Seeing you THIS passionate about learning and playing a faction really makes me quite excited. I would love to see just HOW impressive a dedicated Leaf can be, so don't let up man!
Maybe one day I'll do well again, who knows. I don't want to play the same way as everybody else, with easy to execute, low skill ceiling strategies. I want to win with something new and innovative, then its more satisfying when I do win eventually.
@@masterleafcnc I'm curious to see what you can do with R17, if you decide to take a break from ZOCOM. Feels like they're the worst rated faction, would be fun to see if you can work out any new meta with them.
Random strategy: you can order infantry into teammates hammerheads. Doing this with Blackhand is quite the combination. This may not work if depending if hammerhead is not idle. 🔥🔥🔥
glad to see you playing the game still. being competitive can be a big burn out so understand not doing that anymore. hope to still see your fun casual games though. by far my fave player to watch in action
These days I just play what I find fun, and I know I wont get the most broad audience by doing that - but I just want to do what I like and grind one faction for a while
During the game with all the hammerheads I was laughing a bit when i remembered a few games where you criticized your opponent for not getting tungsten ;)
Leaf, what If, u use a GDI Commando sneaking him into the enemy's base by faking a GDI tier 1 army attack (keeping him inside an APC which you pay extra attention to).However at the start you ''show'' the other player you go Firehawks so he focuses on AA.The tier 1 army could be the units u used at the start of the match and can spare.Some thoughts on this? Now the way u send the Commando into the other player's base could be different, you know these stuff better than me.
Leaf might be the only player that uses excessive hotkeys for legit everything also his cash keeps floding in the mid game proving his excellent micro with specific units,
I have been modding a lot, so I haven't really participated in any tournament, be it hosted by bikerush, panda etc My focus these days is not to be a competitive player, I'm finished with that actually.
I think in that zocom mirror game if we are being critical there were 2 main mistakes on your part. 1. A bit of a prioritization error with the harvesters in favor of microing zorca... which is understandable... 2. I can't help but feel there were moments mass infantry would have been better to APC, more Zorca, or whatever the hell else you were trying to find late game. I feel like you need at least a certain number of defensive forces in play before you can afford the air toys, and if that defensive force has been wiped out priority dictates blah blah blah. The rax's are good for this because you need only 1/2 X in defense forces before spending on air... and you can just "oh shit!" out the other half if needed... assuming you were on top of your harvesting. 3.Your late game efficiency was horrible that game. Trying to milk the Zorca was fine but the harvester issue parried with a refusal to have 3 raxs just in case shit gets real punished you over and over again it seems. All in all seems like a very "live and learn" lesson. I don't think you were expecting him to be so agro with small hit squads of Inf / APC... but such is where the power of Zocom really lies. In my mind I feel like the basic Rax in numbers, like 3-4 of them paired with an on point eco is by far the best defense for Zocom if you want to go air. You don't NEED or WANT to spend thousands of Tib on Infantry over zorca and the toys... but you can in seconds if need be and those "toys" should give you plenty of heads up warning. So against that huge attack you barely held, if you had 4 raxs pumping riffles it should have been laughably ineffective. But instead we building zorca, commando, marvs, zone raiders with an economy that hasn't been micro attended for ages. Was funny for because I saw you raxing out zone raiders in mass so I though you would make the easy call and just say "mass riffles time" since they pair perfectly with all those raiders already. Pretend your Black hand sometimes with zocom sometimes and know when that time is. My thoughts anyways. But if we just experimenting and seeing... that's fine. But shatts an't gunna stop that, APC an't gunna stop that (cost effectively at least), Zone raiders or even a zone marv an't gunna stop that (god help you if he had imp nades), Riffles are good and riffles pared with AOE is good. Here do me a favor sometime... an experimental one because I want to make this statement as fact about zocom infantry but needs testing. Zocom inf spam vs Black Hand Spam where Zocom in heavy on the riffles with some shatters or zone raiders mixed in... who wins? I am pretty sure if you test it, Zocom have the best infantry in the game if not straight up, 100% for sure when combined with other units. Do a 10K Zocom inf army vs a 10k Black Hand Inf army. Make them realistic so rockets, shatters, the like, heavy on the riffles / cabals... its a shockingly close fight that is slightly Zocom favored in my experience. Point is you can float tib for the toys... but have ability to turn tib into army in seconds should not be underestimated.
@@chavzone Nah they get tore up in my experience. Spreading the infantry is priority, but you are forgetting that those damn chem suits reduce the damage they take from tib based weapons. Its actually gross, I thought they would melt too. I LOVE MoK... but damned if the riffles don't just run over tib troopers, no shatter support needed. There is also a targeting delay issue on the tib troops, makes them kill 1-2 riffles before getting toasted. The marked on the other hand, no idea. They are some long ranged DPS, Beefy boys. But my moneys on the riffles tib for tib.
I agree with what you say, but sometimes it comes down to the map. Like say if you are playing tournament tower - and it descends into the black hand player having artillery, you're kinda screwed as zocom. I think the more open maps where multi mcv and artillery spam arent as potent zocom has all the chances in the world to win. Also I think rocket squads are better for meatshielding as they have more squad health compared to the riffle - plus act as anti air. But i will add in a bunch of riffles next time with my shatterer etc push and see what happens, the foxholes would probably be a good thing. The toys imo are what win the game, or the ion cannon. It's ok sometimes to float cash to spend it later on, on more cost effective units such as the firehawks which are a long term value
@@masterleafcnc Agree 100% Map is an issue. Might have to be VERY realistic with Zocoms limitations on certain maps vs certain factions and go Ion Cannon. Its not fun but if it was a tournament it would be the right call in most cases. Are we sure the rockets have more health? Math on units is goofy... X health with Y resists to Z damage types. Its also health per squad member, and the riffles are cheaper (300 vs 400 if memory servers) and then there is DPS. The riffles do constant, often ineffective, damage, where the rockets and Shatters fire slow as hell and are prone to over kill / missing. Since there were to many factors I just decided to test it out and I found that I was shocked at how effective it was. Need AP ammo and Chem Suits or it is laughable. The only other Advice I would have is that you MUST prioritize their spread over all things... watch your spacing. If you want some math behind it, go see how many AP ammo riffles sqauds = the Gun Damage DPS of a AP Hammer Head. I have never done this but I can't imagine its many. Sec let me go investigate curious now.
@@masterleafcnc Yeah your are right, on paper what I am saying makes no sense. Riffles are 300$, 450 HP, 50% Gun damage taken, and do 108 DPS with AP ammo. It would take 7 squads of them to = the DPS of 1 AP Hammer Head gunship. Which sounds suck since that 2,100$ not 1500... but HP wise... A bit of a bargain for that kind of damage on the ground. They are dead even with Missles Squads in tankyness if you want to think of it that way. 4 Riffles = 1800 HP at 1200 Tib Cost 3 Missiles = 1800 HP at 1200 Tib Cost Let me see how they match up HP and Damage to an APC... damage to 288 (Gun) per burst, with a 75% scalar versus infantry. (whatever that means) Time between bursts: .25 seconds, each burst lasts .4 seconds. OHHH See now THIS is interesting. I will have to go do some tests but what I think its saying is that APC's go pew pew pew every .65s bust are inclined to overkill squads like riffles requiring 6 bursts to wipe the squad where as vs missile squad it takes 4 burst, 2 per squad member. If we factor in cost difference... its 4 bursts to kill vs 8 bursts to kill. Yikes. Relooking at my Riffle DPS math is showing that Hammer Heads do 750 DPS but Riffles do 108 gun damage every .55 seconds. So lets just round them off to 200 DPS per Sqaud. If this is the true than 4 Riffle Squads should be spitting more led than 1 hammer head. I will do an in game test to see.
1st game very bad bcs u could easy kill him destroying his ref and other building by firehawks but u didnt. More trash was when u use firehawks for kill infantries, lol
![[C&C3: Kane's Wrath] FPVoD#183 - More ZOCOM and GDI Action!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qATwaw4L7Rc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[C&C3: Kane's Wrath] FPVoD#183 - More ZOCOM and GDI Action!](/img/tr.png)
Nice and intense) Pleasure to watch. Also, man, that synthwave background music is just superb. Really sets the right mood. Have a nice one)
Glad you liked it
Seeing you THIS passionate about learning and playing a faction really makes me quite excited. I would love to see just HOW impressive a dedicated Leaf can be, so don't let up man!
Maybe one day I'll do well again, who knows.
I don't want to play the same way as everybody else, with easy to execute, low skill ceiling strategies.
I want to win with something new and innovative, then its more satisfying when I do win eventually.
@@masterleafcnc I'm curious to see what you can do with R17, if you decide to take a break from ZOCOM. Feels like they're the worst rated faction, would be fun to see if you can work out any new meta with them.
Random strategy: you can order infantry into teammates hammerheads. Doing this with Blackhand is quite the combination.
This may not work if depending if hammerhead is not idle.
🔥🔥🔥
Would be even better with purifying flame!
Of course@@masterleafcnc
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🐉🐉🐲
@@Kane_NOD I will purchase👛💸 all of your Blackhand and Purifiers.
Perhaps you could arrange that
🔥🔥🐉🐲🐉🔥🔥
@@QueenDaenerysTargaryen I guess you can have some of them.
glad to see you playing the game still. being competitive can be a big burn out so understand not doing that anymore. hope to still see your fun casual games though. by far my fave player to watch in action
These days I just play what I find fun, and I know I wont get the most broad audience by doing that - but I just want to do what I like and grind one faction for a while
During the game with all the hammerheads I was laughing a bit when i remembered a few games where you criticized your opponent for not getting tungsten ;)
I learnt my lesson after that game, lol
I think slingshots are almost useless without the tungsten upgrade.
Leaf, what If, u use a GDI Commando sneaking him into the enemy's base by faking a GDI tier 1 army attack (keeping him inside an APC which you pay extra attention to).However at the start you ''show'' the other player you go Firehawks so he focuses on AA.The tier 1 army could be the units u used at the start of the match and can spare.Some thoughts on this? Now the way u send the Commando into the other player's base could be different, you know these stuff better than me.
Great games..wow!
How does zocom beat black hand ??
also i agree with the posting loses thing. if it's the boring same old same old why bother. mostly here to be entertained right
Leaf might be the only player that uses excessive hotkeys for legit everything also his cash keeps floding in the mid game proving his excellent micro with specific units,
I sort of got into the habit of using hotkeys for support powers after the no Hud challenge
Hi masterleaf! Just a question why we dont see you at the tournament ?
I have been modding a lot, so I haven't really participated in any tournament, be it hosted by bikerush, panda etc
My focus these days is not to be a competitive player, I'm finished with that actually.
@@masterleafcnc hope to see you winning with zocom soon ❤
I think in that zocom mirror game if we are being critical there were 2 main mistakes on your part. 1. A bit of a prioritization error with the harvesters in favor of microing zorca... which is understandable...
2. I can't help but feel there were moments mass infantry would have been better to APC, more Zorca, or whatever the hell else you were trying to find late game. I feel like you need at least a certain number of defensive forces in play before you can afford the air toys, and if that defensive force has been wiped out priority dictates blah blah blah. The rax's are good for this because you need only 1/2 X in defense forces before spending on air... and you can just "oh shit!" out the other half if needed... assuming you were on top of your harvesting.
3.Your late game efficiency was horrible that game. Trying to milk the Zorca was fine but the harvester issue parried with a refusal to have 3 raxs just in case shit gets real punished you over and over again it seems.
All in all seems like a very "live and learn" lesson. I don't think you were expecting him to be so agro with small hit squads of Inf / APC... but such is where the power of Zocom really lies.
In my mind I feel like the basic Rax in numbers, like 3-4 of them paired with an on point eco is by far the best defense for Zocom if you want to go air. You don't NEED or WANT to spend thousands of Tib on Infantry over zorca and the toys... but you can in seconds if need be and those "toys" should give you plenty of heads up warning.
So against that huge attack you barely held, if you had 4 raxs pumping riffles it should have been laughably ineffective. But instead we building zorca, commando, marvs, zone raiders with an economy that hasn't been micro attended for ages.
Was funny for because I saw you raxing out zone raiders in mass so I though you would make the easy call and just say "mass riffles time" since they pair perfectly with all those raiders already. Pretend your Black hand sometimes with zocom sometimes and know when that time is. My thoughts anyways.
But if we just experimenting and seeing... that's fine. But shatts an't gunna stop that, APC an't gunna stop that (cost effectively at least), Zone raiders or even a zone marv an't gunna stop that (god help you if he had imp nades), Riffles are good and riffles pared with AOE is good.
Here do me a favor sometime... an experimental one because I want to make this statement as fact about zocom infantry but needs testing.
Zocom inf spam vs Black Hand Spam where Zocom in heavy on the riffles with some shatters or zone raiders mixed in... who wins? I am pretty sure if you test it, Zocom have the best infantry in the game if not straight up, 100% for sure when combined with other units.
Do a 10K Zocom inf army vs a 10k Black Hand Inf army. Make them realistic so rockets, shatters, the like, heavy on the riffles / cabals... its a shockingly close fight that is slightly Zocom favored in my experience.
Point is you can float tib for the toys... but have ability to turn tib into army in seconds should not be underestimated.
Fastlegs tib troopers and enlightened would like to know your location
@@chavzone Nah they get tore up in my experience. Spreading the infantry is priority, but you are forgetting that those damn chem suits reduce the damage they take from tib based weapons. Its actually gross, I thought they would melt too. I LOVE MoK... but damned if the riffles don't just run over tib troopers, no shatter support needed.
There is also a targeting delay issue on the tib troops, makes them kill 1-2 riffles before getting toasted.
The marked on the other hand, no idea. They are some long ranged DPS, Beefy boys. But my moneys on the riffles tib for tib.
I agree with what you say, but sometimes it comes down to the map. Like say if you are playing tournament tower - and it descends into the black hand player having artillery, you're kinda screwed as zocom. I think the more open maps where multi mcv and artillery spam arent as potent zocom has all the chances in the world to win.
Also I think rocket squads are better for meatshielding as they have more squad health compared to the riffle - plus act as anti air.
But i will add in a bunch of riffles next time with my shatterer etc push and see what happens, the foxholes would probably be a good thing.
The toys imo are what win the game, or the ion cannon. It's ok sometimes to float cash to spend it later on, on more cost effective units such as the firehawks which are a long term value
@@masterleafcnc Agree 100% Map is an issue. Might have to be VERY realistic with Zocoms limitations on certain maps vs certain factions and go Ion Cannon. Its not fun but if it was a tournament it would be the right call in most cases.
Are we sure the rockets have more health? Math on units is goofy... X health with Y resists to Z damage types. Its also health per squad member, and the riffles are cheaper (300 vs 400 if memory servers) and then there is DPS. The riffles do constant, often ineffective, damage, where the rockets and Shatters fire slow as hell and are prone to over kill / missing.
Since there were to many factors I just decided to test it out and I found that I was shocked at how effective it was. Need AP ammo and Chem Suits or it is laughable.
The only other Advice I would have is that you MUST prioritize their spread over all things... watch your spacing.
If you want some math behind it, go see how many AP ammo riffles sqauds = the Gun Damage DPS of a AP Hammer Head. I have never done this but I can't imagine its many. Sec let me go investigate curious now.
@@masterleafcnc Yeah your are right, on paper what I am saying makes no sense. Riffles are 300$, 450 HP, 50% Gun damage taken, and do 108 DPS with AP ammo.
It would take 7 squads of them to = the DPS of 1 AP Hammer Head gunship. Which sounds suck since that 2,100$ not 1500... but HP wise... A bit of a bargain for that kind of damage on the ground.
They are dead even with Missles Squads in tankyness if you want to think of it that way.
4 Riffles = 1800 HP at 1200 Tib Cost
3 Missiles = 1800 HP at 1200 Tib Cost
Let me see how they match up HP and Damage to an APC...
damage to 288 (Gun) per burst, with a 75% scalar versus infantry. (whatever that means) Time between bursts: .25 seconds, each burst lasts .4 seconds.
OHHH See now THIS is interesting. I will have to go do some tests but what I think its saying is that APC's go pew pew pew every .65s bust are inclined to overkill squads like riffles requiring 6 bursts to wipe the squad where as vs missile squad it takes 4 burst, 2 per squad member. If we factor in cost difference... its 4 bursts to kill vs 8 bursts to kill. Yikes.
Relooking at my Riffle DPS math is showing that Hammer Heads do 750 DPS but Riffles do 108 gun damage every .55 seconds. So lets just round them off to 200 DPS per Sqaud.
If this is the true than 4 Riffle Squads should be spitting more led than 1 hammer head. I will do an in game test to see.
Teching up to AP Ammo should be the bare minimum...GDI NEEDS AP AMMO
1st game very bad bcs u could easy kill him destroying his ref and other building by firehawks but u didnt. More trash was when u use firehawks for kill infantries, lol