Thanks so much, just discovered these more detailed looks at these sites. I actually got the game just to see a representation of ancient Greece. As a site worth doing a detailed video on would be Eleusis since it was such an important part of Athenian and greater Greek life. The site in the game is not a one to one of the actual site, but they did include a lot of important details that are easy to build a tour around. Great work!
The lions on the gate don't have manes because they're female. They don't have manes because the European Lions that lived in Greece at that time in the past (until we killed the off) were maneless like the famous Tsavo lions. No manes for males or females.
I’m Greek and I visit the real life site of Mycenae every year for a field trip. It’s amazing how the game has recreated the site by every detail I can tell you myself!
I went to a lot of these archaeological sites after playing this game, I'm a travel addict. It's awesome how you can still find these places in Greece! I only wish the game also included Asia Minor in Turkey. I agree on the incorrect stone for Tiryns in the game (as well as a few other sites). For Tiryns, you really need to see the fort in person to really understand why they call it "cyclops stone"; it's one of a kind and one of the most impressive stone fort I've ever seen, both in its engineering and in its craftsmanship.
Exceptional series nevertheless. Games that feature ancient classical history are very prominent, educative and interesting to say the least.Long live Greece! Thank you Invicta for the review. Great job
If you all enjoy this sort of video, check out the rest of our playlist and let me know what other sites you'd like to visit: ua-cam.com/play/PLkOo_Hy3liELnL_0p7__5gj6EzsNFLhgJ.html You can also read more about the site from Josho here: www.ancientworldmagazine.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-exploring-ancient-mycenae/
I'm a bit surprised to hear he's in the camp who doesn't believe the trojan wars took place. I know Homer's version almost certainly didn't happen but what about wilusa? the hittite vassel[?] kingdoms and their interactions/conflicts with the greeks?
@ i believe there were luwians (indoeuropean people, closely related to hittites) which is where the name "Iliad" comes from, Ilios is greek pronounciation of Wilusa (known also as Troy). Also numerous hittite records were found in Troy, i think it pretty much settled that trojans were subjects of Hittites for most part of their history. They had allianses with greeks though, and are known to revolted couple of times with greek help
Masterpiece! This game is a MASTERPIECE. Following the Mycenaean conquest of Crete around 1450 BC, the power axis completely changed. While Knossos was replaced by Mycenae ( in my view the triad Mycenae-Argos-Tiryns) as the most important city of Europe, Crete, on the other hand, was replaced by the Peloponnese ( more specifically by Argolis/Άργολίς), as the new center of the Greek and/or European civilization. Nevertheless, during the classical period ( the period that the game is set), Mycenae completely lost its former influence and power. However, Mycenae contributed to the Greek war effort during the Greco-Persian Wars. With the exception of Argos, the "queen of Argolis"/"Η Βασίλισσα της Αργολίδας" during the classical period ( which remained neutral in the war), two of the three powers that composed the former "triad" ( as I like to call it) of the Mycenaean period, on the other hand, fought in the Greco-Persian Wars ( Mycenae and Tiryns). Both cities, for example, provided 400 hoplites at the Battle of Plataea. Great video!
@Josho Brouwers They have created a mess with the terms they use. Someone should have the courage to drop the terms Minoan and Mycenaean. Because probably no one identified as Minoan and only the people of Mycenae identified as Mycenaean if any.
Honestly this sort of guided tour is what I hoped the discovery mod itself would be. I'd love to see your take on Corinth, especially the Acrocorinth, which is very different today than it was in the classical age.
We can try and do those in the future. In the mean time here is more content in written from from our guest archaeologist: www.ancientworldmagazine.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-exploring-ancient-mycenae/
I'm taking a Humanities class this semester, and we're covering the Greek history and mythos right now. This is the kind of stuff I need in my life to help me get through the semester. Thank you!
Should have asked him how realistic the renderings are by the group Salimbeti. They recreate realistic versions of Homeric descriptions, armor, arms, symbols, etc.
Maybe the walls had wooden covers that rotted away, hard to believe they would not think about cover from arrows even though there was hardly enough armor for everyone
This is an AMAZING video. The information provided by the expert guest was second to none. I am now a fan of the guest and would like to watch follow his content. Great video, thanks a lot!
What an excellent storyteller Josho Brouwers is. You two make a brilliant duo, you could definitely have a podcast just talking about different historical topics and thousands would listen. You both just have that "knack" for being able to translate history into a compelling, cohesive, story that anyone can follow. Just watching this so many questions pop into my mind. When he mentions that he does like that the battlements are made out of mud-brick even though they probably didn't exist I started wondering "Huh, were these fortresses and palaces built entirely out of mudbrick? Was any stone used? When did the masonry industry take off? What about wood?" and then he answered that question like 10 minutes later! Later he mentioned, a bit jokingly, how the fortress was invested with bandits and that made me really curious about how big a problem banditry actually was in ancient Greece. Like I've never thought of that before. Is the way the game depicts these small bands of bandits sheltering in old abandoned buildings and attacking travelers and merchants accurate? Thought-provoking! That's the word!
i just got ACO a few days ago and find myself watching these videos more then im playing the game lol. now when i discover a place in game im like oh i seen that in invicta's video thats the place about the thing lol. i have discovered a new love for ancient greece threw these videos thanks for that yah nerd ;) for real well done. i do this with every open world game but your videos happen to be the best ones ive come across comparing real history to the game
About 30 years ago PBS did a 6 part series on Troy I would think that the Trojans would have been Hittite; with a very different culture and gods from the Greeks, though there was a Greek colony nearby called Milwitas(sp? from the aforementioned series)
I was at a night class at Sydney university and near the end of the lecture, the teacher who's name i can't rember cause it was over 20 years ago said that they did a ground survey and found another 35 tombs around Mycenae and 50 around Knossos. But I haven't heard anything since. Does anybody else have heard anything
It would be good if ancient sources could appear in a bibliography. I know it's a long a tedious task, but it could let us go learn more. Direct links to perseus or itinera would be cooler still. Also modern bibliography would add a lot. What you said about the "aiawa" recalled me when I was a student of Pierre Sánchez. I think I remember he did breakthrough discoveries on the ethymology of those names, linking little-known middle-eastern sources to what we call today Trojans and Acheans.
surely i don’t think my fellows greeks in Argos nowadays know 1/100 of what you analyze on this video. Great work guys! Thank you! 😁👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻 ( i visit the place when i was too little 7 years old i would like to return. ) *i recognize although i’m greek , you definitely might be more qualify than myself in the context, but you forgot to mention that mycenaean civilization as the minoican one was expanded far from the actual area of greece nowadays , throughout the whole of mediterranean sea. ( “eis ton pana”, meaning in greek eis pana=towards Pana , this very ancient unknown for many of us god, “Pana”, spain espana as it still called nowadays for example ) **Pan God of Arcadian origin , Arcadia is west precisely next to Argos as you saw on this video. *** (eg i was astonished also to discover relatively recently by accident, that there are in sicily and south italy too, local names of places refer to mycenaean and minoan past of those areas too. )
I’m researching a novel set in Ancient Greece and these videos have been a great resource. I’m also researching a novel set during the golden age of pirates and I’d be interested if you did videos for the places in Assassin’s Creed Black Sails.
Some logical conclusions that may not have any historical basis: 1. The main ramps' very early divider (if accurate to the real site) seems logically to be a divider for (potentially dangerous) guests to have an audience with the king without giving them access to the rest of the citadel. 2. The Minoan pillar the lionesses are standing either side of could symbolize "civilization" or "urbanism" the pillar being a symbol of architecture. The lionesses could symbolize the house of Atreus guarding this symbol of "civilization / urbanism". I wonder if that's true?
the circular flooring of the tombs here remind me much of the ancient Nord sites in Skyrim. Makes me wonder if the developers over at Bethesda took some inspiration from ancient Greek architect like that.
Wow, it is TINY! I never realized just how small it was. And somebody please send an arrow into that bird, it's in the way!! Why is Tiryns so broken up?
You should ask them about the realism of the design language and heraldic marks? On walls and repeating patterns, etc. Use of colors in the game. How accurate the art is.
My two critiques-- take them with a grain of salt. Shorter videos (~15m) would make these more digestible. Also 60fps (you are running on PC @ 60fps) would make the video less jittery. Otherwise, great video!
It seems to me an obvious deduction that prior to a cerca 1200 BC global cataclysmic event that the earth was as if it were a different planet with different gravity and atmospheric pressure and that the laws of physics that govern and restrict construction now did not apply before 1200BC. That cataclysmic event, if it occurred, also spelled the doom of some hybrid characteristics such as gigantism.
First of all Geographically is all wrong. Peloponnese looks as large as Manhattan when its actually as large as Connecticut + Massachusettes together (maybe plus Rode Island too) Mycenae citadel covers an area of about 330 K sq feet and its about 10 miles to the sea (straight line to the South). Now some of you say "he doesnt believe in the Trojan War ?" Well, archeology is a science. Not a belief Unfortunatelly the mycenaeans had an amazing civilization but their written documents are mostly financial records. Dont forget, about 100 years ago, archeologists strongly believed that egyptian hieroglyphics were not even a language. And Linear A and B are not even greek. So be patience. Some day soon archeology will have to change its books again. Its a matter of time. If you take a look a the Pylos frescoes, you ll see mycenaeans fighting a tribe with Tarzan outfit. imgur.com/XPHRMLm Maybe they re british or austrians :P Or maybe it s not a battle that actual happened but just another fiction drawing. :D Who knows
Timestamps:
0:20 - Overview of the Mycenaean Civilization
9:35 - General features of a bronze age citadel
15:33 - Tour of the Citadel of Mycenae
I'd love it if you and Dr Brouwers could do an episode or two covering the historicity of the weapons, armor and clothing?
Thanks so much, just discovered these more detailed looks at these sites. I actually got the game just to see a representation of ancient Greece. As a site worth doing a detailed video on would be Eleusis since it was such an important part of Athenian and greater Greek life. The site in the game is not a one to one of the actual site, but they did include a lot of important details that are easy to build a tour around. Great work!
The lions on the gate don't have manes because they're female. They don't have manes because the European Lions that lived in Greece at that time in the past (until we killed the off) were maneless like the famous Tsavo lions. No manes for males or females.
I’m Greek and I visit the real life site of Mycenae every year for a field trip. It’s amazing how the game has recreated the site by every detail I can tell you myself!
Σε ζηλεύω :)
I really love how they added ancient ruins from older Greek civilizations, basically ancient Greece to ancient Greeks at that time 😂
exactly, pretty cool
I had high hopes at the title and was still really impressed because of this format. Please more of this as you're able!
Will definitely be doing more of these as they are tons of fun. Definitely check out the rest of the playlist for the other locations we've explored.
"Great, thanks for that context".
2:55 more like a copy of the Iliad in one hand and a stick of dynamite in the other.
Real men use dynamite.....for everything!
I went to a lot of these archaeological sites after playing this game, I'm a travel addict. It's awesome how you can still find these places in Greece! I only wish the game also included Asia Minor in Turkey. I agree on the incorrect stone for Tiryns in the game (as well as a few other sites). For Tiryns, you really need to see the fort in person to really understand why they call it "cyclops stone"; it's one of a kind and one of the most impressive stone fort I've ever seen, both in its engineering and in its craftsmanship.
I agree that they should have included Asia Minor in the game, but I feel they may have been wary about offending the Turks.
Exceptional series nevertheless. Games that feature ancient classical history are very prominent, educative and interesting to say the least.Long live Greece! Thank you Invicta for the review. Great job
Yes me too. I can't wait next Vikings.
If you all enjoy this sort of video, check out the rest of our playlist and let me know what other sites you'd like to visit: ua-cam.com/play/PLkOo_Hy3liELnL_0p7__5gj6EzsNFLhgJ.html
You can also read more about the site from Josho here: www.ancientworldmagazine.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-exploring-ancient-mycenae/
It would be cool to mod the entire map back during when the Mycenaean civilization flourished. Basically a major restoration project
I'm a bit surprised to hear he's in the camp who doesn't believe the trojan wars took place. I know Homer's version almost certainly didn't happen but what about wilusa? the hittite vassel[?] kingdoms and their interactions/conflicts with the greeks?
I agree, there was definitely a big war - probably a longer period of fights in that area that ultimately ended up in the form of the Illiad.
@Citizen Hoplite What do you mean by the fake "Indo-European" history and how is true Greek history forbidden?
Louis XIV (aka 1685Violin) I too would like to know what he means
Hitties never had western area of Anatolia
Western Anatolia was greek prominent area
Hitties was in middle and Eastern side
@ i believe there were luwians (indoeuropean people, closely related to hittites) which is where the name "Iliad" comes from, Ilios is greek pronounciation of Wilusa (known also as Troy). Also numerous hittite records were found in Troy, i think it pretty much settled that trojans were subjects of Hittites for most part of their history. They had allianses with greeks though, and are known to revolted couple of times with greek help
Really appreciate what they tried to do in this game. It's a wonderful feeling walking through such an ancient landscape.
Masterpiece! This game is a MASTERPIECE. Following the Mycenaean conquest of Crete around 1450 BC, the power axis completely changed. While Knossos was replaced by Mycenae ( in my view the triad Mycenae-Argos-Tiryns) as the most important city of Europe, Crete, on the other hand, was replaced by the Peloponnese ( more specifically by Argolis/Άργολίς), as the new center of the Greek and/or European civilization. Nevertheless, during the classical period ( the period that the game is set), Mycenae completely lost its former influence and power. However, Mycenae contributed to the Greek war effort during the Greco-Persian Wars. With the exception of Argos, the "queen of Argolis"/"Η Βασίλισσα της Αργολίδας" during the classical period ( which remained neutral in the war), two of the three powers that composed the former "triad" ( as I like to call it) of the Mycenaean period, on the other hand, fought in the Greco-Persian Wars ( Mycenae and Tiryns). Both cities, for example, provided 400 hoplites at the Battle of Plataea. Great video!
@Josho Brouwers the mycenaeans lived in the bronze age
@Josho Brouwers They have created a mess with the terms they use. Someone should have the courage to drop the terms Minoan and Mycenaean. Because probably no one identified as Minoan and only the people of Mycenae identified as Mycenaean if any.
Honestly this sort of guided tour is what I hoped the discovery mod itself would be. I'd love to see your take on Corinth, especially the Acrocorinth, which is very different today than it was in the classical age.
We can try and do those in the future. In the mean time here is more content in written from from our guest archaeologist: www.ancientworldmagazine.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-exploring-ancient-mycenae/
I'm taking a Humanities class this semester, and we're covering the Greek history and mythos right now. This is the kind of stuff I need in my life to help me get through the semester. Thank you!
Should have asked him how realistic the renderings are by the group Salimbeti. They recreate realistic versions of Homeric descriptions, armor, arms, symbols, etc.
Maybe the walls had wooden covers that rotted away, hard to believe they would not think about cover from arrows even though there was hardly enough armor for everyone
This is an AMAZING video. The information provided by the expert guest was second to none. I am now a fan of the guest and would like to watch follow his content. Great video, thanks a lot!
What an excellent storyteller Josho Brouwers is. You two make a brilliant duo, you could definitely have a podcast just talking about different historical topics and thousands would listen. You both just have that "knack" for being able to translate history into a compelling, cohesive, story that anyone can follow.
Just watching this so many questions pop into my mind. When he mentions that he does like that the battlements are made out of mud-brick even though they probably didn't exist I started wondering "Huh, were these fortresses and palaces built entirely out of mudbrick? Was any stone used? When did the masonry industry take off? What about wood?" and then he answered that question like 10 minutes later! Later he mentioned, a bit jokingly, how the fortress was invested with bandits and that made me really curious about how big a problem banditry actually was in ancient Greece. Like I've never thought of that before. Is the way the game depicts these small bands of bandits sheltering in old abandoned buildings and attacking travelers and merchants accurate?
Thought-provoking! That's the word!
these ancient tours are so exciting
feels like the super bowl for me 🤣
Wow Greece is sooo beautiful
i just got ACO a few days ago and find myself watching these videos more then im playing the game lol. now when i discover a place in game im like oh i seen that in invicta's video thats the place about the thing lol. i have discovered a new love for ancient greece threw these videos thanks for that yah nerd ;) for real well done. i do this with every open world game but your videos happen to be the best ones ive come across comparing real history to the game
About 30 years ago PBS did a 6 part series on Troy
I would think that the Trojans would have been Hittite; with a very different culture and gods from the Greeks, though there was a Greek colony nearby called Milwitas(sp? from the aforementioned series)
@Josho Brouwers Thank you
It's really nice that he was using the Dionysian BC and AD notations.
seriously, u guys missed the tours of ancient egyptian temples such as Ptah temple in Memphis and Karnark in Thebes (Assassin Creed origin)
These videos are so great!! ❤️
I was there in 1998. Did the giants build these Cyclopean walls? See LA Marzulli or Timothy Alberino.
I was at a night class at Sydney university and near the end of the lecture, the teacher who's name i can't rember cause it was over 20 years ago said that they did a ground survey and found another 35 tombs around Mycenae and 50 around Knossos. But I haven't heard anything since. Does anybody else have heard anything
It was very enjoyable once again! Thanks a lot! Can't wait to see which place will you talk about again! :)
Can u do Odysseus palace and talk about it and the odyssey kind of like this one
It would be good if ancient sources could appear in a bibliography. I know it's a long a tedious task, but it could let us go learn more. Direct links to perseus or itinera would be cooler still.
Also modern bibliography would add a lot. What you said about the "aiawa" recalled me when I was a student of Pierre Sánchez. I think I remember he did breakthrough discoveries on the ethymology of those names, linking little-known middle-eastern sources to what we call today Trojans and Acheans.
surely i don’t think my fellows greeks in Argos nowadays know 1/100 of what you analyze on this video. Great work guys! Thank you! 😁👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻
( i visit the place when i was too little 7 years old i would like to return. )
*i recognize although i’m greek , you definitely might be more qualify than myself in the context, but you forgot to mention that mycenaean civilization as the minoican one was expanded far from the actual area of greece nowadays , throughout the whole of mediterranean sea. ( “eis ton pana”, meaning in greek eis pana=towards Pana , this very ancient unknown for many of us god, “Pana”, spain espana as it still called nowadays for example )
**Pan God of Arcadian origin , Arcadia is west precisely next to Argos as you saw on this video.
*** (eg i was astonished also to discover relatively recently by accident, that there are in sicily and south italy too, local names of places refer to mycenaean and minoan past of those areas too. )
When will you continue the what if Julius Caesar was never assassinated series?
Working on part 2 right now and am hoping to get it up this weekend actually
Edvin Näsholm When Julius comes back to life
I think what if pompey won would be a better story tbh.
@@InvictaHistory May I recommend Viagra? XD
I’m researching a novel set in Ancient Greece and these videos have been a great resource. I’m also researching a novel set during the golden age of pirates and I’d be interested if you did videos for the places in Assassin’s Creed Black Sails.
Black Flag* :)
@@MrGuyJacks thank's I got it mixed up with the tv series
Please make a video visiting Sparta! I´d really appreciate it :)
Some logical conclusions that may not have any historical basis:
1. The main ramps' very early divider (if accurate to the real site) seems logically to be a divider for (potentially dangerous) guests to have an audience with the king without giving them access to the rest of the citadel.
2. The Minoan pillar the lionesses are standing either side of could symbolize "civilization" or "urbanism" the pillar being a symbol of architecture. The lionesses could symbolize the house of Atreus guarding this symbol of "civilization / urbanism".
I wonder if that's true?
Thanks a lot, guys!
would love to see comparisons with RL footage and especially archaeological maps of these sites!
the circular flooring of the tombs here remind me much of the ancient Nord sites in Skyrim. Makes me wonder if the developers over at Bethesda took some inspiration from ancient Greek architect like that.
I love this series on your channel
Great video for the ones that are studying archeology :P
Fantastic! !
Wow, it is TINY! I never realized just how small it was. And somebody please send an arrow into that bird, it's in the way!! Why is Tiryns so broken up?
You should ask them about the realism of the design language and heraldic marks? On walls and repeating patterns, etc. Use of colors in the game. How accurate the art is.
My two critiques-- take them with a grain of salt. Shorter videos (~15m) would make these more digestible. Also 60fps (you are running on PC @ 60fps) would make the video less jittery. Otherwise, great video!
MOST excellent!
Keep these up brotha
These are awesome thank you
This series of tours might just have convicned me to get the game..
It seems to me an obvious deduction that prior to a cerca 1200 BC global cataclysmic event that the earth was as if it were a different planet with different gravity and atmospheric pressure and that the laws of physics that govern and restrict construction now did not apply before 1200BC. That cataclysmic event, if it occurred, also spelled the doom of some hybrid characteristics such as gigantism.
Awesome!
720p? Wat?
Really interesting content though :)
Next is Troy itself...
The banners on the citadel belong to Athens because of the owl on it
Is there a way you can look into the homes of the poor people in Athens?
First of all
Geographically is all wrong.
Peloponnese looks as large as Manhattan when its actually as large as Connecticut + Massachusettes together (maybe plus Rode Island too)
Mycenae citadel covers an area of about 330 K sq feet
and its about 10 miles to the sea (straight line to the South).
Now some of you say
"he doesnt believe in the Trojan War ?"
Well, archeology is a science.
Not a belief
Unfortunatelly the mycenaeans had an amazing civilization but their written documents are mostly financial records.
Dont forget, about 100 years ago, archeologists strongly believed that egyptian hieroglyphics were not even a language.
And Linear A and B are not even greek.
So be patience. Some day soon archeology will have to change its books again.
Its a matter of time.
If you take a look a the Pylos frescoes, you ll see mycenaeans fighting a tribe with Tarzan outfit.
imgur.com/XPHRMLm
Maybe they re british or austrians
:P
Or maybe it s not a battle that actual happened but just another fiction drawing.
:D
Who knows
I was there 10 years ago.
I'm terribly intrigued by videos like this, but the question is: Is the game any good?
It's good looking and very funny to play
Modders of this game, get started on those fixes!
Total war when?
Why is the video only 720p?
Very annoyed by the bird!
Interesting. Mw
I would say "First" but it's already 2019
I really wish he would quit hitting the mic. It wounds like thunder or something is dropping in my house.
I know you're watching this comment, so please play MCC Halo Reach Steam, man :)
I'll probably do so vicariously
So for those that have no idea what AC is, what is going on?
Did you say Uruk-hai?? I mean, i guess Tolkien had to take his inspiration somewhere!
12:17
Why do you upload these in shitty 2008 quality that really disappoints me...
Mycaneans were not greeks :D
ΠΟΝΑΣ ΠΟΛΥ ????? Ε ? ΠΟΝΑΣ Ε ?🏛🏦🏛🏦
It's not pronounced "MeGAron". It's MEgaron. Just Like the name of the band MEgadeth. Learn to pronounce the Greek words properly.