Setting your action on the Classical Guitar (with luthier Gary Lee)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2017
- This is one lesson from a full course with Gary Lee entitled: A Player's Guide to Guitar Mechanics. If you would like to take the full course you can do so by becoming a member of Classical Guitar Corner. www.classicalguitarcorner.com...
Classical Guitar Corner is an online school for classical guitar and features some of the best educators in the world.
In this lesson you will learn how to measure your guitar's action, determine the best way to adjust and optimize the action, and gain a solid understanding of the underlying mechanics involved.
Gary Lee is a luthier based in Wayne, New Jersey (USA). His guitars are played by Ben Verdery and Fred Hand.
I like the 4mm string height, gives more tension and sound. When i was a beginner i struggled, but after a few years I find most of the struggling was just due to technique.
Excellent video, excellent explanation, thanks a lot.
i like this guy, more videos with him please.
Basically sand the saddle down 1mm to achieve .5 mm at the 12th fret. Not that big of a deal , its pretty simple just take your time. I find doing yourself may cost you now and then, but when you have the knowledge its one more thing you can do that you don't have to pay someone else to do.
Good philosophy as well.
It's also satisfying to do things yourself. UA-cam tutorials are golden for so many things around the house, car, instrument, whatever.
That's a really good explanation. My el cheapo classical has a truss rod, so weird have been nice to have discussed that. But I know it's not usual to have it in a classical guitar.
Excellent! Thank you!
Excellent video thank you!
Thank you . Very knowledgeable.
Thank you for this video. I'm going to give doing my own setup a try.
Best wishes and good luck!
@@ClassicalGuitarCorner Can you help me, friend? I have a classical guitar and all the strings in all frets sound Sharp even with the open strings tuned. What do you suggest?
Sorry for my bad english, im brazilian
@@henrimavignier I also had a problem with that, before I lowered the action (height of the strings). The higher action, the sharper intonation. After you eventually sand down the saddle a bit, you can also make the sting longer by file the top of the saddle a bit tilted (every 1/10 mm counts). Longer strings = flatter intonation. Check at 12.th fret. The nut might also be too high, affects also the intonation.
Thanks for the video.
He explains it well 👍🏻
Interesting,thank you!
Really helpful illustrations.
So glad you enjoyed the video and the explanation
I finished fixing a broken neck join on a classical guitar I set the action for 3.5 mm at 6th and 1st string. I thought i was too high still but now it looks like I am in the right ballpark.
Thank you for the insights🤗🤔
Thank you very much 😊😊
Thank you fur information
I inherited a Cordoba Solista CD and took it to my guitar tech for a tune up, who does excellent work on my electric guitars and Taylor steel string acoustics. He said everything out there about a 3-4 mm range of string height on a classical guitar at the E strings on the 12th fret is nonsense, and it should be more like 1.5-2 mm. Something about the higher height is because of underbow and with a quality guitar like I have he can easily make it 1.5-2 mm with no buzzing. I am new to nylon string guitar playing and his advice seems to contradict everything out there, but like I said, he has never failed me when it comes to my other guitars. Any thoughts about what he is telling me?
9:10 Hi, great content here; I'm just curious how manipulating this "triangle" affects the intonation?
Great video!! Thank you. I recently purchased a Cordoba Orchestra Fusion. It is a 1 7/8" nut width classical guitar with a 16" diameter neck. I have a Cordoba C7-CE 2" nut flat Classical neck. I love the feel of my C7. It was set up perfectly and for me plays very well with little tension on my left hand. I tried twice to get my new guitar set up with no success. It is a beautiful sounding instrument but I could not get it to feel (action) as well as my C7. Was I expecting too much from a different type of neck? It was set up by a different person than my C7! The action was low but so low that bar cords up the neck were giving me muddy base strings. Very frustrating.
I bought a Cordoba C7CE recently too - - the action out of the factory is okay, but could still be lowered a little though. Was going to try the truss rod but I don't want to damage the guitar, cheers
My Nylon acoustic wich I started with has 6mm height on the 12th fret. That's wild.
That must require some finger strength to push down
did it use cello bridge or something? LOL
That can really break the guitar experience 😅
Ha mine is 1.3
CENTIMETRES
My (normal classical guitar) has 8mm on the 12th I can’t play it that well on the high notes but it’s decent on the lower notes
Des infos super intéressantes! Merci.
how do i lowen the action and also create a steeper angel behind the sabal. because if i lowen my action by shaving down the sadal the angel will become more flat and if i heighten to sadal to create more of an angle the action be become higher. what do i dooo ?
Hi, The strings hight on the 12th fret is around 4 mm and the 1st fret 1mm. Is this normal or is my neck not set straight ? My guitar is a Ramirez anos 125
very well explained. thanks
Great video and great information. The table of heights was really good. Also the discussion on string tension and loudness and style of attacking the string horizontally versus vertically.
It should be titled "Understanding action on the Classical Guitar" since there's nothing on how to set the action. Also, the course on triangles is not necessary. Only need to say that since 12th fret is half way along the string, any change in height required there will require twice as much change at the saddle. Would also be nice to have measurements at 1st Fret (for nut adjustment).
Thanks for a very informative video.
Hello, your video is great. But I have a guestion. Is a guitar playable at all if it is not intonated, if guitar does not have total intonation. For example, if we have optimal action and guitar is in tune in open string position, is that enough, or we need that also in 12th fret? Thanks a lot.
You know, how many guitars are really perfectly intonated. Might be that you can test other strings; I don't really like high tension, but must admit that today's purchase of D'Addario's carbon kept what they promised in this respect. Of course it's OK to play however it sounds if it's OK with you. This is not perfect harmony. Guitars never really are - not mine anyway...
Great video. Understand more how it works now.
Glad to hear! Thanks for the nice comment. -Dave
Interesting. BUT 4 mm (6.str) and more is too high to myntaste. It makes it hard to play up on the neck, and the intonation is often getting too sharp because of high action. I myself prefer about 2 -2.5 mm, having much more fun of playing! And the sound is also good. Before discover this, my wrist was acheing a lot.
Btw: I wonder why Alhambra guitars have such a high action.. They also often have a slightly bowed neck - maybe a context? The higher action (string height), the bigger risk for getting a bowed neck after some time. A tip here for preventing a neck to bow: Put a capo at 9.th fret when you not use the guitar! Or slack the strings a lot, if guitar is stored away for a periode
what diff would a capo do lol the tension is still there right?
If the neck is straight and the string height at the nut isn't high, 4mm should do just fine. My personal rule is as low as possible with buzzing under realistic playing.
what is often not mentioned is that the lower the action, the more relaxed especially the fretting hand.
I've always liked low action, easier for me to press the strings down. But I got a classic guitar that was given to me and I tried to play it but the action is too high. I tried to adapt for years but I'm just stuck with my ways. I just thought I would see if I could lower the Action down so that I could be easier for me to play.
How did it go? If you lowered it...
Here is my case I own a Córdoba guitar which has a truss bar so as we go from the winter rainy season to the summer r dry season the action changes the problem is when changing the action (bow ) I get problems in intonation I'd like to hear you comments on that the most problem comes with the B and G the D note and the A notes are sharp ? Your thoughts
Perhaps explore getting a series of "saddles" ( the nomenclature in my opinion is backwards common sense says the saddle should be the wood part that carries the part the strings go across i.e. the bridge) that address the humidity issue. I have one for winter and summer. Perhaps take the time to have them intonated. Once done the can be changed accordingly. High action maybe a more recent issue due to the very high tension strings. Historically classical strings where made from protein i.e. "cat gut' strings or other salvaged animal parts you get the idea. Therefore necks of cedar may not be rigid enough for these new high tension strings, just a guess. Good luck and joyful playing
You need to humidify the guitar all year round. The top and back will bow or sink depending to humidity and this will change the action at the bridge.
the higher action makes the sharper notes
Question what if there is no more saddle height that can be removed and you need to take material off the bridge to lower the string action how do i go about this or do I need a neck adjustment by a luthier
I have an old guitar that had way too high action. I had to make some grooves in the wood under the level of the saddle at three of the strings. Cheaper than resetting the neck :)
I am in the stage of making a classical guitar. I just need this understandable solution to finish my fingerboard properly. Thank You very, very much!
did u finish it? send us a pic of it!
Brillant video, cheers!
So 3.8mm on my hanika is alright?
if the guitar will not hit a 4MM gap at fret 12 and lowering the saddle alone is not enough,.... will lightly shaping the rear saddle groove piece help to lower the saddle. Like lower the saddle itself as well as let all the strings barely clear the rear saddle groove piece. Would that be worth doing so that all string only contact the saddle itself?
A previous owner of my LaPatrie guitar, put steel strings on it and now the action appears high, I'm not sure if a truss rod adjustment or a saddle shaving is needed, any suggestions as to what to do?
Hi Carl, we would highly recommend taking it to a qualified luthier as it's possible there could have been damage to the instrument with steel strings on the guitar. Best wishes. -Dave B
The string height chart you showed on your computer, was that for measuring at the 12th fret? Where exactly? Thanks!
Hi Jack: Yes, that is for measuring at the 12th fret. Thanks for the question. Peace
Very helpfull.
Thank you.
I look this video for my Cuatro Venezolano .
Greetings from Holland
Glad you found it helpful, Mario.
I recently bought a new "vintage" guitar from ebay, it sounded great but the strings were really high, so I took out my saddle and ran it across fine sandpaper on a flat surface, retested, resanded etc, until it was a good feel, no science needed, no luthier needed, just make sure you do it with a very light sanding each time and make sure you keep it even pressure on a flat surface. If it starts buzzing , you have over done it, just make sure you have a spare saddle or 2 , they only cost a couple bucks on ebay.
Same wd me bro. A vintage classical guitar
What if my classical guitar has no truss rod?
So besides of "going to your local lutiere" how it"s done in practice :) there is no no rod on classical guitar :)
Depends on what guitar you have - there are classical guitars with truss rods.
Most pro-quality luthier-built 'classical' guitars don't have *adjustable* truss rods. The necks are often reinforced however- A lot of makers today are using carbon fiber reinforcement or some other non-adjustable reinforcement. The string tension for nylon strings is far less than for a steel-string acoustic guitar, and the classical guitar neck is larger, so under-bow is really not as much of a problem. Also remember traditional classical guitars are not constructed like a mass-produced steel-string... the neck and neck block are all one piece, and the sides actually into the neck. It's not like a Martin or Taylor where the neck may be bolted on from inside the guitar (Taylor) or fit with a dovetail into a separate neck/body block (Martin).
@@HBSuccess But what you are asking about, I think, is how to adjust the string height? The truss rod, if you have one, in a classical is not adjustable. But you should be able to set string height using saddle height adjustment and nut slots fine tuning. Lots of videos on doing this properly.
Usually it should be done by adjusting the height of the bridge's nut. You can always file your nut from its bottom to reduce its height or get a higher nut and reduce it to desired height if you want to have a higher action. Then calculate the ratio he gave with the triangle formula.
Luckily I have a cheap cordoba so I can sand away without too much fear and learn to set this up, and if I ever upgrade in the future I’m set!
Sounds like a good plan :) On eBay the sell saddles made of real bone (cattle or camel) really cheap. It's a good way to upgrade the guitar, if it has plastic or composite saddle. Bone is definetely the best for the sound
@@evenseb7574 man I might just do that. After some hesitation I did file down my own bridge and it actually went well!
@3'12" - the table is the key.
I wish I had a professional in my town who can reduce the action of my guitar :(((
So could you raise the volume by increasing the distance of the strings from the sound board ? Or in other words find the optimal distance from strings to sound board, perferably while keeping the action close.
You can hit the strings harder (so play louder) without buzzing frets with higher action. Soundboard is irrelevant here.
High action also loses tune as the string is tightened more when pushed down. It can make a natural note sharp or half a step out.
Thanks for the informative comment!
You’ve probably heard this before but a “right” triangle has a 90° angle. That’s not what’s going on in your diagram. However, you have some good info. So thank you much.
What a useless comment…. It’s a handmade drawing not autocad. Anyone with common sense understands this from the sketch.
@@rgrgraterol you are right(no pun intended). Nice necrobump tho.
Have a luthier who understands front thickness, neck strength/rigidity effects ..will 'point' to the correct string tension.
Having the frets levelled, while the instrument is tuned to pitch, helps too.
My Classical is set to 2.3mm (across the board) measured at the 12th fret. This is 'right on the boarder' of buzz (for this guitar). Thats the funny thing about action, the guitar itself (due to the dynamics of the woods under tension) will allow a certain level of low action but no lower.
I've seen some Classical guitars handle a near 1mm action (at the 12th fret), with relatively no buzz!
But, these are exceptional cases ..and naturally, tone and volume drop a little with lower actions :)
I guess that depends on the way the musician prefers to pluck the string - just as the luthier in this video explains.
@@rolfedrengen totally. It is best to see the person play, before setting the action :)
Athough, a guitar should take light and heavy thumb technique without buzzing too much. As you have to expect dynamic changes with the players plucking hand
A capo can help guide your action too.
Does it also buzz when the strings are higher??
Usually too-high action will have the opposite effect: instead of sounding too loose and rattling against the frets the strings will become tight from excess pressure and the sound can at times almost sound "choked." In addition, you will need greater pressure from the left hand to fret notes, especially the higher up you go on the fingerboard, with high action. Hope this helps.
@@ClassicalGuitarCorner it Buzz only when you lower the action too much! (Like mine)
What's the intro piece called please?
Hi Saad, that's the Fugue BWV 1001 by J.S. Bach. You can watch Simon perform the whole piece here: ua-cam.com/video/M68Bvdx-iL8/v-deo.html
just measured my yamaha cx40 2 from factory string 1 at 12 fret 4.5mm and 6 /5.9mm thats 1.3mm on string1 and 1.7mm on string 6 than the high readings on height chart shown .I,m a lot higher ??????,do i need a set up?.
Absolutely need for a setup. Try 2,5mm max 3!
thanks@@evenseb7574
You need to make sure to measure at the 12th fret, the space between the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. That space would be your measurement.
Mine is 8mm on the 12th 😫
Err frustrating video how do we do it ????
Hi its chris pratt
If I feel the action height is too high for my left hand, should I buy another lower one to replace it?
Buying a new guitar is probably a little extreme. I have found that usually the bridge nut (saddle) is the easiest place to lower your action. Some acoustic guitars have a shim or shims underneath but classical guitars rarely have shims. If you're confident you can try sanding off the underside of the nut until you reach a height that is closer to what ever height you're after. The next thing to tackle is the neck nut. Basically you can do the same thing to this nut that you did to the bridge nut although there's usually not much excess on this nut but that can vary from guitar to guitar. After you've lowered one or both nuts try adjusting your truss rod if you have one to set the relief of your neck. Don't worry too much about ruining the nuts as you can get replacements fairly easy and without too much expense unless you have a high-end guitar and then things could start to get expensive if you get it wrong.
All the best!
Thank you Joshua.
joshua rogers it's a dream scenario - but my Spanish guitar doesn't have any truss rod, and after lowering its saddle there's still 1mm left to be taken off its action. Any suggestions what to do next?
Hmmm try lowering it even more if possible. Without a truss rod your options are limited but even with a truss rod it wouldn't have a significant impact.
Make sure your nut is set to the absolute minimum height. Nut height is frequently overlooked, and its probably MORE important than bridge saddle height because it affects every string. One trick you might try to test this is to just put a capo on fret one. If the guitar suddenly becomes much easier to play, then you know your nut is too high. You can lower the nut height by knocking out the nut and filing a little off its base, or by cutting the nut slots deeper with nut files. If your neck has too much relief (its bowed forward like a banana) without a truss rod, this is a big problem. Its possible to steam the neck then flatten it with the right tools, but this is not a quick do it yourself job for total novice, and depending on the cost of the instrument it may not be cost effective to have a luthier do it for you. .
I forgot to carry the one...
Thanks for the video. I just purchased my first Classical guitar today and I'm perplexed as to why the 3 treble strings sound so dull, dead, dampened. I've tried to adjust the truss rod slowly both ways most of the day, and it doesn't seem to make any difference. What do you think? Thanks!
Hi @ambu64, this is really common actually. The third G string is the thickest of the nylon strings and so it tends to sound "tubby" as some have described it. In fact, some string manufacturers created wound third strings to try to address the problem, but they were too thin to be wound and sounded thin as a result. The best solution is to use a carbon third string, which is thinner in diameter. While the cost is exorbitant, Hannabach's Goldin third string is magical sounding! -Dave B
Thank you so much...I will definitely try that soon!!
4:32
Much appreciated👌🏻
I'm glad I read the comments before watching the video. Not going to bother.
Cordoba or Yamaha C40
@Azzi Guitar is that a yamaha c40II?
Gary looks like Grant Imahara's brother
Does the neck of a classical guitar is always stable that it doesn't need a truss rod? I believe the bow of the neck also affects the tension of the strings. I'm planning to buy a classical guitar but it's hard to find one that has a truss rod.
juan dela cruz The reason why some guitars like the electric one have a truss rod is mainly because of the metal strings. Nylon strings don't put that much tension. Also, due to the fact that electrical guitars needed a faster fretboard, they opted for a thinner neck. Again, with a classical guitar that is not needed, because the neck and fretboards are usually pretty thick.
Jairo Londoño Indeed, although the thin profile necks are becoming more popular nowadays, similar width with classical but thinner profile. Although, I haven’t played one yet, I think the playability is better.
juan dela cruz I guess it depends on the genre you play and technique you use. If thats how you feel, then you better get one with the truss rod. I have both a classical and an electric one😊
Jairo Londoño That’s great, I dreamed of having an electric guitar when I was in my teens, when I liked rock music very much, but never had one. Right now, my preference changed though. I already found one. It’s Ibanez classical guitar. I play classical music but I would want to play jazz on it too.
juan dela cruz That's awesome, I've played Ibanez guitar and they rock. I used to play classical music when I was younger and lately I want to play acoustic jazz and bolero
3.7 low? damn
and im on 3.0 and still want it to be lower
Wasted 10mins of my life to be told to take my guitar to a proffessional to adjust my guitars action.
Not a waste of time if you view the video through other people's life experience. Having more empathy will take you farther in your life.
I changed my strings on my classical guitar and lowered the action. My strings are making a sound when I move from one chord to another. I was told I should sand them. One calls it "coiled strings". Can someone show me how to do this?
Hi Tom, my best advice is to take the guitar to a qualified luthier.
New strings make more unwanted sounds, just play as it is. Low strings are a big advanrage, playwise
Does any one know.
I have the same question. I play a Ramirez R1 and the action is still high even after sanding down the saddle as far as it can go.
Click bait. If I was going to a luthier why would I watch this?
nuh uh im doing it myself and this helps
Three millimeters works well. IMO...most classical guitarist play with too high of an action. Even David Russell's action is just over 3mm (1/8") I do believer he plays concert halls. I did restaurant gigs for years. You can't play three and four hours with a 4mm action . Plus, I use normal tension strings. Lot of opinions on the internet ...opinions. This is not carved in stone.
Wasn't this dude on Mythbusters?
I must have fallen asleep
This video just says goto a shop and get it done. Clickbait, to me as the title implies showing you hot to do it.
Interesting. Yeah i just shaved my bridge down super low and now my action feels great lol
Holy S***! I just need to know which way to turn my truss rod, jeez!! Is he gunna say it??? Someobe pls tell me. Holy christ
This sounds like a linear algebra class
More like Trig. LOL. Or just good old Geometry.
Almost ten minutes to "learn" that the height of the saddle is the way to lower the height of the strings?
membership is far too high
Hi Kha, we've tried to make the membership subscriptions as much value for a great price as possible. We do still have a ton of high-quality free material, like all of our videos here at UA-cam as well as many other free lessons at our website: www.classicalguitarcorner.com/online-lessons/ We do hope you'll enjoy these even if membership is not something you can do right now.
@@ClassicalGuitarCorner $397.00 isn't a bad price when you consider a year of once weekly hour long lessons with a tutor face to face + travelling to and from costs..
But please remember that every single guitar - hopefully - is designed for the action it really has; If you lower the saddle bone, then there might be a collision between body acoustics, the guitar's body not yours, between its stiffness etc and your preferences, so it's not recommended to lower action too much. There are plenty of guitars, so better pass purchase than lower action too much. If the particular luthier hasn't taken playability into consideration, then you just drop him.
lol
Buy a belt sander.
SHE ???
lol..pointless.
Waste
Sidney Michelle You came here looking for tips on shredding, right?
Wtf r you even trying to say ......
Waste of time!
Give me back 10 minutes of my life. This video is a waste of time
How much time your viewers have wasted watching you speaking. You need 2 minutes to say what you said in 9 minutes.
It's funny about the forums; however good comprehensive stuff people take time to communicate, then losers like you come to tell it stinks. Whatever more would you really need to know - at that having got the info of the great action table of Lee's - for understanding action?
@@hni7458 Oh oh I am so sorry. I thought it's only for your goodnees, where one tries to present contents in a concise manner. I am so sorry if I upset you.