Steel Vs Carbon Vs Titanium Vs Aluminium - Which Is Best? | GMBN Tech Show 296
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- In this week's GMBN Tech Show, Anna is joined by Neil Donoghue from @gmbn and special guest Cy Turner from Cotic bikes to ask the question, is steel real? Frames can be made out of different materials and varying raw material prices will often dictate the price of the bike. The most popular frame materials are Steel, Carbon fibre, Titanium, and Aluminium.
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00:00 - Intro
00:29 - Is steel real? [Feat. Cy Turner]
09:30 - Back to the set
10:08 - News
12:45 - NEW GMBN Shop Shout out
12:53 - Quiz
13:18 - Bike Cave
14:48 - Comments
16:41 - Quiz
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What material is your bike made from? Would you change it if you could? 🤔 Let us know 👇
I've said this before, but there will be a time when we look back and consider our use of Carbon Fibre to be a negative time in bike building, this is purely from an environmental stand point - how can we enjoy our trails if they are being destroyed by climate change - whatever we can do, we should do.
Aluminium forever :D
Ti...nuff said! 😂
Ti for the road bike, steel for the fixed. If I was buying again, I’d get a steel road bike as they are just so comfy.
@@ianforberthis is a mountain bike channel buddy..lol..
We need a discussion about material composition not just steel, carbon, aluminum or Ti. Get Cotic back and discuss what steel and the why and why not to each. There are plenty of steels out there that need to be explored.
Aluminum is the blue-collar choice, both for the price and durability. It's for the hard-working, hard riding people who don't mind scratching and thrashing their bike.
Real people use real materials. I use steel.
Many major bike brands are going back to building aluminum downhill bikes, because they are far superior to carbon downhill bikes. But you keep drinking the Kool-Aid 🐑
I said this multiple times on this platform I’m gonna say to you again. Climate change is a complete hoax. If anybody that is believing in climate change actually knew how much CO2 was in the air. You’d be shocked at how little it is. Secondly, CO2 is vital to plants life OK they taken the CO2 back to the oxygen that we breathe. We can actually use more CO2 on this planet that we already have. You idiots need to educate yourself before you open your mouth. Because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Except for the measurable fatigue life😂
@winningbalance they're building aluminum downhill bikes because the sport is growing and they're more affordable🙃
Steel is Infact real. I definitely prefer it for hardtails because of the ride quality and they don't just split like aluminum eventually will. I've broken and folded a few aluminum bikes. All at the head tube, downtube and top tube. I've never owned a carbon or Ti frame so I can't speak on durability over a long period for those materials
If I had to pick from aluminum, carbon and steel. I would pick aluminum all day. It’s the best compromise between the two. Much Lighter and better designs then steel frames, ( steel bikes mostly look like 90s bikes) and more robust and durable compare to Carbon bikes. Aluminum hands down💯
If I could have afforded a custom steel hardtail, I definitely would have bought one. I still love the feel of steel. That being said, I'm loving every ride on my Aluminum Roscoe. For the price, it's hard to beat Aluminum
Seen lots of really old Ti bike with cracks. Pretty sure the reason is they were made with 6/4 and or did not drill vent holes before welding tubes. The harder the metal the more prone to cracking. Most modern Ti manufacturers have refined the process to have less concern about total weight over durability. 1990s weight was everything. I owned some real expensive weak bike parts that came on a Gary Fisher pro ltd. Replaced them for stronger stuff right away.
I would love to see a show dedicated to Titanium and the builders that create these masterpieces. It would be interesting to see how their processes vary from other materials and where the expense comes from. I love how GMBN Tech Show explores these kinds of subjects. Well done Anna & Neil for another wonderful show. Cheers - M
Thanks for the display of my bike cave...😉👍 ps, Turner bikes still exist they are only making Ti MTB and gravel frames. I had a Turner 5 spot absolutely loved it.
I completly agreed with the comments on Steel. I have riden an aluminium hardtail back in the day but never managed to really like since than it has alway been steel. In September I will gift myself a Titanium 8bar Mitte V3 and am enormously exited about it.
If you're a full grown dedicated rider who's ever had bike fit/sizing issues, a custom frame in steel or ti is worth every penny. Get a basic hardtail with moderate geometry and let the bike evolve along as you do; 30 speed, 1x12 speed, SS, Gravel.....😊
Thanks for the video! Props to showing the perspective for bike builders!
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Im an alloy person. Both my bikes are aluminum. Picked up my Stumpjumper Evo Alloy frame with Fox Float X shock for $1315 shipped. Full build under $5k. Titanium would be ultimate dream build.
Makes me feel so old. When you knew someone in the mountain bike world when they were a kid and see them now with grey flecks in their hair. Brilliant to see him.
Taking CheeseGrips to it's natural evolution, I have a CheeseFrame. The big problem is that when I'm particularly hungry I'm heading home on a unicycle.
😂😂
Its
No apostrophe with possession
@@YouFearMe Thanks! Autocorrect really ruining the legibility for everyone there.
HG is Hyperglide. The new GRX has Micro Spline hub drivers. Happy with aluminium - modern geo and components often compliment the frame stiffness.
Agree with Neil. Got a massive soft spot for titanium and lucky enough to own the superb Stanton Sherpa Ti. Great bike, great brand. Deserves more publicity.
My Vitus Sommet 2020 model has carbon from end and steel back! And I got to day what a bike! So playful and agile. It can take any jumps or drops 🤘
Yes Turner Bikes are still in business. They have a new hardtail coming soon called the Scrub. It's a titanium hardtail running 160mm fork, 64.5 degree head angle, 76 degree seat angle, 435mm chainstays and comes in 2 sizes with 440mm and 465mm reach.
Hey Neil! One of the beauties of ti is that you weld on whatever modern bangles you need- fit that Xizhang with some caliper mounts!🙂
Steel! I just bought a steel full suspension bike and I love it for the ride quality and hope that I dont have to buy another bike for a loong time!
It is also a single pivot no linkage design so there is less bearings to change just two on each side in the main pivot.
I rode a steel hardtail but now I changed the frame to an aluminum frame and its very stiff, but its fun to crank on the pedals!
Steel is definitely real. Best for vibration damping, durability and repairability!
There's so much about steel that just speaks to me. I like the looks, I like how it feels when I touch the frame, I like how it feels while riding and I like what it does to my riding style - and that means different things for several kinds of bikes. All my bikes have steel frames and I'm convinced that I'll never go back to aluminium. I'd like to try a titanium frame some day, carbon on the other hand is out of question for me because I'd like my stuff to be long lasting and repairable. That all being said, I'm not a racer.
I always loved steel bikes and even went down the custom route in the late 90s, but then I bought a top of the range Aluminium Giant about twenty years ago and that beast of a bike is still going strong, while weighing almost nothing! My XtC Team edition frame is compliant on fast descents, but stiff on climbs, plus super light while still being strong. I have no clue how they did it, but this frame is fabulous and I love it.
On another note, how many times did Anna have to tell Neil how to pronounce Xizang before he listened? 🙄
I have a custom 853 steel frame made by Marino in Peru for $650. Took 8 months to build but well worth it.
Aluminum might be slightly less heavy, but the terrible ride quality makes it unenjoyable.
So steel is the only material worth using.
You guys make a lot of good content and this one is something I have an opinion about. I have been riding since most bikes were steel. I agree with Cy. Steel is a bike you push into a corner and feel the rebound. It has a personality. When I was racing a lot, (late 80s early 90s) the two big bikes in my social circles were the Ritchey P22 Vs. the Klein Attitude. But back then, Alu bikes were like riding a brick with wheels. I have never had an Alu Bik. Now all my bikes are carbon. Crazy how times have changed. I also agree with Rich, Titanium is something to dream about. If I could buy a bike to have on the wall, it would be steel. I ride Carbon, but I don’t get attached to my bikes anymore.
Even steel can be done harsh though. One of my first mountain bikes was a Marin Eldridge in 1990. First generation oversized steel tubes. Rode like a jackhammer!
I think it's interesting carbon has become so popular due to it's stiffness but it has been over built and now steel bikes are less weight. I have a 2020 Patrol Carbon on coil and it weighs 5 pounds more than a REEB SST! As well as was said less weight doesn't always mean a better bike. I'm concerned for the life of carbon over steel, aluminum and titanium. I really want a Ti gravel bike, I feel I would buy a full suspension Ti bike if the right geometry for me.
Still love my original 853 Cotic Soul 26" its such a great ride, so nimble and it shouts 'fun'. Also a Ti Lynskey 29er is very fine! My Alu Kinesis Tripster I find uncomfortable on the hands a bit like an older Vitus road bike I used to own. Luckily I also have a stainless Cinelli road bike which is a dream. If I had the dosh I would go for an 853 Cotic Cascade. Nice show btw!
Always had Aluminium, but would love to one day have a Ti hardtail.
Titanium....
Is overpriced
If you gave any specific questions, particularly about steel, drop a comment and I'll try my best to answer it. Thanks for having me @gmbntech
It's a bit generic.. but.. is they something to do with the properties of titanium as to why we don't see full suspension titanium frames much or is it purely the cost of material?
Have you worked with 953? Any tips?
@@floydblandston108No bike company uses 953. It's a rare steel and very expensive.
@@YouFearMe - if I'd wanted the opinion of any random dumazz, I wouldn't have asked Cy....but thanks.😂
@@floydblandston108 Ok dumazz. look it up yourself and then cry about it
I absolutely love my mk 1 Cotic Solaris. The one problem that I have found with a steel bike is that in adventure racing it can mess with your compass!
I have an aluminium Whyte hardtail and a Carbon SC Tallboy V3 (b4 they went lardy). Tallboy is lighter and both make me smile in different ways. Started on steel and it was good but old 90s geo. Would love to try a modern Ti HT although they are pricey to buy. Modern Alu is so well engineered it would be hard to find better value from any other material
I am hopelessly addicted to titanium. My frame is Ti, bars are Ti, cranks and chainring are Ti, hardware is Ti....hell even my chain rollers are Ti. If a brand was able to manufacture Ti rims I would absolutely try them without hesitation.
Turner bikes still exist, they make some nice titanium MTB and road bikes. But a lot different from their previous lineup of Burner and RFX's.
I have a Steel RSD bike rides like a dream.
I personally prefer aluminium frames. I rode a darben frame once and i have to say it felt to stiff for me and i honestly don‘t cara about weight. I guess this is only personal preference but i love it
I have an aluminum 2022 Santa Cruz Chameleon, decked out with my favorite parts. Its Aluminum and 100% PREMIUM. Its my favorite all time bike. Can do 29, MX wheel, and single speed in one bike by changing dropouts. Premium for sure.
Love steel, steal is real, and now that we have found that weight in the front triangle is actually a good thing, so why not 😀
I am with alu, since I admittedly change bikes every 3-5 years (10-15k miles). I want something with more up-to-date advancements, but not too expensive. Something mid-range, like Deore-level, that doesn't go too hard on shaving weight, but still has as much functionality as possible. Right now, my main ride is a Kona Remote 160 emtb.
Not sure how steel can be adapted for emtbs. Those moto "trellis" frames look really cool. I can maybe see [dual] cradle frames in the future, if battery tech offers such an opportunity.
I have 2 older Kona bikes with aluminum frames, a CX and a XC. I love them both and won't be changing anytime soon. The welds on the aluminum have been smoothed out to where the frame joints flow like carbon bikes, not the welds I'm seeing on new bikes. My real question is, I have noticed a lot of broken chains in bike racing these days. Are these new 12 speed setups and thinner chains going to be possibly more of a problem for serious riders?
Love my Cotic Jeht!
My Ti dream bike didn’t work out well. Many wise people said “Don’t get a FS Ti bike.” I didn’t listen. I broke the frame 3 times and gave up on Ti. Maybe I’ll try a hardtail, but not anytime soon…
Not married, no kids and mortgage free = Disposable income.....I went with carbon 😀 😀
You must have small legs
Steel for durability. Hands down the best material that will out last all other materials. Theres a reason why most things in the world are made of steel. Also look at BMX bikes most are steel because it can take a beating.
I'm a custom frame builder and ive built frames using ALL the bike materials, including carbon and Titanium.
Don't feel bad, not everyone has the skills to master ti construction.😁
@@floydblandston108, i totally agree. I have built Ti Frames too.
Alloy for me . I started on steel but when alloy came popular i moved over and loved it. Still hav ena.steel hard tail for when the mood takes me
I like all of them, but really depends on your budget. Carbon and titanium are awesome but expensive. Aluminum is more wallet friendly and still gets you everything you need. Steel is Great too but heavier
Well, to each his own. But for me, steel all the way! Easier, more affordable to repair if it gets damaged. Plus, there's something about the smell of the steel :D
Aluminum for me all the time. That’s why I love my Commencal Meta so much.
I cant say i hate any material. But i absolutly love the look of a thin tubed steal bike. The more modern fatter tube look isnt as appealing to me. I have a Ritchey P29 cromo. And i also have a Carbon On-One Whippet. I can honestly say my ritchey is an amazingly complient ride while still having the performance needed for my style of riding. The whippet is much stiffer of a ride quality. I like both of them.
The problem with thin tubed steel frames is they typically lack stiffness.
A hydroformed Aluminium frame has more voluminous tubes and offers more stiffness, which is a good thing at higher speed.
My bike is aluminium hard tail . It’s a great bike and I have a lot of fun on it.
Going forward I would go aluminium again. It’s a great all round material.
However if money was no object. I’d go for Titanium. It’s such a light strong material that just looks awesome.
Titanium has the same strength to weight ratio as 853 Reynolds steel.
Brought a steel HT after reading all the hype online and tbh I can't tell the difference, loads of variables so who knows but my experience. Carbon just worries me it cracking. As an average rider not chasing times or lightness or bragging rights down the pub material doesn't really matter
My bike is made of flat black. It has flat black stickers, flat black reflectors, flat black light, etc. etc. etc
I ride aluminum simply for the value aspect. I ride strictly for the decent so weight doesn't really matter to me. I would like to try Steel and Ti, though.
Back in the 90s there was a concept bike in one of the magazines and im struggling to find even an image of it online. It was called "Diamonback Zombie". Anyone knows about it? I just want to have an image of it...
Never ridden Titanium, but love the idea of it. I'm an alloy guy, not a fan of carbon
I have a custom Marino hardtail from Peru. And it's the best looking bike in my city. And steel does feel way better than aluminum, worlds better.
853 can be made to be really strong but extremely light. 1980s pro road race bikes.
I have been lucky enough to ride all but ti each has there merits loved my fully rigid 95 Kona cindercone loved my carbon 92 giant CFM3 and love my aluminum Schwinn s40 2013 rocky mountain fusion and my 2022 Marin riftzone. I would love to try a steel full suspension
If you can make a bike out of it, it's great. Steel is underrated maybe these days. For balance of ride quality, weight and durability it's got to be titanium. There's an idea that it's the most expensive, really you can get a good TI bike for the price of a mid range carbon bike, bit of a myth the boutique material thing. Ahem.. got three TI bikes. I earned them but they are worth it. One was £3000 one £4000 one was £1600.....yes £1600 new, a Sabbath Silk Route and that's in standard carbon or aluminium price range..
I am lucky enough to have a ti bike a aluminium bike and a carbon. The most interesting experience and one I love to be on the most is the ti bike because it's just a special material and I know it will last for ever
Mega Seagull.... That's what he was going for! 🤣 📣❄🦅!
Would love to own an 853 steel hairtail and a Titanium hardtail. A GT Xizang or a Merlin would be a dream.
Titanium is the same as 853 Reynolds
@@YouFearMe - spoken like someone who doesn't have a ti bike.
@@floydblandston108 Ti is the same thing mor
On
@@YouFearMe- No, objectively it is not. Reynolds 853 is a *steel* alloy, 'ti' refers to alloys of titanium- they are two completely different things.
@@floydblandston108 Same when it comes to strength to weight ratio.
Cry more
I Ride a CF Warden Daily 😎 I like the Resonates of CF .
interesting!
Still riding my 2001 Airborne Lucky Strike Titanium hardtail
All my bike are Aluminium. Titanium models are to expensive, Carbon although this is also expensive I also worry about damage that could be done over tightening (I know I can use a torque wrench but it still makes me nervous with Carbon) and Steel puts me off because of the weight as I don’t won’t to be carrying that extra weight on a cross country ride.
Modern steel bikes weight pretty much the same as their aluminium counterparts though.
I personally will probably always ride an aluminum bike. Carbon is amazing but I don’t make enough money to not worry about cracking the frame if it hits a rock.
I would always have an ally bike. With hydroformed tubes you can have to nice frame shape’s anyway and not have to have that niggling in the back of your mind about the carbon. Do love the look of steel bikes though
Full suspension MTB made out of carbon make me laugh - the compliance of carbon is totally lost with suspension and ever increasing tire size. Weight difference may not even exist with modern aluminum tech. There is often this misconception that progress on metal frames (aluminum, steel, titanium) stopped when carbon came out which simply isn't true.
Aluminium is reserved for as a budget material!? WHAT!
all my experience is with aluminum bikes, so I can't comment on what is better. But I know I'd rather have two good aluminum bikes than one carbon bike with so-so components. plus, I don't think most of us average riders will notice huge difference between materials. unless we rider back to back exact the same models from different materials, with identical suspension set ups and tire setups (pressure etc).
Which is best against frame failure/breaks
Steel
carbon #1 aluminium #2 Ti #3 steel #4
Aluminium as it flexes work hardens / stiffens & gets brittle & then cracks. Snapped several aluminium frames but never broken a carbon frame. Commencal had issues with their frames cracking. Re; environment / carbon, I don't have kids so I've already saved literally thousands of Tones of CO2 by not breeding so I don't worry about that.
All my latest bikes are aluminum, I've had my share of warranty claims, say what you want carbon is a great material but not easy to execute.
Aluminum all day! Best compromise between the two materials! Lighter and better looking then steel bikes and more robust and durable then carbon. Aluminum all day!!
"keep it real on steel" was from when road bike start coming out with aluminum frames (many years age) and all the old roadie would tell the newbies that steel was springer and lasted for ever, reynolds 531 for ever
Steel for hardtails, alu for everything else!
My first bike had the stainless steel frame. Sadly it got stolen 3 months later. I was 10 years young😢
Sorry to hear that, were you able to replace it and get back to riding?
Oh no not this question AGAIN!!!
Old enough to have grown up riding steel bikes, wouldn’t have one now. I always choose aluminum for my mountain bikes. As a youngster always dreamed of a titanium bike but probably don’t see the value in them as much now. I abuse my mountain bikes too much and probably keep them too long to chose carbon. If I raced I would see the worth in carbon. But as is I’d rather have a cheaper burly aluminum frame with top notch components than a carbon frame and crap components for a similar price. I have carbon road and gravel bikes.
As a fabricator/welder I trust alloy. Carbon is lame, save it for the road bikes. Commencal > Everyone else.
Steel ❤
The minimum of alu I love
Look up "specific modulus". All the metals are equally stiff per gram.
Some will make the tube more or less hollow at a given stiffness but it will weigh the same.
Very very small differences between them due to alloying and construction.
Beware of anyone saying they can "feel" the difference between any two things. Most people cant feel the difference between things because of huge human biases and inconsistencies of testing.
"Feel" is for unscientific biased analysis.
Specs and stats are the truth unless you want to live in your own delusions.
Wikipedia "specific modulus" for a true comparison between the metals.
Specific modulus is almost nothing to do with it though. The drive factor in feel between frame materials in bikes in the youngs modulus combined with the second moment of area.
I love your videos.
Thank you!
Steel and aluminium for me. Carbon is only for minor things like spacers..
Don't really trust carbon for anything other than that.
Plus CF is not good on environment.
I miss Doddy already 😢
I still don’t know what happened to him
@mtbkazozeki2223 he's gone to work for a bike brand I think
I’d never get a carbon bike they just don’t last! I’m just going to wait about 10 years until they make bikes of mythril it’s sure to be cheaper!
aluminium for gravel
Magnesium .
Does anyone make full magnesium bikes? 🤷♂️
@@JoeJoe-C137 - alloy only. Mag is flammable.
@@floydblandston108 magnesium is used loads pal, just not sure if anyone has a made full frame in magnesium
The environmental argument is so lame to me. The market for these bikes is very small. There are SIGNIFICANTLY bigger enviornmental fish to fry before worrying about the material used for the frame of your bicycle. Carbon fiber has plenty of arguments against it. It saves little weight, is way more expensive, anecdotally doesn't look as good (depends), stiffness, vulnerability to certain impacts, etc.
Titanium you will have a bike for life. I work in the metal industry titanium is king
Where’s doddy?
Who’s going to tell him
Definitely not carbon ever!!! Metal all the way!
Carbon full sus, steel hard tail
Living the dream there bro!
F...k carbon. That shit can not be recycled.
then you better stop riding MTB because you go through WAAAAAAAY more tyres than frames... and guess how many MTB tyres get recycled....
I'm going to make a frame out of baby seals with kittens for tyres.. Both are recyclable so I can't see any issues... (And I'll get 9 times the use out of the tyres)
@@TheButlerNZSchwalbe has a tire recycling program now for all tire brands
@@simonm1447 maybe not in New Zealand... Maybe not other brands... and maybe not into a Maxxis DHF equivalent... But heres hoping.
I'm still going for the kittens... Their claws will have amazing grip.
@@TheButlerNZ it seems they already do it in Australia, I don't know if this is also the case in NZ
So carbon frames emit carbon, what about the mining, smelting and producing steel, aluminum and titanium. Unreal