Seeing all your knowledge and efforts , with all the questions we all have, just want to say, thanks Mason for your patience and feedback! You deserve to be respected and I think all the requests and inquiries are proof that you are one of the best in the music industry hands down! Thanks!
No nonsense, no gratuitous self promotion, no over explanation, straight to practical info, ends with practical summary an review. Excellent video. One question though; on bass if I want a Chris squire late 70s envelope filter effect, does that go beside or after compressor?
Dude, all this time I was putting my low gain drives before the high, and couldn't figure out why all that volume reduction and tone suck was taking place. You solved it!
Thanks for making this so clear, well-organized, and flexible! I think you hit the right balance between offering concrete suggestions but avoiding being too rigid and prescriptive. I also really appreciate that you explained the reasoning behind these rules of thumb without getting too caught in the weeds or irrelevant digressions. Can be hard to achieve this, but very nice work.
I just tried this method with my pedalboard which I haven't changed in the past 2 years. Wow! The sound is so much cleaner and bright, and the fuzz first sounds incredible! I had to drop everything and comment on this. Thank you! 😁
@@VertexEffectsInc just a quick question Mason. i have a polytune 3 , which is a buffered tuner which one will go first on my chain. the dunlop cry baby or the polytune3??? thanks!
Brother, I gotta say! This is the most thorough, thought out, easy to understand board video I have ever seen. New subscriber here! Hoping to find this kind of approach to other confusing associated topics. Thanks Keep'em coming!
This is what I needed EXACTLY! You not only get the order but the WHY behind it and other important valuable information that I didn't know that I needed to know. 🤜🤛
This video is toxic garbage. There are no set rules on where to put your pedals. Every piece of gear should be placed in your signal chain and used how it sounds best to your own ears.
I can't believe the difference of putting the lower output overdrive pedal after the higher output overdrive pedal!! Simply amazing. Both pedals now have a new life to them, with better sound and more fullness. Thnx
Your absolutely the best in teaching and advising as to how to builds your pedal board, I've been researching and researching and this video tells me what I needed to know from someone with experience. Much appreciated.
I set my peddle board up totally backwards from this video, but it sounds great! My setup order: Tunner Compressor Distortion Chorus Delay Harmonizer Equalizer Looper 🤘🎸
I've always put my distortion and overdrive pedals from lowest to highest gain (and have recommended it to hundreds [if not thousands] of customers in the decade that I worked at a guitar shop.) After watching this video I gave higher gain first a try (in this case a Rat going into a TS9.) It sounded like garbage. And not because I was used to the sound of the TS9 going into the Rat, but because everything got muffled and flabby. I put it back to the way I had it (TS9 into Rat) and got that crisp & articulate sound back. I will still always recommend to other guitarists that lower gain overdrives should go before their higher gain distortions.
A few considerations. 1) This is not "THE WORD" - it's one way to do it and that is stated in the video as a possible way to sequence effects and not the only way. All of this is really a matter of taste. 2) You and I may not hear things the same. Just like I may be just fine with Sushi from a gas station, where your lowest acceptable bar for Sushi is Cafe Nobu. Since we're not calibrated, what you prefer and what I prefer aren't normed. 3) Settings matter. If you're using your RAT or high gain pedal in a lower gain setting that's not very compatible with stacking, you might have mixed results. I generally encourage the gain stacking to be based on how you set the pedal in terms of gain, and not by the overall amount of gain inside the pedal. Also complementary EQs are a consideration when stacking that will sometimes nullify any of my advice on a case by case basis. I'm sure you can find unflattering settings of high gain into low gain just as you can find them low gain into high gain pedal orders. 4) Impedances matter. There will be combinations even within following the order I outlined that won't work because some of the effects might be sub optimal with a higher output Z driving them, or a buffer (low z) driving into the input of any particular device. Since there is NO standard for pedal impedances, you might find some pedals aren't good candidates for stacking in certain orders as a result. To reiterate...this is all subjective, as stated in the video - not the truth. Simply one way to do it that you can improvise with as you please.
Just a quick THANK YOU! for your advice on pedal order, and for all the questions I've had concerning pedals. I've been playing for 32 years and this is the first time I've put a board together....I know, sad story, right? Haha! I'm a singer, and have always just played acoustic or used the amp's effects. Thanks again brother, much appreciated!
HI MASON - EDDIE IN THE UK HERE - THANKS FOR A SUPERB EXPLANATION IN YOUR VIDEO - I NEVER REALISED HOW MANY DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS THERE WERE ! I WILL NOW FOLLOW YOUR ADVICE SO THANKS AGAIN ! BEST REGARDS - EDDIE.
Hey Mason - Perhaps you can talk about putting the whole effect chain before an amp vs putting it in the effects loops of the amplifier vs putting just the modulation and time effects in effects loop, and how the tone is affected in these three cases.
This really is the best video on pedal chain order that's available on UA-cam. I refer to every time I build or reorganize my pedal boards. Thank you for the help!!
Wow - thank you. First time viewer of your channel and I subscribed immediately. Excellent information and you articulate it very well. I am going to have to find out what ‘buffers’ are. Played live for years but never heard of them. Not much of a gear head or guitarist..mainly used it for rhythm.
Man! Articulate, thorough, well explained. This has it all. I've had my two main boards set up like this for years as it does indeed follow conventional pedalboard wisdom, but it does seem like I'm endlessly experimenting with specific fuzz placement albeit up in front part of the chain regardless. Beautifully done my man!
Another EXCELLENT explanation of not just how but the why! I have seen many videos on this topic over the years and this is the most complete and logical one I've seen. I am very much of the "if it sounds good, it is good" school BUT I will most definitely play with these concepts more and at the very least will have fun doing it! Thanks man for sharing these videos, you truly are putting out some really valuable content and I have learned a ton from just the dozen or so videos I've watched thus far.
I have a quick question concerning a noise gate. Should I still place The noise gate directly after the distortion effects? I think that's one of the most important things you left out of this. I thank you for your time.
I recently have discovered Juan R and he has been another one of U tubes greatest hidden gems. Juan has been extremely helpful in trying to help me set up my Katana Mkii amp and people like Juan R and Vertex Effects are invaluable resources for not just newbies like me but to Everyone in the music community. Thanks to both of you outstanding human beings.
Man, as a fairly new guitar player that is ready to start messing with pedals, this is easily the best video I have watched on the basic set up of how to hook everything up. Obviously there are probably different ways and other opinions on how to set a pedal board up. But this is more then enough to get you started. And it’s explained so well by yourself and with the use of graphics. Thank you big time! If you ever see this even. LOL. I subbed after 5 minutes of the video!
I went to a Robin Trower show many years back at a smaller venue {I sat maybe thirty feet from him}, and after the show he was kind enough to allow me to take a picture of his board. I was surprised at how small it was. The amp he was using was on old 1959, NOT a reissue either. I sat my board up identically to his, but I still don't sound nearly as good as he does.
@@VertexEffectsInc Sorry I didn’t have my glasses on. I meant a drop tuning pedal. I thought about it and it would probably go in the modulation section as it is also a pitch shifting pedal?
That's depends on the "preamp" and what you are using it for. What is your set up? Most preamp pedals are best using a power amp since they are mimicing a the preamp and EQ of a amp. If you are using a preamp in a clean amp that is great now you amp becomes a master EQ and is dependent on the diameters of said amp! But it's understanding what the preamp is for. Say you bought a preamp pedal to mimic a mesa boogie dirty channel, that is now a DISTORTION pedal. If you are using a clean amp everything is is based on the headroom of that amp!
Thank you. Im building a pedalboard (always have done all through the Boss Gt6 multi) and between you, jhs and the blokes at that pedal show, i am now convinced buffers are my next purchases in this chain of wonder.
Boss pedals usually have a buffer built in to them, right? So would a separate buffer really be necessary if you have a Boss pedal at the beginning and end of the chain instead?
Holy cow! I decided to reorder my pedals based on this video, as well as learning that my Spark Mini could do double duty as a buffer. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY! No more hum/buzz/noise. So clean now! Wish I'd found this video ages ago, thank you.
After all these years I found the perfect explanation ever about this subject. Have you made the video using a FX Loop? Man, it’s not a simple puzzle, specially when you include a huge switcher.
Great video. Speaking of “not hard fast rules”, I have Boost=>OD=>Fuzz as stacked pedals where the boost is slightly added high and level and the Fuzz is barely on but roars when the other pedals push it. I go into a Boss TU-3 first (which has a buffer) before everything else. I’ll have to try to move my Wah to the front and also tinker with my fuzz as “pre-buffer” to see how it goes. Thanks again.
If your tuner has a buffered circuit, you have to put it after Impedence Sensitive pedals. If your tuner is true bypass, you can add it first in the chain, closest to the guitar.
Anyone just stumbling across this should be warned… You’ve reached the pot of gold. Go no further, this is the man. Any questions you ever have on anything, start and end with this dude (Sorry, I mean no disrespect “Mr. Doctor”).
My friend you made a believer out of me. My chain WAS: guitar -> 10 ft cable -> Mesa Stowaway buffer -> 5 pedals -> 6 ft cable -> amp All pedals and cables high quality. Well I just added a second stowaway at the end and what a difference! It’s like the guitar instantly because easier to play and more touch sensitive.
I have a DD-200 delay before a Flint (which has verb), followed by a timeline and then a big sky, for precisely that reason - to give me more options. And even if I had a switcher, I'd still have both delays, because the DD-200 gives me up to 5 seconds of delay, and I use that in a song, and the Timeline won't do it but does so much other great stuff. By the same reasoning, the Flint is a crazy good sounding pedal! But in terms of reverb, there are SO MANY cool things you can do with the big sky as well.
@@VertexEffectsInc I dig running a plate style verb with a long tail and a super low dark mix into a delay… then out of the delay into a Fender blackface style spring reverb…. Yummmmmm Tremelo at the end… again for that blackface Fender thing…. Can you tell that a twin reverb and deluxe reverb were my main amps back in the day LOL? I love doing that with my JTM 45 too…
I would put the tuner pedal going very first into the guitar input before the Impedance Sensitive Devices (ISD). (IE: Tuner, ISD, Input Buffer, Dynamic, etc.)
Hey Mason, thanks for sharing your pedalboard knowledge and expertise, it is very much appreciated by all. You have answered so many of my questions and I didn’t even need to ask them. Thanks!
Great video, I’ve already sent this to a few of my friends who always ask my opinion on their signal path. I myself have been using a Timmy into a rat, and was feeling something was off whenever I play at full volume, reversed their order after watching this and going to try in the rehearsals this week. I like to use tremolo at the end of my chain, love the way it chops up the whole thing. Also I saw it somewhere that in vintage amps that came with tremolo and reverb, they put tremolo after the reverb.
This is essential knowledge, it's also to be completely disregarded outside of figuring out why your sound is bad in a certain area or maybe you just have one pedal out of place and you can refer to something like this and see if your set up makes sense. But I find sounds all the time that don't follow this rubric, especially mixing pedal brands, it all goes out the window
Personally, I would like my looper before any effects, so I have a clean dry loop, and I can run that through different effects without it being permanently wet
Looper are special! You can put them any where depending on the situations. Are you recording riffs and want to try out different pedal combos? But then after the buffer. Are you trying to do something ambient that is stereo put them before the time pedals. Are you on the street making sound affects? Put it at the end (end being before the power amp or in the end FX loop of amp.) You can put a looper anywhere! It's a no rules pedal because it just records and replays.
I think it would go where the 1st Buffer is basically. Some tuners are also Buffers. Fuzz pedals with 1, 2, or 3 circuits don’t like Buffers and can sound “off”.
Noise gate should go early in the chain so that it is gating based on your cleanest input signal to best differentiate between what is your instrument input and what is noise. Then you use the noise gate's send/receive loop for any pedals you want to remove noise from (OD/Distortion). Be aware if your noise suppression pedal has a built-in buffer for the impedance sensitive pedals. Then afterwards would be delay/reverb, things with trails that shouldn't get cut by the gate, and the rest of the chain.
As a beginner, this is a fantastic HOW TO which deserves to be seen by anyone just starting to play around with effects. Great advice... Great ideas... And a great MAP which logically organizes the signal path. My question concerns NOISE GATES : where in the chain do such devices typically go...? 🤔
@@VertexEffectsInc It seems as if my crunch distortion is the SOURCE of the noise: the more volume or gain I dial in, the greater the noise. But its so hard to really tell because I also have a stacked vintage overdrive and the volume on both my amp & guitar are somewhat high. Playing around with any of those seems to affect the buzz/hum/whistle coming from my amp. Needless to say, I'm confused.
Those work too. I have my Boss TU-3 first in my chain for that exact reason. I don’t have an out buffer, but I only have a 10 foot cable from the last pedal to the amp.
Rig Doc covers this in a separate video. Generally, you want the 1Meg/100ohm specs for a buffer, but some pedals do not have those ratings because the pedal is designed to function a certain way but may impact overall signal integrity. There is no 'standard' for these values, so you find variance.
@@RobBusinger neat. Thanks for the further insight. How can I find out what different pedals are so I can compare between ones I have and wether or not I need to look into a dedicated buffer?
@@steelman774 I think he mentions some examples in his video. Many builders include in their specs, too. I've probably found it for 75% of mine. If you trial it by including the pedal and then removing it from the chain (like disconnecting) you will be able to audibly observe, too.
@@amoshopson7923 yeah but if you tune with it at last it might change the pitch bc of the effects. En besides its not a signal mute its a tune. Im not mad btw.
If it's true bypass, anywhere early in the chain is fine. If it's buffered, then after your input buffer, or even better paralleled off the output of your input buffer so that the input is always fed on the tuner.
Great video. I took many notes and will try out some of the recommendations. However, what I was missing: there is nothing being said whether some pedals are usually put in front of an FX Loop of an Amp or after the preAmp of an Amp.
This is an excellent channelI I think this is an example of the order of pedals if you're not getting distortion from your amp. The order completely changes if you're using a hi gain amp. I use distortion and boost pedals to change the character of my amp's tone set at low to mid gain distortion .I use my eq's pre distortion to also change the character. All my time base effects go through either the effects loop of my amps or after a reactive load on the speaker output of my amps. I think that's the best way to use time base effects because they sound cleaner. The negative part about it is that you need to log around more gear.
George, agreed, we state that in the beginning that this is for a series pedalboard assuming you have all the pedals running into a clean amp. We have a few more of these coming for 4CM using a high gain amp, and Wet/Dry/Wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I’ve been playing guitar professionally for over 40 years and in my opinion using a reactive load, splitting the signal for dry and for the effects in parallel into a mixer then to a tube power amp is more ideal for me.You can crank your amp as loud as you want to reach the sweet spot. But I’m trying to make my live gear scalable depending on the gig. I’ve never used an effects loop on my amps before until recently. That’s why your channel has been very helpful! For small gigs I can’t log around so much gear! Looking forward for your next video!
Personally I would put it to the end, to capture the final & ready signal and loop it. As long as the sound is fit for your taste, there are no rights or wrongs :)
Great job man. I am a new guitar player and this is exactly what I needed to have a foundation to start from. Ignore the hater or haters on here as he or they clearly didn't watch or pay attention to your video. You clearly stated multiple times that there are no right or wrong ways and set is entirely up to the individual but this is your classical rendition for any end user to manipulate anyway they want. I cant even believe Will C's comment. Don't delete this as it serves a valuable purpose on a global social network. If someone got here they got here for the very reason of learning a good starting point for a way of setting up the signal path and you NEVER said it was the only way. Thanks for posting and I will be creating my board board soon. Please don't even lose sleep over Will's extremely out of line comment. People like him are what is going wrong with this world. Lets all work to help one another and not tear each other apart. Thanks
I bought a Univibe from Voodoo Labs years back, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get that Hendrix distorted Univibe sound ala Machine Gun. I thought about it, did some research and figured out that he had the Univibe going into a distorted amp, and apparently before his Fuzz Face. I switched it around and voila, there it was. Brilliant! You really have to experiment. It's like chorus or flanger before or after delay. I played around with that, and realized that delay *before* flange and chorus just sounds better to me. It's subtle, but I hear it. Rather than delay repeats with the sweep of the chorus/flange now being fixed or the same on every repeat, the repeats all hit a different point in the sweep of these pedals. It's sounds more dynamic to these ears. It all has to be played with. There really isn't right or wrong. Even these alleged standards mentioned in this video are not fixed. It depends on the person. I've seen people put pedals in sequences I would never dream of, but it works for them. Having seen that, one "boutique" pedal maker was telling people to put their compressor *after* the distortion/OD pedals. A lot of people began complaining of increased noise after doing this. Well, no wonder! People would put the compressor before the gain and the problem was gone, or improved. Just goes to show, you should *never* trust a so called authority, but rather, trust your own ears.
I have a basic pedal board with: guitar > overdrive > distortion > noise gate > chorus/flanger > delay > amp I have a 5150 Stealth. When I run this pedal board into the front of the amp on the clean channel, it sounds super thin no matter how I dial the pedals and the amp. HELP! ANYONE!
I’m here because I’m building a board to my personal tone needs. This has been very helpful. I feel it is a little advanced for some but still super informative. Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc imma weirdo and put it last b/c i only have 4 pedals before it and i use it to mute the crazy twist effect i can do with the boss dd-20
Perfect example of signal preference. I've got a EH Soul Food running about half gain into an Earthquakers Plumes running about Half gain. The Plumes definitely has more gain than the Soul Food but to me it sounds better running these 2 pedals lower into higher. I've tried a couple times running them the other way but just doesn't sound right. I am going to try phaser before drive though, and boost right after drive. Thanks again! You're always looking out for us!
Hey Mason, thank you for all your shared information. I greatly appreciate all your many tips. Using your guidelines, I was able to successfully build my first pedalboard. One love.
If you read the specs about your pedals, some say true bypass, and some say buffered. If you use a buffered pedal, the buffer is built in and is active, even when that pedal in your chain is turned off, and no need to buy a separate buffer pedal. True bypass means that when you turn the pedal off, the rest of the signal chain does not even recognize that the pedal is there. Except, the extra length of cable to have the pedal does affect the tone minutely. I’ve read that it’s good to have a combination of buffered and true bypass filters in the chain. So far, every Boss Pedal I have seen is buffered.
Table of Contents:
00:00 Introduction
01:44 Buffers
02:40 Impedance-Sensitive Pedals
03:58 Dynamic Type Pedals
05:36 Distortion/Overdrive Pedals
07:37 EQ/Boost Pedals
09:16 Volume Pedals
11:22 Modulation Pedals
12:47 Time-Based Pedals
14:08 Signal Path Overview
17:00 Conclusion
What about a big muff? It’s not a fuzz pedal that responds to dynamics like a fuzz face. Would you put it where a rat should be?
@@moogsynth87 depends on the era. The silicon versions might be problematic with a buffer, the IC versions won't.
Where I can place a Noisegate (ISP Decimetor G String) in a chain?
@@Edgardo1978Music What are you trying to gate out? Pedal distortion or amp distortion?
@@VertexEffectsInc Distortion pedals
Best pedal order video ever made. Period.
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Dude, echoing that. I get so tired of pedal order videos that say “oh it HAS TO BE this way.” Or “no rules at all, don’t sweat it.”
@@Axiom_Link It's all matter of taste at the end of the day.
Fucking facts bro
What James F said!!!
Always blown away by this guys professionalism and how succinct/eloquent his videos are
That is one hell of a signal chain. I believe I counted about 20 pedals in the example. Excellent food for thought, thank you
trying to cover all the contingencies.
Seeing all your knowledge and efforts , with all the questions we all have, just want to say,
thanks Mason for your patience and feedback!
You deserve to be respected and I think all the requests and inquiries are proof that you are one of the best in the music industry hands down!
Thanks!
Wow. Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc would you put the compressor before or after the ep booster?
No nonsense, no gratuitous self promotion, no over explanation, straight to practical info, ends with practical summary an review. Excellent video.
One question though; on bass if I want a Chris squire late 70s envelope filter effect, does that go beside or after compressor?
Thanks for watching! I'd say filter then comp.
Dude, all this time I was putting my low gain drives before the high, and couldn't figure out why all that volume reduction and tone suck was taking place. You solved it!
Amazing!
Thanks for making this so clear, well-organized, and flexible! I think you hit the right balance between offering concrete suggestions but avoiding being too rigid and prescriptive. I also really appreciate that you explained the reasoning behind these rules of thumb without getting too caught in the weeds or irrelevant digressions. Can be hard to achieve this, but very nice work.
Glad it was helpful!
Such a helpful video, thank you! As a long time drummer now dabbling into cheap guitar pedals for the first time, this is much needed.
Same here! Drummer diving into guitar pedals
I just tried this method with my pedalboard which I haven't changed in the past 2 years.
Wow! The sound is so much cleaner and bright, and the fuzz first sounds incredible!
I had to drop everything and comment on this.
Thank you! 😁
Glad it helped!
This is the best explanation of signal path that i have ever heard!
Always trying to make us better and that is why I’m a fan 🙏
Thanks for the support Kevin!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc just a quick question Mason. i have a polytune 3 , which is a buffered tuner which one will go first on my chain. the dunlop cry baby or the polytune3??? thanks!
@@rowell3079 I would try it both ways, but generally buffer after wah.
Great video! I started with 10 questions before the video. Now I have 100 questions. Cant win. 😂
Brother, I gotta say! This is the most thorough, thought out, easy to understand board video I have ever seen. New subscriber here! Hoping to find this kind of approach to other confusing associated topics.
Thanks
Keep'em coming!
Glad it was helpful!
This is the best explanation of the reasoning and purpose for effects chains I have ever seen.
This is what I needed EXACTLY! You not only get the order but the WHY behind it and other important valuable information that I didn't know that I needed to know. 🤜🤛
Glad it was helpful!
Man this video should be an example of top notch youtube tutorials. You are amazing.
Appreciate that
This video is toxic garbage. There are no set rules on where to put your pedals. Every piece of gear should be placed in your signal chain and used how it sounds best to your own ears.
@@officialmetalwill The only toxic garbage here are your comments Will
You are a great communicator. I can tell that you love your job.
I do!
Mason, again, I cannot thank you enough for all the advice/recommendations. A true gent!
Happy to help!
I came specifically to find out where to place my Tube Screamer and you literally use it in your diagram. Perfect!
👍👍👍
I can't believe the difference of putting the lower output overdrive pedal after the higher output overdrive pedal!! Simply amazing. Both pedals now have a new life to them, with better sound and more fullness. Thnx
Glad you like it!
This guy makes the most helpful videos
Wow! Thanks!
This is like the basic text book version of pedal placement. Great place to start.
Your absolutely the best in teaching and advising as to how to builds your pedal board, I've been researching and researching and this video tells me what I needed to know from someone with experience. Much appreciated.
Wow, thanks!
I set my peddle board up totally backwards from this video, but it sounds great!
My setup order:
Tunner
Compressor
Distortion
Chorus
Delay
Harmonizer
Equalizer
Looper
🤘🎸
Such a great video! Love the explanation deep dive & illustration too!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Best explanation ever - way to go
Glad it was helpful!
I've always put my distortion and overdrive pedals from lowest to highest gain (and have recommended it to hundreds [if not thousands] of customers in the decade that I worked at a guitar shop.) After watching this video I gave higher gain first a try (in this case a Rat going into a TS9.)
It sounded like garbage. And not because I was used to the sound of the TS9 going into the Rat, but because everything got muffled and flabby.
I put it back to the way I had it (TS9 into Rat) and got that crisp & articulate sound back. I will still always recommend to other guitarists that lower gain overdrives should go before their higher gain distortions.
A few considerations. 1) This is not "THE WORD" - it's one way to do it and that is stated in the video as a possible way to sequence effects and not the only way. All of this is really a matter of taste. 2) You and I may not hear things the same. Just like I may be just fine with Sushi from a gas station, where your lowest acceptable bar for Sushi is Cafe Nobu. Since we're not calibrated, what you prefer and what I prefer aren't normed. 3) Settings matter. If you're using your RAT or high gain pedal in a lower gain setting that's not very compatible with stacking, you might have mixed results. I generally encourage the gain stacking to be based on how you set the pedal in terms of gain, and not by the overall amount of gain inside the pedal. Also complementary EQs are a consideration when stacking that will sometimes nullify any of my advice on a case by case basis. I'm sure you can find unflattering settings of high gain into low gain just as you can find them low gain into high gain pedal orders. 4) Impedances matter. There will be combinations even within following the order I outlined that won't work because some of the effects might be sub optimal with a higher output Z driving them, or a buffer (low z) driving into the input of any particular device. Since there is NO standard for pedal impedances, you might find some pedals aren't good candidates for stacking in certain orders as a result. To reiterate...this is all subjective, as stated in the video - not the truth. Simply one way to do it that you can improvise with as you please.
Just a quick THANK YOU! for your advice on pedal order, and for all the questions I've had concerning pedals. I've been playing for 32 years and this is the first time I've put a board together....I know, sad story, right? Haha! I'm a singer, and have always just played acoustic or used the amp's effects. Thanks again brother, much appreciated!
Glad to help!
HI MASON - EDDIE IN THE UK HERE - THANKS FOR A SUPERB EXPLANATION IN YOUR VIDEO - I NEVER REALISED HOW MANY DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS THERE WERE !
I WILL NOW FOLLOW YOUR ADVICE SO THANKS AGAIN ! BEST REGARDS - EDDIE.
Great! Thanks for watching!
Cheers man
Enjoyed this vid a lot and did a bit of reshuffle goodness on my board ✊🏾
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hey Mason - Perhaps you can talk about putting the whole effect chain before an amp vs putting it in the effects loops of the amplifier vs putting just the modulation and time effects in effects loop, and how the tone is affected in these three cases.
it's a little more advanced....perhaps for the future. My intent here was to capture the general majority of cases in front of an amp.
I second Nihal's comment, definitely a video I'll be waiting for!
me too. i like an overdriven amp, so i think the effects loop is important
@@kensayers144 Indeed if you're producing amp gain
Okay, another must watch
Glad you dig it!
This really is the best video on pedal chain order that's available on UA-cam. I refer to every time I build or reorganize my pedal boards. Thank you for the help!!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the support Robby!
Didn’t realize until today I wasn’t subscribed. Been watching for years. Thanks for the reminder.
Welcome! Thanks for checking!
Wow - thank you. First time viewer of your channel and I subscribed immediately. Excellent information and you articulate it very well. I am going to have to find out what ‘buffers’ are. Played live for years but never heard of them. Not much of a gear head or guitarist..mainly used it for rhythm.
Same.
Thank you Mason. Where would you place a noise gate in the signal chain?
Wondering the same thing
Man! Articulate, thorough, well explained. This has it all.
I've had my two main boards set up like this for years as it does indeed follow conventional pedalboard wisdom, but it does seem like I'm endlessly experimenting with specific fuzz placement albeit up in front part of the chain regardless.
Beautifully done my man!
Thank you so much!
Another EXCELLENT explanation of not just how but the why! I have seen many videos on this topic over the years and this is the most complete and logical one I've seen. I am very much of the "if it sounds good, it is good" school BUT I will most definitely play with these concepts more and at the very least will have fun doing it! Thanks man for sharing these videos, you truly are putting out some really valuable content and I have learned a ton from just the dozen or so videos I've watched thus far.
Glad it was helpful!
Could i use as the first buffer pedal one Boss Noise Suppressor pedal? And at the end of chain one Tc Electronic Bonafide buffer?
I have a quick question concerning a noise gate. Should I still place The noise gate directly after the distortion effects? I think that's one of the most important things you left out of this. I thank you for your time.
??? Noise gate
See our advanced signal paths video
I recently have discovered Juan R and he has been another one of U tubes greatest hidden gems. Juan has been extremely helpful in trying to help me set up my Katana Mkii amp and people like Juan R and Vertex Effects are invaluable resources for not just newbies like me but to Everyone in the music community. Thanks to both of you outstanding human beings.
Noise gate after the EQ
Great video! Where would you place a noise gate and a digitech whammy pedal? Thanks!
Watch our advanced signal path videos...we explain all this!
Omg. Moving the EQ to after the distortion pedals game changer. Also from the FX loop moving phase and flanger out of loop fixed those sounds. YES!
Man, as a fairly new guitar player that is ready to start messing with pedals, this is easily the best video I have watched on the basic set up of how to hook everything up. Obviously there are probably different ways and other opinions on how to set a pedal board up. But this is more then enough to get you started. And it’s explained so well by yourself and with the use of graphics.
Thank you big time! If you ever see this even. LOL. I subbed after 5 minutes of the video!
Wow! Thanks!!!
I went to a Robin Trower show many years back at a smaller venue {I sat maybe thirty feet from him}, and after the show he was kind enough to allow me to take a picture of his board. I was surprised at how small it was. The amp he was using was on old 1959, NOT a reissue either. I sat my board up identically to his, but I still don't sound nearly as good as he does.
Robin ROCKS!!!
RT was great. The first time I heard him, 'bout fell out of my chair ☺️
Alas, that was many years ago,
sadly they don't make 'em like that anymore ☹️
Hi there I was wondering where you would recommend placing a drop tube pedal in the chain order. Thanks.
For what? What is it doing?
@@VertexEffectsInc Sorry I didn’t have my glasses on. I meant a drop tuning pedal. I thought about it and it would probably go in the modulation section as it is also a pitch shifting pedal?
Where would you put a preamp? Would you put after overdrive or at the start?
That's depends on the "preamp" and what you are using it for.
What is your set up?
Most preamp pedals are best using a power amp since they are mimicing a the preamp and EQ of a amp. If you are using a preamp in a clean amp that is great now you amp becomes a master EQ and is dependent on the diameters of said amp!
But it's understanding what the preamp is for.
Say you bought a preamp pedal to mimic a mesa boogie dirty channel, that is now a DISTORTION pedal.
If you are using a clean amp everything is is based on the headroom of that amp!
This is such critically important information and meticulously presented in a very digestible way. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. Im building a pedalboard (always have done all through the Boss Gt6 multi) and between you, jhs and the blokes at that pedal show, i am now convinced buffers are my next purchases in this chain of wonder.
Glad I could help! Make sure you get those with the right specs. See our recommended buffers for the best possible options.
Boss pedals usually have a buffer built in to them, right? So would a separate buffer really be necessary if you have a Boss pedal at the beginning and end of the chain instead?
Stupid Question, where do you put a tuner? First from the Guitar?
It's a good question. They should have included it. Yes, first from the guitar.
first or last..most have buffers in them
Are buffers included in some pedals circuits? If so what’s the effect of lots of buffers?
Holy cow! I decided to reorder my pedals based on this video, as well as learning that my Spark Mini could do double duty as a buffer. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY! No more hum/buzz/noise. So clean now! Wish I'd found this video ages ago, thank you.
After all these years I found the perfect explanation ever about this subject. Have you made the video using a FX Loop? Man, it’s not a simple puzzle, specially when you include a huge switcher.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for all the support as always!
Where would you put a preamp pedal with cab sim and distortion in this path ?
Put it last. Since you're not going into an amp, but rather intobyour Preamp, assuming you are using the Cab Sim last. Then out of that to FOH.
One thing that is never discussed it the way to adjust gains on pedals so it doesn’t mess up with the channel gain when playing straight in the mixer.
First person that was specific, very specific, considering Germainium treble boosters.. thank you very much
Great video. Speaking of “not hard fast rules”, I have Boost=>OD=>Fuzz as stacked pedals where the boost is slightly added high and level and the Fuzz is barely on but roars when the other pedals push it. I go into a Boss TU-3 first (which has a buffer) before everything else. I’ll have to try to move my Wah to the front and also tinker with my fuzz as “pre-buffer” to see how it goes.
Thanks again.
Where do you put the tuner
I'm assuming pretty early considering you would probably want the tuner as accurate as possible
Tuner almost always comes first
If your tuner has a buffered circuit, you have to put it after Impedence Sensitive pedals. If your tuner is true bypass, you can add it first in the chain, closest to the guitar.
Where would the looper pedal go in the signal path??
Anyone just stumbling across this should be warned… You’ve reached the pot of gold. Go no further, this is the man. Any questions you ever have on anything, start and end with this dude (Sorry, I mean no disrespect “Mr. Doctor”).
Thanks for watching Joe!
My friend you made a believer out of me. My chain WAS:
guitar -> 10 ft cable -> Mesa Stowaway buffer -> 5 pedals -> 6 ft cable -> amp
All pedals and cables high quality.
Well I just added a second stowaway at the end and what a difference! It’s like the guitar instantly because easier to play and more touch sensitive.
I would just get the HIgh Wire are it's two in one.
@@VertexEffectsInc I already have 2 X stowaway buffers.
If you are not sure about the order between delay and reverb, then just buy two for each and order them as DRDR
Or try both or get a switcher that can re-arrange your order :)
I have a DD-200 delay before a Flint (which has verb), followed by a timeline and then a big sky, for precisely that reason - to give me more options. And even if I had a switcher, I'd still have both delays, because the DD-200 gives me up to 5 seconds of delay, and I use that in a song, and the Timeline won't do it but does so much other great stuff. By the same reasoning, the Flint is a crazy good sounding pedal! But in terms of reverb, there are SO MANY cool things you can do with the big sky as well.
@@NoBSMusicReviews I use Specular Tempus -> Timeline -> Bigsky. Specular does both lol
@@VertexEffectsInc I dig running a plate style verb with a long tail and a super low dark mix into a delay… then out of the delay into a Fender blackface style spring reverb…. Yummmmmm
Tremelo at the end… again for that blackface Fender thing…. Can you tell that a twin reverb and deluxe reverb were my main amps back in the day LOL? I love doing that with my
JTM 45 too…
@@maz7100 Nice!
what if you go thur an effects loop
For the tuner pedal ?? Thanks
I would put the tuner pedal going very first into the guitar input before the Impedance Sensitive Devices (ISD).
(IE: Tuner, ISD, Input Buffer, Dynamic, etc.)
This a very clear explanation of something that most people consider sorcery. I saw someone with a send effect first in their chain.
Thanks for watching!
Hey Mason, thanks for sharing your pedalboard knowledge and expertise, it is very much appreciated by all. You have answered so many of my questions and I didn’t even need to ask them. Thanks!
Glad to help!
Thank you, Jack Black.
I was gonna say Danny McBride
where do i put pre amp or amp/cab sim pedal???
very end after loop pedal
Great video, I’ve already sent this to a few of my friends who always ask my opinion on their signal path. I myself have been using a Timmy into a rat, and was feeling something was off whenever I play at full volume, reversed their order after watching this and going to try in the rehearsals this week.
I like to use tremolo at the end of my chain, love the way it chops up the whole thing. Also I saw it somewhere that in vintage amps that came with tremolo and reverb, they put tremolo after the reverb.
Thanks for sharing!
Man times have changed. Back in the 80s we just moved pedals around until it sounded good. Learned a lot doing stuff like that.
Wish I would’ve been there sucks I was born in the 90s and didn’t start getting into pedals til the late 2000s 😂
We still do that. Literally nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed
This is essential knowledge, it's also to be completely disregarded outside of figuring out why your sound is bad in a certain area or maybe you just have one pedal out of place and you can refer to something like this and see if your set up makes sense. But I find sounds all the time that don't follow this rubric, especially mixing pedal brands, it all goes out the window
What about a looper? Nice presentation.
Personally, I would like my looper before any effects, so I have a clean dry loop, and I can run that through different effects without it being permanently wet
@@ThePonDePon Thanks for the reply.
Looper are special! You can put them any where depending on the situations.
Are you recording riffs and want to try out different pedal combos? But then after the buffer.
Are you trying to do something ambient that is stereo put them before the time pedals.
Are you on the street making sound affects? Put it at the end (end being before the power amp or in the end FX loop of amp.)
You can put a looper anywhere! It's a no rules pedal because it just records and replays.
@@Robbie_The_Froggie trying to create riffs.
@@rebuiltbyusn just put it at the end of your chain!
Where I put the tuner pedal? 😱
I was wondering that too
At the front of the chain , so you’re tuning to the pure guitar sound.
Use your brain a little
I think it would go where the 1st Buffer is basically. Some tuners are also Buffers. Fuzz pedals with 1, 2, or 3 circuits don’t like Buffers and can sound “off”.
In your ears 😂
what about the noise gate?
Noise gate should go early in the chain so that it is gating based on your cleanest input signal to best differentiate between what is your instrument input and what is noise. Then you use the noise gate's send/receive loop for any pedals you want to remove noise from (OD/Distortion). Be aware if your noise suppression pedal has a built-in buffer for the impedance sensitive pedals. Then afterwards would be delay/reverb, things with trails that shouldn't get cut by the gate, and the rest of the chain.
Thanks!
This is a really good video for all of us who are starting in this whole universe of pedals
You did an amazing job!
As a beginner, this is a fantastic HOW TO which deserves to be seen by anyone just starting to play around with effects. Great advice... Great ideas... And a great MAP which logically organizes the signal path. My question concerns NOISE GATES : where in the chain do such devices typically go...? 🤔
Depends what you're trying to gate out, amp distortion or pedal distortion
@@VertexEffectsInc It seems as if my crunch distortion is the SOURCE of the noise: the more volume or gain I dial in, the greater the noise. But its so hard to really tell because I also have a stacked vintage overdrive and the volume on both my amp & guitar are somewhat high. Playing around with any of those seems to affect the buzz/hum/whistle coming from my amp. Needless to say, I'm confused.
Why use an extra buffer when using 'Boss' or other pedals with buffers built into them ?
Those work too. I have my Boss TU-3 first in my chain for that exact reason. I don’t have an out buffer, but I only have a 10 foot cable from the last pedal to the amp.
Rig Doc covers this in a separate video. Generally, you want the 1Meg/100ohm specs for a buffer, but some pedals do not have those ratings because the pedal is designed to function a certain way but may impact overall signal integrity. There is no 'standard' for these values, so you find variance.
@@RobBusinger neat. Thanks for the further insight. How can I find out what different pedals are so I can compare between ones I have and wether or not I need to look into a dedicated buffer?
@@steelman774 I think he mentions some examples in his video. Many builders include in their specs, too. I've probably found it for 75% of mine. If you trial it by including the pedal and then removing it from the chain (like disconnecting) you will be able to audibly observe, too.
Where does guitar tuner goes ?
First
I do it last to use as a signal mute.
@@amoshopson7923 yeah but if you tune with it at last it might change the pitch bc of the effects. En besides its not a signal mute its a tune. Im not mad btw.
If it's true bypass, anywhere early in the chain is fine. If it's buffered, then after your input buffer, or even better paralleled off the output of your input buffer so that the input is always fed on the tuner.
@@VertexEffectsInc what it is waza or strobostomp? What would you do with those 2?
Pop sounds are driving me nuts!!
Didn’t hear it til you said - now I’m going insane!
Great video. I took many notes and will try out some of the recommendations. However, what I was missing: there is nothing being said whether some pedals are usually put in front of an FX Loop of an Amp or after the preAmp of an Amp.
This is an excellent channelI I think this is an example of the order of pedals if you're not getting distortion from your amp. The order completely changes if you're using a hi gain amp. I use distortion and boost pedals to change the character of my amp's tone set at low to mid gain distortion .I use my eq's pre distortion to also change the character. All my time base effects go through either the effects loop of my amps or after a reactive load on the speaker output of my amps. I think that's the best way to use time base effects because they sound cleaner. The negative part about it is that you need to log around more gear.
George, agreed, we state that in the beginning that this is for a series pedalboard assuming you have all the pedals running into a clean amp. We have a few more of these coming for 4CM using a high gain amp, and Wet/Dry/Wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I’ve been playing guitar professionally for over 40 years and in my opinion using a reactive load, splitting the signal for dry and for the effects in parallel into a mixer then to a tube power amp is more ideal for me.You can crank your amp as loud as you want to reach the sweet spot. But I’m trying to make my live gear scalable depending on the gig. I’ve never used an effects loop on my amps before until recently. That’s why your channel has been very helpful! For small gigs I can’t log around so much gear! Looking forward for your next video!
@@eljodon Thanks for watching!
First time im hearing about buffer's.
Where do i put the tuner
on the head stock
jokes aside, my volume pedal has a tuner out setting. i would put it after impedance sensitive pedals, but before everything else.
I put my polytune first.
No real reason why. Since it's off whenever you're playing. I don't think it matters where in the chain it goes. Wherever's easiest to use and reach.
@@mattosborne1366 same here
Where would I put a looper pedal?
Personally I would put it to the end, to capture the final & ready signal and loop it. As long as the sound is fit for your taste, there are no rights or wrongs :)
Dead last!
Great job man. I am a new guitar player and this is exactly what I needed to have a foundation to start from. Ignore the hater or haters on here as he or they clearly didn't watch or pay attention to your video. You clearly stated multiple times that there are no right or wrong ways and set is entirely up to the individual but this is your classical rendition for any end user to manipulate anyway they want. I cant even believe Will C's comment.
Don't delete this as it serves a valuable purpose on a global social network. If someone got here they got here for the very reason of learning a good starting point for a way of setting up the signal path and you NEVER said it was the only way.
Thanks for posting and I will be creating my board board soon.
Please don't even lose sleep over Will's extremely out of line comment. People like him are what is going wrong with this world. Lets all work to help one another and not tear each other apart.
Thanks
Thanks for watching!
@@VertexEffectsInc I am sure i will be watching it multiple times to have some of that info sink in.
I bought a Univibe from Voodoo Labs years back, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get that Hendrix distorted Univibe sound ala Machine Gun. I thought about it, did some research and figured out that he had the Univibe going into a distorted amp, and apparently before his Fuzz Face. I switched it around and voila, there it was. Brilliant! You really have to experiment. It's like chorus or flanger before or after delay. I played around with that, and realized that delay *before* flange and chorus just sounds better to me. It's subtle, but I hear it. Rather than delay repeats with the sweep of the chorus/flange now being fixed or the same on every repeat, the repeats all hit a different point in the sweep of these pedals. It's sounds more dynamic to these ears. It all has to be played with. There really isn't right or wrong. Even these alleged standards mentioned in this video are not fixed. It depends on the person. I've seen people put pedals in sequences I would never dream of, but it works for them. Having seen that, one "boutique" pedal maker was telling people to put their compressor *after* the distortion/OD pedals. A lot of people began complaining of increased noise after doing this. Well, no wonder! People would put the compressor before the gain and the problem was gone, or improved. Just goes to show, you should *never* trust a so called authority, but rather, trust your own ears.
Where you you put Noise Gate?
Watch “Advanced Signal Paths” video
Great video. Where do you suggest a compressor be put? After input buffer?
I have a basic pedal board with:
guitar > overdrive > distortion > noise gate > chorus/flanger > delay > amp
I have a 5150 Stealth. When I run this pedal board into the front of the amp on the clean channel, it sounds super thin no matter how I dial the pedals and the amp.
HELP! ANYONE!
Try running the overdrive after the distortion, and using the flanger and delay in the fx loop it might help.
These videos are very thorough and entertaining.
Thanks for watching!
I’m here because I’m building a board to my personal tone needs. This has been very helpful. I feel it is a little advanced for some but still super informative. Thanks!
kinda sad my favorite type of pedal wasn't in this video
everyone overlooks the tuner :^(
If it's true bypass, first. If not then after the input buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc imma weirdo and put it last b/c i only have 4 pedals before it and i use it to mute the crazy twist effect i can do with the boss dd-20
You can still mute with it first
i like my overdrive before the distortion
Perfect example of signal preference. I've got a EH Soul Food running about half gain into an Earthquakers Plumes running about Half gain. The Plumes definitely has more gain than the Soul Food but to me it sounds better running these 2 pedals lower into higher. I've tried a couple times running them the other way but just doesn't sound right. I am going to try phaser before drive though, and boost right after drive. Thanks again! You're always looking out for us!
Good stuff!
Hey Mason, thank you for all your shared information. I greatly appreciate all your many tips. Using your guidelines, I was able to successfully build my first pedalboard. One love.
Tuner?
absolutely first in your chain unless there is a fuzz. fuzz goes first, then your tuner, then everything else.
examples of input buffers please because I have never heard of this. and output buffers. thank anyone lol
If you read the specs about your pedals, some say true bypass, and some say buffered. If you use a buffered pedal, the buffer is built in and is active, even when that pedal in your chain is turned off, and no need to buy a separate buffer pedal. True bypass means that when you turn the pedal off, the rest of the signal chain does not even recognize that the pedal is there. Except, the extra length of cable to have the pedal does affect the tone minutely. I’ve read that it’s good to have a combination of buffered and true bypass filters in the chain. So far, every Boss Pedal I have seen is buffered.
Best input buffer is TC Electronics PolyTune 3 mini
I just got an Xotic Super Clean, it's a boost with a built in buffer switch that you can turn on and off :) also has some EQ switches
LET'S ASK THE REAL QUESTIONS HERE:
WHERE DO I PUT THE MIKU PEDAL?!
Glad someone said it.