Weird Cards - Banned Legacy Cards Part 4

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 19 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ •

  • @massimorosner3496
    @massimorosner3496 2 роки тому +199

    I feel bad for Shahrazad... the card design managed to translate her story into MTG so perfectly... in her story, she tells the Sultan fascinating tales, leaving him in such suspense each night that he can't execute her the next morning for fear of not hearing the end of the story. After 1,001 of these well-told tales, the Sultan relents... it's so perfect!! The card hooks game after game, an in the end, the community just gave up and banned it. Crazy stuff

    • @chaosbuster1275
      @chaosbuster1275 2 роки тому +30

      It is definitely a flavorful card, and I believe Magic creator Richard Garfield said it was his favorite card. But, it was definitely not designed with competitive play in mind.

    • @jml6263
      @jml6263 2 роки тому +22

      Major flavor win. Maybe one of the best of all time. Absolutely horrendous when it comes to gameplay. (I like it as a card in a vacuum too)

    • @Kuronosa
      @Kuronosa 2 роки тому +8

      Wonderfully flavorful card...but a nightmare for competitive. Can you imagine playing 8 subgames and STILL finishing before time?

    • @fernandobanda5734
      @fernandobanda5734 2 роки тому +1

      All of that is good but if it doesn't play well, then it's not that good of a design.

    • @simonteesdale9752
      @simonteesdale9752 2 роки тому +9

      @@fernandobanda5734 I'd argue that there's a place for cards that are cool to read, but awful to play.
      Stuff like the holiday cards, or the playtest cards from mystery booster.

  • @Atmapalazzo
    @Atmapalazzo 2 роки тому +146

    Channel absolutely can't be unbanned. It's still able to give you a T1 Eldrazi Titan or Belcher kill with consistancy.

    • @dyne313
      @dyne313 2 роки тому +36

      I agree. I have no idea who thinks otherwise, other than the person who wrote this.

    • @danlorett2184
      @danlorett2184 2 роки тому +22

      Yeah whoever wrote this is way out of pocket. Channel is just a gigabroken card. No way you could unban it. I don't think you could unban it in vintage and vintage is way more busted than legacy.

    • @ericgasper6135
      @ericgasper6135 2 роки тому +9

      First thing I said when channel came up was "no chance channel could ever be unbanned. Better now than it was when it was printed."

    • @jadedheartsz
      @jadedheartsz 2 роки тому +2

      @@danlorett2184 it's not banned in vintage though

    • @jadedheartsz
      @jadedheartsz 2 роки тому

      @@ericgasper6135 not really no

  • @dem7556
    @dem7556 2 роки тому +36

    2:38 You don’t need a second lotus, just one mountain.

    • @Sodmaster111
      @Sodmaster111 2 роки тому +1

      Came here to say this also

    • @jjjj8644
      @jjjj8644 2 роки тому +1

      Or one Ape mana red generator

  • @viniciusduarte3420
    @viniciusduarte3420 2 роки тому +70

    It's nice to see that both YuGiOh and MTG share one thing in common:
    A card that draws two/three and discards three/two is WAY too powerful nowadays.

    • @Greg_Ulmer
      @Greg_Ulmer 2 роки тому +14

      Well, if it's for free and you can do it over and over every turn, yeah.

    • @anewfuture
      @anewfuture 2 роки тому +18

      Meanwhile, Pokemon, even 25 years later: Discard your hand to draw 7? Let us keep reprinting it with different names.

    • @petrie911
      @petrie911 2 роки тому +17

      @@anewfuture Well, they finally fixed the "different names" thing by making them all "Professor's Research" (and same with "Boss's Orders") to stop you from playing more than four. They should really do the same with "Rival" (draw 3 cards), but that card is so awful you don't even want to play one.

    • @belafeldbusch3397
      @belafeldbusch3397 2 роки тому +10

      @@petrie911that moment when you tell your tag friends that don’t know the Pokémon card game a free draw 3 is considered horrible in Pokémon is always priceless

    • @orangegalen
      @orangegalen 2 роки тому +3

      @@belafeldbusch3397 Even the draw 7 is still pretty mid. Not bad, not great, just solid mid.

  • @jameshonaker585
    @jameshonaker585 2 роки тому +70

    Channel can't be unbanned. You talked a lot about the various combos, but you don't need to set up combos; you just need something like Emrakul or a Blightsteel Colossus, and that's incredibly lethal. It would be way too dangerous to let Channel out with all of the ways to abuse colorless mana, and it would split Legacy in half.

    • @danlorett2184
      @danlorett2184 2 роки тому +11

      Channel is kind of the original, better, Oath of Druids. It's almost a one card combo (because it combos with so much stuff) but at least with Oath you kind of have to build your deck around it. Channel's only real deckmaking ask is being able to cast it. Absolute 0 IQ take that it could be unbanned.

    • @jadedheartsz
      @jadedheartsz 2 роки тому

      @@danlorett2184 quiet troll

    • @chaosky9
      @chaosky9 2 роки тому

      tbh as a legacy player this is just wrong channel would suck it's worse then show and tell which is an unplayable deck you would never beat delver. Think about it you turn 1 fetch channel, force it thought pay 15 life down to 3 life. wipe 0 perms your opponents controls they untap bolt or karakas and u lose since u cant combo again. Also your defending 5 life vs delver like gl? the deck would just suck. Actually play the format

    • @Metallicity
      @Metallicity 2 роки тому

      @@chaosky9 It lets you kill with Goblin Charbelcher, from 2 mana, it lets you Lattice lock that same turn with Karn the Great Creator, and there are tons of other big colorless cards you could run instead of Emrakul if playing it as just a cheaper Show and Tell. Blightsteel, big Karn, Sundering Titan, Ulamog, any other big Eldrazi, Planar Bridge, God Pharaoh's Statue, Batterskull/Kaldra, etc. Most of those will win most games when cast on turn 1-2, and stay safely out of Bolt range. Plus, "sometimes they'll draw the out" isn't a great argument that a combo is bad.

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      @@chaosky9 Channel doesn't let your opponent put stuff into play to mess with your expensive card. 2 mana versus 3 mana makes a world of difference; we have lotus petal in show and tell builds, but it needs a sol land to show and tell turn 1. Petal fetchland channel is way easier to draw with legacy cantrips and would absolutely warp the format because everyone would be on it in a blue green shell to have spell snares to counter channels.

  • @billberndtson
    @billberndtson 2 роки тому +24

    04:00 Anyone who had 20 Black Lotus' to make this deck now has a house.

    • @jessicaregina1956
      @jessicaregina1956 Місяць тому

      😂 maybe. And then maybe not. Silver queens and mox diamonds were 6 bucks once.

  • @KeroTheInvincible
    @KeroTheInvincible 2 роки тому +9

    Chaos Orb and Falling Star have equivalents in Magic's Un-sets, which include several cards that have non-standard interactions with the game mechanics. Everyone plays their cards on the table normally, but modern day flipping cards such as Slaying Mantis have the ability "Just a Second", which specifically prevent your opponent from physically moving their cards until it resolves.

  • @johnsheridan6027
    @johnsheridan6027 2 роки тому +49

    Channel could never really be unbanned, it’s basically a mini omniciense, a seven mana enchantment that usually just wins you the game

    • @davey_rulez7301
      @davey_rulez7301 2 роки тому +9

      omniscience is 10 mana

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому +4

      It's not just the classic channel fireball in 2022, there are a lot more colorless cards that you can channel out to just demolish people. It would be compounded by channel being a 4 of in legacy/it's way easier to build around versus in vintage you can't really play it as a 1 of.

  • @JaxMerrick
    @JaxMerrick 2 роки тому +6

    Shaharazad already has a "fixed" version. It's the Unstable card "The Countdown is at One". Loading Ready Run did a pre-release recap where they brought it up. Although, that was after a game where "Better Than One" brought Mark Rosewater into a Shaharazad subgame.

  • @stevenrhodes8338
    @stevenrhodes8338 2 роки тому +15

    I found it funny when he kept calling earthbond earthbound

    • @altacc5116
      @altacc5116 Рік тому +1

      earthbond immortal

    • @Manshara2012
      @Manshara2012 Рік тому +1

      He was doing it with Fastbond and Manabond as well, saying "bound" instead of "bond."

  • @IronRaku
    @IronRaku 2 роки тому +59

    There's no way channel is fine to be unbanned.

    • @danlorett2184
      @danlorett2184 2 роки тому +4

      writer's crackpipe must be molten lava by now thinking Channel could be unbanned

    • @jadedheartsz
      @jadedheartsz 2 роки тому

      @@danlorett2184 quiet troll

    • @jayredharpstudios9672
      @jayredharpstudios9672 10 місяців тому

      Yeah, Channel can be unbanned, Doomsday combo decks exist, and those are stronger than whatever Channel would be doing

  • @funnymcfunfuns1455
    @funnymcfunfuns1455 2 роки тому +32

    Unbanning Channel would make a turn 1 Emrakul extremely easy. Wouldn't that be an issue?

    • @bruhbruh4329
      @bruhbruh4329 2 роки тому +9

      Among other very, very silly things

    • @gerudo4sale861
      @gerudo4sale861 2 роки тому +3

      Only if you're not the one playing it

    • @honeyham6788
      @honeyham6788 2 роки тому +1

      you'd still need 3 mana to use the effect, and show and tell is a way better way to cheat out emrakul

    • @UwUItsHel
      @UwUItsHel 2 роки тому

      It's a legacy game state. It wouldn't be that busted because as he said the sheer amount of free counter spells means that to effectively get channel off would be rather difficult as the card has no real protection for itself and the other player isn't going to let a key piece of your combo go off. Legacy has other just as strong if not stronger combos already.

    • @Rukalin
      @Rukalin 2 роки тому +14

      @@honeyham6788 I don't see how either of those are true, channel costs 1 mana less than show and tell and it'll let you have the extra turn off Emrakul.

  • @epthopper
    @epthopper 2 роки тому +11

    Channel is absolutely broken and there’s zero way it could be unbanned. The ONLY reason it sees zero vintage play is that it’s a one of. With 4 copies it would be busted out the ass.

    • @danlorett2184
      @danlorett2184 2 роки тому +9

      Yeah as a vintage player even suggesting it could be unrestricted will get you laughed out of the room. Thinking Channel would be OK in Legacy is a literal 0 IQ take. Really makes me wonder if this man actually plays any of these formats.

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      Yeah channel as a 4 of in vintage would be so dumb, everyone would jam it hard and just go off casting all sorts of colorless bombs on the 1st or 2nd turn.

  • @melvinshine9841
    @melvinshine9841 2 роки тому +15

    So Bazaar of Baghdad is, essentially, a reverse Graceful Charity. Even if you put a HOPT on it, that card would still probably get banned in Yugioh for the exact same reason of easy graveyard set up.

    • @laszlokaszas1003
      @laszlokaszas1003 2 роки тому +1

      Ungraceful Charity:
      continuous spell
      Activate only one Ungraceful Charity per turn.
      Once per turn draw 2 cards, then discard 3 cards (or your hand if you have 2 or less cards in your hand)

  • @monkaWGiga
    @monkaWGiga 2 роки тому +53

    You can't talk about Chaos orb without mentioning the supposed inspiration for chaos confetti where supposedly a player ripped his chaos orb into pieces and threw them over the opponent's side to destroy everything they had.

    • @julianelehmann
      @julianelehmann 2 роки тому +13

      Part two of the legend is that the judge ruled the play legal - turned around and punished the player appropriately for having only 59 cards in their deck.

    • @laszlokaszas1003
      @laszlokaszas1003 2 роки тому +2

      I heard another legend where some players tapped their cards to the wall, and the judge allowed it.

  • @TogashiJack
    @TogashiJack 2 роки тому +2

    Possible fix for Fastbound: You may play any number of lands on each of your turns. Your lands gain a Mana Cost of X Colourless, where X is equal to the number of lands you have played this turn.
    Still lets you ramp, but at increasing cost

  • @Prince_Eva_Huepow
    @Prince_Eva_Huepow Рік тому +2

    Imagine Shahrazadception: playing her each time you draw her in a subgame. All that's needed is an enemy with a plethora or eyes.

  • @orangegalen
    @orangegalen 2 роки тому +9

    Also with Shahrazad, you can play multiple copies, so if in a mini game you play another Shahrazad, you would have another game inside a game inside a game - and so on if you play all 4. Worse if your opponent also plays them. So games would stall out and incite draws.

    • @kyuven
      @kyuven 2 роки тому +4

      Legend has it that a game of Commander with 5 players where each played 4 copies of Shahrazad is still on its 9th subgame.

    • @LieutenantDangleBerries
      @LieutenantDangleBerries 2 роки тому +2

      @@kyuven I played Shahrazad twice in a 5 player commander game. When the original game finally ended the store was closed, the employees had left, and we were locked in the game room.

    • @h3h3podcastclipper
      @h3h3podcastclipper 2 роки тому +2

      You can also fetch Shahrazad from outside the game using Wish effects, even if the card was on the stack.

    • @LieutenantDangleBerries
      @LieutenantDangleBerries 2 роки тому +1

      @@h3h3podcastclipper I used Spike Tournament Grinder to get both copies into my hand. I also fetched a Black Lotus and a Mox Pearl. Cracked the Lotus for 3 white and tapped the Mox. Played the first Shahrazad. After the mini game was over I used the remaining 2 white mana to cast the second copy. All said and done, I had 1 life on my turn 2 after losing both mini games. I then assembled my infinite turns combo and scooped in response to winning, letting the rest of the table continue to suffer.

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      In tournament mtg at tabletop events shahrazad is literally impossible to accomodate. You'd need multiple playing halls for it to work because normally people sit a couple feet apart, but a magic subgame still takes up the same amount of space as a regular game. It can get really silly space requirement wise.

  • @TheyCallHimPogo
    @TheyCallHimPogo 2 роки тому +10

    Just a small tidbit of info you missed.
    In the OG Days, decks were 40 cards minimum, not 60.

    • @rogerdodger1984
      @rogerdodger1984 Рік тому

      Not to mention even that long ago, there wasnt a ton of players sitting on 20 Black Lotus.

  • @OHYisWatching
    @OHYisWatching 2 роки тому +2

    I have enjoyed taking a shot everytime you spell something differently than usual, cant seem to be able to finish an episode without a slight buzz

  • @hilleleisenberg6382
    @hilleleisenberg6382 2 роки тому +7

    I feel you missed the Eldrazi titans when talking about channel, their clearly what you will play with it if it was legal, turn one Emrakul is always hard to beat, especially with the cast trigger. also can slot in to a show and tell shell to give you 8 vertions of the effect. mite not be busted but definatly worth the mention.

  • @petrie911
    @petrie911 2 роки тому +6

    Sharazad's biggest problem is actually space, not time. There simply isn't any room to play the subgame at a tournament table, as players sit next to each other to maximize the number of matches that can be played in the limited space of a tournament hall.
    Also, are you going to bother with ante and conspiracy cards or just skip them because they're essentially self-banning?

    • @KaseyWynne
      @KaseyWynne 2 роки тому

      I feel like he could just talk about them all at once, and do a short overview about ante, how it worked in magic, and then why it was banned, and then when ask if they could be unbanned, just say "absolutely not" and be done with it.

  • @ryenburns7054
    @ryenburns7054 2 роки тому +6

    Chaos Orb was always fun to play

  • @connorhamilton5707
    @connorhamilton5707 2 роки тому +5

    Shahrazad is banned for logistical reasons as well as being a stall card (especially when used with Wish effects that can pull the resolving copy into the subgame). When you start a subgame, you leave the game state intact, and while it can be compressed by putting everything in a pile to the side, it still takes up a lot of room and you still need to keep track of permanents attached to other cards, how many counters they have on them, any damage marked on creatures (that turn hasn't ended yet), whatever else happens to be on the stack if you Quickened or Forked Shahrazad, etc.
    That doesn't mean subgames don't work in the rules, and can't be made more reasonable. Unhinged, Unstable, and Unfinity have subgame cards that restrict how much life you start at in the subgame, allowing it to end much quicker, and they have meaningful rewards. In fact, Tug of War works completely within the rules of Magic, and is only an Acorn card because the designers felt like it should be, rather than for a mechanical reason, making it one of a couple exceptions to their plan for Unfinity of making all cards that function in Eternal magic into Eternal cards.

    • @ich3730
      @ich3730 Рік тому

      How can a wish card "pull the resolving copy into the subgame" ? that sentence is meaningless xD

    • @connorhamilton5707
      @connorhamilton5707 Рік тому +1

      @@ich3730 That sentence is perfectly fine and means exactly what it sounds like. CR725.4 is part of the subgame rules, and says, in part, "All objects in the main game and all cards outside the main game are considered outside the subgame (except those specifically brought into the subgame)."
      Then CR725.4a specifically mentions how some effects can bring cards into the subgame from the main game, while explaining how that interacts with triggered abilities in the main game.
      Burning Wish says "You may choose a sorcery card you own from outside the game, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Exile Burning Wish."
      If you cast Burning Wish in a subgame made by your Shahrazad, then Shahrazad, which is still on the stack resolving in the main game, is a sorcery card outside of the game, and is a valid card to bring into the subgame with Burning Wish. You can then cast Shahrazad in the subgame it had made to go into another subgame.
      As you can see, it makes perfect sense mechanically, even if it sounds completely insane initially.

  • @7Alberto7
    @7Alberto7 2 роки тому +2

    I love the concept of playing 20 black lotus in a deck🤪😁 amazing! Thanks for the video as alwais and merry Christmas!!!!

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому +1

      Yeah, you didn't even need channel fireball in that deck. A deck of almost all ancestral recalls and black lotus can just draw itself fully then deck the opponent with ancestral. No card limits is rather silly.

  • @dracosfire7247
    @dracosfire7247 2 роки тому +2

    The way I'd balance Fastbond is to make it scale with the number of lands you play, like a reverse Aetherflux Reservoir. Maybe make it double damage each time. It'd still be absurdly strong, but going infinite would need extra steps.

    • @herrabanani
      @herrabanani Рік тому

      It still would be insane. Even if it dealt 5 damage to you for each land it might still see play

  • @mazerinthemage2395
    @mazerinthemage2395 2 роки тому +2

    Chaos Orb, Falling Star, and Shahrazad are all legal in the Old School format :) Orb, and Star are errated to chose (Not target) a single card, to try to flip, and land on. It's my favorite format

    • @josephwodarczyk977
      @josephwodarczyk977 2 роки тому +1

      What format is this?

    • @slackwellman5499
      @slackwellman5499 2 роки тому

      @@josephwodarczyk977 old school

    • @mazerinthemage2395
      @mazerinthemage2395 2 роки тому

      @@josephwodarczyk977
      Old School :)

    • @ich3730
      @ich3730 Рік тому

      @@josephwodarczyk977 they mean "at the kitchen table with the boys". They are not talking about real tournament formats :D

  • @sagacious03
    @sagacious03 2 роки тому

    Okay analysis vdeo! Thanks for uploading!

  • @dylangrossman4873
    @dylangrossman4873 2 роки тому +1

    This is precisely what I asked Santa for

  • @Insanonaga
    @Insanonaga 2 роки тому +2

    Earthcraft could maybe be unbanned on its own power level, but the thing is WOTC has printed so many broken simic support cards recently that I don’t know how good of an idea it is. Having what really amounts to a faster splinter twin combo in the format with the ability to play cards like veil of summer and Uro with basically no deckbuilding restriction sounds pretty gross.
    Fastbond runs into similar issues, however they did unrestrict the card in vintage recently, with little to no splash in the format, making me wonder if the power level is closer to unbannable than not.

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      In vintage it's a very different beast for fastbond. They typically run way less lands and setting up infinite combo's with fastbond is way too hard in comparison to just winning with doomsday or something. In legacy it could be way better because in any fair matchup legacy lands would wreck people with fastbond. Fastbond is like manabond without the downside of discarding stuff you want to hold like sideboard cards. Even in combo matchups fastbond would be really sick at enabling stuff like thespian depths quickly to kill the combo player before they combo off.

  • @christophermccutcheon2143
    @christophermccutcheon2143 5 місяців тому +1

    Thassa's Oracle was a mistake to add to this game. It just adds too many problems by turning one of the game's only lose conditions into a win condition. The game isn't designed to be played with Thassa's Oracle, it's designed to be played in a way that Oracle shouldn't work, but then people find ways to make it work, and when they do the thing Thassa's Oracle is using to work gets fucking banned and not Thassa's Oracle. I don't know how many times Thassa's Oracle has come up in your videos and then the card it's taking advantage of gets banned from that format.
    It's legitimately the only card I would delete from printing. I wouldn't even delete Oko Thief of Crowns

  • @Syrahl696
    @Syrahl696 2 роки тому +1

    For Fastbond, would it be possible to fix it by making the Life cost scale up each time the ability is used, either each turn or each game? It would disable the infinites mentioned, effectively adding a soft cap to the amount of lands that can be played in a turn. Though I'm not sure if you might need to use counters to achieve that effect, and I believe there were some cards that interact with counters that might make it still busted.

  • @איתןשי
    @איתןשי Рік тому

    I just thought of a nice way to fix Shahrazad...
    Make it essentially a reset button for the game (but with all cards played or in hands going to exile) and restrict it to being played once each game...
    This would be a great emergency exit button for decks and would also provide a great combo breaker

  • @sskinner462
    @sskinner462 2 роки тому

    I would love to see a series over the top cards of each block (one block per list). Fairly new to the channel but love the content.

  • @Omenshaper
    @Omenshaper Рік тому

    The real fixed version of Consult is Spoils of the Vault, which is the exact same card, except you lose life first each card you exile with it. Not banned anywhere, not played anywhere. Plunge into Darkness is also a similar effect.

  • @chaosbuster1275
    @chaosbuster1275 2 роки тому +4

    Here’s why Channel shouldn’t be unbanned. Turn 1 forest into Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, or Elvish Spirit Guide. Then play Channel, and then play Emurakel the Eons torn.

    • @tychoMX
      @tychoMX 2 роки тому

      Exactly.
      Emrakul for sure, but even other egregious colorless high-mana cars are just too stifling. Platinum angel, Ulamog,
      Green "lands" decks are already strong for the different land tutors they have. This would be too much help. Dark Depths, Paradox engine, Ulamog, Karn-and-bring-an-artifact-from-the-Sideboard....

    • @2LettersSho
      @2LettersSho Рік тому

      ​@@tychoMX Karn, the Great Creator is especially silly off turn 1 channel, tutoring Mycosynth Lattice and casting it costs only 10 life and prevents your opponent from ever being able to tap a land for mana.

  • @bigfootfighter4132
    @bigfootfighter4132 2 роки тому +1

    “Playing another game within the game shouldn’t really be a mechanic”
    *Laughs in Karn Liberated*

    • @ich3730
      @ich3730 Рік тому

      Wait, but karn doesnt have anything to do with subgames? His ult is just a flavorful way of saying "you win"

  • @tmethe01
    @tmethe01 2 роки тому +1

    I feel like the channel unban take shows how much experience in a format like a cube can do to show the power of a card, and their lack of said experience is showing
    People don't channel fireball anymore, they channel emrakul or something else colorless and near impossible to interact with. The instant speed interaction is a fair point but it still would be too much for a 2 card combo on turn 2

    • @TheManaLogs3
      @TheManaLogs3 Рік тому

      👆👆Great Fan
      Expect more videos soon🎊🎊
      DM right away I have something for you...🎁🎁

  • @carlbutcher2268
    @carlbutcher2268 Рік тому +3

    I think Shahrazad could be fixed by making the subgame *not* be a game of Magic. I mean it's still not something you want to be doing in a competitive game but for an unset, the same effect would be logistically fine if you replace the Magic subgame with a game of Tic Tac Toe or Rock Paper Scissors.

  • @DarBowsong
    @DarBowsong 2 роки тому +1

    Shaharazad is also banned under the clause banning cards that reference ante from competitive play.

    • @MosoKaiser
      @MosoKaiser 2 роки тому

      To nitpick, actually doesn't seem like it. Shaharazad's mention of ante is only that the subgame caused by it has no ante. Cf. the banned, directly ante-related cards that interact with existing antes of a game being played.
      Right there in the banned cards list: 9 cards that reference playing for ante (no Shaharazad in linked Gatherer listing), then Shaharazad as its own separate entry.

  • @benskiies9340
    @benskiies9340 2 роки тому +3

    BOND. FAST BOND. Not bound.

  • @MrZerodaim
    @MrZerodaim 2 роки тому

    I think a simple fix for Fastbond would be to let you play unlimited *basic* lands and from your hand only. You could ramp quickly, but it wouldn't work with busted lands like Field of the Dead, you'd need to sacrifice the consistency of a non-basic mana base, and you wouldn't be able to do any of the sacrifice loops.

  • @OneOfThePetes
    @OneOfThePetes 2 роки тому +6

    "Fastbond", not "Fastbound".

  • @fernandobanda5734
    @fernandobanda5734 2 роки тому

    I already see a lot of people disagreeing on Channel, but I want to add that you DON'T need to wait until turn 2 or 3 to combo off. Chrome Mox or even just Lotus Petal makes this a non-issue. You can probably wait a bit to make it easier and/or get Veil protection, but if the coast is clear you just do it.

  • @fauxtool952
    @fauxtool952 2 роки тому +4

    I tried to lookup fastBOUND and manaBOUND on tcgplayer and nothing comes up!

  • @koenvandiepen7651
    @koenvandiepen7651 2 роки тому

    Hmm it is so fun to see demonic consultation beeing mentioned. I played whit it so much when it was brand new. And i have had so manny games where ppl laughed at me for removing basicly my whole libery from the game at the end of their turn. Only to realise they where 100% dead in their next turn. (also fun attacking ppl whit a boost creature and then seeing them not blocking because the tought you would be 1 dammage short. And then consulting for a darkritual and killing them at instant speed.)

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      In the late 90s it was used extensively with necropotence decks because they needed to find necro or they would be playing a bad version of mono black control. Such a sick card with a high skill ceiling, though with thassa's oracle it's a lot easier to use just naming rabid wombat or something.

  • @coooolibri
    @coooolibri Рік тому

    hey, ive been liking these videos lately.
    for earth craft with squirrel nest combo.
    just in theory. wouldnt it make sense
    that the land that is equipped with the
    aura doesnt count as a basic land anymore,
    since its not been enchanted with a spell.
    i feel like these simple logical things could
    solve some problems we have ruling wise,
    make the game maybe even more interesting.

  • @markusturunen7929
    @markusturunen7929 2 роки тому +1

    I have played one game where Shahrasad was played in commander before it was banned problem was not one sub game but copies of the sub games in stack we had a 4 subgame stack going on..

  • @theemathas
    @theemathas 2 роки тому

    If you're using Fastbond for an infinite combo, the best way is to use Hedron Crab with Oboro, Palace in the Clouds. This allows you to mill the opponent's library, assuming that you're at a reasonably high life total. This requires just 1 additional mana from the 1 mana for fastbond, and having a land be a combo piece means the opportunity cost is really low.

  • @willwithanxbox
    @willwithanxbox Рік тому

    Bazaar is so powerful that a Dredge deck could win with a mull to one with their starting hand being Bazaar. It will never see the light of day

  • @Solus3D
    @Solus3D 2 роки тому +1

    Cephalid coliseum is the fixed version of Bazar of Bagdad.

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      They have that crappy magus of the bazaar, 1U creature that has the same effect as bazaar. May have been used in extended dredge at one point, but I don't recall. Card is pretty awful now though.

  • @nightmare614
    @nightmare614 2 роки тому

    You guys should do a video about any card that was ever banned in standard and why I think it would be a cool history video. my favorite standard ban is that juggernaut was banned at on point when creatures were so weak.

    • @josephwodarczyk977
      @josephwodarczyk977 2 роки тому

      OK, in what world was this thing banned? 3 mana 1/1 format?

    • @dark_rit
      @dark_rit 2 роки тому

      @@josephwodarczyk977 Very early in the game because a 4 mana 5/3 was far above the curve. Dodging walls was just a bonus and mishra's workshop could cheat it out on turn 1 or 2 and people could not beat it or they'd take a pounding before finding an answer. Juggernaut was even playing in workshops in vintage in the mid 2000's as a way for shops players to close out a game quickly.

  • @pauljones7892
    @pauljones7892 2 роки тому +1

    You have a few things not entirely correct with Channel. First, it was restricted, not banned in March 1994. It was banned in November 1995 in both type I and type II as their B&R list was shared. It was banned in type 1.5 since the beginning in May 1996 since it also shared their B&R list with type I and type II at the time.
    Second, Channel wasn't banned because of the Channel - Fireball deck, (which would consist of 20 Black Lotus, 10 Channel and 10 Fireball, not 20 of each, as the minimum deck size was 40 at the time), because it would've been restricted with the first B&R list in January 1994 as that combo was well known by that time. It was restricted because of the fast mana it could produced. Channel was banned because of type II. Type I decks were moving away from Channel at that time, even red and green decks would not include it because of it's limited application, x-cost burn spells, and would included more versatile restricted green card Regrowth. However, in type II the power level was way lower and adding a Channel was a low opportunity cost to raise you chances of winning. It made some "First player to draw Channel wins!" games that the DCI wanted to cut down, especially with the Pro Tour announcement made a few weeks later.

  • @danielmcarthur8169
    @danielmcarthur8169 2 роки тому +2

    In edh at my game store, if some one plays shaharaza we just roll d20s and highest wins and everyone else losses 1/2 life

  • @rominou77
    @rominou77 2 роки тому +2

    Channel unbanned? T1 emrakul seems a little bit strong even with solitude

  • @DaveMustaine333
    @DaveMustaine333 2 роки тому

    This may be a really difficult task but what about "Top X cards that changed the way magic was played" or something to that extent.
    I really like learning how people break the game/sport they are in and change it.

  • @neroneroren6788
    @neroneroren6788 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad could have more restrictions to make it less of a problem but still a fun card. First of all you can only play Shahrazad once per game (including the sub game), so doesn't end into a MTG inception. Another is to simply move the current field and hand and play with a new opening hand without drawing new cards, but keeping the lands from the main game. Any cards should be played downwards so players know they are from the subgame (Specially if are playing more lands along the main game's lands). Reduce the subgame's life points to maybe 10 or 5, and I think that should be enough to keep the card's gimmick without being an absolute tournament mess. Obviously that means Shahrazad will have a massive wall of text but still.

  • @Aikisbest
    @Aikisbest Рік тому

    I wish there was a format (in Arena preferably) that was as restrictive with its power level as Standard, but either allowed all or most of the non-new sets or maybe only allowed sets not allowed in Standard, but mostly Id just like a format that extends the life-time for sets rotated out of Standard, but with a much harsher banlist as to not make the game into YuGiOh Solitaire like Legacy and/or Historic.

  • @TheLaughingMax
    @TheLaughingMax Рік тому

    I heard there was an instant where someone ripped chaos orb into pieces when playing it and then letting all the pieces fall over the enemy cards. basically every card was touching at least one piece of chaos orb...

  • @m2pt5
    @m2pt5 2 роки тому +2

    FastBOND, not FastBOUND.

  • @maskedfallen1331
    @maskedfallen1331 Рік тому

    Also people usally been doing glacial chasm+ fastbound as a way to easily abuse it.

  • @luizrafael7939
    @luizrafael7939 Рік тому

    Minigame is a crazy mechanic hahaha. Also, will this series explain that set of magic with crazy rules like slap oppo face? hahahahahaha

  • @EightMasterRobots
    @EightMasterRobots Рік тому

    Wouldn't channel fireball combo just change to channel banefire combo to avoid counters?

  • @feritperliare2890
    @feritperliare2890 Рік тому

    Maybe fastbound could’ve worked if it was 1 life for each land played before so the first is 0 second is 1 3rd is 2 and I don’t think there’s much life gain that can offset that
    But also just playing 4 lands would be enough to instantly take the game in many cases

  • @casabaixo
    @casabaixo 2 роки тому +2

    Use the original printing of the cards pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

  • @MrGaiakid
    @MrGaiakid 2 роки тому +2

    Why does he call it fastbound?

  • @RedOphiuchus
    @RedOphiuchus 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad has actually been fixed! 3 times! They're all un-cards, mind you, but they work pretty well and solve the bulk of the time problem by lowering your starting life in the subgame significantly and giving better rewards than just taking half of someone's life.
    Enter the Dungeon is the worst one, costing BB, starting at 5 life, and letting the winner tutor any two cards. Arguably worse than Shahrazad because you can tutor more Enter the Dungeons and that would be super annoying.
    The Countdown is at One costs 5 mana, sets the starting life to 1, and applies a permanent replacement effect that doubles damage dealt to the losers. The reward is pretty identical to Shahrazad except it doesn't work for loss of life based strategies and does work for infect. I'd say it's a decent fix if only because 1 life will make it go by so quick.
    Tug of War costs 5 mana, sets the starting life to 5, let's players start with 3 free permanents in the subgame, and then the winner gets to pick one of the 3 permanents they chose and put it into play for free in the main game. This one might be the fastest of them and the reward is pretty good.
    Obviously because these are un-cards they aren't tournament legal, and largely that has to do with the time and space logistics of shuffling up and playing another game parallel to the one in progress in a time and space critical location. But these effects are very fun and are generally loved by the developers and many players. We'll probably continue to see more of them made for casual environments.

  • @kennydarmawan13
    @kennydarmawan13 2 роки тому +1

    0:25 I-ke-rit
    1:51 There's Magus of the Bazaar, which costs 2 mana (1 generic and 1 blue). And the card's just okay.
    4:22 If there's still a need for a fix, just make the life payment 3, and/or it only works with land mana abilities.
    8:00 If one wants to fix Earthcraft, make the activated ability cost something. 2 life or 1 mana.
    8:07 I heard you pronounced Fastbound. It's Fastbond.
    9:29 Bond, not bound.
    10:16 Ah yes, MtG's wackily uncompetitive cards similar to Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Fiber Jar, Self-Destruct Button, and Victory Dragon.
    12:21 Here's a fix: Make only ONE subgame allowed via Shahrazad. Any other castings counter it and players can only cast it once per turn.

    • @danlorett2184
      @danlorett2184 2 роки тому +1

      Even with only one subgame you still can't unban Shahrazad. You just can't force players to play extra games in the same amount of time. Other cards were less bad in this sense (ie, wasting a lot of match time) and still got the banhammer (Krark-Clan Ironworks, Sensei's Divining Top).
      It is a 10/10 flavor card tho.

    • @krvys7226
      @krvys7226 2 роки тому +1

      First: it's well known he does mispronounciations specifically to get comments, and drive up engagement.
      Second: magus of the Bazaar is a creature that costs mana. Specifically 2 mana. This means quite often, your not getting that effect till turn 3, As opposed to turn 1.far to slow for that type of effect in the format.
      Third: your proposed fix to earthcraft that involves mana kinda defeats the point of the card altogether. Life I agree with. Or making it so you need to tap 2 creatures to untap 1 Land.

    • @kennydarmawan13
      @kennydarmawan13 2 роки тому

      @@krvys7226 doubt with the first one.
      None always get everything right.

    • @krvys7226
      @krvys7226 2 роки тому +1

      @@kennydarmawan13 I'm not saying all of them are the case. But it's a known trick he has used, especially when he pronounces one card properly in a previous video, and then says it wrong in a later one.
      Not saying there are not some legit mispronounciations as well. Cause that happens

    • @kennydarmawan13
      @kennydarmawan13 2 роки тому

      @@krvys7226 I see. Still, I doubt it.
      I don't see TheDuelLogs as a clickbaiter in any sort of the way.

  • @dracish123456789
    @dracish123456789 2 роки тому

    Vintage restricted list could be interested

  • @zacharysong2752
    @zacharysong2752 Рік тому +1

    What about divine intervention. That card is bizzare.

  • @theemathas
    @theemathas 2 роки тому

    Channel is a lot like Show And Tell, except it costs 1 less mana. This makes it a lot better than Show And Tell, even though Show And Tell is already the centerpiece of some competitive legacy decks already. You can just Channel out a huge eldrazi and you've all but won the game.

    • @chaosky9
      @chaosky9 2 роки тому

      tbh show and tell isn't compeitive and channels life total requirment is way to high think about it i you don't open the nuts your dead to delver+bolt. If you do open the nuts, you probably fetch and force so they untap play land bolt you for lethal. Also i they answer your threat once you cant combo again i have killed alot of ermakuls in legacy.

  • @TheSpiritombsableye
    @TheSpiritombsableye 2 роки тому +1

    What's a Fastbound?

  • @dollors1
    @dollors1 2 роки тому

    I read the text for Tainted Pact a dozen times and I still don't understand how it works?

  • @demonkingt
    @demonkingt 2 роки тому

    Sheesh a ton of green this video 😂😂

  • @rogerdodger1984
    @rogerdodger1984 Рік тому

    I dont remember really anyone having 20 copies of Black Lotus, even back then.

  • @Clonekiller66
    @Clonekiller66 2 роки тому

    I've come to refer to this content creator as "Logs" now.

  • @anewfuture
    @anewfuture 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad is the kind of card that I would want legal if there were both some stakes involved, and the game couldn't be called due to running out of time, as I think the card does have some strategic uses, but it's also a card I would never want to play in a casual game.
    But this is not practical, as games could take literal hours with Shahrazad, so it must stay banned. So sad.

  • @mtgpoland
    @mtgpoland 2 роки тому

    20 black lotuses... :-) nice

  • @taninrobertson2262
    @taninrobertson2262 2 роки тому +2

    Bruh it's fast BOND not fast BOUND

  • @dangerchrist123
    @dangerchrist123 Рік тому

    I wonder if Fastbond would be in a good spot with the life cost going up by 1 per land played in a turn

  • @nubnub8202
    @nubnub8202 Рік тому

    9:29 fast(BOUND) and mana(BOUND)

  • @RealTal.
    @RealTal. Рік тому

    first off, you got channel fireball combo wrong. they didn't use 2 black lotuses, just one black lotus and a land that tapped for red (like a mountain). Second off, channel fireball wasn't the first combo. All the pieces of the combo were printed in the first set, but the first official combo (official as in used in tournament) was prospobloom.

  • @Thestar17x
    @Thestar17x 2 роки тому

    There is a creature named magus of the bazaar which is a bazaar on a stick

  • @PrinceK0mali
    @PrinceK0mali 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad would be fine in Commander and has seen some off and on stints of it in the very early days of the format.
    The card is just miserable to play against if it just showed up randomly,

  • @nicolasalejandro3879
    @nicolasalejandro3879 2 роки тому

    Can you make a video talking about cards that have the same name in MTG and YGO

  • @plastictrumpet6862
    @plastictrumpet6862 2 роки тому

    tbh Shahrazad would be more interesting if it did something that made it reasonable to create an entire subgame, halving somebody's life total feels utterly boring. Might as well give something like yugioh match win cards. "Start a subgame of Magic, whoever wins the Subgame receives a game win on their score. The main game must be finished to determine the winner" Now when you get back to the main game, all the winner of the subgame has to do is win the main game to take a 2-0 win. Even funnier if more Shahrazads are activated as you watch a score somehow end on a 5-2.

  • @LordQuintix
    @LordQuintix 2 роки тому

    They made Jadzi, Oracle of Arcavios/Journey to the Oracle (a 2-sided card from Strixhaven) as a solution to Fastbond. Journey to the Oracle a sorcery that cost 2 colorless and 2 green that let's you play all your lands from your hand with the effect of returning it to your hand by discarding a card when you control seven or more lands. I can say that this requires you to think through your strategy, but the effort is worth it! An infinite combo paired with Storm Cauldron, a 5 mana artifact that allows players to play an additional land, but when that land is tapped for Mana it returns to your hand. Infinite mana and infinite land drops are still a thing in my book.

  • @fulanodominicano
    @fulanodominicano 2 роки тому

    OOOH... Top 10 cards that were competitive AND have an almost word for word copy in another card game.
    >.> There's a challenge for ya.

  • @WishMakers
    @WishMakers 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad is definitely my favorite Magic card but I would never use it. Not because I don't want to (I love chaos) but I wouldn't wish that upon my friends

  • @mattblom3990
    @mattblom3990 2 роки тому

    I wish I was the person who had a deck with 20 Black Lotuses and could now sell them off..

  • @Lalalalalaurie
    @Lalalalalaurie 2 роки тому +1

    emrakul on turn 1 or 2 with channel, absolutely not.

  • @johnlancaster2841
    @johnlancaster2841 Рік тому

    My man, no way Channel can be unbanned. Not even a little bit. That would be the most format-warping thing to ever hit legacy.
    While you make a point that FoW, FoN, and Daze exist, you would make it so that the ENTIRE format plays those cards to not die to Channel, plus the fact that Channel decks could also just start playing those cards to protect their own combo. So easily, Channel decks can turn one cast the spell into Emrakul. Sneak & Show can kind of do this in extremely rare fringe builds, but
    they don’t get the cast trigger of an extra turn. I can think of so many insane Channel decks and how ruined legacy would be with them, and this is coming from the Tin Fins player, a deck that is designed to kill your opponent on turn one.

  • @robertbadgley6291
    @robertbadgley6291 2 роки тому

    Channels biggest issue is currently that the fair use case and artifact casting has gotten a ton better. Aetherflux resevoire alone is a reason to be scared of unbanning it, though I do think it could be worth testing

  • @BatCaveOz
    @BatCaveOz 2 роки тому

    Won't the Squirrels created by Squirrel experience Summoning Sickness... preventing them from being tapped to activate Earthcraft... thus preventing an infinite loop?

    • @FranciscoJG
      @FranciscoJG 2 роки тому

      Summon Sickness prevents them to tap for their own effects/combat only. Other effects that tap cards for cost or even Convoke don't care for it unless directly stated (like Enlist iirc).

  • @jsum33
    @jsum33 2 роки тому

    Let this sink in: someone out there is either living below the poverty line or outright homeless that had at one point a deck with a bunch of Power 9 cards in it.

  • @h3h3podcastclipper
    @h3h3podcastclipper 2 роки тому

    Shahrazad could early be fixed by adding a "once per game" clause

    • @orangegalen
      @orangegalen 2 роки тому

      Also a “You cannot play “Shahrazad” during the sub-game”

    • @orangegalen
      @orangegalen 2 роки тому

      Actually never mind, since it’s already inside the main game.

    • @ich3730
      @ich3730 Рік тому

      How do you want to create the extra space for organizers?

  • @conorwasson4727
    @conorwasson4727 2 роки тому +1

    Fastbound lol

  • @LukeWhitlow
    @LukeWhitlow 2 роки тому

    Channel was never a combo with 2 black lotuses, the combo was a lotus and any red mana producing land. Describing it as broken because you could simply put 20 black lotuses in your deck is silly. Back in 1994 the cards were scarce enough that the only decks you saw running more than 4 copies of were commons like lightning bolt

  • @aidenpearce6624
    @aidenpearce6624 2 роки тому

    Who needs Fireball for x=20, when you can pay 18 Life into channel to get Crackle with power for X=4?!

  • @gorsedh
    @gorsedh 2 роки тому

    20 lotus in a deck, very affordable