Mark listed almost every movie that was a favorite of mine growing up. I can relate to some parts of his journey and love that he's so open about sharing that. While I'm no expert on existentialism, I would think grim-dark being existential rather than nihilist allows the genre more flexibility and nuance than meaninglessness being the sole focus. I have heard that nihilism is sometimes a phase existentialists experience before finding a positive perspective through agency, so that journey might be developed through a grim-dark narrative. Such a treat watching you two share your excitement for Mark Lawrence. This is an author I really want to get to eventually! Great discussion!
That's a wonderful insight, Johanna! Exploring grimdark as a journey that enables someone to find agency as a progression from nihilism to existentialism -- beautiful! If you do read Lawrence's books, I can't wait to hear what further insights you come up with!
When thinking of my favorite grim-dark authors (and I'd personally include Erikson), I think I'd be missing the point to think that they're ultimately just writing about nihilism. I think that one of the most misunderstood aspects of the genre (including from its own readers), is that truly great grim-dark stories are written by authors with a strong empathetic understanding of people.
@@IbbyMelbourne I completely agree! Grimdark authors are exploring the human condition as much as other authors, and you don’t bother exploring what you don’t care about. In fact, there’s an honesty to grimdark that makes it compelling.
My two favourite Booktubers together talking about one of the series that really grabbed me as an adult fantasy reader. Thanks guys what a great chat! That moustache is starting to take on a life of it's own! I'm getting a Deadwood vibe. I loved Gorgoth and his relationship with Jorg. That crossover cameo was fantastic! As much as I love Prince of Thorns I understand why people find it difficult. It's a shame because the next 5 books after that have such a more widespread appeal. We just have to keep banging the drum. Looking forward to the HBO series in 20 years
I was experiencing some moustache envy during the discussion myself! I enjoy the connections that Lawrence made between the two trilogies, and they become more and more meaningful as the books in Red Queen's War progress. Let's hope HBO makes a smart choice sooner rather than later!
My two favorite booktube channels collaborating. Really looking forward to this as I love Mark Lawrence....I really enjoy how you bring people in to have deeper discussions on books you are reading. Thank you for always giving me stuff to watch while I drink my coffee in the morning
My pleasure! My favorite thing to do on BookTube is to have these discussions because I always learn so much from them. Plus, Mark is a fun person to talk to - his enthusiasm for books is contagious! Thanks so much for watching!
This is easily my favorite booktube video ever, you guys did these books justice! Amazing stuff and cant wait to hear yalls thoughts on The Impossible Times, it is SOOO Different from his fantssy works and its wonderful
I really enjoyed Book of the Ancestor, I don't think it is nearly as dark as Prince of Thorns is going to be, though it does have its moments. I love his writing style and finally have the Broken Empire trilogy on my shelf and will be getting to it very soon. Red Queens War will hopefully grace my shelves soonish as well. I'm very excited to read them and come back and finish this video w/spoilers. Thank you for a fun spoiler free beginning Mark and Philip!
Enjoyed the discussion - thanks to you both ! I have to admit, Mark Lawrence is one of my favourite modern fantasy writers - I think he's underrated. You really need to read his Book of the Ancestor trilogy, Philip - it's his best work thus far without a shadow of doubt.
I’ll definitely be reading Book of the Ancestor. In fact, I doubt I’ll be able to stay away for too long, and I’ll start this summer. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy looking forward on hearing your thoughts. I'm currently about three quarters into The Shadow of the Torturer and it has been certainly an experience. Wolfe has really humbled me on my knowledge of language.
Man, you should definitely do a talk with Slowly Red on Bakker when you eventually read him, it will be a blast. I can't watch this, since I haven't read Lawrence yet, but I will come back once I do in later 2021.
Interesting discussion....The world-building aspects to these books sound interesting to me. Do people become “holograms”? This sounds pretty cutting-edge to me.
He is and will always be among my favorites, and the best part is that his best, I think, is yet to come. The Book That Wouldn't Burn is outstanding and promises something very special in The Library Trilogy.
Jorg being the Prince in Thorns metaphorically is something tha tnever came to me ubtil now, wow, that shits beautiful. Such a beautiful metaphor damn.
You never know what will emerge during a discussion, which is why they're so much fun and always add understanding and appreciation of a book or series for me. Thanks, as always, for watching!
Great discussion guys! I'm still hoping that Lawrence will write another trilogy in this world, with maybe one of the female side characters as the main pov (but indeed not the red queen herself)...also apparently i kinda like scoundrel- characters...
Finished Broken Empire last night, what an ending. It and Red Queen's War are some of my favourite trilogies of all-time. I know some people can't stomach Jorg, which is fair, but I've always liked being in the perspective of an antihero, granted Jorg would be the villain in any other story. Of the two I do prefer Red Queen's War slightly more, largely because of Jalan and Snorri's dynamic.
Snorri and Jalan’s dynamic gives Red Queen’s War a little more light and hope than is present in Broken Empire. Both trilogies are excellent, though, and I’m definitely with you in rating them that highly. Congratulations on finishing!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I do somewhat regret now that I didn't read them in publication order and experience the story as originally intended but hey, that's what re-reads are for. I'd like to see Lawrence return for another trilogy though, maybe see how the new Emperor rules decades down the road with Makin and Rike at his side or a brand new cast. I still have to read the Road Brothers collection but I don't own that yet. Safe to say i will be following Lawrence's work more closely now.
@@thatsci-firogue Lawrence is already a top ten author for me, and I still haven’t read most of his books. I’ll be rectifying that within a year, I hope!
Perhaps before recommending these series you should first ask if they like Thomas Covenant as they are a little similar with having despicable main characters. Have read the first two Sister books and am wracking my brain for the crossover character and drawing a blank. It is odd when the maps are almost spoilers. The ones here jumped right out to me and I might have picked up on what the Wheel was fairly early on. Flashbacks are tricky to use and they seem to be Lawrence's schtick. And fully agreed that if written as plot is the same as story (thanks AP) the books wouldn't have been nearly as entertaining.
That’s an excellent idea in regard to the similarity with Thomas Covenant! I think I know who the crossover character must be, but I have to read Red Sister to confirm. And yes, Lawrence is the flashback king in my book. Thanks, as always, for watching and commenting, Eric!
This was a fun watch. Thanks guys!
It was a lot of fun to chat with Mark (Slowly Red) about Broken Empire and Red Queen’s War. Thanks for writing awesome books!
Tons of fun as always 👍
Thank you for having me on 🙏
The honor is mine, brother!
Mark listed almost every movie that was a favorite of mine growing up. I can relate to some parts of his journey and love that he's so open about sharing that.
While I'm no expert on existentialism, I would think grim-dark being existential rather than nihilist allows the genre more flexibility and nuance than meaninglessness being the sole focus. I have heard that nihilism is sometimes a phase existentialists experience before finding a positive perspective through agency, so that journey might be developed through a grim-dark narrative.
Such a treat watching you two share your excitement for Mark Lawrence. This is an author I really want to get to eventually! Great discussion!
That's a wonderful insight, Johanna! Exploring grimdark as a journey that enables someone to find agency as a progression from nihilism to existentialism -- beautiful! If you do read Lawrence's books, I can't wait to hear what further insights you come up with!
When thinking of my favorite grim-dark authors (and I'd personally include Erikson), I think I'd be missing the point to think that they're ultimately just writing about nihilism.
I think that one of the most misunderstood aspects of the genre (including from its own readers), is that truly great grim-dark stories are written by authors with a strong empathetic understanding of people.
@@IbbyMelbourne I completely agree! Grimdark authors are exploring the human condition as much as other authors, and you don’t bother exploring what you don’t care about. In fact, there’s an honesty to grimdark that makes it compelling.
My two favourite Booktubers together talking about one of the series that really grabbed me as an adult fantasy reader. Thanks guys what a great chat!
That moustache is starting to take on a life of it's own! I'm getting a Deadwood vibe.
I loved Gorgoth and his relationship with Jorg.
That crossover cameo was fantastic!
As much as I love Prince of Thorns I understand why people find it difficult. It's a shame because the next 5 books after that have such a more widespread appeal. We just have to keep banging the drum. Looking forward to the HBO series in 20 years
I was experiencing some moustache envy during the discussion myself! I enjoy the connections that Lawrence made between the two trilogies, and they become more and more meaningful as the books in Red Queen's War progress. Let's hope HBO makes a smart choice sooner rather than later!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'll be your huckleberry.
@@EricMcLuen Perfect!
My two favorite booktube channels collaborating. Really looking forward to this as I love Mark Lawrence....I really enjoy how you bring people in to have deeper discussions on books you are reading. Thank you for always giving me stuff to watch while I drink my coffee in the morning
My pleasure! My favorite thing to do on BookTube is to have these discussions because I always learn so much from them. Plus, Mark is a fun person to talk to - his enthusiasm for books is contagious! Thanks so much for watching!
This discussion was awesome. I love Red Queen's War. I have the Grim Oak Press special edition hardcover with illustrations and it's so beautiful.
I envy you the special edition! Thanks for watching our discussion!
This is easily my favorite booktube video ever, you guys did these books justice! Amazing stuff and cant wait to hear yalls thoughts on The Impossible Times, it is SOOO Different from his fantssy works and its wonderful
Thanks so much for the incredible praise and the kindness! I will most certainly be reading everything by Lawrence eventually.
I stuck around until the 30-minute mark for the heavy spoiler section. Great discussion!
Thanks so much for watching!
I really enjoyed Book of the Ancestor, I don't think it is nearly as dark as Prince of Thorns is going to be, though it does have its moments. I love his writing style and finally have the Broken Empire trilogy on my shelf and will be getting to it very soon. Red Queens War will hopefully grace my shelves soonish as well. I'm very excited to read them and come back and finish this video w/spoilers. Thank you for a fun spoiler free beginning Mark and Philip!
It’s our pleasure, and thank you for watching, Stacy! Now, I need get going myself and read Book of the Ancestor, which I’m really looking forward to!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Enjoyed the discussion - thanks to you both ! I have to admit, Mark Lawrence is one of my favourite modern fantasy writers - I think he's underrated. You really need to read his Book of the Ancestor trilogy, Philip - it's his best work thus far without a shadow of doubt.
I’ll definitely be reading Book of the Ancestor. In fact, I doubt I’ll be able to stay away for too long, and I’ll start this summer. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
I'll be sure to tune back for this discussion after I've finished both trilogies
Awesome, and thank you!
Thank you so much for this. The are very few in depth discussion on the works of Mark Lawrence .
Our pleasure, and thank you for watching and commenting!
Currently reading Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, but Mark Lawrence is on the TBR for sure!
I envy you reading Book of the New Sun -- on my list for this year! I hope you'll enjoy Lawrence's books when you try them!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy looking forward on hearing your thoughts. I'm currently about three quarters into The Shadow of the Torturer and it has been certainly an experience. Wolfe has really humbled me on my knowledge of language.
@@itsRepe I have a feeling I’ll feel humbled too!
Man, you should definitely do a talk with Slowly Red on Bakker when you eventually read him, it will be a blast.
I can't watch this, since I haven't read Lawrence yet, but I will come back once I do in later 2021.
Definitely! Mark is the only BookTuber I know with videos on Bakker’s books.
Interesting discussion....The world-building aspects to these books sound interesting to me. Do people become “holograms”? This sounds pretty cutting-edge to me.
I would definite describe Lawrence's books as cutting edge and even brilliant. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Lawrence sits with Erikson and Hobb these days for me.
He is and will always be among my favorites, and the best part is that his best, I think, is yet to come. The Book That Wouldn't Burn is outstanding and promises something very special in The Library Trilogy.
Jorg being the Prince in Thorns metaphorically is something tha tnever came to me ubtil now, wow, that shits beautiful. Such a beautiful metaphor damn.
You never know what will emerge during a discussion, which is why they're so much fun and always add understanding and appreciation of a book or series for me. Thanks, as always, for watching!
Great discussion guys! I'm still hoping that Lawrence will write another trilogy in this world, with maybe one of the female side characters as the main pov (but indeed not the red queen herself)...also apparently i kinda like scoundrel- characters...
I would buy a book with Kara as the main character in a heartbeat! Thanks so much for watching our chat!
Great podcast! I don't think the Night angel trilogy came all at once though :P
Thanks! I happen to be reading another Mark Lawrence book right now - Red Sister. Fantastic stuff!
Finished Broken Empire last night, what an ending. It and Red Queen's War are some of my favourite trilogies of all-time.
I know some people can't stomach Jorg, which is fair, but I've always liked being in the perspective of an antihero, granted Jorg would be the villain in any other story.
Of the two I do prefer Red Queen's War slightly more, largely because of Jalan and Snorri's dynamic.
Snorri and Jalan’s dynamic gives Red Queen’s War a little more light and hope than is present in Broken Empire. Both trilogies are excellent, though, and I’m definitely with you in rating them that highly. Congratulations on finishing!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I do somewhat regret now that I didn't read them in publication order and experience the story as originally intended but hey, that's what re-reads are for.
I'd like to see Lawrence return for another trilogy though, maybe see how the new Emperor rules decades down the road with Makin and Rike at his side or a brand new cast. I still have to read the Road Brothers collection but I don't own that yet. Safe to say i will be following Lawrence's work more closely now.
@@thatsci-firogue Lawrence is already a top ten author for me, and I still haven’t read most of his books. I’ll be rectifying that within a year, I hope!
Would ya'll consider Neil Gaiman to be grim dark?
Not grimdark but often grim and dark, I think. All the best, Charisse!
Perhaps before recommending these series you should first ask if they like Thomas Covenant as they are a little similar with having despicable main characters.
Have read the first two Sister books and am wracking my brain for the crossover character and drawing a blank.
It is odd when the maps are almost spoilers. The ones here jumped right out to me and I might have picked up on what the Wheel was fairly early on.
Flashbacks are tricky to use and they seem to be Lawrence's schtick. And fully agreed that if written as plot is the same as story (thanks AP) the books wouldn't have been nearly as entertaining.
That’s an excellent idea in regard to the similarity with Thomas Covenant! I think I know who the crossover character must be, but I have to read Red Sister to confirm. And yes, Lawrence is the flashback king in my book. Thanks, as always, for watching and commenting, Eric!
Dude I'm just finishing Red Queen's War. But dam I got your friends anger at Queen of the Damned.
Definitely!