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Predator 9500 Review: All The Technical Tidbits In Under Ten Minutes (+Important Break-In Warning!)
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- All the technical details about the new Harbor Freight Predator 9500 Generator you'd ever want to know, including outlet wiring, see the power waveform on an oscilloscope, tips, tricks, and more... and a big warning about metal flakes in the oil during the break-in period.
Details about the parallel kit can be found on my other video here: • Predator 9500 Home Bui...
A more detailed comparison of power quality between Line Power, the 9500, and a traditional generator: • Predator 9500 Inverter...
The Magnetic Dipstick Shown In Video (I have no relationship with these guys):
amzn.to/3xbyVNL
Update 8/12/21: If you'd like to add a magnetic drain plug as well, it takes an M12x1.5. I recently installed this one I found on amazon, no affiliation. Was just installed, no testing yet for results.
amazon.com/dp/...
The following is a link to the full playlist of the video series on these generators, there are now (5),
All The Technical Tidbits
Home Built Parallel Kit
Generator Power vs. Line Power
Easy Start by MicroAir to let a portable generator run your central AC
How To Connect A Generator To Your Home
Playlist: • Predator 9500 Generato...
Hope this helps people!
This is the best, most informative video I’ve seen lately. Subscribed!
Thanks! My goal was to be informative, without all all the fluff. No 10min of watching just to get 15sec of actual content. You don't learn my cat's name, nor what I had for lunch, or even what my favorite TV show is.
No click-bait headlines... and most importantly:
No exaggerated click-bait thumbnail of a nuclear cloud coming out of a generator and/or a thumbnail of my face cut out while trying to manage the most stupid expression I can come up with. I'm the anti-trend in UA-cam. ;-)
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to share all of this information. I just bought one of these a couple of days ago. I’m thinking of picking up a second one to be able to run the whole house with no concerns. I got quotes from a few local companies to have a unit installed and they were all in the $12,000-$14000 range.
That was my thing. I like the idea of the automatic ones, but the cost wasn't in the cards.
Thank you for the metal filings warning. Recently I learned that heat degrades the magnet's strength. They make Neodymium Magnet and Samarium Cobalt magnets that can take higher temperature; up to 350°C. The oil drain plug I just ordered is OK up to 302°F. and will be installed before the new generator is initially started.
So far I haven't seen any issues with the magnets losing strength. I don't think they're getting quite hot enough to cause that.
Thanks for the oil filler cap recommendation. I found the same one that you bought on Amazon and just ordered it. I just bought the generator and I think I’m gonna wait for the cap to come in before I even start it up now. Glad I watched this video.
I'd also suggest a magnetic oil drain plug. It's an M12x1.5 size. I purchased this one:
amazon.com/dp/B08M3HCVPW
@@Texas_DIY have you had issues with that plug not sealing properly? And do you need to replace the crush washer each time you take it off?
Thank you for taking distance into account for dB readings. No one includes distance, even the manufacturers and it is critical to getting a meaningful result.
Glad it helped. Yeah, dB ratings never seem to mean much because you have no idea how they conducted the testing.
Price is now $2199, though I got a new in box return where the buyer never put the oil in or started for $1759, minus another 15% off with coupon and their credit card. Only annoyance was realizing their warranty is only 90 days, versus two or three years for many others. Since I saved so much I bought their one year warranty, which I also got the discount on. Very happy!
yeah, there are deals to be had. Also, HF does not track serials, so an extended warranty for one could have "actually been purchased for the other unit"...
I paid an extra $300 and got the DuroMax XP9000iH Dual Fuel I mainly run on propane so works for me. Parallel two and you get 15,200 running watts gasoline and 14,400 on propane. Low THD, propane burns cleaner and longer shelf life.
Would be nice if HF offered Duel Fuel
From what I've seen those units are virtually identical to the HF 9500, same engine and most of the internals... apart from the spiffy extra goodies the Duromax offers. I am kind of weirded out by the lack of a neutral on the parallel kit connection though.
Excellent video....I finally purchased one of these about a month ago. Went through the break in period and changed to synthetic oil after 30 hours and a couple oil changes.
Last week I load tested the unit with my 4 ton AC and all was well. I was able to run AC, tv's, lights, refrigerator and chest freezer without issue. In an attempt to see how much it could take, I tried the microwave as well. That tripped the breaker on the generator. Easily manageable in an emergency situation by being smart about when to run certain things. In TX north of Houston, I'm mainly concerned with keeping the house cool during hurricane season so this was a big win for me.
I did install a SureStart from Hyper Engineering which brought my in-rush amps down to 46 from 132. I imagine your SlowStart will produce similar results, but would love to see your readings.
I watched your previous video on the dual setup and am seriously considering getting a 2nd one (if I can find another lol) .... I dig the meters you put on and will be doing that with my existing setup regardless. In my mind, they should have added this on the front meter (the documentation talks about being able to display it, but as you know, it's only an hour meter)
Thanks again....Liked and Subscribed for future videos!
Thank you for the kind words. "unboxing" and "will it run my electric appliance" videos seem common, but I wanted to offer useful technical info that no one else had. Plus I refuse on principal to go full click-bait on the titles, or do thumbnails with cut out heads featuring absurd expressions. Hopefully people still find it if it's something they need.
In my situation, I could probably, maybe, get by with one machine, but I would have to really ration the power if the AC were needing to start. With two, I can live almost normally and easily just forget everything is on generator power. Though the electric dryer (When combined with AC and everything else that's normally on) seems to push it nearly to the limits. I quickly turned that off though, as I'm not through the break in period and don't want to strain them too much yet.
Starting AMPs on my 5 ton Heat Pump AC were 81.5 on my meter. Though the LRA (Locked Rotor Amps) rating is 117 (meaning from a dead stop, it's within normal range for it to pull up to 117amps). With the soft start, on the very first start it was down to 64, and after a few more starts (the learning process), the bluetooth app for the soft starter reported that it was consistently keeping the starting amps to around 44 (my own meter reads a max of 31.5) so it's somewhere in that range.
The electronics in the soft start are remarkably sophisticated (it can literally send a waveform to the manufacturer for troubleshooting), so I'd trust it... though if it's accurate, that means that the 44 amp load is so brief, that my clamp on amp meter can't even detect it quickly enough. Once it's running, it only needs around 11.3 for the compressor (14amps overall with the fans, etc.)
It was disappointing that Harbor Freight ditched the amp meter in favor of only the hour meter. The lack of oil filter and... unfortunate placement of the air filter is certainly less than ideal. But for the price, there still is nothing that can touch it. I didn't want to modify my actual machines, so my purposes, it seemed to make the most sense to combine the amp meters into the parallel kit.
I've got most of the pieces ready to assemble the video covering how to hook it up to a home / sizing the generator. Though I should probably do the soft start one first as it would be much shorter and faster to get done. Good Luck!
I'm in the Houston area and have the some concern regarding AC during Hurricane season. Can these be converted to run on propane or natural gas? I'd rather not have to manage fresh gasoline.
@@jghall00 Duromax dual fuel and parrell kite so don’t DIY
Outstanding informative video! Thanks so much for taking the time to produce and share it!
Thanks, glad you liked it.
Awesome video. Like the set up. I did build a new parallel kit using the DuroMax kit housing. I'll be doing a video on it soon. But definitely like how you installed the meters to see amps and voltage. I need to add that to mine. Also finally got the CO sensor to stop going off. Ugh. Lol.
Thanks. Your discovery of the PowerHorse parallel kit was the key to making it all safely happen, thanks again for finding that!
I'll be curious to see how you dealt withe missing neutral on that kit, looking forward to it.
I've not needed to mess with my CO sensors as I don't have them in an enclosure...yet... did you find a way to jumper it, or just cover it up?
Where did you get The Co sensor ?
Looking forward to video about your electrical box. I have a similar Cutler-Hammer/Eaton panel on my house but without a main breaker. I need to upgrade my box like yours. Excellent series of videos, BTW! Last February was not kind to central Texas, so I am preparing now. Thank you for sharing!
No main breaker? Yikes. Does the box have a spot for one? I'd be sure to add that. It's the key to the whole thing. You have to be able to turn off the incoming feed before you connect in the generator(s).
That video has turned into a bigger thing than was intended. Just covering the hookup is easy enough, but it's morphed into a whole thing about judging the amount of power capacity you'll need. I think it might need to be split into two. One quick and easy covering the actual hookup, and one that covers judging capacity/need. coming soon...
@@Texas_DIY Agreed. Luckily the box is designed to have a main breaker and the leads from the meter are plenty long enough to install it, relocate to other large breaker to accommodate for the generator indeed breaker and install the interlock kit. Sounds like the right call on splitting those concerns into 2 separate videos. Looking forward to them. Thank you
You can put a magnetic drain plug too. I have them on mine since 2000. For a quiet claim, the HF is noisy. The Honda EU7000is is only 52db
No doubt the Honda will be a better and quieter machine. It's like comparing a Kia to a Lexus. But the "Kia" is much less than half the cost, and in my case, with the limited amount of usage these will ultimately get, the "Kia" definitely will get me from point "a" to point "b" just as well as the "Lexus". :-)
Do you have a link to the magnetic drain plug? I'd love to pick up some of those to add in. Anything to further reduce the metal shavings floating around in there would be a very good thing.
@@Texas_DIY I am thinking on getting one of those Predators as a backup for my Honda. I took mine out, measured it and went by that.
I measured mine and ordered one. It takes an M12x1.5 drain plug.
The Honda might be quieter, but it's also significantly down on power comparatively speaking. The Predator has a running wattage higher than the Honda's starting wattage. The only way to beat the Predator is to buy two Hondas. At that point you're spending over 10 grand and I'll bet you're no longer quieter either. Apples to Apples would be nice, but neither Honda nor Yamaha has a quiet inverter generator that's anywhere near 9500 watts. I feel like Honda is the Blackberry of generators. Great and reliable, but resting on their laurels and not doing enough with new products or competitive pricing. Every year, there's less and less reason to buy a Honda vs the competition.
Just bought one. This video helps a lot. Thank you.
Glad it helped!
If a lineman with a utility company believes that the power is off and he is up on a utility pole and your generator back feeds i it can kill him instantly. Proper way to use your generator is to have a disconnect so when you're using your generator it doesn't backfeed and take out a lineman, if you're not going to hook it up properly then pull the meter , this will ensure that your generator doesn't kill someone.
Yup. My other videos where it talks about connecting it to your house emphasizes this VERY heavily. Interlocks physically prevent the breakers from being in a configuration that allows back feeding, and are legal and considered safe. (no need to pull the meter... and in fact, in my area the meters are security tagged and they really.. really... won't like it if you mess with the meter)
Good about the hottest part of Summer being that that's a closed case with an engine running and a powerhead create a lot of heat, then it is in the ☀️ for what I gather on the internet overheating is possible because it's not getting enough cool air
I designed the enclosure to augment the generator's existing cooling fans. Thick expanding foam strips seal against the generator body, such that each unit is exhausting out (both the engine exhaust, and the cooling heat exhaust) this makes the generators themselves pull air through and out of the enclosure, while the DC automotive fans augment them. (this also prevents the exhaust from tripping the CO sensor in the generators).
So the generators are pulling air through and cooling normally, so the only added heat inside is what might radiate out from the plastic generator enclosures... which are pretty well sealed and cooled by design. In my testing, airflow is quite sufficient, I ran them with the lid closed for 4+ hours in the peak TX summer heat with temp probes all over the inside, including the top of the enclosure. The temps were always within a few degrees of ambient.
I got lucky and guessed right on the fan sizes and such, and thankfully, didn't have to redesign anything.
Great video. Very helpful -- particularly about the magnetic dipstick. That might be the difference between the inverter lasting 2,000 hours versus 1,000 hours.
I expect it will help prolong the life of the motors. Particularly if you are a heavy user. In my case, I'm still not much over the 30hr breakin period on both of them as power outages are pretty rare... but I'm still happy to have the extra protection, especially since there isn't an oil filter on these units.
Thanks for sharing the magnets. I had never seen them before and I'm making an order. 👍
No problem 👍 Glad it helped.
Superb video. Thank you for the hard work on this very informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the schematics. I cannot find any home generator stuff with any schematic. You don't need a jumble of words with a schematic!
Glad I could help
Thanks for the informative video. Question. I have a large motorhome (two AC, 50 service cord) that I use the generator a lot. Looking to get something like this to save on the Onan that is onboard which is a 8,000 watt. Would this be a good candidate for that?
Something like that would work great. But you might consider something like the GENMAX GM9000iED (looks like the current model adds a "c" to the end) on Amazon. It's made by the same factory, and solves all the shortcomings of the other similar models (predator, duromax, etc.) It has an easier access air filter, an oil filter, dual fuel, nice gauges on the front, can parallel them together without making a box, and it also has a remote control, so you could start it without having to go outside.
Isn't the engine aluminum, how will a magnet help collect that?
Fair point, but it still uses some steel parts inside that made those flakes.
Why are my legs unbalanced. I'm plugged into the 30A far right and it trios the breaker when I'm only running about 6k watts but I am over 30A on one leg but not the other.
Split phase 240 consists of two legs of 120V power. I'll call it the X and Y leg. Measure X and Y and you get 240VAC. Measure either X or Y to Neutral, and you get 120V.
240V appliances are pretty balanced. (some stuff may have a 120v light or electronics that just pull from one of the legs) But motors and such that are actual 240v will pull evenly from both legs. However all of your normal 120V stuff, only pulls from X or Y. You just ended up with more 120v stuff pulling from X than Y (or vice versa)
Your breaker box splits the loads alternating on the way down between the legs. So just they way your breakers ended up sending power out, you happen to have more stuff on one side than the other.
I cover the breakers and how the loads are split up in the other videos, the playlist is here:
ua-cam.com/play/PLzoNthJzzMFQ877vyCfoc53oDQqGFAIKN.html
Hope that helps
Thank you for making this video, so dang helpful
Glad it helped!
Great review and great advice. I ordered the magnetic dip stick and a drain plug.
I did the magnetic drain plug as well. Some of the reviews warned about it breaking from over tightening... so be gentle. :-) So far, mine isn't leaking or anything, and I feel better with the magnets sucking away most of the junk.
I just ordered two myself from this vid. Thank you
Good shipping, easy set up and start
Stupid question, I'm planning on buying one of these to power a food trailer I'm making. My question is how do I get all the power from this generator to my panel in my trailer? I need around 65 amps of power. How do I tap into it to get all of the wattage?
You'll need a generator inlet. Basically male plugs that attach to your breaker box. Those male plugs are connected to a breaker that will feed the power from the generators into your breaker box when that breaker is on. If you have another source of power (from utility) that breaker must remain OFF when line / service power is connected, otherwise those exposed male plugs are energized and very dangerous. Additionally, if you generators connected and line power on, bad things happen to your generator. This is what an interlock does, preventing the line power breaker and your generator breaker, from being on at the same time.
Things are crazy for me right now, but I have at least one more video I need to make on that subject. But you can see some shots of my setup mixed in with the other videos.
@@Texas_DIY thanks so much for your reply!!
@@maxpenichet7243 I also highly suggest just defaulting to the 50amp inlet and having it feed via a matching 50 or 60amp breaker. This future proofs you, in the event you decide to use a more powerful generator, or team up two of them. I used this on my home for the inlet:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NVRS4HD
These are rated for 31.6A (each) continuous and 39.5 A peak (momentarily). The outlet is 30A. Before you buy the TWO of these that you'd need, you should know that 65A@240V is above the continuous rating of (just one of these)7600watts. 65x240=15600. 7600x2(generators)=15200. 15600>15200. If you are adding up all the circuit breakers in a panel to arrive at your 65A max load, I don't think that's how you clalculate it, but I'm a plumber. You should ask an electrician.
Stupid question...I've had this for 2 years. Used it twice....just refilled the oil, filled up with fuel. As soon as i start it, goes directly into overload. Nothing plugged in engine will not revup at all. Possibly carb float?
Usually only revs up under load (or if you have eco mode off it runs at a standard speed). Going direct to overload sounds like something is defective (assuming you have nothing connected when it does this)
@Texas_DIY FYI it was actually the inverter..... what's completely fried I must have overloaded it the last time I used it. Replace the inverter for a 340 bucks good as new.
Great review, advice on connections and improvements.
Thanks!
Is there room enough to install the oem tri-fuel carburetor, not the spacer type.. has anybody installed on of these?
It's a pretty tight fit in there. Some people have converted the Predator series over to natural gas / propane, but honestly, if you need multi-fuel, consider the GENMAX GM9000iED on Amazon. It's made by the same factory / people, and it solves all the shortcomings of the Predator and the Duromax.
(it has a fuel filter, rear exhaust, 50A plug, remote control electric start, auto choke, nice detailed control panel display... and makes the same clean power)
For the money the Predator 9500 is a good generator but you can get the the genmax wich comes with a oil fiter and has more features than the predator like a 50amp plug but it only has 9000, but the pulseair is the same as the genmax and it has 9500 with the 50amp plug and oil filter.
Totally agree. In past comments I've suggested that to folks:
If you need multi-fuel, consider the GENMAX GM9000iED on Amazon. I've confirmed that it's made by the same factory / people that make the Predator and the Duromax machines, and it solves all the shortcomings of those machines.
(it has the same engine and most of the same guts, but adds a fuel filter, rear exhaust, 50A front panel plug, remote control electric start, auto choke, nice detailed control panel display... and still makes the same clean power)
And because it has that 50A plug, the Powerhorse parallel kit that joins them together can be used stock, with no box, plug, etc.
How to pull of the coil magnet
Not sure what you're asking...
Good video for break-in the inverter and general info . Can you tell me what it is the length of the control knob (Off/Run/Start) for the Harbor Freight Predator 9500 that you have? Looking to see if the knob it is compatible with other invertors. I'm interested for the length of the axle after the round area that sits outside the front panel.
Thank you
Checked it this morning for you. If you remove the knob nothing will protrude, the plastic knob itself actually has a shaft on it that terminates in a female end point. The shaft extends about 2 inches into the generator housing where it is is held in place by a phillips screw that locks the plastic knob/shaft onto the valve inside that it turns.
Last question.... Could you connect the L14-30R connectors from each generator together to run the generator in Parallel? Or is there something special about the parallel ports. My concern is the gauge of the wire on the parallel kits seems small.
**Technically**, I don't see why it wouldn't work to use the L14-30 plugs, but, it would very risky and dangerous for reasons you might not think of... here is my warning about doing so:
First off: There is a comment in the history of the video from a user "B F" where he implies that would be a better method. Only I think he was suggesting each 30amp feed would go into the main circuit breaker, with no parallel "kit", the logic being more available amperage from the pair. I went into a bit of a wall of text regarding the pitfalls of doing so. But let's say it was a parallel kit instead.
So instead of direct feeding it into the home from the 30amp plugs (very bad idea) you instead made a parallel kit where each 30amp plug is joined together in a box with the 50amp female dryer plug. Basically, just like mine, but with 30amp male plugs on the ends vs. the parallel kit connection.
Danger 1: As soon as you energized one side with a generator connected and running, the exposed male plugs on the other cable would also be energized with 240VAC. (so, suicide plug ) This also means if one plug were to fall out, get removed, knocked out, whatever, those falling exposed metal plugs are energized.
Danger 2: And this one is the doozy that most people probably wouldn't consider... the power of each 30 amp socket is passed through a breaker on the front panel of the generator whereas the parallel ports **are a direct connection to the inverter with no circuit breaker**, this is really important, and I believe it's wired that way for a very good reason.
If one generator of the pair is disconnected from the circuit (say breaker trips on either front panel, or one of the plugs is removed or falls out) ***then the generators will no longer be synchronized***. Those two machines have to stay perfectly in sync to an accuracy of 1/60th of a second. Meaning just like two clocks that you turned on at the same time will not remain perfectly sync'd for more than a few moments, almost immediately the two units (now running independently) will probably drift out of frequency sync.
So if for example, the plug fell out and you put it back, or if the breaker tripped and you reset it... this would probably do *spectacularly bad* things to the inverters and, to the sensitive electronic equipment in your home. As your power would suddenly be composed of two different frequencies at the same time.
I believe this is why they wire the parallel kit directly to the inverter via the specialized ports, making it hard to accidentally disconnect them (firm fit, and no breakers to potentially interrupt the circuit), and, why if one of these generators ends up overloaded, it forces you to completely shut it off the machine and restart it, (there is no reset button).
By making you completely restart the machine, it forces an overloaded unit, (that would now be out of sync) to be started from scratch, allowing it to re-synchronize with a still operating generator on the circuit, and not get all explode-y.
So yes... you could do that, and I don't see why they wouldn't initially synchronize if they were both plugged in, and the circuit breakers on when they started. But the plugs would be dangerous, and, you'd be setting yourself up for a situation where extraordinarily bad things could happen, if you or someone else made one single mistake when operating them. Proceed with extreme caution.
The gauge of the wire isn't too bad, considering in this kit it's only carrying the load of one generator. Once they combine together, then you can pull a greater load off of them at that point and would potentially need a higher gauge wire from the physical point they combine to the 50amp plug.
So how is the generator doing 1 year later? Any problems with it?
So far so good. A few weeks back, we lost power in our area for a few hours again after a freeze and a lot of trees fell on power lines. We were able to run them and live pretty normally. I did have them get overloaded once when our Heating kicked in (must have been heating pads and compressor) combined with the hot water heater running (which alone pulls 20Amps). So I ended up just flipping the breaker on the hot water heater for a bit, let the heat run, then turned the thermostats down and let the hot water heater run and it was fine.
We were lucky, only a few hours without power. There were some in nearby Austin that went over 4 days without power.
Two items…I’ve watched a number of videos on the Predator and have yet to get the answer on whether this unit has aluminum or copper windings (did not find on HF website)…next, as a former salesman, rental man, and product manager of light construction equipment (45 years total) the amount of metal shavings shown after the first 16 hours is troubling, I’ve not seen that with Honda, Wisconsin (RIP), Robin, Kohler , Kawasaki, Yamaha, or even Briggs & Stratton small gasoline engines.
No doubt that it's disturbing. Particularly as there is no oil filter (or maybe that's why if other machines have filters?) I'm not sure if it's coming from the internal mechanisms, or if it's left over from manufacturing that they never cleared out, or what. But it certainly is unsettling. The Honda would certainly be a better machine, but, at well over twice the cost, is it that much better?
In any case, thankfully there have been very few reports of engines failing in these machines, so I'm hoping with the magnets, it will keep things clear. Even after 30hrs, apart from the metal flakes, the oil was remarkably clean, with very little black carbon in it. So it seems they're pretty tight otherwise.
No idea on the material used for the windings. I would assume copper... but who knows. I did learn that generators have odd windings that are quite different from conventional generators. Inverter machines make very high frequency power, so when the machine slows down there is still enough going on for the inverters to convert it over. It's interesting stuff.
@@Texas_DIY I've done break-ins on many small engines, including many small inverter gens, and they ALL have the shiny brass-looking flakes in the oil, after a 5-8 hour break in. This includes Honda, Yamaha, Briggs, Kohler, Predator, Generac, Champion, other clones, etc. After draining the oil into a pan, I've run a strong magnet through the waste oil and 99% of it doesn't stick, so it's non-ferrous metal like brass. I also have a magnetic dipstick in my personal Yamaha 2000 that's 5 years old, and nothing seems to stick to the magnet, which is guess is good.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about what I saw in your video. Regular oil changes are always the best insurance and peace of mind.
Great video though, thank you!
That Duromax clone is sure interesting too. $600 more but dual fuel and a proper display panel.
Is there a way to adjust the output voltage? Mine is running around 124v, I’d like to get it to 120v if possible.
Interesting. No way that I'm aware of, but you might try another meter to confirm if it's the generator or the multi-meter that's off. Either way, 4 volts isn't going to really hurt anything, there is often that much flux in the lines normally, and UPS units often won't even kick on until it's at least 5 volts off.
124 is close enough. Try your meter in a house outlet.
Hey Jay! Great vid. Can you tell me what is the purpose of the breaker that’s on the 9500? I have a food cart. At first I had issues tripping the breakers in food cart because of the amounts of watts plugged into certain breakers. I had electrician correct. After that everything was running fine. I just couldn’t run certain appliances together to avoid overloading watts. Fast forward to last night. I turned gen on .. everything was working as it should. Maybe an hour into having gen on, the entire power to the trailer turned off. No breakers were tripped. During that time I was showing someone how to switch AC to off. I don’t know if it was coincidence but this is when power quit. After checking breakers in cart, plugs, cord to gen, I couldn’t find anything. I reached out to my electrician and he said to check breaker on generator. Sure enough when I flipped it, power came back on. I only have maybe 8 hours on gen and this is my first one. Can you tell me any details on this and any advice to avoid? It shut my business down a good hour before figuring out. Also, to note… not much power was plugged in during this time when power cut. Also, gen was still running when it happened. Thanks so much for your time!!!
I'm assuming that you're using the 30a plug on the front, and running that into your truck.
The front panels of the generator have breakers for safety, just like there are breakers in your house. I'm assuming that your food cart also has a breaker box. If you're pulling too much juice from the generator (over the 30amp limit of the breaker on the front panel) it will cut off and all power shuts down.
If you're pulling more power on a circuit than the breaker (in your cart) is rated for, it will cut off. (if the breaker in your cart, and the one on the front panel of the generator are the same amperage, than it will be random luck which one is more sensitive and cuts off first.)
So if the breaker inside your food truck is less than 30 amps, and keeps tripping, that implies you've got enough power, but you're pulling too much power from that circuit. And you need to plug in some stuff into a different circuit (different plug supplied by a different breaker). But if you're tripping the breaker on the front panel of the generator, (the 30a) then you're exceeding what the generator can make.
If you need more power than the generator can make, It's possible to team two together, which is what I was doing with my setup, and that doubles the potential output. Or just run another one and run some stuff on one, and some stuff on the other.
The other videos in the series are here: ua-cam.com/play/PLzoNthJzzMFQ877vyCfoc53oDQqGFAIKN.html
Can I leave it in quiet mode through out the entire time while running my house? Or should I leave it off when running heavy loads like ac, dryer, etc?
I run mine in eco mode almost exclusively. Between the pair, they seem to be able to spin up quickly enough. If I were planning to run the clothes dryer (HUGE load) I may turn off eco mode so they're ready for it though.
Did you happen to examine the waveform while the unit is idled down in "Eco Mode" and a large load hits? Given how the lights dim in my house under those circumstances I can assume voltage drops temporarily but I'd love to know if the waveform gets bent out of shape (or if THD skyrockets). If I'm putting gizmos in the house at risk as a result I'll just run the thing at full speed full time.
I did, and the wave form remained solid (power did fluctuate by 1 volt when the AC kicked in). I have another video in the series where I compare line power, the inverter generators, and a traditional generator. The instructions say to not have them in eco mode when doing parallel. But I've seen no issue with doing so.
The exception is if I'm planning to run the clothes dryer... that thing is an absolute pig for power, and it's really best if the generators are fully spun up before kicking that thing off. Otherwise the lights get a little flickery as the generators struggle to get up to speed when in Eco mode. But if you don't have a huge load hitting (The AC is fine with the softstart, you don't hardly even hear the engine speeds change all that much) then it's no big deal, and the gas savings are more than worth it.
ua-cam.com/play/PLzoNthJzzMFQ877vyCfoc53oDQqGFAIKN.html
Awesome and informative video!!! love your detailed descriptions and explanations! MAHALO!!! i Haven't ran mines yet.. nut when doing a parallel kit..does it have to be the same size generator? im just worried because i have an ice cream and shaved ice truck here in hawaii..and i have 2 soft serve machines with one that needs 8000 starting watts to turn over the compressor..and the other needing 6000 starting watts to turn on that compressor! im just worried that if both kick on the same time, it may shut off (and why im looking at a DIY PARALLEL KIT with possibly running a lower watts generator. your thoughts on this..and MAHALO FROM HAWAII!!!
Aloha! That's a good question. I really don't know if they have to be the same size. But I think it's would probably be a really good idea that they are. The load is shared equally between the units, and both contribute to the total. 40Amps, means 20Amps from each of the units.
But what happens if you have a 20Amp generator, and a 40Amp generator... and then you ask for 50Amps? That would mean 25A from each, more than the first unit can handle.
I would THINK, that with copper wound units (if you managed to sync them), heat/resistance would build as you reached the unit's capacity, the output would lessen a bit and the other unit would simply feel more draw and supply more, picking up the slack for the lagging unit.
However with inverters, they just shut off when they pass their capacity. You have to power it off and back on to resume power production and to let them re-sync with the existing power frequency present. So the question is as one of these generators starts to exceed it's max, is there a point where it just doesn't supply any more (but keeps operating), allowing the other unit to contribute more... or does it just go "nope" and shut down. I have no idea... and don't have a decent way to test it.
I'd think you'd be better off with a pair of units. No doubt you have other stuff running in your truck (lights, fans, AC maybe, and the motor to shave the ice is probably going to pull a LOT, especially when you actually push it against the ice block and run it (not just on startup). I'd get an AMP meter and fire up everything at once, and do some testing. You may be pulling in total, quite a bit more than you think.
You might consider contacting Micro-Air and see if their units can be adapted for your ice cream compressors. Some of their units made for RV AC units might just cross over) If you haven't seen the other videos in the series, check them out, it talks about the inlet hookups, the Micro-Air soft start, etc. they might be helpful for what you're doing.
Just a quick question. You stated that the unit has around 31 Amps I’m assuming that’s at 240 V . If you use the 240 outlet for 2 120 volt legs i’m assuming that’s where they’re getting the 60 amp output 2 30amp legs.
Thanks
Yes. 240v pulls equally from both legs, and consumes available amperage evenly. Split phase 120v pulls from just one leg. So you could pull a total of around 60amps of 120V power. Note how the plugs are wired though from the video. The household GFCI outlets all pull from one leg, so you'd need to tap into either the 30amp 240plug, or, the 30amp 120V plug to access the other leg of power.
Can add a smaller invertor , or does have to be same size if you wire parrell the way you did in previous video did?
The inverter is built into the generator itself and fixed in capacity.
If you're asking can you use a smaller inverter generator at the same time... I don't know. If it's 240V, I would think yes (provided it's designed to be used in a parallel setup)
If it's a 120V generator, i really don't know. It might sync up and add capacity to one leg of power... or it might fry the whole system. I'm not sure if the 240V generators look at the full 240V sine wave, or, if they look at the split phase 120V sine to sync against... and if adding a supplement generator to the X or the Y leg would make a difference. What you absolutely don't want is for it to not sync, and you end up with two frequencies of power hitting your home at the same time.
I don't have the guts to risk frying my setup to test the idea. :-)
Great video.May I ask if the neutral is bonded on this?I was told if powering your home with a panel that is neutral bonded you need to have a floating ground
Thank
My understanding is that if it's permanently installed, you are supposed to unbond the neutral. If it's a temp hookup (which this is) it's typically not bothered with. So I did not unbond the neutral from the frame.
Other folks have made videos on how to do that... I believe the bonding cable is one of two that resides on the back of the panel, attached to the grounding screw.
@@Texas_DIY Thank you for the reply.Mine is temporary also but I’m going to remove mine after researching it.I don’t think it is a big deal at all but code does say neutral can only be bonded once(which is at my panel).
Does anyone know what those connectors on the parallel connections are called? Could you not create a box where with 2 such connectors would be wired in parallel internally then connected to 60A breaker for full power?
That's basically exactly what I did. The cables are just joined together color for color, and wired to the 50amp socket. The second generator will sync frequencies with the previously running machine that it detects on startup, and your power output is doubled.
This is the playlist of what I have so far for videos on the generators, one covers the parallel box.
ua-cam.com/play/PLzoNthJzzMFQ877vyCfoc53oDQqGFAIKN.html
That box then has a cable that runs to an inlet on the house for receiving power. That inlet is wired in via a breaker that remains off when line power is on, and can only be switched on if the line power main breaker is in the off position. (interlock plate)
Went to order dipstick and learned that the 9000 is a regular gen and the 9500 is an inverter. The pict on your video shows one for the 8750/9000, so I'm assuming the dipstick for 9000 and 9500 are the same (?). Also, a friend told me that the Predator and Honda engines are so similar that many of the parts are interchangable. Does anyone in here have any info on that?
The one I showed in the video worked great. Yeah, the description shows 8750/9000 but it fits. This is the amazon link: amazon.com/gp/product/B08CVLP2JY
I also ended up getting a magnetic drain plug as well (M12x1.5 size) this is what I purchased:
amazon.com/dp/B08M3HCVPW (got some extra crush washers, and don't crank it too tight... there were a few reports of the bolt breaking off)
I just got the same meters you have my question is do you have two supplied with AC power to make them operate . I would appreciate any advice you can give me so I can get them to work thanks.
I have two meters so I can measure the AMPs being output on both the X and Y legs. I considered wiring them across the two hot legs to get 240v (so I could confirm it's running in 240) but figured there was more value in monitoring the voltage of each 120v leg to make sure one side wasn't sagging or over/under volting. So I wired based on the diagram, the meter that watches "X" was wired X to N (120v), and the meter that watches "Y" was wired Y to N (120v).
Nice Video! I have a question where did the written comment: THD less than 3% come from? Is that an industry standard assumption? or did HF publish that? I've been searching for that info (looked at spec sheet) but I can't find it published. Thanks !
I got the stat from the generator bible website. No idea where they got the info from. Based on what I've seen with the power quality, I have no reason to doubt it, but my equipment isn't capable of independently testing THD for me to verify.
How do you feel about the potential longevity, or lack there of, with the Predator? It’s no secret that Harbor Freight’s reputation is that it produces cheap and effective products but they often are of poor quality and don’t last. Given this reputation, and the fact that this specific model is less than a year old, are you nervous? Do you trust it? Do you feel have any thoughts on the quality of their generators and engines in general?
Not really worried about it. These have been very well reviewed, and the cost is so much less than an equivalent Honda, that you could buy 2 and a half. These are certainly not perfect, but really get the job done well.
It didn't help me. I have a generator that does not run unless I unhook a module, at least that's what I am calling it. It is about 1 in x 1 in and has 4 wires coming out of it and it is screwed to the block and a plastic cover. The 4 wires are blk, red, yellow, and white. It is marked with a "H Q" After hours of work I discovered that unattached this from the block allowed the engine to keep running for more than a couple seconds. I can't find any wire diagram for this model nor don't know what this thing even does. When touching the medal housing the engine block the engine will shut dn. Anyone have any ideas?
Sounds like it might be a Carbon Monoxide sensor. If you're running it in an enclosed space, it's saving your life. If it's doing this in open air or a well ventilated space, it may be defective, or there might be an exhaust leak inside the generator.
@@Texas_DIY I'm not running it in an enclosed space and you would have to be in a room 10x 10 with doors and windows closed for this to ever be a problem. It's not the co2 sensor. I figured it out. It's a diode. They named it the oil safety and it is under the plastic cover with 2 safety screws. When it is attached to the engine it causes a weaker spark and it will run for a couple of seconds. Took me hours to figure this out and a week with HF to figure out what this part is. This machine is poorly engineered as it is very difficult to work on
They are hard to work on. I've since become a fan of the multi-fuel, GENMAX GM9000iED on Amazon. I've confirmed that it's made by the same factory / people that make the Predator and the Duromax machines, and it solves all the shortcomings of those machines.
(it has the same engine and most of the same guts, but adds a fuel filter, rear exhaust, 50A front panel plug, remote control electric start, auto choke, nice detailed control panel display... and still makes the same clean power)
And because it has that 50A plug, the Powerhorse parallel kit that joins them together can be used stock, with no box, plug, etc.
Still going to be a tight fit for servicing, but it's all a more refined version.
Watch out with those magnetic dip sticks. I had one for my Honda eu2000 and the magnet fell out of the aluminum dip stick and was sitting in the crankcase. I had to get it out with another magnet. If it would have gotten into the moving parts it would have caused catastrophic engine damage.
So far so good with mine... but yeah that was definitely a concern for me as well.
At 7:00 you labeled the top half of each 120V/20A female connectors with an N and a Y. Why didn't you label the bottom half of each connector with an N and an X, or did Harbor Freight forget to balance the X & Y loads?
As I recall, top and bottom were the same. I think harbor freight chose to balance by having the 30amp 120v on the far left, be the other leg. So ~30 amps of 120v from the household outlets combined, and another 30 from the far left plug.
Excellent video and commentary. I have a question: I own a traditional generator. Is it possible to mitigate surges, spikes even brown-outs with whole house surge protectors installed in the main breaker panel, ups point of use units and RV surge protector dog bone type adapters? Hope to own an inverter-genetator in the future but am trying to work with what have now without frying any boards in my TV, microwave, fridge, etc. Thanks!!!
That one is tricky. Surge protectors usually aren't cleaning the power, they're intended to be something more like a "fuse" that reduces the extreme voltages. "Power conditioners" can help to clean up some noise, and it would be interesting to see what the waveform from a generator looks like after passing through one. I'm not sure how much it would help.
There are UPS units that can help a lot with it. They're referred to as "online" models, they are taking the power and making use of it on one side. But on the output side, you are receiving power only from an inverter. it's actually kind of like how the inverter generator works, taking dirty power making use of that, but running it through an inverter to re-produce clean power regardless of what is being fed in.
This style of UPS unit is typically more expensive and nicer, because they're always engaged, always producing clean power, they're just not using the battery to do it until the line power is cut.
In contrast, the cheaper much more common "offline" UPS units, will pass through the existing power (maybe with some surge protection) and only engage the inverter?battery when the power goes above or below a threshold. So with the offline units, you're basically always receiving generator power, until the threshold is reached where it needs to switch over the battery power and cut off the line power.
Search on Amazon for "On-line UPS" One of the first results with the "double conversion" would probably do really well to clean up the power for select "sensitive" devices.
@@Texas_DIY
Thanks Jason, I’ll do some searching.
Hello Jason, very helpful videos. Have you ever considered getting the natural gas kits for these generators or do you not have access to natural gas and this is why everything in your house is electric? I have a 4 ton trane a/c in my house, gas central heating, gas water heater, gas dryer and gas stove. I plan to get a soft start for the a/c. Would I still need 2 of these generators to run the a/c and refrigerator?
Depends on your AC. Not counting the AC, one unit can pretty comfortably run my whole house (Computers, lights, etc.) But add in the AC (particularly heat needing resistive loads, or especially the electric clothes dryer, and that's all out)
If you're mostly gas, you may well be able to get by on one unit. And while you may be able to convert these to gas, you'd probably be better off getting a hybrid unit.
Duromax makes an interesting looking hybrid unit, but the one that looks the absolute best right now, fixes all the shortcomings of both the Duromax and the Predator is the: GENMAX GM9000iED
It has dual fuel, an oil filter, rear exhaust, and can be paralleled to another unit to double the output, but without needing the box. (just plug into the 50a socket on one of the units). And it's made by the same factory that produces the Duromax and the Predator.
If you need a hybrid unit, I'd look seriously at that one.
@@Texas_DIY I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the Duromax's power output was not as clean as the Predator. I wonder how the GENMAX performs.
Hello Jason! Thank you for your videos! I have 2 Duromax xp9000ih gens. and cant find their parallel kits anywhere. Their parallel kit only uses 3 wires going to each gen.. Any idea how I could modify your wiring diagram for that situation? Thank You For Your Time, Mike in DFW
The part number you're needing is: XP9000iH-PK. But it does seem to be out of stock everywhere I spot checked. The only possible way it could be working is by using the ground also as the neutral. (they're bonded anyway). So the wiring would be the exact same, except the white neutral wire would be skipped, and the ground would be used in it's place. Make sure the neutral / ground cable is well secured to the front panel, because there any imbalance in your 240v load will be returning via that cable.
I don't know what the exact shape of the parallel kit plugs are on the XP9000, there are a number of videos here that cover that generator, you maybe able to infer it form those. If the plug shape and spacing are the same as the Predator, then the Power Horse cable would work. (you'd just not use the Neutral, and in the box, the ground would also connect to the neutral terminal for split phase 120VAC)
Though that is site unseen, and guessing. So consult a professional, etc. etc. I'm just a guy on the internet. :-)
Thank You Again for your time and research, Mike
Jason can you share with me how you made the parallel kit and parts also please? I have an all electric home also and am doing the same as you except I can’t find a parallel kit.
Thanks
I have another video that goes into detail regarding it’s construction.
m.ua-cam.com/play/PLzoNthJzzMFQ877vyCfoc53oDQqGFAIKN.html
@@Texas_DIY would you consider making one and I would buy it from you?
@@Texas_DIY or perhaps sell me yours and you can build the next one like you wanted with the RV box. Just thoughts
Does anyone know how easy it is to remove the neutral bond to frame? I am replacing a bigger floating neutral generator that backfeeds my house during storms . I do not want to install a new transfer switch and would like to remove the neutral bond. This will be the only thing this generator is used for..I am hoping it's just a wire to the frame somewhere easy to get to and not coming directly off the lugs of the generator head.
I'm not an electrician, i don't even play one on TV... but I really don't think it would matter either way.
I did come across a video the other day on these (and I don't remember who it was now to credit them) where they discovered that the Duromax's front panel's ground screw had two cables that connected to it from the rear of the panel. Since the HF generator is nearly identical to the Duromax (apart from some spiffy extra features). I'd assume it's probably the same.
One of those two cables (which can be sniffed out with a multi-meter) attaching to the panel ground screw was the frame bonding. So according to that video, it wasn't too crazy of a "thing" to un-bond it. I've elected to leave mine alone as I'd like to use them for other applications, and they're not permanently attached to the house.
A novice here, so please ignore the idiot question. I purchased a Predator 9500 from Harbor Freight with maximum 30 AMP plugin....if I reduce the required load to 30 AMP by closing breakers in my circuit breaker panel , do I need a 40 AMP or above capable generator.?
The generator is able to make the amount of amps that it's designed for. In the case of the predator, it's around 40-ish. The breaker you put on your house as a switch, should be matched to around the max you that the inlet and wiring can handle. The circuits in your house have their own breakers, so the generator breaker is really just being used as a switch, but should also help make sure that you don't exceed too much, what the inlet can handle.
So if you have a 30amp inlet with wiring sized for 30amps, your breaker should also be 30amps. However this limits you.
I would suggest that homeowners install a 50amp inlet, and a 50amp breaker. (this means you can input into the house, up to a max of around 50amps). This allows you to use an adapter, or a cable that adapts, and feed in 30 amps if you just have one generator... but it leaves you with the possibility of putting in more if you were to later, make a parallel kit or buy a larger generator. This way if you need more power, you don't have to rewire your house. The cost difference between a 30amp inlet and a 50amp inlet is insignificant in all this... so why limit yourself? Think of the 50amp inlet as "future proofing" at almost no extra cost.
A 50amp inlet doesn't mean you have to put in 50amps. It's just the max it should handle. If it can handle 50amps, then 30 is no problem.
(Think of it like a car that can drive 50mph max speed... it can still drive 30mph just fine... but a car with a max speed of 30, can't drive 50mph without damaging something. The breakers prevent you from exceeding the max of what the wiring/etc. is capable of handling for the section the breaker is protecting)
Damn it he's the kind of guy you want for a neighbor.
It’s just frustrating that this is not duel or tri fuel. Gas is not sustainable during a hurricane event.
Have you looked at the conversion kits?
Is it true that inverter generators do not suffer the BTU of gas to propane to natural gas?
Thanks
My neighborhood is 100% electric, and I didn't want to deal with the expense and complications of renting a large propane tank, installing a pad for it, and running the lines. With fuel preservative, you can get 1 to 2yrs out of gas, so stocking up in advance is do-able. You just have to be diligent to rotate the stock, or, if it's starting to age too much, put it in your vehicles and refill them.
There are a few people making propane / natural gas conversion kits for other Predator generators, so I'd assume they might have them (or they might cross over) for these.
However if propane is important, you might consider the DuroMax XP9000iH, it's about ~$500 more expensive, but it supports propane, and has a cool auto start/remote start feature. It might be cheaper and less hassle than converting this one over. I don't have any first hand experience with it, but, I'd assume it's power profile would be similar, and it may have the features you value enough to justify the extra expense.
Thank you for the recommendation on Duramax; sounds interesting. In the area where I live; finding a used propane tank 250 gallons is not that difficult they range from $100-$200.
Not a bad idea on the stabilizer storing some gas; that’s pretty prudent. But in the area we live in you could go to weeks without power.
@@greginfla7211 I just bought this Predator. Label on top of unit says you must use stabilizer for warranty coverage. Good idea for any gen because they commonly sit unused for periods.
I bought the 9500 Predator , about a week ago
It would not stay running ?
Did you add oil? They ship without oil, and won't run if the oil is low. (you have to provide the oil, it's not in the packaging) They use almost exactly 1 quart. It will also not run well at all if you don't move the dial from "Start" to "Run".
If you did all that, you might just have a bad unit.
Yes I added oil
How do you have them plugged in to your home???
I hope to have that video done in the next few days. It turned into a much more detailed and comprehensive thing that I intended it to be. But spoiler, go with a 50amp hookup, it will future proof you. And you can still run just one generator with only a 30 amp socket if you like. You'll just need an adapter. If you're home heat, dryer, and water heater run on propane or natural gas, many could potentially get by with just a 30amp hookup... but the cost difference between the two is minimal, so why prevent yourself from getting something larger in the future?
I made the mistake of starting with the 30amp inlet (mainly because I was confused by the seemingly different 50 amp inlet styles) and ultimately had to pull it all out and re-do it when I realized it just wasn't going to be sufficient to accomplish what I wanted. Learn from my mistakes, that's a big part of why I'm making these. :-)
@@Texas_DIY I just put in a 30amp inlet lol 😂 man… you live and you learn right..
@@Texas_DIY That's what I did for my house, 50A with proper interlock. The 30A this unit provides is great with a little planned power management. Can't imagine needing a second generator but it is cool to see running and like you said, house connection is future proofed. BTW, I put my meters on the house side, mounted by the panel. Did the same for my neighbor as well as the Hyper Engineering sure start.
is this easy to convert to propane?
There are people that have kits to do so on other Harbor Freight generators. I'd think it won't be long till one is available for this one.
However if propane is important, you may consider the DuroMax XP9000iH, it's about ~$500 more expensive, but it supports propane, and has a cool auto start/remote start feature. Might be cheaper and less hassle than converting this one over. I don't have any first hand experience with it, but, I'd assume it's power profile will be similar, and it may have the features you value enough to justify the extra expense.
8:32 0.9A starting current? That can't be right.
You know, I didn't even think about it much at all, but yeah, that number seems waaay too low. Even for a small engine.
(I'm not sure how a coil meter reads DC amps, AC I can understand)
@@Texas_DIY I think the meter was just too slow and didn't capture the instantaneous max current. Typically, it should be in the 20-30A or whereabouts. Good video, nevertheless. Thank you.
If this is really a pure sinewave inverter why are the words pure sinewave NOT clearly placed on the box? I have had several inverters and I know that modified sinewave inverters can burn up contractor equipment like fast chargers. The words pure sinewave are very important to a buyer. Because my experience in the past is that if pure sinewave is not stated, it is not pure sinewave. Frying my equipment with a modified sinewave inverter generator is the last thing I want to do. There are a lot of modified sinewave inverter/generators on the market. Buyer beware. Make sure it is pure sinewave before you buy. Timing motors and quick battery chargers can be destroyed by modified sinewave inverters. I thought I saw the words pure sinewave on some predator inverter generator boxes at Harbor Freight months ago. But now when I look I can not find any pure sinewave labels on any predator inverter generators.
It's in the bullet points of the description on the HF website. But I agree, they need to emphasize it more than they are.
HEY KIDS??? I really do NOT think kids will be buying these!!!! Do you think you are better than us????
Go to your room!
Hahaha