"Not Like Other Shoujo"
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- "These aren't like other shoujo, these are cooooool shoujo" and the myth of competitive femininity.
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Maia C
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0:00 Intro
1:18 The Phrase "Not Like Other Girls"
1:57 Being "The Other Girl"
3:37 How Girls are Seen in Society
4:53 Distancing from Femininity
5:35 GeT tO tHe PoInT
6:06 How Feminine Media is Viewed
8:05 The Treatment of Shoujo Protagonists
9:25 The "Typical Shoujo"
10:39 Not Like Other Shoujo
13:17 Banana Fish IS Shoujo
14:29 Othering Feminine Media
15:48 A Double Standard
16:50 There's Nothing Wrong with the "Typical"
18:28 Closing - Розваги
can you please not use terms "afab" and "girl" interchangeably? not every afab person is a girl or in a fem spectrum
thank you
I don't believe I did? I have a copy editor who looks this over and I doubt they would let that slide. I'll keep it in mind for the future though obviously.
EDIT: through discussion with someone else I will probably go forward without using the terms afab or amab in general. For this video I think the issue is that I was trying to discuss the experience of growing up as a girl and/or being a girl which is where the conflation arose by accident. I apologize that it came off that way because I truly didn't mean it interchangeably. I'll be pinning your comment for my response just in case anyone else had this same issue.
EDIT 2: I am going to try my best to monitor the replies on the pinned comment, but please be civil and respectful of the OP's concerns.
@@Testimony_Of_JTF They are not the same words. I grew up AFAB but I am non-binary so therefore I am not a girl.
@@Testimony_Of_JTF They literally aren't. I'm afab and I'm trans masc.
Not sure if you still want comments about it, since it seems like the issue has been addressed {feel free to delete if you want to keep the thread clear}, but
I thought how Colleen used afab and girl/[femme epithets] made sense in the context.
They were discussing societal expectations of femininity on people. And if someone is afab, whether they later determine themself trans or cis, they're met with an expectation throughout their life that they need to present in a feminine way. Even if parents try to raise kids as gender neutrally or fluid as they can, there are still grandparents who buy the afab child dresses, teachers who give them pink stickers, etc.
As society is now, if someone is trans, they have to go against the societal grain to (1) discover that about themself & (2) make an active choice to pursue affirming that discovered identity.
So I think in this case, especially since it deals with a demographic of teen (+/-) girls, it makes sense to group the experience of expectations, since they're imposed on everyone afab, regardless of how they may diverge from that later.
But, I'm only about 2/3 through the video, so maybe it's used differently near the end.
Also, I'm a cis millennial, so I can only speak so far on the topic and how it looks for kids right now. Knowing some FtM trans people though, I know our childhoods and teen years were met with many of the same pressures (and "alternative" (punk/goth/ etc.) pulls away from conformity), even if they felt differently about those influences than I did as cis.
Edit: got to the conclusion and I see what you mean.
I think it was nice that Colleen saw the comment and is keeping it in mind for future videos though. Either way, it's nice when creators take viewer feedback to heart.
Oh shut up it's not that deep do something else instead of being so Godsdamn much offended.
Sailor Moon is the girliest, sparkliest thing ever, full of romance and a “typical shojo” lead. It’s also a story about lunar powered superbeings who punch Lovecraftian horrors in the face, in the most gloriously girly way possible.
That's why for me it's awesome. Like my whole childhood
If I remember corrrectly Sailor Moon also has a decently sized male fanbase which is pleasantly surprising
top tier action anime, 100/10 epic
Not everyone that fights the bad guys needs to have a bedhair 24/7 and stink like a used cat litter.
its like lolipop chainsaw but manga
I'm just surprised that magical girl anime and manga aren't considered Shoujo by the vast majority of people and Shoujo had become synonymous with nothing but romance.
I don't like the romance genre, I only tolerate them as elements in a greater story. But shows that depict the female experience, Princess Tutu, Magical Lyrical Nonoha, Magic Knight Rayearth, Sailor Moon, and even effing Kill La Kill, I would happily classify as for the Shoujo demographic.
The problem goes too ways. The 'male approved' Shoujo works are still Shoujo works and should be treated as such. Why are they treated as different from 'typical Shoujo'?
If Shounen can have a range of genres, why can't 'Shoujo'?
Trapped in a pizza costume deserves it's own manga genre
I agree
If we can have a dang manga about being a vending machine liking a human girl
Then by golly stuck in a pizza costume genre would be kind of hilarious
Help! I'm trapped in a cursed Pizza Costume and the world is gunna end!
Tensei pizza.
OMG YES!!!
I always love when people realize that Junji Ito makes shoujo manga.
For them shonen can be about sports, adventure, action scenes, desperate fights but shoujo is only about love and totally not creepy horror stories.
A targeted audience is not a specific genre...
This is why I love Tohru Honda so much. I’ve seen so many people (mostly men) who “watched” Fruits Basket label her a crybaby and a doormat, but it’s inspiring to watch her keep her softness and femininity throughout this anime. So many of her struggles resonated with me in high school. She’s feminine and she’s loving and she’s kind, and that’s her strength. It’s not physical, it’s emotional. I think that’s why Fruits Basket resonates with so many people to this day.
SHE single handle end the genarational trauma of a whole broken family and she is seem as weak? Jesus !!!!! She is SO resilient + she is just using a facade cuz she is SO scared of being left behind
I don't understand how anyone can label tohru a crybaby, she was a homeless high schooler literally lost all of her family i think you're allowed to be a little teary every now and then lol
@@sournectarine8343 Yes. I’ve seen people say she cries over dumb things but she’s worrying about income, her life after high school, grieving for her mom and falling for a boy who constantly pushes her away.
@@AyAReI00 I know, right? Shonen bros are so dumb sometimes 🙄. The entire message of Fruits Basket revolves around emotional resilience and strength through feelings and mentality. But of course that went over their heads because they only care about physical power-ups and fights.
im not a fan of most shoujo protags (i just like more funny ones like kyoko from skip beat!) but tohru is my absolute favorite "classically" shoujo protag. she is so sweet and deserves everything nice fr 😭😭 ill fight anyone for her!! ive heard people say she 'doesnt have a personality' and god that is so far from the truth
Every time I hear someone said "it's not shoujo because it's dark, full of violence and edgy" I died on the inside. The fact that BL that's famous full of nasty and messed up themes are targeted towards woman speaks on itself.
Futaba's character in Ao Haru Ride was basically "I'm not like other girls" until she learned to be true to herself.
I really liked the story when I was reading it as a teen. Been a few years but I still think back about how it tackled internalized misogyny in such a realistic way. After futaba was met with all this misogynistic shit she turned into this very not like other girls person, till she started to be true to herself again. ✨
I also can't help but notice that the shonen that also have big female audiences like my hero academia or jujutsu kaisen are often made fun of or looked down upon because the fanbases are "cringy".
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed. This should definitely be talked about more, because I’ve been noticing it more and more in recent years with both those fandoms, being two of the most popular shonen series.
People just love hating on things that women and teenage girls love. Alot of things used to be "manly" things, but when women started doing it, it suddenly becomes weak, inferior and cringe.
misogyny at its finest, making fun of anything women like. i also notice that feminine attributes are looked down upon and masculine attributes are viewed as superior
Tbf my hero academia is not the best example as this story lacks a bit writing wise. Also the shipping is most of what the fandom consists of. And the female characters are written badly.
However I agree with the general sentiment. When women like something it’s immediately getting way more hate and invalid/unreasonable hatred, or the fandom is deemed cringe. Or ppl are less likely to start it and when they like it it’s like damn i didn’t know it’s good. Like F off! You have that with Haikyuu. I didn’t know that was a problem with JJK as well. Sorry not sorry that this is one of the less shounen that actually has decent female characters as well as it is just good in general. Of course we will like it.
Nah cuz fr!
Been in the fandom for a good while and BRO the amount of misogyny and homophobia IS INSAN,
A woman or lgbt+q person could literally just breathe there and you’d get jumped so bad you go private.
People would make excuses like “of the fans are cringe” or “oh the shippers ruined the show” wen literally all of these are what you will experience in EVERY fandom EVER! (Been in too many trust me I’d know)
Not to mention the Japanese fandom is literally the same as the Westrin fandom with ships and all😭
So it’s just pure homophobic and misogynistic men that ruin the fandom otherwise the people i meet are all so nice🤷
Ironically, I've always had high expectations for shoujo compared to shonen. Growing up consuming both shonen and shoujo, I noticed shoujo comparitively had better internal conflicts and character dynamics that appealed to me more, whereas shonen always left me feeling disappointed. This wasn't 100% of the time but nowadays if I hear an anime is shonen, I'm more hesitant to watch it (probably because its more likely to have rampant misogyny and "funny pervert" tropes)
Yes! Same here, I prefer shoujo because when I wach shonen I feel somethings is off and I´m uncomfortable, not always but too often, also usually aren´t that deep in my opinion. But I wish there were more action in shojo.
Shonen has gotta be different or unique for me to want to watch it, ie not plain action shonen. However, I find seinen has a lot of quality works too, along with shojo and josei of course.
Yes, I'm sometimes terrified of shounen, because of the sexual harassment as a joke or sexualisation of girls all the time (even kids lol).
Yeah, I read and watch a lot of shounen, but my goodness do I try and then discard at least a good 60% of it before I find something that is more than just lowest-common-denominator tropes and creepy female objectification couched as nudge nudge treats for the boys.
The difference between me (and probably a lot of people like me who read across the spectrum of demographics) vs a lot of shoujo disdainers is that I don't judge the entire range of works for a demographic spanning multiple decades (and the diverse people who read them) from a mere handful of things that happened to not suit my taste.
Yeah I don’t like the perverts either. The blonde guy from girls bravo and the girl from Komi can’t communicate are ones I dislike the most.
As a straight cis man who is a big fan of shojo and generally girly stuff i noticed something interesting. Whenever I talk about my more feminine interests people suspect 1 of 2 things.either
1. I am secretly homosexual or just have not figured it out yet (perhaps but for me in particular i can say with some certainty that me being straight is pretty set in stone as of now)
Or
2. That im doing it for attention. aka im "not like the other boys" and specifically that im acting "acting gay" to get girls attention. This is the conclusion that most straight guys reacb while the former is by everyone else.
This shows to me that even as a guy acting outside a gender norm is usually associated with an ulterior motive,as a means to an end rather than as a form of self expression.
Although for guys there isnt much of the "being a manly man makes you less of a man" debate since its generally accepted at least among straight dudes that being a masculine dude is the norm and has nothing wrong with it and yet being a more feminine man is seen as devious or as a trick and isnt actually indicative of who you are. Again this also kinda applies for the first conclusion assuming i do not know parts of my sexuality but it holds much stronger for conclusion 2
If you read this far then thanks and i hope you can express yourself in a way that makes you feel happy without anyone suspecting otherwise ❤.
It's true, though of course the fact that some guys do take advantage doesn't help. Some girls think that I'm tryna "rizz" them up because I like Nana and that's not "an anime for DUDES", and many boys pretend to like it or watch it just to get with girls.
But nooo, I just like Nana and Fruits Basket and Ouran and Lovely Complex etc etc and I like talking about them!! But I'm a straight cis guy, and apparently that and liking shojo/josei is impossible for some people :/
@@katharsis101-idk why ppl r like that. But it's nice to see men who r also into shojo
Dudes who openly like shoujo have my instant respect, like, that’s cool as hell man, I’d totally date a guy who’ll listen to the Kamisama Kiss op with me.
I'll never forget the disappointment I felt when I saw the film "In and Out," and at the end it turned out that yes, he was gay after all. I was young then and, in hindsight, I can appreciate why a lot of people loved the visibility of a gay man going from self-denial to self-acceptance. At the time, though, I was really wanting to see him stand proud as a straight cis guy who loved things like musical theatre. We still have so far to go as a society when it comes to these frustrating gender stereotypes.
I'm a dude who's queer and into shoujo and still get surprised looks because I "don't look like that kind of guy". By which they mean that I'm not feminine enough, I guess, to read feminine manga. I don't meet their expectations of what a queer man should be like, because I don't dress/look the part. It is baffling how people struggle to grasp the idea that shoujo can be for anyone, and that maybe I just like a good story. That said, I think you get worse reactions than I do, since no one's accused me of trying to be Not Like Other Guys.
Another banger of a video!
What's funny is that you mention that Kimi no Todoke, Lovesick Ellie and Honey Lemon Soda fit what is the commonly perceived viewpoint of a typical shoujo, yet even those manga are called "not like other shoujo" in reviews. The most seeming typical shoujo are "not like other shoujo" because they're *gasp* "actually good"?? It's so tone-deaf that it wraps around to being hilarious.
I also think that feminine works have a weird expectation to be representative of their whole gender, which reflects in their reaction to "bad" shoujo. People watch Diabolik Lovers and act like it's shoujo in its purest form even those its shounen equivalent is just any trashy ecchi dating sim adaptation.
I remember going through my middle school NLOG phase, and that was when I thought the ONLY good shoujos featured female leads who were action girls like Yona and/or girl bosses (if they weren’t physically strong) like Shirayuki (love both series and girls btw). Anything less, and they were basically Bella Swan (love the mid 2010’s). Now I’ve come around and realized that the journey they go on is more important than just being strong/independent/super smart (as long as they’re competent in other stuff)/snarky.
Side note: I also find it crazy how two shoujo animes featuring red haired girls in fantasy settings who get a life changing haircut and leave their homes came out so close to each other.
This is a video that the anime community needed. Thank you! 💖
The times I heard that "yona" is not the typical shoujo...
Having a Shoujo review channel, I can say I had every one of those comments. From "it's not your typical shoujo", to "it's too deep" or "it's too complex" to be a shoujo. (This especially for Utena)
Another thing to add is the recurring comment of: "Now that they made this shoujo (from their point of view: inferior), make this Shonen/Seinen (generally Evangelion). As if shoujo were a lower category, a test to pass for being able to perform other (higher) genres.
I also understand the "it's not like other shoujo" stance in order to hook people who MOST PROBABLY would reject the idea of watching a series made by a woman. It's a complex topic and I loved how you approached it.
Thanks for your videos. It's very nice that there is love for Shoujo/Josei all over the world. Greetings from Argentina 💞
OMG RAYO CONFUSO LOS ADORO MUCHO NO ME ESPERABA VERLOS ACA BKFHGJFHGFH 💖💖💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕
Is this my Endgame? See you comment here guys felt like that. Love Coleen and rasho.
"would reject the idea of watching a series made by a woman"
FMA is made by a woman and it's one of the most popular series in the world.
@@eri_noemi1462 and most men don't know that, or use that to be misoginistic about Shojo
@@eri_noemi1462 one of the biggest comics review channels' host recently talked about FMA being one of his favourite manga of all time and that he didn't know until a week earlier that Hiromu Arakawa is a woman. Many manga artists aren't very public people, so for many their gender isn't known.
If it has a male mc then immediately some ppl are not even going to see it as a shoujo at all. I've had to explain why Natsume Yuujinchou is a shoujo only to be hit with the "its not like a typical shoujo" even if i said shoujo isnt just slice of life romance.
also cant forget about the classic "it doesnt look like shoujo"
It’s also sad when shounen romance gets mistaken for shojo. Like no My dress up Darling although nice is definitely not shojo
@@ruriva4931the sad thing is I watched a few videos a while ago about the decrease of shoujo anime and people recommended Toilet bound haniko-san, My Dress Up Darling, Horimia and Kakegurui Love is War.
It was so sad seeing people talking about how shoujo romance are less popular only for people to recommended what they thought was shoujo.
@@sugarzblossom8168 agreed though imho Toilet bound hanako-kun is falsely labeled as shounen. Hanako-kun is the epitome cheeky dream boy equivalent to girls like Nagatoro-san and Takagi-san. There's also bl vibes going on with the side characters, which is another genre most popular among girls. So just looking at the characters and how they're portrayed, it feels more geared toward girls
@@candychip2557maybe it's because it doesn't lean too much into romance with the main characters and has a more unusual tone.
I know this channel says don't judge shoujo but with what shoujo I have seen, if it is shoujo it is extremely unique in the tone.
I like a lot of traditionally "feminine" things. Anything cutesy, swishy dresses, pastel colors (yes, including GASP pink), fashion, and mushy romances. That doesn't make me any less of a feminist, a woman, or anything else. Thank you for this video. 💛
Absolutely. I am fully embracing as much girliness as I can get because I really denied myself in middle and high school. I don’t even like Dragonball Z. :/
"YA is becoming our new word for chick lit" ← OMG this this this this. As someone who works with books for a living, the way people talk about YA has become EXACTLY the way they've always talked about "chick lit." I believe this is because YA skews more toward female authors and protagonists than other age categories. In fact, the numbers show that boys overwhelmingly tend to skip the YA age category entirely and either jump from middle grade straight to adult or stop reading after middle grade, where girls will switch into YA and often continue to read it in addition to adult titles even after "aging out" of the YA category. Potentially because a lot of genres in the adult category (esp. sci-fi, fantasy, horror, etc.) are dominated by male authors, so continuing to read YA is one way to maintain a balance.
As always, your points are so on point!
Also, I really want to thank you for maintaining a distinction between demographic and genre. Like YA, shoujo is a demographic that has many genres within it, whether that's fantasy, romance, slice of life, thriller, whatever! I think so many people referring to it as a genre is one of the reasons people are surprised when high school romance isn't the ONLY possible subject in shoujo.
(Also, completely off topic, but I think your new haircut really suits you!)
I Love how Yona can have totally epic fights, complex political backgrounds, and totally super sweet romance and amazing character development.
"Yona is complex it isn't really a shojo"
- An IRL friend of mine
How often can you say the words “not your typical shoujo” until you realise maybe your idea of what a “typical shoujo” entails might not be entirely accurate?
Ugh that "virgin shounen" and "chad seinen" meme made me so frustrated. I am 21 years old and people my age REALLY want to prove they grew out of shounen and shoujos, they like seinen now. I geuninely can't convince any of my friends to start One Piece not because of its length but because they think it will be childish. I always have to tell them One Piece is not what they think it is. That it has a rich worldbuilding and depth and that it is not just some kid shouting "FRIENDSHIP!", getting a power up and punching people like how people think all shounen are. People become 18, watch Berserk and say "this is my standard now" fr
And don't even get me started on trying to convince people to watch my fav anime Revolutionary Girl Utena. They do one google images search and look at me confused like "this is your favorite?!". Because we chatted about Berserk, Evangelion and Lain before which are all "cool" and "deep", my favorite anime seriously can't be this girly looking thing in their eyes.
Basara is straight up a shojo lol. Sarasa and her internal struggle of self and identity, her needs vs those of others-her people-her team, her desire for Shuri despite his position politically. Star-crossed lovers, romeo and juliet level heartbreakingly great without the poison. Don't mind me I'm just a Yumi Tamura fan. She's a great author.
Thank you for mentioning this. I started reading Basara cuz if your comment.
Ive seen SO SO SO many reviews on myanimelist of shojo/josei manga literally starting with "I dont usually read shojo/josei but this isn't like those !! It doesnt have school love triangle drama etc etc etc etc etc"
seems like some people simply can't stand the thought of enjoying actual shoujo so when they do, they convince themselves that it can't POSSIBLY be shoujo. "it's not shoujo because I don't like shoujo!" I've seen similar reactions to kpop before, also within the anime community. when a kpop group did an anime OP in their own style, some people who enjoyed the song either did a 180 and decided they hated it after finding out it's by a kpop group, or they tried to find reasons to say it's simply NOT a kpop song whatsoever because they actually LIKE it and kpop is BAD and also THIS song is in JAPANESE so it CAN'T be like kpop (despite the song perfectly fitting into the groups incredibly identifiable discography and also having a Korean version)
Sometimes it sucks so much to grow up as a woman. Everything seems like a contradiction. You should feel ashamed for liking girly stuff, but you have to be feminine at the same time. You are never enough. That's why me and a lot of girls/nb people I know still struggle with internalized misogyny to this day. Also, with the rise of hate movements, sometimes you forget that you're not overeacting, that you're not delusional for wanting to be able to express yourself without fear. So thanks so much for your content, it's really important to discuss these topics. I also really apreciate how casual and acessible you are with people like me who are not really into mangas, but still finds your content amazing. Keep it up!!
I'm glad my videos have easy entry! It's something I try very hard to always do because it's something I needed for myself in class settings lol.
@@ColleensMangaRecs You're doing an amazing job! Your video of top 15 mangas made me want to read most of them!
@@ColleensMangaRecsAre Men's Rights Activists wrong and misogynistic?I'm sorry,I just don't know what to believe in this crazy world we're living in.
@@ahmadhadi177imo it's not wrong or misogynistic if they support men's right without demeaning women or looking down on women in every way possible, even if it's intended as a joke. Justice must be equal to any race, gender, nationality, etc after all
@@gracequeeney3399 It's just that most Men's Right's movements are kind of sexist and don't actually tackle the actual issues that men and women face.They also blame women and Feminists for their problems instead of being critical of Patriarchal Norms.I just feel a lot more comfortable with listening to Feminists than Men's Right's Activists.
This video was great. I have noticed and found alienating the many reviews on blogs that use phrases like "not your typical shoujo". When this phrase isn't used, the shoujo manga is being given one or two stars 😭
Excellent job at breaking down the "not like other girls" mentality in this video; it's something I certainly struggled with as a kid, especially when the discourse involving anything from female characters in animanga to the Disney Princess line was often nothing BUT this (don't know what today's equivalent is for the Rukia vs Orihime for Ichigo ship wars, and I don't care to know).
I'd also like to imagine that in some hypothetical "chad seinen" book club there's a bunch of cishet dudes blasting every other shoujo and shonen for "not being like" AOT, Berserk, or Gantz, only to discover that series like Rozen Maiden, Chi's Sweet Home, Shadows House, and Witch Hat Atelier are indeed classified as seinen, and that all they've been doing is measuring their worth and the worth of others around patriarchal constructs rather than anything of substance.
I felt the video on many levels. There was a time when I was sick of Shoujo having the same high school but then i did two things. One was expanding my horizon and found a variety of other shoujosie's, two was realizing that other demographics had similar problems. Plus, as much as love more mature alternatives like Rose of Versailles and Nana, I still look back at shows like Lovely Complex with fondness.
The thumbnail is killing me because even the breadth of adventure-fantasy shojo out there beyond Yona aside - the only way Fruits Basket is "not like other shojo" is that it got a full, well-regarded anime adaptation in the year 2019. 😂
I try to tell myself whenever this phrase comes up that maybe they're on the younger/newer end of their shojo fandom & basing it on the more limited, popular titles that immediately come up when you look up shojo anime... I know its not true at all (see all the review quotes halfway through the video) but it allows me to move on with my day.
Girls' media and their protagonists especially are held to such ridiculous standards, even if the writing or traits they claim would be better makes little to no sense for that particular story or character (i.e. teenagers always being perfect communicators, the sin of a toxic, messy relationship even existing in a more dramatic, heightened story that thrives on interpersonal conflict, etc...)
I really want to get into Shojo, I really really do! AS someone who has grown up with the magical girl genre and shojo anime before even knowing the word for the genre I really want to get into it more seriously. I love the aesthetic and as an AFAB individual (Agender) I really want to learn more about this topic, so your channel is a godsend.
Also I relate too much to then "never fullfilling societys expectations" (sine Im also neurodivergent) and I appreciatted the comentary.
I'm doing a class project focused on CLAMP (Who I knew from Sakura, only now figuring out they also did Chobits and Magic Knight Rayearth) and I'm loving learning about them as a Shojo icon.
I hope I can get more into the genre as time goes on, because I feel like it could be the genre I "need"
Would highly recommend X and Tsubasa from CLAMP too since they're two of my faves from them. Although Tsubasa should wait until you read more of their works maybe since it's a big crossover event lol
@@ColleensMangaRecs Noted, I'll keep that in min! Thank you
If you haven’t watched it yet I suggest watching Princess Tutu! It’s my favorite anime of all time, and it’s a completed story unlike so many anime out there. With only like 24 episodes it’s not to long of a watch
@@ColleensMangaRecs Tsubasa is an absolute masterpiece, but is definitely something you should wait on reading because of its complexity. It’s practically required that you read it alongside xxholic and vice versa, but by god. It’s probably one of the only shounen(?) manga I love, it just has so many layers and the way Clamp loves foreshadowing in even the most miniscule of ways gets me every time. I’m also a huge sucker for found family tropes, and Tsubasa is definitely one of those.
This topic is something I've been thinking about for a while in not just animanga contexts but in general and i really appreciate it how you articulated it so well. Especially in mainstream entertainment its such a male defaulted state that ppl dont even consider it to be an issue, but will still hold the position of looking down upon women (and men) who engage in female centric content. It's good that women can enjoy marvel movies and other male centric media, but the reverse should also be culturally true. the underlying sexism devaluing female-centric content is so omnipresent but unnoticed by so many ppl, especially with the poor media literacy of the general animanga community. so frustrating to see.
I always wondered why people always labelled what I viewed as a lovable and sweet female protagonist as 'annoying' and 'stupid' even amongst mostly women circles. Especially, when the male counterparts usually had far more flawed characters or simply characters that didn't compare to the more often than not generous heart of the female. The worst part about this was ithat this is a phenomenon I noted mostly in women circles. Thank you this video really opened up my eyes to why certain women choose to behave in such a way (BCS of social conditioning).
As a girl growing up most of the stuff that I grew into were shounen because that's what was mostly all around me but at the same time it didn't fulfill me completely. By venturing out on my own to discover shoujo, throughout the years as I became an adult, I came to realize just how much diverse it is and I love it. The main character/s can be a girl or a boy. The story could be about life, romance, mystery, murder and so much more or whatever categories it wants to be than what some tend to categorize it as. The diversity in shoujo seems to fall deaf ears sometimes and I feel the video resonated that by a big margin. Thank you for the video!
If you look up "Osamu Dezaki interview" on youtube, you will come across a video with FR/EN subtitles about Rose of Versailles in which he talks about the adaptation, as he was the director for the 2nd half of the series. When he talks about the artstyle, he mentions how he asked Shingo Araki to change it, since "this wasn't some sparkly anime about beautiful girls. And that we're going to depict the French Revolution" (oh my, apparently the manga didn't depict that at all!). As such, he asked Araki to get rid of all the manga prettiness, so they could create a realistic anime. Needless to say, there are those who use these very same words as an argument to prove how the TV series is superior, since it is MATURE and not made with teenagers in mind (as you may know, there is nothing worse in this world than the feminine audience which also happens to be in their teens). A classic example of how those in positions of power can AND will belittle feminine aspects in a media and will eliminate them if possible.
This is such a well put together video. You've expressed so well in this video a frustration I'm always struggling with, having been a Not Like Other Girls girl when I was younger. Pretending to hate pink, not showing (what could be perceived as) negative emotions, and getting ✨validation✨ from guys my age (and sometimes creepily older) for being interested in anime while being a Girl; I clung to those things as an identity. But at the same time I felt like I HAD to be attractive to them or they wouldn't pay attention to me and keep making me feel special, so of course I still had to do my makeup and hair and dress femininely. It became this whole stupid thing that even in my 30s, now identifying as non-binary, I still catch myself saying or doing things that aren't even what I want to say or do, because I'm so used to tailoring my personality to suit what I want someone to think I am.
Side note, remember messy buns? The amount of time I stood in front of the mirror in the morning trying to get my hair to look *just the right amount* of messy while still looking "put together"... Girl I could've beat Elden Ring with that accumulative time wasted.
Second side note, my least favorite trope I've come to recognize is: femme person who is feminine and caring and loving and that's her strong point and we *recognize* that being physically strong isn't the most important thing a person can be, just look at how strong she is emotionally--BUT DON'T WORRY she can still totally kick someone's ass because she's also secretly REALLY STRONG, and here's an action scene where she beats up like four people at once because that doesn't completely invalidate the point we were trying to make with her character in the first place. Sorry I'm totally not bitter.
I made a video essay once about Sana Kurata from Kodocha being the strongest female character in anime/manga, because of how she overcame her trauma and dealt with her emotions. Needless to say, I did receive a few comments from some shonen fans not understanding how overcoming trauma makes you strong, a few even joking about her fighting Goku from DBZ. Like...what? There are different kinds of strength, and it baffles me that some people cant recognize the difference. Just because I think a character is strong, doesnt mean I am referring to the physical aspect. I do wish people would be more open-minded about manga outside of their comfort zone.
This is a great video! What the Ani Manga Community needs because the amount of times I still hear this line is just.. disappointing.
As a girl I enjoy my metal music and baggy tshirts, but I also have my kpop photo card collection of my bias and dresses and heels like...its not a one or other thing lol
**Standing ovation** 👏👏👏
Like a true Tumblr user 😌
Since I was a teen, I always viewed 'femininity' as stereotypes. I have always been told I'm not like other girls. I never saw it as a compliment or insult. Depending on the person, I might bring up why that isn't true.
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for bringing up topics and ideas that need to be discussed.
The "woman moment" got me 😂😂😂😂
Me, having discovered manga through action fantasy from CLAMP, Yuu Watase and Yumi Tamura from the 90s going like, "what do you mean by 'Yona isn't like other Shoujo' ?" 😮
I remember my own time of despising typical things women liked. Sex & the City. Never watched it but for some reason I just said "it's sooo bad and stupid"
Just things society teaches you that you have to actively unlearn.
Great video, as always. And love the new haircut!
Also look! Mom, my name is there!! 🎉
I was also like that just hating anything liked by girls or women. Mine was Twilight/Justin Bieber and I was so mean about it (with my own assumption I was joking) at times I lost a friend too. It's really sad how we get taught to hate femininity so much that we end up hurting others.
And thank you! New haircut has been an adjustment for me but I'm starting to like it finally.
Yeah, Fushugi Yuugi and Escaflowne would like some words about that too
The way you kept saying femininity was deeply admiring because I would have been tripping up just in the first time, so you go Colleen! 🤣🤣🤣🤩 This is such a fantastic video! Since being more active in the shoujo community I’ve been amazed to see how much diversity in shoujo manga! I know it can be harder to find titles that’s not just high school romances, but like you said there is not one set of shoujo manga! Thankful for people like you showing how true that is!! 🧡 (Also I loved the Fairly Odd Parents reference at the beginning! 😆)
Shonen can be ANYTHING and people would still consider it shonen just look at the recent boom in shonen romcoms, no one argues that Komi can’t communicate is a shojo because it’s a high school romance but the second a shojo they watch doesn’t fit their perception of shojo (sometimes by just simply being good, a really egregious example is people calling FRBA NLOShojo) it’s no longer shojo. God forbid a shojo has a male protagonist, then it’s no longer shojo, or even worse a male author. Yet no one tries to argue that the promised Netherland is a shojo because Emma is the main character or just take the shonen darling FMA which was written by a woman. Stuff for men are stuff for everyone but stuff for women is only for trashy women.
Sometimes it feels like media made for women is not allowed to be bad because a bad shonen is just a bad shonen but a bad shojo is just proof that shojo is inherently bad.
I watched a video by a moon channel about girls video games and something that really struck me was him mentioning the idea of outgrowing girls games and playing “good” games instead . Which when you think about it, it’s kind of insane that we expect women to abandon media targeting their gender. There are games for boys and games for men but there are only games for girls.
The crazy thing is I know they don’t even hate the things in stereotypical shojos, as the aforementioned rise in high school romance shows that they like it, but not in shojo.
This! Also your point about how women are expected to grow out of things targeted at them reminds me of this situation where people were calling some women "creepy" for collecting reborn dolls deapite the fact that industries have constantly pushed young girls to have and play with baby dolls for ages meanwhile men having model cars is seen as something cool and not weird
Another excellent video! We’ve talked about it before, but I still find the “nltog”-ing of Banana Fish and Basara super funny as like, a more vintage manga fan. They’re like, ultimately just the most enduring examples of trends that were just popular when they were written. They’re good! But the only reason they seem at all atypical is due to the mishmash of what gets licensed and adapted in the overseas market. We didn’t get to see trends as they developed.
Likewise with Banana Fish, I think we’d be having a more sophisticated conversation around BL now if Hagio, Takemiya, and Aoike’s works were more known as they are so deeply baked into both BL and shoujo history. We tend to view them as adjacent but separate demographics in the US/anglophone overseas markets, and that’s. Both true and not true. It really depends on the publishing imprint and era as to how separable BL and shoujo/Ladies Comics are.
One thing that bares adding to the discussion of “Not like other girls” is that, while it often manifests as shunning women and their interests, I don’t think it is strictly motivated by misogyny. Which is important, because there’s a tenancy to push back Not Like Other Girls with ridicule and accusations when women/girls who say that are often already ostracized and bullied.
I was AMAB and bullied all the way into adulthood and had very few friends. I also had behavioural issues, depression and PTSD and was treated very poorly by my schools and institutions. They and my parents both would always blame me for being weird and would encourage me to be normal, act normal and have normal interests. I believed that the world hated me for being different.
So I took pride and virtue in being weird. There wasn’t an intentionally gendered aspect to it, I just happened to be AMAB so I defined myself against normal men and boys, saying things like, “I’m not idiot meathead who only cares about ‘who won the game.’ I’m an artist who actually creates things. I don’t go beat people up for being different, like normal boys. I don’t listen to dubstep like the idiot boys around me because I have the brains to appreciate music that requires talent to play, with meaningful, political lyrics.”
I viewed normality itself as vapid and shameful, including the interests of “normal” girls *and* “normal” boys. I was s**cidal but drew my sense of virtue from what differentiated me from the “normal” people and institutions that persecuted me. I was “not like other boys,” because I had been put down for who I was - not the other way around as “not like other girls” is often understood. I guess I worry for how girls in a similar situation might feel if scolded too harshly at the wrong time for this behaviour. It’s still cringey, wrong and again, often manifests in sexism, but should definitely be handled with sensitivity and compassion.
Another great video as always, Colleen. You’ve always displayed a great deal of empathy and explain feminist talking points in a way I find much easier to understand. UA-cam slept on actually putting this one in my feed and I’m mad about it.
Thank you so much for this video! It has a wonderful message it's almost never talked!
Thank you Colleen for this video. You're such an important voice for the shoujo community, I really appreciate all you do!
Hey, I'm not like *other* girls. I have...
SNAKE ARMS.
*Funky music plays*
This was great! Exactly the kind of incisive, inclusive analysis that I expect and desire from your channel.
thank you for putting the words out of everyone's mouth 👏👏👏 as a manga fan and a kpop fan I needed someone to talk about this problem
your observation is so incredibly accurate!!!! THANK YOU as always for bringing this issue on shoujo and misogyny to light!
I wish more people knew a thing or two about manga history so we wouldn't get the Banana Fish situation. Before BL existed as a demographic, stories with m/m relationships were published in shoujo magazines too, so if someone tries to get to the roots of BL, they'll end up reading a lot of shoujo stories. Nowadays besides the magazine the manga is published on, the main giveaway of the demographic of a m/m story is the tropes they portray throughout the story
Whenever I end up in these kinds of conversations I just continue to ask questions. The result is often hilarious.
this was so insightful. Thank you for the video!!
Great video! I'm not familiar with most shoujo series, but it's so cool to hear you lay out the ways past works have influenced present works.
Another great video! I always have the best time watching your content! Keep up the great work! 😊
i love colleen so much, bless this human being
As someone who didn't break out of their "not like other girls" phase until college, I feel super called out lol. I used to avoid shoujo like the plague. Shounen/seinen anime & manga was all that I was "allowed" to like because that's what is cool. Until I got stranded at a library and found a shoujo manga that I decided to give a shot at. I loved it and was shocked that I loved it. I even bought the las two volumes (the library didn't have them). It opened my eyes to this whole other side of Japanese media that i deprived myself of. Who cares if shoujo is considered "basic" by some people? They just are closed minded.
What a great video! Thank you. 💗💗💗
Colleen thank you always for your videos. I really love them wnd get excited every time and new one drops. They have helped ne check myself and confront my own relationship with "feminine" art, which opened me to a whole new world of art. I saw your Twitter thread and just hopping to do my part in adding positive feedback and hopefully overwhelm the the negative.
The ending made me absolutely crack up while doing chores, thank you as always
I love your channel and content sooo much ✨ it’s so pleasant to have an actual conversation around shojo !
Thank you for another great video! Your videos hurt me (by reminding me of harsh reality), but I need them ;-;
Btw, a very heartwarming, sweet anime is airing right now, "Yuzuki-san Chi no Yonkyoudai". It's a shoujo story about struggles of four brothers. Basically, the first comment I've seen under its page was "Why is it labeled as shoujo? I don't think it's targeted towards women, really" I was seeeeething. Why. Like, why. What shoujo did to you that you HAVE to make it non-shoujo to like it. Ugh...
this channel got recommended to me today and i couldn´t be more happy tot
I was definitely a “not like other girl” girl and I’m actually now in the process of rediscovering “chick flicks” since watching the Devil Wears Prada. Like I almost feel bad about all of the really cute movies I missed out on because I thought my ass was too good for them.
Dude. I saw so many comments on Crunchyroll talking about Chihyafuru and how she cries each episode and how annoying it was.
Dude.... dude. Have you watched Haikyu!?!? They cry so much! 😂😂😂
Also: can we talk about how YotD has better drawn action than a lot of shonen? Ugh, so good!
haikyuu got so much shit with the knb fans too huhu, especially when it was starting t get famous. it's as if their world crumbles when a male mc cries in every ep
Yes! I love the way it is drawn it’s so eye catching and easy to follow!
Thank you for another amazing video! This is such a loaded topic and as a girl myself, I totally relate to everything. I personally struggled growing up because I never really had a way to truly "perform" femininity when it comes to clothes or makeup even if I wanted (mostly because I was aware my parents couldn't afford them lol). That was what made me a target for ridicule from other girls. Because of it I felt that I needed to fully embrace "nOt LikE oTHer GIrls" persona and I pretended like I was more "mature" (even tho I was very much insecure and emotional deep down) and hide the fact I loved pink and kpop and other "girly" things. Only after I really finished school I started properly explore makeup and being more brave with clothing choices.
Also what you said about the animanga community labeling series as "not like other shoujou/shounen" because they are "not as feminine" and society's perception that "women write only girly stuff" cracks me up till this day because arguably the most highly rated SHOUNEN manga Full Metal Alchemist (Brotherhood in anime version) is written by....A WOMAN😂.
The amount of people who can't understand that Shojo is a demographic, not a genre is so frustrating. And some of those comments were truly INSANE. "This would have been better if was labeled shonen"...like what? somehow all the "great ideas" are better if your told it's aimed at boys instead of girls? I'm tempted to start reviewing Shonen and saying they're "not like other shonen". Lol. I would piss sooooo many people off and it would be hilarious.
This was a great video, and there were some awesome recommendations!
Love your recommendations and this video was awesome
Definitely reccomend checking out Undead Unluck. It's like a mixture of shonen and shojo!
The best video of yours so far
The people who say that really dont haven't watched or read a lot of shojo before
Thank you! Well put! 👌✨️
I have no idea why I got here but I'm gonna shill "The Rose of Versailles" and "Oniisama E" and drift back into the night
The way I was quietly cackling to myself at the end of the video 😂 Colleen, you’re too much! Please, never stop lol
KYOKO!!! I still remember the chills I got from that scene
Love this so much!! I just dislike the word not like other shoujo! Thank you very much for addressing this problem!
You're right and I hate it
Because of this video I had to have a rather serious, though equally enlightening, conversation about how much I tend to downplay anything targeted to woman be it intentionally and unintentionally and how that really REALLY limits my understanding of the world around me sooooo.... Thank you. You're doing some interesting work.😅
Getting you to think on it is all I can ask for, but I also appreciate the honesty on your end!!
This video is great! As a trans woman, one critique though is that femininity is expected of us, agab regardless, because we are women. For example, I dont want to be super feminine, I would prefer to be more of a tomboy, but carrying myself that way causes people (family, coworkers, etc) to misgender and look down on me for, as you said, "going against the grain" of womanhood.
Can you let me know which phrasing I specifically used that you're critiquing so I can watch how I say it in the future? Can't guarantee perfection still but as long as I'm aware.
@@ColleensMangaRecs No problem! Should've included it in the initial comment. For example, at 4:26 "if an afab person leans too far into masculine traits or appearances they're chided for going against the grain". I'm just pointing out that as someone who was amab, this has also been my experience.
So you're a biological male then? Being a tomboy means one has masculine traits... I don't get it.
@@eri_noemi1462I think this wouldn't be as difficult to understand if you would just respect that trans women are women. Referring to someone as "biologically male" is widely used to negate the fact that they are *a woman*.
We don't call everyone with masculine traits a tomboy. It is a term reserved for women/girls. Any woman or girl can be a "tomboy" as it is used to describe women and girls who prefer some degree of masculine presentation. It's about how certain women and girls prefer to dress/look, not their assigned gender at birth.
So you're a dude with extra steps and without junk
Great video!
Just wanted to say that the ending is so funny to me cuz i was literally drawing Gojo while listening to this
Very good video! I'm looking forward watching it. ❤
Colleen, amazing video 👏🏻
I can recognize in my life being in a self debate what should I be between the two. I avoided at all cost ‘be the other girl’ while admiring the other girl in shoujo and having her traits.
End of the story I have a both of two. And that’s okay 🤷🏻♀️ the important thing is being who I am in each characteristic I have
I can wear long and cute dresses but they don’t have to be in pink. I can wear tshirts too. I can be all cute and polite like a “typical” shoujo protagonist and that doesn’t mean I am not strong enough etc :)
It is easier when I listen to my own voice and not all the other people in the world who has this or that opinion about it
Okay I haven't watched the video yet but im already severely confused at the idea that people think Fruits Basket isn't like other Shoujo l. Like i get why people would think that about Yona even if its not true but Fruits Basket from non a character focused standpoint is just a typical rom vom with a few twists.
You'll get even more confused with some of the other series people have called "not like other shoujo" then lol
@@ColleensMangaRecs Still the most baffled by Fruits Basket but Tokyo Crazy Paradise is pretty close lol
Yona is different for sure
But Furuba is definitely not a romcom unless your looking at the show at a surface level, only watched the older version or the just the first season of the new anime
It’s marketed as a romcom because of the old version but it’s drama
@@azliee9865 No it isnt, unless you arent actually that familliar with Shoujo Yona is very much one of them from its writing to the artstyle, its not the only shoujo that focuses on war or fightng either. Fruits Basket on the other hand does have plenty of drama especially in the later section of the manga and last season of the remake but its still a rom com in the end of the day, anime can have multiple genres and rom coms and drama are 2 that overlap often especially in the shoujo demographic.
Your rants are great, up there with those of acollierastro.
But my typical trajectory with your video essays is to see you recommending something and then going and reading it before finishing watching your video. From this one I got Lovesick Ellie, and a reminder of that lemonade one. Also I recently visited Japan for the first time and came home with the first 5 volumes of Chihayafuru, to make my Japanese study that bit more magical. And I should like to mention that when I was looking for the work of a particular mangaka, my mention of the author didn’t ring any bells with the guy in the store, but as soon as I mentioned a title he was on it and led me to the shelf-do you suppose that’s typical?-a bit like how no-one pays attention to those who write the hit songs, only to the performers? Oh, and I was in a secondhand bookstore where they had an entire section of “Margaret”.
there's so much about this video that resonates and I wanna type a wall. but I'm not so articulate. nice work!
Id just like to say ty for your recs! My whole life i have had a hard time watching and reading this genre. As a result, i had grown a pretty bad habit of talking smack about it. But after watching your videos and realising that one of my all time faves is in this genre (natsumes book of friends), i have decided reevaluate this entire scene and, especially, the bad social influences and gender biases that literrally had me (a spunky
the people who leave review saying it's not like other shojos or that it shouldn't be called a shojo because it's more of [insert shonen or seinen] clearly only read the shojo they're leaving a review for and instead of thinking that maybe all shojo isn't what they think it is and stop putting it in a mold they just pat themselves on the back for finding "the exception", "the good shojo who's good because it made me think it shouldn't be a shojo". 🙄
I love your channel too much
the little skits are the real star
First time seeing one of your videos. I've seen a lot of discussion about how girls get to see femininity as 'bad' due to the way its treated so we often react by rejecting it strongly, so in that way it makes sense that if girls think 'thing marketed to girls = bad' they might feel reassured by being told 'no no, its not like THOSE shoujo', though thats just my personal experience from my time in that phase.
Also, saw the natsume and ghost hunt on your shelf, so I subscribed. My old favs from highschool!
I became my most true self when I started to ditch this mentality, which honestly I HAD to have if I wanted to not look lame in the eyes of my peers (I would say until the start of highschool? I cared a bit less already near that time)
I do love lots of stuff that is traditionally more "masculine" but man, I embrace my femininity fully now and I am just happy with my pretty little stickers in my journals and my cute dresses. Thank you!!!
sir, this is like, your magnum opus. greatly enjoyed your vid.
You calling me out for sure. Back in the day I did call Fruits Basket "not like other shoujo" but the only other shoujo I'd seen at the time was stuff like Vampire Knight, Kaichou wa Maid Sama, Ouran, stuff with romantically aggressive male leads that I found to be unlikeable. I had a very small scope and limited knowledge or access. Ignorant teen. I'm glad to learn about all the great stories I was missing out on now.
Listening to your videos always gives me a sense of relief and community. I watched and read so much shoujo in junior high school and high school. I was in my high school's anime club but always felt embarrassed to admit what genres I watched and read as most of the club were guys. My friend and I were often made fun of by our guy friends for liking girly media, and the club's general opinion was that Shoujo wasn't good, intelligent, or well-written. I remember my senior year when we had to introduce ourselves; I lied about my favorite anime because no one else picked any shoujo. I knew I would be ridiculed if I said I liked Sailor Moon.
Watching this while playing Fashion Dreamer felt very fitting
thank you for making this, it feels like we're stuck in the 80s with these constant remarks!!
2:07 this description is so funny to me because all throughout middle school this is how I felt abt boys. Every time they made a sex joke I wondered what in the world goes on in those tiny little heads of theirs to make them talk for the 8 hours of school we have and never once say anything that sounds like a conscious human said it. Not even in a way to hate guys but seriously for a lot of the guys I met it felt like talking to an AI bot made to spam sex jokes. I don’t feel like that in my high school but sometimes….
"Madoka magica is a deconstruction of magical girls because its dark and tackles heavy subject" said by someone who never watched or read any magical girl or even shoujo manga/anime(but seriously if you think that please get out of your bubble and go read/watch some shoujo)
i put it off for so long for this exact reason loolll
“It makes any young teen feel ashamed for something they might like, and in turn makes them shame others for the same thing.” -Colleen 2023
This is everything ❤
Great video 😊
I see Yona, I click.
Thank you for saying this! Strong women and strong female characters don’t necessarily need to be wonder woman. While that’s great, it’s so important to showcase value in femininity, caring, and nurturing qualities. There’s so much strength in them too. I’m a more feminine woman and I AINT AFRAID TO SAY I love all types of shoujos (it’s the superior genre)😂
A very nuanced and well thought out essay on issues surrounding how we categorize things. Honestly, after reading manga since the 90s, I've begun to see the shounen, shoujo, seinen, and josei as more a reflection of the magazine that publishes the series and nothing else. Yes, shounen and shoujo can have more child/teen specific themes and more black and white concepts but even then, I'm painting with a broad brush. It might be safer to categorize things more on the overall context e.g. high school, office, slice of life, adventure, fantasy, romance than to stick with the big four labels.
I read a considerable amount of "What did you eat yesterday?" which apparently is classified as a seinen b/c it is a cooking/slice of life/queer manga due to the fact it is published in 'Morning'. Nothing about this series screamed seinen!! to me with the quirky sense of humor and struggles of the two main characters. Yet, "Showa Genroku Rakujo Shinju" is a josei due to its publication in 'ITAN'. Both stories are around characters who are on the outside either by being gay in WDYEY or the fact that Kiku in SGRS always seems to be performing straight-cis-het masculinity for his entire life . . . and a complex relationship with his friend/competition . . .
From a story perspective, these are very much both of their time and how public and personal lives are kept separate and the cast are adults. I'd simply call them mature/adult series as they tackle complex issues and banal points of life while trying to have a successful career.