@@LighthoofDrydenI just wanna thank you because you motivated me to go do something and since then I've lost 25 lbs and I'm not gonna stop, seriously thank you Dryden
Man this sounds like such a natural way for the player to create synergies, I love it! No matter if this relic group would get a canonical name or not, they're now forever tied to the term 'baby relic' in the community, and I think we can all agree on that
I find it awesome that ouer MC uses old and discarded equipment and makes those into amazing items. Just like he was discarded by his father and now polishes himself.
Yo, this is sick. I've been following since the blackthornprod video because I like you and your devlogs, but this is the first video that I've actually thought about buying and playing the game. Unexpected synergies are what some of my favorite games are based on (Slay the Spire cards+relics, Overwatch team comps, Hades boons, etc)
Oooh, I definitely think this works well. I also like the idea of multiple paths to the same place-you're not always locking yourself out of one benefit forever by choosing another, sometimes you just have to choose which one you do first and which one you do second. Some questions: - Can you still find the other relics naturally or do you only ever find the baby relics and need to evolve them now? - Do most relics only have 1 evolution? Or do you plan to have 2 or 3? - Can you devolve relics and take them down another path? My own thoughts on the answers: *First question:* Personally, I think it makes sense to have the early floors either exclusively give you or heavily bias towards the baby relics, but as you progress through the game, have more relics show up already upgraded. The main justification there, besides it sorta feeling natural, is that as players progress, more and more of their relics will be upgraded. Even the evolved relics aren't strict upgrades, I assume they'll generally be stronger, and synergize with some themes of a run. Correspondingly, if you only ever find baby relics throughout the run, the further you go, the more invested effort you're giving up by swapping out a relic, and so to encourage players to keep swapping out relics, the relics they find should probably also be upgraded. Correspondingly, though, I think there should be some sort of system in the background rigging relic evolutions to be more synergistic with your existing ones. The bead-themed evolutions works quite naturally for this, you could pretty easily do something like "for every X bead evolved relic you're carrying, you're somewhat more likely to have new relics evolved with the same bead." It shouldn't be tooo high, you don't want to give players toooo much control OR make players feel too shoehorned by the initial choices thrust upon them, but I think a little bias in favor of things you're more likely to want can work well. Hades implicitly has something similar by both limiting you to only I think 4 or 5 distinct gods per run (you might be able to force the game past the normal limit using clever rerolling and the keepsakes, not super sure) and making boons have prerequisite boons, such that builds are naturally pushed towards synergies. The above system could potentially even be the very system responsible for finding more evolved relics throughout the game, through something like: there's a small, baseline chance that new relics will be randomly evolved. Then, for every evolved relic you are carrying, new relics have a chance to be evolved with the same bead, or with some complementary beads? Though, one thing I think is important to be wary of with a system like this is giving the player _too much_ control. I mentioned it earlier, but I honestly think this is one of Hades' bigger weaknesses: as an experienced player with all the keepsakes, the maximum number of rerolls, and enough skill to survive a long time without picking up boons for certain slots, I can _largely decide what build I'm going to use before I start the run._ Obviously I can't entirely force everything, I can't force specific Daedalus hammers and no matter how much I reroll and use appropriate keepsakes and just wait, I can't _force_ the game to give me a specific build, but except for builds relying on Duo or legendary boons (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, even those) I can largely get the build I want. And I think this is bad for a roguelike, I think part of the great thing about roguelikes is that they don't just let you do the same broken strategy every time, they force you to use the tools are your disposal to overcome the challenges, rather than just go find the build you know works well. *Second question:* I think one cool idea is to have the first evolution be this fanout, where you have a lot of choice with where to take the relic, but have subsequent evolutions instead mostly reconverge, like with the shield. So you can pick the light shield or the dark shield from the shield, but if you pick either of those, at that point you only have 1 path (joined shield). This makes figuring out which beads are "complementary" and pair up for each relic an additional thing to figure out, you could maybe have clues hidden throughout to this. Like, the first evolution step is a player choice, where you decide which way you want to take the relic. But then subsequent evolution steps are _puzzles_ where you need to figure out what bead pairs with the first step for this relic in order to evolve it further. Maybe you even can have longer chains sometimes then, almost forming miniature quests to undertake as you go through the run, trying to collect the right beads for a powerful several-evolutions-deep relic and evolve it with each of them. *Third question:* No particular thoughts here, tbh. I don't immediately see any cool or strong reasons to allow or not allow devolving relics. Anyway, Disinherited is coming along great and I think this general system is turning out both quite unique and very promising! The devlogs are always fun to watch, just figured I'd share some thoughts I have about roguelikes! :D
I saw the Owl Mask & thought what if there were More?! Especially for the New Lunar Year, let’s have a Snake & Dragon themed mask in the game! Beads for these ‘line’ of masks are Jade mixed with another Bead Type Lunar Snake Mask Bead - Flight & Jade Player moves faster on the ground, boosts HP & how much HP Samuel loses to being hit when this mask is activated & equipped. Lunar Dragon Mask Bead - Heart & Jade Sun Mask - Animal is a Dog/Wolf Bead - Sun Stone Works based on how much Lantern Oil you have with a 10% chance to stun Death when equiped.
As always your developments are EXTREMELY captivating- and, as the local pokemon & rogluelike enjoyer, I can already feel myself becoming less and less normal about trying to find each combination of beads and relics, hahaha. You're doing amazing!! Thanks for the updates!! They're always so fun to watch :D
Hey I just started binging these devlogs and i have grown a fondness to this game! im excited for the steam release. 🥰 i have some small suggestions that could be pretty cool (mainly qol): - for texts (like menus or descriptions) using italicization and color-coding, I think this could go a long way as a small detail - a boss or npc that is fascinated in arctic or cryo related tech or theme, also having either a mech penguin or an alive penguin (more biased suggestion), or maybe even adding a temperature mechanic going into some areas that house other enemies - Diary entries written by bosses or Charles that can be found throughout the bosses' respective area - If you have low health, you constantly have a red vignette effect around your screen, vision appears hazy/delayed, faint heart beating noise at extremely low health - Interesting idea for later stages of development: a seed number for each run, and when making a run you can import a seed that generates the same map based off the seed - When you collect the absorbable items, make them smoothly tween/lerp into the player exponentially, and a small white vfx showing absorption (mb if any of these are already implemented into the game as of writing this)
Here's an idea: Bone Shield - Increases defense with the amount of bones you are holding. I thought this would be cool, especially paired with a pockets build. But aside from that, the game is already surpassing what I ever would have thought to come from this. (Not that I thought it wouldn't be good) But the amount of content in this game while not even complete honestly astounds me. Amazing work - that's all I can see.
That's a really cool idea, and to further the theme, the idea that relics all start out as "tattered" fits narratively with the fact that your father cut you from his will, leaving you with naught but the tattered clothes on your back. So obviously, you are poor and any possessions you do have will be reflective of that, since your day job in-universe is as a starving artist (a poet).
So now I'm just thinking that Samuel's father did so much trauma on that poor boy that he is sitting somewhere in an asylum. Samuel lives to be the hero of his own story with his own free will in his mind while playing with beads and old stuff (a cup, an old butter-knife) that he found in the asylum.
Something else this calls to mind is certain items in Final Fantasy that start out giving you a penalty, but if you use them long enough become something amazing. Which feels like it would be an interesting dynamic for a roguelike, where failure has serious consequences. Is it worth the risk of making the game harder for yourself now, in the hopes that you last long enough to see it become easier later? If something else good comes along for the same slot, do you throw away all the effort you've put into that item, or stick it out?
Wanna hear my idea that is totally kiwis? A [FORGOTTEN] relic to the game, that is themed around unlocking a upgrade possibility for your existing beads/relics. Ofc it is broken into 5 pieces. Ofc you have to retrieve all of the broken parts from the bosses. BUT that would offer an excellent opportunity for a plot twist >:] This mystical relic could be a Pandoras box. of some sort. (Some Unbeatable boss or John Pork, idk) please :>
As always, you just casually do 10x the amount of work of a normal human being. Why can't I be this productive?
You have a full-time job!! There’s no comparison
@@LighthoofDrydenI just wanna thank you because you motivated me to go do something and since then I've lost 25 lbs and I'm not gonna stop, seriously thank you Dryden
@ oh wow, the dedication that takes! You’re crushing it, and I’m so glad I was able to help (even though truly it’s all you)
Man this sounds like such a natural way for the player to create synergies, I love it!
No matter if this relic group would get a canonical name or not, they're now forever tied to the term 'baby relic' in the community, and I think we can all agree on that
@@DualWielded I think I won’t be able to break myself of it either, so, here we are XD
Oh these shield designs are STUNNING! I love the direction you’re taking this in!!
I find it awesome that ouer MC uses old and discarded equipment and makes those into amazing items. Just like he was discarded by his father and now polishes himself.
@@julianhinck5455 !!!!!
Yo, this is sick. I've been following since the blackthornprod video because I like you and your devlogs, but this is the first video that I've actually thought about buying and playing the game. Unexpected synergies are what some of my favorite games are based on (Slay the Spire cards+relics, Overwatch team comps, Hades boons, etc)
What a cliffhanger! Telling us you got more and not telling us! I will wait patiently…
Oooh, I definitely think this works well. I also like the idea of multiple paths to the same place-you're not always locking yourself out of one benefit forever by choosing another, sometimes you just have to choose which one you do first and which one you do second.
Some questions:
- Can you still find the other relics naturally or do you only ever find the baby relics and need to evolve them now?
- Do most relics only have 1 evolution? Or do you plan to have 2 or 3?
- Can you devolve relics and take them down another path?
My own thoughts on the answers:
*First question:* Personally, I think it makes sense to have the early floors either exclusively give you or heavily bias towards the baby relics, but as you progress through the game, have more relics show up already upgraded. The main justification there, besides it sorta feeling natural, is that as players progress, more and more of their relics will be upgraded. Even the evolved relics aren't strict upgrades, I assume they'll generally be stronger, and synergize with some themes of a run. Correspondingly, if you only ever find baby relics throughout the run, the further you go, the more invested effort you're giving up by swapping out a relic, and so to encourage players to keep swapping out relics, the relics they find should probably also be upgraded.
Correspondingly, though, I think there should be some sort of system in the background rigging relic evolutions to be more synergistic with your existing ones. The bead-themed evolutions works quite naturally for this, you could pretty easily do something like "for every X bead evolved relic you're carrying, you're somewhat more likely to have new relics evolved with the same bead." It shouldn't be tooo high, you don't want to give players toooo much control OR make players feel too shoehorned by the initial choices thrust upon them, but I think a little bias in favor of things you're more likely to want can work well. Hades implicitly has something similar by both limiting you to only I think 4 or 5 distinct gods per run (you might be able to force the game past the normal limit using clever rerolling and the keepsakes, not super sure) and making boons have prerequisite boons, such that builds are naturally pushed towards synergies.
The above system could potentially even be the very system responsible for finding more evolved relics throughout the game, through something like: there's a small, baseline chance that new relics will be randomly evolved. Then, for every evolved relic you are carrying, new relics have a chance to be evolved with the same bead, or with some complementary beads?
Though, one thing I think is important to be wary of with a system like this is giving the player _too much_ control. I mentioned it earlier, but I honestly think this is one of Hades' bigger weaknesses: as an experienced player with all the keepsakes, the maximum number of rerolls, and enough skill to survive a long time without picking up boons for certain slots, I can _largely decide what build I'm going to use before I start the run._ Obviously I can't entirely force everything, I can't force specific Daedalus hammers and no matter how much I reroll and use appropriate keepsakes and just wait, I can't _force_ the game to give me a specific build, but except for builds relying on Duo or legendary boons (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, even those) I can largely get the build I want.
And I think this is bad for a roguelike, I think part of the great thing about roguelikes is that they don't just let you do the same broken strategy every time, they force you to use the tools are your disposal to overcome the challenges, rather than just go find the build you know works well.
*Second question:* I think one cool idea is to have the first evolution be this fanout, where you have a lot of choice with where to take the relic, but have subsequent evolutions instead mostly reconverge, like with the shield. So you can pick the light shield or the dark shield from the shield, but if you pick either of those, at that point you only have 1 path (joined shield). This makes figuring out which beads are "complementary" and pair up for each relic an additional thing to figure out, you could maybe have clues hidden throughout to this. Like, the first evolution step is a player choice, where you decide which way you want to take the relic. But then subsequent evolution steps are _puzzles_ where you need to figure out what bead pairs with the first step for this relic in order to evolve it further. Maybe you even can have longer chains sometimes then, almost forming miniature quests to undertake as you go through the run, trying to collect the right beads for a powerful several-evolutions-deep relic and evolve it with each of them.
*Third question:* No particular thoughts here, tbh. I don't immediately see any cool or strong reasons to allow or not allow devolving relics.
Anyway, Disinherited is coming along great and I think this general system is turning out both quite unique and very promising! The devlogs are always fun to watch, just figured I'd share some thoughts I have about roguelikes! :D
I saw the Owl Mask & thought what if there were More?!
Especially for the New Lunar Year, let’s have a Snake & Dragon themed mask in the game!
Beads for these ‘line’ of masks are Jade mixed with another Bead Type
Lunar Snake Mask
Bead - Flight & Jade
Player moves faster on the ground, boosts HP & how much HP Samuel loses to being hit when this mask is activated & equipped.
Lunar Dragon Mask
Bead - Heart & Jade
Sun Mask - Animal is a Dog/Wolf
Bead - Sun Stone
Works based on how much Lantern Oil you have with a 10% chance to stun Death when equiped.
Yeeessss yessssss!
I didn’t realize until today that ironically, that mask is one of the few that I DIDN’T make a “baby relic” for
The relic system just gets more amazing!
As always your developments are EXTREMELY captivating- and, as the local pokemon & rogluelike enjoyer, I can already feel myself becoming less and less normal about trying to find each combination of beads and relics, hahaha. You're doing amazing!! Thanks for the updates!! They're always so fun to watch :D
Oh cant wait to see this😅
Eevee mentioned, liked and subscribed 🔥
I also love devlogs, which makes this even more awesome
The synergies sound so fun. Im excited to learn about the other possible builds!
Amazing progression. Keep up the work! I’ve been with you since day one and I’m loving how everything is turning out.
Aahh thank you, that means a lot!
fusing items is such a cool concept. Can't wait to see what you are cooking up.
same
DUDE!!! THIS IS SO COOL!!! Can't wait for more.
Finally a premiere I won't miss!!
Hey I just started binging these devlogs and i have grown a fondness to this game! im excited for the steam release. 🥰
i have some small suggestions that could be pretty cool (mainly qol):
- for texts (like menus or descriptions) using italicization and color-coding, I think this could go a long way as a small detail
- a boss or npc that is fascinated in arctic or cryo related tech or theme, also having either a mech penguin or an alive penguin (more biased suggestion), or maybe even adding a temperature mechanic going into some areas that house other enemies
- Diary entries written by bosses or Charles that can be found throughout the bosses' respective area
- If you have low health, you constantly have a red vignette effect around your screen, vision appears hazy/delayed, faint heart beating noise at extremely low health
- Interesting idea for later stages of development: a seed number for each run, and when making a run you can import a seed that generates the same map based off the seed
- When you collect the absorbable items, make them smoothly tween/lerp into the player exponentially, and a small white vfx showing absorption
(mb if any of these are already implemented into the game as of writing this)
I love watching this game evolve since the game competition. This new addition is awesome and adds so much depth to the game
Such a great idea! (And I know not part the point of this video but the music in the background is sooo cool)
It’s part of the point in my book! Thank you :D
I'm so excited to see all the evolutions, these are gonna be so cool, all we need now is the next Disinherited build
Working on it! I’m building toward a Steam demo now 💪
The term for upgrading your relic should just be called Relic-lution 😂
4:30 Thready Threadbare 🧵🐻
I *love* this idea! I'm so excited for this!
Feels like the vids are coming faster and faster, it’s always a good way to start off thw weekend. Keep it up!
I love your videos they are amazing!
Love the new relic system can’t wait to see what you come up with
yay more videos !!
It's interesting how you backtracked to make the downgraded versions of your relics, it seems like a great idea
Can't wait to see them in-game!
Dope concept!
System sounds really cool!! So excited for the game
I absolutely love this series (I literally started watching this week and I'm in love with the game lol) keep it up man :)
4:33 cracked orb? YO the binding of Isaac reference let's go.
Oh, he is cooking! This will be great!
This game is coming together beautifully. Love the style, everything. Can't wait to explore Deaths Domain for myself.
Here's an idea:
Bone Shield - Increases defense with the amount of bones you are holding.
I thought this would be cool, especially paired with a pockets build.
But aside from that, the game is already surpassing what I ever would have thought to come from this. (Not that I thought it wouldn't be good) But the amount of content in this game while not even complete honestly astounds me.
Amazing work - that's all I can see.
Eevee should be a relic, though if you don't add it, then Lock should.
_Eevee plushy_
A copyrighted plushy
No one knows how it ended up in Deaths domain. Maybe it isn't just a plushy?
Grants + 1 bone slot
Loving it
this is what I love about terraria too I think combining items in games is so great
That's a really cool idea, and to further the theme, the idea that relics all start out as "tattered" fits narratively with the fact that your father cut you from his will, leaving you with naught but the tattered clothes on your back. So obviously, you are poor and any possessions you do have will be reflective of that, since your day job in-universe is as a starving artist (a poet).
this is incredible
Cooking up a storm as always
WOW eevee evolutions in Disinherited before GTA 6
guns plus empty tome equals TOO MUCH PROJECTILES
+100 for the unexpected David Graeber shoutout.
So now I'm just thinking that Samuel's father did so much trauma on that poor boy that he is sitting somewhere in an asylum. Samuel lives to be the hero of his own story with his own free will in his mind while playing with beads and old stuff (a cup, an old butter-knife) that he found in the asylum.
Can’t wait to decide if turning my red solo cup into a holy grail or a king’s chalice would be better for my run!
Something else this calls to mind is certain items in Final Fantasy that start out giving you a penalty, but if you use them long enough become something amazing. Which feels like it would be an interesting dynamic for a roguelike, where failure has serious consequences. Is it worth the risk of making the game harder for yourself now, in the hopes that you last long enough to see it become easier later? If something else good comes along for the same slot, do you throw away all the effort you've put into that item, or stick it out?
2:42 the bottom one looks like a pink bean
Cracked Orb???, Tboi reference definitely
You are very impressive - if you ever want to collab on a game I would love that!
Please do a Chess themed Relic in the future. :)
A Pawn that evolves into all the other pieces 🤯🤯🤯 (frankly a great way to include a lot of miscellaneous passive effects)
Ooooooooooo, very cool update
NOW its time to fix the health & light meters...
Would you consider doing a deep dive into your procedural generation system? It would interest (atleast me) immensily
😊
Wanna hear my idea that is totally kiwis? A [FORGOTTEN] relic to the game, that is themed around unlocking a upgrade possibility for your existing beads/relics. Ofc it is broken into 5 pieces. Ofc you have to retrieve all of the broken parts from the bosses. BUT that would offer an excellent opportunity for a plot twist >:]
This mystical relic could be a Pandoras box. of some sort. (Some Unbeatable boss or John Pork, idk)
please :>
Wheres. My. GHOST TISSUE.
I think the cracked orb looks good but maybe it’s too bright. If you darkened it I think it would look more worn and old
Bones 🤔