How NOT To Go Tubeless - 6 Things I Wish I knew Before Going Tubeless
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- We recently converted several of our bikes to tubeless tires and it was NOT easy. I made a lot of mistakes along the way and wasted a lot of tape. This is what I learned in the process. Hopefully it will make your conversion process easier.
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Ok here it goes if anyone reads this, just more pointers/thoughts.
1. The most important part of setting up tubeless, regardless of what tape your using, is to first run a tube for a few rides after the tape has been installed, this will ensure your tape is seated/sealed. Also if you have a new tire this will stretch out any folds in a hard casting (new Continental MTB tires need this). Tape install may also be made easier by cleaning your rim surface with alcohol prior.
2. Gorilla tape, ~1", can make for less pain on tape install and the longevity of the tape.
3. I normally make a hole in my tape by melting it with a metal poker and lighter, i've had stans tape split after cutting an x.
4. I've had problems with the valve stem leaking over the years (cx mag had an article on these lately) so I generally like to use gasket maker and an o-ring against the rim surface. This has made this area a little more leak-proof.
5. I used to think that seating one side of the tire was beneficial, but now I disagree, on some tires this will cause too large of a gap and prevent a tire from seating at all.
6. To make the process easier it is always recommended to use an air compressor and soapy water to lube that bead.
7. Remember to add sealant after 2-3 months (thru the valve stem, don't ever break the bead if you don't have to). You should be riding a bike setup tubeless enough to have to replace your tires after 6. If not, in my opinion, tubeless is not for you.
Hope that helps. Tubeless is great when you get it right. Cheers!
I agree with you except for a small difference on point 1. I put the tape on, put a tube in, inflate to a high pressure (below the label maximum of course), and let it cure for 24 hours. I've never had a problem if I do this. Patience is key. For what it's worth, I have about 35k miles on tubeless road setups (mostly 700x38, but other sizes as well.)
Don’t know about 7. If your going to ride in a way that’s prone to punctures, and pinch flats if you run tubes, tubeless is the way to go. I run tubeless on my street bike (couple of hundred miles a week) and my fat bike (less than 1k miles a year). But I wouldn’t dream of taking my fat bike on single track or into the desert with tubes. I pack a tube (with a healthy dose of Stan’s in it) in case of tubeless catastrophic failure.
Did you mean to say 6 months? I'm new so not sure how often I'll be replacing tires.
" replace your tires after 6" Six what?
@@curiousgeorge555 I think I meant this in a few ways, mainly if you don't ride your bike weekly I wouldn't recommend tubeless. It can require that muck more effort to get a bike moving after storage. Also, depending on the tire/trail types/environment/how much you ride, tires maybe only get one refill before the tread is worn-out, which can be after 6 months of hard riding. IMO The perfect scenario is if you only break the bead once in a tires life; when removing to throw it away.
I ride in the desert and having tubless tires have made my life much easier. I agree that doing the conversation yourself is very helpful on understanding how to fix your flats if you ever get one
Great video. I went tubeless and now I am back to using inner tubes. I am now searching sealant to inner tube. Thanks again for your video.
I needed this video. Struggling through home repairs and learning along the way has become my thing since I don’t have a bike shop in my town. I got a pair of gravel tires for Christmas, and I was getting really discouraged by trying to go tubeless. I ran into every problem you did. Thank you.
For frequently ridden bikes, it is worth the effort and learning all the new maintenance details. On my tubeless bikes, I've only ever had a flat when the tyre was significantly slashed. I still carry a tube for that eventuality but have given away more tubes to stranded riders than I have used for myself.
This is the best video you have ever made. An honest review of everything that can go wrong. It may be your unique niche -- apart from the fish.
I’ve literally just changed to tubeless before watching this video it went really well. I put it off for so long because I was worried it wouldn’t go according to plan! I watched endless UA-cam videos before taking the plunge. It’s actually so much easier fitting tires not having to worry about punching the inner tube
Another perfect example why you are important; where else do I get honest 'don't do this' advice? You do that excellently!! Thanks!
Great video. I have sent my bike off to have a mechanic set it up tubeless. I love the tubeless setup. I have had very few flats and have to think about my tires way less since going tubeless. A few tips I’ve picked up: orange seal doesn’t dry out as fast as other brands, so it works great in warm weather. Having the right tire
im combo is important. I always use a tubeless compatible rim with a tubeless tire and have had no burping or loss of pressure. My mechanic uses a heat shrinking tape for the rim? It’s been super durable.
Keep up the great channel Russ.
Thanks for the video tips, there are so many people gonna need the knowledge.
Great tips and advice!! Thanks for your effort on sharing this
Great video. I was thinking of going tubeless and doing it myself. Glad I watched your video.
Great job. Thanks for the tips.
Loved the video, it was a gem! Some things I already knew, but some good new tips here! Also, the comments are pretty helpful! Setting up tubeless for the first time in my bike so I can go on very long rides in rugged terrain with a little more confidence! Just bought a Muc Off tubless system and I'm pretty anxious to see how it performs! Cheers, from Brazil!
Im a mechanic in a shop and bike tinkerer of 50 years. I have tried most of the tubeless systems, kits and conversions on the market. Some are quite good and some will make you hate your tires!!! Lots of stuff IS NOT ‘tubeless ready’ regardless what marketing says! I have made most of the mistakes and repairs related to riding in many different scenarios.
Ghetto tubeless (split tube) is the original tubeless method. It is cheapest, best and the most reliable. Ive been using this method for 15 years with VERY FEW ISSUES. I use it in tires ranging from 26x2.4 to 700x42. Tires dont even need to be tubeless ready but TR tires generally make a better setup. I run pressures anywhere from 18 psi for sand and mud to 60 psi on the road. The beauty of the ghetto method is the construction and shape the tire takes. The shape is rounder. The construction, feel and performance is very similar to a tubular tire except you dont need to use glue to mount your tires. Theyre not as secure at very low pressure as sew ups either, such as for ‘cross racing.
I REPEAT, ghetto IS THE BEST, MOST RELIABLE tubeless set up method!!!!
The only issues Ive had were caused by my own negligence. Either forgetting to pump up tires pre ride(eager to ride!) and rolling a tire off (CRASHED!) or not checking for liquid sealant in the tire for a couple months.
On standard tubeless set ups the VALVE IS THE WEAK POINT and prone to leakage and failure when using a hand pump out on the trail. A ghetto set up has the valve solidly connected to ‘rim strip’.
Ghetto set ups are slightly more effort to build , but practice makes perfect. I can set up a wheel now in about 20 minutes.
Always inflate any tubeless set up dry, sans sealant to check for leaks. A good set up will hold air without sealant for at least 30 minutes. Ive had set ups hold air indefinitely for over a week!! Good Set up is all about achieving the proper tire to rim fit. Loose is NO BUENO! Too tight and its hard to repair out on the trail. Youre looking for tight enough that you need to CAREFULLY use tire levers. Some tire and rim combos JUST DONT WORK TOGETHER.
PROPER Tubeless setup REQUIRES PATIENCE AND EXPERIMENTATION. Practice makes perfect!!!DONT do a set up a night before a big ride or keep a set of backup wheels handy.
I demand reliability!! I ride to places far from help or cell service. Sometimes for numerous days. I frequently ride on technical rocks and work tires hard. My set ups last generally until the tire wears out or I cut tires beyond repair.
ALWAYS carry spare tubes, A REAL PUMP( bigger the better) and a patch kit and tire boots. EVERYTHING is prone to failure at some point. NOTHING lasts forever and SHIT HAPPENS!!!
If you dont prepare for the worst, prepare to walk and know survival skills!!
It's a totally f on
tittlemouse92 Success will depend on your tire choice and how it fits your specific rim. This part can be pretty challenging and requires experimentation, sometimes trying different tires. I have 2 or 3 brands of tires and rims I know work well and I stick with them. I don't recommend WTB. Their quality is inconsistent and poor in my opinion. Especially considering their price. We have frequent issues with them in my shop. More than any other brand we sell. Ghetto is not for those who aren't creative and good with tools. I build all sorts of things all the time! You must have patience and determination. The 1st time might be frustrating awkward and unsuccessful. Keep at it! Learn from mistakes and keep trying until you perfect your method and technique. Its a very crafty process and it's a bit more work than the store bought variety. Especially at first. Its well worth it in my opinion.
PATIENCE is key!! You'll definately need it. It gets easier with practice the more tires you set up. I can set up a tire now in about 20 minutes. I have probably a dozen sets of wheels for all my bikes and most are ghetto'd. I know almost exactly what works for my rims and tires. ALWAYS initially inflate dry to test the seal so you don't waste sealant. But don't cut off the excess tube until everything's perfect and sealant is installed. A good set up should hold air for at least 15 minutes. Ive had some that seal up for a week without any sealant.
Go on Ali Clarksons channel and find his ghetto tubeless videos. Its pretty instructive. There's plenty more here on the tube and online. Its been so long (20 years?!) I forgot where I learned about it. Probably on MTBR or another website.
Ali glues the tubes up the sides of the tires for heavy duty dh and trials use. I just cut it as close as I can to the top edge of the rim. I'm more of a marathon xc rider. And thats the last and trickiest step. I like to use brand new single edge razor blades to do this part. Be patient and work slowly. The hardest part is figuring out how to hold the razor blade steady and trim off the excess tube in a clean and neat manner. I have a park TS2 truing stand and that helps immensely for bracing my hand. You may have to rig something up if you don't do much wheel building and truing.
Watch Ali's video or any ghetto split tube video, let me know your thoughts and if I can help. Its just too many words and steps to type out. If I was a faster typist I would!
tittlemouse92 On Ali's channel look for
vlog 35
The awesome thing about ghetto is that the rubber tire is sealing on a rubber 'rim strip' you'll create with the split tube. You use a latex based sealant which is essentially rubber. A perfect sealing situation! Also that pesky valve seal on 'regular' tubeless is non existent, removing this liability in the system. You don't have to worry about pumping up your tire and breaking that tiny unreliable seal. This is one of my main reasons to use ghetto! I adjust tire pressure once or twice a ride, especially on my 'cross bikes where some road riding is involved to get to and from the trail.
Regarding tire fit, you use the rim tape to adjust the tire seat diameter and create a good seal.
Since tires and rims aren't all the same diameter where they interface, this can cause some tires to fit really loose or conversely some too tight.
The ideal situation is a tight tire that can still be removed with a tire lever. You definately want it tight, but if you do rip out a sidewall, you would need to clean up the mess and install a tube to keep riding. You don't want a tire so tight you're breaking levers to get them off! I did rip a tire once about 20 miles into a 50 mile ride way outside of Downieville CA and I was alone and on my own. ALWAYS carry a tube or 2, levers, a tire 'boot' (something to keep the tube from popping out of a torn tire) such as a dollar bill, energy bar wrapper etc. I carry a piece of industrial vinyl material. Carry A REAL PUMP, the largest you can manage, latex gloves, and a rag and even a patch kit! Lots of people use the new plug kits, but Ive never needed to. In 20 years of ghetto I've had maybe a handful of failures. I ripped a couple tires, I rolled a tire cornering hard on pavement when I neglected to pump up before a ride. I let too much air out on a ride once and rolled the tire in a slow technical rooty and rutted section of trail. These were mostly my error or tears that happen to any tire. It was never the tubeless system at fault which is actually pretty common on 'regular' store bought tubeless. I can count these failures on one hand over 20 years. Ive ridden well over 100000 miles and numerous huge rough rides in lots of seriously technical terrain. So Im pretty confident with my personal techniques. You have to develop your own through experience.
So getting back to tape, I use Gorilla BRAND tape. Excellent product And inexpensive. This specific tape has a great adhesive that doesn't get sticky or messy as it gets old or exposed to heat. Its so good you can remove it and reuse it for something else. Don't use any other cheap duct tape!! You'd be sorry! Gorilla is thick so sometimes I can't use it with too tight tires. Then I use the overpriced Stans tape. Its much thinner and can be doubled up to create just the right seal on the tire. You can find the identical 3m tape if you do some online searching, it's much cheaper. I use leftover Stans tape I get free at work.
If you get a tire that is so loose it won't seal with 2 layers of gorilla tape, don't use the tire. If your rim is way small and this is the problem consider a new rim or not doing the ghetto set up with that wheel. In a word, RELIABILITY!'
To me, reliability is ultra important and I won't use anything that's not rock solid reliable. That's why I like ghetto. I ride to very remote places frequently alone where there is no help and cell phone service. One particular state park (Henry Coe S. P.) is 80000 acres. The largest in N. Wackofornia. Ive spent several days out there riding, camping and exploring! A bad breakdown could mean literally days of walking for me and possibly something much worse. I NEED to be entirely self sufficient and confident in my gear as well as my ability to fix any mishap!
The last thing I'll mention is sealant. I like Orange seal. We sell it, Stan's and the new Muck Off sealant in my shop. All the staff uses Orange seal pretty successfully, but so far the pink Muck Off has been pretty good too. Stans is the original and works ok in a pinch. There is ammonia in their mix. It smells like old piss after being in a tire for awhile! But worst of all, that ammonia can eat alloy nipples if it leaks under the tape. Ive seen customers wheels literally fall apart because of Stans!! Nasty stuff! I recommend brass nipples on wheels anyhow for various longevity reasons. Alloy nipples are just silly in my mind.
There are also homebrew recipes for sealant that Ive tried, but Idont think they're worth the hassle. Ive wanted to try Monster Seal which is a 4WD product, and probably cheaper. But Orange works great, I always have it available. It lasts longer than most up to 6 month. Whatever you choose check your tires every month by shaking them next to your ear to hear the sealant sloshing around.
Sorry about my 'tangents' there! I hope this is helpful. I know it's a lot to digest, but it's actually pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Maybe read my words a few times and take notes!! Feel free with questions. I'd love to get more people using ghetto. Ghetto is awesome as youll see in Ali's trials antics!
Most riders are just too lazy and impatient. All my riding buddies think I'm nuts!
But as my Grampa taught me, "Take the time to do it right, once and for all, or just don't bother doing it at all."
tittlemouse92 I think that was the wrong video. Not the one I originally saw and Ive never used that cushcore stuff I can't find the video I saw. Try this one:
ua-cam.com/video/kx_yvln1Kus/v-deo.html
It's pretty basic. Should be a good place to start.
tittlemouse92 Heres another good one:
ua-cam.com/video/ByBAItDM3Ws/v-deo.html
I think I'm bored. It's sunny, I'm goin' ridin'!
Thanks for the truly helpful videos. Way more true to life than most.
should repost/update this video, super helpful, just found it now after been subbed for months, would love to know other things you've learned since and your experience with tubeless, never tried
I just bought a bike on Craigslist which I only now discovered has a tubeless setup. I'm a little nervous about my first inevitable struggle with these, but kind of excited too. This video, I think, will go a long way toward preventing at least a couple of mistakes. For instance, I DO have a compressor, but it would never have occurred to me to use it to inflate bicycle tires. Great tips, and thanks for sharing the benefit of your experience.
Man, this was such a great video! I think your tips are really going to help make it easier for those in the process of converting. I agree. It really can be a pita. But I honestly think once you get everything dialed it it is your most bombproof configuration. I also found it was best to go straight to soapy water when I'm first seating the tire. And if you didn't already know about the stans injector might give it a shot on your next conversion. I think it's only ten bucks.
I have been running tubeless since 2013. Growing up in Arizona you had three options riding off road. Go tubeless, run super heavy triple kevlar tires, or replace tubes every five miles (no none of those other gimmicks work there). When I switched from 26 to 29 I ditched the Kevlar tires and went tubeless. It wasn't the greatest set up but it was better than nothing. Than my wife got some Mavic UST rims and tires that I found could easily be set up with a floor pump. From then on I understood the importance of having a tubeless ready wheel and tire.
Even though I now live in Idaho and thorns are less prevalent the peace of mind is still worth it to me, it's nice to not have to worry about flats. Not only that but tubeless set ups ride a lot nicer IMO, and with MTB tires and larger there is a measurable weight savings as well.
Yes, you can have a shop do it a lot faster but it's always better to know how to do something yourself in my opinion. Plus you are going to have to refresh that sealant, pay a shop every time and that's going to add up.
Awesome, awesome tips! I would think one of the other benefits of tip #4, inflating a tube in the tire to "seat" the tire beads is the tube, when expanding inside the tire and against the rim, will help "press" and effectively "seat" the newly installed tape against the little nooks and crannies of the interior rim.Thanks so much for this great video!
Excellent Video! Tip for tubeless newbies: Lezyne Pressure Overdrive model floor pump. The pump has an air reservoir that you fill first, then release a fast, large volume of air at once by flipping a foot lever. Tubeless is a pain in the ass, but it is worth it in the southwest where you can pick up six goat-head thorns in the front and back tire at the same time. I was almost crying in the garage one night trying to set up new tires cleaning up old sealant, taping, valves, tires. Egad, even mounting tubeless tires can make you reach for the whiskey!
knowledge is POWER. thanks for the tips. DIY everything!!!!
Great video. I’m rebuilding my Surly LHT and making the jump to tubeless. It will be this weekend’s project. We shall see....
Ah, Tubeless. My general experience has been that it’s a massive pain in the arse to set up but once you’ve sort it it, it really is brilliant.
Hey. Thanks for the video.
It really gave me a good idea in which direction to go starting out tubeless. But there is no question. Tubeless is the way to go. So many struggles avoided after taking out the tubes. I found a good method for keeping pressure after your done inflating and the tyre is seated is to rotate and bounce the wheel off the ground several times. Maybe for about 5 minutes. Personally I have had some excellent results doing this.
Love the channel. Good motivation for myself.
Thanks! Getting a new bike built up and have never had tubeless before. I am planning on doing some trips where the tubeless benefits will be needed (remote off road touring) so these tips are a good starting point for when I take the plunge.
Thank you for all the good tips.
Tubeless is the way to go for me. To add to your dry test. If a fully pumped tire looks good, no need to unseat the tire again to add sealant. Hopefully you bought removeable core valve stems. Just deflate the tire, remove the valve core, and then squeeze in some sealant. Reinflate.
MrHockaluger best comment ever
Tubeless is not the X factor people make out, And when you do get a problem It's a real pain in the ass to sort! I just put sealant in my tubes and carry foam for any moments... Job done!
How stupid ! [ The host can be ... ( no offense ). Just use the inner tube itself to contain the slime sealant itself . "Wanna" a better 'tubeless' than the tube ITSELF ????!???? So help me Lord!!!!!
Manuel Luis,the thing is,it isn’t tubeless if you’ve got a tube in🤣🤣to be honest tubeless is a real pain in the arse if you don’t use the bike enough like me 👍
I find tubeless setups get more tricky with higher pressure tires (like road bike tires). Lower pressure setups (like mountain bike) are much easier. Gravel bike is sort of in between. Depends on the tire width. Anyway, use a tube to "cure" the system and leave it overnight. After removing the tube, use a brush to paint a little sealant on the bead then hit it with a floor pump or compressor (best). At this point it's dry mounted (no sealant added yet). Leave it dry mounted. Get a spray bottle and put soapy water in it. Spray the spoke nipples and value stem and check for bubbles. If everything was done properly, there should be no bubble and the tire should hold air for hours (or even overnight) dry mounted. The longer it hold air dry mounted the better your setup is. (use it like a gauge). After all that, I recommend injecting the sealant into the tire through the valve hole. Remove core first obviously. Re-inflate. Now bounce the wheel around or pick it up and shake it around to splash the sealant around the inside of the tire. Re-install the wheel onto the bike and take it for a short ride. It should be very solid setup after that!
Out-freaking-standing video! It is to the point...and an honest presentation. I have a relatively new tubeless set-up that due to family and health circumstances beyond my control, my bike sat for a couple years. Happily, now riding my bike, one of my Stans is not holding air. I am assuming the sealant is old...and now I think I need to “rebuild” it (new tape, new sealant, etc). My guess is, that even after watching / listening to your experience, I will STILL make some of those mistakes!! I will definitely buy more tape than I “think” I need!
GREAT VIDEO. Now I'm interested in how you'll feel in 6 months, and how much of a pain it is to clean out the gunk and put in new gunk. I'm on the bubble for my commuter bike and I'm relying on YOU to help me figure it all out.
You may have just saved us some time. Thanks mate. Great video
Nice video I've been thinking about going to tubeless myself.
Wow thanks for this video. Made me realize that I love tubes. So many comments on here detract the simplicity of just getting out there to ride!
Thanks for the video...and thanks all for the comments! Going tubeless on my fatty, got my tape and sealant and tires on the way. Don't know what I'd do without UA-cam, I swear!
Great tips, thanks. I’d like to mention another point, which is to refill with new sealant. Depending on climate/ temperatures, it could be as often as every 3 months. I opened a mtb tyre which I had set up tubeless 6 months prior and the sealant was mostly turned to rubberised gunk.
Good video. I have some tips that may help. Firstly as already said it is about tolerance. I now put the tyre on the rim I'm converting before any tape, both sides, to give me an idea of how easy the job is going to be and how much tape to use. I had one tyre to rim that was so tight at this stage I broke a lever and gave up. The tyre worked with another wheel so wasn't wasted. Then electrical tape is what I use to seal the spoke holes, starting at either 3 or 9 o clock to the valve hole 2 wraps erring to one side of the rim and then to the other does the sealing job. If the tyre was tight that's enough. If loose I add a layer of a thicker tape, we call it gaffer tape here, a tape that can rip from the roll to the desired rim width. A loose tyre might require one layer or two. Again out comes the electrical tape for another thin layer of 2 wraps. This may sound like a lot of tape, but I am describing for a loose tyre. Other times I've gotten away with say 4 wraps of electrical tape. Advantages over specific tubeless tape are price, especially if you stuff up and building up the fit slowly. Weight would end up similar. The desired tightness is to require one tyre lever to seat the final part of the second bead, not two and a litre of sweat. One day you may need to get it off! Like now. Next is the valve. I use continental valves cut out of old road tubes. You need to be able to remove the core for a floor pump adaptor to inject as much air in quickly. I just make a tiny hole with a needle and screw the valve through the tape for a tight fit. I leave very little rubber from the old tube around the valve, otherwise it gets in the way of the tyre beads. Fit and screw the little round locking nut on the outside of the wheel tightly and keep tightening from time to time as you complete the next steps. Seat the tyre both sides and inflate with a liberal coating of soapy suds everywhere to about 30psi. More and it can explode off the rim. The tyre should pop into place, if not you might need more tape! Painfully this would mean removing the valve and drying the tyre and wheel so try and judge your tape to tyre tightness before getting this far. One lever remember, not doable with hands alone. Finally you are ready to remove the pump, let out all the air and refit the valve core. Peel back about a quarter of the tyre on one side to pour in your sealant of choice. Using a wheel stand or suspending the wheel or having an assistant is handy. Refit, add more soapy side everywhere and it should now pump up easily. 30 psi is again more than enough. Spin it, ride it, add more soap bubbles, swill the liquid wherever you see soapy air action, which you shouldn't. Then you're done for at least 6 months when you might need to add a bit more sealant if warm weather, or when your tyre tread runs out. Oh yes, after the first 5 minute ride you can let out air to the desired pressure. I go as low as 15 for front 29er 2.3 mtb tyres, 20 on the back. Grip is improved and punctures are now fixed without taking the wheel out of the frame with a product like the Samurai sword. I've had to do that only twice in 11 years of running my DIY tubeless, both in the last year and never had to use the spare tube. You will soon have favourite tyres because they were the ones that were easy to fit! I can see the benefit of inflating with a tube to seat one bead so I'm going to try that, but a good dry fit does the same thing. Good luck.
Very detailed and informative John....can see exactly where you're coming from in relation to fine tuning/reducing the gap between tyre and rim with tape to make it easier to pressurise and get seated...Ta
I went tubless and used finish lines long lasting sealant. No issues yet with lightsingle track riding on 275+ tyres. A garden weed pressure sprayer is a great hack to use instead of a compressor. The water inlet tube inside the bottles can replace the hard nozzle extension (hard pipe between nozzle and trigger) and the water inlet tube matches a presta vale perfectly. There are a few vids online about it.
Short version: it's all about tolerances. Long version: It's all about tolerances. You can't depend on a loose-fitting tire. You can't depend on a rim that's undersized -- either diameter or width. If the diameter is too small, the tire can slide around and possibly pop into the rim bed's central well. If the width is too small (e.g. half the width of your tire), it's not well-supported during cornering, and can lead to burping and rolling it off the rim. You can't depend on a rim without a bead shelf -- it keeps a (properly sized) tire pushing against the rim sides, and thus sealed -- without it the bead can more easily slide into the rim's central channel. You can't depend on a tire with bumps of rubber on the bead (from where rubber was injected during molding) -- just another pinhole through which air/sealant can leak. Clip them off with nail clippers. You can't depend on tape that's too narrow (narrower than the bed and sealant can seep under it). It needs to come up the sides just enough so the air pressure smushes it between the bead and the rim sidewall -- that's what keeps the sealant from seeping underneath. You can't depend on thick tape, as it rounds out the bead shelf, neutralizing it. You can't depend on a tire whose bead is kinked or stretches. Get tires with soft rubber coatings on the bead, preferably square-ish in profile, as that's more surface area to mate to the rim sidewall. Mavic's tubeless rims (e.g. the new Open Pro with the 'whale humps' like on Zipp NSW's) are great because they have very tight tolerances and a bead shelf. Nox rims also have the shelf, tight tolerances, and with say, Maxxis ReFuse or Panaracer Gravel King SKs, seal with just a floor pump and not even any sealant. I'm sure there are other combinations (Boyd rims come to mind), but these are known to be easy and reliable to work with.
Bead shelf you say... For a noob this is probably the thing that should go at the start of any tubeless how to video. Check if your rim has a bead shelf. To be fair who would knowingly buy a replacement for a damaged rim without one?
Thanks for this useful insight.
Your lessons learned are right on!! One other thing that has been very important for me is removal no the valve core for initial inflation and then injecting sealant through the coreless valve.
Scott Booth lolol! How fun was it figuring that out? I had it spill all over until the light turned in my head.
Tubeless is a funny thing. Ive had lots of issues with a certain rim and tyre combo, and Ive had zero issues with other rim tyre setups. It it hit and miss for me! But once its working well there is no better option. With us though, because we travel by plane often, letting down the tyres by only a few psi is best otherwise there could be sealant all over the inside of the box when you go to unpack! Another nice video!
Two Wander Yonder 8
Ugh, i'm about to go at try #3 on my back tire. First attempt, sealant leaking at rim and wouldn't hold air for more than a few hours. Cleaned everything and retried. After second attempt, sealant leaking at valve stem and flat after about 24 hours. Try number 3 I'm going to pay extra attention to that tape, and make the smallest hole possible.
Front tire of course worked first try no problems.
Thanks for the tips!
I'm actually thinking of going back to tubes. I never had a problem with them and life was simpler with them....for casual riding.
Well, I am cycling around 15000km/year and had this year my first two flats with tubes. Tubeless is the way to go in mountainbiking as I heard, but with all other bikes tubes do great.
My problems with tubes were common sense problems and easier to repair (or get repaired at my local bike shop). Went tubeless 3 years ago and never ending problem with tire. 3 different repair shops, tire replace twice - valves gumming up and today gel leaked out, valve came apart and can't get air in now. Would not go this route again.
@@sebastianr1204 or you can put sealant inside tubes like i did
@@ForkInTheButt have you had a puncture that had sealed with the sealant in the tube ?
I cut a old tube all the way around and use it as a buffer between the tire and new tube .
I have hit a couple of 3 inch jagged rocks that they use here to fill pot holes and this time no flat .
For casual riding there’s no need for tubeless
I recently also switched to tubeless. I watched dozens of videos, and nowhere is mentioned the many problems that I encountered. The most important - rim tape. It should be wider than the rim, and it should be laid in the center with a finger.
thank you Russ, making all the mistakes so we don't have to!
You have listed out all the lessons I've learnt with money and sweat, lol
I just love watching your videos. You have a really soft calm voice, like Mr. Rogers.
Ok, 1) first pump up your bank account, and set aside a lot of time, get ready for a lot of web surfing and garage time, 2) get the right tubeless wheels, 3) get the right tubeless tires, 4) get an air compressor or air compressor type pump, 5) get the right sealant (environ friendly, CO2 compatible, repair bacon compatible, never mix sealant brands), 6) get a tubeless tire repair kit including A) a tubeless valve stem tool B) a tubeless hole repair tool and bacon strips, C) CO2 cartridges [2 min], D) CO2 inflator tool , E) good tire tools, F) extra valve stems with removable cores, G) you may need 10-12 zip ties and a cutter - the zip ties can be used to lightly press the tire to the wheel in hopes of promoting a better tire-to-wheel seal before you use your last CO2 cartridge - there are different zipping strategies for different tires 7) labor: mounting and sealing for the 1st time can be really messy - get a sealant syringe or lots of rags and soapy water 8) If you get air leakage, go back to shop or garage, take tire off, check the sealing tape, if needed, clean wheel and tire and valve stem with warm soapy water, dry and start all over, buy a better brand of tape, buy a lot of tape, remount tire, remount valve stem, add new sealant, 9) for adventurers far from help, its always smart to carry an inner tube - say what? . . . OR just do what 95% of professional bike racers do - just forget the tubeless cure-worse-than-the-disease craziness and use a really good tube (e.g. Specialized, Michelin, Conte) inflated to a reasonable pressure and go riding. :)
Or go to a shop and do it for 35 dollars
It's literally not rocket science... you put some tire goo in the correct tire and rims and you're good to go no flats no issues you can go low pressure it's great
Not gonna convert to tubeless cuz wheels aren't tubeless ready. Better save up $ for a brand new gravel.
@@CERVEZAslamor just dont spend an extra 35 dollars on the 300 dollars you already spent going tubeless
Hahaha you said it all.
What precautions do you take to reduce punctures when you have tubes? I used to get a flat every 3rd ride. Now with tubeless, i have gotten thorns but no flats. Now my wife just bought a 2016 trek 520 that’s not compatible. I put stans in the tire but is there a sealant, tire or something else that’s better?
I started tubeless in 2003 when tires and rims were not set-up well for mounting. Today, with tubeless ready rims and tubeless specific tires, it's a breeze....once you seal your rim- as your video noted. Tens of thousands of miles logged tubeless, and I'll only mount a tube in an emergency, never as a first choice. This only applies to cross bikes (gravel today) and mountain bikes. I'm currently running 14.5 psi on Schwalbe Nobby Nics on a rigid titanium Salsa El Mariachi and she runs fine. Finish Line offers a sealant with carbon strips in the fluid; and, it doesn't dry-up, it's ammonia free. I just break the seal every three months, wipe-out the old sealant and rubber tumbleweeds, and add new sealant- beats trailside repairs while hoping to beat the setting sun on a ride back home.
i would add these “musts”: use a special tubeless valve with rubber o-ring to seal, this must have a removable core (this is also easy to remove on the trail so you can install an innertube to get you home to troubleshoot), use soapy foam/water to help the second bead pop, the soapy water will also bubble to help identify tiny leaks on both sides so you can rotate/shake the sealant to seal, put in an inner tube over night at 40psi to help seal the tape to the rim before adding sealant, this is all for weight savings but i’ve put the sealant in the inner tube on my commuter where i didn’t care about weight but still have the benefits of the sealant, make sure you run enough pressure so the tire doesn’t roll off the rim on off-camber trails.
Went tubeless in 2009. Didn't have any issues because I did my research beforehand and knew all of this. Most of it was in YT vids on Stan's website. But awesome info for the inexperienced here. I would like to add that before tape installation you should thoroughly clean the rim with solvent so that the tape adheres properly.
Great video thank you great tips. I really like the tube tip to seat half the tire. Now why didn’t I think of that! 😅
Good to know. I'm totally on my own so all of this is very helpful.
One question: Do you know what size of rim tape you need for a 19-622 rim?
Thanks again, cheers!
Just get Gorilla brand tape at the hardware store. Its a great value at $5 per roll. You can cut or tear it to the right width. You want the edges of tape to come up just short of the bead’s hooks.
The best thing about gorilla tape is its thick, it has great adhesive that doesnt make a mess, its reusable and its tough.
If you have really tight tires it might not work, in that case use something thin like Stans.
I didn't realize you weren't tubeless. I've been tubeless for a couple years now and have done a fair amount of setups and some go easy and some don't. Part if it is due to the fact that there isn't a standard that the companies follow. I agree with you on making sure you do a good job with your tape and I like your tip on cutting an x, I'm going to try that!
Helpful - not yet made the jump. Thanks.
More expensive at the beginning yes but I get a lot of puncture during my commute and tubeless eventually saved the hustle overall. Pinch punctures fixes themselves as you ride, as witnessed it myself several times. You can get stronger tyre surely with tube option but tubeless is the lighter on the weight. First time I converted I went with the local bike shop but this I am doing it myself and definitely finding it harder. But learning this process is part of the fun.
I went tubeless on 700cx32 tires. Running about 60psi whereas I was at 90 before. Much more comfortable and bike doesn't slide in loose gravel anymore. Not worrying about flats is great. Front worked first time, but I did have a lot of trouble setting up rear wheel. Original tire would not seal properly no matter what. After replacing with tubeless specific tire, found air would escape in bursts from valve area. There was also a small leak from rim metal joints but sealant plugged that right up. After replacing rim tape, tires now keep pressure for weeks.
I just converted to tubeless today on my Giant Stance 29er. The hardest thing for me (by far) was getting the sealing tape on neatly so that that it was completely flat against the rim. Also, highly recommend using an injection system or syringe to get the sealant into the tire through the stem. I did the first without a syringe, pouring the sealant in and inflating to seal bead, and it was more difficult and messy than using the syringe method.
We've been running tubeless for a couple years now and the biggest problem was tire manufacturer's having different tolerances to the different rims.
So the dry run is a great way to find this out before you make a big expensive mess.
Small tip, when inflating initially, put a bit of pressure with your thumb on they tyre by the valve. It helps get it started without having to pump like a crazy person. Hope this helps
When i convert my non tubeless rim on tubeless tyre its hard to assemble, it so much pain my hands, but i dont know what to do next ( roadbike i use when i convert it)
I recently got into tubeless setup on my giant trance (tubeless ready rims) with the help of gmbn and Clint gibbs UA-cam tutorials. I'm absolutely loving tubeless setup. But yeah, I had some issues inflating the tyre (single side bead as you mentioned) but air kept leaking and was really frustrating. Dry pumping would have helped preventing messy results.
Now, like you I'm quite confident about troubleshooting true related issues while I'm in trail.
I'd say similar experience as yours 😉
I just converted my non-tubeless rims with some Gorilla Tape and just pressed the valve in without poking a hole first. Got them to seat first try with my regular floor pump, then deflated and added sealant. Holding up great at 30psi on the rocky LA gravel descents
For final inflation of my tube-less set-up I used a CO2 cartridge to ram as much 'air' as possible as fast as I could into the tire. Using a floor-pump just didn't cut it. They now make a floor pump that can hold a much larger volume of air for things like fat bike tires, and possibly tube-less demands. Nice video! Thanks.
The use of a compressor makes the process waaaay easier. CO2 might work ok if you're lucky and have a perfect fit the 1st time. If you have a challenging combo of tire and rim, you could go thru lots of co2 canisters.
A simple inexpensive paint compressor or portable auto compressor works fine and can be used for lots of other tasks around the house. They're not very expensive and can be found used. Mine I bought used from a neighbor and it's worked fine for over 15 years for not only tires, but air tools, painting and car repairs.
I converted my non-tubeless Dyad rims using tubeless-ready tires (Schwalbe AlMotions) about four years ago and have never looked back. No flats since then and no maintenance other than dumping in a bit of sealant every six months or so. The lower pressures are a welcome and comfortable change.
awesome tips thank you
I appreciate the knife idea!
I went tubeless on my mountain bike. I had such good luck with it that I converted my gravel bike too. But, I had non-stop issues with the gravel bike. I really think tubeless works better at lower psi's such as you find on a mountain bike. I have since converted my gravel bike back to tubes.
What would you say, what's the ideal tape width in relation to the inner width of your rim?
I've been riding tubes since 2001 and no problem so far , if I get a flat , I carry a case with patches , sandpaper and tire levers and a mini pump attached to the frame ( 15 minutes and I'm back riding ) and I also have helped a lot of riders on the trails .
@Michael Paul I live in Miami , Florida ; most of the trails lack of sharp rocks and that kind of stuff . I don't do air or rock gardens ... bad , bad experiences . I like long flowy trails .
@Michael Paul You are right , my friend ; I've seen videos of mountain biking in Texas and there so many rocks and sharp surfaces , same shit with Arizona .
Where did you get the tripod to hold the bicycle at eye level?
Hi mate, so I can't get my tyre to seat (Using Joe's sealant), on a dry run.
Do I need more tape?! There must be a way to open a Schrader and just put it into the inner tube?
Try tape and then the using an inner tube to seat one bead trick.
I've been considering going tubeless when I replace my tyres soon. But watching this I'm back to being unsure again.
Check out the floor pump (with a pressure tank) made by Lezyne; it DEFINITELY makes the process easier.
I use solid rubber tires on my 2 Huffy bike cruisers. These tires are actually filled with hard foam. Supplier is out of Houston, TX (Husky Bicycles). Takes thicker gauge spokes to support. Rougher ride but no flats.
Tubless on my Karate monkey from the start ,no problems. After years of riding tubes and high end road bikes ,changed my style completely, bought a Gunnar Hyper X flat mount "gravel" bike, Dt Swiss C1800 wheel set Teravail 700c x 38 tires. Running these tubeless , love it but still having issues with slow air loss. Good tips on the tape job, thanks!
Brandon Sumner Try some Clement Xplor Tubeless tires. Very high quality versatile tires. I set some up that held 70 psi for 10 days with no sealant!!
Good tips. You forgot the golden rule to seat the tires bead initially: REMOVE the valve core. You need the most airflow you can get to get it into the beadseat. Dry seating would be the second most important step. To find leaks soapy water is excellent as it bubbles even when it's just little air escaping the rim. For rim tire combos that are too loose there is a great product: Skinny Stripper. Originally these latex rimstrips were developed for fatbikes as FattyStripper (fun to google the product, especially with the wife looking over your shoulder). Fatbike used to be difficult to setup early on. The manufacturer realized that for cyclocross the needs are similar. Basically it's a latex rimstrip that overlaps over the beadseat reducing the gap between tire and rim, making it a lot easier to fit the tire tubeless. Once it's seated you trim the overlap with an exacto knife or a blade and off you go. Works very well.
I just completed a tubeless wheelset and now I know what he means. :-)
I just went tubeless and had to redo the tape. 1 week later and they are both still leaking but not as bad as the first time. I think you really need to pump up the tyres hard and go for a ride and keep doing that over and over until they seal properly
Nice video
Still haven’t yet converted to tubeless and about two.
What I would like to know from you now, in hindsight, is whether or not the right quality, mixed with the ability to go lower pressure is revolutionary or not?
I am a newbie with all of this and really not clear that with the bigger tires in an inner tube if you’re limited in how low your tire pressure can go? Obviously with the older much smaller tires, You would have had a pinch flat if you tried lowering the pressure much at all
Thank you...i ride bmx and everyone i ride with won't switch over...too worried ...but i havnt had to buy tubes because i ride tubeless and they always catch flats...ill show them this video it is perfect to help them eliminate mistakes.
converting my bmx to tubeless is the probably the best upgrade to my bike
I went tubeless for a year here in Nor Cal and the benefits didn't outweigh the hassle, I'm happy with tubes for now.
Bro!! Yeah what a pain in the a**!!! All the problems you in countered without a bike shop nearby to get more tape. The compressor was clutch for seating the tires to the rim but overall, totally worth it!!!
Julie's Invite is tubeless and constantly losing pressure in both but mainly the rear. Have removed, cleaned, reseated, checked the valve, tyre, etc. Now we carry an extra tube which I've never had to do before... Ironic 🙄
Can you make a normal tube tire tubless by doing a good tape job and getting the right valve stem?
Ive been trying on my non folding wtb bee lines and cant get the bead to seat there seems to to be a lot of room almost like the tyre size is to big.
I have two additions.
1. Thoroughly clean the rim with isopropanol or brake cleaner before applying the rim tape.
2. After applying the tape (in my case also by Stans Notubes) I use a hair dryer to heat up the rim and tape. I press the tape to the rim with my thumb. So it is easier to achieve a good contact between rim and tape. So all air bubbles disappear. This works best when the rim is mounted in the bike.
How much is service cost in your area? Where I'm from the LBS charge $2 to install tubeless 😅 that's already two tires. And about $12 for the kit (tubeless valve, sealant, and tape).
I reverted back from tubeless to tubes. I've Ryde Taurus 21 rims with Maxxis Minion DHF tyre in front. The biggest, and frankly the only problem I encountered was air leaking around valve. Last valve I tried was Effetto Mariposa Caffe which has conical rubber fitting. I tightened the screw on valve only by my hand, no tools were used.
I pumped it up to ~45psi. I was loosing pressure slowly, it stabilized around 38 psi ( I ride ~30psi). Next day I went on pump track and rode around for a bit. All seemed ok.
After two days when I came back I had very low pressure (10psi). I pumped it up to 35 but air was leaking around valve more rapidly now. Later I found out that the rubber fitting was destroyed and pushed back too much into rim.
For the time being I gave up on this setup. Maybe that rim is just not good enough for the valve. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I always use a bit of soapy water on the unseated rim when "dry mounting". The soapy water helps to slide the bead onto the rim and where air is still leaking it will bubble up. I know to keep pumping air in till the soap bubbles stop. Then I release the air from the valve, remove valve core and insert the sealant (either with a syringe and tube or some Stan's sealant comes with a needle nose cap). Less chance of getting sealant everywhere.
Do tubeless tires work better with fat tires (i.e. 650B), given that they run well at lower pressures?
I went the other direction. When it came time to replace my wheelset, I took a step backward and went tubular. With the advent of and improvements in adhesive rim tape, mounting tubulars is easy and clean. No more permanent gunk on your hands and mounting them true without any wobble can been handled even by a luddite like myself. They're always going to be lighter than clinchers, tubed or tubless and there are still plenty of midrange tire options. Give it a thought.
not recommended for anyone living in a city. not recommended for longer rides.
Tubular tires ARE the ultimate in performance still used by professional racers. It allows using the very lowest pressures ESPECIALLY on cyclocross set ups.
It only makes common sense for racing, where you have cornering abilities to push your tires to the absolute limits of traction.
Tubular tires are the most expensive and time consuming tire set ups there are on bicycles.
Always use the highest quality most expensive tires. The best sew ups are handmade. Cheap sew ups are not worth the bother and they suffer from constant flats.
My pro quality tires never got flats until the tires wore too thin.
If you buy pro quality tubular tires at a shop and want the shop to install them, you can be looking at a $200+ tire setup. PER TIRE. That's the cost of nice quality automotive tires!
Hi, One option I like is to use a rim strip. You also have to use the yellow tape (if it is a Stans conversion) but the strip helps the tire to seat better, especially if the rim is not tubeless. I have converted several sets of wheels and have never had a problem. I'm even Still using the same 26 inch pair of strips in my current 27.5 rims,
Check out the ghetto split tube method. Its very similar to those conversion strips ( those work great btw)
Ghetto is far cheaper, works just as well and is just a little more effort. I havent had a failure (that wasnt my negligence!) in 14 YEARS!!!
Instead of installing and inflating a tube, after you tape your rim, just spray soapy water down into the bead all the way around both sides of the wheel and inflate to seat the bead that way. The soapy water will help the tire slide into the bead easier and if there are any leaks you will see the soapy water bubble and you can address that before you fill with sealant. Once you filled the tire with the air that you want and know there are no leaks then just pull the valve core to release the air, add your sealant, and reinflate. I also then spritzed the bead area again with the soapy water after reinflation just to make sure there were no other leaks.
How long does sealant last? Is it easy to clean up?
Dryer hotter conditions it dries up quicker. Usually good for a few months IME. Would refill before any major tour or event. Fairly easy to clean up. Sticky.
i used garilla tape and it worked the first time on both tires no probs and stans.
Well, I had the VERY special case with WTB Riddler 700x37C tan sidewall pair of tires recently. They've been perfectly mounting dry, losing 4-5 psi overnight, which I found fine with any pair of tires I had before, mainly from Schwalbe though, then they were holding air perfectly with sealant, like 1-2 psi a day, which is even more like measuring error, and after a 2-5 days usually in the morning I find my bike grounded on rims, and re-inflating the tire is not an option already, it'll deflate completely in a couple of hours now.
I've tried to find a bend on the rim, attempted to re-glue the sealing tape, I switched couple of brands of tape and sealant, I even got Effeto Mariposa's latex reusable sealant Strip, which is thick and in my opinion could help rim bed to be more air tight, but no luck at all, and the scenario had always been the same: perfect beginning but complete fail of the setup in a couple of days with the need to completely re-mount tires.
Only reading other reviews with failed attempts to mount these tires (stated to be tubeless compatible!) tubeless on WTB's website convinced me to switching back to Schwalbe G-Ones, which cured the wheels for me.
Nice video!
Just a few quick questions (if anyone knows)
1. Recently I changed to tires that happen to be tubeless easy (TLE) ones and my bike mechanic asked me whether I wanted to try tubeless. I did so he hooked me up a pair of Schalbe G-ONE rather beefy tires as well as Schwalbe Doc Blue sealant. Now after 6 months I haven't had any flats on my adventure touring bike but I want to top up sealant. However I read on the internet that Stan's NoTubes Race sealant is a better choice compared to Schwalbe's Doc Blue (which is supposed to be the exact same sealant as Stan's regular TIRE sealant.
Can I just top up with Stan's NoTubes RACE sealant after a few months? or do I need to first remove the tire, clean it completely and then use Stan's RACE?
2. Stan's claims that their RACE sealant may not be injected through the valve since it is very likely to clog it. Can anyone confirm that, or do you guys tend to disagree with this statement.
3. Do you prefer Stan's RACE sealant over Stan's regular TIRE sealant for long distance bike travelling and adventure cycling?
4. I'm considering a Schwalbe Tire booster/aka Airshot compressor. Does anyone have experience with this compressor?
many thanks everyone for your potential reply.
Cheers from The Netherlands!
Tim Lange, I run 3.8in tires, so you might want to consider that with my answers. As long as I can hear sealant sloshing, I don’t clean out and replace the sealant. I’ve used Stan’s and Stan’s race, and I’m not sure the race stuff justifies the extra cost. I’ve tended to go with regular Stan’s and just use more (fatter tires). The bike shop guy told me the same thing about Stan’s race through the valve clogging it up, but I’ve used my small trail refill bottle to carefully (slowly) squeeze tubeless race sealant through the valve stem.
I’ve never used compressor or tire booster. On my fat tires, I wrap para cord around the circumference of the tire and cinch it, to kind of push the tire walls into the the rim better. Then a floor pump is good enough. For my 50mm tires, I just use a CO2 cartridge and that pings them right out.