3rd Position SECRETS | Catan Placement Strategy
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2019
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Placing settlements is one of the most important decisions in Catan. Today, I go over what to look for in the 3rd position and how to properly use the 3rd position's strength. I hope you learn something!
No specific lesson for this video, but there's still a lot to learn!
Chris Broderick Catan AMA
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I wanted to make a note at 5:55 I said 3rd position would take the 6/3/11 but I actually think that the better option to pair with the 8/4/10 is the 6/5/11 because of the increased sheep production and the space you are blocking by going there. Sorry for the mistake!
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I would like more like this. A whole “the rules of Catan series” would be great.
I'll consider this! Thanks!
@@DyLightedCatan This would actually be much more useful than situational strategies such as placement on specific board configurations. Awesome channel btw. Keep it up.
If you're looking to get more of the "rules" of Catan, check out Neonate Gaming. Neonate is one of the pioneer Catan channels on UA-cam and where DyLighted got the rules in this video from. Neonate hasn't been posting/streaming much lately but you can find his "rules of Catan" in the description of his newer videos.
@@DyLightedCatan
thanks for your detailed videos, I also appreciate this kind of analysis as i recently got more invested in Catan.
However i do have a couple of questions regarding the board of example 4.
As 4th player in this game after 3rd player has taken the 11/6/4 OWS shown at 7:28, my (relatively new player) play would be the 10/8/4 Ore double brick (road to the brick port), then i would take the 10/8/3 wheat double wood (road to the 4 sheep). My logic here is that i will have very strong wood and brick to play the longest road game and every 10 roll gives me wheat and ore for cities. i place the second settlement so i get wheat for a my third settlement to be built on the brick port and point the road toward the sheep since it is the only resource i dont have access to and with the intention of my forth settlement to be built on the 8/4 wood/sheep/? port spot.
Question 1.
what is your opinion/critique of this play and what makes the 6/3/11 taken by player 4 in the video (shown at 7:31) a better play than my play of the 10/8/3.
Question 2.
With my play i think player 3 would then take the 11/9/3 sheep double wood to pair with his wood port target, then player 2 would take the 4/5/11 brick double sheep to get access to brick to complete the road/settlement costs and sheep for the sheep port it looks like he is going for. Player 1 I actually then dont know.
Do you think these will be the plays of player 2 and 3, and if not what do you think they will do instead? Also where do you think player 1 would place their second settlement.
Thanks again for the videos and clear explanations.
Wow, this video was amazing!
Thank you! I spent a lot of time on this video. I'm glad you could enjoy it.
Love these concept videos. Especially when you pause and let us try to figure out the answer. These are great for learning and expanding how we play the game, thanks for making them!
Of course! Thanks for watching and learning!
This kind of videos are great!!!
I'd love to see more!
Awesome! Thank you for the feedback!
Thanks for the video! I always liked the third position, now I love it
Great video! I would love to see more like this. thank you for making it.
Failure to consider which spots are going to be blocked is a big flaw in my game and gets me in trouble a lot when I thought I was strong. Nice video.
Thanks! I appreciate it!
This is a great video!! I like these videos a lot! You had another video where u told us to pause and had us try to win. That video was a very difficult puzzle and hard to learn core concepts from. This one did a great job teaching how to use rules 18 & 19 together! Great job keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for the compliment. Yea that puzzle was ridiculously hard xD. I realized that after even the strong players I practice with had trouble solving it. I'm really glad you learned something. I'll definitely keep on trying to make more like this.
Never thought of that, exactly information and yes I want more videos like this.
Wow very nice analysis. Never thought of it like that. Awesome video thanks!
great last example!
Great video Dyl 😃 I always use Rule 19 if placing 3rd. Working backwards, if 2nd you could then predict 3rd and 4th, etc. Though as first this gets a little unreliable 😛
Thank you! I definitely try and do this on easy boards with good players. It helps out a bunch. Also yes, the farther you plan it out the more unreliable it becomes as people see different things than you do. Thanks for the comment!
On the 4th board I understand your logic when you talk about the one position being harder to block. But isn't it going to be harder for you to get to that wood port because you have no access to brick except through trade? Smart players will just not trade you brick so you end up with excess wood and are now inefficiently trading 4:1. Whereas the other position may be easier to block on that 10 ore, but being strong ore, wheat, sheep they can play a strong dev card game and through knights they'll be able to minimize how much being blocked affects them.
Great video!
Thanks! I really appreciate the compliment!
@@DyLightedCatan I love how you breakdown the concepts and give a chance to apply to a real board. Invaluable to me as I have a small obsession with the game. Please keep up the great work!
Great video! I'm still a bit confused why in the last board the fourth player wouldn't choose the 3/8/10 for their second settlement: although it doesn't produce sheep, it can trade for them with the brick port, has higher production overall, and would have a good pairing of resources: a road on every 8, and and wheat/ore on every 10. Plus it'd block player 4 from taking advantage of the wood port. Plus if you really needed sheep you could grab the 4/8 3:1 port with sheep since it doesn't seem like anyone's going to place there.
Well that seems to be a good strategy but only getting resources at the same numbers is really risky, because if in that game never ever a 10 gets rolled, u really strugle. Same goes also for the 8.
So normally it is better to be on different numbers.
Typically, a dev card strategy/an ore/wheat/sheep game is easier/more likely to win than a wood/clay (road) game. This is easier possible with the 6/3/11, and I think this is why Dylighted prefered this spot. In addition, with no sheep and low wheat you won't buy a lot of dev cards, so you won't have too much control where the robber will be...
I might still prefer the 3/8/10 (pointing the road left to the 3:1 port with sheep), trying to play a road game, because it will put you in the best spot for road considering starting/early ressources, whereas army might be more contested.
In the end, I think it's personal preference...
Hello! First off, thanks for the compliment!
Great thoughts! I did think of the possibility of player 4 taking the 8/4/10 and the 8/3/10, but I think that is very unlikely. In addition, you say that the 4/8 might be open (which it could), but the red player (me) might take the 4/8 and build to the 6 wheat adding more risk to the placements. Personally, I’d take the what I did in the video for my setup to win - the 8/4/10 and the 6/3/11 (I think 6/5/11 is better though).
As other people have mentioned, I think taking what I took in the video puts you in a very strong position. You have the uncontested brick port and good ore/wheat/sheep to win the army race with strong numbers also.
If you did the placement you did (8/4/10 + 3/8/10), I think there’s not a good spot to expand to as the road player. I also sort of hate playing at the road player when I can’t connect. It’s very inefficient to spend roads on both sides of the island since one side doesn’t contribute to the longest road. I also think you’ll face the same issue of getting the 10 ore blocked, and you won’t have many knights to defend that spot. I also think you’ll face the issue of not getting longest road or army. I think blue may be able to beat you in roads even if you have the better wood brick since they have more space.
@DylLighted - Catan
Thanks for the great video and content and general! I had not played in a very long time but I recently started again and enjoy your thoughfull analysis immensely! I only played offline so far but I am thinking about playing online because of your videos as well! :)
I have a question regarding the last board at 7:37 :
You assume that 4th position will be taking the 4/8/10 and the 3/6/11. I was wondering if 4th could instead take the 3/8/10, giving 4th really good coordinated wood/brick (8 +3/4) and coordinated ore/wheat on the 10. For O/W/S they are only missing sheep, which they should be able to get at the 3/8 together with a 3:1.
Would 4th be overextending as they now have to race 3rd position for the 4/8 while also getting the brick port? If they get those spots, this intuitively seems stronger for 4th to me. Or do you dislike it because of the feast or famine?
With this play 3rd would get the 3/6/11, so less wood and more wheat, but I assume the 6wheat might be a good robber target, so 3rd would not seem stronger to me in this setup?
Would be greatful for you thoughts :)
Way late to the party, but!
1:37 wheat and brick are both rare. I dont even mind the 3-6-9 too much, but would go for the 3-4-8 instead, I think. Edit: missed the double brick possibility, neat.
2:31 Ore is for sure the rare thing here, but the only remaining ore spot is a 3-4-8 (disregarding the 2 ore). Doubling down on brick on 3-4-11 is just not good enough. You can be decently sure to get a strong wood/wheat spot for the 2nd settlement, so the 3-4-8 would be my pick.
4:00 This is a hard one! Wood and ore are both rare, and 3 ore is not good enough value for a initial pick imo. Do you go on the 8-10 desert, trusting that you can get sheep on the final placement and go for a city+dev card game? Ah, this is hard. I would go 5-9-10 and head for a longest road game, and simply not get initial ore. Then place on the triple sheep spot and head for the sheep port maybe, with the strong wood/brick? I see your points, but that is really hard to spot for a beginner ;)
4:58 Brick seems the go-to here. Placing on the 4-8-10 we lock both blue + 4th position out of a decent brick spot, ensuring us a good trade. The brick port is also right next to it. 4th position will take 4-6-11 getting some ore + good wheat and sheep, and probably look to lock 3-8-10 to get wood? Leaving 3-6-11 open for us on our 2nd placement, with decent road materials and a ows setup. Woop! Was so pleased to see this was right, up until you said "naaaah robber factor!" - that is some real deep stuff man.
In the second scenario, I considered brick to also be a rare resource and therefore believed that the 1134 to be the correct choice. It does have 3 pips less production, but sheep is a high resource that I don't think will be strongly needed since the second slot will also have strong sheep. This also forces 4th away from 6113 and perhaps onto the 649 making 956 an incorrect 4th second choice and opening it up to you granting high wood to pair with high brick. How do you think this compares?
very interesting!
Do you have a link where all these rules are listed?
For the 3rd board, I see merit in going on the 8Wheat/4/3 because you can also get on either the 6/5/11 or 6/3/11 for the free road and full 5 resources. Your first plan is to build towards the 3Ore/6Wood spot on the coast, which you will 100% be able to do. This helps patch your weaker points of lowish wood (depending on 2nd settlement) and low ore. It may not be as good as a strong ore wheat sheep game from going on the 8/10 spot 1st, but you have a broader range of numbers and more board flexibility. If you get on the 6/3/11, I can even see a scenario where you can cut off grey to the wheat port, as you start with 2 wood and 1 brick and he has low wood.
I agree with this. I think board 3 is actually the weakest example out of all of these. Another way for the 8/10 placement to fall apart is for 4th player to take the 5/8/4.
Thanks for the comment and for pointing that out.
@@DyLightedCatan Good point about the 8/5/4 snipe too! I didn't consider that either but yeah the 4th player could have a very strong game by pairing that with the 6/5/11 and heading towards the 8wheat/3ore spot uncontested. I think 4th position could also get greedy and point their 2nd road from the 6/5/11 down to the 10/11/3. We'd have to settle for the 9/6/2 or the 9/10/5, leaving us without either sheep or wood. We'd probably be battling for only 2nd place with some luck.
The last placement: yeah so third position actually got the worst of it so they should play this way. *cues video and third position plays the better move. Me 🤯
Great content and thanks for the examples. Yes i would like to see more videos like this. Where's the rest of the rules? :D
Where are you getting these rules from? And can you post a link for them?
The big thing that is missed with these examples is what the prediction success rate is and what actual strategy people play. In the fourth placement at 5:52 I would place on the 4,5,11 and then the 3,8,10 with the intention to play the road game, pick up the 3 ore and possibly the sheep port.
How do you deal with players that are less skilled and that are not necessarily placing settlement at the "right" spot ?
Can you please explain resource points?
For your last example, when you mentioned that the robber will be mostly on 10 ore, isn't it very likely that 2nd player (you, especially) will also go for dev cards, so both players on 10 ore will protect that tile with their knights, for the most part, while the other 2 players will rely mostly on rolling 7s (since they will produce less ore = fewer knights)
That's a great point and I totally agree with you! That spot will still be blocked whenever a 7 is rolled or when a knight is played.
This is a coment on the 4th board. I'm imagining a scinerio in which 4th position takes the strong brick with the ore and then takes the 10 wheat with the 7 points of wood and builds down to the 3-1 port and the sheep. Is this not better for 4th position than building on the 6-11-3. After all if you do this, you block 3rd position and force him to double up on the 6 wheat making it an easy target for the robber. You would also have complete road control. Let me know what you think of this scenario
I agree this could be quite strong. However as he mentions further below, there's not great expansion spots to go for as a road player
I know I'm a little late really late watching these videos but I was wondering if, on the forth board, the 5-11-6 placement isn't better for your second settlement after the 8-4-10. You don't get wood but production is better and more importantly you kind of block red from the wheat spot since the 6-2 and 6-3 wheat spots don't seem really strong to me. And you block blue from going on the 4-11-5, allowing him to use his sheep port for all the ore he needs.
Would love to hear people's thoughts
Great video thank you! Where can I find nates rules?
Look up neonate Catan on UA-cam.
One question: what if on the last board 4th position decides to go for 4/8/10 and 3/8/10?
They would end up with coordinated wheat/ore(I guess ore might get blocked) and have combined wood/brick. This would also make 3rd postioins placings weirt tho right? I believe 4th player would be better off then
3:00 - Why not 4/3/11? Both ore and brick are in short supply on this board, and this placement offers a decent supply of both. The other resources have 2 near identical spots. When combined with the 4/3/11 placement, no number duplicates, and each resource has over an 8% chance to be rolled.
Good points and good thoughts! Taking the 3/4/11 is taking only 7 points of production. Production allows consistency since you can't really do anything if you don't have any cards!
Assuming the 9/5/10 is obtained, there would be 18 points of production, with 8 leading to roads (4 each of wood and brick). The setup you indicated would have 21 points of production, but the distribution would be heavy sheep (2 and 4 brick and wood, 9 sheep). While I agree that high production is ideal, the lack of brick would make expansion difficuIt. (Roads and settlements both need it.) What would your gameplan be for the 3/4/8, assuming the 9/5/10 is also secured? (A valid assumption, used in my 3/4/11 placement also.)
Very instructive video!!! I disagree with you on the last game board placement though. I’d stick with the 8-4-10 because it puts the 4th player in a tough position with no roads. If you place on the 6-4-11, the 4th player should take 8-4-10 & 3-10-8 having strong wood and brick with a port for each. Doubling up on #10 & 8 would be a risk I’d be willing to take because it would mean automatic roads or cities.
i love it
For the second board, why not the 3/4/11? It would be more brick which is not that abundant and you'll have plenty of sheep on either of the other positions for your second pick.
3:11 Why isn't brick the rare resource? Couldn't we have put the settlement on the 11/3/4? Please tell me why or why not.
The blur is to hard :D hurts my eyes.Thx for the great video!
The second board is interesting. For one, if 3rd position values the high production rather than the rare ressource, he just swaps settlements with 4th. Not a huge deal if you get a port for all that excess wood.
The interesting question is what 2nd will do. Do you grab the wheat you need and give 1rst that 4-6-9? You’ll surely lose the race on the 8 ore and get plowed. You might have to go wheatless and port your wood, just to block first position.
so, what are rules 1-17?
DyLighted, my book of rules doesn't say you get resources from second settlement at the beginning. Is that a tournament rule?
Maybe your rule book is copied and incomplete, but you always get your resources from your 2nd settlement. This is the rule for all Catan games.
Which do you prefer more, 1st or 4th position?
what is the rules list you are referring to for rule 18 and 19?
Great question! Another person named "Neonate" makes Catan videos also. He's my biggest inspiration and has taught me a large amount of the fundamentals I have today. Neonate has made a list of 100 rules in Catan (below). Be sure to check out his Catan videos!
ua-cam.com/channels/mOudUD791Jv_iZcW3R8l1Q.html
Rules v20190624
Placements
Rule #1 Ore Wins
Rule #2 Production, Production, Production
Rule #3 No Wheat = Defeat
Rule #4 Get All Five Resources
Rule #5 But, Ore/Wheat/Sheep Still Very Strong
Rule #6 Good Ratio of Wood:Brick is 1:1
Rule #7 Good Ratio of Ore:Wheat:Sheep is 5:3:2
Rule #8 Plan Third Settlement / Port
Rule #9 Point Roads to Coasts or Desert
Rule #10 Don’t Be Greedy (7-8pt Spots Will Be Contested)
Rule #11 Free Road? Yes, Please
Rule #12 Same Numbers = Feast or Famine
Rule #13 Reserved…
Rule #14 …
Rule #15 …
Rule #16 When First, Check Edges
Rule #17 When Third, Take Rare Resources
Rule #18 When Third, Predict Fourth
Rule #19 When Fourth, Take Best Production
Rule #20 When Second, Predict Last
Gameplay
Rule #21 Know Thyself: Army or Road?
Rule #22 Know Others: Army or Road?
Rule #23 Track Army & Road Progress
Rule #24 Largest Army Better Than Longest Road
Rule #25 Build Sooner / Take Bird in the Hand
Rule #26 Spread Out Production
Rule #27 Avoid Confrontations
Rule #28 Get a Port
Rule #29 Don’t Make Yourself a Target
Rule #30 When Ahead, Buy Dev. Cards
Rule #31 When Behind, Build Cities
Rule #32 Avoid Taking Army Too Early
Rule #33 Never Take Army Too Late
Rule #34 Build a City Before Max’ing Out Settlements
Rule #35 Take Longest Road as Late as Possible
Rule #36 Know Your Win Condition(s)
Rule #37 Know Opponents’ Win Conditions
Rule #38 Reserved…
Rule #39 …
Rule #40 …
Development Cards
Rule #41 Play Knights Before Rolling (Except If Holding 7 Cards)
Rule #42 Save Monopoly for the End
Rule #43 Beware of Monopoly
Rule #44 Road Building? Plan Ahead
Rule #45 Save Invention for Rare Resources
Rule #46 Victory Points? Just Build
Rule #47 Track Dev. Cards Remaining
Rule #48 Reserved…
Rule #49 …
Rule #50 …
Trading (General)
Rule #51 Trade to Build Now or Soon
Rule #52 Trade for Rare Resources
Rule #53 Trade with Trailing Players
Rule #54 Trade Tightly with the Leader
Rule #55 Reserved…
Rule #56 …
Rule #57 …
Rule #58 …
Rule #59 …
Rule #60 …
Trading (On Your Turn)
Rule #61 Trade Before Building
Rule #62 Almost a Coin Flip (48%), 7s Won’t Roll (4P)
Rule #63 Reserved…
Rule #64 …
Rule #65 …
Trading (On Opponents’ Turn)
Rule #66 Trade Tightly When Opp. Needs Trade to Build
Rule #67 Trade Tightly When Opp. Holds Many Cards
Rule #68 Avoid Trades When Opp. Has 6+ Points
Rule #69 Demand Multiple Cards When You Hold 7+ Cards
Rule #70 Reserved…
Robber
Rule #71 Block/Rob the (Real) Leader
Rule #72 Block Resources You Produce
Rule #73 Unfair Robber? Play Tit for Tat
Rule #74 Racing? Rob & Block What He Needs to Win Race
Rule #75 Reserved…
Rule #76 …
Rule #77 …
Rule #78 …
Rule #79 …
Rule #80 …
Table Management
Rule #81 Table Talk Works
Rule #82 Don’t Be a Jerk
Rule #83 Don’t Show-Off
Rule #84 Reserved…
Rule #85 …
Rule #86 …
Rule #87 …
Rule #88 …
Rule #89 …
Rule #90
Situational
Rule #91 Low Ore, Ports are King
Rule #92 Reserved…
Rule #93 …
Rule #94 …
Rule #95 …
Rule #96 …
Rule #97 …
Rule #98 …
Rule #99 …
Rule #100 Break Rules as Needed
@@DyLightedCatan thank you for posting this! Such a great channel host ❤️
7:32
It's a 2 years old video but i think that 4th position could also place the 2nd settlement on the 3-10-8 and point toward the 3:1 port to gain sheep, and he's much faster than you on it because you'd be left with almost no wood no brick for ur 2nd settlement.
So you'd be left with a terrible setup. What do you think Dylighted?
4:00 when I looked at this I initially thought of going the 8-10 but then noticed that choice can screw you out of wood. However if you chose 6-5-11, you'd have access to the 8-10 or the 8-4-3. It would be highly unlikely for the 4th player to choose both locations (and if he did you'd be in a stronger position than him anyway and he wouldn't be able to expand).
I agree with you
Ugh, I didn't see the wood port & messed up
On board #2 would it be too crazy to supplement 6, 9, 5 with 8 ore wood port?
Jan Zalewski Great thought! I don’t think that’s a crazy idea, but it’s certainly not the strongest one as you leave so so much space for the rest of the 3 players. Even if it is “better” for you, it’s way “better” for your opponents. If your opponents have a much better setup, doesn’t that make your setup worse? After all, you are trying to have the best setup to win the game, not a mediocre setup that’ll tie with your opponents.
With that said, it’s a great idea and I love the creativity. If it was a causal match and I wanted to learn , I’d potentially do something like that and see what I can learn from a creative placement like that.
@@DyLightedCatan thanks, I do agree that this might not be the best, but I do love trying something very weird from time to time
Of course! I agree. Trying and experimenting even the wrong things is a good way to learn things you typically wouldn’t learn.
I don't get it how you can place only on ore/wheat/sheep. Whenever I do it, nobody trades me, and I have to 4:1 for both wood and brick, making my settlements cost a whopping 10 resources. IF I can somehow get a road first, which is almost as hard
Still awesome Videos 🤓😁
Congratulations to 1300+ ELO at CU, thats not bad 👍
Maybe one day I will be part of one of your Videos ✌️👌
L. A. Thank you! Join the discord to play some games with me! If there’s a good game, I might end up posting it!
What happens for 1st and 2nd position?
Siggerou1993 - 2nd placed 6/3 and 1st placed 4/5/11. 2nd should have placed 6/2 though, the 6/3 is quite passive.
@@DyLightedCatan Sorry, I meant to say "What are the main things to consider when picking 1st, and 2nd?"
Siggerou1993 Oh! I see. In general as 1st and 2nd position you want to get the highest producing spots along with the strong wheat and ore. For example, if there is a 5/8/10 Ore wheat sheep you always want to take that 1st. That’s an amazing first spot.
Does this video assume competency in catan? Newbies are highly unpredictable!
Yes - with newer players this sort of breaks down since you need assume competency. Well said.
i really liked this video, but i disagree about the 4th case... i don't think the 4th player would take the 11/6/3, it doesn't make sanse to me, but great video Bro
what about 5-9-10
if fourth takes 8-4-3 still we have the 11-4 port
4-11 is not enough production and gives too much space to our oppoennts
The only problem i see, is that if p4 is not to concerned about sheep, he could place his second settelment on the 3,8,10
Then you kind of messed up
If 4th player takes the 8,4,5 in board 3 then you can't do either of the placements you suggested.
I think rules as written it should be considered legal although it should be illegal to avoid collusion
Hi, a question to the board at ua-cam.com/video/Q5Y796ZZu8Y/v-deo.html (7:43) what do you think of taking 10 ore 8 4 at top and then the 8 3 10 at the bottom?
You miss out on sheep but you get the roads with an 8 and you lock down the brick and the wood harbor for which you have 8 prod each.
I believe he was anticipating that if he went 8/4/10 then player 4 would likely take the 8/3/10 spot at the bottom
@@cassidybrash4243 i meant as a 4th player (in the example where 3rd takes the 11 6 4 at the bottom) but i confused the sheep port with the wood port :D so nevermind
5:15 nah he can put on 6-11-4 and 6-2 port wheat ;)
I find this a bit dumb. It doesn't matter if you're 3rd, you should always go for the rarest resource first...In fact, even more so if you're 1st or 2nd...
I really don't like the play on the blurry board... your only numbers are 8, 10, and 5. I don't see a way to win unless the dice are extremely kind to you.
This only works if everyone ure playing against is a pro...