Master Mirror Maybe you are right, it also happened in FF8 when Martine used Squall and co to assassinate his enemies so he would get rid of them without facing any legal repercussions.
Honestly looking at this with more adult eyes, best writing in the series and not in a "its good for a video game" sort of way. I loved VI-X with all my heart, but this is the briefest of glimpses of what the series could become, if they bin the overt anime stylings.
While the gameplay and overall storyline were divisive for series fans, I think this is unquestionably the entry in the series with the highest quality of writing, as this speech so capably illustrates. As for the change in direction, I think Xenoblade illustrates how effective it's systems could be if kept and refined, and I found the at times more down to earth, politicized nature of the story somewhat refreshing for a JRPG myself. I think 12 is at the very least the best non PS1-game, and in my opinion better than 8. While the PS1 games represent my youth, twelve was the only time I felt like the series was growing up with me somewhat.
Vayne is however, arguably one of the most well written villains in the series, his machinations throughout the game and his rise to power were well done.
brilliant political strategist, he is the most realistic villain square has ever put out, and I am not even sure he is a villan honestly, all he was trying to do was take over a country so he could steer humanity away from the rule of the Occuria, because he felt he was the only one with enough tactics and power to take man's destiny away from the gods, he didn't believe Ashe was qualified. That's not an antagonist to me
By the nature of the story, yes he is an antagonist if he directly opposes the protagonist. The fact he was so self-centered that he couldn't accept another being qualified or capable of taking man's destiny away from the gods also shows he is villainous as someone who is not a villain wouldn't try to destroy or be rid of another just for thinking them inadequate like Vayne did. As a typical fan, you let your admiration muck up your sense of reason.
That's what i love about this game. Both sides were trying to get the same thing, to make the Oscuria unable to keep humanity under control, the game breaks into "good and evil" trying to do the same thing, the only reason the war was happening was because of political issues, this is a wonderful example of "Matter of Perspective" we could play as vayne and the empire and the objectives would be the same with different means.
peregrine I don't think it's completely justifiable to say that Vayne isn't a bad guy. He murders people to accomplish his goals. I do, however, love how FF12 brings to light how there are sometimes morally grey areas. Does the end justify the means? Ashe and co. consider destructive options similar to Vayne: use more power to gain "freedom." Until Ashe realizes that the power vs power war of attrition isn't the best option for her kingdom, her mentality is pretty similar to Vayne's: everything is permissible when it nets your side a victory. Great. Game. Vastly underappreciated for just how well crafted the political drama of Ivalice was. Plus the combat and character building were on point :D
What a great speech. He turned a crowd of people booing him to a crowd of people applauding and cheering for him. He took their feelings for their king and used it as a weapon. He made it so that it sounded like if THEY stayed in line THEY would be doing him a big favor and it would serve the memory of their beloved ruler well. He played that crowd like a fiddle, then went on to do the same thing to Migelo.
@miyamotofan It's kind of the opposite of "I come not to praise Caesar, but to bury him" where Mark Antony incites the audience by doing exactly the opposite of what he claims at the beginning. In Vayne's case, he's saying "I don't care if you hate me as long as you honor your fallen monarchs whom you quite rightly loved." In reality, he's coaxing the people into liking him. It's very clever statecraft.
I genuinely believe that Nomura does not understand a single word or meaning in this cutscene. And i'm not talking about language barrier or something no he legitimately doesn't have the IQ to get what Vaynes speech is all about. Hope XVI has a similar overall direction because that first trailer felt like it shat all over Nomura like "step aside kid let the adults handle this (and don't forget your useless mystery box)" and boy did it felt good.
maybe a hero in someways. I do not think Venat really cared about whether people died or not. Venat really had one goal and that was to reduce the grasp of the Occuria for whatever reason we do not know. Venat didn't care that Nabradia was destroyed, and he didn't care if Archadia took over the world. All he really cared about was to destroy the Sun-cryst and thus the other Occuria's grasp. I don't see Venat as a heroic figure, but his actions did benefit the mortals of Ivalice in the end.
Vayne and specially Dr. Cid are good villains, but I dont see how Kefka is worse. Yes, Exdeath is an Ent who has wet dreams with the Void, but Kefka is so much more. Tormented by the idea of death, he is unable to enjoy or even understand thngs like dreams or hope since they will dissapear. For him only destruction has meaning since its the only thing certain in life. He is a nihilistic, Cid and Vayne are philantropist who wont stand for the tyranny of the gods, none of them are 2-dimensional
Old reply I know but: Vayne is saying “I don’t care if you hate me. I ask only that you honor the memories of the monarchs you loved quite dearly.” In his own way, it’s doing quite a bit to get the people to like him because he will do his part to honor the memories of the monarchs he, in effect, toppled.
ivalice in FF is repeated too many... and they have like 20 different worlds and in all of em, gil is used as money (war funds where the name of money in FF tactis, but in the psp version it was changed to gil)... and also in all of em chocobos exist
eer no,in terms of writing vayne is as clear as it gets.His morality isn't the same as those with unrealistic intentions (kefka,laguna,seymour,sepiroth....)
![Final Fantasy XIII - Boss 22 "Barthandelus" [HD]](/img/n.gif)
This speech had me convinced Vayne wasn't an antagonist. Damn, this was good acting/writing. One of my favorite FF villains.
And you would be right if it was for another FF but Ivalice is loomed with Deception.
+SwordSkill2 Uh no that's just your own opinion
Master Mirror Maybe you are right, it also happened in FF8 when Martine used Squall and co to assassinate his enemies so he would get rid of them without facing any legal repercussions.
Kefka Palazzo was the best Final Fantasy villain ever as he was just plain evil from Final Fantasy 6's beginning and end.
That smirk at the end told me otherwise, though.
Honestly looking at this with more adult eyes, best writing in the series and not in a "its good for a video game" sort of way. I loved VI-X with all my heart, but this is the briefest of glimpses of what the series could become, if they bin the overt anime stylings.
While the gameplay and overall storyline were divisive for series fans, I think this is unquestionably the entry in the series with the highest quality of writing, as this speech so capably illustrates.
As for the change in direction, I think Xenoblade illustrates how effective it's systems could be if kept and refined, and I found the at times more down to earth, politicized nature of the story somewhat refreshing for a JRPG myself. I think 12 is at the very least the best non PS1-game, and in my opinion better than 8. While the PS1 games represent my youth, twelve was the only time I felt like the series was growing up with me somewhat.
agree 100%
Vayne is however, arguably one of the most well written villains in the series, his machinations throughout the game and his rise to power were well done.
brilliant political strategist, he is the most realistic villain square has ever put out, and I am not even sure he is a villan honestly, all he was trying to do was take over a country so he could steer humanity away from the rule of the Occuria, because he felt he was the only one with enough tactics and power to take man's destiny away from the gods, he didn't believe Ashe was qualified. That's not an antagonist to me
By the nature of the story, yes he is an antagonist if he directly opposes the protagonist. The fact he was so self-centered that he couldn't accept another being qualified or capable of taking man's destiny away from the gods also shows he is villainous as someone who is not a villain wouldn't try to destroy or be rid of another just for thinking them inadequate like Vayne did. As a typical fan, you let your admiration muck up your sense of reason.
That's what i love about this game. Both sides were trying to get the same thing, to make the Oscuria unable to keep humanity under control, the game breaks into "good and evil" trying to do the same thing, the only reason the war was happening was because of political issues, this is a wonderful example of "Matter of Perspective" we could play as vayne and the empire and the objectives would be the same with different means.
peregrine I don't think it's completely justifiable to say that Vayne isn't a bad guy. He murders people to accomplish his goals. I do, however, love how FF12 brings to light how there are sometimes morally grey areas. Does the end justify the means? Ashe and co. consider destructive options similar to Vayne: use more power to gain "freedom." Until Ashe realizes that the power vs power war of attrition isn't the best option for her kingdom, her mentality is pretty similar to Vayne's: everything is permissible when it nets your side a victory.
Great. Game. Vastly underappreciated for just how well crafted the political drama of Ivalice was. Plus the combat and character building were on point :D
This madman swayed an ENTIRE CITY of people that hated his guts to join him
What a great speech. He turned a crowd of people booing him to a crowd of people applauding and cheering for him. He took their feelings for their king and used it as a weapon. He made it so that it sounded like if THEY stayed in line THEY would be doing him a big favor and it would serve the memory of their beloved ruler well. He played that crowd like a fiddle, then went on to do the same thing to Migelo.
Vayne Solidor, the only true antagonist who had a goal that didnt include destroying the world, but saving it.
0:58
"Put your script away, I got this shit."
"Your excellency!"
Final Fantasy Dissidia NT has been announced a new character to join!
It's Vayne Solidor!
Vayne Solidor was actually my favorite character in this game.
Same here
@miyamotofan It's kind of the opposite of "I come not to praise Caesar, but to bury him" where Mark Antony incites the audience by doing exactly the opposite of what he claims at the beginning. In Vayne's case, he's saying "I don't care if you hate me as long as you honor your fallen monarchs whom you quite rightly loved." In reality, he's coaxing the people into liking him. It's very clever statecraft.
Final fantasy 12 is like the games of thrones of video games
Vayne looks like the love child of Laguna from FFVIII and Nooj from FFX-2.
I like Vayne looks like Gaston from Beauty and the beast.
The funny thing is I saw Vayne's voice actor in a play version of Julius Caesar playing Marc Antony.
This is my favorite Final fantasy villain as well.
I genuinely believe that Nomura does not understand a single word or meaning in this cutscene.
And i'm not talking about language barrier or something no he legitimately doesn't have the IQ to get what Vaynes speech is all about.
Hope XVI has a similar overall direction because that first trailer felt like it shat all over Nomura like "step aside kid let the adults handle this (and don't forget your useless mystery box)" and boy did it felt good.
What did he mean by this?
Kefka is not a traditionnal vilain :|, don't compare him to Exdeath.
About Vayne, indeed he's a great Vilain. Maybe not the best, but a great one.
maybe a hero in someways. I do not think Venat really cared about whether people died or not. Venat really had one goal and that was to reduce the grasp of the Occuria for whatever reason we do not know.
Venat didn't care that Nabradia was destroyed, and he didn't care if Archadia took over the world. All he really cared about was to destroy the Sun-cryst and thus the other Occuria's grasp. I don't see Venat as a heroic figure, but his actions did benefit the mortals of Ivalice in the end.
Vayne and specially Dr. Cid are good villains, but I dont see how Kefka is worse. Yes, Exdeath is an Ent who has wet dreams with the Void, but Kefka is so much more. Tormented by the idea of death, he is unable to enjoy or even understand thngs like dreams or hope since they will dissapear. For him only destruction has meaning since its the only thing certain in life. He is a nihilistic, Cid and Vayne are philantropist who wont stand for the tyranny of the gods, none of them are 2-dimensional
I love how there’s 0 evidence left that all of these comments about Kefka used to be part of a single thread
i like the speech. he' speaks like prince of an emperor
Why am I suddenly reminded of Lord Farquaad from Shrek?
This guy truly IS a politician. He made this huge speech and barely said nothing.
So what exactly is he saying? "Feel free to hate me, but don't because the king would have liked peace"?
Old reply I know but: Vayne is saying “I don’t care if you hate me. I ask only that you honor the memories of the monarchs you loved quite dearly.”
In his own way, it’s doing quite a bit to get the people to like him because he will do his part to honor the memories of the monarchs he, in effect, toppled.
he has me convinced
Vayne =)
inviolable will
vayne is quite vain
lol I can imagine at the end if he went all "LOL jk"
And later he nearly destroys Dalmasca
@londoner7991 well i dont think FFXIII is crap. what i like the most from 13 was the character dev.
@londoner7991 I could not agree more.
@SeraphimSwordmaster I get it...clever.
What a sleeeeeeeze.....I love him ;P
ivalice in FF is repeated too many... and they have like 20 different worlds and in all of em, gil is used as money (war funds where the name of money in FF tactis, but in the psp version it was changed to gil)... and also in all of em chocobos exist
Very underrated game, but Vayne has nothing on other classic FF villains.
eer no,in terms of writing vayne is as clear as it gets.His morality isn't the same as those with unrealistic intentions (kefka,laguna,seymour,sepiroth....)
Vayne...a bastard guy...the best liar...
Is he really a villain? Seems more like an anti-villain.
hmm...Obama?:D
Vayne is the only good thing about this boring ass game.
Foh here you Boring Bra