That Deltic Drone ! The Greatest Sounding Diesel ? The Napier Necessities !

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  • Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
  • A mini compilation of my favourite captured Deltic scenes which feature mostly D9009 Alycidon along side 55022 Royal Scots Grey and a single but brief view of D9016 Gordon Highlander on the rarest of trains. That famous Napier soundtrack provides an audible feast for those who love the sight and sound of a Class 55 Deltic. Many of those who were around to see the switchover from steam to Deltic will testify to the brilliance of these locos and Its a crying shame that these locomotives aren't as prevalent on the mainline as steam as the following for these class 55's are unrivaled. You'll have to excuse the quality of the video as these scenes were all captured before we acquired our 4K cameras so the images are not as sharp as our recent videos. I hope you enjoy a look at our favourite Deltic shots spanning a three year period between 2013 & 2016.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 283

  • @ianmitchell1594
    @ianmitchell1594 2 роки тому +48

    As a youngster back in the seventies I used to lay in bed listening to the Deltic kings cross to Edinburgh express and still can remember it like it was yesterday 👍

    • @timhubbard8895
      @timhubbard8895 2 роки тому +5

      I lived in flats not far from the Seven Sisters/Hornsey Road area. Some distance away from the Finsbury Park depot, but I distinctly remember hearing them being revved up from my home. It's a sound you never forget. Great memories!

    • @vernongoodey5096
      @vernongoodey5096 11 місяців тому +2

      Yep spent the night in a b & b in york all night I could hear the Napier roar as the sleepers went past

    • @mariafrost1762
      @mariafrost1762 3 місяці тому

      Yup, me too...... we lived near the ECML between New Barnet and Oakleigh Park. Late at night you could hear that drone for miles!

  • @davtona
    @davtona 2 роки тому +35

    I was an apprentice in the late 70’s at Paxman GEC diesels, we spent time building and testing Deltics during our time there, the con-rods were mirror polished, and the gears in the phasing case rang when the engine was up and running, phenomenal piece of engineering even today, no other internal combustion engine comes near it for design innovation and concept.

  • @helenphillips4204
    @helenphillips4204 Рік тому +54

    Deltic drone and Vulcan bomber howl. Two of the best sounds ever xx

    • @czeslawmeyer7871
      @czeslawmeyer7871 Рік тому +7

      And the class 37 and the English electric lighting all good and loud 😀

    • @wobbler101
      @wobbler101 3 місяці тому

      Have a Google for "V16 BRM".

    • @paulmeiklejones5653
      @paulmeiklejones5653 3 місяці тому

      Sound good on the outside but if you were sat going at full chat on the inside (as I did working) horrendous noisy and no ear protectors.

    • @ashfaq1999
      @ashfaq1999 2 місяці тому

      Plus the class 56 locomotive & concorde at full power !!

    • @JasonJason210
      @JasonJason210 Місяць тому

      I like the class 20 too.

  • @bobyoungson914
    @bobyoungson914 2 роки тому +56

    Used listen to the Deltics drone on a night we lived 3 miles outside railway station in York and the main line was about 1/2 mile from my house on a night I could quite clearly hear them powering up as they headed out of York towards Edinburgh it was quite melodic but yet comforting, wish I could go back those 48 years 😊

    • @robertp.wainman4094
      @robertp.wainman4094 Рік тому +8

      I was often on those Deltics on a Sunday evening 48 years ago, POWERING out of York Station - especially if they were running late..... by the time we reached Newcastle they'd nearly always made up or were ahead of time! "Melodic but yet comforting" is a perfect description.

    • @mstrbool602
      @mstrbool602 Рік тому +2

      Must have been amazing. I can hear the Colas Rail Class 37’s doing track surveys in the middle of the night near mine (Weybridge) - you just know it’s something different coming down the line! Also get what you mean about comforting!

    • @alisonlee3314
      @alisonlee3314 Рік тому +2

      I understand completely. I used to live in a house backing on to the West Coast Mainline.
      Those wonderful engines were a backdrop to my life. I miss that sound.

    • @dulls8475
      @dulls8475 Рік тому +7

      I wish we could all go back 48 years for many reasons.

    • @stephencope7178
      @stephencope7178 Рік тому +1

      Any closer and the bedroom would be full of fumes too!

  • @jakublulek3261
    @jakublulek3261 Рік тому +12

    Sounds like a torpedo boat, crossed with a big aeroplane. Impressive and truly British engineering eccentricity in action.

  • @ridefast0
    @ridefast0 2 роки тому +33

    Brought back memories of a failed DMU in Suffolk, dragged along its route by a 'sportily driven' Deltic back in the 70s or 80s, an experience never to be forgotten by all who rode that day!

  • @marvwatkins7029
    @marvwatkins7029 2 роки тому +29

    The Deltic: a very loud, but attractive locomotive with a great 2-tone horn. It did BR proud

  • @meltonin8837
    @meltonin8837 11 місяців тому +7

    Love the sound, love the clag (sorry Greta). My favourite diesel locomotives along with the wonderful Westerns.

  • @martiniv8924
    @martiniv8924 Рік тому +2

    As someone mentioned, I too can remember lying in bed on summer nights, and hearing the drone of the Deltic’s 👌🏻😎

  • @Guard_Amos
    @Guard_Amos 2 роки тому +7

    One word. 'Magnificent'. My favourite Class of diesel. You can tell they exude power. Even when turned off. Had some good tours with them. Still quite capable of doing what they were built to do

  • @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329
    @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329 2 роки тому +20

    Always love the sound of the engine from the deltic

  • @oscargonzales7948
    @oscargonzales7948 10 місяців тому +1

    People living near the railroad must have loved them. Hearing them at midnight must be a wonderful memory.

  • @philipslater5015
    @philipslater5015 2 дні тому

    Spent hours watching these and the last of the A4s on the East Coast mainline.
    The undulating drone could be heard a long time before you could see it.
    Standing on the platform as this beast went through at full speed was as good as it got.
    Later in life, one of my neighbours, a keen modeller, had worked at Napiers on the Deltic engine.

  • @kennethturner7057
    @kennethturner7057 2 роки тому +6

    I had the pleasure of listening to the sound of Deltics running for three years every time I went to sea as the UK's Royal Navy had two fitted to the HUNT class minesweepers as there main propulsion............what a joy that was!

    • @damianharris2167
      @damianharris2167 2 роки тому +1

      @kennethturner Do they actually sound the same on the ships as they do on the locomotives?

    • @kennethturner7057
      @kennethturner7057 2 роки тому +3

      @@damianharris2167 Pretty much which was a joy...........the only problem now is the RN has replaced them all for Cats as they were getting unreliable and expensive to run as spares became harder to source.

  • @alan_mythicalgnome
    @alan_mythicalgnome 2 роки тому +6

    My late Father regularly took me down to London from Manchester in the 70s and we'd always stop at Kings Cross to see the BR blue deltics in action. We loved them. Such iconic locos.

    • @robertp.wainman4094
      @robertp.wainman4094 2 роки тому +2

      Yes, I remember as a young boy standing alongside a throbbing Deltic for the first time at Doncaster Station - and thinking it was like a beast straining on it's leash to be 'off' - even at that age I was aware that no other locomotive ticked over in such a spectacular fashion - or looked so supremely powerful! I was at KX th other day and thought how sterile it looked with the rather boring Hitachi's......even worse I then had to ride a Hull Trains version and suffer it's numbingly uncomfortable seats and agitated ride. You're right the Deltics were an icon!

  • @tradingcardboss
    @tradingcardboss 2 роки тому +3

    A beast of an engine . Standing at track level next to one you realise how big they were

  • @washy1965
    @washy1965 Рік тому +2

    NICE TO SEE AND HEAR THEM LOVELY DELTICS AGAIN . FANTASTIC FOOTAGE ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ IT👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 HAPPY 🎄🎄🎄🎄TO EVERYONE

  • @novakingood3788
    @novakingood3788 2 роки тому +2

    I used to love seeing the Deltics hauling trains out of King's Cross in my youth in the 70's, the downside being I'd end up with headaches and feeling pretty grotty from breathing the fumes all day. Happy Days!

  • @jameskruklinski266
    @jameskruklinski266 Рік тому +4

    If only we could make engines like that again

  • @bobgarske9579
    @bobgarske9579 10 місяців тому +2

    Thanks for posting this. The Deltics have been my favorite ever since I discovered them.

  • @mikep4821
    @mikep4821 2 роки тому +3

    The Napier drone used to hang in the night air in Durham when I was at Uni there in the late 60s. Unforgettable.

  • @24934637
    @24934637 Рік тому +1

    Years ago I was taking some photos on what I thought was a disused piece of railway.....Turned out that it wasn't disused and I was lucky enough to be standing right next to the track when a Deltic rumbled past fairly slowly. Gave the driver a bit of a surprise as I didn't have any clothes on at the time (Being well away from where I expected to find ANY other people and it being a lovely hot sunny day). Absolutely awesome to see, hear, feel and smell one go past so close!

  • @peebee143
    @peebee143 Рік тому +3

    Thank you, loved that! I have had my hand on 9009 & 9019's handles (on Heritage lines) several years back. Used to be a shareholder of 9000 & 9016 about a million years ago. Have done some work on 9016 under different ownership in later years. Been onboard several of the fleet when engines started, 9016 topping up oil level when other PU started up, no ear-defenders, just pure sonic magic!! Still love the Deltics!

  • @thisisbob1001
    @thisisbob1001 Рік тому +2

    Nice to see going through Narborough

  • @ChrisBigBad
    @ChrisBigBad Рік тому +3

    Crikey! This was before the invention of ultra fine particulate matter, when everything still was ultra coarse particulate matter ^^

  • @Roscoe.P.Coldchain
    @Roscoe.P.Coldchain 2 роки тому +1

    Always thought these trains were mean looking, as a kid growing up in the 70s I always remember the distinct yellow front coming towards you with that roar, just a beautiful train, thankyou for the video 🫶

  • @Carrera-gp9od
    @Carrera-gp9od Рік тому +1

    This brings back memories of my childhood in Paisley
    Two Deltics used to pass my house regularly pulling coal wagons
    A great sight , the house used to shake too !

  • @iainbruce3376
    @iainbruce3376 Рік тому +1

    Remember seeing one of these blasting out of chatham station tunnel in the 90s.. the smoke and the noise was immense

  • @alisonlee3314
    @alisonlee3314 Рік тому +2

    A wonderful video. They are SO beautiful.

  • @EMuksteam
    @EMuksteam 2 роки тому +3

    Brilliant video Liam and Phil.. it’s a great sound you get from those diesels. They are fantastic and worth seeing, . Enjoyable watching. Kind regards C&A

  • @bsimpson6204
    @bsimpson6204 2 роки тому +3

    I worked on the railways when Deltics were running up and down, they looked and sounded great. Later on, by chance, I got a cab ride in one, that was quite an experiance

  • @jonathanhasnip3700
    @jonathanhasnip3700 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent video!!
    Love the sound of the Deltic's 👍❤️

  • @adammacer
    @adammacer Рік тому +1

    Will never forget hearing my first at Kings X ca. 1981 - a rare treat for a teenager from the Cotswolds.. Whether it was the greatest sounding is a subjective thing but it was for sure the most sophisticated sounding diesel.. a world away from the Class 50's I was used to..

  • @Steven_Rowe
    @Steven_Rowe 2 роки тому +1

    Without a doubt the best sound diesel loco ever especially with both engines running.
    The deep throbbing noise and that roar made them special

  • @morrislouiseeagle7161
    @morrislouiseeagle7161 2 роки тому +1

    oooh love that sound -thanks for sharing this with us x

  • @stever3311
    @stever3311 11 місяців тому +1

    thanks for sharing, nice footage!

  • @Julie-ye8uh
    @Julie-ye8uh Рік тому +1

    Just love these videos. Remember those days well.

  • @irelandbloke
    @irelandbloke Рік тому +1

    Superb shots ! 👍

  • @marvwatkins7029
    @marvwatkins7029 2 роки тому +1

    A well made compilation. I thank you.

  • @g8ymw
    @g8ymw 2 роки тому +1

    Standing next to these beasts at Grantham station in the pre-HST days.
    My ears are still ringing

  • @colin5296
    @colin5296 Рік тому +2

    Outstanding .

  • @splayeye0152
    @splayeye0152 2 роки тому +6

    Absolutely beautiful, they sound like a two stroke Detroit diesel found in an ASLAV which I’ve had the pleasure of hearing in person so can imagine what these sound like in person

    • @micko11154
      @micko11154 2 роки тому

      Yeh, definitely has that GM 2-stroke sound.

    • @lucythemoggy1970
      @lucythemoggy1970 2 роки тому

      yh i was just thinking that!

    • @fafnir242
      @fafnir242 Рік тому

      I was thinking it did very much sound like the Detroit engine in a Flxible Metro B.

  • @pachy444
    @pachy444 Рік тому +1

    Lovely video thanks 👍

  • @StormySkyRailProductions
    @StormySkyRailProductions 2 роки тому +3

    Very nice beautiful diesel, with a great sound!

  • @flyingpete
    @flyingpete 11 місяців тому

    Love the Napier sound. Nostalgic memories. Nice video.

  • @pfflyer3381
    @pfflyer3381 9 місяців тому

    Thank you, clean Beautiful video!

  • @johnsummers3876
    @johnsummers3876 2 роки тому +3

    In the 1970s, I used to travel from Darlington to Kings Cross (and vice versa), hoping for a Class 55 rather than a Class 47 to provide the motive power, and also used the Middlesbrough to Whitby line. In those days it appeared an impossible dream to see and hear one of these magnificent machines at Battersby!

  • @trainsmachineryldegmtrains3509
    @trainsmachineryldegmtrains3509 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent rail movie! Awesome images with trains and nice landscapes! Good work, master! Thumbs Up
    All the best from Romania
    Andrew

  • @michaeljackson2838
    @michaeljackson2838 2 роки тому +1

    Love the sound, and wow! That Clag!

  • @tonydean2541
    @tonydean2541 2 роки тому +1

    Love all the Nerds hanging out of the windows at 12.28 LOL

  • @mickmoonstudycansell1889
    @mickmoonstudycansell1889 2 роки тому +1

    Great video with awesome Napier Music, love it.👍👍👍👍

  • @100SteveB
    @100SteveB 2 роки тому +30

    Love the sound of the Deltics, only beaten in my book by an original HST with the Valenta power units screaming away! Best sound ever.

    • @rogersayers4869
      @rogersayers4869 2 роки тому +6

      Feast for the ears those Paxman-Valentas. We had them here in NSW in the XPT which was just built on the IC125 design

    • @paulrob86
      @paulrob86 2 роки тому +2

      Still think a class 37 on full power can’t be beaten for sound

    • @sullybiker6520
      @sullybiker6520 Рік тому +1

      I've got a distinct memory of standing on the platform as the radiator went past. The hot air and noise was awesome for a little kid.

    • @mstrbool602
      @mstrbool602 7 місяців тому +1

      Deltic, HST Valenta and 37 for me! All very different but equally as amazing sounding.

    • @peteratkinson922
      @peteratkinson922 7 місяців тому

      ​@@paulrob86Music from the bowels of the earth

  • @tjordulf
    @tjordulf 3 місяці тому

    These and the Class 37s, my favourites as evocative as any steam loco, and as close to the nostalgic British heart as the Spitfire or Hurricane. 💚

  • @andrewganley9016
    @andrewganley9016 2 роки тому +2

    The Deltic roar hellfire! recall leaving the 'Cross first coach in behind 55007 windows open full blast!

    • @admiralcraddock464
      @admiralcraddock464 2 роки тому +1

      And jumping up to close te window before you ebterd gas work's tunnel

  • @Senna-xi1gr
    @Senna-xi1gr 2 роки тому +1

    Fantastic cheers 👍🇬🇧

  • @ENC_Trainspotting
    @ENC_Trainspotting 2 роки тому +2

    Great video👍

  • @paultagg5589
    @paultagg5589 11 місяців тому +1

    Brilliant ❤

  • @cozmcwillie7897
    @cozmcwillie7897 Рік тому +1

    The face always put me in mind of a big ole hound dog with droopy eyes. .

  • @JonDingle
    @JonDingle 2 роки тому +1

    Impressive stuff!

  • @tridentmusic5570
    @tridentmusic5570 2 роки тому +57

    Fine -but never as good on one engine only. The Truly evocative 55 sound comes from intermodulation of the sound from TWO !

    • @bfapple
      @bfapple 2 роки тому +13

      The second engine isn’t required until 40mph. Therefore the locos often only have one engine in serviceable condition, when operating on a heritage line.

    • @gearboxobs419
      @gearboxobs419 2 роки тому +1

      @@bfapple that's logical . Thanks.

    • @12crepello
      @12crepello 2 роки тому +7

      Very true but mustn't knock the fact that at least they are still with us.

    • @adcraziness1501
      @adcraziness1501 Рік тому

      a train that sounds like a propeller aircraft

    • @v6200man
      @v6200man 2 місяці тому

      Absolutely.One engine never captures the full flavour but economics dictate

  • @sullybiker6520
    @sullybiker6520 Рік тому +1

    Making me homesick!

  • @Yosemite-George-61
    @Yosemite-George-61 4 місяці тому

    Well... I absolutely love complicated engines, and the Brits sure delivered: Napier Nomad & Sabre, RR Crecy, BRM P-75 & V-16 and the mighty Deltic... but noise wise my 1st choice is the Alco 567 (go see the Indian railways) But the Deltic has everyone covered on unusual architecture, and gets a close secon place in my book. keep 'em comming!

  • @PhilPage227
    @PhilPage227 2 роки тому +1

    Fabulous!

  • @chrisd5610
    @chrisd5610 2 роки тому +1

    wonderful

  • @hittitecharioteer
    @hittitecharioteer 7 місяців тому

    Awesome sound 👍🏻👍🏻🇮🇪☘

  • @royfearn4345
    @royfearn4345 2 роки тому +15

    Sadly, most of these shots showed only one engine running and thus missing out on the slightly out-of-synch resonance of going full monty with both Napiers wide open.

    • @johneaton25
      @johneaton25 2 роки тому +1

      😢😢😢

    • @bfapple
      @bfapple 2 роки тому +1

      When operating on a heritage line, the loco doesn’t need both engines.

    • @12crepello
      @12crepello 2 роки тому

      True but very evident at around 8:12.

  • @Doctor_Kissworthy
    @Doctor_Kissworthy 2 роки тому +1

    I never saw Deltics at speed, but clocked almost all of them at King's Cross where I used to trainspot quite a lot in the late 70's, early 80's before they were withdrawn from service. Always impressive, always beautiful to look at, and LOUD!

    • @philnewstead5388
      @philnewstead5388 2 роки тому

      I was lucky we lived at Potters Bar and for a short time backed onto the railway they were often at full power heading north as they were against the grade until about half a mile north of the station.

    • @g8ymw
      @g8ymw 2 роки тому

      PARDON?? I CANNOT HEAR YOU FOR THAT LOCO. lol

  • @calumbaxter9946
    @calumbaxter9946 Рік тому +1

    If we ever could hear the Devil approaching, I suspect this is the sound he would make…

  • @Wiencourager
    @Wiencourager 2 роки тому +6

    Interesting sound, my favorite are the old Baldwins, especially the twin engine transfer units like MN&S #21. EMD 567 non turbo engines a close second.

  • @goast_the_vixen7428
    @goast_the_vixen7428 Рік тому +1

    they sound like spitfire nascar's
    absolutely astonishing locomotives

  • @SimonTog
    @SimonTog 2 роки тому +1

    Very nice video :)

  • @Engelbird
    @Engelbird Рік тому +1

    1:39 is magical

  • @955redavenger
    @955redavenger 5 місяців тому

    As an American, I can say that the Napier Deltic sounds superb. I love that drone noise it makes. With its 2 stroke design, they seem to be reliable engines. As far as american freight locomotives. General Electric (4 stroke engines) and EMD (2 stroke(The Tier 4 SD70ACe has a 4 stroke engine)). I love the sound that each one makes.

  • @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329
    @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329 2 роки тому +3

    55019 is still running and no mechanical problems with that loco

  • @ian_b
    @ian_b 2 роки тому +1

    Epic locomotive.

  • @papalaz4444244
    @papalaz4444244 2 роки тому +1

    On the platform, Edinburgh Waverly. No sound like it when one of these pulled out of the station. Apocalyptic :)

  • @JoOtterH
    @JoOtterH 2 роки тому +2

    Not a great diesel fan but the sound of a Deltic storming out of Kings Cross was always a thrill.

  • @bertsoderlund4095
    @bertsoderlund4095 Рік тому +1

    Well nothing beats the "Tractor" Class 37...

  • @cozmcwillie7897
    @cozmcwillie7897 Рік тому +1

    Two or three near the middle sounded better than others.

  • @martinpattison1567
    @martinpattison1567 2 роки тому +1

    😃Unbeatable. Martin. (Thailand)

  • @Tinsley56
    @Tinsley56 3 місяці тому

    Hum and thrash…….one of the best sounds ever🙂

  • @stevenclarke5606
    @stevenclarke5606 2 роки тому +1

    The Deltic an amazing piece of engineering

  • @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329
    @thebrummierailenthusiasts5329 2 роки тому +4

    And there are rumours that d9015 will be back in service for this year as well

  • @declanjoyce8640
    @declanjoyce8640 2 роки тому +1

    Deltic feast!

  • @kevinwilliams1602
    @kevinwilliams1602 Рік тому +2

    Taking 12 up the Licky unassisted. Make a note all you steam heads.

  • @ashfaq1999
    @ashfaq1999 2 місяці тому

    Great 😊

  • @darrenhillman8396
    @darrenhillman8396 2 роки тому +1

    Well..! Superlatives fail me..!
    A glorious tribute to the mighty Deltic; King of Diesels!
    Nice to see No.16 on the GCR - doubt we will ever see her run again, given that she is currently stuffed and mounted at Margate, just like KOYLI in the NRM.
    So we are extremely fortunate to have the DPS locos to enjoy, more so when Tulyar comes back into service and of course, LSL with No.22.
    Thank you gentlemen! You made a Deltic fan very happy!

  • @Tonyr2
    @Tonyr2 2 роки тому +2

    Great camera work. Especially how you framed the TPO one with the sets of signals and signal box all in shot.
    One question how do you discover when some of them are running? The passenger ones are easy enough to find but the hauling of just the diesels where do you discover the info for that?

  • @stuartrathbone5403
    @stuartrathbone5403 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks, brings back fond memeories of my boyhood in the '70s buying an east midlands rail rover in the school hol's and going back n forth between Peterborough & Doncaster on the Deltics. I echo what someone else said lower in the thread about the acceleration. BTW are the shots early in the vid (with the short rakes) on one engine or is it just that one was more of a smoker?

  • @pauljohansson288
    @pauljohansson288 2 роки тому +1

    I love the sound of the Deltic and I am from the States

  • @tdimac
    @tdimac 9 місяців тому

    Are they only running on one engine ?
    The noise from the east coast main line as they powered up outside York is still a firm childhood memory along with the thump of 37’s floating through the night air 😍

  • @tobyytlai
    @tobyytlai 2 роки тому +1

    6:00 That's a heck of a train!

  • @jameshardy1012
    @jameshardy1012 Рік тому +1

    I'm hoping to see D9000 and D9009 in action at York this year. D9000 on the 29th of October and D9009 on the 3rd of December. I've also seen D9002 King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry at the Railway Museum.

  • @noahlikestrains4472
    @noahlikestrains4472 10 місяців тому +1

    My favourite diesel locos

  • @davidirvine4294
    @davidirvine4294 2 роки тому +1

    The Deltics, Class 37s and Class 50s (in full Hoover mode), were in my opinion the greatest sounding diesels.

  • @allansr100
    @allansr100 2 роки тому +3

    These are machines with a soul …….

  • @SunshineArsenal
    @SunshineArsenal 2 роки тому +2

    Only diesel i like to watch especially with that amazing engine sound wooow😲👌🏻

  • @SneaktheWolf
    @SneaktheWolf Рік тому +1

    Class 50 **putters**
    Deltic **plane sounds**

  • @aveedub7403
    @aveedub7403 2 роки тому +1

    Smoky old motors, but the sound is glorious marine diesel!

  • @thomasshepard6030
    @thomasshepard6030 2 роки тому +1

    Seen a class 55 in one of the roads at the depot I worked at as a fireman with BR no idea why it was there it sat for a couple of days and came on shift and it was gone that was 1974 eastfield traction depot Glasgow going forward many many years my older brother drove one when he worked for DRS at Carlisle only on one engine