NEW NCAA Wrestling Rules Explained
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2023
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The biggest problem I have with the 3-pt takedown is that now wrestling fans can’t yell “TWOOOOOO!!”.
This upsets me. 😆
Now they'll yell three!
@@austinwynn9496 or "twee" or "thwee" or "wee" imagine the possibilities.
@@austinwynn9496now we're going to sound like basketball fans 😂
@@ahernandez9621yo this comment was fucking hilarious. The weee sent me over the edge 💀
I've said this soo many times 😅
Everyone: Nothing’s broken.
NCAA: I’ll fix it.
i think the 3pt takedown rule incentivizes stalling more, because it devalues stall calls which are already not being call often enough. with this rule change, you can get a takedown and then get called for stalling 3 times and still be winning. they have to enforce stalling more harshly or you'll see even less action than this past ncaa tournament. it was full of stalling, holding onto a lead, doing nothing, running away, trying to just sneak out a victory, especially in the finals, and i really don't think this helps that situation.
When have people not “stalled” in the third when holding on to the lead in a close match? It’s not optimal, and couldn’t the same thing be said for someone who doesn’t is on top and gets a four point turn in the first and trails the rest of the match? I think we should see how it plays out but nothing is inherently broken.
I think the opposite happens especially with aggressive wrestlers who strive for a TF. This gives them much better chance at a TF when it's 3/1 points each time they get a takedown/let opponent escape.
I love the 3pt takedown. It's about time. I think it will create more aggressive wrestling - not stalling. You can't stall on top any more by simply "riding" the ankle and breaking opponents down either. So MUCH less stalling will happen.
You can always tell the people who would use stalling themselves by how much they think others will do so.
@@lougiacobbi725 i mean you can watch high level matches where they often take one stalling call at the end when they're winning. Nothing wrong with that, you earned a lead you can take a few seconds stalling at the end. Now it's gonna be even easier to get a takedown in the third period and stall out the match from there, you can give up an escape and two stallings and easily ice the match.
Just mathematically, everything else in the match is that much less valuable if takedowns are 50% more valuable.
I think the 3 point takedown is an awesome change! An escape shouldn’t be worth only one less than a takedown. It transitions better for Olympic freestyle after college, and stops rewarding wrestlers who never take risks and stall all match.
I think there are some reasons for concerns. I think it is the fact that we are placing a higher value on wrestling from the feet than we are of top and bottom wrestling. Hypothetically, two guys equal in skill, one better at top/bottom the other better on the feet, before would have gone into OT, now the guy better on his feet will win. I think the wrestling community was used to the current balance and so changing that brings worries about losing the importance of top/bottom. I see both sides, but i think its disingenuous to say people are in error if they are concerned a little.
Ok but first round of OT is on their feet... why do people like seeing OT matches anyway? They should be RARE
@@rossspencer3675 smh 🤦♂That is not my point at all. It has nothing to do with OT. My point was that there was a balance before and now that balance has changed. I'm not even saying that the balance before was correct, I'm just saying lots of fans were used to that balance and it has shifted.
@@dinocollins720 i hear you im just not sure much has changed other than awarding wrestlers more points for a hard fought takedown
The day Collegiate wrestling goes to Freestyle is the day I cancel my season tickets.
I wish we villagers could get our wooden stakes are drive a stake through the heart of freestyle. The push out rule is stupid. If you are going to reward that- drop the singlet and have the wrestlers wear Mawashis.
Ikr, I really lost interest in football when they instituted the forward pass.
The push-out rule and this rolling around the mat in freestyle = get old quickly IMHO.
I still don't get a 3 point take down. It could be 2 and and 1 more point after 10 seconds if control is maintained. This rewards top wrestlers for being tough on top.
Ooo that’s actually a really good idea man
That would be a nightmare to keep track off. Now you have to decide when control started and stopped 2 times....once for the initial take down and when it ends. And what if they momentarily lose control but then gain it again..is it loss of control and the recount starts again? Is it an escape etc? Nah..this would be an absolute nightmare to call and cause way more problems than it solves....defeating the point of a rule change in the first place.
I like the 3 point takedown, but it makes the "reversal" kind of weird. So I can take you down, get reversed, and once we are back on our feet I am winning 4-2? I don't like that.
Can you elaborate?
@@valkfinitey5413 takedown, then a reversal: One person gains the control, then the opponent takes control. so why should one get less points than the other.
@@IDRUSKI The argument i could see is that a takedown is from a neutral position where as a reversal is from a disadvantageous position. So one less point is for being in that bad position. IDK but reversals are in a weird spot but i do like the 3 point takedown.
Finally, somebody who thought this through!
Interesting point. I had not thought of this. I can see no logical reason why a reversal should be valued less than a TD. Great post.
I certainly don't think the sky is falling, but I do feel like the 3 point takedown wasn't considered carefully enough. It's not that it's a bad rule, it's that there should have been a dozen other changes to complement it, like a mirrored increase in reversal points, an increase to major/tf criteria, perhaps a differentiation between an escape and a release. The change in scoring is certainly going to lead to some changes in strategy, and I'm not convinced that most of those strategic changes will lead to more exciting matches.
I'm not sure about that. A reversal is not as valuable as a takedown. A reversal can happen situational without much effort. A takedown is not going to happen without considerable effort
Exactly. The desired emphasis for changing the rule is great but they didn't think through all the other aspects of how it can actually decrease entertainment value.
I think this was very well said!
@@rossspencer3675if your getting a reversal just like 'oops' without effort than your likely wrestling a guy that will cut you loose EVERY time he takes you down. In my opinion reversals take as much effort as takedown especially when considering how wrestlers are taught to release when in danger from top ... to give "1 not 2"
@@williamsischo3094 yeah I hear what your saying. Im just not sure i agree. Getting an escape or reversal are definitely tough but they are not as hard as getting to the legs then finishing. Sometimes finishing a takedown takes 30 seconds of fighting and positional awareness.
What the 3 point takedown does it eliminates the top bottom position from wrestling entirely. that is why people are calling it freestyle, because some of us don't like to watch belly flops.
Love these mid-length content uploads. Exciting to see y'all continue to evolve and adapt your strategies - these are great!
Appreciate you saying so.
Hey Christian, my counter is that riding and ground control is part of general grappling and too bad if its boring to you. It is a massive part of grappling! Look at jiu jitsu for example, where guys spend 90% on the ground trying to control each and submit each other. I understand this is not jiu jitsu but my point is ground game is massive in grappling. This sport isn't called "neutral game" or "turn time" its called wrestling, and breaking down your opponent to control him is part of that, whether you like that aspect of the sport or not, its realistic and necessary. As long as top guy is actively working, no one can prove he isn't looking for a turn. Absolutely asinine that people want refs to micro manage top riders like this. If he's working on top he's working, not stalling. And tell your wrestler to get up if you don't like it.
Believe it or not there are mma fans that complain about grappling in mma. And to them its the SAME exact scenario. Go watch boxing or kickboxing if you don't like grappling aspect of mma. Unbelievable that I have to counter this to a flo guy.
Leave folkstyle alone
Jiu jitsu is boring as hell. The only time jiu jitsu is the least bit interesting is when the opponents can punch each other in the face. It’s called MMA.
As a coach of 22 years and now a referee for the past 6, turning from top has always been what EVERY single wrestler learned in youth, ms, and hs. Riding parallel from top will get you dinged in hs every time. It was until college they were incentivized to lace an ankle, pinch the hips, hold on to the 2 on 1 and stall your ass off for a whopping 1 point. Think about it.
There is a reason we restart if someone is just riding legs without moving toward a turn. A lot of actions on top, what you are calling control, are meant more to prohibit the action of the bottom wrestler, not enhance the action of the top wrestler. I've seen too many bottom wrestlers get called for stalling when the top guy is doing nothing but trapping an ankle with a tight waist or a 2 on 1 and just putting pressure on without actually trying to improve their position. If the top wrestler is just "controlling" and nothing else, then restart. It's not like we are returning them to their feet like in freestyle, you still have top position.
@@lougiacobbi725 Can't keep the same hold if it isn't working, and refs can call that. Have to work to improve. If ref lets a guy keep the same lock that's bad reffing. Riders get harassed for stalls and 5 counts a lot. Not sure what matches you watch. One rule I will agree with though is banning the figure 4 from leg ride. That's stalling, as your legs just immobilize bottom guy, and rarely ever has improvement in position
Sorry for coming on strong Christian. Not trying to be negative. Like your positive approach. I still think folkstyle will be great next year, although 3 point takedown is a wait and see for me
I love these Pyles with a Mic videos.
Thanks Ross!
Do you guys know if these rules will also be incorporated at the high school level?
I like the three point takedown.
2 escapes don’t equate to the level of effort a takedown requires.
2 escapes and a ride out do take more effort than 1 takedown though. I'm not saying that rideouts should be even worth a point, but it's silly to think 1 takedown is harder than 2 td and a full round rideout. If you take someone down, they escape, they escape in the next round, then ride you out, you don't "deserve" a win at all.
When it's beginning of the third period and you're down by 1, the effort is MASSIVELY greater than a 2pt takedown.
Controlling your opponent on the ground is the main reason why Folkstyle wrestlers are so effective in MMA. Folkstyle is the closest thing to what true wrestling should be. I know it’s a sport, but rules are shaping it to be less effective in real world scenarios. Incentivize top control don’t punish it. I love wrestling and love mma and hate this change so much.
Good video! Thanks for the explanations!
Since it’s so hard to turn a good wrestler, I think it’s gonna become a match of takedowns now that you have to work for a turn. I doubt you’ll see much wrestling on the mat, guys will just cut a guy if they can’t turn him quick enough. I’m thinking falls will go way down and tech falls go up. Wrestling on your feet has just become a lot more valuable….. obviously.
Will that medical forfeit rule be called the “Spencer Lee” rule? I realize it was his teammate, but there was all kinds of controversy when he wanted to medical forfeit.
UNLESS, you cut the guy after a td and then get taken down yourself. Alot of the ncaa top hammers can tilt from any position. The td artists will do as you suggested but when two of them square off....MAT wrestling will be paramount.
Wrestlers will have to adapt and turn into zain retherford on top to take adavantage of the dominant position.
I'm pissed that I can't yell "twooooooo!!!" anymore. If you want to grow wrestling, drastically changing the rules every couple of years is not the way. It makes it hard to follow even for active wrestlers.
Need to add more wrestling footage to these videos.
Biggest thing I’m gonna miss most is hearing the entire gym yelling the, “Twoooooooo!!!!!!”. Can we keep that but still award 3? 🙏🏼
How do you enforce then turn rule though. Do they lose a point of they don’t attempt turn, Do they get a restart, do they go neutral? I just see it being hard to enforce without issues. I could see a close match getting somehow decided at the end because the guy who scored an ending takedown didn’t attempt a turn. I just want to see how it is enforced in a way that doesnt cause controversy.
They should have increased pts needed for majors and techs as well. I like seeing the number of takedowns or nf pts now it takes to earn these. I don't want matches ending quicker. I also think a nf should easily be 2pts greater than a takedown so at least increase nf pts.
Is it still going to be called stalling on the bottom wrestler for failing to escape? Or is this now going to be called on the top wrestler for failing to turn?
If they wanted to reward takedowns appropriately the wrestler with mkre takedowns during the match gets 1 point at the end.. similar to how riding time point is added. 3 point takedowns is stupid.
Is this just for college or is it going down to high school and below?
"The top guy must work for a turn" ... tbh if the top guy only breaks down the bottom guy and is not working to turn ... the top guy should get hit for stalling. top guy works to turn his opponent and get the win by pin or technical fall. obviously the top guy might need to break down the bottom guy so he can work to turn and pinning him ... and bottom has to escape or get a reversal.
I think the points needed for major and tech should increase with the change. major +1 and TF +2 to start.
Agreed. Much easier to tech a guy now.
Nah, the other guy also gets 3 points if he does something otherwise end the match if it’s out of hand
What’s COMPLETELY BEING IGNORED is Folkstyles connection to MMA/UFC. We have seen folk style wrestlers BY FAR having more success in both mma & submission grappling then anyone else. Folkstyles unique connection to mma (as well as BJJ) is vital for the popularity of wrestling and American wrestlers ability to have success in MMA (it gives American wrestlers more options to become professional athletes after college and make money & support their families while competing) MMA is BY FAR the most popular & fastest growing combat sport in the world. I think SOME in the wrestling community (definitely not all) don’t understand how folkstyles connection to mma has greatly increased the popularity of the sport & could continue to as the sport grows. The key to all this is folk styles emphasis on control, You remove that emphasis you do an incredible amount of damage to American wrestling long term. If I had it my way (I’m a wrestling purist) we would go back to catch wrestling, which is what folk style came from, & later freestyle. This entire thing is moving American wrestling further away from what wrestling is supposed to be, a combat sport where one man attempts to dominate another, an extremely effective form of combat.
Making it “more popular” or “more exciting” is non sense, FAR MORE Americans watch folk style then freestyle or Greco (if it’s all about how exciting it is, why isn’t Greco the most popular?!?) Judo did the exact same thing in an attempt to make it more appealing and what eventually happened was judo was hurt long term, BJJ instead took all the ground techniques and because of mma is now far far more popular. Imagine had Judo not done that and instead the UFC was full of Judo practitioners?The People doing this don’t understand the big picture and long term consequences. There was no need to change folk style, there was no demand from the community or athletes themselves to change it, it seems like it’s bureaucrats changing things just for the sake of changing them.
That's a good point, but I don't agree making wrestling more it's own sport than a subset of MMA is a bad thing. Wrestling is a lot like a combat sport except you don't injure the opponent. It's a test of wills where both wrestlers are in pain during the match but once the match ends you shouldn't have any lingering injuries.
They're trying to build a professional wrestling league, and personally I'd rather see more NCAA champs find a career wrestling than UFC.
How come not a lot of people are talking about the ankle ride? Especially given how many high level wrestlers live and die by it these days. It'll be interesting to see how someone like carter sterocci adapt to it since its how they won a lot of their matches
CP loves to play devils advocate, even he knows these rules are stupid. Upping the value of a score doesn’t make the match more exciting, if that were the case why not make Takedowns worth 6 like a touchdown? You don’t need to incentivize wrestlers any more than to raise their hand when they win. Being competitive is inherent to wrestlers, wrestling fans love wrestling and these rule changes are just ridiculous. If they think this will draw in new non-wrestling people as fans by incentivizing scoring they are naive or stupid. They are changing rules just for the sake of change. This will not have the desired effect. Quit trying to fix things that aren’t broken.
Love the three-point takedown!
without having no reaction time td from rear standing neutral control you make what is a dominant control position in actual fighting worth nothing in folkstyle where you have to give up control by unlocking your hands upon taking the guy down, cutting him loose in a reverse process, MY SOLUTION WOULD BE TO ALLOW FOR 3 SECONDS OF CONTINUED LOCKED HANDS FOR THE OFFENSIVE WRESTLER TO ENSURE THAT HE GETS POINTS FOR HIS STANDING CONTROL IF REACTION TIME IS BROUGHT BACK after the TD otherwise it's not fair
Love the 3 point take down
Changes SUCK !!!! Should leave it alone ! That also screws the record books up
I have NEVER seen a wrestling record in the record books that has total points score. Total TD's is counted but how is making the value of said TD going to change the record books? If anything, kids will try harder to achieve the TD's now.
When tf did we start having to wrestle for the fans. I don’t care what the fans think it’s bull shit we are the ones who are actually wrestling and have no say😂
Stone Cold Stunner is now worth 5 pts. Great! 🎉
How many points is the F5 worth?
Sparks is right. Additionally, how can you possibly make a takedown be worth three points while leaving reversals at two? It's harder to reverse than to take down and now the incentive for the guy on the bottom is shake free for one point, and then attempt a takedown to get four, rather than two in a fell swoop? In two years when its all catch and release is the game and pins are fewer, they'll probably do more screwing around with the points than admit they screwed up.
Yep. Catch and release is being incentivized vs. the de-incentivizing of turning, which is ostensibly not what they have in mind. That's why I think it is fair to say they're just trying to make it more like freestyle, where the only mat action you see is the stupid-ass leg lace for a tech.
@@dvdly Which is why I hate freestyle.
So will wrestlers just stop going to in season tournaments?
Wait final X happened ? I didn’t know, for some reason I couldn’t stream it.
1:29 youre wrong christian. Those core tennants are now minimized for takedowns only.
Ben Askren's ankle ride is gone.
In general, I like the changes. However, I am wondering how a referee will distinguish between working for a turn and just wrestling for control. A strong bottom wrestler will be difficult to keep down and may not provide opportunities for turns. I would hate to see a top wrestler called for stalling when they are doing a great job on top against a strong bottom wrestler. I think it will be a hard call for referees to make and to be consistent with match after match.
Your point is the only valid argument on this thread. No changes will help make wrestling more exciting because wrestlers and their coaches will always stall and coach stalling and Allie their athletes to stall.
To put stalling so let on the referee is a no win scenario. I’ve seen only a handful of umps ever be really proficient and consistent with stall calls.
Most umps were stallers themselves, don’t understand when you should call stalling, and are incredibly inconsistent with stall calls.
Two points or three, nothing will change unless coaches and athletes buy into an aggressive style that scores points and fans want to watch.
The “two takedowns to one and it’s still 4-4” is a ridiculous take.
How many tech falls are coming next season?
Appreciate all the info i hear you for sure. I'd also suggest being more concise in your videos...frequently you say the same basic point two or three times in a row, throwing in a folksy phrase or personal aside . [E.g. You'd say something like, "I'm not sure about this's next point, but..." then instead of just saying the point, you' might go, "i heard it over lunch and I'm asking myself, could this be true...? Does it add up? Especially with this sport you never know-don't wanna put the cart before the horse..." and so on. It'd be great while chatting irl for sure but it starts to drag in yt video.
Yes to everything you said
RE: riding point IF you achieve a turn is redundant and pointless IMO. Chances are great that if you got a turn, an extra riding point would be obsolete. RE: top must turn. great! we are back to HS stalling from top(w/the exception of rideout). RE: Forfeiting tournaments. Once again, back to HS rules. RE: morphing into Freestyle. Nah. I don't see it. The only thing I see moving towards freestyle is the frequency of tech falls, which leads me to my last point. Team bonus MUST go from 8 to 10 point differential. Tech can stay the same.
If we're going to have 3 point takedowns then we need to make every minute of riding time worth a point. Regarding riding, when I wrestled a guy had to be working for a turn when riding, and warnings would be given if all he did was try to ride. Bring that rule back. I had no idea there was no rule about working for points on top! That's ridiculous. No doubt another "gift" from the freestyle fans.
Folkstyle needs to keep stressing control. Takedowns are already properly represented with 2 pointers. Even Sr level FS only has 2 point takedowns!
take down isn't even close to being as hard as a turn. I am so sick of people destroying wrestling. I am ready to be done coaching with them Taking wrestling out of it
The three point takedown is the right direction.
Glad the riding time isn't changing. We need to stop micro managing top rider. As long as they are actively working there's nothing to say. Can't get up? Don't cry about rules. It's not the rules fault. If you prefer to watch neutral game then go watch freestyle and leave our style alone, you dingbats. Folkstyle is the best chess match in the sport of wrestling, don't turn our style into checkers
If you can only hold them down, then cut them loose so you don't get called for stalling, the way it's been in folkstyle since like 1900. Riding a guy out is great, but the goal shouldn't be just to ride someone out, the same as the bottom guy's goal shouldn't be "don't get turned," and they shouldn't be allowed to bunch up, refusing to come up bc they don't want to open up the top wrestler's options for turning them. Both wrestlers should be working to advance their portion of the position, and if they can't, make it a problem - since the top guy always has the option to cut them loose, he's the one you have to put the onus on.
If you're good at riding but bad at turning, you're a not a good enough wrestler and it should be reflected in the scoring.
@@TylerJayWalker If top guy is actively working and advancing, that's wrestling, regardless if he succeeds in a turn. Cut him loose, or not, it's your decision as the top rider in control, as long as you are actively working to improve positions. Yes I believe there is stalling on top, but the way it is currently judged by refs is a fair rule setting already, no need to change it. We already see multiple stall calls on top wrestlers in a typical match, and that's good, but let's leave it alone and not add to that
There’s hella guys that win matches by riding a guy out for 1:01 and let them go right then while they’re hanging on for dear life
I could see the tech fall occurring faster. Maybe a runaway match faster. Might be a negative for the late match big gas tank guy.
I’m okay with the 3 point takedown. The rule I had a problem with was the 4 point near fall that was introduced some years back. Just seems a little excessive..
Totally agree. If your opponent scored a 4-pt NF, the match was essentially over unless you could score your own 4-pt NF in return.
Plus, it always seemed like refs were too eager when counting the 4-count…. People were scoring 4-pt NFs in 3 seconds.
Strongly disagree just up your top game
Working for a turn is going to come less into play, becayse if your get three points for a takedown, they’ll just kick the guy.
wish I wouldn't have even got my kid into wrestling now that we don't have folkste
This is exactly what destroyed judo, they ignored the ground fighting in favor of the throws because it’s “more exciting” 😂 well guess what? Brazilian jujitsu came along and took judo’s boring ground grappling & jujitsu now is WAY WAY more popular then judo! The most “exciting wrestling” is Greco, by far, but it isn’t even CLOSE to being more popular. We’re getting Further & further away from the essence of wrestling.
If they really want to value mat wrestling why not make the reversal worth 3 just like a takedown?
No one is going to ride anymore. Just let him up because takedowns are worth more
is this gonna effect the high school rules?
No, NCAA doesn't govern high school rules, only College.
Not turning from top and new forfeit rule ARE both current NFHS(HS) rules. The NCAA is adopting HS rules.
High school wrestling in NY in my city was huge. High school in 2008 says if you arent working towards a turn you're stalling. These rules seem to maintain folkstyle while get athletes better prepared for world competition (freestyle). Also keep matches a lot more active which is good for the sport. It isnt making the sport impure. Just evolving to make it more watchable and more strategic for the athlete
In regards to the unhealthy wrestler leaving and losing....if the person isnt fit for combat and a trainer says no due to legitmate injury, it should not be a loss. Unsure if an actual injured person will lose matches for being unable to continue. I may have missed that part
This is terrible for wrestling, it’s incredibly short sighted and whoever is responsible for this doesn’t understand the long term implications. there was literally no need for this. Folkstyle is a distinctly & culturally American style of wrestling. What’s most important regarding folkstyle is the emphasis on control, The riding time is crucial, if anything, every minute of control time should be a point, The escape points are important as well. Wrestling is ALOT MORE then just a takedown competition. This whole “you need to turn your opponent” is absolutely absurd.
These are great rule changes. We need to get rid of folkstyle all together and train and wrestle freestyle full time.
I like the ratio of 3:1 takedown : escape. Especially if a guy is behind in the 3rd, the opponent is gassed, and we're in a "catch and release" situation. Will give a lot of guys with big gas tanks a fighting chance late in the match.
I like Rob Koll's point that the Rules Committee will adjust as needed. They've done it before, and recently.
A rules change that had massive, controversial impact was the no-warning, one-point for hands to the face. If I remember correctly, that decided a couple matches between top guys. The committee tried it, it didn't work in that form, so they changed it to the current deal of getting at least one warning. Credit to the rules committee for adjusting as needed.
I'd have like to see the riding time point be contingent on the turn, but hopefully the "riding to turn" criteria will help. I wrestled in New York in the 80s, and we liked to turn so much we'd choose top in the 2nd figuring we'd blow the match open before the 3rd. So I'm glad they're pushing guys to turn.
As a “mat wrestler” who won a ton of matches against opponents who were better than me on the feet, this is a sad day.
Under the old rules someone had to be a lot better on the feet to simply avoid wrestling me on the mat. Under the new rules, they can win one takedown, give up two escapes, stall, and win.
I mean with your logic your style would still get exploited by anyone that takes you down and then cuts you
I think that riding time should be worth 1 point per minute - not just capped at one point total.
@@SpicyBoba7431 not under the old rules. One takedown isn’t enough to avoid mat wrestling, you would need to be at least two takedowns better than me to avoid mat wrestling under the old rules.
Why can’t we just do freestyle?
It was never officially named “folk style.” That was just something people called it. It’s always been NCAA wrestling rules. There’s really no such thing as “folk style.”
I'm totally on board with this. The parallel riding with the hooked ankle without looking for a turn got out of hand. The whole Penn State vs Iowa dual last year was 2 hours of that from both sides. What was supposed to be the most exciting dual of the year was an absolute snoozefest. I look forward to watching this year.
It completely decimating folk style with these changes y mess with a system that has been in place for decades
That medical forfeit rule should be called the Spencer Lee rule.
How many matches have you won Chance? Have you accomplished anything close to what Spencer Lee has done? Keyboard warrior, probably never even stepped foot on a mat
@@trevoreder4822 Are you from Iowa? I think I detect an Iowa accent.
Penn State fan but just don’t care for people putting down Spencer Lee. He bowed out of the last tournament while he was ahead. Man was recovering from double ACL surgeries, the fact he even went out and competed was impressive. You got your opinion I got mine. No harm no foul
The "working for a turn" rule is pretty much great. It shouldn't be just "work and flatten them out" if you're on top. repeat that a couple times and you're either stalling if you keep doing it, or you need to change what you're doing.
"No real credit given for not changing riding time". ???? Are you freaking kidding? They change the basic value of points, and you want people to give them credit for not changing everything? Are you an NCAA schil? "Buh, I don't care if they stopped having back points be a thing, the refs still use whistles. Give them some credit, you alarmists." Get real, Pokey.
The previous takedown rules needed to be changed, but 3 point takedown is too much. Instead it should be determined by criteria. So continuing with the previous scoring, if one person has one point for escape, one point for riding time and 2 point for one takedown for a total of 4 points. The other wrestlers also has 4 points due to 2 takedowns, However via criteria the wrestler with 2 takedowns wins. Because takedowns are of greater skill. I believe this is much more fair then a 3 point takedown. However, the hardcore college wrestling fans would like and also think it is better. The casual fans paying for tickets at a college arena will hate this most likely.
Chris we need a push out rule, I’m tired of teams like Arizona who have mastered the out of bounds line, McGee, teemer, Courtney, and Jesse Delgado lived on that dang out of bounds line, and the refs are way too inconsistent about stalling calls, if there pushed out 2 times or if you back up twice it should be a stalling call, also can we please address the elephant in the room, these sorry tournaments where u have penn and the second best team is csub, I’m from Bakersfield so I can say that, but these tournaments are jokes, Iowa goes to the armed forces tournament, what the hell is that and why in the world would as a fan would I want to watch that, I’ve said 100 times already, coaches please quit trying to get your wrestler that undefeated record and he loses in the ncaa championship to the number 2 guy who he has never wrestled before, how in the world does that make sense to a coach and as a fan who want to see these matches take place, really? Vito never wrestled rby this year, daton never wrestled rby this year, Vito never wrestled daton this year? This is mind blowing to me how the toughest guys on the planet haven’t wrestled at all this year? I hope Russia and Iran don’t do this, I’m going to call it team dodging because that’s what it is.
I don’t care if the fans think it’s boring stop trying to change rules for others entertainment
Less of an explanation more of an interpretation/reaction
I like the 3 point takedown.
riding times is a small attempt at pretending we are going to wrestle
I posted something similar when the proposals went through.
Adding 3 with the 2 and 4 point near fall will be a big change. Are they keeping the one pt escape and 2 reversal? That will be a point of contention. So you use to get a takedown and the guy could reverse for 2. 2 and 2. Now one gets a takedown for 3 but gets reversed for 2. Now add in if the guy starts 2 or 3rd period and takes down. He gets a reversal for 2, but never gave up a takedown. Will that be 3 points. Will they need to clarify that. Something like an offensive reversal. If he starts down (meaning choice not down because he was taken down) and gets a reversal. Can he get 3 just like a takedown. Then an defensive reversal. Meaning he got taken down, and then reverse the guy and gets 2. Keep riding time, but if they don't get a turn. Put them back on their feet. Bottom guy does not get a escape point. Then top guy can get more riding time once he gets another takedown. Bottom guy can still get an escape but not if the ref puts them up because top guy was just riding and not trying for a turn.
How will this change the escape. How many coaches have yelled "1 not 2" Down guy does he go a a escape for 1 and go for the 3 takedown. If they make all reversals 3 (equal to a takedown) the matt wrestling will change. It will interesting to see
Prediction: During the first month of the season some tops guys will lose due to the new rules. Then the coaches will adjust and it will right itself by tourney time.
The forfeiture rule is horrible!
Nah, they should be punished for not wanting to compete
You don’t understand pyles because you never actually wrestled
W take
w comment.
It’s not a problem with the “work to turn rule”. The concern is how is this going to be appropriately enforced without disagreement and frequent match stoppages to get it right. This is a judgement rule and will be interpreted differently by each ref and coach.
True about ref judgement. But most of us are consistent with what it takes to get a stall call from top. Not turning from top has been stalling in HS for ever. riding parallel, lacing and sitting on an ankle, legs in without attempting a turn, and riding a two on wrist. Good refs however do ALOT of "preventative officiating though. EG.. "BOTH GUYS NEED to improve" is what I say when I see stalling. I normally start getting verbal after about 10 seconds of nothing. I'll verbally warn to improve again and if they don't listen, they deserve the stall warning.
There should be more than a six month notice for a lot of reasons including technique and recruitment.
Changing the take down to three points is a great idea. Equivalent to changing it to two points from one point in international rules. Totally changed the game and made it infinitely better.
Wrestling is broken.. still changing rules in every style.. like every other year.. Get the politicians out and get some wrestlers making the decisions.. This sports rule set should've been the same since day 1
Seriously, we never should have outlawed spitballs, or eliminated the two line pass, or allowed the forward pass in football. Stick to the original rules.
Politicians? The rules committee is almost entirely made up of college coaches
@@christopherroth7239 almost..lol
@@TechnicaledgeWrestle 6 of the 8 members are coaches
@@christopherroth7239 word.. well I don't really keep up with college, I just know fila aka UWW is all politics no matter if the board still wrestles each other in their office..
It's a bad idea to make so many changes at once.
You gave zero reason for why a takedown needs to be 3 points
Want more turns? Reward turns 2-5 nearfalls and call top stalling
Riding points are fine.
The number one thing to do for popularity is switch to duels.
Because the ratio makes no sense b/t escape and td. I said that on the video.
And what are we getting? Fewer dual meets.
You get 3 takedowns, let the guy up each time, 6-3, he gets one take down he’s already back in the match after all the effort it took for you to get 3 takedowns, with new rule it’s 9-3, 9-6,
@christianpyles1820 that requires a lot of explaining from a game theory perspective. I don't think the three point takedown is terrible I just think collegiate should be balanced around aggressive riding and turning first. I don't want guys to just start cutting like crazy and one way to add the 3 point takedown and still make riding to turn the most enticing/rewarding is to also increase nearfall to a possible of 5. We are talking 8 point moves. 9 with ride time. A tech is 15 so there is still work to be done. I feel like without the increased NF value and the now (rightfully) added rules to stop top stalling the sport is now ( just a bit) over rewarding the takedown
@@dillonmackay683 so don't let him up? This isn't freestyle
3 point take down. 👍👍👍
One take down and you are in a big hole - must get take downs now
yes, if it gives a less escape-escape-OT matches, then good.
Its makes things into freestyle because it essentially removes the need to wrestle on the mat.
All depends on wrestler style. 80% of matches already spend 90% of the match on their feet. Not much will change EXCEPT for bonus team score.
Like we don't already have too many matches that go like this:
1st period - no score
2nd period - 10 sec escape
3rd period - 10 sec escape
1st OT - no score
rideout.
@Lou Giacobbi i fail to see how thats going to change by a 3point takedown. If neither guy can score one the result you complain about here will be the same. The issue with the 3 point takedown we will either see 1. More catch an release matches which for all intents and purposes is a freestyle match OR we will see guys stall sitting on leads more due to the bigger points differentials they got from an earlier takedown.
The counter to having to work for a turn is a simple one and applies to any rule change that requires the referee's interpretation of what a wrester is or isn't "trying to do". How many times in just last season did you see a situation in which the top wrestler was warned and often even penalized a point for not working from top or bottom when it looked to you like the wrestler was just struggling against his opponent and would have been more than happy to either break the guy down, or get up from having been broken down, but was not able to? Well, now, just like all the dubious stalling calls from neutral, or lack thereof, that you can recall, add the "he's not trying to turn" to the list of subjective factors that insert the ref into the outcome. If anything, there should be fewer cases in which a stalling interpretation should come into play, not more. If you can't get away, or can't take someone down, get better. If you don't like excessive riding for riding's sake, get rid of riding time.
I like the 3pt takedown in general but one thing is reversals are like totally dead now?
Reversals were always kind of underscored before, but now a reversal is almost just bad. You're almost never going to go for a reversal anymore, just take one point for escape and go for a takedown you could end up with 4 points. Maybe make reversals 3 points now too keep reversals part of the sport? But this is also what people are saying about the 3pt take down in general, there's just going to be a lot less mat wrestling.
Working for a turn, rather than just riding, connected with 3 point takedown, makes it possible to either turn or cut and go for 3 more takedown. I like these changes.
3 point takedown is awful.
did you know that for the past 5 years, 65% of all ncaa matches were 3-2 or 2-1? 3 point td's won't make that stat any worse. Trust me.
3 point takedown sucks
right they ruined folkstyle
These rule change’s definitely benefit wrestling!!
Folk style is booooooooooring
I have advocated for a 3 point takedown for many years. It will help the sport.
ncaa wrestling should have went to freestyle rules a decade ago.....makes no sense we're the only country with folkstyle.....
AND YET the NCAA Wrestling Tournament dwarfs any other wrestling tournament in the world. Clearly the rest of the world is interested in our athletes and style of wrestling.
Actually, this isn’t true. Many countries have their own folk style.
@@schenksteven1 please give some examples I didn't know that I'd be interested
@@tigerpark135 folkstyle has 1 big tournament a year lol....of course there's a ton of viewers
@@TheBullet51 Sumo, pelwahni, judo, sambo, bjj. Those are some of the more well known. But many cultures have a folkstyle that is unique to their history. Then there are the two olympic styles.
Just read the wikipedia article on "wrestling," it is fascinating.