in B.
    Don't know if I'm clear enough, my english is not so great.

    • @btat16
      @btat16 3 роки тому +5

      Actually yes! The +6 chords have been very frequently used as a device to modulate from one key to its mediant. In my opinion, it’s pretty jarring if not done well, but it can be done pretty well.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +15

      Yes, that’s the point I’m making at 12:14.

  • @johnchessant3012
    @johnchessant3012 3 роки тому +7

    The third example with the German augmented 6th chord modulating to the key a half-step above the tonic could then have resolved as a Neapolitan sixth (another of your videos). Are there any examples of that?

    • @johnchessant3012
      @johnchessant3012 3 роки тому +3

      -I just realized the Neapolitan sixth in Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 23 (from your video) arises in exactly this way.-
      A more obscure one that came to mind was Chopin's Polonaise, Op. 40, No. 2, trio section. There's a passage that goes "V -> I (in A major) -> V -> I (in A-flat major)", which is a respelling of "German sixth -> Neapolitan sixth -> V -> I".
      Edit: Actually the Mozart example is missing a note so it doesn't qualify as an augmented sixth at all.

    • @liangseng7474
      @liangseng7474 3 роки тому +2

      Yes, try Mozart's piano concerto no. 17, 20 and 25 first movements, you can see the progression of N6, #ivdim7, V in there

  • @connormonday
    @connormonday 3 роки тому +10

    At 20:10 what do you think of notating it Vb64? Clunky looking in a comment but notating that the sixth above the bass is “flattened” would show that it’s a dominant with a 6th and 4th above the bass while still showing its quality.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +14

      That could work. All of this nuance with notation is largely just a question of people agreeing on a convention.

    • @enelabe
      @enelabe 3 роки тому

      Oops, I just wrote a comment saying that without reading this. Sorry for being redundant :/

  • @tejasnair3399
    @tejasnair3399 3 роки тому +1

    What’s the recording used of the Haydn quartet? The violins play 8:00 as crying, very fine!

  • @KAMILOALCA
    @KAMILOALCA 3 роки тому +2

    thanks im learn the orquestation thanks i can't understand english but you are the best your videos so very good explanation for me, sorry i don't know and my bad english, thanks

  • @andrewtessman9921
    @andrewtessman9921 3 роки тому +2

    So very true that the labels German, French and Italian are simply convenience... It really only exists in English labeling. I mentioned this once to my German theory prof, and although he found it interesting, he had never heard of them labeled so.

  • @Nereayli
    @Nereayli 3 роки тому +3

    hi, can you analyze the souvenir de florence 4th movement? D. Tchaikovsky.

  • @classicalmusic210
    @classicalmusic210 3 роки тому +3

    How would you describe this progression from the Agnus dei (bar 29) of Mozart Missa en honorem sanctissimae trinitatis K. 167? ua-cam.com/video/UTeLX4xSkw4/v-deo.html

  • @tobiasolai6035
    @tobiasolai6035 2 роки тому +1

    I'm trying to educate myself by studying different scores from the classical and romantic period in music. And there are some things I try to understand.
    Can you for instance have more than one dissonance at a time in classical music (before the 20th century)?
    And is it okay to have a dissonant chord where the resolved dissonance already exists in one of the other parts? For example in C-major; can you for instance have a chord consisting of G C and D that is heading to G H D, but H is already in one of the other parts even though C hasn't been resolved to H yet. I think I have seen something like this even in an example from the classical period.
    And also I wonder about the harmonic beat in classical music. Is there any rule concerning changing the harmonic beat or how often you can change the harmony?

  • @jeanphillippes2196
    @jeanphillippes2196 3 роки тому +2

    My teacher at music college said the easiest way to recognize Aug 6th chords was that Germans were fat, Italians thin and French scrunchy. Bach employed the chord at least twice in the 48 Preludes and Fugues, much to the annoyance of music theorists.

  • @VicenteSanches
    @VicenteSanches 3 роки тому +2

    Hi Richard! I would love to add portuguese subtitles to some of your videos. Is there any way i could do it? I think youtube doesn't allow community subtitles anymore.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +5

      If you can figure out how to do it, I'm happy to approve them.

    • @VicenteSanches
      @VicenteSanches 3 роки тому +1

      I think maybe I could do it in a txt file and send it to you, idk. I will study the best way to do it. Can we talk by mail?

  • @lylealburo8244
    @lylealburo8244 3 роки тому +2

    5:36 THAT WAS SO JUICYYYYY

  • @brannmitchell4602
    @brannmitchell4602 3 роки тому +2

    So Bach and Handel go out to a pub after a concert. Bach grabs a table in the middle of the room. Handel announces, "I've been working on a new form." Bach says, "Oh, yeah? Show me." Handel walks up the bar and orders two pints. The first beer arrives and he picks it up, drops it, catches it with his foot and flings it over his head! It somersaults, lands on the table, and slides to a stop in front of Bach, with not a single drop spilt. The second pint arrives, Handel picks it up, drops it, catches it with his foot and flings it over his head! Somersaulting, the frothy pint lands on the table, spins and wiggles, sliding to a stop in front of where Handel was sitting, with nary a drop of the precious liquid spilt.
    "What do you call that?" Bach asks.
    "It's my two pint counter-punt!"

  • @Fumozart
    @Fumozart 2 роки тому

    which recording u used for the Haydn symphony?

  • @joelrivardguitar
    @joelrivardguitar 2 роки тому

    In the Mozart Quartet when it goes to Eb why isn't that last 2 beats just a quick Eb7 before it goes back to G? The Eb7 would pull to the D7 (except he has a quick measure of G first, clever). I get that the written note is C# which is aug 6, but it's an Eb7? It sounds like an Eb7. It also does a delayed pull to D7 which strengthens the dom7 sound in both chords.

  • @lesterwyoung
    @lesterwyoung 3 роки тому +3

    Isn't an augmented sixth the same as a flatted seventh?

  • @gustavomatos6522
    @gustavomatos6522 3 роки тому +3

    How do i modulate from A flat to D minor? I know this is a little random but those Atkinson videos makes me wonder about modulation, and I'm stuck. If somebody can help me, i would appreciate.

    • @iwanabana
      @iwanabana 3 роки тому

      A bit late: there are ten billion ways but how about after setting the key of Ab:
      Ab - A halfdim7/G - D7/F# (now youre already in g minor territory but you can skip straight to) - F dim7 - C/E, you can go to A7/E and voilà D minor.
      This sort of follows the principle of chromatic movement in opposing directions.

    • @iwanabana
      @iwanabana 3 роки тому

      In the same vein: you can use A flat as the Neapolitan of G minor, and go
      Ab - Ab/C - gm/D - e dim7 - dm/F - e halfdim7/g - A - dm.

    • @iwanabana
      @iwanabana 3 роки тому

      Ab - Ab7/Gb - F7 - Bb - ehalfdim7/g - A - dm
      Ab - f# dim7 - Bb/F - ehalfdim7 - dm

  • @enelabe
    @enelabe 3 роки тому +2

    20:20 The correct notation of a minor tonic chord in the context of a major tonality would be:
    b6 - 5
    4 - 3
    V________
    However, the cadential 6/4 should only be notated over a dominant (V) chord only if it resolves back to its original 5/3 state, as we understand the 6 and the 4 as appoggiaturas. In this example, the 6/4 doesn't resolve directly to the dominant 5/3, as another chord is introduced in between the two, so I would find writing I 6/4 more adequate, because writing a V 6/4 on its own could mean it's just a second inversion of a dominant chord.
    I don't really like the American way of notating major chords in caps and minor chords in lower case letters; here in Europe we would notate a sharp or a flat above the chord (where the 3 should be) to indicate its mood. For example, in the context of a piece in C major:
    I ---> C major
    b
    I ---> C minor

  • @Timpanocity
    @Timpanocity 3 роки тому +5

    11:03 I'd call that a Swiss +6

  • @Cherodar
    @Cherodar 3 роки тому +5

    While it's of course true that the cadential 6/4 is part of the dominant, I'd argue that the minor 6/4 in your last Haydn example isn't a cadential 6/4--it's a passing 6/4, as part of a le-sol-fi-sol schema (something to look up, if you haven't already!)--and that therefore your i6/4 label is correct. I think the anti-I6/4 movement has gone too far in suggesting that the label "I6/4" is *always* wrong, when really the point of it was just to argue that the cadential 6/4 (which isn't all apparent I6/4s) isn't a I.

    • @Richard.Atkinson
      @Richard.Atkinson  3 роки тому +6

      I generally try to stay out of these semantic arguments over labeling, but somehow I allowed myself to be involved in this one...

    • @Cherodar
      @Cherodar 3 роки тому +2

      It can be rather a vortex! Good job avoiding most of them, but yes, this one's tough to stay away from.

    • @Cherodar
      @Cherodar 3 роки тому +1

      @Austin Culler Agreed completely! My only quibble is the label "V6/4" itself. I know what it's trying to say, but isn't it a little inconsistent compared to what the usual meaning of "I6" (for example) is? Arguably that's more a problem with the Roman numeral system itself than anything else, since it's a little weird that the Roman numeral indicates the root while the Arabic numerals reference the bass.

    • @Cherodar
      @Cherodar 3 роки тому

      @Austin Culler Yes, all that is true, but I guess I should put my qualm a bit more pointedly. In C major, if we call G-C-E a V6/4, what do we call D-G-B?

    • @Cherodar
      @Cherodar 3 роки тому

      @Austin Culler Mmhmm yeah, to me it sort of seems to point towards Roman numerals maybe no longer being the right solution in general, though unfortunately nothing's really swooped in to take their place!