Reminds me of when I was teen working as a mechanic at a GM dealership in the late sixties. Basically they were denying repairs on lots of cars, I asked the factory rep didn't GM care about the cars they made. I remember vividly his response. "Kid, GM doesn't make cars, they make money." I replied they make their money selling cars they make and this was no way to keep customers. His response was, "A new customer is born every minute." AMC was the only car company I worked for that actually cared for their customers, and they are no longer in business.
In 2006 I saw some GM labor operation codes “commission pay” cut by as much as 50%. I used to be a GM fan but I tell people now if someone gave me a GM product 2006 or newer I would sell it before my name was on the title.
I would have said ' Yes but how much money did you make from that newborn customer who bought from your competitor because you forgot where that money comes from.'
Before the first bolt is ever torqued down on the transmission, designers and engineers worked on it first. They are part of the workmanship that went into building the transmission
@@joeennis2571 Probably, now that Beijing Biden will be in the White House. I mean, it worked so well the *last* time he was there, why not do it again?
It's a classic tactic of "Too big to fail" politically well connected businesses. Capitalize (or privatize) the profits and socialize the losses. Capitalization of profits is the use of a corporation's retained earnings (RE) to pay a bonus to shareholders in the form of dividends or additional shares. This is not typically a problem. Profits are up... pay your investors a reasonable amount and hold some back for when things get lean. Loss socialization is where things get skeevy. Loss socialization generally comes from some type of government intervention when the company in question didn't hold back enough profit and-or didn't properly care for the market for its' products. They should apply for Bankruptcy protection and either go out of business or reorganize and come up with a payback scheme so they, and businesses in general, learn from their mistakes. Instead they get "bailed out" by all of us and make zero, or very small, changes to the practices that caused the problem. As long as we continue to elect the Kleptocracy to public office that tactic will be repeated like a scratched skipping record. When the theft from the public coffers is truly threatened you'll see the whole political machinery of the country used by the Kleptocracy to squash the threat with extreme prejudice.
Ford has a design problem in their 12th gen F150. 2009 - 2014. Myself and neighbors on both sides of me have them and cab corners rust out. Huge problem when you research online. Mine is a well maintained 2014 and cab corner is rusted out. Problem is an obvious design flaw. Intentional to promote the aluminum bodies they had coming out, hmmmm? My 2003 4runner didn't have any serious rust when it was 12 years old before I sold it but my 2014 F150 does with 80,000 miles on it. Very frustrating.
GM sees every person as a potential customer, until they buy a GM vehicle. After that, they are a potential liability. A few years ago, GM turned all warranty administration over to contractors, whose only mission is to transfer as much warranty costs to the dealership. There is no interest in customer satisfaction after the sale from the contractor or General Motors.
It would not be out of line for Honda, Toyota, Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru), Nissan, Hyundai, etc to base executive pay on share value. That's how it's done.
In late 2005 I bought a brand new Chevy Colorado. It developed an oil leak by the time it hit 28,000 miles(too late to file for lemon law). By the time the truck hit 36,000 miles and the basic warranty expired, the cylinder head gasket had been replaced 3 times, the cylinder head was replaced once, and the mechanic and service advisor admitted that it was in fact the block that needed to be replaced. With sand casting, sometimes you get stray sand that ends up making components “porous” so oil can seep through the metal. This is what happened with my truck. But, Chevy refused to replace the block since the warranty was expiring and instructed the dealership to replace the head gasket, yet again. I have purchased 7 new vehicles since then and not a single one has been or ever will be a GM made vehicle. This video shows me that GM has not changed so I will continue to not buy GM products. Yes, every manufacturer makes mistakes and builds something defective sometimes. To me, how they respond is more important than the mistake. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and GM, you have failed.
I was going to buy a new at the time 2018 Corvette. After researching it, I discovered the 8-speed automatic transmission issue. Wisely decided to avoid buying this Corvette. And it caused me to avoid the C8 model with this shoddy warranty bullshit. GM just does not get reality.
@@nikkoalpha2 it’s not just GM. Ford and Chrysler are all the same and the way they are doing warranty now.A friend of mine who doesn’t drive his Ford Mustang in any bad weather or even cold. He got a left over 2017 and just now hit 10000 miles. He’s got a bad tear in the center of his seat and it should be under warranty for this. But they declined to warranty it because of wear and tear in the reply from Ford. It’s been that way for a while now but he said he would wait until the warranty time was just about to expire and so they took pictures of it. The dealership did. And then they sent them to Ford for review and they declined the warranty for wear and tear. I don’t agree with Ford. Even though I’m a Chevrolet fan. I was a Transmission Technician and anything else that would keep me busy. I’ve been out of the dealership for years now due to becoming disabled. But I did it for 28 years before I got hurt.
I'm 68 years old, I have bought 12 'new Chevy/GMC pickups' in my lifetime, the last one being north of $50K. I have a big problem with the one I own now. My next one will be a Toyota (Tundra). For just the reason(s) you mentioned.!! JMHO --gary
Chevy man my entire life...Last 3 Chev'y were Avalanches. Had issues with ALL 3, last 2 were design flaws in the valve-train (plastic retainer holding lifters), causing major engine failures. After GM not honoring the warranty (2nd) or doing shoddy warranty repair (3rd), I now drive a Nissan Titan and so far love it.
After 50+ years of buying cars, new and old, I haven’t had to own a GM product in more than half that time. Never owned a Chrysler or Ford brand in all those years either. I’ve had many Hondas and Toyotas and one (first and last) Nissan. Two of the Hondas we drove for 10 - 11 years each before trading them in for another Honda or Toyota. Yes, Mr. Lehto, you’re correct; some manufacturers want you to buy more than just your next car from them. But I would also add that some will not pursue that goal at any cost. These days I actually (yes actually) pity the owners of new GM branded vehicles.
You took the words out of my mouth !! 2018 Colorado 200 miles down the road ride was equal to a square tire up front !! 20 thousand miles square tire ride again !! After 12 new Chev pickups no more GM for me !! 34 Year GM employee !!
@@abn82dmp Wish I could of told you about that. We ran a fleet of trucks and had the top ends of GM motors blow at around 120K. You could set your watch to it. We switched to diesels (7.3 Fords and Dodge with Cummins) as a buffer to all the changes every auto manufacture seemed to embrace after 2004: build it cheap but with creature comfort and style. The best example of this is when Dodge briefly eliminated two door work trucks. AYFKM???? We were so pissed. What was a union construction company supposed to buy? GM and Ford were and are producing junk diesel's and the only reliable v-8 out there is Ford's 5.0 and they know it and want a fortune for their truck..... BTW, the aluminum bed on a Ford can't hold any weight and collapse with just over 500 pounds on the rack. Due to our experience with GM in the late 90's and early 2000's, we've never gone back. American trucks are junk and we're forced to buy gas powered Toyota's or wait for electric trucks. We're going to wait.
This reminds me of the last GM car I’ll ever own, a Pontiac G5 ( Same platform as the Chevy Cobalt), it had a design flaw in the timing chain tensioner that caused it to lose tension at around 50k resulting in the pistons hitting the valves, destroying the engine. GM redesigned the tensioner but did not recall the early models that had the problem. Coincidentally ( or maybe not ) the power train warrantee was for 50k.
Audi & VW had a similar "quirk" in early 2000s cars with timing belts that were rated for 105,000 miles. They usually tended to fail around 75Kmi. The cars had 50Kmi warranties, so the owners were all out of luck.
@William Schwartz I recall standing *inside* the engine bay with Dad's '68 Chevy Impala to change spark plugs on the inline six cylinder. Lucky to get your arm in there with a modern car.
I hear ya. That's why I keep driving my 59 Chevy panel truck. It's simple and reliable and much more fun to drive than this modern junk. It has a 235 inline six with a granny four speed.
The loss of customers is irrelevant to GM. They probably gained as many from those who said they would never buy a Ford again. In a few years, this court case will be forgotten; just like the countless ones before it. A new generation of buyers will be born and the cycle will begin again.
The real kicker is that if GM makes the case and wins, other manufacturers will embrace the precedent as a get out of jail free card. At the end of the day it means that even if you migrate away from GM or the next one that does it, you may land in the arms of an equally malicious competitor.
@user name First, warranties are guarantees of quality materials AND WORKMANSHIP. Second, ideas and concepts are protected as valuable intellectual PROPERTY rather like real estate, jewelry, or other personal items. An argument that poor designer workmanship is not physical is specious at best. Certainly blueprints are physical, saved computer files are physical states of storage medium, and items manufactured using design mistakes are physical. A material provider who follows an incorrect recipe (also intellectual property) will inevitably sell poor quality materials.
I agree completely. Workmanship is not defined by the color of the collar of the worker. Blue collar workers and white collar workers are workers and should be expected to do good work. Both share equally the responsibility of giving the customer good workmanship.
Yes! My first car was a GM product. I was part of large-ish warranty issue and felt poorly treated. Sold that car in 1988 and have owned only Subaru ever since. I try to buy the Subaru models made in America too.
Steve, your video is right on. I had a 2015 Silverado LTZ with the 8 speed transmission and had problems with it soon after purchase. I believe it was within 1500 miles that a tech from GM came personally to inspect the problem of hard shifts at random speeds. After they had the truck for several days I was notified that they were replacing my transmission. After completion of the tranny swap they told me that it would take up to a month to learn the new adaptive shifting. After a while I took the truck back still complaining of poor shifting programming and surges so then the reprogramed the computer in it. Once again still same problem. I got to the point I kind of lived with it for a while then along with the shifting problems a new problem occured. One day I swore I was hit from behind by another car on a bridge. I stopped and got out and the driver behind me went around and left.....then looked at the back of my truck and no dents, no scratches no nothing. A few week later this happened again when no one was around and I took the truck back to a dealer and they drove it....reprogramed the computer and I believe they changed the tranny fluid at that time also. I drove the truck for aboiut a month and it still shifted wierd but this time I had my wife with me and had the rear ending feeling again. My wife was saying what the hell? I told her this was what i was telling you about. As we drove on she complained of minor neck and shoulder pain but nothing that needed immediate attention. I took the truck in for its scheduled oil change and complained about the tranmission again as was told they couldnt find anything wrong with it. Well as the end of your video says, I reviewed what had happened with my wife and asked why in the hell am I driving this thing? Two weeks later I was driving a Toyota and today I am looking at getting a new.......Toyota. It has only had one minor recall as to several that I experienced with the Silverado.
As others have noted, modern transmissions are a symbiotic combination of software and hardware - much more a computer than a mechanical device. So here is a question: if GM'S defense is that they make design errors, then can anyone including their competition, can bring that up in advertising without fear of reprisal from GM?
I'm a retired mechanic/machinist, I worked on vehicles all my life and the meshing of computer electronics with vehicles has been the thing I've dreaded for fifty years. I worked avionics twenty years, left it because of the software/hardware interface problems that just continually got ever worse, more software, less actual things that broke, unless a software failure induced a hardware failure.
I drive a 68 Ford pickup truck. No automatic transmission, no computer, no fuel injection. 160,000 miles. Insurance is 250.00/yr. taxes 90.00/yr My mechanic hates me. I invested in the stock market 25 years ago instead of buying cars and trucks. The phrase “A fool and his money are soon departed” wasn’t referring to me.
Even if they lose the lawsuit they will lose a lot of business, who would want to deal with them again after having to sue and them fighting it tooth and nail to be made whole.
I mean, they survived the cobalt steering failure, ignition cylinder failure, and the turbo failures. GM has survived a litany of catastrophic design failures and idiots keep buying them. I had to rent a GM suv last year and it was the most uncomfortable, poorly riding, cheaply built and cheaply designed thing I'd ever ridden in. A shitbox Fiesta was a better car than a 2019 GM suv.
as an engineer, the design is part of the workmanship. There was work done to produce the design and it is just as much part of the work on the object as the forging.
The situation with GM is not the first. This situation seems to becoming more and more prevalent. The ONLY reason my Gen 3 Nissan Altima died was due to design flaws. Catalytic converter placement turns oil into microfinishing compound causing excessive wear on moving internal engine components (my engine went from 0 quarts of oil to 3 quarts of oil burned per 3750 mile oil change) and floor board design caused rot. I have photos of how the design caused them to rot. The local body shops were aware of the issue and not surprised when I called to get an estimate.
A previous incident like this that happened to an extended family member quite a while back is the reason I have never even considered buying GM up until now. I was nearly at the "lets give them a look" point and they pulled this. I am sure my popential purchase is not the only one they lost.
Great information Steve, thank you. I must be one of the lucky ones with 15K+ miles on my 2016 Z06: headers, 2.9L Whipple, tuned, driven hard. The transmission has been flawless -- so far. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
I started out driving in 1976 in a car with 3 speed manual. First & second reasonably close together but 2nd gear to 3rd was a big jump in ratio. 3 gears wasn't enough but NOBODY needs 10 Speed transmissions.
"Vintage Jeep" is a different animal to a car or truck that can go highway speeds. I have a Ford farm tractor with 4 speed, but it tops out at 24 mph wide open in 4th. Also have an International Harvester built Scrub- Cadet with 3 speed manual, 1st is slow Mowing 2nd normal mowing speed. 3rd is so fast only good to get to get from one mowing area to another. Speed is relative to the observer...
Around 1974, I bought a new Chevrolet Malibu Wagon. After driving it for a short time I discovered that whenever I pushed the gas pedal, more than slightly, the car would hesitate and slow, before it accelerated. To me this was obviously a defect so I took it back to the dealer where I purchased the car. Without even driving the car, the service writer acknowledged that there was a problem with the car but the repair was an adjustment which was not covered by warranty. We had a discussion which ended with the decision that the service writer would talk to a Factory Representative, who would be visiting the dealership in a day or two. I left the car with the dealership so it could be examined by the factory rep. When I returned to pick up the car, the service writer told me that indeed the factory rep had checked the car out and had agreed that there was a hesitation before acceleration. The factory rep said that the carburetor needed to be taken apart and the jets needed to be changed. He said Chevrolet would not cover this under warranty and I could pay for the carburetor to be re-jetted myself because the problem was, “commercially acceptable.” I have never purchased a GM product since that date, new or used because I didn’t want to buy any more commercially acceptable defects.
I actually heard about this problem BEFORE I bought my 1500 2017 Sierra and 2018 Silverado. The 6 speed transmission has a good track record thus far. That is the one I wanted and bought. Working great , so far.
Workmanship - "the degree of skill with which a product is made or a job done." I would argue that the designers and engineers did their job poorly and thus the workmanship is defective.
So GM wants to go on public record, under oath, stating explicitly that 1)they incorrectly designed the transmission and 2) continued to sell it to customers. Competitors should turn it into an advertisement.
Steve - IF design defect is allowed as a reason to dismiss or rule against the class action case - How did Ford get Hung for the Pinto and the "Exploding Gas Tank" Were they not found guilty on that case?
I grew up with GM cars. I later tried Ford, and liked my 01 Focus. They don't make that quality at that price point anymore. I'm currently in a Honda, and Steve's right. They're trying to sell me the next five. I might even buy them if i can afford them when it's time to change. I won't go back to GM.
It is odd to me that corporations these days only seem to care about this quarter. It reminds me of when Synder sold Gateway computers to China and destroyed the brand. It made him personally a lot of money even though long term it destroyed the brand. So I guess these corporate leaders are only looking at their personal gain and could care less about the employees or long history of the company.
So much this. It's a result of making CEO's stock holders. They are looking for the short term cash gain and not towards the companies long term benefit. This was useful balancing act between the CEO and the board. Not anymore, now they both want the same thing
In the past vehicle assemblers have been introuble for design issues. The first generation reboot of the Jeep Grand Cherokee's gas tank. They had to add a tow hitch so the tank would not rupture during a rearend crash. Din't the Ford Pinto explode in a fire if hit from behind? I even remember GM trucks that would burst into flames do to the tank being on the outside of the frame. So there is precedence.
This type of thinking is not limited to the car companies. The number one priority of every US corporation is, how can we maximize our stock price TODAY. Businesses used to have 5 and 10 year plans. If those plans exist today, they are strictly for show. An annual plan is a long term plan in today’s business climate. I’m willing to bet that most corporations base the vast majority of their economic decisions on a quarterly basis.
I used to work on software for Chrysler's 9 speed transmission. I still can't believe it ever worked correctly. My favorite 'bug' was the uphill R->D shift causing it to roll backwards until you came to a stop.
Right for their careers short-term...If this attitude continues, I genuinely foresee a time when there will not be a US car industry of any appreciable size AT ALL...what career after that?
@@donnaphen503 yes and no, no contents were covered by my insurance and I had all my luggage, my laptop, and Xmas shopping in there because I had just gotten back from a trip to Dallas
I get the impression that the ex big 3 have given up pretending that they care about their customers. They knowingly make junk and rely on nationalism and foolish brand loyalty. It is sheer desperation. I can't see any of them lasting for another decade and I'm sure they know it too - it's the only logical explanation for their behaviour.
@@genebruce6321 With a Democrat as president anything is possible, but I suspect that this time around the state has much bigger problems to find money for.
@@alexrozenbom3430 That was Nader's case about the Corvair? In which case that was about political ambition. There was nothing intrinsically wrong with the Corvair. The problem was the incompetent drivers. At that time rear engines and that style of suspension was popular, especially in Europe. He didn't go after Volkswagen and the beetle which was far more wayward and deadly. He wanted to make a name for himself using a domestic manufacturer as a high profile target.
Dodging your obligation to honor a warranty through slippery language goes to the culture of an organization and the business ethics of that organization. HOW MANY TIMES do these European and North American manufacturers push their customers away with this short term (measure quarter by quarter) thinking!? Honda won by fixing those horrible rusting fenders that they sold back in the 70's....they did the unthinkable (at the time) and actually fixed them. The stats on this stuff has to be known by now.....senior leaders who make these kinds of decisions are more worried about their bonus this year than the survival of the company. This is why good corp culture and life long employees are important to these large organizations, they will make the right decisions because the culture demands it and they are personally invested in the long term success of the company.
@@buckhorncortez Did the joint development project work on this transmission also? I thought it was for the 10 speed that both companies are putting in trucks now. Also, the assembly plants might be state side but where are the internal components coming from? The globalist have pushed so hard that now it’s rare to find any multi-part manufactured products 100% made in the USA.
GM wants to narrowly define workmanship as the work performed by the people who assembled the car but I would argue that workmanship applies to any work performed in the creation and construction of the vehicle. The engineers who designed these transmissions are workers of GM who collected a paycheck for the work they performed. If the work the engineers performed is faulty then that is a failure of workmanship. As such, a design failure is a failure of the workmanship of the designer and should be covered under the warranty. If an architect designs a building that after being constructed fails due to a design flaw then that architect and the company he or she works for is liable for the failure of their workmanship in designing a faulty building, designing a transmission should be no different. I would argue that the design of the transmission is a product of the workmanship of the engineer or engineers who designed the transmission and is covered under the warranty!
Steve in New Zealand and Australia we have a legal consumer protection that is best stated as "any item you buy must be fit for purpose" A toaster must toast for a reasonable amount of time, a car must be drivable, a washing machine must wash clothes.
Seems that the "work" done by an engineer (designer) and draftsman would come under the definition of workmanship....or at least argued to that effect by a good and well paid lawyer.
Exactly my thoughts, engineering and assembly are all part of workmanship. A contractor builds a fence that falls down unexpectedly from bad design, being properly nailed with correct materials is not a good defense to poor workmanship. Trying to razzle dazzle with the engineering complexity of a transmission is bullshit, people bought a transmission with a warranty, a reasonable person would properly assume this includes design flaws. This is why I bought a Toyota Sequoia. It's actually a very American car, more of is built in the states than other car companies. The 5.7 L motor in Sequoia and Tundra is actually a GM design that they had to sell during bankruptcy in the 90's.
All you have to do is look at the cars that the Big Three built starting at about 1971 or so; uniforming ugly. Their initial response to the then new pollution regs was to make the engines horrible. IMHO, they really have never recovered from that era. For me, there was a '97 F-150 that I bought used. Kept for about four years, it required upwards of $1000 a year in repairs. It was a uniformly horrible vehicle. I asked myself repeatedly that if this is the attitude they had towards the design of their single biggest-selling vehicle, what about the others? I sold it ask quickly as I could save the money to pay cash for a new truck. I bought an '05 Titan, and 235000 miles later, still drive it. I have put maybe $3000 into repairs on it - half of which was really maintenance at this milage. I still love my titan and will drive it until it dies. I will never, ever own a Big Three vehicle.
My last GM vehicle was a 1971 Vega. The grill fell out at the first traffic light that I stopped at. I have made it a point to tell people about that and the constant stream of problems that it had.
My mom has a Chevy Impala. The rear window defogger stopped working. I googled it. Found hit after hit about this cable connection on the front passenger side. I find the connection and pull it apart. The thick black wire to the defogger is fried to hell at the connector. I cut the wire on bother sides and solder them together with an in-line fuse, haven't had a problem since. Apparently this flaw has existed in models going back a decade.
Steve, I have a Cadillac which has had some HVAC woes... mode selection doesn't work properly.... select floor and it blows out the defroster, select vent and it blows out the floor, select bi-level and it blows out nowhere. I've taken the car in 5 times for this... on round 4 they ended up pulling the dashboard to replace the HVAC case as some plastic parts were broken. I had some good timing here - there were 3 days left on the warranty! When heating season came around again last year... same problem: No heat in the floor. I was able to duplicate the issue for my service advisor, who noted it on the repair order. Of course the tech couldn't duplicate the problem. The last line on the notes says: "TECH SUPPORT WAS CONTACTED. GM TECH ASSISTANCE SAID THIS IS A NORMAL CONDITION AS DESIGNED." automakers
Early in my I.T. career a computer salesman explained to me how things work. He said when a company is first established, it is run by entrepreneurs - problem solvers; later, as the company evolves it is controlled by lawyers and bean counters. G.M. proves this case.
I own a (one-owner, still!) 1994 suburban with a "Lifetime Service Agreement" on the AC compressor. After about compressor number 6 or 7 (~2018), GM decided to invalidate the LSA, only covering the part cost from that replacement forward. Unsurprisingly, the compressor failed again after ~6 months, and here I sit with no AC once again... They've never replaced the drier, condenser, or rear expansion valve, so this is an expected outcome. They won't give me this change in the agreement in writing, and I discovered this after picking the truck up last with a bill to foot. I'm not surprised to see this behavior from them. My family has bought only GM vehicles only for over 20 years, but that's down the drain as a result of their handling of this, and their drop in vehicle longevity.
I have always wanted a Corvette. Being informed of the transmission problems of the (L8's) I looked hard to find a 2014 "Stingray with a six speed automatic ". I found a beauty. In the process I called a Big Corvette Dealer in Huston Texas to see their opinion about "would I be OK to look for a 2015 thru 2019 Corvette". His opinion was "Those guys who have anything bad to say about the L8 transmissions have too much time on their hands". "At worst a fluid change fixes everything".
And you still want to buy American cars and trucks. Don't people realize these big three (as they are called) don't give a rat's ass about the American consumers, they never have and they never will. They didn't learn the last time they almost lost their companies and yet nothing has changed, they don't care about you Mr. Lehto or any other American person. The American consumers have to be the most forgiving people on earth. If you want to make them change their tactics and respect the American consumers, Don't buy their junk and they'll have to change.
This is a reflection of a problem with many US companies. Short vs long term profits. The decision makers bonuses are based on this quarters profits, not on the profits 5 years from now. The decision makers may not even employed at that manufacture 5 years from now. Shareholder profits are based on tomorrow's stock price, not on the stock price 5 years from now. Decision makers and shareholder are incentivized to only look at the short term and are disincentivized to look long term. Them same fallacy exists when a company moves it manufacturing to another country like China where there are joint venture and technology transfer requirements. This may be great for short term profitability and the resulting decision makers bonuses and tomorrow's stock price gains. However it will be devastating to the company in the long term, when there is a new low cost competator on the market. Long term employees and shareholders are a thing of the past, which will inevitably lead to a decline in the US as a whole.
I have owned exactly one GM car, a 1979 Safari (faux woody) station wagon. It was an OK car and we enjoyed many car trips in it with our young (at the time) family.
I currently own a 2007 GMC Yukon Denali XL. It has only 138,000 miles. It doesn't have the 8 speed transmission but it does have the following issues. Check engine light has been on for the last 50K miles. Automatic retracting running boards stuck in down position. Automatic leveling suspension system no longer works. Air bag light. Hood open light permanently on. Stabilitrac light come on persistently. Traction control light comes on persistently. Rear hatch opener doesn't work when it is below zero. Rear wiper no longer works. Remote start no longer works. Rear view camera no longer works. Gas tank strap rusted out and gas tank almost fell out of the truck. The fuel pump outlet rusted out causing fuel to leak. Tire pressure monitor for left rear tire no longer works. Exhaust manifold bolts broke causing exhaust leaks. AC system no longer can hold a charge. Exterior side trim on passenger door fell off. Break light switch sticks sometimes causing the Cruise Control to not engage without taping the break pedal first. Many lug nuts rust out and swell the stainless cap so lug nut wrench no longer fit. Spare tire carrier cable rusted up so tire cannot be lowered. Rusty body panels. Other than these things, I like the truck! Ha Ha!!!
@@stevewolff7187 So you're driving an unsafe and a not-fit-for-purpose vehicle? You cause an accident resulting in fatalities and injuries and say "not my fault nothing to see here"?
@@wizzard5442 Don't be such a puss. Nothing unsafe about it. It runs and drives and stops just fine. Most of the issues are from electrical BS. Please explain how any of the issue could cause an accident?
@@stevewolff7187 Explaining it is too much typing and you'd ignore it anyway. All I'm going to say is, you were warned that the truck is unsafe and shouldnt be driven. There is a saying "accidents do happen". Oh btw, is the truck insured? Because if it is, and you have an accident, when the insurance company inspects the truck, they'll say exactly what I said, and will deem your policy null and void. BUT! Whats the bet you're not insured and the other party claims damages against you? You got enough dollars?
My friend has one of these. The shudder feels like you are driving on a rumble strip. Drove me nuts for 2 hours... as a passenger. I won't ride in it for more than a few minutes.
The shudder can usually be greatly reduced or even eliminated by a full flush of the transmission fluid. It is quite expensive because it requires 20 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic fluid, but the powertrain warranty will cover the flush. I flushed a Yukon transmission 3 days ago that had a shudder that was quite bad. I could not feel it at all after the flush. If that doesn't work, a new torque converter should fix it. The shifting issues are a much tougher nut to crack.
Having owned several Nissans ('91 Sentra 5 speed, '94 Sentra, '00 Altima, '14 Versa & '17 Sentra - all bought new) I can attest to your claim that Nissan USED to be out to sell you your next 5 vehicles. However since the Altima (traded at ~242,000 miles at 15 years old - only major repair was new radiator I installed myself - but eventually killed by rust) the quality of the Nissans I've had has gone WAY down. Toyota / Honda / Mazda will likely be the only places I will be shopping when I decide having a new car payment is better than sticking with the Sentra I'm driving now.
Ford too. My dad got free replacements for his fenders that rusted - a Ford executive told him to write a letter, and told him where to send it, and voila! A new pair of fenders arrived a while later - Dad had to get them painted himself, but no charges for the parts.
Memories of being bounced from an overbooked Mexicana flight, being told it was my fault, and no mention of the compensation that the FAA requires. Mexicana isn't around any more.
They're called technical Service Bulletins!!!They know there's a problem, but hope you don't know! They get away with it unless there's an official recall!!
I had a 2017 Silverado.... the transmission in this truck never knew where it was or when to shift. I complained about it every time I went for service. I test drove a newer version of the silverado while my truck was having warrantee work done, this newer trucks transmission had no issues, ran like a dream. The service dept told me that the issues I had were non issues in that design year..... The transfer case/4wd sounded like a 1940s manual transmission when in 4wd, they said it was normal for that year vehicles..( sold it at 23,000 miles).. I now own a Ram...
Hmmmm. GM has been down this road before. Not covering the design defect is a new twist however. A design defect that impacts the car's safe operation? Can you say NHTSA?
Honda has my business because of the attitude of American car manufacturers. The American assemblers all started looking short-term in the early 90's. I held out hope until the 00's. Most of my friends have come to the same conclusion.
The Honda Odyssey was issued a recall just last month for over 1.6 million of the minivans. ... The lawsuit covers 2018 and 2019 Odyssey minivans with the nine-speed transmission and takes in all current and former owners and lessees
Not while people take there vehicle to dealership and have there transmissions replaced or fixed and are not told, among other very well thought threw part failures that make dealerships of that vehicle money.
@@dodgeguyz Those people aren't "legacy" customers until they buy a car from there. And while it wasn't a car company, here's an example from my family about how treating a customer like dirt loses you future business. My dad passed away in 1975 after a brief illness. Because he travelled a lot for work, he had several gas credit cards that had small balances on them (like $10 on two of them, $20 on the other). Mom contacted the three companies to cancel dad's account and see about getting cards in her name alone. Here's how the three conversations went: 1) We're really sorry to hear about your loss. Of course, we'll send you a card in your name, and because your husband was a good customer for a number of years, we're going to waive the $10 balance. 2) We're really sorry to hear about your loss. Of course, we'll send you a card in your name. There is a $20 balance, but we've marked your account not to bother you about any outstanding balance for the next six months. 3) We're really sorry to hear about your loss, but we don't issue cards to single women. And since the account is now closed, you'll need to pay that off in the next 30 days or we'll refer the debt to a collection agency. So mom sent them a $10 check, and never bought another gallon of gas from them as long as she drove. I've now been driving for 40 years, and I've never bought a gallon of gas from them. Hell, one time I ran out, and I walked about half a mile _past_ one of their stations to buy gas elsewhere. Not giving her the card was bad, but threatening to get a collection agency involved continues to piss me off no end. They were so anxious to get that $10 that it's cost them tens of thousands in lost business.
Somehow, this story reminded me of the following non sequitur: Back in the day I used to call Dynaflow transmissions, as well as centrifugal clutches, "Slip-o-matic transmissions."
I’ve been driving Chevy trucks for 28 years and I’ve told many people I will never buy another GM Product again. Everyday IM kicking myself for not buying a Tundra.
@@ShadowBannedagain Give me your email and I’d be happy to send you copies of the service receipts that I inherited and I’ve made since taking the vehicle over. Make enough sense to you now?
@@edschwendiman2566 According to the Popular Mechanics article on the Pinto... It would've taken about $11/car to deal with the problems. Ford did a cost analysis and came up with $49M in lawsuit costs vs $113M to properly fix the design flaws. Mother Jones came up with Ford internal communications for their article that finally spurred the NTSB into action. GM and what was once Chrysler and the now defunct AMC were no better.
These aren’t low end vehicles either, these are many of their higher priced and highest margin vehicles. This defense is suicidal. P.S. I made this comment about a minute before Steve mentioned it.
Yea it's crazy like these probably lowest end are in the 40ks for like an ATS with no options maybe or a Camaro maybe. But all the SUVs mentioned gotta be 70k plus. I could be wrong, but damn these people that can afford the big money cars and trucks hopefully are smart enough to never come back to them after this. It sucks that this is the American cars way anymore and they basically should be left to die off as they will with their own products and practices. No bailout, because Americans dont need options like these. It's sad its coming to this.
How many people who (at some point) will hear the stories of what these companies that "assemble parts that become vehicles" have done and how they treated their high-end customers, will think twice before buying from them. Some might ask advice from their friends, their parents, their grandparents, and they tell them maybe it's not a good idea to buy from these companies. Or what about all the UA-cam channels that recommend good companies to buy vehicles. They might remind their views of these duty deeds. So in 10 years (or so) those "assembly of parts" companies just might not have any customers left to buy what they have assembled.
Wait till you find out that every GM engine with AFM (since 06 I believe) eats itself and costs thousands in repairs at under 100k mi. And if you don't delete or at least disable it, it will just fail again.
This makes me think if I ever want to drop 70K on a vehicle that may become a driveway ornament at any time because of bad design. Bad design is poor engineering unless accounting did not approve a material due to cost.
@@horrido666 Thanks for taking the time to reply and making distinction between the two. I am not a designer(I did take drafting classes many years ago in high-school) or an engineer. However, I do believe both designer and engineer need to work together on a component for a finished good, whatever the product may be. If engineering found a part does not work as intended, they would go back to the "drawing board" until it works, but it seems that with GM this did not work. Their design was approved while something was missed during validation or did not meet cost requirements. Where all designers and engineers pushed to have all tests completed on a short deadline?
If a government can permit a car company to absolve themselves of blame for a product they designed incompetently you can safely say that government is not a government of the people but is so deeply in the pockets of said company that they are not fit to govern.
Reminds me of when I was teen working as a mechanic at a GM dealership in the late sixties. Basically they were denying repairs on lots of cars, I asked the factory rep didn't GM care about the cars they made. I remember vividly his response. "Kid, GM doesn't make cars, they make money." I replied they make their money selling cars they make and this was no way to keep customers. His response was, "A new customer is born every minute." AMC was the only car company I worked for that actually cared for their customers, and they are no longer in business.
In 2006 I saw some GM labor operation codes “commission pay” cut by as much as 50%. I used to be a GM fan but I tell people now if someone gave me a GM product 2006 or newer I would sell it before my name was on the title.
American business, especially car companies...Short sighted. Used to be the son wanted the same car Dad liked. Now...Nobody cares. TgT
In the ‘60’s, GM had a 50% US market share... What is it in ‘20? 17% or so...
I would have said ' Yes but how much money did you make from that newborn customer who bought from your competitor because you forgot where that money comes from.'
Before the first bolt is ever torqued down on the transmission, designers and engineers worked on it first. They are part of the workmanship that went into building the transmission
My thought exactly.
Exactly. I said something basically equivilant.
I'm an engineer. It is definitely my workmanship when I design something.
Absolutely, they pay an engineer who "works" on the design........
This is the magic moment when you realize anyone who buys a GM product is stupid, including yourself.
I seem to remember that GM had a design defect in their corporate finance structure that the US taxpayers helped them out of a few years ago...
they will probably end up being bailed out by the taxpayer again
Sad, but true. That’s why they don’t care what junk they sell.
@@joeennis2571
Probably, now that Beijing Biden will be in the White House. I mean, it worked so well the *last* time he was there, why not do it again?
I vividly remember it! “Too big to fail” is not in the capitalism dictionary... the breakdowns go much deeper than defective wheels and transmissions.
It's a classic tactic of "Too big to fail" politically well connected businesses. Capitalize (or privatize) the profits and socialize the losses.
Capitalization of profits is the use of a corporation's retained earnings (RE) to pay a bonus to shareholders in the form of dividends or additional shares. This is not typically a problem. Profits are up... pay your investors a reasonable amount and hold some back for when things get lean.
Loss socialization is where things get skeevy. Loss socialization generally comes from some type of government intervention when the company in question didn't hold back enough profit and-or didn't properly care for the market for its' products. They should apply for Bankruptcy protection and either go out of business or reorganize and come up with a payback scheme so they, and businesses in general, learn from their mistakes. Instead they get "bailed out" by all of us and make zero, or very small, changes to the practices that caused the problem.
As long as we continue to elect the Kleptocracy to public office that tactic will be repeated like a scratched skipping record. When the theft from the public coffers is truly threatened you'll see the whole political machinery of the country used by the Kleptocracy to squash the threat with extreme prejudice.
My favorite GM dealer line: "It is normal operating spec" when it clearly is not. This makes sense now because it's normal to be broken.
I'm among the common Jo, who firmly believes design is work and there for covered under workmanship.
Agreed.
Yeah, aren’t you paying for the design as much as for any other work done to bring the car to market?
You ever see a bean counter that was more interested in the well-being of a customer or corporation they were working for over his wallet?
Ford has a design problem in their 12th gen F150. 2009 - 2014. Myself and neighbors on both sides of me have them and cab corners rust out. Huge problem when you research online. Mine is a well maintained 2014 and cab corner is rusted out. Problem is an obvious design flaw. Intentional to promote the aluminum bodies they had coming out, hmmmm? My 2003 4runner didn't have any serious rust when it was 12 years old before I sold it but my 2014 F150 does with 80,000 miles on it. Very frustrating.
If the designer got paid it is work!
8 people disliked this video. Must be those transmission speeds.
Or GM executives
Cause he just says the same thing over and over and over again
GM sees every person as a potential customer, until they buy a GM vehicle. After that, they are a potential liability. A few years ago, GM turned all warranty administration over to contractors, whose only mission is to transfer as much warranty costs to the dealership. There is no interest in customer satisfaction after the sale from the contractor or General Motors.
No, no, they are still a customer - however for repairs and new parts. ;)
@@hecatommyriagon655 That's the dealership's customer, not General Motors.
As long as executive pay is based on “ share value” this mindset will prevail.
You think those other car companies don't base executive pay on the same stuff?
They’ve been bailed out before, why would they want to change how they treat customers?
It would not be out of line for Honda, Toyota, Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru), Nissan, Hyundai, etc to base executive pay on share value. That's how it's done.
In late 2005 I bought a brand new Chevy Colorado. It developed an oil leak by the time it hit 28,000 miles(too late to file for lemon law). By the time the truck hit 36,000 miles and the basic warranty expired, the cylinder head gasket had been replaced 3 times, the cylinder head was replaced once, and the mechanic and service advisor admitted that it was in fact the block that needed to be replaced. With sand casting, sometimes you get stray sand that ends up making components “porous” so oil can seep through the metal. This is what happened with my truck. But, Chevy refused to replace the block since the warranty was expiring and instructed the dealership to replace the head gasket, yet again. I have purchased 7 new vehicles since then and not a single one has been or ever will be a GM made vehicle. This video shows me that GM has not changed so I will continue to not buy GM products.
Yes, every manufacturer makes mistakes and builds something defective sometimes. To me, how they respond is more important than the mistake. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and GM, you have failed.
Gee Corvette rims and now transmissions with "design" defects, exactly why I will never buy a GM product.
Yeah I have one and its just been a terrible experience
@@alexrozenbom3430 I just read a summery about it. That was NAZI or Soviet Union way of conducting business.
I was going to buy a new at the time 2018 Corvette. After researching it, I discovered the 8-speed automatic transmission issue. Wisely decided to avoid buying this Corvette. And it caused me to avoid the C8 model with this shoddy warranty bullshit. GM just does not get reality.
@@nikkoalpha2 it’s not just GM. Ford and Chrysler are all the same and the way they are doing warranty now.A friend of mine who doesn’t drive his Ford Mustang in any bad weather or even cold. He got a left over 2017 and just now hit 10000 miles. He’s got a bad tear in the center of his seat and it should be under warranty for this. But they declined to warranty it because of wear and tear in the reply from Ford. It’s been that way for a while now but he said he would wait until the warranty time was just about to expire and so they took pictures of it. The dealership did. And then they sent them to Ford for review and they declined the warranty for wear and tear. I don’t agree with Ford. Even though I’m a Chevrolet fan. I was a Transmission Technician and anything else that would keep me busy. I’ve been out of the dealership for years now due to becoming disabled. But I did it for 28 years before I got hurt.
GM cars like most others were once ok (except for dodge). After 2001, almost everything is 💩.
I'm 68 years old, I have bought 12 'new Chevy/GMC pickups' in my lifetime, the last one being north of $50K. I have a big problem with the one I own now. My next one will be a Toyota (Tundra). For just the reason(s) you mentioned.!! JMHO --gary
Chevy man my entire life...Last 3 Chev'y were Avalanches. Had issues with ALL 3, last 2 were design flaws in the valve-train (plastic retainer holding lifters), causing major engine failures. After GM not honoring the warranty (2nd) or doing shoddy warranty repair (3rd), I now drive a Nissan Titan and so far love it.
After 50+ years of buying cars, new and old, I haven’t had to own a GM product in more than half that time. Never owned a Chrysler or Ford brand in all those years either. I’ve had many Hondas and Toyotas and one (first and last) Nissan. Two of the Hondas we drove for 10 - 11 years each before trading them in for another Honda or Toyota. Yes, Mr. Lehto, you’re correct; some manufacturers want you to buy more than just your next car from them. But I would also add that some will not pursue that goal at any cost. These days I actually (yes actually) pity the owners of new GM branded vehicles.
You took the words out of my mouth !! 2018 Colorado 200 miles down the road ride was equal to a square tire up front !! 20 thousand miles square tire ride again !! After 12 new Chev pickups no more GM for me !! 34 Year GM employee !!
@@abn82dmp Wish I could of told you about that. We ran a fleet of trucks and had the top ends of GM motors blow at around 120K. You could set your watch to it. We switched to diesels (7.3 Fords and Dodge with Cummins) as a buffer to all the changes every auto manufacture seemed to embrace after 2004: build it cheap but with creature comfort and style. The best example of this is when Dodge briefly eliminated two door work trucks. AYFKM???? We were so pissed. What was a union construction company supposed to buy? GM and Ford were and are producing junk diesel's and the only reliable v-8 out there is Ford's 5.0 and they know it and want a fortune for their truck..... BTW, the aluminum bed on a Ford can't hold any weight and collapse with just over 500 pounds on the rack. Due to our experience with GM in the late 90's and early 2000's, we've never gone back. American trucks are junk and we're forced to buy gas powered Toyota's or wait for electric trucks. We're going to wait.
Do your homework, Toyo has the same problems.
This reminds me of the last GM car I’ll ever own, a Pontiac G5 ( Same platform as the Chevy Cobalt), it had a design flaw in the timing chain tensioner that caused it to lose tension at around 50k resulting in the pistons hitting the valves, destroying the engine. GM redesigned the tensioner but did not recall the early models that had the problem. Coincidentally ( or maybe not ) the power train warrantee was for 50k.
Audi & VW had a similar "quirk" in early 2000s cars with timing belts that were rated for 105,000 miles. They usually tended to fail around 75Kmi. The cars had 50Kmi warranties, so the owners were all out of luck.
Nothing like going for a spin in my '69 Chevelle big block with it's (simple) 4-speed Muncie Rock Crusher. 😎
@William Schwartz
I recall standing *inside* the engine bay with Dad's '68 Chevy Impala to change spark plugs on the inline six cylinder. Lucky to get your arm in there with a modern car.
Excellent transmission with a nice tight shift pattern.
I hear ya. That's why I keep driving my 59 Chevy panel truck. It's simple and reliable and much more fun to drive than this modern junk. It has a 235 inline six with a granny four speed.
Very nice.
The loss of customers is irrelevant to GM. They probably gained as many from those who said they would never buy a Ford again. In a few years, this court case will be forgotten; just like the countless ones before it. A new generation of buyers will be born and the cycle will begin again.
They didn't gain me ;)
The real kicker is that if GM makes the case and wins, other manufacturers will embrace the precedent as a get out of jail free card. At the end of the day it means that even if you migrate away from GM or the next one that does it, you may land in the arms of an equally malicious competitor.
I enjoy your channel Mr Lehto; it’s easy to listen to and entertaining, all the way the very end.
Once again, why is the "workmanship" of GM's design team exempt from their warranties?
They probably "outsourced" the engineers
@user name First, warranties are guarantees of quality materials AND WORKMANSHIP. Second, ideas and concepts are protected as valuable intellectual PROPERTY rather like real estate, jewelry, or other personal items. An argument that poor designer workmanship is not physical is specious at best. Certainly blueprints are physical, saved computer files are physical states of storage medium, and items manufactured using design mistakes are physical. A material provider who follows an incorrect recipe (also intellectual property) will inevitably sell poor quality materials.
Why isn't "design" part of "workmanship"?
As an engineer, myself, I certainly would consider my designs my workmanship.
I agree completely. Workmanship is not defined by the color of the collar of the worker. Blue collar workers and white collar workers are workers and should be expected to do good work. Both share equally the responsibility of giving the customer good workmanship.
I agree. It is all part of the "you can't test in quality" thing. A bad design will always be a bad design.
I agree
@@kensmith5694 But if you give it enough J D Power awards it will make it all better. 🤣
I guess you don't work for GM. Their accountants & lawyers have a different dictionary.
Steve has the best definition of the word "shudder" that I've ever seen... too bad it can't be written down!
It's a multimedia definition!
I was making almost the same motion when he said that. Like I was trying to hold my coffee on the dash while the vehicle shuddered
I'm not so sure - looked more like a "judder" to me, but then I don't have legal training...
Elmer Fudd may qualify as an expert witness for verbally demonstrating this shudder.
Maybe he could sell haptic experience boxes. Or at least we could have in the thesaurus museum in the 'Shudder' section.
This is exactly why Japanese manufacturers just keep increasing market share
S. Korea and europe too.
There is no good reason a maker in the US can't out compete one that has to ship its cars over an ocean.
@@kensmith5694 there is an excellent reason why and its Greed an I dont care management
Yep-it's why I now own a Toyota and why my next vehicle(used) will not be an American made vehicle. Better quality all the way around.
@@angeliqueillstopprocrastin479 I think the big 3 will fold and like companies like Tesla and rivian will take over
Add to that unions. Foreign manufacturers are not unionized while domestics are...they can't raise the prices so they cut corners
Yes! My first car was a GM product. I was part of large-ish warranty issue and felt poorly treated. Sold that car in 1988 and have owned only Subaru ever since. I try to buy the Subaru models made in America too.
Virtue signal much?
Steve, your video is right on. I had a 2015 Silverado LTZ with the 8 speed transmission and had problems with it soon after purchase. I believe it was within 1500 miles that a tech from GM came personally to inspect the problem of hard shifts at random speeds. After they had the truck for several days I was notified that they were replacing my transmission. After completion of the tranny swap they told me that it would take up to a month to learn the new adaptive shifting. After a while I took the truck back still complaining of poor shifting programming and surges so then the reprogramed the computer in it. Once again still same problem. I got to the point I kind of lived with it for a while then along with the shifting problems a new problem occured. One day I swore I was hit from behind by another car on a bridge. I stopped and got out and the driver behind me went around and left.....then looked at the back of my truck and no dents, no scratches no nothing. A few week later this happened again when no one was around and I took the truck back to a dealer and they drove it....reprogramed the computer and I believe they changed the tranny fluid at that time also. I drove the truck for aboiut a month and it still shifted wierd but this time I had my wife with me and had the rear ending feeling again. My wife was saying what the hell? I told her this was what i was telling you about. As we drove on she complained of minor neck and shoulder pain but nothing that needed immediate attention. I took the truck in for its scheduled oil change and complained about the tranmission again as was told they couldnt find anything wrong with it. Well as the end of your video says, I reviewed what had happened with my wife and asked why in the hell am I driving this thing? Two weeks later I was driving a Toyota and today I am looking at getting a new.......Toyota. It has only had one minor recall as to several that I experienced with the Silverado.
As others have noted, modern transmissions are a symbiotic combination of software and hardware - much more a computer than a mechanical device. So here is a question: if GM'S defense is that they make design errors, then can anyone including their competition, can bring that up in advertising without fear of reprisal from GM?
I'm a retired mechanic/machinist, I worked on vehicles all my life and the meshing of computer electronics with vehicles has been the thing I've dreaded for fifty years. I worked avionics twenty years, left it because of the software/hardware interface problems that just continually got ever worse, more software, less actual things that broke, unless a software failure induced a hardware failure.
I drive a 68 Ford pickup truck. No automatic transmission, no computer, no fuel injection. 160,000 miles. Insurance is 250.00/yr. taxes 90.00/yr My mechanic hates me. I invested in the stock market 25 years ago instead of buying cars and trucks. The phrase “A fool and his money are soon departed” wasn’t referring to me.
Well, this video and their actions just confirmed that I will NEVER buy a GM vehicle...
Whats next ? are GM going to sue owners of vehicles that work
That will never happen. A unproblematic working GM is like an experienced, virgin hooker.
Even if they lose the lawsuit they will lose a lot of business, who would want to deal with them again after having to sue and them fighting it tooth and nail to be made whole.
I mean, they survived the cobalt steering failure, ignition cylinder failure, and the turbo failures. GM has survived a litany of catastrophic design failures and idiots keep buying them. I had to rent a GM suv last year and it was the most uncomfortable, poorly riding, cheaply built and cheaply designed thing I'd ever ridden in. A shitbox Fiesta was a better car than a 2019 GM suv.
I find your faith in the public’s intelligence charming.
@@BillLaBrie haha thanks, I just have too have that attitude, otherwise I would be depressed at how stupid our species can be
They make money in dealership repairs. Not just the transmission but all other bad design, defects, and features. All newer vehicle's are junk.
as an engineer, the design is part of the workmanship. There was work done to produce the design and it is just as much part of the work on the object as the forging.
The situation with GM is not the first. This situation seems to becoming more and more prevalent. The ONLY reason my Gen 3 Nissan Altima died was due to design flaws. Catalytic converter placement turns oil into microfinishing compound causing excessive wear on moving internal engine components (my engine went from 0 quarts of oil to 3 quarts of oil burned per 3750 mile oil change) and floor board design caused rot. I have photos of how the design caused them to rot. The local body shops were aware of the issue and not surprised when I called to get an estimate.
A Cadillac ad came up before watching your video.
A previous incident like this that happened to an extended family member quite a while back is the reason I have never even considered buying GM up until now. I was nearly at the "lets give them a look" point and they pulled this. I am sure my popential purchase is not the only one they lost.
If not covered by warranty, it should be governed by strict product liability.
The manufacturer/dealer relationship seems like a major dumpster fire. Some things should evolve into extinction.
Great information Steve, thank you. I must be one of the lucky ones with 15K+ miles on my 2016 Z06: headers, 2.9L Whipple, tuned, driven hard. The transmission has been flawless -- so far. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
I started out driving in 1976 in a car with 3 speed manual. First & second reasonably close together but 2nd gear to 3rd was a big jump in ratio.
3 gears wasn't enough but NOBODY
needs 10 Speed transmissions.
My vintage Jeep has a 3 speed. Great around town or desert trails. RPM's a little high at freeway speeds. But... has NEVER given me a problem.
"Vintage Jeep" is a different animal to a car or truck that can go highway speeds.
I have a Ford farm tractor with 4 speed, but it tops out at 24 mph wide open in 4th. Also have an International Harvester built Scrub- Cadet with 3 speed manual, 1st is slow Mowing 2nd normal mowing speed. 3rd is so fast only good to get to get from one mowing area to another.
Speed is relative to the observer...
5 out of the 6 vehicles in my garage have 6 speed transmissions. 3 of them are motorcycles.
So I think 6 speeds it that happy middle place.
Thank you, great job. Been gm all my life 50 years. Good by gm.
good buy ?
Oh no I think he meant good bye
It’s not a defect, it’s a feature
I hope you meant it's a failure
"undocumented" feature
Around 1974, I bought a new Chevrolet Malibu Wagon. After driving it for a short time I discovered that whenever I pushed the gas pedal, more than slightly, the car would hesitate and slow, before it accelerated. To me this was obviously a defect so I took it back to the dealer where I purchased the car. Without even driving the car, the service writer acknowledged that there was a problem with the car but the repair was an adjustment which was not covered by warranty. We had a discussion which ended with the decision that the service writer would talk to a Factory Representative, who would be visiting the dealership in a day or two. I left the car with the dealership so it could be examined by the factory rep. When I returned to pick up the car, the service writer told me that indeed the factory rep had checked the car out and had agreed that there was a hesitation before acceleration. The factory rep said that the carburetor needed to be taken apart and the jets needed to be changed. He said Chevrolet would not cover this under warranty and I could pay for the carburetor to be re-jetted myself because the problem was, “commercially acceptable.” I have never purchased a GM product since that date, new or used because I didn’t want to buy any more commercially acceptable defects.
I actually heard about this problem BEFORE I bought my 1500 2017 Sierra and 2018 Silverado.
The 6 speed transmission has a good track record thus far.
That is the one I wanted and bought.
Working great , so far.
Also stay away from the new 10 speed transmissions.
They are NOT ANY BETTER than the 8 speed units.
The one very dependable GM car I've owned and still have: The Chevy Volt. They must have noticed that. They quit making them in 2019.
Workmanship - "the degree of skill with which a product is made or a job done." I would argue that the designers and engineers did their job poorly and thus the workmanship is defective.
So GM wants to go on public record, under oath, stating explicitly that 1)they incorrectly designed the transmission and 2) continued to sell it to customers. Competitors should turn it into an advertisement.
Steve - IF design defect is allowed as a reason to dismiss or rule against the class action case - How did Ford get Hung for the Pinto and the "Exploding Gas Tank" Were they not found guilty on that case?
I grew up with GM cars. I later tried Ford, and liked my 01 Focus. They don't make that quality at that price point anymore. I'm currently in a Honda, and Steve's right. They're trying to sell me the next five. I might even buy them if i can afford them when it's time to change. I won't go back to GM.
It is odd to me that corporations these days only seem to care about this quarter. It reminds me of when Synder sold Gateway computers to China and destroyed the brand. It made him personally a lot of money even though long term it destroyed the brand. So I guess these corporate leaders are only looking at their personal gain and could care less about the employees or long history of the company.
So much this.
It's a result of making CEO's stock holders. They are looking for the short term cash gain and not towards the companies long term benefit.
This was useful balancing act between the CEO and the board. Not anymore, now they both want the same thing
In the past vehicle assemblers have been introuble for design issues. The first generation reboot of the Jeep Grand Cherokee's gas tank. They had to add a tow hitch so the tank would not rupture during a rearend crash. Din't the Ford Pinto explode in a fire if hit from behind? I even remember GM trucks that would burst into flames do to the tank being on the outside of the frame. So there is precedence.
Isn’t it poor workmanship from the designers and engineers?
This type of thinking is not limited to the car companies. The number one priority of every US corporation is, how can we maximize our stock price TODAY. Businesses used to have 5 and 10 year plans. If those plans exist today, they are strictly for show. An annual plan is a long term plan in today’s business climate. I’m willing to bet that most corporations base the vast majority of their economic decisions on a quarterly basis.
I used to work on software for Chrysler's 9 speed transmission. I still can't believe it ever worked correctly. My favorite 'bug' was the uphill R->D shift causing it to roll backwards until you came to a stop.
GM executives ARE doing what's right. Right for their careers. Not for their customers.
Right for their careers short-term...If this attitude continues, I genuinely foresee a time when there will not be a US car industry of any appreciable size AT ALL...what career after that?
@@cogidubnus1953 They’ll run for public office.
I had 1 of these in my 2016 Denali, it started suffering from this about a year ago. I guess I lucked out it was stolen about a month ago.
I bet it didnt get far.
How convenient! lol
@@donnaphen503 yes and no, no contents were covered by my insurance and I had all my luggage, my laptop, and Xmas shopping in there because I had just gotten back from a trip to Dallas
@@PumpkinKingXXIII Vehicle contents will be covered by your homeowner policy.
@@darrellpatton4008 true but my homeowners deductible is so high it wasn’t worth it
This just in... There is no workmanship in the engineering department.
Or the exec's didnt allow them to fix it once it was discovered because it would hurt their bonuses
In "Animal House" Eric comforts Flounder, saying, "You (screwed) up. You trusted us." ua-cam.com/video/LARx7M9s15w/v-deo.html (@ 1:00)
The law book was the biggest flex I've seen on UA-cam on a LONG TIME! 💪🏾
Ford screwed me on new car warranty on first new car in 1976. SInce then it's Toyota, Honda and Hundai. 250k miles on each.
I have nearly 400,000 mi on a Hyundai Elantra. Waited for it to break. I ended up giving it to my kids and they still drive the wheels off of it.
Steve. Great channel, you provide a wonderful service to the public. Keep up the good work.
I get the impression that the ex big 3 have given up pretending that they care about their customers. They knowingly make junk and rely on nationalism and foolish brand loyalty.
It is sheer desperation.
I can't see any of them lasting for another decade and I'm sure they know it too - it's the only logical explanation for their behaviour.
They'll just get bailed out again. Until a new Tucker comes along that, this time, ruins them.
@@genebruce6321 With a Democrat as president anything is possible, but I suspect that this time around the state has much bigger problems to find money for.
@@alexrozenbom3430 That was Nader's case about the Corvair? In which case that was about political ambition. There was nothing intrinsically wrong with the Corvair.
The problem was the incompetent drivers. At that time rear engines and that style of suspension was popular, especially in Europe.
He didn't go after Volkswagen and the beetle which was far more wayward and deadly. He wanted to make a name for himself using a domestic manufacturer as a high profile target.
Dodging your obligation to honor a warranty through slippery language goes to the culture of an organization and the business ethics of that organization. HOW MANY TIMES do these European and North American manufacturers push their customers away with this short term (measure quarter by quarter) thinking!? Honda won by fixing those horrible rusting fenders that they sold back in the 70's....they did the unthinkable (at the time) and actually fixed them. The stats on this stuff has to be known by now.....senior leaders who make these kinds of decisions are more worried about their bonus this year than the survival of the company. This is why good corp culture and life long employees are important to these large organizations, they will make the right decisions because the culture demands it and they are personally invested in the long term success of the company.
Sounds like GM got their transmissions from the same place that Ford did
Yeah CHYNA
You mean the joint development project they had for transmissions?
@@misterdeplorable2088 Ford transmission plants are in: Livonia, MI, Sterling Heights, MI, and Sharonville, OH. Nice try though...
@@buckhorncortez lol yeah that was a joke....did you Google it? Sorry....
@@buckhorncortez Did the joint development project work on this transmission also? I thought it was for the 10 speed that both companies are putting in trucks now.
Also, the assembly plants might be state side but where are the internal components coming from? The globalist have pushed so hard that now it’s rare to find any multi-part manufactured products 100% made in the USA.
GM wants to narrowly define workmanship as the work performed by the people who assembled the car but I would argue that workmanship applies to any work performed in the creation and construction of the vehicle. The engineers who designed these transmissions are workers of GM who collected a paycheck for the work they performed. If the work the engineers performed is faulty then that is a failure of workmanship. As such, a design failure is a failure of the workmanship of the designer and should be covered under the warranty. If an architect designs a building that after being constructed fails due to a design flaw then that architect and the company he or she works for is liable for the failure of their workmanship in designing a faulty building, designing a transmission should be no different. I would argue that the design of the transmission is a product of the workmanship of the engineer or engineers who designed the transmission and is covered under the warranty!
Damn we have a 2015 with an 8l90 and haven’t experienced the transmission issues that are going on 😬
Steve in New Zealand and Australia we have a legal consumer protection that is best stated as "any item you buy must be fit for purpose" A toaster must toast for a reasonable amount of time, a car must be drivable, a washing machine must wash clothes.
How many people did the ignition switch kill?
workmanship should include design. Design is part of the work going in to the build.
Seems that the "work" done by an engineer (designer) and draftsman would come under the definition of workmanship....or at least argued to that effect by a good and well paid lawyer.
Exactly my thoughts, engineering and assembly are all part of workmanship. A contractor builds a fence that falls down unexpectedly from bad design, being properly nailed with correct materials is not a good defense to poor workmanship. Trying to razzle dazzle with the engineering complexity of a transmission is bullshit, people bought a transmission with a warranty, a reasonable person would properly assume this includes design flaws.
This is why I bought a Toyota Sequoia. It's actually a very American car, more of is built in the states than other car companies. The 5.7 L motor in Sequoia and Tundra is actually a GM design that they had to sell during bankruptcy in the 90's.
All you have to do is look at the cars that the Big Three built starting at about 1971 or so; uniforming ugly. Their initial response to the then new pollution regs was to make the engines horrible. IMHO, they really have never recovered from that era.
For me, there was a '97 F-150 that I bought used. Kept for about four years, it required upwards of $1000 a year in repairs. It was a uniformly horrible vehicle. I asked myself repeatedly that if this is the attitude they had towards the design of their single biggest-selling vehicle, what about the others? I sold it ask quickly as I could save the money to pay cash for a new truck. I bought an '05 Titan, and 235000 miles later, still drive it. I have put maybe $3000 into repairs on it - half of which was really maintenance at this milage. I still love my titan and will drive it until it dies.
I will never, ever own a Big Three vehicle.
My last GM vehicle was a 1971 Vega. The grill fell out at the first traffic light that I stopped at. I have made it a point to tell people about that and the constant stream of problems that it had.
My mom has a Chevy Impala. The rear window defogger stopped working. I googled it. Found hit after hit about this cable connection on the front passenger side. I find the connection and pull it apart. The thick black wire to the defogger is fried to hell at the connector. I cut the wire on bother sides and solder them together with an in-line fuse, haven't had a problem since. Apparently this flaw has existed in models going back a decade.
Steve, I have a Cadillac which has had some HVAC woes... mode selection doesn't work properly.... select floor and it blows out the defroster, select vent and it blows out the floor, select bi-level and it blows out nowhere. I've taken the car in 5 times for this... on round 4 they ended up pulling the dashboard to replace the HVAC case as some plastic parts were broken. I had some good timing here - there were 3 days left on the warranty!
When heating season came around again last year... same problem: No heat in the floor. I was able to duplicate the issue for my service advisor, who noted it on the repair order. Of course the tech couldn't duplicate the problem. The last line on the notes says: "TECH SUPPORT WAS CONTACTED. GM TECH ASSISTANCE SAID THIS IS A NORMAL CONDITION AS DESIGNED."
automakers
Early in my I.T. career a computer salesman explained to me how things work. He said when a company is first established, it is run by entrepreneurs - problem solvers; later, as the company evolves it is controlled by lawyers and bean counters. G.M. proves this case.
Indeed; Read a book called "The Peter Principle" written by J Lawrance Peter(Sp?)
I own a (one-owner, still!) 1994 suburban with a "Lifetime Service Agreement" on the AC compressor. After about compressor number 6 or 7 (~2018), GM decided to invalidate the LSA, only covering the part cost from that replacement forward. Unsurprisingly, the compressor failed again after ~6 months, and here I sit with no AC once again... They've never replaced the drier, condenser, or rear expansion valve, so this is an expected outcome. They won't give me this change in the agreement in writing, and I discovered this after picking the truck up last with a bill to foot. I'm not surprised to see this behavior from them. My family has bought only GM vehicles only for over 20 years, but that's down the drain as a result of their handling of this, and their drop in vehicle longevity.
At first I thought this was about their new logo design.
I have always wanted a Corvette. Being informed of the transmission problems of the (L8's) I looked hard to find a 2014 "Stingray with a six speed automatic ". I found a beauty. In the process I called a Big Corvette Dealer in Huston Texas to see their opinion about "would I be OK to look for a 2015 thru 2019 Corvette". His opinion was "Those guys who have anything bad to say about the L8 transmissions have too much time on their hands". "At worst a fluid change fixes everything".
I'm 65 and was a lifelong GM customer until my last two GM vehicles. They broke me of that habit and I won't buy another unless it's older than 1970.
. My 6.5 L 93 runs pretty good
And you still want to buy American cars and trucks. Don't people realize these big three (as they are called) don't give a rat's ass about the American consumers, they never have and they never will. They didn't learn the last time they almost lost their companies and yet nothing has changed, they don't care about you Mr. Lehto or any other American person. The American consumers have to be the most forgiving people on earth. If you want to make them change their tactics and respect the American consumers, Don't buy their junk and they'll have to change.
This is a reflection of a problem with many US companies. Short vs long term profits. The decision makers bonuses are based on this quarters profits, not on the profits 5 years from now. The decision makers may not even employed at that manufacture 5 years from now. Shareholder profits are based on tomorrow's stock price, not on the stock price 5 years from now. Decision makers and shareholder are incentivized to only look at the short term and are disincentivized to look long term.
Them same fallacy exists when a company moves it manufacturing to another country like China where there are joint venture and technology transfer requirements. This may be great for short term profitability and the resulting decision makers bonuses and tomorrow's stock price gains. However it will be devastating to the company in the long term, when there is a new low cost competator on the market.
Long term employees and shareholders are a thing of the past, which will inevitably lead to a decline in the US as a whole.
This one got his juices flowing.
I don’t think their 6 speed automatics are any better.
Correct. I have a 6L80 and that thing is slipping in low gears
I have owned exactly one GM car, a 1979 Safari (faux woody) station wagon. It was an OK car and we enjoyed many car trips in it with our young (at the time) family.
Without naming any brands, could you tell me how expensive was the most expensive car you ever lemoned out?
I've had a few over $100K.
@@stevelehto those are some expensive lemons lol
@@darkstorminc he should call his office "Steve's lemonade stand."
@@HH-ru4bj or "Steve's lemon-aid stand"
@@DePaul31 now you're thinkin.
I currently own a 2007 GMC Yukon Denali XL. It has only 138,000 miles. It doesn't have the 8 speed transmission but it does have the following issues.
Check engine light has been on for the last 50K miles.
Automatic retracting running boards stuck in down position.
Automatic leveling suspension system no longer works.
Air bag light.
Hood open light permanently on.
Stabilitrac light come on persistently.
Traction control light comes on persistently.
Rear hatch opener doesn't work when it is below zero.
Rear wiper no longer works.
Remote start no longer works.
Rear view camera no longer works.
Gas tank strap rusted out and gas tank almost fell out of the truck.
The fuel pump outlet rusted out causing fuel to leak.
Tire pressure monitor for left rear tire no longer works.
Exhaust manifold bolts broke causing exhaust leaks.
AC system no longer can hold a charge.
Exterior side trim on passenger door fell off.
Break light switch sticks sometimes causing the Cruise Control to not engage without taping the break pedal first.
Many lug nuts rust out and swell the stainless cap so lug nut wrench no longer fit.
Spare tire carrier cable rusted up so tire cannot be lowered.
Rusty body panels.
Other than these things, I like the truck! Ha Ha!!!
But do you drive it or is it driveable?
@@wizzard5442 of course I drive it.
@@stevewolff7187 So you're driving an unsafe and a not-fit-for-purpose vehicle? You cause an accident resulting in fatalities and injuries and say "not my fault nothing to see here"?
@@wizzard5442 Don't be such a puss. Nothing unsafe about it. It runs and drives and stops just fine. Most of the issues are from electrical BS. Please explain how any of the issue could cause an accident?
@@stevewolff7187
Explaining it is too much typing and you'd ignore it anyway.
All I'm going to say is, you were warned that the truck is unsafe and shouldnt be driven.
There is a saying "accidents do happen".
Oh btw, is the truck insured? Because if it is, and you have an accident, when the insurance company inspects the truck, they'll say exactly what I said, and will deem your policy null and void.
BUT! Whats the bet you're not insured and the other party claims damages against you? You got enough dollars?
"They all do that."
If you find an 8 speed that works fine, can you debunk the design claim?
My friend has one of these. The shudder feels like you are driving on a rumble strip. Drove me nuts for 2 hours... as a passenger. I won't ride in it for more than a few minutes.
Get engine/transmission programmer to retune the ecu on the transmission it will never do that again
The shudder can usually be greatly reduced or even eliminated by a full flush of the transmission fluid. It is quite expensive because it requires 20 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic fluid, but the powertrain warranty will cover the flush. I flushed a Yukon transmission 3 days ago that had a shudder that was quite bad. I could not feel it at all after the flush. If that doesn't work, a new torque converter should fix it. The shifting issues are a much tougher nut to crack.
Having owned several Nissans ('91 Sentra 5 speed, '94 Sentra, '00 Altima, '14 Versa & '17 Sentra - all bought new) I can attest to your claim that Nissan USED to be out to sell you your next 5 vehicles. However since the Altima (traded at ~242,000 miles at 15 years old - only major repair was new radiator I installed myself - but eventually killed by rust) the quality of the Nissans I've had has gone WAY down.
Toyota / Honda / Mazda will likely be the only places I will be shopping when I decide having a new car payment is better than sticking with the Sentra I'm driving now.
Gm used to have silent recalls, you pay unless you knew of the recall.
Ford too. My dad got free replacements for his fenders that rusted - a Ford executive told him to write a letter, and told him where to send it, and voila! A new pair of fenders arrived a while later - Dad had to get them painted himself, but no charges for the parts.
Memories of being bounced from an overbooked Mexicana flight, being told it was my fault, and no mention of the compensation that the FAA requires. Mexicana isn't around any more.
They still do it, all of em do.
They're called technical Service Bulletins!!!They know there's a problem, but hope you don't know! They get away with it unless there's an official recall!!
@@paulcrumley9756 Sounds like Chev Vega ! 3 recalls for defective cooling system then recall for rusty fenders time to look for Toyota !!
I had a 2017 Silverado.... the transmission in this truck never knew where it was or when to shift. I complained about it every time I went for service. I test drove a newer version of the silverado while my truck was having warrantee work done, this newer trucks transmission had no issues, ran like a dream. The service dept told me that the issues I had were non issues in that design year..... The transfer case/4wd sounded like a 1940s manual transmission when in 4wd, they said it was normal for that year vehicles..( sold it at 23,000 miles).. I now own a Ram...
Hmmmm. GM has been down this road before. Not covering the design defect is a new twist however. A design defect that impacts the car's safe operation? Can you say NHTSA?
It is not new twist. Learn about the defective steering boxes to see a really grim story.
Honda has my business because of the attitude of American car manufacturers. The American assemblers all started looking short-term in the early 90's. I held out hope until the 00's. Most of my friends have come to the same conclusion.
The Honda Odyssey was issued a recall just last month for over 1.6 million of the minivans. ... The lawsuit covers 2018 and 2019 Odyssey minivans with the nine-speed transmission and takes in all current and former owners and lessees
They aren't going to just lose their legacy customer sales, they will lose sales from their children and other relatives.
Anthony Vollmer
That's what Legacy means!
Not while people take there vehicle to dealership and have there transmissions replaced or fixed and are not told, among other very well thought threw part failures that make dealerships of that vehicle money.
@@dodgeguyz Those people aren't "legacy" customers until they buy a car from there. And while it wasn't a car company, here's an example from my family about how treating a customer like dirt loses you future business.
My dad passed away in 1975 after a brief illness. Because he travelled a lot for work, he had several gas credit cards that had small balances on them (like $10 on two of them, $20 on the other). Mom contacted the three companies to cancel dad's account and see about getting cards in her name alone. Here's how the three conversations went:
1) We're really sorry to hear about your loss. Of course, we'll send you a card in your name, and because your husband was a good customer for a number of years, we're going to waive the $10 balance.
2) We're really sorry to hear about your loss. Of course, we'll send you a card in your name. There is a $20 balance, but we've marked your account not to bother you about any outstanding balance for the next six months.
3) We're really sorry to hear about your loss, but we don't issue cards to single women. And since the account is now closed, you'll need to pay that off in the next 30 days or we'll refer the debt to a collection agency.
So mom sent them a $10 check, and never bought another gallon of gas from them as long as she drove. I've now been driving for 40 years, and I've never bought a gallon of gas from them. Hell, one time I ran out, and I walked about half a mile _past_ one of their stations to buy gas elsewhere.
Not giving her the card was bad, but threatening to get a collection agency involved continues to piss me off no end. They were so anxious to get that $10 that it's cost them tens of thousands in lost business.
Somehow, this story reminded me of the following non sequitur: Back in the day I used to call Dynaflow transmissions, as well as centrifugal clutches, "Slip-o-matic transmissions."
I’ve been driving Chevy trucks for 28 years and I’ve told many people I will never buy another GM Product again. Everyday IM kicking myself for not buying a Tundra.
They aren’t any better. I’ve had numerous issues with mine that I unfortunately inherited. I would never buy a Tundra based on my experience.
@@ShadowBannedagain Give me your email and I’d be happy to send you copies of the service receipts that I inherited and I’ve made since taking the vehicle over. Make enough sense to you now?
13:54 lol. you pulled that law book from behind my ear! lol Good one, Steve Copperfield
I remember when a design defect caused a particular car from the 1970s to explode when it was rear ended. That didn't go well for Ford.
The funny thing is there was film about the pinto and exec's still said it was safe
@@edschwendiman2566 According to the Popular Mechanics article on the Pinto... It would've taken about $11/car to deal with the problems. Ford did a cost analysis and came up with $49M in lawsuit costs vs $113M to properly fix the design flaws.
Mother Jones came up with Ford internal communications for their article that finally spurred the NTSB into action.
GM and what was once Chrysler and the now defunct AMC were no better.
These aren’t low end vehicles either, these are many of their higher priced and highest margin vehicles. This defense is suicidal.
P.S. I made this comment about a minute before Steve mentioned it.
Yea it's crazy like these probably lowest end are in the 40ks for like an ATS with no options maybe or a Camaro maybe. But all the SUVs mentioned gotta be 70k plus. I could be wrong, but damn these people that can afford the big money cars and trucks hopefully are smart enough to never come back to them after this. It sucks that this is the American cars way anymore and they basically should be left to die off as they will with their own products and practices. No bailout, because Americans dont need options like these. It's sad its coming to this.
How many people who (at some point) will hear the stories of what these companies that "assemble parts that become vehicles" have done and how they treated their high-end customers, will think twice before buying from them. Some might ask advice from their friends, their parents, their grandparents, and they tell them maybe it's not a good idea to buy from these companies. Or what about all the UA-cam channels that recommend good companies to buy vehicles. They might remind their views of these duty deeds.
So in 10 years (or so) those "assembly of parts" companies just might not have any customers left to buy what they have assembled.
"The only thing the company hates more the bad publicity, is a bad quarterly report!"
Wait till you find out that every GM engine with AFM (since 06 I believe) eats itself and costs thousands in repairs at under 100k mi. And if you don't delete or at least disable it, it will just fail again.
I've always wondered what percentage of the overall vehicles provided with the "bad transmission" actually have issues.
This makes me think if I ever want to drop 70K on a vehicle that may become a driveway ornament at any time because of bad design.
Bad design is poor engineering unless accounting did not approve a material due to cost.
@@horrido666 Thanks for taking the time to reply and making distinction between the two. I am not a designer(I did take drafting classes many years ago in high-school) or an engineer. However, I do believe both designer and engineer need to work together on a component for a finished good, whatever the product may be. If engineering found a part does not work as intended, they would go back to the "drawing board" until it works, but it seems that with GM this did not work. Their design was approved while something was missed during validation or did not meet cost requirements. Where all designers and engineers pushed to have all tests completed on a short deadline?
If a government can permit a car company to absolve themselves of blame for a product they designed incompetently you can safely say that government is not a government of the people but is so deeply in the pockets of said company that they are not fit to govern.