Totally agree. The book of mormon is NOT another testimony of Jesus Christ, instead it is a testimony of 'another' Jesus and the Apostle Paul warns about teaching another Jesus is 2 Corinthians 4:11 and what they really are in 14 and 15.
@@cooperrichards2434 And that right there is why this church is not led by God, bc if it was, God would have given the leaders foresight to see how this was going to impact the church in the future. And plus, the church should have been on the right side of equality from the beginning, period. God would have been on the right side of this, unapologetically, period.
I was raised by my yt grandparents in the church. One day, when I was talking about the racism I was experiencing at church and school, she told me “well, that’s just something Black people are given to deal with.” Our race is something we’re given to “deal with,” but apparently the racism, which is what makes our race something that has to be “dealt” with isn’t the issue. According to her, we’re struggling because of our skin color, not because of the people who treat us badly because of our skin color. It’s so backwards. Imagine telling a kid who is being bullied that that’s just what “God” gave them to deal with instead of holding the bullies responsible or putting in any effort to change things. It’s a way of saying, “I understand your life is hard, but I don’t want to feel compelled to help, so I’m gonna pretend the issue is you, not the way they treat you.”
I'm so sorry!!! NO ONE deserves to be treated like that!!! As you know it wasn't you, it was those despicable, disgusting racists. YOU are a perfect human being of course. I'm white, born in France, although my family immigrated to Canada decades ago. I come from white, Catholic families on both sides going back to the 1500s, all documented. Well guess what... I had my DNA tested and I have central African, Peruvian, Columbian, Indian ( from India) and Jewish blood!😂😂😂 Granted it's tiny amounts, because it goes back many generation, BUT IT'S THERE! I LOVE IT!!!❤ My ancestors were obviously not racist (I hope) and that warms my heart!!!😅 Diversity is HEALTHY!!! Inbreeding isn't. I'm 64 years young. When I was 5, I told my parents that I wanted to marry their friend who was a Black man. They said, well, he is a very nice guy, but a bit old for you... 😂😂😂 I thank my lucky stars EVERY DAY that I was brought up loving everyone by wonderful parents. We should ALL embrace our roots, but realize that they aren't always as they seem! Take good care of yourself! Isabelle ❤🥰 Victoria BC 👋🇨🇦
@@ristopherobbins I'm 64 years old and Lesbian. I thank my lucky stars EVERY DAY that my parents understood me, understood I was born gay and never ever treated me poorly!!They loved me. Period. I so wish everyone had the same kind of parents!!!
It was! The day I found out how long that ban was in place and how many "prophets" it went through is the day I left the church. I was an active temple working member. I had been in it for 40 years. I brought my parents into the church. I was sure I would never leave it. I read what the church wrote about the ban on the church website, and I was done. The shelf I never knew I had crumbled to dust. I called my bishop and I never went back.
@@debrawallace4542 I respect you for that but you're the exception. Many Mormons were fine with the racism. Even those who left the church never state the racism as a reason.
"people wouldn't have accepted it" You don't mean people. You mean white people specifically. Black people wouldn't have left the church over being included. Black people wouldn't have left the church over having a black prophet. So God prioritizes racist white people being comfortable over literal salvation for his children. Not to mention the pain of being second class in supposedly God's only kingdom on earth.
To suggest God would punish people for something He in fact did is one of the most disturbing ideologies imaginable. How could we in turn say God is good?
You can’t make it make sense because it doesn’t. There’s so much mental gymnastics people have to do to justify it. I just say if it feels wrong in your heart to begin with, there’s a reason for that. And it’s not because I’m not perfect and I don’t understand god. It’s because it *WAS* WRONG
It's the same with sexual abuse in the church. The victim is usually blamed because they wore the wrong clothes, said the wrong thing, wrong place/time, tempted the abuser. The church is all about protecting the abuser/racist.
Yes this! I was 10 years old when this happened and even I was like "What took so long?". This along with polygamy, terrible music, awful underwear, no coffee or liquor, didn't see it as my life path.
"Black Mormons are bizarre. I don’t get it." What is to get? Each person makes a choice based on factors important to that person. You seem to think, as does Joe Biden, that all blacks everywhere should, do and must think exactly the same ways. Good heavens. According to Wikipedia, Nigerians speak 300 languages. Being "black" predicts almost nothing.
They’re the same group in mindset of blacks that get a little bit of success and then act colorists (treating fellow blacks poorly the darker they are for white acceptance. The acceptance is what is driving them more than anything.
Growing up Mormon as a child in the 70's, I had no idea that black folks didn't have those rights until the big announcement in 1978! I was absolutely shocked. 😢
More secrecy. A church with constant changes, coverups & secrets is just a building with people in it, & it will not stand. WE are the “church,” God’s people. You can have church without a physical building. God’s Word is not like a company’s procedure. It doesn’t change because God’s Word is Truth; & therefore needs no updating, & no policy or scripture changes. God is love, & He is the same, yesterday, today, & always! What a Promise🙌🏼- 1 of many!!!
They still have their tax exempt statis. That's how they have accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars they've been hiding from the membership of the Church for fear that if the members knew, they'd stop giving them their money. And the priesthood ban ended in 1978.
That is not true... that is another bigoted talking point from another ignorant anti Mormon. Try actually reading up on this stuff for once. Your library has books not written by the Baptist Church or Jehovah's Witnesses trying to convince you of Mormon Cult stuff. But, when you read the actual books covering the topic from Oxford, Harvard, Etc.. You will see that the Church never cared about race either way. Literally in the very beginning of the church, back in 1840, Joseph Smith was running for President of the United States and wanted to Free the SLAVES because he had so many good close black friends in his town. It actually cost him the election. The USA was too racist to elect Joseph Smith bc he had too much respect for Blacks, and he would have helped them succeed 25 years before the civil war. That is a well known fact.
I am a Black convert to the Church. When I had to change Ward's I felt the racism. I loved the Church so much at 1st. Not this go round. Woke up quick. Born & Baptised Methodist, dad Baptist & I grew up in Catholic school . Nothing can teach me about the Bible that I didn't learn from King James.
"Mormons believed that black skin was the mark of Caine." Some do, some don't. Whatever it was, it was something that was immediately visible and served as a *protection* for Cain and his descendants.
@@thomasmaughan4798 in the book of Adam and Eve, there is a clear description of the mark. Caine was asked to repent and fast himself to death for forgiveness. He refused and so he was afflicted with the shakes. He was given a nervous palsy so that he could know no rest, anywhere. He was also cursed with mental illness. The description sounds like schizophrenia to me. The mark of Caine is mental illness and sexual perversion. It didn't protect him. He had a favorite grandson who was blind with age who somehow could bring him peace for a few moments. The grandson had a grandson who was tasked with herding the goats but he kept getting graped. That's just how the caineites do. The only one who cared was his blind grandfather. The boy wasn't strong enough for a bow so the grandfather would shoot where the boy pointed him. You can see where this is going. Caine was accidentally murdered by his closest family.
That's a common misconception made by twisting the words of the actual belief. We have many black members including some in the general authority. In fact speakers need a translator to understand because they don't speak english.
Because the women don't have the priesthood and therefore weren't barred from anything. Womens rights were for work and for voting, which had nothing to do with the church. As for LGBTQ, it openly disagrees with gods structure of family, the same as other sins would be. But other parts of lgbtq aren't as direct. The church has practically no outspoken stance on transgender but does for gay.
Ah yes, of course God simply had his marketing cap on at the time. Too bad he didn’t run the whole polygamy/ trafficking European women idea through a focus group before it made the church *slightly* unacceptable to the whole world. But he def nailed it with the “But At Least We’re Racist” outreach campaign.
When I brought this up, I was told that they were the first church to welcome black people, and it was only in place because of the times. I was thinking to myself what a crock of sh/t 🤣
A truly loving god wouldnt put the optics of their 'one true church' over treating an entire section of the children they claim to love as second class citizens. Why wouldnt a church lead by an all knowing, all loving being be the one to lead the charge for human rights?
I was in the temple when the Priesthood was given to black people. The Temple President stated it was their black ancestors praying for them, so they could be sealed to their posterity...
By this logic, gawd really screwed up with the whole judaism thing, then, because it received a LOT of backlash from "people". But he went ahead and did it anyways. Just because he could.
John Dehlin, I love you bro! Seriously, I do. I am a fan of your earliest apologetic podcasts, but I continue to follow you now just to hear "the best" arguments against the LDS faith. All that said, this is a tired and overused criticism - as if there is only one or two ways to view this issue. The ban was because Brigham Young was a bigot. Period. And that in LDS doctrine the Lord can use even the most flawed men/women to do HIs work. There's a much more fleshed out discussion behind this, which I'd love to have sometime/anytime. Keep up the "good" work!
@@amytheshihtzumom My comment was just from this clip only. It came up on my feed of shorts based on how ofter I do watch Mormon Stories, which is at minimum a few times a week, and at most a few in a day. I'll try to go watch the entire podcast. It's also possible that I already have but I'll check and see if there's anything there that would warrant any additional comment. Thanks!
Good call. The LDS church only conforms when there is worldly pressure. Lol so fundamental. But if i recall...the founding prophet Joseph Smith reacted the same in all his "prophetic revelations" in the D and C. Also polygamy too.
" The LDS church only conforms when there is worldly pressure. " That is correct. The mission of the church must proceed and that means from time to time conforming to local laws.
@thomasmaughan4798 even when the law exists and they continue polygamy and treasure hunting to fraud people when it was illegal oh and to unlawfully spend tithing etc. It's a revolving door of false teachings.
After watching the show Under the Banner of Heaven, I have been reading and researching about the Mormon church. Honestly, it is so disturbing to me being and I can't understand it. My daughter has known and gone to school with a boy for the last 14 years. He is black and was adopted by a white mormon family, which I just found out that they're mormon a few years ago. I feel so sorry for this kid because of things he's told my daughter about the church and how he feels uncomfortable there and how people look at him and his little brother who is also black and adopted. It honestly breaks my heart, and they have and always will hold a special place in my heart. I wonder why mormon families adopt kids of color? What is their purpose?
The sad thing is, that the Black people, instead of complaining that the Mormons wouldn’t let them join, should’ve taken that as a sign from their God, that this is not the right place for them. Just because something is exclusive, doesn’t mean that you should want to join.if they don’t want you, find someone who does. Sad.
In hindsight the doctrine should have liberated and equalized black people in the 1860s and not wait till the 1980s Regardless, bitterness and revenge can literally poison the heart and mind and body as badly as suffered abuse or wrong.
I understand that you believe Mormonism is the true church if you understood Greek and Hebrew you would see how wrong you are and how the interpretation is so far off the beaten path of what the gospel truly says. Jesus said himself no marriage in heaven you cannot become a god there is one God All through the Bible it says there is one God. You will not be exalted to godhood read the Bible put aside all these other man-made books Joseph Smith was not a true prophet he was a liar not a godly Man and he was mentally ill
God IS love, so essentially you are right. Please use ONLY the Bible, God’s Word, to learn about exaltation, priesthood, etc. (& anything else, for that matter). No man or woman of any race, color… will become gods, not here, nor in eternity. God is God & we are not, nor will we ever be. Praise His Holy Name for this & for so many, MANY blessings! 🙌🏼
People do not understand god at all. Just because god is all knowing doesn't mean he changes things he says. In the very scriptures god will say something, and then tell the prophet to change that thing. People laugh at the prophet from what they know to be true. God can have something in mind and pave the way for it. For example Say i want to build a road. If my boss says to cut those trees down, does it mean we are a lumber company not building a road? Secondly humans are humans. God is against slavery and racism but slavery also existed in jesus' time. Did jesus' fight to free the slaves there? No. Does that mean jesus is okay with slaves? No. In part that's because slaves were more like people working off debts, but even actual slaves existed too. The church was forming people were a bit misguided. But it was made open to all in the end.
When the culture has to influence religious organization to change, the organization is not of God. I appreciate this woman expressing that God did not desire the rejection of any people.
If god made exceptions so people didn't turn away from the church there wouldn't be a homophobia problem in the church. How many lgbtq people turned away? How many black people either turned away or didn't join because of racism? Why prioritise the exaltation of racists over black people ? Why prioritise the exaltation of homophobes over queer people?
@chlyri to be living doesn't mean to shift and change your mind for a suppedly all-knowing being. That only makes sense for a human who would be bound by the society in which they live and current understandings of issues.
"How many lgbtq people turned away?" I have no idea. Would an accurate number help in some way? At any rate, churches that embrace sinful behavior are numerous. I am PRO CHOICE in this regard. Find a church you like, or join none of them if none are to your liking. Should mine change and start embracing sin, then *I* will be the leaver.
If the doctrine says don't be prejudiced and the prophet says to do something, then the prophet would just have to say, "Don't be prejudiced." The mormon people follow him blindly.
I am not mormon but over the years I've been approached often by them. Can someone tell me what would make them drawn to me if there's such a small population of black people in the mormon church? I never understood why.
God is an asshole. I'm 64 years old, I am also an atheist. If god was real, s/he would be the nastiest, cruelest, most stupid, most selfish thing in the Universe. In the Bible, Satan killed 10 people and only because god told him to. God on the other hand, wiped out the entire planet, humans, fauna and flora in the flood... Who is the bigger a..hole???
@@rOnda88You do realize that statistically speaking more atheists have read the Bible or BOM cover to cover than active members of Mormonism or Christianity? That’s why we left, because we realized how F’ed up and ridiculous it is.
"I thought God could do anything." That is a typical evangelical Christian belief. However, some limitations exist (in my opinion) such as God cannot do things that cannot be done. There's also rather a lot that apparently he won't do, but perhaps has the power; such as interfering with your free agency.
"So God didn’t care about how black people felt about it? " Very little is written about whether God cares about *anyone's* feelings! What matters is what you DO.
I also like to add that Brigham Young was a contemporary of Abraham Lincoln. Most members love and respect Lincoln and yet his message was in direct opposition to “God’s” prophet at the time. It is a hard thing for most of my Mormon family to consider that the world was headed in the right direction while the church absolutely wasn’t.
Every church has its racism, not just Mormons. I fully believe that if "the church" stopped being racist, then the rest of the world would become more accepting of our differences and beliefs, and not just racism.
A loving God isn't racist. It's the wickedness of men that brings curses upon themselves. It then behooves them to live their best lives to earn an eternal reward. To many people simply come up with excuses to reject the gospel -- only to limit their own progress. Choices have consequences.
Indeed. God isn't racist. Men can be. God in the scripture wasn't racist. God in the scriptures said judge not. We do these things anyway. People aren't perfect. The matter of racism in the churches history is much less bad than people make it out to be. Initially it was openly so, but toward the end of josephs life he openly denied slavery as a good practice. In the first few decades some blacks did actually recieve these ordinances. A bit later some leaders closed it off. It was a messy time for the church in general. But then it was said to open to all in the future again and it did. Men can be corrupted. Men can make mistakes. But mens mistakes are not gods mistakes.
If I have my history correct, President Young for political reasons made Utah a slave state, and they couldn’t be one of the slaves had the priesthood (I know it’s fricken weird, and I’m glad it was done away with), and also when the ban FIRST began, racial equality was very controversial, and Brigham was trying to protect the saints as much as he can from the persecution and mob violence that seemed to follow them, plus Brigham Young said that there would be a day when the blacks did have the priesthood, and prophets since have been seeking to end the practice, and it did end 46 years ago (which I acknowledge is sad) when the church was growing and spreading to other countries. And while it’s easy to get hung up on past mistakes, I think it’s important to remember that we have repented of that sin and grown as a church. Also, I’ve heard the complaint that the church lifted the ban because the internet was getting popular, and they didn’t want the world to know about their racism, but the ban was lifted in 1978, and the internet didn’t go public until 1993 fifteen years later, and didn’t get popular until 1995. Please let me know if I need to clarify myself or add anything, and please have a great week. God bless
As a convert who is also black the delay on removing the Preisthood ban until as late in history as it was is unfortunate. I can explain away up to late 1800s becuase slavery was literally just ending and idea of white leaders giving the Priesthood to people who were slaves just basically the day before is understandable, but yes, it's still wrong. And listen for anyone that feels bad about this thinks it was only the Mormon church doing this know that the Methodist Church literally fought to free the slaves in the South because it the Christian thing to do but the moment we were free they closed their doors in droves at the idea of having to be in the same pew with blacks, let alone at a higher level like in the Temple. Thats the whole reason the AME Church exist. So lets stand behind the living gospel on this one issue, call racism at this time period when literally most people were racist against blacks for what it is, and let us acknowledge what The Church is doing in Africa. Nigeria, The Congo, and others are getting lit up with Temples. Clearly things have changed.
1 JOHN 4:20 If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
I come here from time to time to see if anyone has anything good to say. Not yet, but perhaps I missed something. My bishop in Maryland was black (and probably still is; just no longer my bishop) and he was the best. Right up there with my bishop that was Japanese (but living in Hawaii). When "color" becomes worth talking about you have just become racist.
The children of Israel had the Melchizidek priesthoof withheld, so yes God can withold blessings people are not ready. God is not obligated to grant every blessing immediately. He loves us so much he gives us those blessings as we are able to bear them in every sense.
Even when approaching this as a thought experiment from a conservative religious political viewpoint that emphasizes the power of the nuclear family, the Mormon Church historically denied black families the rights and recognitions afforded to those basic matters. This includes the inability to hold basic church positions or to be fully integrated members or being recognized as an eternal family. They robbed from them their family identity. Could this exclusion have contributed to the higher rate of single motherhood in black communities today? Even from a staunch conservative perspective, isn't it possible that some blame lies with the Mormon Church's racist beliefs? Is the Mormon Church responsible for deconstructing Black American nuclear families? 🤔
It would be wonderful if the Church were on the cutting edge of positive societal change, but since people aren’t perfect I could accept a slower, methodical “gatekeeping” approach. What I can’t accept as divine manifestation is the Church’s history of being g dragged along kicking and screaming after extended retrenchment.
The problem isn't era, but doctrinal. When the doctrine is that black people got their skin color by being on Satan's side in a cosmic war, what do you expect?
Seems like this sister and brother have not studied the Bible thoroughly ! If they had they would know that God has withheld certain blessings from His Children .... e.g. The gentiles were not preached the gospel or were not able to receive gospel blessings or ordinances until after Christ's death and resurrection. Also ..even within the entire House of Israel out of 12 Tribes...only the Tribe of Levi was authorized to hold the Priesthood and perform ordinances within the Temple and Tabernacle ? These are just two examples...with plenty more within the pages of the Bible ! We are no one to say what God would do or not do...His thoughts are npt our thoughts... I met Helvecio Martins...1st General Authority 70 of African descent (Brazil) ..baptizrd way before the priesthood and temple blessings were given to all worthy males ....And I had the blessing of hearing his testimony 1st hand of his conversion and faith... If anyone had reason to doubt ...it would be him...but, like he told those of us present... He knew this church was true and he could never deny what he knew what God had revealed to him to be true....
Mosiah 4:9 9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend. Please don't try to put yourself above God !
So you believe you are a hairless monke- got it y ?? If there is no God as you say...then we are just an accidental and insignificant speck of dust walking on a rotating rock suspended in this vast an ever expanding infinite realm called space. And since we are an accident as you say,,,then there is no real purpose for our existence ...no real purpose to our life because according to you we will die and become nothing ...! So if there is no real purpose to our existence and to our life then why worry about other people...why worry about racism, hatred, war, crime, evil, poverty, sickness, disease...etc etc etc ...according to you it really doesnt matter because we are just accidents and all life is insignificant and of no true value or purpose !! But guess what...there is a God...there is a purpose to life...and this life is not the end !
@@2ba-lamanite351 ah, the well known religious taking point: if no god, why be good? because we recognize that we have an impact on other people and don't want to hurt them. we don't need belief in an unproven racist and immature entity. it's sad that you do.
Black people have never (so far as I know) been prevented from baptism. There was a time when black people were not ordained to the priesthood . This seems to be true in ancient times as well. It is wonderful that all blessings and their corresponding responsibilities are extended to black people, and dark brown; there may be a shade of light brown that is not included but you'd have to use a spectrum analyzer to figure out whether you are worthy of the priesthood. Yeah, okay, that part is fictional but y'all seem to be WAY too worried about color.
So rather than teach people to not be racist, God decided to wait. The idiocy of the God the Mormon church paints is remarkable. For example, If God and Satan reconciled, who would run Hell? Yeah, they can't reconcile.
If you had one drop of negro blood you could not hold the priesthood in the Mormon church. And they didn't believe in interracial marriage so a white man could not marry a black woman because of whatever children they had the children would have negro blood.
It is hard to come to terms with the racism surrounding religion in general. I don't condone it, but I still can't explain it. But, if your criteria for joining a Christian sect is that they never adopted racist policies.You will not be able to join a Christian sect anywhere. (Or any other religious sect for that matter) When God decided that the jews were a chosen people and that salvation was only available to the jews and no one else on the planet. That's racist. When God ordered the ethnic cleansing of the promised land after the children of israel returned from Egypt. That's racist. God is a racist? Or is it that we just don't understand God? Sounds like it's pretty easy to point the finger at those who believe something when you no longer believe anything. Listen for the sound of the grinding axe.
"god" has nothing to do with racism and exclusion. However, I'm confident that "the only true church" happily accepted the tithes and offerings of Black congregants.
I feel that if you’re so invested and worried about the situation or past situation… what are you doing to solve the matter? Everyone brings up issues but never how to solve it in a sense because it’s just content that you wanna have. You’re not in it for nobody but yourself glory and views on opinions that shake up controversy!! It’s easy to say what needs to be done but doing what needs to be done is what most podcast lack. So right on for the awareness but at the same time the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is doing things versus just saying things. But I’ll hear yeah but they were this, they were that? Blah blah blah.. the leaders of the church past and present our still man just like David who was an adulterer and then set up Bathsheebas husband to die in war… everyone in the Bible beside Jesus had faults and to point just on certain Men who had faults is wrong to do.
"If god is loving he isn’t the god of Mormonism" Yet another all-knowing prophet of God writes wisdom (or not) on this page. How exactly do you define "loving" in this context?
Nope !! Joseph gave black men the priesthood!! Women also gave blessings and healing. Old and modern Prophets are men and make bad decisions based on their view. There are two types of prophesy. Conditional and unconditional. The church has sacrificed much because of this poor decision. Leaders were not inspired and made a mistake. They caused great harm.
There were blacks in the church that Joseph Smith gave them the priesthood. But in Utah Brigham Young was a hater. We know Brigham Young never had one prophecy. Aren't prophets supposed prophesy? Church makes no sense after Joseph death.
Lotta victim blaming in the comments. Go listen to the full episodes and not just the clips and learn some context. Maybe you will be granted helpful insight and empathy. If this podcast does anything imo, it's deconstructing the lived experience of people who have survived and contextualizing how people get trapped and why leaving is impossible or difficult for many.
Fun fact, did you know that the prophet Joseph Smith did not deny the priesthood given to blacks? Also, Even after 1852, at least two black Latter-day Saints continued to hold the priesthood. When one of these men, Elijah Abel, petitioned to receive his temple endowment in 1879, his request was denied. Jane Manning James, a faithful black member who crossed the plains and lived in Salt Lake City until her death in 1908, similarly asked to enter the temple; she was allowed to perform baptisms for the dead for her ancestors but was not allowed to participate in other ordinances.
Watch the entire episode on our UA-cam channel! Episode 1821
Totally agree. The book of mormon is NOT another testimony of Jesus Christ, instead it is a testimony of 'another' Jesus and the Apostle Paul warns about teaching another Jesus is 2 Corinthians 4:11 and what they really are in 14 and 15.
Turns out racists always have an easy time coming up with racist excuses for racism.
The church didn’t say this excuse and there’s a reason they now can it’s called a mistake and quite a common one for other religions
@@cooperrichards2434What??😂😂 Now we making excuses and trying to justify making excuses... alrighty
@@NopeUghUghAbsolutelyNot it’s not an excuse because it’s true
@@cooperrichards2434 Ew to you. Ew
@@cooperrichards2434 And that right there is why this church is not led by God, bc if it was, God would have given the leaders foresight to see how this was going to impact the church in the future. And plus, the church should have been on the right side of equality from the beginning, period. God would have been on the right side of this, unapologetically, period.
I was raised by my yt grandparents in the church. One day, when I was talking about the racism I was experiencing at church and school, she told me “well, that’s just something Black people are given to deal with.” Our race is something we’re given to “deal with,” but apparently the racism, which is what makes our race something that has to be “dealt” with isn’t the issue. According to her, we’re struggling because of our skin color, not because of the people who treat us badly because of our skin color.
It’s so backwards. Imagine telling a kid who is being bullied that that’s just what “God” gave them to deal with instead of holding the bullies responsible or putting in any effort to change things. It’s a way of saying, “I understand your life is hard, but I don’t want to feel compelled to help, so I’m gonna pretend the issue is you, not the way they treat you.”
Definitely agree 100% that’s not how problems get solved people need to take responsibility
Don’t they say this to the gays too. Like he gave them the affliction and that If they ignore it they will be healed in the next life? It’s effed.
I'm so sorry!!!
NO ONE deserves to be treated like that!!!
As you know it wasn't you, it was those despicable, disgusting racists.
YOU are a perfect human being of course.
I'm white, born in France, although my family immigrated to Canada decades ago.
I come from white, Catholic families on both sides going back to the 1500s, all documented.
Well guess what...
I had my DNA tested and I have central African, Peruvian, Columbian, Indian ( from India) and Jewish blood!😂😂😂
Granted it's tiny amounts, because it goes back many generation, BUT IT'S THERE!
I LOVE IT!!!❤
My ancestors were obviously not racist (I hope) and that warms my heart!!!😅
Diversity is HEALTHY!!!
Inbreeding isn't.
I'm 64 years young. When I was 5, I told my parents that I wanted to marry their friend who was a Black man.
They said, well, he is a very nice guy, but a bit old for you...
😂😂😂
I thank my lucky stars EVERY DAY that I was brought up loving everyone by wonderful parents.
We should ALL embrace our roots, but realize that they aren't always as they seem!
Take good care of yourself!
Isabelle ❤🥰
Victoria BC 👋🇨🇦
@@ristopherobbins
I'm 64 years old and Lesbian.
I thank my lucky stars EVERY DAY that my parents understood me, understood I was born gay and never ever treated me poorly!!They loved me. Period.
I so wish everyone had the same kind of parents!!!
Agreed
That fact alone should convince you to leave the Mormon Church yesterday.
They all share the same belief system.
It was! The day I found out how long that ban was in place and how many "prophets" it went through is the day I left the church. I was an active temple working member. I had been in it for 40 years. I brought my parents into the church. I was sure I would never leave it. I read what the church wrote about the ban on the church website, and I was done. The shelf I never knew I had crumbled to dust. I called my bishop and I never went back.
@@debrawallace4542 I respect you for that but you're the exception. Many Mormons were fine with the racism. Even those who left the church never state the racism as a reason.
Why do black peoples want to go to a church that doesn’t want you. I would stay at home and read my bible and praise the Lord there.
"people wouldn't have accepted it"
You don't mean people. You mean white people specifically. Black people wouldn't have left the church over being included. Black people wouldn't have left the church over having a black prophet. So God prioritizes racist white people being comfortable over literal salvation for his children. Not to mention the pain of being second class in supposedly God's only kingdom on earth.
That makes God a racist.
Yes. This is the only and essential point, and it hardly ever gets said this clearly, because...white privilege creates white blind spots. Well said!
@@Mushroomstops That makes their fake Mormon god racist.
GOD is not lds.
This exactly.
To suggest God would punish people for something He in fact did is one of the most disturbing ideologies imaginable. How could we in turn say God is good?
What do you expect from cults.
You can’t make it make sense because it doesn’t. There’s so much mental gymnastics people have to do to justify it. I just say if it feels wrong in your heart to begin with, there’s a reason for that. And it’s not because I’m not perfect and I don’t understand god. It’s because it *WAS* WRONG
It's the same with sexual abuse in the church. The victim is usually blamed because they wore the wrong clothes, said the wrong thing, wrong place/time, tempted the abuser.
The church is all about protecting the abuser/racist.
Yes this! I was 10 years old when this happened and even I was like "What took so long?". This along with polygamy, terrible music, awful underwear, no coffee or liquor, didn't see it as my life path.
Yet I'm in the wrong for questioning the stupidity... lol
Black Mormons are bizarre. I don’t get it.
"Black Mormons are bizarre. I don’t get it."
What is to get? Each person makes a choice based on factors important to that person. You seem to think, as does Joe Biden, that all blacks everywhere should, do and must think exactly the same ways. Good heavens. According to Wikipedia, Nigerians speak 300 languages. Being "black" predicts almost nothing.
They’re the same group in mindset of blacks that get a little bit of success and then act colorists (treating fellow blacks poorly the darker they are for white acceptance.
The acceptance is what is driving them more than anything.
Witness of the Book of Mormon is my guess. Thats one big reason I am still a member.
Actually those devils were doing black folk a hugh favor, keeping you away from the doctrine of Satan; was Almighty God's way of saving us.
Exactly, I have no idea why blacks continue to attend a satanic place founded by the devil’s descendant
Growing up Mormon as a child in the 70's, I had no idea that black folks didn't have those rights until the big announcement in 1978! I was absolutely shocked. 😢
More secrecy. A church with constant changes, coverups & secrets is just a building with people in it, & it will not stand. WE are the “church,” God’s people. You can have church without a physical building.
God’s Word is not like a company’s procedure. It doesn’t change because God’s Word is Truth; & therefore needs no updating, & no policy or scripture changes. God is love, & He is the same, yesterday, today, & always! What a Promise🙌🏼- 1 of many!!!
@@rOnda88 Amen. The Bible is the True Word of God. The God of the Bible does not change!
The day before the Mormons lost their TAX EXEMPT status in the 90's. The Mormon president had a vision to let blacks join.....!?! Convenient 😅
Really!
Wow...
Yeah that was convenient... bunch of a...holes...
smfh
👋🇨🇦
They still have their tax exempt statis. That's how they have accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars they've been hiding from the membership of the Church for fear that if the members knew, they'd stop giving them their money. And the priesthood ban ended in 1978.
That is not true... that is another bigoted talking point from another ignorant anti Mormon. Try actually reading up on this stuff for once. Your library has books not written by the Baptist Church or Jehovah's Witnesses trying to convince you of Mormon Cult stuff. But, when you read the actual books covering the topic from Oxford, Harvard, Etc.. You will see that the Church never cared about race either way. Literally in the very beginning of the church, back in 1840, Joseph Smith was running for President of the United States and wanted to Free the SLAVES because he had so many good close black friends in his town. It actually cost him the election. The USA was too racist to elect Joseph Smith bc he had too much respect for Blacks, and he would have helped them succeed 25 years before the civil war. That is a well known fact.
They were going to loose it. And it was 78 not 90s.
BYU was also in danger of losing any and all Federal grants and scholarships for their students.
I am a Black convert to the Church. When I had to change Ward's I felt the racism. I loved the Church so much at 1st. Not this go round. Woke up quick. Born & Baptised Methodist, dad Baptist & I grew up in Catholic school . Nothing can teach me about the Bible that I didn't learn from King James.
They didn't finish the thought. Mormons believed that black skin was the mark of Caine.
"Mormons believed that black skin was the mark of Caine."
Some do, some don't. Whatever it was, it was something that was immediately visible and served as a *protection* for Cain and his descendants.
@@thomasmaughan4798 in the book of Adam and Eve, there is a clear description of the mark. Caine was asked to repent and fast himself to death for forgiveness. He refused and so he was afflicted with the shakes. He was given a nervous palsy so that he could know no rest, anywhere. He was also cursed with mental illness. The description sounds like schizophrenia to me. The mark of Caine is mental illness and sexual perversion. It didn't protect him. He had a favorite grandson who was blind with age who somehow could bring him peace for a few moments. The grandson had a grandson who was tasked with herding the goats but he kept getting graped. That's just how the caineites do. The only one who cared was his blind grandfather. The boy wasn't strong enough for a bow so the grandfather would shoot where the boy pointed him. You can see where this is going. Caine was accidentally murdered by his closest family.
That's a common misconception made by twisting the words of the actual belief.
We have many black members including some in the general authority. In fact speakers need a translator to understand because they don't speak english.
About 10 years ago I started responding with “Bullshit!” “I’ve been bullshitted enough, it’s the last thing any of us need now.”
If God was OK with many members not receiving Priesthood and Temple ordinances for sk long, maybe those things are nit as important as church says? 🤔
"God" creator/ source / love ... never ever !!!!!!!created churches, mosques, cathedrals, temple, etc. See them as social village clubs.
Funny how there’s never this concern about the “world not being ready” when it comes to LGBTQ issues or women’s rights. 🤔
Because the women don't have the priesthood and therefore weren't barred from anything. Womens rights were for work and for voting, which had nothing to do with the church.
As for LGBTQ, it openly disagrees with gods structure of family, the same as other sins would be. But other parts of lgbtq aren't as direct. The church has practically no outspoken stance on transgender but does for gay.
Ah yes, of course God simply had his marketing cap on at the time. Too bad he didn’t run the whole polygamy/ trafficking European women idea through a focus group before it made the church *slightly* unacceptable to the whole world. But he def nailed it with the “But At Least We’re Racist” outreach campaign.
And…A loving god would never separate families in heaven because they didn’t do the super secret ceremony in a building on earth. Just ridiculous.
When I brought this up, I was told that they were the first church to welcome black people, and it was only in place because of the times. I was thinking to myself what a crock of sh/t 🤣
A truly loving god wouldnt put the optics of their 'one true church' over treating an entire section of the children they claim to love as second class citizens.
Why wouldnt a church lead by an all knowing, all loving being be the one to lead the charge for human rights?
“They were racist AT THE TIME”😏
I was in the temple when the Priesthood was given to black people. The Temple President stated it was their black ancestors praying for them, so they could be sealed to their posterity...
By this logic, gawd really screwed up with the whole judaism thing, then, because it received a LOT of backlash from "people". But he went ahead and did it anyways. Just because he could.
Join a cult and you’ll experience cult like behavior. Wake up!
Amen
John Dehlin, I love you bro! Seriously, I do. I am a fan of your earliest apologetic podcasts, but I continue to follow you now just to hear "the best" arguments against the LDS faith. All that said, this is a tired and overused criticism - as if there is only one or two ways to view this issue. The ban was because Brigham Young was a bigot. Period. And that in LDS doctrine the Lord can use even the most flawed men/women to do HIs work. There's a much more fleshed out discussion behind this, which I'd love to have sometime/anytime. Keep up the "good" work!
Did you watch the entire episode, or is your comment just based on this little clip from it?
@@amytheshihtzumom My comment was just from this clip only. It came up on my feed of shorts based on how ofter I do watch Mormon Stories, which is at minimum a few times a week, and at most a few in a day. I'll try to go watch the entire podcast. It's also possible that I already have but I'll check and see if there's anything there that would warrant any additional comment. Thanks!
So is Jesus in control of his church or racist bigoted men?
You plainly follow the tenants of the church. However you're also plainly open minded which is very refreshing. Kudos to you brother.
So God can do all, cute all, except racism…OK
They have no excuse for their racism. God isn't racist , or Mormon.
Don't blame Holy GOD for foolish racist people. GOD loves all His creation
Good call. The LDS church only conforms when there is worldly pressure. Lol so fundamental. But if i recall...the founding prophet Joseph Smith reacted the same in all his "prophetic revelations" in the D and C. Also polygamy too.
" The LDS church only conforms when there is worldly pressure. "
That is correct. The mission of the church must proceed and that means from time to time conforming to local laws.
@thomasmaughan4798 even when the law exists and they continue polygamy and treasure hunting to fraud people when it was illegal oh and to unlawfully spend tithing etc. It's a revolving door of false teachings.
After watching the show Under the Banner of Heaven, I have been reading and researching about the Mormon church. Honestly, it is so disturbing to me being and I can't understand it. My daughter has known and gone to school with a boy for the last 14 years. He is black and was adopted by a white mormon family, which I just found out that they're mormon a few years ago. I feel so sorry for this kid because of things he's told my daughter about the church and how he feels uncomfortable there and how people look at him and his little brother who is also black and adopted. It honestly breaks my heart, and they have and always will hold a special place in my heart. I wonder why mormon families adopt kids of color? What is their purpose?
The sad thing is, that the Black people, instead of complaining that the Mormons wouldn’t let them join, should’ve taken that as a sign from their God, that this is not the right place for them. Just because something is exclusive, doesn’t mean that you should want to join.if they don’t want you, find someone who does. Sad.
That’s why I left this false church
In hindsight the doctrine should have liberated and equalized black people in the 1860s and not wait till the 1980s
Regardless, bitterness and revenge can literally poison the heart and mind and body as badly as suffered abuse or wrong.
We are all God’s children! ❤
I understand that you believe Mormonism is the true church if you understood Greek and Hebrew you would see how wrong you are and how the interpretation is so far off the beaten path of what the gospel truly says. Jesus said himself no marriage in heaven you cannot become a god there is one God All through the Bible it says there is one God. You will not be exalted to godhood read the Bible put aside all these other man-made books Joseph Smith was not a true prophet he was a liar not a godly Man and he was mentally ill
Also, was the world ready for much of ANYTHING, when it was pivotal? Christ coming, for instance? But it never stopped God.
Your right.❤
God IS love, so essentially you are right. Please use ONLY the Bible, God’s Word, to learn about exaltation, priesthood, etc. (& anything else, for that matter).
No man or woman of any race, color… will become gods, not here, nor in eternity.
God is God & we are not, nor will we ever be. Praise His Holy Name for this & for so many, MANY blessings! 🙌🏼
If God was prejudice before 1978 why would he not be prejudice now? The Bible says God does not change
People do not understand god at all.
Just because god is all knowing doesn't mean he changes things he says. In the very scriptures god will say something, and then tell the prophet to change that thing. People laugh at the prophet from what they know to be true.
God can have something in mind and pave the way for it. For example
Say i want to build a road. If my boss says to cut those trees down, does it mean we are a lumber company not building a road?
Secondly humans are humans. God is against slavery and racism but slavery also existed in jesus' time. Did jesus' fight to free the slaves there? No. Does that mean jesus is okay with slaves? No.
In part that's because slaves were more like people working off debts, but even actual slaves existed too. The church was forming people were a bit misguided. But it was made open to all in the end.
When the culture has to influence religious organization to change, the organization is not of God.
I appreciate this woman expressing that God did not desire the rejection of any people.
If god made exceptions so people didn't turn away from the church there wouldn't be a homophobia problem in the church. How many lgbtq people turned away? How many black people either turned away or didn't join because of racism? Why prioritise the exaltation of racists over black people ? Why prioritise the exaltation of homophobes over queer people?
that's not really making exceptions. it's just being a living god as they claim he is.
@chlyri to be living doesn't mean to shift and change your mind for a suppedly all-knowing being. That only makes sense for a human who would be bound by the society in which they live and current understandings of issues.
"How many lgbtq people turned away?"
I have no idea. Would an accurate number help in some way? At any rate, churches that embrace sinful behavior are numerous. I am PRO CHOICE in this regard. Find a church you like, or join none of them if none are to your liking. Should mine change and start embracing sin, then *I* will be the leaver.
@@kristalcampbell3650 oh, i agree with the fundamental point. i'm just saying that these weren't exceptions, they were full changes.
@@thomasmaughan4798 pro choice... in religion. so you feel you have the right to be a hateful bigot that hurts people and denies equality?
Exactlyyy. There is no excuse.
Very well said!
If the doctrine says don't be prejudiced and the prophet says to do something, then the prophet would just have to say, "Don't be prejudiced." The mormon people follow him blindly.
at least until he says something they don't like. they questioned him when he made the correct call to tell them to follow covid guidelines.
I am prejudiced about a great many things and so are you. I choose the movies I watch and the ice cream I eat (for starters).
I am not mormon but over the years I've been approached often by them. Can someone tell me what would make them drawn to me if there's such a small population of black people in the mormon church? I never understood why.
The mormon god is not the God of the Bible
They are the same. We study the bible just the same as any christian should.
I thought God could do anything. Maybe he's not my fave space fairy now.😂
God is an asshole.
I'm 64 years old, I am also an atheist.
If god was real, s/he would be the nastiest, cruelest, most stupid, most selfish thing in the Universe.
In the Bible, Satan killed 10 people and only because god told him to.
God on the other hand, wiped out the entire planet, humans, fauna and flora in the flood...
Who is the bigger a..hole???
Seriously, read His Word. It’s TRUTH! Bless you!
@@rOnda88 I've read it. I'm not at all impressed. 🤮
@@rOnda88You do realize that statistically speaking more atheists have read the Bible or BOM cover to cover than active members of Mormonism or Christianity? That’s why we left, because we realized how F’ed up and ridiculous it is.
"I thought God could do anything."
That is a typical evangelical Christian belief. However, some limitations exist (in my opinion) such as God cannot do things that cannot be done. There's also rather a lot that apparently he won't do, but perhaps has the power; such as interfering with your free agency.
So God didn’t care about how black people felt about it? Just the racists opinion mattered? Doesn’t that make God a racist?
"So God didn’t care about how black people felt about it? "
Very little is written about whether God cares about *anyone's* feelings! What matters is what you DO.
I also like to add that Brigham Young was a contemporary of Abraham Lincoln. Most members love and respect Lincoln and yet his message was in direct opposition to “God’s” prophet at the time. It is a hard thing for most of my Mormon family to consider that the world was headed in the right direction while the church absolutely wasn’t.
Every church has its racism, not just Mormons. I fully believe that if "the church" stopped being racist, then the rest of the world would become more accepting of our differences and beliefs, and not just racism.
I was there when this Priesthood was given to black people. Lots of people left the Church at the time. Prejudice to the core!
A loving God isn't racist. It's the wickedness of men that brings curses upon themselves. It then behooves them to live their best lives to earn an eternal reward. To many people simply come up with excuses to reject the gospel -- only to limit their own progress. Choices have consequences.
Indeed. God isn't racist. Men can be.
God in the scripture wasn't racist. God in the scriptures said judge not. We do these things anyway. People aren't perfect.
The matter of racism in the churches history is much less bad than people make it out to be. Initially it was openly so, but toward the end of josephs life he openly denied slavery as a good practice.
In the first few decades some blacks did actually recieve these ordinances. A bit later some leaders closed it off. It was a messy time for the church in general. But then it was said to open to all in the future again and it did.
Men can be corrupted. Men can make mistakes. But mens mistakes are not gods mistakes.
If I have my history correct, President Young for political reasons made Utah a slave state, and they couldn’t be one of the slaves had the priesthood (I know it’s fricken weird, and I’m glad it was done away with), and also when the ban FIRST began, racial equality was very controversial, and Brigham was trying to protect the saints as much as he can from the persecution and mob violence that seemed to follow them, plus Brigham Young said that there would be a day when the blacks did have the priesthood, and prophets since have been seeking to end the practice, and it did end 46 years ago (which I acknowledge is sad) when the church was growing and spreading to other countries.
And while it’s easy to get hung up on past mistakes, I think it’s important to remember that we have repented of that sin and grown as a church.
Also, I’ve heard the complaint that the church lifted the ban because the internet was getting popular, and they didn’t want the world to know about their racism, but the ban was lifted in 1978, and the internet didn’t go public until 1993 fifteen years later, and didn’t get popular until 1995.
Please let me know if I need to clarify myself or add anything, and please have a great week.
God bless
As a convert who is also black the delay on removing the Preisthood ban until as late in history as it was is unfortunate. I can explain away up to late 1800s becuase slavery was literally just ending and idea of white leaders giving the Priesthood to people who were slaves just basically the day before is understandable, but yes, it's still wrong.
And listen for anyone that feels bad about this thinks it was only the Mormon church doing this know that the Methodist Church literally fought to free the slaves in the South because it the Christian thing to do but the moment we were free they closed their doors in droves at the idea of having to be in the same pew with blacks, let alone at a higher level like in the Temple. Thats the whole reason the AME Church exist.
So lets stand behind the living gospel on this one issue, call racism at this time period when literally most people were racist against blacks for what it is, and let us acknowledge what The Church is doing in Africa. Nigeria, The Congo, and others are getting lit up with Temples. Clearly things have changed.
Never heard that...and I've been a member for over 50 years. There are prophecies...
The native Americans are also still suffering from racism!
If my parents had an ounce of African ancestry, they wouldn’t have met on their mission and married in the temple before god changed his mind in 1978.
Truly, Black people of Sub-Saharan African genealogy descended from Cush (Ethiopia) - Genesis 2:13; Genesis 10:6-8. Amen.
1 JOHN 4:20
If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
I come here from time to time to see if anyone has anything good to say. Not yet, but perhaps I missed something.
My bishop in Maryland was black (and probably still is; just no longer my bishop) and he was the best. Right up there with my bishop that was Japanese (but living in Hawaii).
When "color" becomes worth talking about you have just become racist.
The children of Israel had the Melchizidek priesthoof withheld, so yes God can withold blessings people are not ready. God is not obligated to grant every blessing immediately. He loves us so much he gives us those blessings as we are able to bear them in every sense.
Even when approaching this as a thought experiment from a conservative religious political viewpoint that emphasizes the power of the nuclear family, the Mormon Church historically denied black families the rights and recognitions afforded to those basic matters. This includes the inability to hold basic church positions or to be fully integrated members or being recognized as an eternal family. They robbed from them their family identity. Could this exclusion have contributed to the higher rate of single motherhood in black communities today? Even from a staunch conservative perspective, isn't it possible that some blame lies with the Mormon Church's racist beliefs?
Is the Mormon Church responsible for deconstructing Black American nuclear families? 🤔
Religion always finds a way to dig its heels in to prevent progress among its flock
The Bible is full of injustices that profits have done to other brothers and sisters.
It would be wonderful if the Church were on the cutting edge of positive societal change, but since people aren’t perfect I could accept a slower, methodical “gatekeeping” approach. What I can’t accept as divine manifestation is the Church’s history of being g dragged along kicking and screaming after extended retrenchment.
Yes they call themselves the family church
Aren't we supposed to be in the world but not of the world ❤❤❤❤❤
They use the same excuses for slavery in the Bible (Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25)
I heard that exact explanation!
The problem isn't era, but doctrinal. When the doctrine is that black people got their skin color by being on Satan's side in a cosmic war, what do you expect?
Seems like this sister and brother have not studied the Bible thoroughly ! If they had they would know that God has withheld certain blessings from His Children .... e.g. The gentiles were not preached the gospel or were not able to receive gospel blessings or ordinances until after Christ's death and resurrection. Also ..even within the entire House of Israel out of 12 Tribes...only the Tribe of Levi was authorized to hold the Priesthood and perform ordinances within the Temple and Tabernacle ? These are just two examples...with plenty more within the pages of the Bible ! We are no one to say what God would do or not do...His thoughts are npt our thoughts... I met Helvecio Martins...1st General Authority 70 of African descent (Brazil) ..baptizrd way before the priesthood and temple blessings were given to all worthy males ....And I had the blessing of hearing his testimony 1st hand of his conversion and faith... If anyone had reason to doubt ...it would be him...but, like he told those of us present... He knew this church was true and he could never deny what he knew what God had revealed to him to be true....
Yea! You win your point! If Bible God is real then God is super racist and wants us to judge the worthiness of people based on race and or skin color.
Mosiah 4:9
9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.
Please don't try to put yourself above God !
@@2ba-lamanite351 God is a fictional character. A racist one according to you.
Everyone is better than that guy.
So you believe you are a hairless monke- got it y ?? If there is no God as you say...then we are just an accidental and insignificant speck of dust walking on a rotating rock suspended in this vast an ever expanding infinite realm called space. And since we are an accident as you say,,,then there is no real purpose for our existence ...no real purpose to our life because according to you we will die and become nothing ...! So if there is no real purpose to our existence and to our life then why worry about other people...why worry about racism, hatred, war, crime, evil, poverty, sickness, disease...etc etc etc ...according to you it really doesnt matter because we are just accidents and all life is insignificant and of no true value or purpose !! But guess what...there is a God...there is a purpose to life...and this life is not the end !
@@2ba-lamanite351 ah, the well known religious taking point: if no god, why be good?
because we recognize that we have an impact on other people and don't want to hurt them. we don't need belief in an unproven racist and immature entity. it's sad that you do.
Let me ask a question for those curious... are those black people, from that time, prevented from being baptized via proxy in temples?
Black people have never (so far as I know) been prevented from baptism. There was a time when black people were not ordained to the priesthood . This seems to be true in ancient times as well. It is wonderful that all blessings and their corresponding responsibilities are extended to black people, and dark brown; there may be a shade of light brown that is not included but you'd have to use a spectrum analyzer to figure out whether you are worthy of the priesthood. Yeah, okay, that part is fictional but y'all seem to be WAY too worried about color.
So rather than teach people to not be racist, God decided to wait. The idiocy of the God the Mormon church paints is remarkable. For example, If God and Satan reconciled, who would run Hell? Yeah, they can't reconcile.
That same excuse was told to me
Because Larry did not like me, God would not as well!? Ok...
Isn’t there a story about this theme in the Old Testament
I do not believe god created his children just to condemn them. That's insane! No loving god would act that way.
👏👏👏
the definition of confirmation bias
Were temple blessings kept from only black men or women also?
From both men and women
If you had one drop of negro blood you could not hold the priesthood in the Mormon church. And they didn't believe in interracial marriage so a white man could not marry a black woman because of whatever children they had the children would have negro blood.
they weren't allowed to participate in certain ceremonies, so yeah.
Racism and God. Talk about a CONTRADICTION IN TERMS. 😅😂😂😅😅😂
It is hard to come to terms with the racism surrounding religion in general. I don't condone it, but I still can't explain it.
But, if your criteria for joining a Christian sect is that they never adopted racist policies.You will not be able to join a Christian sect anywhere. (Or any other religious sect for that matter)
When God decided that the jews were a chosen people and that salvation was only available to the jews and no one else on the planet. That's racist. When God ordered the ethnic cleansing of the promised land after the children of israel returned from Egypt. That's racist.
God is a racist?
Or is it that we just don't understand God?
Sounds like it's pretty easy to point the finger at those who believe something when you no longer believe anything.
Listen for the sound of the grinding axe.
ya'll Star Wars came out before black people could have the priesthood
This clip is good at presentism.
"god" has nothing to do with racism and exclusion. However, I'm confident that "the only true church" happily accepted the tithes and offerings of Black congregants.
They also accepted black people as tithing.
Reasons I choose spirituality over organized religion !
I feel that if you’re so invested and worried about the situation or past situation… what are you doing to solve the matter? Everyone brings up issues but never how to solve it in a sense because it’s just content that you wanna have. You’re not in it for nobody but yourself glory and views on opinions that shake up controversy!! It’s easy to say what needs to be done but doing what needs to be done is what most podcast lack. So right on for the awareness but at the same time the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is doing things versus just saying things. But I’ll hear yeah but they were this, they were that? Blah blah blah.. the leaders of the church past and present our still man just like David who was an adulterer and then set up Bathsheebas husband to die in war… everyone in the Bible beside Jesus had faults and to point just on certain Men who had faults is wrong to do.
Because u dont understand the curses in duet 28 that god put on his chosen bride
Bingo. If god is loving he isn’t the god of Mormonism. If he is the god of Mormonism he is not loving and not worthy of our time or praise.
"If god is loving he isn’t the god of Mormonism"
Yet another all-knowing prophet of God writes wisdom (or not) on this page. How exactly do you define "loving" in this context?
Nope !! Joseph gave black men the priesthood!! Women also gave blessings and healing. Old and modern Prophets are men and make bad decisions based on their view. There are two types of prophesy. Conditional and unconditional. The church has sacrificed much because of this poor decision. Leaders were not inspired and made a mistake. They caused great harm.
There were blacks in the church that Joseph Smith gave them the priesthood. But in Utah Brigham Young was a hater. We know Brigham Young never had one prophecy. Aren't prophets supposed prophesy? Church makes no sense after Joseph death.
Perhaps a whole lot of the other stuff that were implemented by these other supposedly prophhets were not to have been implemented.
"We know Brigham Young never had one prophecy."
There is no WE but I appreciate you took the time to express your opinion.
Any excuse will do...
Poor God. Such a weasel, afraid to do the right thing.
Lotta victim blaming in the comments. Go listen to the full episodes and not just the clips and learn some context. Maybe you will be granted helpful insight and empathy. If this podcast does anything imo, it's deconstructing the lived experience of people who have survived and contextualizing how people get trapped and why leaving is impossible or difficult for many.
Fun fact, did you know that the prophet Joseph Smith did not deny the priesthood given to blacks?
Also,
Even after 1852, at least two black Latter-day Saints continued to hold the priesthood. When one of these men, Elijah Abel, petitioned to receive his temple endowment in 1879, his request was denied. Jane Manning James, a faithful black member who crossed the plains and lived in Salt Lake City until her death in 1908, similarly asked to enter the temple; she was allowed to perform baptisms for the dead for her ancestors but was not allowed to participate in other ordinances.
Cult!
why do religious people need to tell other people how to be.
Whitesome and delightsome, racist from the start.
Insane