Hidden flaws in vintage wooden planes.
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Find the problems that can make wooden planes unusable. Find them BEFORE you buy.
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Few years ago I bought a job lot of wooden planes on ebay for under £1 each (some were missing blades, some wedges). They were all made by the same UK manufacturer who is still going though they no longer make planes. I figured nothing to lose so reached out to see if they had any old blades lying around. Initially spoke to a young lady who was very helpfull with loads of info but eventually I got handed over to a chap that was on his final day before retirement. He remembered actually making the planes and was sure there was a small box in a corner of the factory with some blades. End result was I got 6 brand new blades for the cost of 6 first class stamps! Only ever tried seting one up and it worked great. I managed to get it taking shavings in construction grade pine that were almost transparent.
Who was the UK maker???
@@alexanderguestguitars1173 I honestly can't remember Alexander and can't find the emails I exchanged with them either. There was a label on the side of the plane but it is pretty scratched up and I can't make anything out on it - sorry.
@@daveturnbull7221 Ah no worries. Thanks for looking
“More than meets the eye.” This channel continues to provide a lot of that “more” week after week and year after year. The new shop seems to have recharged this amazing and gracious teacher.
I just got done making a panel razing plane at the WoodWright school. You guessed it, a diamond piece of ebony for the strike button. Fun class and you are correct, the fit of the iron to the plane and wedge is critical. I would have added a picture if there was a way. Keep up the good work.
My great grandfather was a carpenter and homebuilder and made all his own planes. My dad lived with him as a child and said he had hundreds. He never used any power tools, and sharpened them all on a foot pedal powered wheel. Sadly, none of those planes survive as far as I know. I really wish I had some of them now. I do have his brace though.
I swear I learn more cool stuff from these forensic deep dives than from anything else. Great video, Rex!
Rex, I’m so glad you’ve plugged Abraham’s work. He’s doing really great and educational stuff. And thanks so much for this video! Wooden planes are where it’s at, imho.
What is the link to Abrahams channel. ? I couldn’t find it
@@htakhar ua-cam.com/users/WorkingWoodenPlanes
ua-cam.com/users/WorkingWoodenPlanes
@@htakhar ua-cam.com/users/WorkingWoodenPlanes
@@htakhar On UA-cam, search for Working Wooden Planes.
I've been a somewhat silent viewer for a long time and have learned so much from Rex. I especially appreciate these videos since used metal body planes have skyrocketed in price in recent years. A future video concerning transitional planes and what to look for / avoid would be an excellent addition to your tool review type videos. I recently picked up a transitional Jack plane and while it is ok, I think I could dial it in even more. Again, wonderful work Rex! Keep it up
Excellent episode, feels like a hidden Furniture Forensics. Love these, love the discussion and observations and history.
"Sandusky was a major producer of wooden planes"
Hey! The wooden hand plane I just bought was a Sandusky!
"These were made with prison labor"
Oh...
The whiplash I experienced with this episode omg
Hopefully this idea of needing a near perfect fit with a likely original iron will spread like wildfire, reducing the price of perfectly salvageable wooden planes for the rest of us
One of my favorite things about your new space is how chuffed you are with it! Absolutely worth it! Most of these tips don't really apply in New Zealand (rarity/expense of hardwood and lack of vintage tools) but I love watching anyway!
I love it when you do this type of video. The history is fascinating! Thanks again Rex
As a hobbyist with a mechanical engineering background I have the time and skills needed to perform heroic restorations, and I have successfully revived several 'beyond all reasonable hope' wooden try planes. I am usually a strong advocate for 'they were made to be used, so use them' but in the case of such a unique and historically interesting item I completely agree with your decision to preserve it in it's current condition. Could you also consult with your neighbour and record their knowledge of the plane's history and then research local archives to see if you can find records of the former owner(s). If you uncovered a specialist trade that explained the very course saw teeth marks it would really increase the interest of the plane (and would make a great 'forensics' video). And I will be more informed about identifying rare planes, and deciding when preservation is the better options, thank you Rex 😀
That is so cool. I agree that this plane should be a museum piece. But I would definitely clean up and sharpen the blade. Maybe use a little wax to protect it from rust. Then proudly display it in your shop.
Some call that alternative Spiderman grip.... The shocker.
I love the look of wooden planes. Even if I can’t restore them they look great!
"You don't want to be heroic" Very well said
You saved me a few bucks and some headaches. I still haven’t found one that is in tact enough for me, but I avoided buying more than a couple that didn’t have the original blade, missing wedge etc… thanks
If the price is right I wouldn't let the iron or wedge stop me from buying a plane. Boring beetle holes in the body would be a show stopper though. Unless I just wanted to nick the iron out of the plane. A good iron alone is worth a couple bucks.
All of us who deeply love the people/work/pieces and history of the incredible craftsmen of old. thank you Rex for these type videos. I'd love to just become remotely as skilled as many of these men. The stuff they "just had to know" is incredible to me.
WoW, I've been shopping old wooden planes for a few months now and your excellent on point. Thanks for this post Rex...great stuff :)
You have no idea how timely this content is for me. I am trying to build my initial hand plane arsenal and have begun looking at vintage wooden planes, especially the #7 types since the Stanley's, etc. have become soooo expensive..and you still have to restore them. But after looking at several (dozens?) of wooden planes, I realized I did not know what I was looking at or for, except the above mentioned type #7 jointer. Your tutorial hit the jackpot with me! Thank you much. I've watched most of what you've published and enjoy it immensely. I also love the way your channel is growing. Cheers from an ex-Ohian!
When I first started woodworking and watching your channel, I was also most interested in metal planes. They were all over the place, and if you kept your eyes open and looked, you could eventually stumble across some pretty sweet deals.
Since then, it seems kind of like all the "forgotten" planes have been found and now reside in someone's vintage plane collection. At least *some* people are actually using them. :)
So, yeah, people are turning to whatever else they can find (transitional and wooden planes).
have a decent collection of wooden planes. just got out the scrub plane the other day and made some shavings just for fun. Used the shavings for fires starter later.
I love this video. I like this more relaxed, calm and informative version of you. Great content sir!
Thank you Rex! I really enjoy these antique history lessons!
About the echo. If you hang some cork, eggshell foam or carpet on the wall it will help eliminate it. You many also want to consider having a good sound guy come in and help you tune the EQ on your microphone.
My #1 favourite woodwork channel. Dare I say favourite channel in general? 💖🙏
As a wooden plane first user, I like this :^) I remember you made a video about wooden planes and thrift store finds last year, which I've used when I bought old wooden planes.
I'm really a fan of your tool and furniture forensics videos. Keep them coming. I have a very long 30" jointer plane by A.Howland NY made of beech. It is in very good condition but the iron is not original. I have been able to fix all issues and actually plane wood with it, except for the slight skew on the sole. I have nothing long and straight enough to fix that!
I love this kind of content from you (the table from your neighbor's porch was great too). Cheers!
The broadly spaced teeth suggest that the saw being set was a rip saw. They commonly can be found with lower TPI counts. The Disstonian Institute discussion of the Disson No.7 indicates the lowest PPI is 4, which would be 3 TPI, IIRC. So, likely the plane user was cutting his lumber to width and approximate thickness, as well as to length.
Suggestion. Untill you get a few more things in your new shop. Temporarily hang a blanket up in a couple of places. It'll stop sound from bouncing. Reducing the echo
Always enjoy the back stories you tell about a tool or piece of furniture. Sure someone didn't major in history? With a minor in tool archeology? Great stuff. Thanks
Great review Rex, really enjoy your videos and presentation style! I have always wondered why the planes I have have tons of hammered-teeth marks on the side ... now I know! We have a huge trunk that my great-grandfather built as part of his apprenticeship that is full of both wood and old metal planes, plus saws, drills/bits, spokeshaves, and other things a craftsman would need, each in it's own slot/drawer/etc. There is a complete set of pre-lateral Siegley planes (4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14) along with twice that many wood planes, all with apparently original irons, all of them extremely well-used but well cared-for. I never noticed it before, but all of the wood ones have off-center totes too.
Great decition, thanks for your efforts!
I`ve picked up my first three wooden planes in the two months and they are great. I have a coffin smother, a plough plane and a skewed rabbet or rebate as we say here in the UK. I`m looking to get a jointer next.
The trick to buying used tools is look to get whatever you can get. If the price is right go for it. Otherwise you'll be buying at not so nice prices.
Hola! 🖐 Really, really cool video. I always learn so much. Looking forward to see how your shop is coming along. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 👊
Wow. I have been using wooden and iron planes for nearly 30 years and never knew that plane bodies were once used to set saw teeth! I am going to check mine tonight and see if I can find marks left behind from this procedure.
loving the familiar backdrop in the new shop!
Excellent forensics!!!
Cool video Rex. I immediately went down to my shop to take a closer look at my wooden try plane. It has an offset handle😃. No disjointed color between the wedge & body😍. And "only" half a dozen wormholes in the sole 😔.
Great explanation and cautionary things to look for,especially in the throat area.
Thanks for the info Rex. I just bought 4 wooden planes a few weeks ago. One I know is all original, the other three probably are, but I'll have to take a closer look at them. I've got some old blades/breakers that I can use to make my own planes at some point. I doubt I will, but I just might.
An episode showing clenched nail furniture construction would be appreciated. Proper traditional woodwork for humans.
English literature..... which always includes a little history.
Bonus content, really great old time pro tip. 5 stars.
I've redone a few n love the wood on wood n see why they made the transitional (which I have a Stanley 27 and just love the best of both worlds!) to change their minds
Hang some bed sheets or other fabrics around the shop (especially the ceiling) for a quick and cheap acoustic panel. Should help with the echo a bit.
Pretty interesting history indeed, Rex! 😃
But I would've tried to make it work... Just to see how it worked!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Another great upload
I agree with your decision. That plane is special and should not be modified. Fantastic epidose! Love your analysis!
Greetings Rex, I find your insight into antiques amazing and the rest of your videos are great. The echo thing is almost not noticeable till you mentioned it. Try hanging a towel over a coat hanger somewhere in the middle of the shop. Sometimes even the smallest piece of cloth or fabric can make a huge difference.
Oh, I did that! Bunch of sheets and blankets behind me. Thanks, though.
@@RexKrueger Some Ikeas have panels suspended from the ceilings in different positions and heights. I suppose they break sound waves. Maybe they are not expensive.
It's a beautiful plane. My thought is the way to restore it is to fabricate the period correct iron for it and fit it to match the plane. Based on where the block fits you could figure out the right thickness and shape for the iron and where to braze on that brass button to tap the thread into.
Great idea!
I don't think the slot on the wedge would make any difference, so probably no need to braze the brass on to the iron. Given that the iron isn't original, the easiest thing would be to just file the head of the screw down until it fits. It looks to have a lot of meat on it. Might have to recreate the slot if a lot of filing is needed, but also fairly straightforward.
@@ricos1497, that's true for the functionality of the plane. But my thought was to restore it to period original. Either way works, just depends on your goal.
like the history lessons here! Thank you
For your acoustic challenges, make some pegboard panels (like 2’x4’) with some damping inside. Just two on the visible walls will make a giant improvement. And a rug underneath you. You’ll sound better right away. Yes, the acoustics of your space are very fatiguing. You are correct.
Welcome back!
OK, I joined while I was watching. I've enjoyed all your videos that I've watched. 🙂
You're the Sherloc Holmes of vintage woodworking tools!
Kudos too, not even studying your plane videos, I looked up a wooden tool for sale on CL and knew enough to not bother considering picking it up because it was too specialized a plane for what I would use.🤔
i seen a few with the saw set marks on them , but never knew why some one would pecker up the sides like that ,,, closest i figured was for extra grip ,,, cool history fact ,,, seen a old guy set a saw on one end of a robuo bench , that way , guess any true flat hard wood surface you could clamp a hold fast to would work
Nice catch
Me personally, if I were just moved into a new large warehouse type location for a makers' business. I would dedicate an area with a entry point were customers come in, have all vintage and antique tools on custom stands with or without a glass casing for display
Not a bad idea. Not bad at all.....
It's interesting how the plane situation deffers in US and Europe. When I grew up, I only knew wooden hand planes. Both grandfather and father had and used them. When you go to any home improvement store here, you'll only find wooden planes or electric ones. For anything else you have to go on specialized online store.
I only found out about metal/cast iron planes few years ago, when I got interested in woodworking and started watching foreign videos.
That's pretty strange, i think. In Norway, if you want a plane, there is pretty much just a very cheap stanley number 4 plane with terrible quality, plastick parts and an iron that's soft like butter. You can't get any wooden planes in any normal hardware store around, only in special stores, online or used. I manged to get a whole lot of good used planes with irons intact, though.
I've got two handmade planes. One has been kept in its original condition for that very same reason, the other I've fully restored. The former is easily 150 years old, the latter was sold to me by its maker who no longer hand the hands to use it. Beautiful piece of yellow birch with walnut handle and inlay, rounded iron. Both a worker and a show piece, since that was the deal
Could also be a traditional fore plane, more like an 18th century version of a no.6 perhaps - with wooden planes, fore planes played the intermediate role of cleaning up the rough jack plane work, so that the huge and heavy jointer had to do less work
Wish I saw this video just 24 hours ago. Just bought a coffin style smoother and it looked really good. After I brought it home and doing a little research after the fact. The wedge is broken. As of now I bought a decoration. It's ok I write it off as a learning experience. It's cool stuff. Thanks for your videos.
Now learn how to make wedges. I have a wooden plane that kept clogging up so I made a new wedge for it and it runs good now. So I must have done something right. It's just a woodworking project. Might even be easier to do than it looks. I don't recall it being so hard to do.
@@1pcfred Good idea. We are wood workers by trade or by hobby which is me. No pressure, nothing to lose. Thanks for the inspiration Paul.
@@frankstalteri972 yeah just go for it. That's what I did and it worked. Better than I'd thought it would. I suppose I got lucky in a lot of ways making mine. Fortune favors the bold though. Just don't be too bold. You do have to chisel on a pretty small piece of wood. So I'd recommend you work hold that while you're doing it. I blocked the piece up in my vise to work it. Now I'm no expert but I think one secret of plane wedges is they're not made out of the hardest woods known to Man. Hard enough but not too hard. Not so hard you blow the cheeks out of your plane body. But hard enough it doesn't split when you strike it to set it. So have a good think about what wood you use. I wish I could tell you what I used but I used some mystery wood I cut down myself. Not being a botanist I don't know all my trees. I know the crap don't split worth a damn. Had some troubles with that. Does carve nicely though.
Thanks for the tip about brass bosses. It seems that my wooden planes are all older than I thought.
Always especially enjoy these episodes about a specific piece of furniture or tool. Having details of the craftmanship pointed out, particularly when combined with the historical context you present, really opens a window into the tradition that feels uniquely valuable. You even managed to include some practical purchasing advice with this one! All much appreciated.
I am almost thinking this was a factory made plane that was modified and repaired
cut short to fit a smaller toolbox (I've been tempted to do this myself)
mortised square strike button to replace the damaged round strike button
then someone even less knowledgeable put the wrong iron in (found that a lot in flea market planes)
still works better than most harbor freight planes as-is...and MUCH better once flaws identified and repaired
Loved it!!!
Excellent knowledge Rex, plane to see! LOL. Very interesting.
5 TPI is really coarse for a crosscut, correct. But it’s pretty common for a rip cut saw-those need to be set too. Why assume it’s for a crosscut?
Yet another great vid
0:12 Re: Echo. You need that makers sticker in the background.
Hahaha dabbling into wooden planes is pretty fun, especially with making wedges or even bodies. I've had to both straight up make a couple new wedges out of cherry to replace missing or ill fitting ones due to replacement irons or attrition from time. I'm also making a new non laminated body for a large double iron, probably also out of cherry with a purpleheart sole. Gonna match the low 40 degree bed that the original had.
The bodies have a lot of subtleties and I've messed up a couple good blanks I've made, but it's a ton of fun
If you're still into making your own plane irons, I was able to make a very nice scrub iron out of a used up table saw blade, angle grinder,file/bench grinder/whetstones and a torch (I may have also used a drill press
Share the making on UA-cam 🙂👍
Holy Moses! That looks like the one I inherited from my grandfather. He made it shortly after he came to the US. I believe the irons came with him from Czechoslovakia.
This is very interesting Rex. I do hope you quizzed the neighbour about provenance and if she perhaps had that 5tpi saw. I am thinking that it must have been a two man rip saw and that the user was probably working from rounds. Is there anything of note about the tote besides its placement? I was wondering if its size or shape might say something about the maker.
That the iron doesn't match the body suggests that the iron was swapped out sometime after your neighbor's grandfather passed away (either that or he got it that way which seems unlikely given that he was a pro). Perhaps, when he passed, as people were evaluating his collection they inadvertently swapped irons. If it was me, I'd ask the neighbor if that is possible and if so try and get the irons and their bodies properly married again.
Glad that you're not going to mess with the plane!
Great lesson on wooden planes.
I'm super stoked that I FINALLY found a really, really nice, clean full length jointing plane for $40 with its original wedge, tight tote, and clean iron. It took FOREVER to find.
And then I realized I'd already bought a benchtop 8 inch WEN jointer (holy crap is that tool worth the money) so I just jointed the bottom of the jointer, lololol.
1/64th of an inch off and it's flat as the earth isn't. Even with a real power jointer, I still find uses for it everywhere. There's something to be said for not needing to spend 15 minutes setting up a tool and the dust collection for a single job.
When I figured out how use a jointer plane, all planes for that matter, I sold my jointer. I needed the space, no more dust, no noise and I needed the exercise anyway. So happy now.
thanks for the video. 5 tpI (on one side), so that would make it 10 TPI total, No ?, but I don't have a view as good as yours, so I might be wrong.
I pick up a $5 wooden plane at the flea market it was fairly close to junk I mean it was... and looks like it was sharpen with a chainsaw. But it still worked good enough for fast thick shavings. But beyond a scrub plane it's junk. I've seen a bunch over they years but never seen one that was actually in great shape.
My Dad gave me most of his tools when they downsized to an apartment. Amongst the tools was a plane very similar to the one you’re talking about here. I spoke to him about it, and he remembers (he’s 93 now) the plane in use as a shooting plane exclusively when he acquired it. I have two blade sets (a Marples, and a Sorby) for it. One had feathered edges, like a normal bench plane, and the other is straight to the corners, which I interpret as the shooting blade. Perhaps your plane’s handle offset was because it was a shooting plane. Is the blade sharpened square in the corners?
You can decrease your echo by hanging your microphone on your collar instead of further away, then decrease the input volume slightly. I used to be a freelance location sound mixer for broadcast news and talk shows, etc. Helped a bit. But also hanging moving blankets around walls that aren't seen. The ceiling would reflect sound a lot too. Thanks for the tips.
By the way, the echo isn't so bad. Doesn't distract.
Wonderful knowledge share 👏
Like deployed 👍
The wrong iron problem has happened to me twice (more or less). One was wrong wedge and iron but it came in a lot of planes and I wasn't worried about it. The second was a transitional smoother. I knew looking at it but I wanted a transitional smoothing plane so bad I was going to grab a different iron online and make it work.
Thank you. This piece of media provided.
You could have the wood analyzed for it's age. 💖🌞🌵😷
Wow, you're like a csi of tools!
I wonder if there is a Detective Rex in parallel universe 🤔
"Judging by the skull fracture, it's obvious the killer used a wooden plane with an incorrect iron"
Rex, are you the LockPickingLawyer? Your voices are so alike, that I can't help thinking of you when I watch one of his videos...
Thank you.
I find a good proportion of wooden planes have non matching irons and hold on to them, there aren't that many sizes and sooner or later a matching one crops up, a bigger problem is non matching wedges.
I assumed all of my planes were British made however one looks just like that yellow birch, I'm going to have to give it a closer look.
I've made wedges. It's not as hard to do as it looks.
@@1pcfred TBQH I've not tried making one for a old plane.
@@Matt_The_Hugenot before I made a plane wedge I imagined it was pretty challenging to do. Having made one I don't recall that being so much the case. So I clearly have an overactive imagination.
This video FINALLY made me give up on my unicorn plane. It was once AMAZING. Hand made continental europe style beechwood smoother with a hidden wedge dovetailed birch burl horn and an wavy grain ebony sole. Yeah. Wavey Grain Ebony. It looks amazing. But there is almost nothing left of the iron or it isnt original, the mouth is too wide in every direction and any attempt to fix it would mean messing more with the sole. So much i might have to replace it... and then i might as well make a new one.
So what I wanted to say was; thank you.
You can buy a better plane than that *brand new* from a factory named Pinie in Lubna, Moravia, Czech Republic, for 60 Euros.
It is on Amazon.
Two inch blade and a genuine hornbeam sole. Frankly it looks almost exactly like an Ulmia plane which is a German traditional tool company whose plane will run you _three times_ as much.
Granted, the Ulmia has inset metal bolts to hit with your hammer to set the blade position. I don't think that is worth triple the money.
Interesting video. Almost all woodworking seems to begin with establishing a flat surface on a tool. From there, you can get the rest of basic joinery. However, I can't find any reference that speaks to how wood planes were initially flattened before industrialization. Just thinking about it, some minerals fracture flat, so that might give you a reliable reference surface. Alternately, if you mixed a loose slurry of concrete in a box, it would settle and dry flat. Or you could pour molten metal, let it dry flat, and put sand on top to then sand wood flat. This might be used to sand a plane relatively flat. So, any information you can share on how wood was initially flattened for toolmaking?
Hey so a little while ago i made myself a diy vise out of a old scissor Jack from an old car, thought maybe it would be something you'd like to try yourself and possibly make a video for others to try
Rex in previous videos you've discussed a certain continental European plane. Sorry name slipped my mind. But it has a "handle " up front similar to a Horn as opposed to the more seemingly common round "Stanley" style
So my real question is. Would that be reasonable addition to a longer 16" to say 24" wooden plane?
Curious because I haven't seen it
Blessing aboundant and well wishes!
Crawford out 🙏🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
Speaking of echo, the channel Tech Ingredients has several excellent videos on acoustics, including some about the best materials for DIY acoustic panels. You might check them out.
That was brilliant! I never knew that before the saw-set was developed people used the side of their planes to set their saws. I've also been wondering about the timber used in American wooden planes. I know European ones were made of beech, but I didn't think beech (as a timber) was that common in the US. So that information about the yellow birch being the earliest plane timber there, then going on to beech is fantastic. I also didn't know that most American planes were factory manufactured. Over here, I believe(d), planes were made by apprentices, to test their skills, and to provide them with a useful tool they didn't have to pay for (bar the timber and the iron). But maybe all the planes you get over here are actually AMERICAN ones!?! That's an eye opener. No wonder plane makers over here like Spiers, Mathieson and Norris had a hard time competing with all the factory produced American (?) wooden ones, with their cast iron "upper crust" planes. Then when Stanley came in with the Bailey pattern planes - GAME OVER. Really interesting stuff. And I shall be checking out Abraham's channel. Cheers!