So impressive! Were also refitting a 65' power catamaran, and its amazing to see how others are tackling these big projects. Thanks for sharing your journey!
Thank you for taking the time to provide great pictorial images of your set up and setting. it's very informative, and your live test provides great results! I've two comments that I respectfully submit to you. I'm surprised that you're not using battery isolators. I suspect you've researched their use, and your multiple battery set up doesn't require them? I suggest that you install additional circuit breaker/ battery switches at the location of your system. It's way too easy while removing a hot lead from your bus bar to have it land on a ground.... I've done that with my 32 volt system and almost lost my life and my boat when the hot lead fell onto a steel mesh reinforced fuel line--- the mesh instantly turn white hot and diesel burst into flame.
I’m in the process of buying a 1981 Cheerman PT38 Euro Sedan Trawler. She has 10 6 volt GC batteries and they’re at end of life. So I’m going to have to do something almost right away. We also have a Zantrex Freedom 30 inverter changer. So I’m currently contemplating a full upgrade to a Victorian Multi plus and lithium. I must say, I like the price better on your batteries and it’s definitely easier to install via the 8D configuration. Thanks for putting out this video.
Thanks for sharing your install! If you have not already done so I would recommend installing a BlueSea or BEP T-class fuse (20,000 amps at 125 volts) within 7 inches (or can be longer if in an approved sheath) for AIC protection in a dead short (internal or external to battery). The short circuit potential for those batteries is enormous and that battery switch and non-class T circuit breaker can fuse shut in this situation. I believe ABYC recommends this and the BMS/controllers do not suffice as protection for this scenario.
I believe those green Valence batteries do indeed have a BMS. I have 13 of them in parallel on my boat. I also have the cables and software to interface to them and can check levels and individual cell voltages. I did this once on a few of the batteries and never went back in again. 2 of my original ones have a flashing red light that has never reset in 3 years now. I have checked their capacity and was near 120 amps on both, so I just let them flash red. And yes, those 460 amp batteries do not fit in an 8D box. I was only able to get 3 group 27 Valence batteries per box at 360 amps times 4 boxes. One other battery sits alone. They have far more than enough umoh to start my engines as they 2000 amp continuous and 4000 amps for 30 seconds. The biggest hurtle was tieing the all to a main buss bar with equal resistance cables to each battery. Longer wire equals bigger wire. This is important so they all discharge and charge at the same rate. Especially needed when just a few batteries are used for starting the diesels. I also have 2209 watts of solar with 5 separate victron charge controllers on each separately facing array. This makes sure each one is at its maximum potential without affecting another. I also installed the Bluetooth battery voltage monitor at the batteries because my charge controllers are a ways away from my batteries with up to 1 volt drop. This made it difficult to set charge voltages without. I also have a 5000 watt Giandel inverter running 24/7 on my boat to be just like home. Although I have the alternators hooked up directly to the batteries, I did change the regulators to 14.0 volt models with temperature compensation so they will throttle back if they start getting hot. These are just cheap $125 alternators putting out 140 max amps with an aftermarket $15 voltage regulator. There is also an inboard 60 amp battery charger, but it is rarely ever used. This system always seems to be a work in progress, but I think I am there now. Perhaps a little bigger panel at the back would be an easy upgrade. Hard to justify $200 for an additional 100 watts though.
Hi Ed, Nice video and great diagrams and illustrations. We did a Lithium Iron Phosphate installation a couple of years ago to replace our lead acid house batteries. (Definitely a game changer especially with 1.4kW of solar). One potentially dangerous thing that I overlooked initially in our design was the the need to upgrade the main battery fuse from an ANL type fuse to a Type T fuse. The reason is that Lithium batteries can have a huge short circuit current compared to lead acid batteries and need a fuse that will not arc over in a high current fault situation. If a fuse AIC rating is not adequate it may ionise/arc over and render the fuse useless. This is determined by the fuse AIC (amps interrupt current) rating . For this reason a Class T fuse is recommended and should be located as close to the battery terminal as possible (ABYC recommends within 7 inches) . I mention this because your diagram shows an ANL type fuse. I realise this may only be illustrative, but thought it worth mentioning just in case. The guru Nigel Calder has an excellent summary on the Boat How To youtube channel which alerted me to my issue.. ua-cam.com/video/CrwT52ehymQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Ax0fjKZ7bEVEzGd9
That's quite the menagerie of batteries, and associated equipment. I bought a Bluetti ac180 last year and charged with an inverter generator whilst on hook last year. This Winter I purchased 2 24vdc 100 amp batteries to be able to recharge my bluetti while out over weekend, hoping to not have to use the genny. You should be able to get the tax credit on those batteries, I'm thinking I can too as in parallel they equate to well over 3k watt hours. But of course now I'm wanting the Bluetti 5000 with 2 batteries. 😂😂😂😂 I just have a 3207 carver aft cabin, but i retrofitted the swimplatform and installed a spiral staircase.
Hi Ed, are there any impacts to your boat insurance of using Lithium batteries on your boat? My insurers here in the UK (running my boat in Europe) are all over the major fire risk of using Lithium batteries. They particularly focus on battery fire detection and even more importantly on Fire Fighting having to use specialised equipment and materials that are specifically designed to fight Lithium battery fires. Are US boat insurers much more relaxed about you using Lithium batteries? Some design ideas over this side of the pond are even looking at systems that in the event of a battery fire, are able to dump all of the batteries into the sea!
I'm intrigued by the MPPT charger in between alternator and batteries. Seems a good workaround to more expensive solutions, googling it i see differing opinions. but no risks I don't think. it should provide the correct voltage for lithium assuming it has a lithium setting, it may be quite low amps? depending on your unit. Just interested in your reasoning when you took that route, i might do the same
Great video and thanks for the Graphic around 13:30's ...quick questions... what balances the power coming from 3 different power sources? you can get power from Alternator through solar controller, solar controller from panels or Inverter/Charger from generator/shore power going to the battery, what controls how much comes from each?
The solar charger determines whether the solar panels should send the power to the batteries or not, depending on their state of charge. Same thing with the inverter and controller from the alternator. They all send power to the busbar, often at the same time, but they can all monitor the state of the batteries and turn themselves off.
17 hrs, very impressing! But I must say that the electrical system looks kind of complicated...? And why carry 2 sets of starter batterys? In my Princess I have one house-bank for instruments, lights, heater and inverter.and one starter battery bank for heavy equipment like starters, windlasses, pasarelle, thrusters etc.
Very impressive system although with 24 volt, 12 volt, 120 volt and did you say 32 volt components also, with maybe four separate battery banks, it is complex! And the serviceable but not totally professional (and unlabeled) arrangement of everything will utterly baffle anyone but you or a professional electrician. And I'm not so sure about the electrician.
What you actually have here, is a nightmare of batteries. Rip the lot out and restart, using transformers, inline fusing and better wiring, bit and bobs of chargers not good either. The Epever Solar Charger is not cooling either, that must be vertical to get an airflow to the cooling fins. Remember fire is something you do not want at sea.....Lithium batteries cannot be extinguished, and need clean and correct installation and use.
YOU NEED TO TOP THE CHARGE OFF ON EACH BATTERY. CLOSE ENOUGH "IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH" . YOU CAN DO IT RIGHT, OR YOU CAN DO A HALF ASSED JOB. YOU DID A HALF ASSED JOB.. DO SOME RESEARCH AND COME BACK TO THIS. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH A 48V SERVER RACK BATTERY SETUP WITH AN ALL IN ONE SOLAR INVERTER. IT WILL CHARGE FROM YOUR GENSET, SOLAR, OR SHORE POWER. 48V IS ALSO MORE EFFICIENT AND REQUIRES SMALLER GUAGE WIRES. YOU WILL GET BETTER BATTERY LIFE AND HAVE A SMALLER FOOTPRINT IN YOUR HOLD.
You sir are obnoxious, there are many ways to be helpful, but yours are not those. Why such a unpleasant reply? Get a life! Cheers, Frederick "Rik" Spector
Not obnoxious. This is an electric fire waiting to happen. Got forbid that radiator shoot’s water all over the connection. Get an audit by a certified marine electrician. You have been lucky so far
NOT OBNOXIOUS AT ALL..ALL I DID WAS SPEAK A FACT ABOUT YOUR SLOPPY AND HAZARDOUS APROACH. THEN OFFER A SOLUTION THAT MAY BE BETTER SUITED.. MORE OUT OF CONCERN FOR YOUR WIFES SAFETY THAN YOU ARE APARENTLY.
@rikspector YOU ARE AN INFLUENCER. THE THINGS YOU PORTRAY IN YOUR VIDEOS MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT OTHERS DO. IF YOU SHOW THEM HOW TO DO THINGS THE WRONG WAY, OR THE HALF ASSED WAY. THAT IS THE IMAGE YOU ARE PORTRAYING OF NOT ONLY YOUR CHANNEL, BUT OF YOURSELF ASWELL.. AND YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE DOING WHAT YOU DID OR SAID TO DO IF SOMETHING WENT WRONG. WHICH MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO BE ON YOUR A GAME AT ALL TIMES.. AND DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY EVERY TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE THAT TYPE OF INFLUENCER, WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD PARK THE CAMERA. AND SHUT DOWN THE CHANNEL.
So impressive! Were also refitting a 65' power catamaran, and its amazing to see how others are tackling these big projects. Thanks for sharing your journey!
I'm lost when it comes to sophisticated electrical systems. The mechanics are more in my comfort zone.
Thank you for taking the time to provide great pictorial images of your set up and setting. it's very informative, and your live test provides great results! I've two comments that I respectfully submit to you. I'm surprised that you're not using battery isolators. I suspect you've researched their use, and your multiple battery set up doesn't require them? I suggest that you install additional circuit breaker/ battery switches at the location of your system. It's way too easy while removing a hot lead from your bus bar to have it land on a ground.... I've done that with my 32 volt system and almost lost my life and my boat when the hot lead fell onto a steel mesh reinforced fuel line--- the mesh instantly turn white hot and diesel burst into flame.
😮😮😮
Much simpler than I thought. You big smart Ed!
Really liked your drawing of your system. I would love to design and implement a Victron system. My fun meter is pegged. Nice job Ed and crew!
I’m in the process of buying a 1981 Cheerman PT38 Euro Sedan Trawler. She has 10 6 volt GC batteries and they’re at end of life. So I’m going to have to do something almost right away. We also have a Zantrex Freedom 30 inverter changer. So I’m currently contemplating a full upgrade to a Victorian Multi plus and lithium. I must say, I like the price better on your batteries and it’s definitely easier to install via the 8D configuration.
Thanks for putting out this video.
Thanks for sharing your install! If you have not already done so I would recommend installing a BlueSea or BEP T-class fuse (20,000 amps at 125 volts) within 7 inches (or can be longer if in an approved sheath) for AIC protection in a dead short (internal or external to battery). The short circuit potential for those batteries is enormous and that battery switch and non-class T circuit breaker can fuse shut in this situation. I believe ABYC recommends this and the BMS/controllers do not suffice as protection for this scenario.
I believe those green Valence batteries do indeed have a BMS. I have 13 of them in parallel on my boat. I also have the cables and software to interface to them and can check levels and individual cell voltages. I did this once on a few of the batteries and never went back in again. 2 of my original ones have a flashing red light that has never reset in 3 years now. I have checked their capacity and was near 120 amps on both, so I just let them flash red. And yes, those 460 amp batteries do not fit in an 8D box. I was only able to get 3 group 27 Valence batteries per box at 360 amps times 4 boxes. One other battery sits alone. They have far more than enough umoh to start my engines as they 2000 amp continuous and 4000 amps for 30 seconds. The biggest hurtle was tieing the all to a main buss bar with equal resistance cables to each battery. Longer wire equals bigger wire. This is important so they all discharge and charge at the same rate. Especially needed when just a few batteries are used for starting the diesels. I also have 2209 watts of solar with 5 separate victron charge controllers on each separately facing array. This makes sure each one is at its maximum potential without affecting another. I also installed the Bluetooth battery voltage monitor at the batteries because my charge controllers are a ways away from my batteries with up to 1 volt drop. This made it difficult to set charge voltages without. I also have a 5000 watt Giandel inverter running 24/7 on my boat to be just like home. Although I have the alternators hooked up directly to the batteries, I did change the regulators to 14.0 volt models with temperature compensation so they will throttle back if they start getting hot. These are just cheap $125 alternators putting out 140 max amps with an aftermarket $15 voltage regulator. There is also an inboard 60 amp battery charger, but it is rarely ever used. This system always seems to be a work in progress, but I think I am there now. Perhaps a little bigger panel at the back would be an easy upgrade. Hard to justify $200 for an additional 100 watts though.
Great explanation, data, and working diagram! Well done. I would like to learn more... 😊
Thanks! It was a long project.
Hi Ed, Nice video and great diagrams and illustrations. We did a Lithium Iron Phosphate installation a couple of years ago to replace our lead acid house batteries. (Definitely a game changer especially with 1.4kW of solar). One potentially dangerous thing that I overlooked initially in our design was the the need to upgrade the main battery fuse from an ANL type fuse to a Type T fuse. The reason is that Lithium batteries can have a huge short circuit current compared to lead acid batteries and need a fuse that will not arc over in a high current fault situation. If a fuse AIC rating is not adequate it may ionise/arc over and render the fuse useless. This is determined by the fuse AIC (amps interrupt current) rating . For this reason a Class T fuse is recommended and should be located as close to the battery terminal as possible (ABYC recommends within 7 inches) . I mention this because your diagram shows an ANL type fuse. I realise this may only be illustrative, but thought it worth mentioning just in case. The guru Nigel Calder has an excellent summary on the Boat How To youtube channel which alerted me to my issue.. ua-cam.com/video/CrwT52ehymQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Ax0fjKZ7bEVEzGd9
Brilliant. I like the real world test, as this is how it impacts your life.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!! great job as usual!!!!!! you are MacGyver!!!!!! CHEERS!
No one should know better than you that it's never easy!
Very interesting. I was wondering how you would save your altenator. Thanks for another great video.
Load teast each battery with a load tester. Anything else is a guess.
That's quite the menagerie of batteries, and associated equipment.
I bought a Bluetti ac180 last year and charged with an inverter generator whilst on hook last year. This Winter I purchased 2 24vdc 100 amp batteries to be able to recharge my bluetti while out over weekend, hoping to not have to use the genny.
You should be able to get the tax credit on those batteries, I'm thinking I can too as in parallel they equate to well over 3k watt hours.
But of course now I'm wanting the Bluetti 5000 with 2 batteries. 😂😂😂😂
I just have a 3207 carver aft cabin, but i retrofitted the swimplatform and installed a spiral staircase.
Great job Ed! Let me know if you need any help.
Hi Ed, are there any impacts to your boat insurance of using Lithium batteries on your boat? My insurers here in the UK (running my boat in Europe) are all over the major fire risk of using Lithium batteries. They particularly focus on battery fire detection and even more importantly on Fire Fighting having to use specialised equipment and materials that are specifically designed to fight Lithium battery fires. Are US boat insurers much more relaxed about you using Lithium batteries? Some design ideas over this side of the pond are even looking at systems that in the event of a battery fire, are able to dump all of the batteries into the sea!
NICE WORK.👍👍
😮 1:41 you might want to look into moving that main power kill switch to a position further away from the main source of a potential fire...
Both battery banks neg should go through the shunt.
I'm intrigued by the MPPT charger in between alternator and batteries. Seems a good workaround to more expensive solutions, googling it i see differing opinions. but no risks I don't think. it should provide the correct voltage for lithium assuming it has a lithium setting, it may be quite low amps? depending on your unit. Just interested in your reasoning when you took that route, i might do the same
Nice work. Now it’s time to put some serious solar on your flybridge hardtop. Prices have come way down.
Great video and thanks for the Graphic around 13:30's ...quick questions... what balances the power coming from 3 different power sources? you can get power from Alternator through solar controller, solar controller from panels or Inverter/Charger from generator/shore power going to the battery, what controls how much comes from each?
The solar charger determines whether the solar panels should send the power to the batteries or not, depending on their state of charge. Same thing with the inverter and controller from the alternator. They all send power to the busbar, often at the same time, but they can all monitor the state of the batteries and turn themselves off.
Did you run Ac on that test Ed? If sovhow many ac were on?
17 hrs, very impressing!
But I must say that the electrical system looks kind of complicated...?
And why carry 2 sets of starter batterys?
In my Princess I have one house-bank for instruments, lights, heater and inverter.and one starter battery bank for heavy equipment like starters, windlasses, pasarelle, thrusters etc.
You can get away with one bank for starting - I did it all last season, but it has two banks as a back up.
I’m thinking 3 hours to install and a lifetime of research to get to that point 😊
I am not two minutes in and I had to grab the popcorn.
🍻
I would sink on day one.
Should I use TurboTax or OLT?
Very impressive system although with 24 volt, 12 volt, 120 volt and did you say 32 volt components also, with maybe four separate battery banks, it is complex! And the serviceable but not totally professional (and unlabeled) arrangement of everything will utterly baffle anyone but you or a professional electrician. And I'm not so sure about the electrician.
This Video on Victron/Epoch may be helpful: ua-cam.com/video/pIXSKpi-TRo/v-deo.html
Ed,
I replied to an unpleasant comment, I tried to be diplomatic, but I wasn't
Sorry,
Rik Spector
What you actually have here, is a nightmare of batteries. Rip the lot out and restart, using transformers, inline fusing and better wiring, bit and bobs of chargers not good either. The Epever Solar Charger is not cooling either, that must be vertical to get an airflow to the cooling fins. Remember fire is something you do not want at sea.....Lithium batteries cannot be extinguished, and need clean and correct installation and use.
First
My electronics engineering background has me cringing
YOU NEED TO TOP THE CHARGE OFF ON EACH BATTERY. CLOSE ENOUGH "IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH" . YOU CAN DO IT RIGHT, OR YOU CAN DO A HALF ASSED JOB. YOU DID A HALF ASSED JOB.. DO SOME RESEARCH AND COME BACK TO THIS.
YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH A 48V SERVER RACK BATTERY SETUP WITH AN ALL IN ONE SOLAR INVERTER. IT WILL CHARGE FROM YOUR GENSET, SOLAR, OR SHORE POWER. 48V IS ALSO MORE EFFICIENT AND REQUIRES SMALLER GUAGE WIRES.
YOU WILL GET BETTER BATTERY LIFE AND HAVE A SMALLER FOOTPRINT IN YOUR HOLD.
You sir are obnoxious, there are many ways to be helpful, but yours are not those.
Why such a unpleasant reply?
Get a life!
Cheers,
Frederick "Rik" Spector
Not obnoxious. This is an electric fire waiting to happen. Got forbid that radiator shoot’s water all over the connection. Get an audit by a certified marine electrician. You have been lucky so far
NOT OBNOXIOUS AT ALL..ALL I DID WAS SPEAK A FACT ABOUT YOUR SLOPPY AND HAZARDOUS APROACH. THEN OFFER A SOLUTION THAT MAY BE BETTER SUITED.. MORE OUT OF CONCERN FOR YOUR WIFES SAFETY THAN YOU ARE APARENTLY.
@rikspector YOU ARE AN INFLUENCER. THE THINGS YOU PORTRAY IN YOUR VIDEOS MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT OTHERS DO. IF YOU SHOW THEM HOW TO DO THINGS THE WRONG WAY, OR THE HALF ASSED WAY. THAT IS THE IMAGE YOU ARE PORTRAYING OF NOT ONLY YOUR CHANNEL, BUT OF YOURSELF ASWELL.. AND YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE DOING WHAT YOU DID OR SAID TO DO IF SOMETHING WENT WRONG.
WHICH MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO BE ON YOUR A GAME AT ALL TIMES.. AND DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY EVERY TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE THAT TYPE OF INFLUENCER, WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD PARK THE CAMERA. AND SHUT DOWN THE CHANNEL.
@ ua-cam.com/video/2r6NbG73qZg/v-deo.htmlsi=GnBpOrwt7gtTDGyo