Interesting combination, it looks like an EXTREMELY easy civ in terms of economy but quite difficult in army management, you cannot get distracted, you must heal units, etc. I love it.
I agree this is a low micro, high micro civ, and accordingly, it's probably not that easy to play. I think the 1 star difficulty rating does not reflect the challenge with winning with them
@@hughroe8598 it depends on how you see it. It is probably easier than English to play per se, what makes this evaluation questionable is that one thing is be able to learn it at a basic level (beat the hardest AI for example) another thing is to play it well competitively. I suppose we will have our answers in a few months after playing it for a while.
@@hughroe8598I’m still low elo and decently new (been playing age 2 for like a year and age 4 for a few weeks) but I currently have 100% win rate with OotD in ranked and they took me straight to gold 3. I find them to be the easiest civ and the hardest civ for us newer players to counter. Their powerful armies early game in feudal/early castle are just too strong for most players to defend and the slower unit production feels totally made up for by the increased eco speed Its castle age landmarks are both insanely good. You can rush the monestary and go straight for relics / sites and just become unstoppable with basically unlimited gold or go for the barracks x2 and wipe their base with a mixed army Every single military unit they have feels strong so as long as you are building the right units it feels like I can defend anything and my units feel invincible when they attack Spearman killing the enemy mills + 4 farms at once just feels illegal too My favorite civ so far for SURE
i have a creativity moment: what if you built a small wooden palisade box with 1-2 gate entrances, a little back from the front line, then put a few priests inside. it would be like a field hospital for your expensive OoTD units..
In regards to what you said about the Crossbow damage onto sieg. As far as I could tell it's added as a Bonus damage. The Bonus damage goes through any kind of Armor, which means that the crossbow deal 1 dmg with the base attack and +10 with the bonus damage, which probably makes it a very usefull tech.
really? i thought the opposite, since their economy is slower, their units are more expensive they will have a hard time to answer French's early knight harassment (because they'll get their first units later than the other civs) and it will be harder for them to be on multiple places at once to defend their villagers because they'll have less units.
@@tarksoyturk2893 French knights benfit from having pretty good armor, which gets circumvented by having units that deal higher than normal damage. A royal knight in feudal age has 190 HP and 3 melee armor. A regular HR MAA has 10 damage, so after taking armor into account, they hit for 7. So it takes 28 attacks to kill a knight. If we take 2 MMA (snce dragon MMA are twice the cost), each MMA needs to attack 14 times. Given their attack speed of 1.375, the two MMA will take 19,25 seconds to kill the knight. Crucially, the knight only needs 9 seconds to kill one of the MMA, meaning "team MMA" will only be dealing half damage for the remaining 10,25 seconds. Effectively this means that the lone remaining MMA will need another 20,5 seconds to kill the knight. After another 9 seconds pass, the knight will have killed the second MMA and actually survived the battle. A ryoal knight up against a gilded MMA faces an attack dealing 14 damage. After reducing for armor, the gilded MMA will deal 11 damage per hit, so they'll need 18 hits to kill the knight. With an attack speed of 1.125, the gilded MMA needs 20,25 seconds to kill the knight (so a little longer than the two MMA). However, the knight needs 17,25 seconds to chew through the gilded MMA's health - and the gilded MMA doesn't lose half his damage output half-way through the fight. Overall, the knight will still survive, but with less HP remaining than if it had fought 2 MMA. It's not a drastic advantage here, but in large scale battles not losing damage output for a longer time will be very advantageous.
@@Yeldibus that doesn't mean order of the dragon counters french though. it just means that gilded maa are better against knights than regular maa. like beasty said you need to go for direct counter units against order of the dragon and that's what you need to do as French and also as every other civ.
Mangonels appreciated that there were fewer units. If you usually have a very large radius and the mangonel will not hit everyone to the same extent, now the radius coincides with the radius of the mangonel.
Not necessarily. OTD units have higher hp, meaning fewer units actually die to the aoe attack. Mangos are better Vs low hp units. Spread formation is also a thing. OTD on spread is much stronger Vs mangos . Think of knights Vs mangos and how little damage they do
Если армия большая и нажать С, то в таком случае будет область которая вообще не будет затронута мангонелью. Вы должны понимать, что есть общий пул хп армии, а в таком случае в общем хп у этой цивилизации станет меньше, так как они будут полностью в зоне поражения мангонели. Попадаю по 1 юниту, вы как будто бы попали сразу по двум. Да, это снижает шанс остаточной потери юнита и дает возможность его излечить в дальнейшем. Нужно будет смотреть, как работает лечение. @@08vinster
Beasty speaking landsknecht correctly feels weird lul... Great and insightful video! EDIT: Order's Elzbach Palace also has +50% hp, Swabia is exactly the same
Something that became painfully obvious with Regnintz Cathedral is that you will *not* have a prelate upon age up and so you give up that early relic scoop-up that normal HRE gains.
Yeah but if you can gain map control then you stomp, however the burgrave actually lowers Maa cost to near normal levels which means you can afford a very large army pretty quickly.
One thing i thought is since most of their units have extra armor, they will really hardcounter archers/pikemen, and on the other hand their pikemen don't get so hardcountered by maa for example because of their high base damage. High armor and more hp makes me think that healing with prelates will now be even more valuable, so hopefuly we start to see people pulling away their weak units and sending back home to get healed, the knight alone is worth 400+ res
The biggest Order of the Dragon power spike will definitely be once they reach Castle age and can heal all their low hp units with the unlocked prelates, it will a destruction :D
i feel like this meinwerk palace should had been design that way for HRE a long time ago, more viable, offer a real choice between this and chapel. sad that is just for OoD.
knights with 10/10, spears and horses with 2 extra melee (5 melee max) at least to me seems better than chapel. Nothing for maa and lands well, whatever...
Just got my butt handed to me playing French against OotD. Definitely did exactly what you recommended against. I just assumed French knights were (they were) the best in the game. Nope. Guess I'll be switching my main! 😉
The wood cutting its aggravating. Sometimes you need to place strategic buildings in a location and you cant open the room for them anymore. I have no idea why devs thought this is a good idea...
Does golden cuirass reduce by 20% Before applying armor or after? Because if it's applied BEFORE armor it can make a huge difference for MAA against archer spear horsemen. And it's effectively much stronger. If it's applied after it is very weak.
drongos video gave me ADHD, barely showing tooltips and always having some silly example that everyone couldve pictured by showing the tooltip.. thanks beasty
The only thing I dislike about this addition is that I think, visually, battles will look a bit weird, at least I think so, we will see and I hope I'm wrong, but at the moment when you see two armies fighting it looks cool to see lots of units clashing. It will be weird to see so few units win against huge armies.
@@ethanwolfe1980 Im not even shure about that, the problem with prelates and the Aachen is, that you heavily bound to one location. Aachen will still be the best landmark in fudal, but regardles of that, it still has its down sides. If you runout of res under your aachen, then it almost has no worth any more and in addition, your spawn depended, your aachen not always covers all res. Gildes villagers on the other hand, are on default better, theres just a gather diffrenc of 15% compared to an inpired villager. But i dont need to be under the aachen or dont need to spend 100 gold for a preleat and this prelate again only can inspire 8 vils at max. I think this alone, will make gilded villagers much better then HRE. To top all things off. Gilded Villagers do 12 Damage. They do more damage then fudal MAA, they will be realy hard to raid.
So... that's it for OotD? They took the original civ, doubled the pop and res costs as well as stats for the same units, removed the prelate as a unique unit tbh and called it a day. I am disappointed. Especially when I compare that to the innovation and though that was invested into the other variants. HRE is supposed to be a religion centered civ, but other civs that are not have so much better and more interesting relgious units or abilities. OotD is even less focussed on religion, but also has the relic boni. Considering the slower eco growth and the lack of being able to build prelates in feudal already while there are now also Derwish monks on a fucking camel, I don't really see OotD getting a lot of relics in general. There is a whole civ bonus centered around relics and OotD has almost zero advantages of getting them. They even lost marching drills, which is probably one of the biggest problems. Not even inspired warriors was improved in any way, it still has the same shitty mechanic, but now also without marching drills. It's probably still better for OotD than for HRE, but fuck me.. The shit needs even to be researched and is not baseline once you hit age III. Not even when going Regnitz, which will probably be the ignored landmark now together with Aachen. It feels like they took HRE and turned its issues around with OotD. Strong units, worse eco, worse chances of getting relics and no early prelate to heal damaged units. They do not even get an improved healing ability, which would make total sense for a 2 pop per unit army. Healing will take forfuckingever. I don't know, but I feel like Relic does not fucking know what to do with HRE. They show the least level of innovation for this civ and its variant. I am actually disappointed. And once again there seem to be HRE/OotD specific bugs: No shooting animation for handcannons and archers lose .5 range in imperial. I am still annoyed by all the inspiration bugs and the brace bug back in the day. I just hope that this stuff gets fixed quickly. At best when the DLC is fully released.
same I was hoping for like a order of knights like templars or something, this is pretty lame tbh I think Ill stick with HRE. Also loosing those upgrades for the maa really hurts and I don't think the new upgrades make up for it.
This is the faction that needs to be nerfed! thanks for the review! what were the developers thinking?! It’s stupid to double the unit’s parameters without increasing it. knights are almost like elephants in terms of stats. Yes, in a team match, if you let the order eat itself, it will simply demolish everything on its own. The Order of the Dragon needs to be weakened and worked normally!
Is it possible that according to the video, the spearman of the 2nd population seemed to be worth it, and so were the others, or did I just not look carefully? I’ll see how the Order of the Dragon will show itself on the 14th in a network game, and what they will add and change to the classic factions. I could still understand if a faction stood out with one strengthening, but strengthening everything at once, except for the draft and ships....@@cdgncgn
@@ДмитрийШиробоков-п1мs really simple: u let ootd unharrassed, you lose, you scout and make hard counters as well as trying to kill many vills? U win.
Interesting combination, it looks like an EXTREMELY easy civ in terms of economy but quite difficult in army management, you cannot get distracted, you must heal units, etc. I love it.
I agree this is a low micro, high micro civ, and accordingly, it's probably not that easy to play. I think the 1 star difficulty rating does not reflect the challenge with winning with them
@@hughroe8598 it depends on how you see it. It is probably easier than English to play per se, what makes this evaluation questionable is that one thing is be able to learn it at a basic level (beat the hardest AI for example) another thing is to play it well competitively. I suppose we will have our answers in a few months after playing it for a while.
@@hughroe8598I’m still low elo and decently new (been playing age 2 for like a year and age 4 for a few weeks) but I currently have 100% win rate with OotD in ranked and they took me straight to gold 3. I find them to be the easiest civ and the hardest civ for us newer players to counter. Their powerful armies early game in feudal/early castle are just too strong for most players to defend and the slower unit production feels totally made up for by the increased eco speed
Its castle age landmarks are both insanely good. You can rush the monestary and go straight for relics / sites and just become unstoppable with basically unlimited gold or go for the barracks x2 and wipe their base with a mixed army
Every single military unit they have feels strong so as long as you are building the right units it feels like I can defend anything and my units feel invincible when they attack
Spearman killing the enemy mills + 4 farms at once just feels illegal too
My favorite civ so far for SURE
My new main civ❤️ finally my babysitting units will be rewarded 💪🏻
Just imagine this imperial knight stolen by new french and that hero lady used 4th level ability on it. Omega knight with near 1000 hp
Jeanne is drooling
i have a creativity moment:
what if you built a small wooden palisade box with 1-2 gate entrances, a little back from the front line, then put a few priests inside.
it would be like a field hospital for your expensive OoTD units..
My new Main :)
On my way to Sub-athon now! Thank you so much for this video, I am so darn excited for Order of the Dragon! :)
In regards to what you said about the Crossbow damage onto sieg.
As far as I could tell it's added as a Bonus damage. The Bonus damage goes through any kind of Armor, which means that the crossbow deal 1 dmg with the base attack and +10 with the bonus damage, which probably makes it a very usefull tech.
That's only true in aoe2.
You can see in drongos vids against the full 30PA siege, those xbows suck ass
Drongo proved that these bolts do next to nothing once the enemy siege gets the Siege Works
Thanks for your insight brother, appreciate all the videos you put out. Also, thumbnail says "Order of a Dragon". Just a heads up 😉
Order of The Dragon is my fav Civ and now I know all these crazy about them
Order of the Dragon: official French counter
Why tho
really? i thought the opposite, since their economy is slower, their units are more expensive they will have a hard time to answer French's early knight harassment (because they'll get their first units later than the other civs) and it will be harder for them to be on multiple places at once to defend their villagers because they'll have less units.
@@tarksoyturk2893 French knights benfit from having pretty good armor, which gets circumvented by having units that deal higher than normal damage.
A royal knight in feudal age has 190 HP and 3 melee armor. A regular HR MAA has 10 damage, so after taking armor into account, they hit for 7. So it takes 28 attacks to kill a knight. If we take 2 MMA (snce dragon MMA are twice the cost), each MMA needs to attack 14 times. Given their attack speed of 1.375, the two MMA will take 19,25 seconds to kill the knight. Crucially, the knight only needs 9 seconds to kill one of the MMA, meaning "team MMA" will only be dealing half damage for the remaining 10,25 seconds. Effectively this means that the lone remaining MMA will need another 20,5 seconds to kill the knight. After another 9 seconds pass, the knight will have killed the second MMA and actually survived the battle.
A ryoal knight up against a gilded MMA faces an attack dealing 14 damage. After reducing for armor, the gilded MMA will deal 11 damage per hit, so they'll need 18 hits to kill the knight. With an attack speed of 1.125, the gilded MMA needs 20,25 seconds to kill the knight (so a little longer than the two MMA). However, the knight needs 17,25 seconds to chew through the gilded MMA's health - and the gilded MMA doesn't lose half his damage output half-way through the fight. Overall, the knight will still survive, but with less HP remaining than if it had fought 2 MMA.
It's not a drastic advantage here, but in large scale battles not losing damage output for a longer time will be very advantageous.
it is ayyubids lol, imagine get camel rider which can switch to bow in feudal.
@@Yeldibus that doesn't mean order of the dragon counters french though. it just means that gilded maa are better against knights than regular maa. like beasty said you need to go for direct counter units against order of the dragon and that's what you need to do as French and also as every other civ.
Mangonels appreciated that there were fewer units. If you usually have a very large radius and the mangonel will not hit everyone to the same extent, now the radius coincides with the radius of the mangonel.
Not necessarily. OTD units have higher hp, meaning fewer units actually die to the aoe attack. Mangos are better Vs low hp units. Spread formation is also a thing. OTD on spread is much stronger Vs mangos .
Think of knights Vs mangos and how little damage they do
Если армия большая и нажать С, то в таком случае будет область которая вообще не будет затронута мангонелью. Вы должны понимать, что есть общий пул хп армии, а в таком случае в общем хп у этой цивилизации станет меньше, так как они будут полностью в зоне поражения мангонели. Попадаю по 1 юниту, вы как будто бы попали сразу по двум. Да, это снижает шанс остаточной потери юнита и дает возможность его излечить в дальнейшем. Нужно будет смотреть, как работает лечение. @@08vinster
Beasty speaking landsknecht correctly feels weird lul... Great and insightful video!
EDIT: Order's Elzbach Palace also has +50% hp, Swabia is exactly the same
how is that correctly lmao that g in ch is still off but thats to be expected
Archer dropped in range from 5.5 feudal to 5 imperial.
Since unit is expensive the micro on this civ might be more important.
Imagine massing royal knights and then u see 40 gilded spearmen coming towards you
Something that became painfully obvious with Regnintz Cathedral is that you will *not* have a prelate upon age up and so you give up that early relic scoop-up that normal HRE gains.
Yeah but if you can gain map control then you stomp, however the burgrave actually lowers Maa cost to near normal levels which means you can afford a very large army pretty quickly.
you explain it best. ty Beasty
I understand you marathon has started. Have fun Beasty!
That's a very useful video. Thank you very much!
Stay safe, stay cool!
thank you beasty, excellent video again!
One thing i thought is since most of their units have extra armor, they will really hardcounter archers/pikemen, and on the other hand their pikemen don't get so hardcountered by maa for example because of their high base damage. High armor and more hp makes me think that healing with prelates will now be even more valuable, so hopefuly we start to see people pulling away their weak units and sending back home to get healed, the knight alone is worth 400+ res
Habsburgs are back 😁😁
The order of the dragon was made by the King of Hungary 😂
this is refreshing, for once im already doing almost everything you say.
I have been waiting for the Landsknecht to get the Halberd! now we are talking!!
The dragon told me to get him a large fries and coke...
"Order of the dragon~"
I really hoped their design was more like the Teutonic order tho
It is wtf
@@calebtucker1609 the black pot helmet and long cloak...
Protoss came to AoE boys. How do I say En Taro Adun in German?
we need Mengsk coop.
What is the "charge micro" referring to. When running away, how can you charge?
The biggest Order of the Dragon power spike will definitely be once they reach Castle age and can heal all their low hp units with the unlocked prelates, it will a destruction :D
Cant wait to buy this game! Currently playing AoE 2 hheheehee...
31:45 This advice ironically implies that HRE will be the hard counter for the Order of the Dragon
i feel like this meinwerk palace should had been design that way for HRE a long time ago, more viable, offer a real choice between this and chapel. sad that is just for OoD.
knights with 10/10, spears and horses with 2 extra melee (5 melee max) at least to me seems better than chapel. Nothing for maa and lands well, whatever...
The meinwerk is like this like a year or so xD
@@cdgncgn yea I always go meinwerk over chapel the upgrades were worth it imo
Finaly!❤
Just got my butt handed to me playing French against OotD. Definitely did exactly what you recommended against. I just assumed French knights were (they were) the best in the game. Nope. Guess I'll be switching my main! 😉
The Knights are like Elephants
23:20 I thought bonus damage ignores pierce armor?
It's just +10 damage, not bonus damage. So the +10 ranged armor completely negates it.
Wald
Why are there no Mongols in your selection menu?
>order of the dragon
>no dragon in the roster
Does dragon still want to unlike in the monastery for big bonuses?
The wood cutting its aggravating. Sometimes you need to place strategic buildings in a location and you cant open the room for them anymore. I have no idea why devs thought this is a good idea...
To prevent chopping down a tree to invalidate a wall next to it.
Does golden cuirass reduce by 20% Before applying armor or after?
Because if it's applied BEFORE armor it can make a huge difference for MAA against archer spear horsemen. And it's effectively much stronger.
If it's applied after it is very weak.
OK I tested, the answer is YES!
Damage is reduce 20% before applying armor
and the tech is very cheap so It's a must
did they remove dragon villagers?
drongos video gave me ADHD, barely showing tooltips and always having some silly example that everyone couldve pictured by showing the tooltip.. thanks beasty
i just fear of the balance of this civ, specially in team game. I hope to be wrong
How is hre epected to keep up with that?
against that civ u need proper dragon in the game and just burn them all from the air
me building cloeset farm 1 tiles away
Now have an excuse.
Really wish they had the MaA mace upgrade.
Order of A Dragon
The only thing I dislike about this addition is that I think, visually, battles will look a bit weird, at least I think so, we will see and I hope I'm wrong, but at the moment when you see two armies fighting it looks cool to see lots of units clashing. It will be weird to see so few units win against huge armies.
Ever see 300 lmao
7:21 AOE damage? Age of Empires??
area of effect
@@cdgncgn thanks 😃
That's illegal content
Hahahaha don't be ridiculous 😂
20:05 so you still get schnitzel in the game lol
YAOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Will 1 Order of the Dragon villager also count for 2 normal Villagers concerning the storage place in TC or Towers ?
medieval protoss
Protos :D
you will either learn now or you will learn later the hard way hahaha
?
Order of Dragon will counter English
No brainer civ.. made for people who aren’t be able to care about any counter. I got wrecked by spearmen against archers. Seriously?
do the man at arms have the mace upgrade?!?
Simple Question:
Why should i ever play the original HRE, if there is this now?
Seems like original HRE might still be better boom civ with Aachen and more units means more coverage for your base defense
@@ethanwolfe1980 Im not even shure about that, the problem with prelates and the Aachen is, that you heavily bound to one location.
Aachen will still be the best landmark in fudal, but regardles of that, it still has its down sides. If you runout of res under your aachen, then it almost has no worth any more and in addition, your spawn depended, your aachen not always covers all res.
Gildes villagers on the other hand, are on default better, theres just a gather diffrenc of 15% compared to an inpired villager. But i dont need to be under the aachen or dont need to spend 100 gold for a preleat and this prelate again only can inspire 8 vils at max.
I think this alone, will make gilded villagers much better then HRE. To top all things off. Gilded Villagers do 12 Damage. They do more damage then fudal MAA, they will be realy hard to raid.
Hail W3 players with draw back units to heal )
where is the creep to heal on, blessed ground.
So... that's it for OotD? They took the original civ, doubled the pop and res costs as well as stats for the same units, removed the prelate as a unique unit tbh and called it a day. I am disappointed. Especially when I compare that to the innovation and though that was invested into the other variants. HRE is supposed to be a religion centered civ, but other civs that are not have so much better and more interesting relgious units or abilities. OotD is even less focussed on religion, but also has the relic boni. Considering the slower eco growth and the lack of being able to build prelates in feudal already while there are now also Derwish monks on a fucking camel, I don't really see OotD getting a lot of relics in general. There is a whole civ bonus centered around relics and OotD has almost zero advantages of getting them. They even lost marching drills, which is probably one of the biggest problems. Not even inspired warriors was improved in any way, it still has the same shitty mechanic, but now also without marching drills. It's probably still better for OotD than for HRE, but fuck me.. The shit needs even to be researched and is not baseline once you hit age III. Not even when going Regnitz, which will probably be the ignored landmark now together with Aachen. It feels like they took HRE and turned its issues around with OotD. Strong units, worse eco, worse chances of getting relics and no early prelate to heal damaged units. They do not even get an improved healing ability, which would make total sense for a 2 pop per unit army. Healing will take forfuckingever.
I don't know, but I feel like Relic does not fucking know what to do with HRE. They show the least level of innovation for this civ and its variant. I am actually disappointed.
And once again there seem to be HRE/OotD specific bugs: No shooting animation for handcannons and archers lose .5 range in imperial. I am still annoyed by all the inspiration bugs and the brace bug back in the day. I just hope that this stuff gets fixed quickly. At best when the DLC is fully released.
You lost ww2, get over it.
same I was hoping for like a order of knights like templars or something, this is pretty lame tbh I think Ill stick with HRE. Also loosing those upgrades for the maa really hurts and I don't think the new upgrades make up for it.
+
THIS CLAPPING IS DISRESPECTING XDDDDDD
So basically the only counter to this civ is to fully lose initiative and let it dictate the game, sounds amazingly unfun to play against.
sounds to me like you could hit multiple points and they wont have enough men to cover everything
@@Arnazisti yes then they slaug hter your army and counterpush you into oblivion, landmark sniping you within 18 seconds with 4 knights
@@Haxcalibur those 4 knights cost 800 food lol and countered by a bunch of spears
This is the faction that needs to be nerfed! thanks for the review! what were the developers thinking?! It’s stupid to double the unit’s parameters without increasing it. knights are almost like elephants in terms of stats. Yes, in a team match, if you let the order eat itself, it will simply demolish everything on its own. The Order of the Dragon needs to be weakened and worked normally!
In terms of this dlc it’s not that crazy, zhuxi legacy’s imperial guard and Byzantine cataphract have similar stats
units cost 2x pop.
Is it possible that according to the video, the spearman of the 2nd population seemed to be worth it, and so were the others, or did I just not look carefully? I’ll see how the Order of the Dragon will show itself on the 14th in a network game, and what they will add and change to the classic factions. I could still understand if a faction stood out with one strengthening, but strengthening everything at once, except for the draft and ships....@@cdgncgn
@@ДмитрийШиробоков-п1мs really simple: u let ootd unharrassed, you lose, you scout and make hard counters as well as trying to kill many vills? U win.