90% Don't Know About This Fatal Generator Connection
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- WARNING! Don't make this mistake when connecting a generator to your home. I wanted to save money on a backup generator but this setup could have killed someone. Whole-house backup generators are awesome but very expensive. You can purchase a portable generator for a fraction of the price and with an interlock kit you'll be safe. If you're not used to working with electricity make sure you have a professional install your transfer switch. With the correct backup generator setup, you'll never be without power and still save a bunch of money.
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After the a/c kicked on, you never said how many watts it was pulling. The video was shaking and we couldn't see the answer. Please let us know. My husband and I were waiting for that answer.
@@tvintx9741 It jumped to 7800 watts briefly and then fluctuated around 3800. Sometimes going between 2800 and 5700.
@@HAXMAN you rock for responding to my question!!!!
This is why all grid connected solar panels shut down during power outages.
Unless you have batteries and a disconnect
I was one of your subs who pointed out the interlock issue. As an electrician who has installed many genset systems that is perhaps rule number 1 to keep everyone safe. Shame on the contractor who skipped that rule.
I have to ask the question…what about the neutral? I know transfer switches switch the neutral, but the interlock kit in this video does not switch the neutral. Is it required or not?
@@dt05 As long as your service is properly grounded, no current will pass through the incoming neutral. Electricity always follows the shortest and fastest path to ground and the Gen-plug has a neutral and ground path as well.
I do however recommend a bond wire to the generator. Can't be to careful when it comes to electric and generators.
@@Zappy1210 A "bond wire to the generator"? Not questioning your advice. Rather, trying to learn something. Do you mean running a wire from the ground bar in the panel to the chassis/metal part of the generator? Or if the panel had a external bonding block, could you run a wire from there to a metal part of the generator? Bonding wire size? #10, #8, #6, #4...Like I said, just trying to learn. Any feedback would greatly appreciated.
Skipping the interlock keeps the linemen on their toes.
@@Zappy1210actually it is a risk. If you have a bad neutral to the genset you can back feed power on the neutral. A miswired cord set can do the same thing. Ideally you want a transfer switch but the code allows for the interlock kits. Fixed generators and some large temporary generators require an earth connection.
From a now retired lineman of 30 years this is a much needed video...
But the truth is, you as a lineman work on everything as if it is hot. The risk isn't as great as the alarmists make it out to be. Once you place your grounds, it will trip any rogue home generator that's not configured properly.
The only time a lineman would be subject to harm is if they're not working according to safety guidelines.
@@briansmyla8696 That's true in todays world but not so much 30 years ago. Your right though now days everything is covered in rubber if it can't be killed so easy like a hospital or such. Anything that can be switched around or killed is full of grounds now . The pole tagged as to who is working on it now and some of your 3 phase switch's are even padlocked by the one working on it. It's a lot safer now, even climbing now with two safety belt's so your belted all the way up crossing the cable and telephone lines.
Thanks for your service, when you guys do get around to working you work harder than most. Everyone thinks you guys have all of the safety measures figured out with the 'lectrical, and of course it's much safer work today than decades ago, no doubt. But everyone likes to forget all the limbs that can fall on your heads during late night thunderstorms, and not to mention the danger of line snap.
Your comment did put me in the mind of some crazy lineman showing off to one of his apprentices and touching his tongue to what he thought should be a dead line, right at the moment Haxman was messing with the breakers trying to figure out how to install the interlock safety mechanism LOL
@@Rick-the-Swift I remember we had a former employee that would come occasionally to our safety meeting we would have. He had to prosthetics for hands. He burnt them off trying to correct a mistake he made on a live transformer. That has been years ago but I'll never forget it... Now days they have rubber sleeves and enough rubber up there to choke a mule, and that's a good thing
As a retired Lineman, working storms in Florida 1st thing I did was make note of any engines running when I pulled into an area " ground it or glove it"
What do you mean exactly? My bother is an electrician he's coming to set my generator up this week.
@@stephaniecisneros1003 back feed from a generator has the possibility of going back onto the power line , through the transformer which can produce high voltage on a presumed dead line....drop out disconnects work automatically to prevent this if the emergency generator is connected properly....therefore for Lineman safety as an awareness , we would listen for any engines running while working power outages....locate them and check for back feed...hope this was helpful
Even if you can't hear one they could be running a power wall. Always ground, always. Only remove the ground when hands are off.
Wear proper linesman gloves....and ground your work /equipment before working on the pole. You would think they do that 24/7/365,but.....nope.
So I have solar panels which constantly send power to the grid. But no battery backup or powerwall. Also have a generator. The power company marked the power pole to indicate the solar panels. In this case it seems the need for an interlock device is pointless since your back feeding from solar anyways.
We did the same thing a few years ago with the same duromax gen and we love it! Our electrician installed the interlock switch and it works well. Last year our electric went out in 107 degree weather, our duromax ran our freezers, ac, and kitchen appliances without missing a beat. We turned everything off and then turned on the circuits one by one so we didn’t overload the generator.
Will it run two a/c units (heat pumps)?
@@ltcajh like he said in the video you’d need to figure out your power requirements for the units then find the appropriate size duromax generator for your needs. Our HVAC unit is energy efficient and we have the energy star rated freezers. When we use our generator we turn off all the circuits and then turn our hvac first followed by the circuits for the freezers, kitchen etc.
I worked my entire life in the electric utility industry and I can tell you for certain a home gen set can and will backfeed the system. No, it won't be able to power up the grid, but in a restoration situation there will be many lines broken and on the ground. A home gen set could backfeed a single transformer with its primary lead on the ground. A lineman who is careless could touch that conductor on the ground and easily be killed. We were taught to listen for gen sets and to NEVER handle a conductor on the ground without rubber gloves and grounding the conductor. I can't tell you the number of home gen sets we've come across that were connected incorrectly. This video is an excellent demonstration of the correct way to connect a home generator. The only thing I would add to these instructions is if you have a small generator you would want to turn off all your breakers before connecting the generator. After your generator is connected and running you could then turn on just the circuits you need such as the refrigerator and some lights.
The generator would shut down immediately if this happened from the current draw smfh
@@msnapp169 Which part? A gen set can most definitely back feed a distribution transformer...I've seen it and experienced it in my 40 years in the electric utility industry. How many storm restorations have you been involved with? Also, you can add load incrementally to a gen set until you reach the maximum capacity of the set.
Hey maybe you can answer a question for me then ...my mobile home is basically run off an extension cord by design already so what I did was added a box to the side of the house that is powered by the generator all I have to do is unplug my cord from the grid service line and plug it into the one the generator is hooked up to for instant service without being connected to the grid at all ..do I have to or should I drive a copper stake in the ground and ground both the generator frame and the supply box or is it not necessary and still safe as is ?
but if a home-genset was turned on while the main breaker was on, it would be trying to power the whole neighborhood. it would be immediately overloaded and just cut out.
Hopefully the genset trips. But utility Co may leave home without power for a long time.
I asked a lineman buddy of mine about the generator back feed issue and he replied that the company and crew he works for ground the lines to the utility poles so they don't have to worry about that. Either way its always good to consider everyones safety and more home owners hopefully become aware of potential hazards and issues. Great video!
Yeah, we can't seem to have enough rules for the "stupid is as stupid does" crowd. You would think linemen would check for voltage on the line rather than make assumptions or guesses whether the line is hot or not. Shouldn't that be one of the first things an electrician or lineman does? My Dad was an electrician, and that was the first thing I was taught.... check for power on the line.... and always be aware of the situation and what you are touching ... it only takes one mistake, so take your time and know what you are doing.
@@sonnyh9774 I agree. I work as a inside wireman working on medium voltage systems and we are trained to check for power even if your Forman says it’s okay to work on.
What if the lineman check for power and shows none but 10 min later someone starts up their genrator then what? call his wife?@@sonnyh9774
@@sonnyh9774 They are called "Glow Sticks," and they are used religiously.
And when the Switchmen say it's disengaged, and the Glow Stick shows power?
Yeah, we're going to fry your Genset.
As a high voltage lineman I can tell you that this does not always work. I've gone to more than one funeral because of back feed.
Yes you put your grounds up Yes you do everything you can to be safe and you have your testers on the line and everything is showing no power so you start your repair work only to have some idiot Crank up their generator and back feed the lines while you're up there. Those grounds do not protect you They protect the equipment.
Besides not wanting to fry a lineman, there is another reason why the interlock is a must. If you leave the main breaker on after loosing street power, and then connect and start the generator, when street power comes back on, it is very probable that the phases will be out of sync. These are the sine waves of AC current. This could very easily (and probably ) destroy your generator.
And cause a house fire.
If you leave the main on... you will be powering the entire world... and it would trip your circuit breaker on the generator... OR choke it out completely
*losing
#1 if you tried to back feed the grid with your generator, it would just pop the breaker as the neighborhood would be too much of a load. #2 If the utility was on and you tried to connect a running generator, the out of phase situation would just also cause the breaker to pop. [The generator back feed breaker or the generators own breaker, whichever is less.]
@@markevan1 thank you. I was just about to do that.
All good information. We don't have the same systems here in Australia but could I suggest you get a permanent ink pen and write the procedure on the panel next to the switches in case you are not home when your family might need to use the generator. Also put some concrete blocks down for the generator to rest on. If you need to use it then your garden will probably be soaked and it might settle off level which could affect oil pick up in the engine. Keep up the good work.
Actually my breaker interlock kit came with several stickers to put on the panel and inlet device to give instructions on how to implement the change from utility power to back up genset operation. Great point!
“That was not funny. You did not tell me that was going to happen” 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s so funny
Last year I had my son (he is an electrician) hook a 6 breaker manual transfer box to main panel (R306A Pro/Tran Outdoor 30-Amp 6-Circuit 2 Manual Transfer Switch with L14-30 Power Inlet). I hook up to my 3500 generator and it has no problem. I just choose the six breaker I needed. It pretty much runs every thing except oven and A/C. I like this set up because it’s easy to use and no need for the interlock. It took my son about 45 min to an hour to hook up. As for my generator, it’s gas so I run it for 30 min once a month and I have fuel stabilizer mixed into the gas. I have never had a problem.
Excellent video Sir. We have a small home so I have a Pulsar 6500w dual fuel generator($550) with a 30amp connection to a Reliance 6 circuit transfer switch( $300) and use a 50' 30amp RV extension cord($250). It will run all my essentials. I installed the system myself with the directions and google videos. It took a minute as I wanted to be cautious, but overall it was fairly straight-forward. $1100 + tax in equipment and about 5 hrs total labor including several test runs($500) So I figure about $1800 all in.
If you are starting from scratch (no mods made to your panel) and you don't want a whole-house solution, consider an 8-10 circuit transfer box. This will allow you to use pre-determined outlets, lights, etc. during a power outage. It also means you can get by with a smaller generator. Transfer boxes are simple to use: one switch for each circuit Each switch selects line or generator, preventing back feed to the utility line. If you are handy with your own electricity, they are easy to install. If not, hire an electrician. I would recommend getting a local permit too for your own protection. I installed an 8 circuit Alliance Control Transfer Box. I used wire in conduit from a subpanel in my garage to an outside attachment plug for the generator. I attached the 8 circuits to critical house circuits such as the refrigerator, various outlets and kitchen lights (all are LEDs). I can use an induction stove, I have kitchen lights and the refrigerator keeps working with my 4375w generator. I can also charge batteries. Eventually I will hook up the house heater to a circuit. Our house is heated with natgas, so I need to power a thermostat and a fan. You will need a larger genset if you heat with electricity.
I have a very powerful portable backup generator. I knew nothing about back feed issues and the danger related to them. So I Googled it and it brought me to your video. Fortunately I had a professional electrician take care of the panel work so he installed everything correctly (details in your video confirmed it). Thank you! Subscribed.
One thing to remember with dual-fuel generators is when you run with propane as opposed to gasoline you lose approximately 9-11% of the rated output of the generator. A 5,500 watt generator will only provide around 4,850 watts on propane.
and even less with NG but that's just how it goes.
on my Heron 17HP, with LPG and petrol, I see very similar rating, but house NG it drops down.
Cant you just add a fuel additive to prevent the ethanol stickiness issue?
@@rumorhazzit5339 I use the ethanol free gas for all my small engines. For those that are not used for a long time I run the fuel tank empty. I all so put in the Sta-bil in the fuel just as an added precaution. Have not had any problems with the small engines after that.
Yeah, this is one of those situations where you have to decide what to sacrifice. Other than losing wattage, you lose run time but you also have to refill it more often. With my generator on 50% load, it runs for 9 hours on gas and 7 hours on propane. However, if i'm without power for 24 hours, I would have to go outside and refill the gas tank 3 times. If I hook up a 100lb propane tank, I don't have to do anything. And that tank could even go for about 30 hours before I have to step out to either go refill it or hook up a spare one.
Gas also costs more to run. For that 24hr scenario, I would spend roughly $72 in gas compared to $63 in propane.
So it's all about where you want to make sacrifices.
I liked the "stunt" nephew!
I have the same thing at my house using a dead man plug without an interlock. I haven't had to use it. It is amazing here in Texas that when you message your state congressional rep ERCOT actually fixes stuff. I'll have to get it all done properly one of these days.
Look into a soft start for your a/c unit, It'll make it super easy on your generator at startup from the inrush current. Mine went from 77amps at startup to 19amps.
Look at "EASY-START" my 3 1/2 -Ton went from 112 Locked Rotor Amps to 35 amps. It doesn't change the running amps, but it will keep your generator from tripping when needed.
I did same and with similar results. EasyStart is definitely the way to go with a back up generator. Without it, I could not run the A/C on back up but not an issue now.@@toolchuck
If that is an electric stove, I would be very careful about using it, or just don't use it. You can probably get way with running one burner if you cut back on other loads. Also, that generator may (depending on the size of the AC) run your AC, but again it will take most of the capacity. AND, speaking of AC, I would strongly recommend getting a soft start kit for the AC. That reduces the start up current needed.
Consider portable induction plate(s). They are efficient and with some, you can control wattage. Yes, you will have no oven, but you can efficiently cook meals in something like a Dutch Oven without massive current requirements. I have been using a NewWave Gold single unit before buying our induction stove to see if I like using induction. I ran it for several months. I am keeping it after buying an induction range, because I know it will work well with my Champion 4750w genset.
@@drzman6901 That is a very good idea.
Good for you for providing this info. Just to add... the lineman won't see just the 120v or 240v your generator makes. Those step-down transformers that feed your house are just as happy to "step-up". They will step the gen's voltage up to the line voltage of your neighborhood, albeit with far fewer amps. But it takes as little as 0.1 amps to kill and at line voltage, that's easily done.
yea if you back feed the lines, you can actually power your neighbors houses assuming your generator is powerful enough
First off a lineman would have to forget all of his training to get shocked. They're required to ground everything just like it's a live wire
The next problem is if you did backfeed the lines as mentioned you would send power to everyone on the grid and you would pop the breaker on your generator depending on what they had plugged in or turned on. You're only outputting 50amps and a couple of AC units is enough to trip your breaker.
And of course you would really have a problem if you were backfeeding the grid and the power came back on.
I did the exact same journey with a very similar generator and can run most of my house- especially hvac! My electrician did install the kit to force the breakers to disconnect from the grid, unlike your electrician and if he hadn’t I would’ve never remembered how to engage generator power which could have been really bad. I need to video myself switching over because it isn’t always easy in the dark of night. My electrician also moved the things on my internal breaker box to essential parts of the house I could run. The system works great.
Great video! Happy to know I’m not a complete moron for doing the same thing regarding a generator.
Please, be aware. After you have start your portable generator before you flip on the generator main breaker, always unload your main panel before and put back one by one each breaker. It help the generator and also it is written in the manual. Read it 😊
I noticed that too. I also cringed when he said lets see what all can be ran on this generator. Personally, I think you should find out what each device amp draw is and the surge it will create such as the outside compressor. Generators will take a surge beyound its rating but will shorten the lifespan. Some homes have electric water heaters, electric stoves. You want to keep breakers off that are too much amp draw for the model. Also need to know what appliances, lights, outlets are using what bar from the panel. The right or the left. That will help you know what you can and maximize what you can run. You may find out you have to move a toster over to a different outlet that uses the right electrical bar instead of the left. A good electrician should go over all that with you
Australian here. I haven’t seen the mechanical interlocks here. Tend to see dedicated changeover (main) switches used in conjunction with the generator inlet. This manual switch also isolates the incoming neutral on changeover to mitigate potential back feed. Can also be automated if desired i.e. switch over to generator on loss of mains voltage, presumably same as your $12,000 option 😅. Some people make suicide leads and plug straight on into an outlet lol. Upshot of it all for line crews here is the same as in US - test, ground or glove! Great work man. Keep up the awesome content! 😊😎🇦🇺
not only can you kill a lineman but if the generator is running and plugged in and the power comes back on your generator will explode and burn. you must have a transfer switch or a main breaker interlock lock out. this way you can only have one or the other not both at one time. good video for people new to generator hook up .
As an aircraft mechanic in the AF for 13 years so far...electricty still scares me. The sh!t is straight up magic and terrifying
Duuuude.... I'm totally in that same boat. Electricity confounds me like nothing else.
Agreed. But I was more scared of hydraulic and gas pressure, especially when servicing struts.
@@richieanderson6605 I've seen some pics of what can happen to you hand if a hydro line fails, not pretty. I'm just an engine mechanic so not really worried about hydro destroying me too much.
@@brandon7219 ah, got ya. I was an F-15/F-16 crew chief.
@@richieanderson6605 thanks for your service man. I’ve been on RC-135s, TF-34s (A-10 engines), and currently on B-1s.
Consider adding a small solar panel with a trickle charger for your battery on the generator. If you forget to shut the battery switch off you will drain the battery. I learned this the hard way. ( Test start the generator at least once a month) Good times!!
Thanks for the tip!
Good call.
Oh man thanks. Checking now!
There’s also the issue of the gasoline degrading. Need fuel stabilizer and rotate your supply of emergency gas (if you’re not pulling it from you car…)
Always test the generator under a load or you will lose the residual voltage in the coil and it will not build up voltage when you need it. Remove the load before shutting the generator off or you will again lose the residual voltage.
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Good Video Haxman. The one thing seldom mentioned in these interlock videos is the fact that normal generators are set up as "Bonded Neutral" as to be safe on job sites or portable use. When set up as you (and I) did, the generator MUST have the bond broken, making it a "Floating Neutral" unit. Simple to convert by removing the ground to neutral jumper wire behind the alternator cover but then the unit should not be used as a standalone generator without causing serious potential safety issues. This can be confusing, which is why I think it is often not mentioned but curious if your units were/are "floating neutral" generators.
Even for inverter generators?
Nice video, I have seen some really stupid connectors used by others. Your use of interlock and female connector on the plug is admirable.
That generator has a neutral and ground bonded internally which should be disconnected when using for home backup since you home will have its own neutral-ground bonded.
Good job on getting proper interlock 👍
Thank you, I’ve been told you can put a switch in your panel for that. Something I need to do.
My generator is bonded, and I didn't want to monkey with it - void your warranty. I left the ground wire of the four conductor cable disconnected at the generator plug to "debond" it.
Disagree with disconnecting the grounded connection. It does no harm connected! As for the neutral, there would be zero current in the neutral from the generator if the CB is in the OFF position. Why disconnect it and then forget to reconnect....This is a non-issue.
@@jstone1211National Electric Code disagrees with that statement.
You may also have issues with AFCI and GFCI breakers having it bonded in both places.
This is absolutely a problem. Your service should only be bonded in one spot, at first point of disconnect, i.e. your main breaker in your panel. Bonding the neutral and ground in another location will create Objectionable Currents which is a no-no, see NEC 250.142.
That fake shock you did was hilarious! Well worth you being in the doghouse with the wifey for the weekend. 😂😂😂
In the Navy when using emergency power - we connected source to load and unconnected load to source. Then utilized the no/off switch. We never had to handle a 'live' electrical cable. The effect was that this the only thing being powered up, at the time. As a load hits the generator there would be a slight drop in the 60 cycle hertz as it took that load up, then the governor would recover. Disconnecting worked the opposite way, as the load decreased the hertz would increase a little. Could turn off all the breakers when you turn off the main. Connect the generator, start the generator, then turn on the circuits (breakers) you want to energize. This should result in less wear and tear on the genset.
Great information! That stunt at the beginning is too funny. Unfortunately, the Mrs. didn't appreciate it. I loved it.
I don’t know what to say?
Shocking how easy you made it look 👍
There I said it 😂
😉
Completely appreciate your humor! You have a great set up and have me thinking of getting rid of my 10k has generator to a quieter inverter generator.
I can't believe 9000 watts is running your AC and other appliances. Good Job! Just make sure you have a stock full of gas 💨 if you're running the Jenny close to 100%
That is a very simplified, yet safe, cut off. Thanks!
Hey Haxman, if you cycle high use stuff like water heaters, we’ll pumps, etc, you’ll be ok. My beat up body said no more portable after we lost power two weeks during hurricane Isabel. It devastated the grid here in VA, in our area, 99% of every home and business in our county of 350,000 people had no power, including gas stations. I had to siphon gas, etc. turning the generator off at night was a pain too. . A real hassle and if it rained or stormed, ugh!. I see why you went that way, 22kw whole house was just under $12,000 you mentioned. I’m 63 and have no kids so spending money on things I could never afford growing up, lol
This pertains to nothing that relates to me but I sure enjoyed watching every minute of this video and learned a thing or two. Thank you.
I bought my T07571 Tri-Fuel in 2020 for the hurricane season. I got to use it for the first time for the Texas Freeze, again later when we lost power from over 2000 lightning strikes hitting the grid in the Houston area and a few more times. I run it on NG. I installed a Propane Elbow Adapter at the generator's 3/8" POL fitting. It is a 3/8" Female Flare Swivel x 3/8" Male Flare (Item # 204163) that I purchased from etrailer.. Then I installed the 3/8" Female x 1/2" Male brass adapter there. Now it is easy to store the 1/2" NG hose on top of the tank. I connect power from the 30A 240V outlet to the panel and am able to use my 4-ton A/C unit. I installed is a Micro-Air EasyStart 368 (4-ton) Soft Starter on the outside A/C unit. My A/C unit now has a Start Peak of 33 to 36 Amps.
Trying to line up the cable plug with the inlet at night? Take a marker or white-out and make a line on the plug & socket to line up the two before you twist it. Keep battery charged. Install emergency lights that come on when power goes out. Install them where you set up the generator and at the panel. Have an extra spark plug.
As a backup, I have two 1408Wh and two 666Wh power stations, and eight 100W rigid solar panels which I made into four suitcases to set up in the back yard.
I live in houston as well . Can i ask the cost of NG to keep the generator running thru the storm . Thanks alot
We did the same thing last month. Peace of mind and safely done. Great video.
I don't know about every generator, but, when I fired mine up for the first time I had to adjust my rpm on the generator to get 240 volt. As the rpm changes so does the output of the voltage. I only use this generator for back up power so I lock my throttle is the position that reaches 240 volts. I check it every time I start it up with a Fluke 789 meter as my generator does not have a readout. Very good video.
Good idea. Mine puts out 107 VAC instead of 120..maybe it just needs more throttle..
Can't believe it was $12k to purchase and install. We got a Kohler 12kw installed for about $6k right at the very beginning of Covid. Something you probably already know, but the dual fuel models tend to lose about 10% power when running on propane due to energy density. So unless your 9kw penny was a 10kw model to begin with, it's now about 8kw. Something to keep in mind.
A large chunk of that 12k (for me at least) was the gas line.
The install without the gas line work was around 9kish.
The problem is that for the generator we got, unless it's pretty much right next to the gas meter, you're going to have to use 1 1/4 gas pipe, which is *not* standard around here. Having that size pipe also means a new gas meter.
Of course, your mileage may vary, and none of this means anything if you're using propane instead of natural gas (though in that case the install price should be lower).
@@vancomycinb1193 That makes a bit more sense. We just run off a 120 Gallon propane tank.
Yeah. Vehicle’s we’re also cheaper to. Everything is double! I was quoted 10.5k for a 12k Generic installed in Michigan. That’s ridiculous.
If an electrician forgot that important part they should be coming back to fix the mistake. Look, everyone makes mistakes.
Now, if he refuses to come back to fix the mistake then the authorities need to be contacted and his license revoked.
Excellent demonstration on how to run the generator.
I wasn't aware that a generator of that size could run an air conditioning unit for a house. Especially that amount of ton.
2800 w = 11A on his 3.5 ton
@@dfx7105I was told a 3.5 ton a/c needed 15 kw generator.
I've been cheap my whole life seeing how I'm a professional farmer hence I have more brains than money so I don't really have a choice in the matter 🤣
I wired up our business and home for backup generators with outdoor transfer switches (aka double-throw safety switch). I switched from using our 25kW & 50kW PTO-driven generators to the smaller portable gas versions because diesel fuel has gotten so darn expensive.
I also have a 2-year associates degree in engineering (2 year transfer degree for BS ... never transferred) and a AS in electrical engineering technology so it's safe to say I have a solid understanding how the electrical system works.
Interlock kits suck when compared to using a transfer switch. A transfer switch is fool-proof and simple to install but the downside is the prices of the indoor boxes are now $400 - $600 and the outdoor versions are $1,000+ which is some serious price gouging if you ask me. I got mine for around $150 (outdoor) so I guess I lucked out 😜
Basically, the 2-pole 200 amp transfer switch has the generator & mains power wired into the top & bottom with the service panel wired to the center and never shall the two power sources every meet hence no one is in any danger. The best part is how simple it to switch between the two power source by either flipping the large handle switch up or down. Putting it in the locked out center position disconnects all power and it's the only way to can open the switch box to boot.
The funny part about this is we had a lineman once warn us about back-feeding our 50kW tractor driven generator and I tried to explain how that wasn't physically possible with a transfer switch but I'm not sure he understood because then he made the stupid ass statement that if he had a generator and tractor setup he'd tell the power company to go screw themselves and generator his own power. I then proceeded to explain how 9 days of PTO-generated power for our farm cost us more than $1,000 worth of diesel fuel and this was back in the early 90s. Needless to say, this guy wasn't to smart which was eye-opening and scary 😁
keep in mind here. you must have a service meter and a separate house load panel
I have a 5500w Duramax that I use. But, during an outage, all I need to run is the heater circulation motor, refrigerator, and a couple of lights (at night). The arrangement of my panel doesn't allow use of a mechanical interlock so, I have to turn off the main breaker first. When shutting down, I have to disconnect the generator and cables, then turn the main back on. I don't have enough space for a power inlet so, I use the RV receptacle and that requires a male/make cordset, which is a big "no-no" but, since I am the only one doing this generator task, I have to follow the sequence of connecting and disconnecting every time. Eventually, I will do it "right" and install a power inlet and figure out some kind of interlock. :) Thanks for a good video!
When the power is out, and you forget to shutoff the main, it will overload your little generator instantly because it’s trying to send power to the whole neighborhood.
LOL that really startled me when put your hand in there and made noises. Thumbs up!
That missing interlock was unsafe for multiple reasons. For example, if the main and the genset breaker were both on and the genset not connected, that male plug on the genset inlet would be live - a shock hazard right there on your wall.
I've got an interlock to install on my main panel. But the panel is full and has big breakers already in the top spot that are chore to relocate.
@@liffy8333 Agreed. The job is bigger when the breakers that need relocated are 100amp, the panel rating requires them at the top, the panel cannot accept any more tandem breakers and it is cramped space. It's a chore but I can do anything your "qualified electrician" can do.
Get around that by installing a transfer switch. Safest way to connect a generator to your service panel. It's literally impossible to backfeed your incoming service with a transfer switch.
@@aspensulphate Get around what? It's equally impossible to backfeed your incoming service with an interlock. I'm talking about an interlock in my main panel which will enable powering my entire house (while of course also protecting the utility).
The only way a transfer switch could do that and "get around" my panel issues is if I pulled the meter and either did a meter mounted transfer switch or replaced the meter base or my main panel. Either way requires a utility inspection requiring potentially multiple days without power.
That shock scene was hilarious 😂😂😂😂
Fantastic video! By the way, you and I have the exact same inverter generator. DuroMax just released a 16KW version of the same inverter generator, which should be enough to run just about any home.
I have already figured out how to do that with my own house But it was way more complicated than that little system thank you save me a lot of time and work.
I made a cable with a male connector on each end. I do not recommend others doing it, obviously. But it works great for me; I'm an EE and am *extremely* careful in my procedure. Having been doing this for 20 years, and works very well. Again, don't do this at home, kids.
9000 should be plenty fine to run just about everything, but the point of the "emegency backup" is for emergencies to run mission critical stuff. take it from someone who's lived off these in central texas a handful of times.
You should get a soft start for your a/c it will cut the start up amps by 65 to 75 percent it will be alot better for your generator
Only if the unit is old and you need to get a little more life out of the unit. While it will help the generator a soft start wears out the motor windings of the compressor unit. Either get a larger generator or install some low amp draw window units is better
If the power goes out and you are the only person with power on your block, suddenly, you become a beloved and precious, honored neighbor. ❤
This is exactly why interlock kits aren't allowed here. We use a centre off isolation switch, one direction is mains, the other side is generator. No chance of any backfired onto the grid.
Our generator inlets have to be 4' off the ground minimum in case of flooding and have to be via a fully waterproof inlet plug with a mechanical latch so you can't accidentally unplug it
Wait, why is the interlock not allowed? (And where are you? Not that it matters.) Interlock seems better than nothing (which is what someone I know got from their electrician!). Thx
@@mr_tom_1_0 I don't know where this poster is located, but some locations have stricter code, such as California. A generator power transfer switch like the comment reference is a much better solution.
I love my Duramax generator! The regulator was junk in cold weather for propane, but the generator has been an excellent backup with the duel fuel option. Wired it up to a 30 amp reliance transfer switch.
I love your videos and have "borrowed' many of your solutions for use at my homestead , but this is one of the few things I have to disagree with you on. Having had both the manual setup and the automatic setup, I'll spend the extra money on the full Generac, or manufacturer of your choice, solution. Playing with generators and hookups in the middle of the storm is not safe. When the power goes off, the generator senses it, starts up, and switches over. When the power comes back, the generator senses it, cuts back over to mains power, and shuts down. It will even activate if we just lose one phase of the mains. I never worry about my wife having to play with the generator if I'm not home or sump pumps, security and other critical gear not operating when no one is home. Here in The People's Republic of Illinois,where our electric grid was installed by Edison himself, we average about 6 outages a year with some of them lasting several hours. I spend about $50 a year to maintain it (oil changes, air filters and spark plugs). The cost was well worth the safety and peace of mind it gives me.
I got a 4000w 120v generator for $500, I switch manually, and I tie both phases together in the jumper cable. You have to switch off the main and switch off any 220v loads to be sure nobody uses them. In my house its only the dryer and the stove, so no big loss. I even got a 110v hotplate to substitute for the stove. You don't need a super power generator during outages. Enough for the fridge, lights and a TV will do it. I can even run a window A/C off mine. The difference is I paid a fraction of what you did. I used to pay for ethanol free fuel to keep the generator in standby. After 3 Gavin Newsom power outages, I changed to draining all fuel after an outage from the generator and putting it in my truck. Now on power outage I go fill a gas can at the local station and repeat as required. Way cheaper and the "special" fuel had a habit of disappearing from the stores during outages.
I'm in N. CA. Where can get ethanol free fuel?
@@garyrds airport gas
Enjoy your content and always look forward to each video. But I bring you bad news, informing everyone that this type of interlock kit is required is an excellent public service to keep utility workers safe, but your installation is still incorrect, as are 99% of interlock videos. The breaker used to energize your panel during generator operation requires a Hold Down Retainer kit. Your particular panel would require a Eaton BRPHD2
Excellent point!!
you meant well and all, but his is not the plug on neutral panel (PON), so he needs the older hold-down. while it's required by code, it's function is to keep some "fool" from moving the breaker around easily and causing a back feed or power inlet pins from becoming live.
Two questions, Why did you install a 50amp inlet box not a 30amp box. And did you install a soft start on your AC?
Buy a magnetic dip stick for that generator, i have the exact same generator and i put one on it and it has caught a fair bit of metal powder while the engine has broken in. Also, you are going to need to remove the neutral/ground bond that is behind the panel of the generator (it is right behind the ground post), there is a neutral/ground bond already in the house's panel and when you connect the generator to the house there is only supposed to be 1 neutral/ground bond for safety reasons, if there is a ground fault the current can split between the multiple points if they exist (the generator's neutral/ground bond and the house's neutral/ground bond)
if you use the generator as a stand-alone unit (not connected to the house) you can make a neutral/ground bond that you can plug and unplug using the custom plug that came with the generator, if you don't the GFCIs on the front of the relay will trip if you connect any 3 prong 120V loads to the generator
I always do short order oil changes with new equipment. It's crazy how much contamination is in new engines
I would prefer a generator power transfer switch to this setup, and removing the bonded ground is not required with a transfer switch setup.
Much appreciated I was looking to add this same setup. Right on brother. Too nad an electrician failed you... "That boy ain't right"
Yeah on an air conditioner when you lose main power to the unit the outside unit circuit board will not come back on for 10 minutes when power is restored. That is to prevent a locked rotor on the compressor because you would already have high Freon pressure with the compressor. If it was to come on immediately after it shut off it would tend to lock up. 10 minutes is the usual time for a reset on most air conditioners.
Thanks for the info!
I think the 10 minute delay is due to LRA generating heat in the windings so the time delay will allow the motor windings to cool down. Refrigerant pressures are controlled via pressure switches.
I installed a Reliant 6 circuit transfer switch. Easy peasy, and it keeps everyone safe!
Be very careful when a portable gen is placed near windows. Make sure they are airtight. CO poisoning kills. Best if you can locate the gen away from the house.
By law here you have to have 15' from all windows and door openings. They made me replace a double hung bathroom window with a solid window before it would pass inspection.
By "away from the house", it should also be far enough away that if the generator unit catches fire, it won't burn the house as well.
Wow, you've really convinced me of not only the ease of doing that sort of 'hook up / cutting on / cutting off in a hurricane, but also educated me on the durability of that very expensive generator in the case of EMD pulses. I love the idea of playing with high voltage in a driving rainstorm! Thanks. Also love that your entire house panel is outside in the elements as well! Most reliable set up ever!
Thank you for your informative vídeo! I have a question: Does your panel have bonded neutral and ground wires? How do you proceed with the outlet installation? Did you bond the outlet’s neutral and ground wires?
You should research the Sandia diode which will hopefully help protect devices against EMPs. Diodes are used in nearly all electrical devices and it sounds like the sandia diodes are better all around (as long as they reach their target record for the research) so once they are scalable we should see most electronics have the capability of protecting itself
Ferrites around the feeds along with a whole house surge suppressor will manage most situations.
EMP's! PPFFTT! 🙄🤪
Lightning strikes are a whole lot more likely than EMP and indistinguishable from them in practice. Standard lightning protection is all you need.
We had a generator my electrician uncle set up with a fantastic "pig tail" hook up to the main grid of our home. About 3 years later we had another hurricane, and my dad hooked it up, and somehow forgot to throw the breaker off, and we had a crew of some very ticked off electricians banging on our door wanting to know who almost killed their guy working the line...wasn't fun, but really taught us a lesson. We definitely should have had that safety plate put in.
LINEMan died during Katrina from generators.
@@williamevans6522link please. Urban legend
Thanks. I really like this unit. FYI to all... A 100-gallon propane tank will last 1-2 days, while a 500-gallon tank can last 7-10 days. At $2.30 / gallon for propane it will cost about $120 + per day to run this generator on propane. In addition, the peak wattage on this unit with propane is 8550 and running watts 7200. If there is an extended outage, how does one get a large propane tank refilled? I would also keep plenty of gas around for extended emergencies. Every house should have a 50amp bypass Interlock set up no matter what.
Totally agree, I've used mine so many times in the last few years its more then paid for itself and all the work and materials I bought. I did all the work myself which saved me a ton. I'm a hero every time the power goes out lol.
I would go a step further on having gasoline on hand and say have another smaller generator as a backup for critical appliances or medical devices.
Your math is a bit off. I have the 13kw duromax and I ran mine for 7 full days non stop (except for oil changes) and used about 7% of the 250gal tank. That comes out to 38 gal/day
I can run about 3-4 days with a 100 lbs tank. (The longer timeframe during cold winter).
Best to use propane is a great idea. Easier and safer fuel to store -that doesn't degrade.
You loose some power output with propane over gas though so that may be an issue for some. I run gas and run the carb dry after use and pump out the gas if its going to set for a long time. I once did let it set with gas and it didn't want to start with the stale fuel so I hooked up propane and started it with that then switched over to gas and it ran and burned out all the old gas thank goodness. I've been running it dry ever since.
@@jstar1000 Yes
@@jstar1000 I just ran our generator after it has set for a long time, because there was maintenance in the area causing a 7 hour power outage. I had to spray some starting fluid in the motor via the spark plug hole before it would start. It also was surging for a while, but started running correctly after it ran for about 20 minutes. This is a gasoline only portable generator, and it definitely is not good to leave them sit for a long time, like I did, without starting them. Unfortunately, we do not get many power outages, and I just do not think about it.
@David-rx5eo yeah it's easy for that to happen, I bought a fuel line locking clamp and clamp it on and run the carb dry as I don't have a fuel shut off.
@@David-rx5eo "Unfortunately, we do not get many power outages". LOL. Come to Nevada, then!
Another great benefit of those outdoor connection boxes is that they provide a nice, dry home for all the dirt dauber wasps!
Please, please do not power on and connect the generator cord to inlet first. At 8:22 you had the generator side of the cord in your hand with full mains power. You could of had a bad shock, or worse.
Great video. Thank you. Do you need to ground the generator to a grounding rod?
A soft start device on your a/c would help the generator not work to hard.
Yes. I need one.
That's what we did. Added soft start
Can it hurt the compressor or make it not start? I had an A/C that was old that needed a hard start kit added to run.
Think about a transfer switch. There are even double pole double throw contractors that would work just fine for your application.
I just said this about installing a generator power transfer switch before I saw your post.
great minds think alike
I done mine with a dedicated line into my home. I use no household wiring whatsoever. Yes, I use extension cords that are short in length & as thick as possible. The thinnest I got is 10 ga.
The only items I run are fridge (7.2 amp), chest freezer (4.5 A), furnace (9.5A) or well pump (8 A 240V).
I may be wrong here and there is absolutely no criticism of this excellent video and I just want to address some general misconceptions about "inverter" generators.
The traditional generator actually produces a more "pure" sin wave than any inverter generator. The only trouble is that because it is mechanical it doesn't respond to loads anywhere near as quickly as the inverter so you get those fluctuations where your light flicker, etc.
Low frequency inverters like the Victron solar inverters, etc, are the best of both worlds but are very expensive.
What we now commonly call "inverter generators" are like a solar system and generally run a high efficiency, high frequency alternator that is converted to DC and then converts it much like an MPPT charger connected directly to a high frequency inverter via largish capacitors in place of the battery.
These have improved much over the years but can be prone to catastrophic failure but the good news is that they mostly fail open circuit so they don't fry all your gear.
The one real issue is that the cheaper ones can cause short circuit on the AC change over during the cycle (a very well know issue amongst cheap battery powered inverters) and THAT can destroy any gear that is connected.
Why am I saying all this?
If you are going to use an inverter generator, make sure you have good house and contents insurance.
Less expensive manufacturing costs combined with marketing hype proposing that these inverter generators are somehow better than the traditional ones makes for an incredible increase in profit margins and to our benefit also lowers the overall price.
It has nothing to do with better.
My Honda GX390 traditional 5500kVA supplies a much more pure and stable supply than my 2200kVA inverter generator ever has. It just burns a lot more fuel and makes a LOT more noise.
@garth: how are you measuring /checking the better sine wave on a non-inverter? Did you hook an oscilloscope?
@@deepsleep7822 Nothing that flash. The differences are very noticeable just with our built-in human senses combined with how much equipment that has been needed to replace the stuff that lost it's magic smoke.
Most of my lighting is LED and as you may know most of them have very bad power factor compensation in their built in power supplies, even from good brands like Mirabella and Osram. ANY very minor fluctuations in main power supply are delivered dramatically by these lights. Once it gets beyond that some of my computer equipment will reset itself.
I frequently use Multimeters to check the voltage and even that is enough to make your eyes go wide. An oscilloscope would be nice to play with but is largely irrelevant in this case.
✌️😜 Always informative, but with a well needed dose of Laughter 😂 Thanks Brother 💒⚔️ God Bless us All 🇺🇸🙏✝️
Exactly the video I wanted to see since my new Micro-Air soft-start devices arrived today for my 1.5 and 5.0 ton A/C units. Among the many benefits, they reduce the initial amp surge required by approx 75% on average, requiring much more reasonably sized generators. I’m looking at similar units to yours now but as you illustrated at the beginning, we paid our home builder to put in all of the infrastructure for a generator but not the generator itself and we have the same issue in our breaker box. I guess I thought that there was a separate cutover switch instead outside near the meter. Is that a thing?
Great video. Thanks.
Usually you just have the whole house breaker outside to cut all the power for your house but no panel box that can be connected to. I just happen to have a panel outside because of my well and my Mom's addition. That made my setup a little easier.
Just installed the Micro-Air 368 on my 3 Ton HVAC unit. Inrush amps dropped from 63 to 23. The main 200 amp breaker is located outside in a panel by itself with a 90 amp breaker which feeds the pool equipment. The outside panel feeds the distribution panel in the garage which is just a sub panel to feed all the circuits in the home. I did the same thing with the home builder so now all I need is the generator, 30 amp cable with 14-30 connections to hook up to the home and probably 4 propane tanks. Looking at the either the DuroMax or Champion dual fuel inverter. 9000 watts starting and it claims to be able to do 6500 watts running. That should be enough to run the HVAC plus frig and freezer with some left over for lights, etc. Having the whole house HVAC is a big deal here in South Florida. We were out 8 days after Hurricane Ian in 2022.
Great video and very important to get it setup safely thank you.
I only watched out of curiosity and YES, YOU SCARED ME!!! I felt an instant adrenaline rush. 😳😊
I'm not 100% certain, but you may need to be careful on the final location of the generator when you're running it. Due to carbon monoxide. The roof eve's window and door locations as you need to be a certain distance away.
So you know, propane doesn't give off carbon monoxide but rather CO2 and water vapor. And for an outdoor application it of no concern. What can be a problem is if used to supply a heat source in a structure, house, mobile home , camp trailer or camper on the bed of a pickup truck it needs to have a fresh air source. This is to prevent oxygen depletion, and that can be fatal!
The exhaust heat is my concern. Look at the dry vegetation. In a storm everthing is wet so it'll be fine.
@@paulstaney325 Propane *can* create carbon monoxide. It's less of a problem than with gasoline since propane burns cleanly across a broader range of mixtures. The biggest issue is with any recirculation of the exhaust CO2 back into the intake, where the chance of emitting CO goes way up.
Generac and Briggs and stratton both call for at least 5 feet distance from any house openings: windows, doors, crawl spaces, attic louvers, or anywhere exhaust can enter the house.
The reason to use "pure sinewave" generators (and battery UPS units) for electronics is the inexpensive (non pure sineware) inverters create stair-stepped sine waves. Each individual step creates high frequency harmonics that cause havoc with digital electronic devices. With more and more consumer appliances using digital control boards, the possibility of appliances not working or being damaged by dirty generators/inverters is getting greater.
Inverter units are great for smaller loads and sensitive equipment. However they are not for large loads. It's why they are not available for larger capacity currently. We had a neighbor who wired up his house to a Duramax genset, and tried to run everything. Of course voltage from generator went down and current inversely went up. It cost him 28000.00 for new HVAC, Appliances and new load center.
He has a 22kw standby now.
Understand what the technology is meant for and it's limitations.
about a decade ago, you could buy guvment military surplus generators at auction. I won a 10kw, actually more like 20k, 4 pole, 1800 rpm, 4 cylinder onan diesel 1200lb. generator for under $1k. a real beast, almost no hrs. Cost to tax payers in 2023 dollars, $94,500. thanx guv.
@@eyeh8theleft A military genset will be wildly under-rated. Its rating will be for continuous load, continuous use in the worst environment.
A consumer portable generator will have a wildly exaggerated rating. The 'big' number will be for an instantaneous peak, sometimes as brief as a half cycle. That's not even long enough to start a typical motor (refrigerator or pump), which typically has a starting capacitor switched in for a half second (30 full cycles at 60 Hz). The continuous number will be for optimal conditions: cold, dry air at sea level.
6:07
I dunno man, all this long dry grass under/around an engine looks like a southern fire hazard just waiting to start a wildfire
1) Put a battery tender on your generator battery. These batteries are always dead when people need them. 2) Don't handle the power cords when the unit is running. Plug everything in when the unit is NOT running. Yes, I saw you flip the breaker, but what if the breaker was accidentally in the ON position. No need to handle a 50 amp cord with 50 amps on it if you don't need to. 3) Have extra oil on hand for an extended outage. Rule of thumb on oil changes is every 50 hours if it does not have an oil filter and every 200 hours if it does have an oil filter. So potentially you need to be changing your oil every 2 days or so.
I come for the knowledge but stick around for the shenanigans 😀👍🏽
The same exact thing happened to me. I hired an electrician, and he didn't move the existing breakers or install the interlock. I've done plenty of wiring over the years and the only reason for hiring a licensed electrician was to have 100% code. 😤
I soO much appreciate the tips and good advice. “An interlocking kit”. Got it! 👍
Next you need some Lifepower4 batteries and an inverter/charger, so you can use the genny (and/or the grid) to charge the batteries, and have the batteries power the house through the inverter. That way you won't need to run the genny constantly as you need power and save some big bucks on propane.
And then eventually add solar panels to the system and suddenly you're off grid!
I’d love to
Long term project👍
In the UK we use a 3 position generator change over switch which has a safety mechanical interlock built in.
1:Grid supply
0:off
2:Generator supply
Good to see how other countries do this though…
Thank you
Here is a thought about the savings in Money between the Portable Generator and the Permanently installed Backup Generator. This video should be a Major clue as a reason to spend the money and get the Permanently installed model. Look at the first reason which would be the Power goes out. It is usually raining/storming outside when this happens. Now, watching this video and seeing everything that he has to do to get the Portable Generator setup just to power the house, imagine doing all of that while it is Raining/Storming outside. He had to push his generator outside up a hill which would all be mud, he had to make all the gas connection and all the electrical connections. Next he has to disconnect his main electrical disconnect which again would be in the rain and play with the other breaker and the interlock. The other thing he forgot to show is that the Portable Generator is supposed to have a separate Grounding wire that runs from the frame to the house ground (not just through the plug). Also, you forgot the most important thing with a Permanent Generator, which is Automatic Starting and Automatic Transfer Switching, which imagine loosing power and your not home to come home to a flooded basement because your sump pump didn't have power to turn on or all the food in your Refrigerator/Freezer went bad after you came home from a Vacation or whatever. Last question, If your not home, is your Wife going to know how to set up and perform all of these steps to get power, or will she just get to sit in the dark until you get home?
You should learn grammar
I jumped i thought he was getting shocked 😂😂😂
Awesome of explaining the DO''S & DONT'S. Well DONE.👍
I have a Generac system that cost under 10000 including the 250 gallon propane tank. I have had the system for 1 year so far and I only used 10% of te fuel in my tank. I love the idea of power almost instantly when needed. No messing with portable generators that may or may not start in an emergensy. I dont have too worry about my home when I am away and I can be sure that all my refrigerators and freezers are on 24/7. Well worth the expense.
Your beardless body double! I was wondering what was going on before you swapped places.
You are killing it today!
Crossing fingers that your humor helps the wife feel better about my doing this project, on my own. I've done other electrical but I figured if I do it but not make the final connections until our neighbor, who is certified, checks it out, she'll be happy. Live in a township, so no goverment to worry about. Thanks for your great video! The way your wife acted at the spoofed electrocution I feel your probably like me. Worth more dead than alive with life insurance. lol.
I bought the same generator to replace a small unit that I had. I'm glad I did. The old generator was not a inverter generator, and for that reason over time I lost a lot of electronics including a refrigerator, television, and a computer. You can get away with a non-sine wave generator but not for very long. So I made the choice to go with the 9000 inverter, well worth the investment . I'm curious to know if you disconnected the internal neutral grounding strap? depending on how you set it up you will have to disconnect that strap internally in the generator. It's not very hard to do but it potentially will keep you alive.
I experienced a great deal of deja vu there.
Not only have I done the getting shocked prank, I did it to my cardiologist's nurse when she fitted a tracker to me!
😂
Oh, no! I have given you evil ideas!
Bad Nash, very bad Nash!!!!
Did she slap you???
@@dennisgoans701 I don't feel that you actually think she slapped me. I think you want to know her reaction, instead.
She showed great concern and then we had a good laugh. When I was leaving, she was laughing with the other people at the front desk. She told me when my next appointment was and said, "See you then, trouble!"
My wife was with me and accused me of flirting as a joke. I think my wife would have fake smacked me if I had pulled that prank on her.