The "Death" of Media Literacy
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- 'Media literacy' has been the newest academic buzzword to hit the discourse in online fandoms, however it isn't as cut and dry as some may think and especially when considering the female oriented manga of shoujo.
I also recommend these great videos!
• Is media literacy in c...
• History of Media Liter...
• Why the Curtains are B...
COPY EDITOR:
Cass Moulton
SOURCES:
docs.google.com/document/d/1e...
SOCIAL MEDIA:
beacons.ai/colleensmangarecs
SUPPORT ME ON PATREON:
/ colleensmangarecs
0:00 Opening Sketch
2:10 The Discourse Begins
4:31 So What IS Media Literacy?
6:10 The 3 Reasons
7:25 "It's Not That Deep Bro"
9:36 Instant Gratification
11:15 Moral Purity
13:21 Misogyny and Purity
15:33 How Can I Fit Shoujo Manga Into Everything
16:00 Ouran High School Host Club
17:42 Ceres Celestial Legend
20:00 Policing Romance Fiction
21:45 The "Toxic Romance" of A Condition Called Love
23:43 The Cacophony of Online Discourse
28:14 Removing the Agency from Female Protagonists
30:18 Twofold Privilege
32:00 Closing - Розваги
hi
Hi
I had to check if there was indeed an "hi" in the pin comment.
hi
'Sup! 😃
Just as the prophesy foretold... 🔮
the phrase “not that deep” makes me sooo angry as someone who loves critiquing/discussing media. Like that’s the best part!
Yeah! I love diggin around in the media pit!
Same! Reminds me of recently where I was discussing a Condition Called Love with someone who claimed that it's just wish fulfillment for most fans of the series where Hananoi is the desirable dreamy mysterious shoujo boy with Hotaru as a bland self insert. I was like well no actually I heavily relate to Hananoi's flaws and insecurities and don't find him desirable. I explained why I resonated so strongly with his character and got hit with the "it's not that deep" 😑 If someone doesn't want to discuss or analyze media that's fine but it annoys me when people brush you off and double down on their statements because they refuse to look at anything past the surface level or consider ideas that oppose their own.
I used to be friends with people who said that a lot. These days not so much. Growing up can be nice, faster to weed out bad personality haha.
To be fair there is times when something has little to no depth. Michael Bay movies do not have much depth to them and Tarantino is largely about style when it comes to his movies unlike David Lynch movie or a manga like Urusei Yatsura.
as a great philosopher once said, "maybe it's not, but the ground is soft and i am ready to dig"
edited: shit someone else quoted the same tumblr post like 2 comments down lmao
To quote a beloved tumblr post: " 'It’s not that deep' Maybe not originally, but the ground is soft and I’m ready to dig.""
*Gasp *
Characters having arcs over multiple chapters and not bending into perfect boyfriends after seeing the main lead for the first time?
How scandalous!
😒
yes
Between Hananoi and Denji in the latest CSM chapters I'm starting to think people just aren't ready for actually mentally ill and flawed protagonists
People really struggled with seeing Denji and Asa fumble in an incredibly awkward encounter (I'm avoiding spoilers here) in that chapter (you which), that was clearly meant to be messy and confusing (and weird, as its usual for Chainsaw Man). Instantly people jumped into the SA narrative disregarding pretty much everything established by the story and its characters, and it was clearly not in line with what the author was going for (which was clearly laid out in subsequent chapters).
The twitter meltdown was real, with a bunch of people starting projecting their own SA narrative and criticizing everyone not falling in line, even implying people were making excuses for it. Trying to assert their moral purity over those who didn't see it the way they wanted everyone to see.
@@LightningRaven42 Not even that they fumbled, it's because it was, in fact, SA, but committed by Yoru rather than either of them. Both are victims
@@jayvee3165exactly!
@@BaneDane_JB It's still about loss of control, and the characters not engaging with it as SA so far doesn't make it not be SA and have long lasting effects on them.
Fujimoto has shown time and time again these are things he takes into consideration when writing these characters and portraying their psyche in the story, that's just another stone thrown at the both of them that will influence their development.
It's absolutely not "just good to enrage farm bluecheck bucks" as it's an actual aspect of the story ever since Himeno.
@@BaneDane_JBI've not really engaged with chainsaw man much but people are really out here calling Makima Princess Bubblegum and then when I say bubblegum isn't a predator(and tbh any similarities are rather different in motive. I don't see the commonality at all tbh.), they tell me that bubblegum is a predator. Like how did yall get that from adventure time. 🤦 Shes not a good person and manipulative but Bubblegum was not grooming Finn 😭 at least not in a pdf file way. Makima was straight up grooming no questions asked.
"The curtains were blue" did so much damage to people.
especially because in a BOOK, any visual detail thats given is there by choice. WHY did the author mention that the curtains were blue? a good writer would use elements like this for more than just making the scene more believable. anything that's put in media is there by choice, and assuming it just "happened to be that way", like it is in real life, if just plainly refusing to engage with media as a narrative with meaning.
@@loycos3648And even if the detail was an accident, why not analyze it too? it can lead to various interesting conclusions on various topics that fit the text that the author may not have considered, why stay with the literal reading of the text when we can take it further?
@@tommy2051I have blue curtains up in my home and tbh there's probably more back story there if I think about it
@@loycos3648the point being that not everything is some kind of forced metaphor, sometimes the author is just using visual language to set the scene and paint a picture in the mind of the reader.
Author intent is more valuable and important than the reader's analysis, and it's why good authors will openly answer questions about their world with "I don't know" or "I havent thought about that"
@@Vanity0666 _Is_ Author intent more valuable? Most people will not actively search out what the author thinks when they experience a story, so analyzing how it affects a larger subset of people will ultimately be more true to the actual effect of a media.
"If media literacy wasn't dead, maybe you could read the room!" has ended me :""D
someone finally commenting on that line!!!! I thought it was so funny and no one in the comments had said anything lol
@@ColleensMangaRecs it actually made me laugh out loud !! if that line has a million fans I'm one of them , if it has only one fan it's me etc :""))
I think with romance, people need to accept that most often, romance is not a guidebook or an endorsement, but a FANTASY. And sometimes, that fantasy includes stuff that would be a bad idea in real life. Like, take "Mr. and Mrs. Smith." Those two spend literally half the movie trying to kill each other. They're assassins, they're bad people, in real life their relationship would be thoroughly dysfunctional and unhealthy. But it's not real life. It's a love story, and part of that story is the fantasy of having this exciting, intoxicating relationship where both parties are very powerful and evenly-matched, who navigate their toxicity and dysfunction to find true love. Same with "Twilight" - most teenage girls who loved Edward understood that in real life, stalking = bad, your boyfriend having restrain himself from killing you = bad. But the fantasy of "Twilight" is the idea that you, a Plain Jane without many friends at school, could be so special and unique that a handsome, brooding boy would not only love you, but do literally anything to be at your side, including fight his very nature. It's why bodice ripper romance novels have such wild plots that often involve kidnapping or forced marriage or worse - for some people, that's an appealing fantasy.
Sometimes, the romantic fantasy is "a man learns from his mistakes and apologizes to you." Sometimes it's a bit spicier. But a fantasy that never crosses into real life action is, by definition, not hurting anyone, and most people are aware of where the line is. I'm not saying we shouldn't critically engage with romance fiction, not at all. But a lot of the discourse of people clutching their pearls because a story "romanticizes an unhealthy dynamic" often has me rolling my eyes, because it's always done in this tone that implies readers (usually women and girls) are too dumb to understand that what's romantic in a story wouldn't work in real life.
THANK YOU. You worded my thoughts perfectly. Fiction is a save space to explore things and feelings you may not want to have for real, thats why it is a necessity to have problematic topics covered in fiction imho.
This also works across all genres. I remember when people used to bash me because I liked unrealistic sports manga and anime. I'm like yeah, that's the point. I like sports but watching others play it is usually boring to me. Make all the important characters professional level athletes with good framing and some goofy dramaticism that tunes everything up to 1000% and I love it.
I think the real problem stems when people don't accept enjoyment and analysis can both coexist. Some people analyzing take things way to far and project their conclusions onto the fanbase of those enjoying, ironically lacking the insight that the two are different things to analyze, whereas some people enjoy stories too much that they assume any criticism or in depth analysis they hear of their story makes them believe it's a personal attack. Worse, they amplify each other because some people do things maliciously and now they assume everyone else is the same. One person gets personally attacked and now they are wary of the next person, and vice versa.
you may be my favorite comment in this comment section XD
true, but I do think the phrase ‘it’s just a fantasy’ can only go so far. I 100% believe most readers when consuming any romance media don’t actually want everything in the story to happen to them. however there are some stories that are definitely just bad and kinda strange to fantasize about (talking about stuff with romanticized rape, strange racial dynamics, and the like). I don’t think they should be banned, but should definitely be talked about in more mature ways (at least more than what I’ve seen, but it’s the internet so I can’t stop anyone) but idk just my thoughts.
Say it louder for the people in the back!! I'm also tired of media discussion that's just 'oh this depicts something that'd be bad irl therefore if you like it you must be supporting that idea irl and is a bad person' like what??
The amount of policing of girls' media is legitimately unsettling.
And the worst thing is that a lot (maybe most) of the time it’s women policing ourselves. The misogyny is so deep that we are often each others greatest critics.
@@Philosophicalpapertinatural byproduct of patriarchial heirarchy
Not remotely a gender thing.
Plenty of fantasy about r*pe, incest, and lolicon gets criticized.
Ive noticed its almost always media for girls. Women can not like anything besides the most tamest of things.
Ad others have mentioned its almost always younger women/girls that harass girl media/fans
The funniest thing about the Hananoi situation is that there are actual Shoujo anime and manga that literally have toxic relationships shown in a positive light.
It’s usually the Shoujo stories that either aren’t popular in the west despite getting an anime adaptation, or are cancelled early on.
as a casual Wolf Girl and Black Prince enjoyer... yeah lol
@@ColleensMangaRecsThat's extremely toxic and also ita kiss. Honestly I dropped this series a condition called love too , cause some of it's action triggered me I think here the protagonists are very different type of people. However narcissistic behaviours can be masked under these behaviours too and that's what scared me cause I had some experiences like that.
@@ColleensMangaRecs Nice to see another casual Wolf Girl and Black Prince enjoyer.. I've seen so many videos about it being toxic, and I'm like "yes I know" but I still enjoy it and don't want to feel bad about that.
@@ira__s you guys are so much stronger than I am. I will never touch Wolf Girl and Black Prince ever again. That said if Colleen has a video about I might as well watch it
1) loved your opening skit
2) it's very frustrating when the opposite ends of discourse are "too critical" vs "don't be critical at all" like can't we just find a happy medium
On the internet? No never hahah
The second one seriously pisses me off.
Minor criticism towards what people love sets them off and if you compliment something they hate.....
The notion of it being possible to be "too critical" is inherently anti-intellectual. The conflation of critique and judgment is ultimately the source of the issue here. You can like things even if they're technically flawed. That should be obvious, as perfection is largely impossible and enjoying nothing is a recipe for misery.
We really need to get away from the whole “the protagonist/love interest must be perfect or they’re evil.” This is perfectionism and it’s absolutely toxic, not only to art but to ourselves. Yes, our media influences how we view the world, and should be criticized when it does so in harmful ways. But it’s also art, and art needs room to breathe and make mistakes and be messy. Just like we do. Rather than attacking, a better approach is understanding. Maybe by examining our need for perfection, we can learn to have grace for others, and ourselves.
me personally I love disaster protagonists. there's an anime airing this season Mayonaka Punch, where the main character is a UA-camr that got cancelled, and much of her behavior and attitude suggest she wasn't innocent in that, and her attempts at damage control are pretty ill-advised. I feel like a lot of people will immediately write off the show because of her, because they're not willing to give a narrative about a deeply flawed, shitty, narcissistic person a chance. any time an anime comes out now where the protagonist is a dirtbag, it gets the same immediate kneejerk response. Or if the protagonist does something of dubious, complicated morality, as with The Executioner and Her Way of Life (that series' reaction needs to be studied as a case study in misogyny in anime fan spaces; seriously I feel like if all other things were equal and Menou was male, the reaction would be dramatically different - and I'd bet my entire savings on this).
I feel like seeking moral purity in media is also about validating stagnation. Just a bunch of people projecting & denying having their own flaws *insert main character syndrome* (and online, they are LOUD ). Like, yeah, it is uncomfortable to realize you're doing something wrong\problematic. The discomfort that comes with the awareness, is essential to personal growth. It continuously makes you notice the behaviour and pushes you to change. Trying to avoid that, or skip it entirely is really sad.
On a more lighthearted note, loved this video! The intro skit & The System Of A Down clip meant *everything* to me!!!!!
I'm glad someone appreciated the toxicity joke hahaha
I think one of the most valuable things about stories is that it makes you think differently and reflect on your own life.
a condition called love is probably my favorite romance manga. watching hananoi and hotaru grow and develop their understanding of love is so satisfying and heartwarming
I always hate when my mum goes "oh Laura its not that deep its entertaining." Mum I bloody got a degree in looking into how The Odyssey and The Aeneid reflects their cultures, yes it is deep!
the odyssey and the aeneid mention ‼️
"The Odyssey had a purpose..."
Okay now do Blood Meridian and Chronicle of A Blood Merchant
the thing that upset me the most over the shitty discourse about hananoi is that it's essentially just villainizing mental illness. the kid (and he IS A KID mind you) is pretty obviously dealing with behavioral health issues that are a direct response to recent and ongoing childhood wounds. and guess what? that's always the case in real life, too. people irl aren't just toxic in a vacuum. by being overly focused on surface level morality, we're essentially cutting ourselves off from finding actual solutions to serious societal problems. and no, toxic & harmful behavior being symptomatic of psychological disfunction doesn't remove accountability ... it's not "making excuses for bad behavior" because it's not excusing it, it's pointing to causation. until we can overcome our collective need to bolster our own sense of goodness by making someone else bad and wrong, we will continue to fumble as a society on matters of social justice, mental health and any number of interrelated issues.
This video is the healing cream I needed after recently coming across someone who rated the Utena movie a very low score with the comment "ewww twincest 🤮🤮🤮🤮" like no wonder you're so clueless about that series when that's all you watched and all you took away from it.
Watching Utena and thinking that anyone behind the show/movie is trying to endorse incest sure is a take 😳
@@thais_cdm granted this person only watched the movie but even then the movie isn't exactly a shining endorsement for incest so everything else definitely went over their head. more context was i was going on about how utena really delves into gender and they were just all wdym and I was so flabbergasted thinking they'd seen the series and completely didn't get anything only to find out about the movie thing.
It’s exactly what I’ve been saying about Hananoi! I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen people keep calling him a red flag. The whole point of this relationship is that both of them will grow, with each other’s help. It’s like people don’t understand what character development is.
The descriptions sounds similar to * I can fix him * is it like that?
@@lordtetteNot exactly. While Hotaru does jump-start Hananoi's self-reflection and growth, a lot of his development is more about him understanding other people better and learning from her reactions to his behavior. Hotaru's goals in entering the relationship are not about "fixing" Hananoi but about her own path to learning what being in love means.
Ok but hananoi literally is a red flag? You say people don't understand character development, no offense but it doesn't sound like you know what character development is either. Growing and changing red flag tendencies is development, pretending those things never existed and that character was always perfect you just didn't know it yet, is a retcon. Hananois entire character arc is working on himself, learning and overcoming the behaviors that are harmful to himself and others. A red flag is a warning, not a death sentence, they are red flags because he presents a lot of behaviors that would make him an abuser if he doubled down instead of accepting he was wrong. Seriously if you think none of his behaviors are a red flag then wouldn't that make hotaru a red flag for calling him out and scolding him over them? Those red flags are the whole point of the story lol.
@@Demonsta But folks who label MLs as "red flags" are typically using that as a static label that indicates that anyone who likes the character or the work they are in is morally complicit and endorsing their behavior. I have yet to see it being described as a starting point for a character that they can develop out of. And labeling a traumatized teenage boy a red flag/abuser instead of exploring the what might be going on with his behavior feels reductive and weird.
@@thais_cdm I'll read it for myself and not let other's opinion colour it. Thank you for your reply.
Ngl id love more of these videos analyzing manga that has been rendered to being "toxic" or "a red flag"
I just like seeing how other people view such things
The day i realized that so much of media criticism or discussion overall was just people implicitly forcing their ”beliefs” on what ever they watched, changed me forever. So many conversations around critiquing fem characters, arguments about filler vs slice of life, or endorsing vs presenting something were just people trying to force the stuff they consumed into whatever bins they had marked out in their heads. They can’t comprehend nuance that decenter’s their beliefs 😒
Something similar happened to me when I heard Camille Paglia's: "going through the text with a red marker" quote. This egocentric idea that you as the reader, are above the text, and are engaging with it to ensure it suits you and your own ideas.
It takes away from the humanity of engaging in earnest, and the unspoken agreement you make as a reader to suspend the meta-textual and engage with the text itself. Calling the text itself toxic, or accusing the author of "bad writing" when you didn't like what happened, or demanding the work be censored, or whatever else.
It is so perverted and wrong to me.
“Freedom of thought is important” mf’ers committing mental bondage (they must fit into the ARCHETYPE)
Thank you for pointing out that Hotaru is also a character in the story and not a self-insert for girls to pretend to date Hananoi. The way so many online discussions about shoujo romance center around how viable the main male MC is as a partner rather than understanding him as an element in a story that also centers around the *actual* main female MC frustrates me to no end.
Doubly so in my case because I don't like men!! I don't care if he's a red flag, does that red flag come with themes??!! How is it affecting our main girl?? Get out of the way, no one asked if you'd personally date him.
Yeah I think people insert themselves into stories way too much and treat romance series like a guidebook 101 on relationships. It's always "well I would NEVER date X character" or "If I was the MC I would do XYZ". Which is why the terms "red flag" or "green flag" annoy to me no end because it removes any nuance in discussions. To quote a reddit comment I saw "red flags are a great tool to avoid real people for real life issues but not so great for character analysis and storytelling because people just reduce characters to the color of flags no matter how complex, well written and developed they are". That about sums up my feelings on those terms.
@@blacksiren18135 I worry its even worse and many people treat real people with character flaws even worse than they treat fictional ones. Perfect partners with no potential drawbacks don't exist and I don't see anyone finding the next best thing if they see themselves as potential victims in a morally monochrome world of the blameness and the narcisistic.
There's no such thing as a self-insert character within a story. It's a meta-analysis of a character's function for the intended audience that has less than nothing to do with the story. It comes across as pretentious and performative rather than insightful when people speak about self-insert characters because it shows that they fundamentally misunderstand the concept of fiction in and of itself.
With the romance genre in particular, I’ve found that #3 (moral purity) is the most prevalent form of media literacy loss in comment sections/discussion boards. People will refuse to even read or engage in discussions about any controversial stories or flawed characters. Comics and shows are visual media that require visual cues; instead of a narrator voice explicitly telling us the love interest is jealous, the love interest is shown engaging in “problematic” trope behavior to display jealousy. You hit the nail on the head when you said that harmful behaviors in shoujo media are not an endorsement, and that critically analyzing controversial media can be positive learning exercises. Another great video!!!!
I did my MA thesis about Romance novels, specifically New Adult romances, which have a very high prevalence of 'bad boy' characters and 'toxic' relationships. When I was doing research, the massive gap between how Romance readers talk about the Romance genre and the tropes within it and the non-Romance readers talking about the same things was staggering. It quite often followed the 'they're characters, they're more extravagant versions of people you might already know or wish not to know, the fantasy of it is the attraction' (the Romance readers) and the 'this corrupts the gullible female readers who will take it for a guidebook' (the non-Romance readers) distinction that Colleen also points out in the video. In many cases, the time in which the research was done didn't even really matter (I worked with stuff from the 80s and stuff that had only been published a year or two before I worked on my thesis), it was mostly if the researcher was familiar with the genre and if the people they were interviewing were familiar with the genre. There were so many layers to the whole thing, but 'protect the innocent female readers from false promises' was one of the weirdest ones (especially since NA is usually very spicy, so claims of 'innocence' really felt off here).
Love this video, lots of things that I often encounter as a Romance author and reader too.
I felt like with Saiki K no one could tell that the incest was part of the parody 😭😭 like Saiki and everyone else think it’s gross and Teruhashi’s brother says she’s like a dead fish or something so it’s so clearly making fun of him and the incest trope but ppl don’t get that
Here after the video has finished and i feel like smth you should have included in regards to the misogyny/Condition Called Love part of this video is how there's WAY LESS concern about "problematic" aspects in anime and manga aimed at male audiences.
The fact that people still think Hananoi is "creepy" because of issues stemming from trauma that he slowly overcomes with time while praising shows like The Dangers In My Heart where the MC Kyotaro fantasizes about killing others, is a clear example of this. Like sure, they both change, but Kyotaro started off WAY WORSE than Hananoi.
From my experience, any time I do compare and contrast with shonen series I get way more shit flung at me so I tend to leave it out of my points now since I feel I can drive the point home without it well enough. I agree with what you said though as I've thought the exact same thing about the treatment between Dangers and Condition...
@@ColleensMangaRecs Dangers is actually a seinen but I understand.
Taking Kyotaro's inner chunibyo monologues seriously is a prime example for media illiteracy. Claiming that male media is not policed by the twitter activists is also confession in an entirely different confirmation bias.
Isn't that just the nature of the fanbase that some anime targeted for women are? Generally, men are less likely to critique media from a leftist point of view.
im glad there are people that understand the nuaces of a condition called love. i desperately relate to hananoi having bpd, being insecure, and and being alone for most of my childhood. i can be obsessive in any relationship and i understand my flaws but i dont do it to be harmful im just scared of abandonment; i try really hard and i think ive found people that are helping me grow.
hananoi really spoke to me and i was really heartbroken when i heard people hating him, it felt like they were hating me for things i genuinely dont do out of malice. it made me feel unlovable
sorry if i may have misinterpreted anything from the series or video, please do tell me if i have
I also deeply relate to Hananoi with my own similar issues. Sometimes you just don't know how bad your mental state is as a kid and it takes years to even get the help you need. But there's also nothing wrong with wanting to find someone who loves you either.
@@malicetosociety didnt ask thanks
@@malicetosociety Your username definitely checks out, do you get a kick out of making people miserable? I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this, likke_otter, wishing you the best.
@@b.h.4249 ty for your kind words, i appreciate it
@@malicetosociety"personality disorders" are horribly named. They're actually maladaptive coping mechanism patterns ingrained since early childhood from abuse. They're not a personality. Therapy can very often put them into remission, meaning the criteria are no longer met. You harassing mentally ill and disabled people behind a keyboard(anywhere, tbh) sure does help everybody recover! /s Nice ableism all around. 🙄
(You also don't know jack about these disorders based on everything you said. Seek therapy for your own crap. You're projecting.)
I really appreciated your section on triggers and discomfort. I feel like a lot of people assign moral value to triggers, as though what does and does not get a truly upsetting emotional rise out of you has something to do with your character and not just...random events in your life? past trauma? there's nothing wrong with wanting to skip ouran because you're triggered by the whole punchline surrounding the twins. you don't even have to be triggered by it to just not find it funny, no one's forcing you to read it. but it creates an easy opening to pass moral judgement on those who aren't bothered by it and are capable of engaging. there's an obvious double standard in protestant American culture for acceptance of violence vs sex. who's to say the person who's bothered by the twins from ouran but not by true crime content is morally superior? why do we assume people should feel a certain way about certain topics, but not others? not to mention the anti-intellectualism and lack of empathy this attitude fosters. there's a refusal to acknowledge what anyone would even get out of a piece of art that defies societal norms. no empathy, no curiosity, just derision and moral grandstanding. people will refuse to be uncomfortable when engaging with art and then wake up surprised they're banning books in schools! its truly baffling stuff
Incredible video. Loved the insight. When I saw the "controversy" surrounding Hananoi, I was so upset because characters these days are not allowed to be flawed for some reason. They have to be perfect from get-go or else they are immediately deemed a 'red flag.'
And even if they are flawed, every single flaw needs to be explained or addressed immediately in the specific way a person demands them to be otherwise it’s bad.
Yeah, it sucks that we can’t have flawed love interests. I noticed it’s only romance series where it’s an issue. If it’s any other moral issue like murder and such, you rarely see any controversial takes like you would with romance series.
I love Yakuza Fiancé and crunchyroll announced it back in October and I am worried on what kind of reception it will get once it airs seeing how controversial Hananoi was. I mean we got Itsoumi from Sign of Affection being called a ‘red flag’ just because he was ‘too touchy’ though Yuki never once disliked it
I love other works from Watase, but I found Ceres to be so ridiculous, my time felt really wasted with it. But I would never think it endorses twincest as it does the opposite (while capitalizing on gross visuals, matching the overarching body horror theme imo). Apart from manga, I also often read people write stuff like "Bridget Jones endorsed heroin chic and toxic diet culture trends" although it just portrayed a woman brainwashed by her times' beauty standards and her struggle with it. People really do need to stop a second with just repeating the opinions they read online and instead watch/read the media themselves; making up their own minds away from the noise before rejoicing discussions about it
I'm glad that you brought up the "it's not that deep" side of this discourse. I often see people talking about the moral purity side of the problem fall into that trap themselves, accusing people who critically analyse a work of being media illiterate because they came away with the reading that the work in question has messaging they don't like.
I'm convinced that people who think that Ouran has incest have never read nor watch the thing. Maybe they see a short or an edit of some parts of the anime/manga somewhere and decide that's enough info to judge a show. Cuz like how can you not see that they're being sarcastic about it?
Its not a show or genre i'm familiar with, but im curious. What if it was about incest? Is that not a valid subject to be written about?
A Condition Called Love is special to me because I related closely to the main male character's approach to love when I was younger. it’s frustrating to see people judging the anime solely based on a character who is intentionally flawed and three-dimensional.
I never really vibed with A Condition Called Love, but I still think it's at least trying to do something interesting.
I mean, they got together in the first episode! With clear understanding that Hotaru needs time to fall in love.
You should give it a try
the anime adaptation is a terrible, messy portrayal of the story. i highly recommend you read the manga instead. there are a lot of important details that the anime skipped over to get to the ‘meat’ of the story. a condition called love is meant to be a slow-paced, introspective discussion on what love is expected to be vs it’s reality. unfortunately, the anime was just made to be another cheesy romcom without any real substance
@@springrisotto
Yeah, I tried reading the manga, but it just wasn't it for me.
It reminded me of Bloom Into You, which I personally liked a lot more.
Man, this whole video really hit on so much of what I've been seeing in so many discussion circles, whether its shojo, anime/manga in general, film, theater, etc... How instant gratification drives the demand for quicker and quicker reactions, or the rise of moral purity that takes certain *fictional* tropes particularly in girl's/women's media without even considering context (when it was written, the tone of the work, how a sensitive subject is handled and the author's intent in using it, etc...).
And it's 100% true that whole both shojo and shonen with "problematic" aspects/tropes can be often as easily criticized, critique on girls' media is almost always more stringent & harsher. Failures to live up to certain moral standards or expectations is seen as a greater sin than anything found in their shonen counterparts ("targeted towards impressional young girls" after all). The latter is so often excused as dumb fun, typical, and "targeted towards boys, so what should you expect? It does exactly what it says on the tin." Or people bend over backwards how the necessary context justifies it without the majority of people giving the same grace to their shojo counterparts.
Like as someone who gave the A Condition Called Love manga a solid try of a few volumes and admittedly ended up not sticking with it - it amazed me to see how not just viewers, but critics couldn't even entertain the notion that the series was attempting a longer game with a character like Hananoi. Whether the show executed said vision is a completely different point of discussion, but even just going through the ANN seasonal previews said a lot to me. And they employ a diverse group of critics to boot.
But I also think you're completely right about how important it is to have empathy for different viewers' life experiences while still being able to engage with difficult or complex pieces of media. Unfortunately I feel like a lot of this sort of discourse has just resulted in the notion of attacking others personally for enjoying a piece of media with aspects you deem aberrant to be completely acceptable. And as always, girls' media seems to get the brunt of it.
~ETA for grammer
It reminds me of the “boys will be boys” excuse when a little boy is being a menace. Then when a little girl is being a menace, there’s no “girls will be girls.” She’s told to “be more ladylike.”
Guys have free rein to read about a Joe Schmoe being thirsted after by a gaggle of attractive (and usually buxom) women, but god forbid a girl read about a plain Jane getting a cool boyfriend.
This is definitely a topic that gets me heated. In book space within the romance genre it has become popular to say that "Romance isn't romance unless it has a happy ending" which I think is part of this moral panic shenanigans. People have said that they don't want to read books that don't make them feel happy at the end, and that any book that doesn't do this isn't a romance, so all books advertised as romances must be implicitly guaranteeing a happy ending. Therefore, in this mindset, all romances must be endorsing the relationships in their stories, because they all must lead to happy endings. Its super dumb, it hamstrings the genre, and I think it cements opinions people have of the genre. I'm a guy who likes a good romance, but I have been called sexist for having this opinion that romance shouldn't be defined by this, because this is supposedly the genre for women by women and I'm trying to tell women what the genre is.... but like... idk, expect more from your media.
Have you considered that, when people express ideas like that, they're intending to say that the stories you're describing would just be a different genre? Genres are descriptive, not prescriptive. It's shorthand the audience uses to communicate. Much the same way classical literature uses the terms comedy and tragedy to effectively just describe the ending, we too can use terms to mean those things. For me, there's already a large enough overlap between drama and romance that I'd find it weird if you describe an unhappy ending as a romance story when it would definitely fit that drama label too. I do understand where you're coming from, though. It can get frustrating when meaningful discussions get sidetracked by trying to define and redefine what the words we're using actually mean instead of moving along with the actual content of the discussion.
For the record, even a romance with a happy ending does not imply an endorsement for the types of relationships in those stories. That's not how fiction works. A fictional story is a real world with real people that just so happens to not actually exist. It's not weird to talk about fictional couples being a good or bad match for each other, in the same way that it's not weird to suggest a real couple might be a good or bad match for each other. People being together, and having powerful reasons to be together, does not mean they're a good match. And I think that sort of interpretation is a fundamental misunderstanding of how storytelling works in general. They're just people being people. If they're any less than that, your story kinda sucks.
The idea that romance is for women is sexist. By women is also pretty sexist, while we're at it.
Engaging with people who don't recognize that characters with flaws are not endorsed for those flaws by the creators of media is one of the more frustrating aspects of talking to people.
I recommend against it.
As someone grew up with helicopter parenting plus strong moral purity mindset in conservative patriarchal society, I'm seeking fiction works as escapism mostly and sometimes guidelines towards male characters or relationship back in my teenage age, thinking it would work irl or really happened irl thanks to my sheltered upbringing and my inexperience self.
As I grew older I notice how problematic some ML was and no longer regards it as guidebook to rl relationship or seeking romance advice from it. As I mentioned above, growing up sheltered made me feel bored in my mundane life and that makes fantasy or science fiction or mystery or thriller are my most favorite genre in fiction works. I only interested in romance partly as a search for my self identity, as I hardly relate to other people around me feels first romantic love and why not me too, yes I never for once fall seriously in love despite myself loving soap opera and craving romance works back then. That's why I'm used to think there's something wrong with me for incapable to be romantically in love just like my peers and my former biggest pet peeves is "Why you can't find a bf despite being attractive?" Somehow it seemed like a harmless statement but to me it was triggering as I was being bullied for years in my whole elementary school period for being different.
That's why this topic of media literacy is really interesting to me. Tbh I'm used to shame or looking down on people who hate my favorite series, like how they can hate a masterpiece like this? There's must be something wrong with them, etc etc.
However as I grew older and be more mature over time I kinda grew out of it and just being less aggressive on criticism towards series I love, as long as it was logical or constructive criticism. Tbh shojo demographic is too diverse and I found myself liking a series that was hated by majority of people and hating some other well known beloved series with burning passion due to my personal tastes, past trauma, ideology, belief system clearly opposed them.
That's why moral purity mindset that misguiding people by baselessly hating a series as demanding it to be perfect so is triggering to me as it remind me so much of my helicopter parent. Also ignorance remark used as argumentative tool or insult really hurts me as I love to passionately critique some series as I want to learn something from it and reading other people perspective on it is super engaging to me personally. And also the hardcore gatekeep fans who's allergic to any criticism to their favorite series... It really hurts me in a way since it reminds me of my shameful past as a former one so it gave me a second hand embarrassment😂😂
Reading your statement it seemed like you have aroace vibe, nevertheless I agree with most of what you said.
i love guro and horror manga, and analysing what the authors intent was behind cruel and disgusting stories, its so much fun, of course theres always slop that just exists to be an outlet for gore art but even then, i love how they try to push beyond whats accepted in art normally, even when sloppily done its a valuable exploration artistically and mentally
One thing too is that fiction is a safe place that one can stop whenever they want. It can be cathartic, a release of emotion one was holding in in a safe place. For example horror. Generally ppl don't want to be sacred and anxious irl, but horror genre still exists and ppl consume it. Horror is a safe place to experience these emotions in a safe place.
I heard it put this way in another video, if a work has proper content warnings and you still engange you gave informed consent (with all the point before about being able to stop etc as well). Also it talks a bit about something I've been saying for years too how fiction can play RP and non-vanilla relationships "straight" like the fiction itself is the RP. Tho this is usually more for smut and "adult content" worls.
Yes they gave informed consent but they can still give negative feedback.
Half the fun of reading, watching, and/or listening to something is analyzing! My SO and I often engage with each other after consuming media, and its a divine experience.
Love the video! It's incredibly thoughtful and poignant worth current events and media today 🔥💖🔥
this video was the breath of fresh air I needed after so much stupid discourse 😭 it's truly amazing just how ironclad these misogynistic moral panics really are. they will bend in any direction to prove that female readers (and authors) are to blame. on the one hand, if women engage with thought provoking, challenging art that intentionally plays on societal taboos, they're portrayed as either stupid, brainwashed victims of the author's immoral fantasies, OR as too innocent or naive to engage with such "complicated" media (if the people judging it are even willing to give it the benefit of the doubt in the first place). and of course, the media that gets the most backlash and least charitable readings are often media made by women for other women. on the other hand though, this discounting of women's intelligence is thrown in the other direction too. just as women aren't trusted to consume "complicated art," we can't be trusted with trash either! "trashy" romance and erotic lit for women is often thrown under the bus as some unique evil out to corrupt the innocent minds of women, or worse, "groom" them into accepting abuse. besides the obvious fact that abusers are responsible for what they inflict, not their victims, this "distrust" of women's minds when it comes to separating fiction from reality is SO obviously misogynistic. I don't personally care for much of the romance on "book tok" but it seems like every other week some random woman goes viral for just...liking erotica? Some poor woman this past week was put under a microscope by a million armchair psychiatrists who were worried because the erotica she likes has gore in it. as though she's going to run out and reenact the book the second she finishes reading it??? frankly the people I worry about the most are those who are so convinced that all this thinly veiled misogyny is justified, that the morals of society are hanging by a thread and it's about to snap because of whatever the top manhua on Lezhin is that week. women read and write literature! women read and write trash! somehow, they survive without the pages of the books biting back at them! so many young people, especially (sadly) other young women, are falling for this barely concealed social conservatism hook line and sinker. all these shallow critiques about the moral standing of characters or plot lines feel like a sludge that's holding back actual conversations about media literacy. I think that's the most offensive part to me. It's one thing to have a difference of interpretation, but people who engage in bad faith from the outset are clogging up the works
Yea ikr, and yet many people on internet has the audacity to claim that internalized misogyny is not real and just made up terms by women. Not to mention the outrage of "men vs bear" a while ago who strongly hurt the pride of most men on the internet and how many men mocking on how stupid it is to granting women the right to vote recently. It was so maddening and outward scary, I wonder why most men especially on internet really hate or against women that much?
I liked your take on "A Condition Called Love". It's one of the best romance manga I have read and one of the few I like reading again with Kimi Ni Todoke. It's amazing to see the leads grow into such well-developed characters. Unlike other stories, they develop even more after the confession and help each other deal with everything involving the past, present, family, friends, and future.
Upon reading the online discussions and seeing the comments people posted, all I could think of was when everyone became such wimps who couldn't even handle a fictional story and kept bringing their own personal problems into it. Enjoy a story for what it is and not a guideline for one to follow in day-to-day life.
The thing that annoys me the most is when people take the actions of fictional characters and say something like “this is indefensible” or “I can believe people are defending character x, doing what they did is NEVER OK”. I don’t know exactly what it is but it really annoys me when people use judging character actions to like bolster their morality or project that they are moral.
Excellent video. I admit at first I thought Hannanoi was a red flag that some of his behaviour crossed lines and made me uncomfortable. I was concerned for Hotaro. But as the series continued and Hotaro called Hannanoi out when he went too far or was to some degree self destructive and I could see him start to grow with Hotaro and how they actually developed a healthy respectful relationship while making mistakes and helpjng eachother, I ended up really enjoying it. It's actually pretty inspiring that someone with deep seated emotional issues and mental health issues can have a mutual and beneficial role in a romantic relationship, we don't see that often enough in media.
How dare you say we piss on the poor.
I had to put my phone down after I saw multiple people on the Internet claim that Chainsaw Man's Makima fetishises and endorses grooming, as if this character isn't very explicitly the villain of the story.
The reading comprehension devil joke exists for a reason in the csm fandom 💀 a lot of missing the mark happening in there. There's a character in the second part that people hate on. there are context clues suggesting that there's more to them but they just get treated like the second coming of makima even though they're shown to not be very similar to her at all.
It's a byproduct of modern western civilization's attempt to replace traditional methods of self-cultivation and personality development with the consumption of material products.
These days, people by and large believe that what you consume signifies who you are, therefore if you consume media that is declared problematic, then you too are a problematic individual.
This is what we mean when we say there is a lack of media literacy. Many people are simply not capable of separating fact from fiction.
It doesn't matter if there WAS incest or someone ships it. You don't need to explain it away or have some deep reason why it's a special case or Not Endorsing It. (This is spoken generally, not at Colleen.) Parents need to teach their children fact from fiction and keep an ear open for when they read or watch something they don't understand. People need to have more empathy and read a variety of stories to learn and grow themselves.
THIS! Moral purity mindset really is toxic imo, it prevents you to learn and expanding your horizon outside of your own personal bubble.
I feel like the phrase "media literacy" has become very overused on TikTok, just like "intrusive thoughts" and "parasocial" (when they're used in situations they don't apply to or misused)
I'm not sure if there's a word referring to whether people understand what words mean or not, but "literacy" definitely hits very close to the mark.
I'm flash backing to all those terrible articles complaining about Beauty and the Beast having Stockholm syndrome or the Little Mermaid teaching girls to be subservient to men. No, that is not what happened, and people need to stop parroting that shit already. These are family movies, they shouldn't be this hard to get straight.
women morally policing other women gee what's new
It was all over the shoujo subreddit (and low key still is) about red/green flag ML’s. I’ve seen people (not in the shoujo subreddit) say that “green flag” ML’s are problematic because they “give girls unrealistic standards.”
@@WoodwindBuddies I saw someone IN the shoujo subreddit say that too 😭
This was a wonderful and well needed video!!! Also that intro skit was so funny omg, these skits just keep getting better and better.
Fantastic video! I think it’s very important to think “What is this creator trying to say here?” when it comes to the media they consume, especially when it broaches darker or more complex topics. I’m only six volumes into Ceres and although it’s not perfect it’s abundantly clear that Watase is portraying the subject in a disturbing light
I roll with Hananoi's weirdness now but as someone who was on the "this dude is a bunch of red flags in a trench coat" train at the beginning of the manga series and only pushed through their aversion because of your recommendation I think it's important to clarify that irl this behavior is not okay to tolerate and anecdotally anyone I know who ever acted like Hananoi did in the beginning of the series in real life were the type of people to pull su*c*de threats when you say you'll leave them so to me his early actions and the lack of a proportional reaction by the mc (in my opinion she could've pushed back a lot more) were unsettling. If I had to be introspective this is probably also because as someone with BPD I know what it's like to hurt those you love by your own extreme actions of self sacrifice and attachment, so I knew what I was mentally looking at very intimately.
I totally experience what you are discussing too though, there is a comeback to the idea that Fiction for women is "dangerous" when it depicts not morally pristine characters and in manga genres like shoujo and BL there is a lot of disproportionate pushback to stories that don't function like an afterschool special but trust their audience to judge for themselves or, god forbid, are morally nebulous because well sometimes people like indulging in fiction in that kinda shit because well they can't really in real life.
I mean many teen girls shipped Hikaru and Kaoru unironically and did not engage with the material as critically as maybe the author wanted, yet it still was a deconstruction of fanfiction tropes and I can personally remember my own fantasies getting shifted as it became clear their act was just an "act" and that in actuality they were very different people than that twincest stereotype. An author can't control their audience, and as we are always developing as people there's never an end to learning when consuming art and fiction, and unsanitary interactions with pieces of art are. . fine. I mean I read Kyou, Koi and Kare Kano as a teen girl, which romanticized all kinds of misogynistic tropes, and I'd say they were as much of a detriment to my girlhood upbringing as anything else that upheld those toxic ideas about relationships in my life. We are all social byproducts and we will hurt and get hurt and to an extent that's all there is to it.
I really like being critical about things I read but when I'm critical of something it's usually because I *care* about it, whether a work itself or a genre or a whatever, and it feels like these types of criticisms are more about boasting one's self image through moral posturing and throwing disdain at stuff than anything else. In a bizarre way as you mentioned, it gives hardcove "christian" vibes.
16:39 I was late to the game in finishing OHSHC but in the anime too it’s very clear they’re playing into the twincest trope for their clients
The girls who see them are into incest **and** they fetishize twins and gay men so the twins play into it for their own gain/benefit/profit
Really great video! As someone utterly in love with the anime (after your recommendation) but who isnt online very often this video was really shocking! A discourse i didnt even know was happening about one of my favourite animes, i really feel like that community gif of bringing pizza into a burning apartment 😭
Also, I'm almost 100% sure you've gotten the opposite of this comment before, but I appreciate the more political aspects you've been putting in your videos! I'm not expecting you to become an online news anchor, but I really think being able to talk about how politics affects even somewhat niche hobbies and interests like manga adds a lot of beneficial depth to the conversation!
I have definitely gotten the opposite comment on this very video even so thank you so much for encouraging me!!
Well said! Great and thoughtful video and I like how you addressed how everyone’s life experiences will impact their reading preferences differently. Some people just want an escape; others may be trying to explore or even cope with complex topics.
Both yourself and contra points releasing videos on this topic in a single year is divine. Thank you for putting this together and I think that this topic is very necessary
i'm someone who enjoys reading things that are meant to make you uncomfortable, and i'm so tired of having to defend myself when it comes to these things because of the moral purity wave and everything in fiction being deemed as "problematic" if the author isn't straight up like "this is a bad guy! this is a bad thing to do!" i like this character because they are interesting and complex, not because i approve of their actions.
Returning to this video after seeing the "a condition called love" anime and binging the manga and Hananoi is such a compelling character and the story has so many important things to say through him (you nail it with your commentary!) that it honestly boggles my mind to hear that the reception is what it is like i don't even want to know more. Thinking about people not getting it is already a bit irritating and I'm glad i don't have many social media accounts. I'll just love this series in peace but my heart goes out to all of you who do have to deal with it.
EDIT: it's also interesting seeing translations of the mangaka's intentions because it really comes through in the story and characters.
I don't usually comment, but I had to for this video. it was amazing. you articulated thoughts that I think many had been thinking for a long while around this conversation. I hope this video encourages people to learn and discuss media better.
Thanks for this amaizng video
There are things that are really problematic and that sometimes reflect the author's own prejudice, but most of the time they are not in the superficial layer and that is precisely the problem that looking only at this layer causes. Often, as you said, it falls into a Christian purism that in the end only harms the discussion or further stigmatizes those who are already stigmatized. I have my issues with Ouran, especially with how lesbians are portrayed, but I understand that's just my issue. In the end, as Suoh would say in Flowers. Father and Son. Not a woman included
Great video! The funny part about long isekai titles and "knowing if it is worth your time": When the title is really long, it almost never is worth your time :D
This was a really wonderful video, I like how you described how media works and how everyone’s perspective and what they want from what they’re consuming influences their intake of media. I also really adore how you describe what media literacy is and how it’s important to be able to understand the author’s intentions and think about why or how taboo topics are used to communicate it’s themes or message. I’m having trouble articulating everything I loved about the video but I thought it was really great, thank you!
Excellent work! You did a great job of explaining how people can watch a 'problematic' show and separate the actions of fictional characters from real-world endorsement. A Condition Called Love really grabbed my interest with Hananoi's insecurities. He isn't a fairytale prince... he's got some depth to him, and it's not pretty. Very cool!
INSANELY well structured video with beautiful editing. Wonderful work Colleen.
One thing I always think about when it comes to media literacy is intention. Whether it’s advertising, articles, tweets, books or shows there’s always an intention by the author and the intend audience is the target of that product and messaging. It’s always imperative to be aware of this, because the narrative is shaped to engage with you.
I love your videos and recs so much
As always, great work, listening to your reasonings is just pure bliss 🤩🌟
the bit in the beginning being ironic is my absolute favorite thing about this video. i subbed RIGHT out the gate lol. you are so funny!
I really loved this whole piece and it reminds me to keep myself in check to make sure I'm not discrediting something at face value. So many lessons I learned as a teen and young adult came directly from manga and anime. While there are some that did not have great elements of their plot (I'm looking at you Vampire Knight), so many complex stories I read made me a better person that I am today.
It would be boring to only partake in stories that had no development or only gave you insta-satisfaction.
Just thinking about how important it is for young people (especially girls and fem presenting people who are most affected as you describe) to be exposed to this and learn about this at the ages that shoujo especially targets.
The lack of media literacy makes me scared of Red River’s re-release. I can already imagine how many people aren’t going to engage critically with it and will post about how awful it is (even though it’s an absolutely amazing series).
TBH while I did enjoy Red River when I read it for the first time a few years ago now, I understand those that probably won't. It's definitely.... Of the time as it were lol
Red River is a classic but it’s like how old James Bond movies are classics but have MANY issues. It’s not “moralizing” or “hating” to admit what the culture tolerated at the time of production and how that’s reflected in what ended up in the series. Just as an example to anti-intellectualism masquerading as a flattened version of “media literacy” some folks were wildly pissed when an anime reviewer for their job watched a girl and her guard dog and joked about the janky animation and the weird romantic projection of a 20 something onto an elementary to middle school aged character. One can admit “it’s a fantasy” on top of acknowledging how media both reflects and contributes to the culture.
@@ladygrey4113 I definitely agree. It’s of it’s time and has issues, but I think that’s what fun about media literacy - we can acknowledge flaws and engage critically without immediately writing a work off completely. Plenty of anime/manga, as well as films (like your example of James Bond), books, etc can be good works, sometimes even great works, and still under a modern lense have less than ideal elements. The importance of media literacy comes in when we’re able to step back and say “what doesn’t work about this now and WHY doesn’t it work.” I think Red River and other classic manga fall under the many of the things Colleen discussed in the video.
This is exactly the kind of analysis I do when consuming media, sometimes without even trying. Even when I'm "turning my brain off" and relaxing after a long day. Even when I was a little kid learning what things like subtext and foreshadowing are, I was fascinated by it. It's super weird to me that there are people who don't do this at all. They might as well be literally judging a book by its cover, and in some cases, may actually be doing that.
Fantastic video, I really needed this. It helps elaborating my thoughts on this topic that affects me in so many different ways, especially cancel culture in the last years.
This was probably my favorite opening skit from you XD
That funeral home has a sick manga shelf!
I think the term romanticization has been so watered down. At this point, I can't even tell what it means. Not to say there aren't any examples of romanticization, something like "My little sister can't be this cute" or "Wataten" comes to mind, but people just say everything is romanticized. Like Euphoria or Hazbin, even if they aren't written the best that doesn't mean anything they depict is supposed to be seen as good.
Thank you, we needed a video like this
Its almost a little funny how people will always take ablism in stories seriously up until the point where a character shows symptoms of borderline personality disorder
Then theyre just toxic and irridemable and no you should neeeeever look deeper into it theyre just born bad!
Like
??????
Personality disorders are extremely difficult to manage externally, and having a personality disorder does not justify or excuse the actions of the person who has the disorder, it just creates room for empathetic understanding.
I once dated someone who had pretty extreme BPD who I can safely say was an absolute monster and terrible human being, not because of the condition, but because of how she treated me and other people around her even if I could understand where it came from.
This problem makes it impossible to be in fandom spaces. Especially any where its maturish content but young people flock to it. Oh my god its bad
People conflate morals with the fictional romance you enjoy and think fiction = real life. People with mature literacy know that is not the case for fictional romances.
Im honestly done with these kind of people. They have ruined fan spaces and I have seen them bully other teens to s*icide, out a gay man on twitter with his real name when being gay is illegal in his country all because of “problematic ships and art of ships” this has gotten ridiculous.
A splendid video, thank you. I added "A Condition called Love" into my reading list thanks to your recommendation earlier, but never actually got to it. My first exposure to the story was the anime, and, judging by a huge disparity between the anime and manga scores on MAL, you can clearly see that many people took it exactly as you've said. Personally, i admit, i also found Hananoi creepy, but that was exactly the point -- his actions are clearly meant to be portrayed as unhealthy. I did drop the show after the first episode, but not because of him or so-called glorification of a toxic relationship. I just decided that i'm not in the mood for watching both protagonists dance through their trauma conga line.
On that note, i have a strange, but similar example. Keijo (2016) is often disregarded as one of the dumbest, filthiest ecchi anime of all time. No thoughts, head empty, only boobs and butts in swimsuits. What many people are unwillingly ignoring is the fact that the series is a stellar parody of sports stories, peppered with absurd references to many popular works, from Naruto to Fate. It's not only well drawn, but also hilariously well animated for a show, where girls shove other girls out of a ring with their "assets". Keijo literally pushes the concept of a sports anime to its limit, much in the same way as Prince of Tennis or Blue Lock does. The only difference is self-awareness and a raunchy sense of humor.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. My favorite romance manga is probably "Wake Up, Sleeping Beauty".
I've seen youtubers make videos calling people media illiterate and use Made in Abyss as an example [Spoilers] saying that viewers don't want to see kids in bad situations. But that wasn't the critique. The criticism from viewers was unecessary use of certain imagery in the manga that was omitted in the anime; and made no difference to the anime. I thought maybe the scene would be about how children in care homes could be abused, and later we'd see the damage to their psyche. On top of being orphans and being seen as disposable to society.
TLDR; people using media literacy as a shield for when people are genuinly critiquing parts of media.
Exactly, even friends I have who like MIA feel they can’t recommend it because the longer the manga continues the more confident (their words) the author gets he can put his not even barely concealed fetishes in
@@ladygrey4113 So the mangaka hasn't stopped his creepy panels? Damn shame cause it's so not needed.
Sad that your friends like the manga but don't want to have the mangaka think they agree with fetishy stuff. That should be him thinking that.
maybe MIA is problematic, but people are out there acting like if you recommend it and have positive things to say about it, you're a BAD PERSON. IIRC some Kpop boy was absolutely hounded after saying positive things about MIA. whatever your opinions on these works, that shit is VILE. and it's just de rigeur now! it's not even considered immoral when it in fact is a complete misuse of public shame largely to satisfy sadism.
MIA mangaka once did a house tour and busts of little girls chests were in his house. The video went up but was privated. You can Google the images.
People also abuse the word “prude”. Like you can say “this scene was bad, why is it here?” but you’re a Christian Fascist if you say “this fetish scene was bad, why is it here?”
What i really dislike about A Condition called love is how their relationship went from inexistent to partners all of a sudden, because for me the road to a relationship is the cathartic experience, i am a Adult who never learned how to be an adult in that manner, i can't understand how easy is for people to get into relationships, how people flirt with each other like if it was nothing, of course its my mistake to take media as a tutorial, but shoujo i am a way its the closest "non political" way of learning about relationships and since i never had a relationship and i feel that i am deeply flawed because of this, i dont know how to build a relationship that can evolve into a romantic relationship and romance shoujo kinda shows this path but upon seeing Hananoi and Hotaru just engaging on a relationship like if it was nothintg felt like a punch in my stomach.
That being said, yes i do consider romance stories to be the closest "tutorial" to a relationship, of course not all of them can be seem as tutorial because obviously some relationships are toxic and dangerous, relationships that shouldnt be followed or taken as a good example anyway like kidnap and such, it works as a fantasy but not as a real "how to".
The thing is that people nowadays are the least understanding of each other, intolerance dominates even spaces that promote themselves as being inclusive, people adopetd this intolerant way of thinking that doesnt require any critical thinking why someone might enjoy something they dont like, they settle that X is bad and Z is good, if anyone enjoys watching, reading, listening or playing X then they are bad people, if anyone enjoys Z then they are allowed to wander in their communities, nowadays there seems to have no room for understanding each other, people more often than not say that they "dont have time to spend thinking about other people, these people that need to fix themselves, not me" which is a really intolerant behavior to only accept a view that aligns with their own and only lead to more hatred and unacceptance as a whole.
like you said, people are so addicted to instant gratification that when something or someone doesnt instantly satisfies them then they already deem it as unacceptable and bad for the general population, i must admiot it i did the same thing to A Condition called love, i started watching it and saw a "bit" of myself onto Hananoi and when he started to act weird than i just panicked and deemed it "trash" to fit into what my goal is for me to be a good partner, i guess looking at the mirror can be scary sometimes.
I will give the show a second chance soon as i can, if i like it i will read the manga.
This was a great video essay and I loved the comedy bit at the start. I agree with everything here and want to say I really enjoy your subject dives. Thank you Colleen!
We need to be able to see reality reflected back to us through stories so we can learn about other perspectives. I can't overstate how valuable an experience that is.
Stuffing stories into the same cookie cutter for a small sect of humanity's sensibilities is intentionally designed to hurt everyone and is just a way to push society toward their own ideology. Just because you're at a buffet and there are things you don't like to eat doesn't mean you should crusade to get all the things you don't like removed so no one can enjoy them. How selfish. this was a really great watch and an important subject.
I also like to critically engage with what I watch and read, and my partner and I will have entire discussions for hours around what we've consumed. I've been shocked by some people I've known who just don't seem to do that, and are confused about why or how we would discuss things about a movie, show or book. Now I have some language to understand that difference. :3
I giggled when you played soad's toxicity for that 2 seconds
Great video!
love this video so much!
i used to be on tumblr back when shipping wars were still a hot topic. i ultimately ended up siding with the ‘antis’ because of all the people on the pro side that i saw actively promoting incriminating acts by writing them in a positive light. (it’s the internet. *tumblr*. idrk what i was expecting.) i was stuck in a rabbit hole that made me think all ‘dark’ media was pro-whatever it featured.
thankfully with time i expanded my horizons and viewpoints and i recognize how these things are used for authors to prove a point they otherwise feel they couldn’t have. in fact, nabokov’s lolita is one of my favorite books that i love to read over and over. i honestly don’t get upset when people ask me why because i love talking about the complexities of the novel. physical, disturbed reactions are what really makes people stand up and take action (or at least begin to question their original thought process) and that is invaluable.
it’s really upsetting that now the instinct is not to get up and do something about this thing that enraged us, but instead cut it off and start pointing fingers. to me, it’s like getting upset with a news reporter for informing me on an upsetting event that happened in my area. it just doesn’t make sense.
i’m also really pissed off by how anime studios 99% of the time end up doing shoujo manga adaptations dirty :P i’ve been reading hananoi for years now and i couldn’t even finish watching the first episode because of how many important details they skipped out on
So is the anime just a bad adaptation of the source material? The way she described the story didn't match what I saw in the anime at all, really.
I feel a similar way about what the internet did to Killing/Stalking.
It’s a very violent thriller centered around homophobia and how South Korea mistreats male survivors of domestic and sexual abuse, but a lot of people wanted the two man characters to have a happy ending so badly that they missed the point of what the author was trying to talk about 😅
Brilliant - thank you for having some sense.
Okay, I loved this video. Just YES, it was a very thoughtful take on a fairly complex and polarizing (and buzzworded) topic.
Excellent essay Collen! I agree with your thesis. Critical thinking isn't anathema to enjoying the story. I might write an essay about it myself...
Feels like "media literacy" just a fancy pseudo-academic way to pretend the "death of the author" concept doesn't exist. People drawing different conclusions from art has been normal for generations.
Your video made me wonder if the arc in volume 7 was the manga artist responding to folks who thought Hotaru was "clueless". You cannot read that volume and pretend that Hotaru doesn't see his flaws and has decided to work through them with Hananoi.
Volume 7 is a PIVOTAL moment in the series imo. Both of them are faced with his past mistakes and bad actions and both of them decide they won't shy away from it but face it head on. I also just like that hotaru didn't invalidate the exes feelings in that volume either.
I watched A Condition Called Love because of this channel, and I’m so glad I did! It’s annoying to see so many people misunderstand what it’s trying to say, it has some great messages
There's a fine line between critiquing how a controversial subject is handled and having the controversial subject at all. If something isn't handled in a way you like or it's just too much for you, you're definitely allowed to voice your issues with it! But I don't like how the internet has created shame around liking that media, especially because the most often dog piled media is the ones written by and for marginalized identities.
I don't want to be the one defending how Hikaru and Kaoru deliberately fetishize their relationship as a gag when I'm literally a twin and it makes me cringe. 😭 Like i shouldn't have to explain something is obviously cringey on purpose then feel accused of supporting something I would rather jump off a cliff over.
Agreed. I'm also not a huge fan of the joke (nor do I think I ever laughed at it??), but I get why it's a thing and don't think it actually means the two are in love or anything.
Yeah I feel like this is why queer works are put under so much scrutiny. People want more stories with queer rep but there is so much policing over the "correct" way to represent queer people in fiction it can get frustrating. And like you said, obviously people should feel comfortable voicing issues with how controversial subjects are handled. But often it leads to shaming people who may enjoy that content or harassing people who enjoy that content under a critical lens. I start disengaging once it gets into personal attacks because of media you enjoy.
If it’s something like Shield hero or Rent a girlfriend or someone who likes the entirety of Domestic Girlfriend (including the lead getting with the woman who groomed him after she becomes comatose) I think it’s perfectly reasonable to question why someone likes it. I’ll shame anyone who tells me shield hero is an excellent piece of media
@@ladygrey4113 true, I think the intentions behind consuming certain media matters. Like if you enjoy an anime/manga because of how it deconstructs gender and sexuality then yeah, I get it! But if you like it because you wanna see female characters be sexualized and treated like possessions, then there’s a problem here.
@@ladygrey4113If it's something like Domestic Girlfriend or Rent a Girlfriend idk about the reasonability to question why someone likes it ngl, some of these are fairly just fun and goofy - despite, or because of the fairly morally disturbing subject matter, it's the same reason why I, my friends, and Sugita Tomokazu like Diabolik Lovers. It's fun and dumb and a lot of these are fetish-inspired soap operatic comedies. I think it's more productive as looking at these media as psychological manifestations of people's interests than a literal endorsement of said fetishes.
I say this because not all the reasons people like "problematic media" needs to come under negative scrutiny, it is fine to criticise or analyse these problematic elements, but scrutiny can often lead to policing very very very easily.
I recall a conversation my friend was having with another person about the yuri manga Citrus, and this person condemned the noncon and incestuous aspects of the manga and was basically saying it is terrible *because* of those aspects, my friend said she had heard it was an alright manga from other lesbians to which this person said "You haven't been talking to the right lesbians." It is the moral purity thing all over again. You see why these sort of sentiments are dangerous?
Me when Colleen uploads a new video 🤵🏽♂️Let’s gooo new video!
I solely watch Colleen for the skits, theyre top notch
There is a big difference between knocking someone for liking something that you don't and not seeing the green light for rape in "the tooth fairy" when one character says they don't like hugs and the other character says "yes you do."
Excelent video! Profound and really interesting topic here. I honestly would like to hear your opinion on Mushoku Tensei and Nii-Chan (By harada) tho.
Calling Hananoi as toxic or red flag is crazy hilarious😂🤣 well they won't think the same way after reading Hana Yori Dango or most manhwa with problematic black haired red flag character as ML. Reading those works will certainly make Hananoi the tamest and best ML to compare to😂 (looking at you Cry Or Better Yet, Beg)
I almost typed out a whole opinion about my experience with women's expectations around influence in romance but I caught myself. Your channel is cool, take a comment for the algorithm, godspeed.