Review of Mark Lawrence’s The Wheel of Osheim, book 3 of The Red Queen’s War Trilogy

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  • Опубліковано 2 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 57

  • @TheBookCure
    @TheBookCure 3 роки тому +3

    I haven’t read this series, but I did really enjoy the Book of the Ancestor trilogy. The way you talk about Lawrence’s writing makes me hopeful that I’ll enjoy the rest of his work as well!

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +2

      Since you’re a King reader, Sarah, my money is on you enjoying these books!

    • @TheBookCure
      @TheBookCure 3 роки тому +2

      @@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Fantastic! I’ll add them to the list.

  • @stacymccaskill-lilja2944
    @stacymccaskill-lilja2944 3 роки тому +1

    I have plans to read both Broken Empire and Red Queen's War, but I don't know if I'll get to them this year or not. I have really enjoyed his Book of the Ancestor trilogy and I have a feeling that I will like both of these trilogies as well.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      In the meantime, I’m looking forward to reading Book of the Ancestor! Like you, I have a feeling I’ll enjoy it.

  • @jeremiahlaust304
    @jeremiahlaust304 3 роки тому +2

    I loved Jalen; he is such and interesting and fun protagonist. I definitely agree that the tone is quite different from Broken Empire, largely because he is a smartass where as Jorg is a psychopath.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      That’s a great way to put it!

    • @ves138
      @ves138 3 роки тому

      "A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” Tompkins says.
      A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. They may know that taking your money is wrong, and they might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop their behavior."
      I actually think jorg is NOT a psychopath, but a sociopath. There are numerous glimpses of him having a conscience but he due to many reasons decides it's better to fight it and supress it, and you can also catch glimpses of it when he's talking to you as a reader, he's def an unreliable narrator when it comes to talking about his feelings and his own emotions and empathy.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      @@ves138 And there’s that whole ending to The Broken Empire Trilogy, which offers, I think, a slightly more nuanced view of Jorg.

  • @pepijnvs9297
    @pepijnvs9297 3 роки тому

    I've had this series on my TBR for a while now, maybe I should pick it up this week. Worst thing that could happen is that I finish The Name of the Wind a little later

  • @nanipocket5965
    @nanipocket5965 3 роки тому

    You make me want to pick up the whole trilogy again! I fell in love with Jalan from the moment that rascal hit the ground running on page 1 of book 1, and I am still absolutely fascinated by Lawrence’s work on the unreliable narrator... It was such a fun tale! I think it’s actually one of my favorite stories ever because it’s so unique. I was so-so with The Broken Empire but Red Queen’s War is what made me fall in love with the author ^^

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      Jalan is a delightful character, an I wholeheartedly agree with you about the brilliance of the narrative choices Lawrence made. I’m glad you enjoyed the video!

  • @cabiel
    @cabiel 3 роки тому

    I took a chance and picked these all up on the audible series sale. But I may keep them queued up until I read the Prince of Thorns first.

  • @fantasticphilosophy181
    @fantasticphilosophy181 3 роки тому

    Just finished this yesterday! I really enjoyed this series, had a grin on my face the whole time while reading. Loved Jalan (cheeky bastard) as a character and it was much fun to figure out about the world and compare it with real life. Also, that drinking scene on the roof...!

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      Yes, that scene! I didn’t want to say too much about it in case someone was watching who hadn’t read it, but it’s a wonderful fan moment for sure. It’s hard not to love Jalan!

  • @thatsci-firogue
    @thatsci-firogue 3 роки тому

    Finished it last night, I adore this trilogy especially Jalan and Snorri. Don't know when I'll get to Broken Empire but I look forward to it

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      Jalan and Snorri’s relationship really is at the heart of it. Beautiful stuff! Broken Empire is not so beautiful, but it’s compelling, I think.

  • @Johanna_reads
    @Johanna_reads 3 роки тому

    Great review, Philip! I haven't read any Mark Lawrence books yet, and it sounds like this trilogy was a great extension of the Broken Empire world. Nice to know he added some excellent details to the magic system. I'm interested in reading from this author someday. Thanks!

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      Thanks, Johanna! If you do decide to read Lawrence’s books, which I suspect you’ll enjoy, I will be eager to hear your thoughts!

  • @BookBlather
    @BookBlather 3 роки тому

    Had to stop early again for spoilers, but thanks for the advice. Planning to read Lawrence eventually, but need to be selective about what other significant fantasy series I take on while also doing Malazan 😫

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      For sure! It’s wise to carefully consider your TBR while reading Malazan. Lawrence is a great writer, though!

  • @kyrilson71
    @kyrilson71 3 роки тому +1

    Alright alright! Fine! I'm going to go back and reread Prince of Thorns again. I DNFed this book because I hated Jorg so much. But I read that book a very long time ago, and I don't think I was fully prepared for such a damaged protagonist, perhaps. Having read things like Malazan and other such books, it may be a different experience this time. Book of the Ancestor trilogy is amazing.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      Even if you still have problems with Jorg, I’d say it could be worth a try. Broken Empire is a trilogy that can get you wrestling with a lot of things, some uncomfortable. Among other things, it can get you thinking about why you get behind a character, and what makes a character sympathetic. Jorg is more complex than most people describe him as. As for Red Queen’s War, I suspect you’d have a blast.

  • @jonny123596
    @jonny123596 2 роки тому

    I finally finished this trilogy! one of Snorri's last flashbacks was one of my favorites! great closure!
    im thinking of reading the mistborn trilogy next. hopefully i like it

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  2 роки тому

      I’m glad you enjoyed The Red Queen’s War Trilogy, Jonny! It’s a thought provoking story. Best wishes with Mistborn!

  • @bobstanly9198
    @bobstanly9198 3 роки тому

    Do you plan to read the Road brothers? Its a collection of short stories set in the Broken empire world.

  • @slowlyred2082
    @slowlyred2082 3 роки тому

    Excellent review 🙌
    I totally agree with the tone of this trilogy. It definitely has some grimdark elements but it also feels like normal adult fantasy. Lots of laughs and a true view of unexpected friendships

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      Thanks, my friend! It’s going to be a ton of fun discussing these books with you!

    • @slowlyred2082
      @slowlyred2082 3 роки тому

      @@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes it will 😉

  • @Liamb2179
    @Liamb2179 3 роки тому

    Just found your channel recently, it's awesome! Have you read rage of dragons? I'd love to see your thoughts on it!

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      Thank you! I haven’t read Rage of Dragons yet, but I have it and plan to read it this summer. I’m looking forward to it!

  • @matthewbrown1151
    @matthewbrown1151 3 роки тому

    I have really struggled to get into Prince of Thorns, particularly with his writing style. Does anyone else find it challenging

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      I'm sure that many people agree with you. Most complaints I've heard have to do with Jorg, not the writing style so much, but everyone has their own tastes!

  • @robertboileau9401
    @robertboileau9401 3 роки тому

    I prefer the Red Queen trilogy more than the Broken Empire, although I have not read Emperor of Thorns yet. The world building and characters (IMO) are better in the Red Queen's war. I agree with you that there is a good amount of sci-fi in the Wheel of Osheim. It's a cool twist to put in a mostly fantasy story.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому

      The sci-fi elements surprised me at first, but I admire the way Lawrence brings them in. They definitely add layers to the story.

  • @ves138
    @ves138 3 роки тому

    Disclaimer: for anyone reading this comment this will be SPOILER HEAVY so if you have not read the broken empire or this trilogy DO NOT READ this.
    Lawrence was a research scientist and worked in the field of AI and machine learning, has a phd in both maths and physics and has also worked on top secret classified projects for both UK and US governments. He also has worked on literal rocket science. This is probably why most of his stuff has heavy scifi elements, especially concerning philosophy behind some ideas in physics
    Lawrence manages to blend deep philosophical themes with epic battles and action, unique characters, and humor in a way few authors can. That is one of the reasons I enjoy his books.
    This contains spoilers.
    The Wheel of Osheim and all of The Red Queen’s War is packed with philosophical themes. I will try to unveil some of them here. Bear with me.
    Starting with the object of the title, because everything that is in a title is bound to be important. So, The Wheel.
    So, the actual Wheel is, as it turns out, is a particle accelerator located in Leipzig. This Wheel is what brought magic into the world, when the Builders - the term used for the people living before the Day of a Thousand Suns, i.e. ’us’ - used the Wheel somehow. Shortly after ’turning the Wheel’, they all died in the Day of a Thousand Suns - a nuclear war. But some Builders found a way to stay ’alive’. ”They used the changes they wrought in the world when they turned the Wheel. They escaped into other forms when their flesh betrayed them. Others were copied into the Builders’ machines and exist there now as echoes of men and women long since dead.” These ’echoes’ are some kind of AI, and the other forms some Builders took was the form of gods and spirits, and they became part of human mythology. ”The Builder spirits found themselves ensnared by myth, each tale growing around the spirits, reinforced by them, weaving them into a fabric of belief that both shaped and trapped them until they could scarcely remember a time when they were anything other than what men believed them to be.”
    This is the nature of the magic of the Wheel: Peoples beliefs changes reality. Reality becomes what people believe. What people believe becomes reality.
    So, if everything we believe to be true is only true because we believe it to be, then what is actually true? Hello Philosophy. Hello Relativism. This philosophical idea claims that nobody can ever know what is actually true, that everything is relative, and thus everyone is free to form their own perception of reality. What is true to one person might not be true for another person, etc.
    This relativism is reflected in the Wheel. Because of the Wheel, reality is formed by peoples beliefs. For example, when Jalan and Snorri come to Hell, the shape of Hell is only as it is because that is what they have been told and believe. ”It’s what the Wheel has given us because the stories we tell ourselves have bound about us so tight, we believe them, we want them, and now we have them.” And when they arrive to Osheim, they are able to form reality easily. ”The Wheel grows stronger as you get closer. At first it answers your will. As you get closer it answers your desire. And closer still it dances to your imagination. All your dreams, each shadowed corner of your mind, each possibility you’ve considered . . . it feeds them, makes them flesh, sends them to you.” Our worldview is formed by our beliefs. What we believe to be true shapes the way we see and interact with the world. Our values, the norms in our society, etc.
    Kara also speaks of ’the id’, when she talks about the Wheel. The id is a part of the psychoanalysis theory of Sigmund Freud. The id is our instincts in our subconscious, our animalistic impulses and desires, particularly our sexual and aggressive drives. The id acts according to the "pleasure principle"-the psychic force that motivates the tendency to seek immediate gratification of any impulse defined as seeking to avoid pain or unpleasure. Jalan is bad at controlling his id. He often acts out his desires and instincts. He seeks pleasure through sex and alcohol, etc, and avoids inconvenience. Thus when he arrives to the Wheel of Osheim, the ’monsters of his mind’ are brought to life. He is, as he himself states, the worst person to send to the Wheel. “Your dreams are what will tear you apart. Every man is the victim of his own imagination: we all carry the seeds of our own destruction.”
    Lady Blue tries to tempt Jalan into helping her destroy the world instead of stopping the Wheel, which would make Jalan a ’god’ in the new world to come. ”The freedom to do as you want, unconstrained by troublesome morality, unbound by that nagging voice of conscience which others have imposed upon you, infected you with.” But in the end Jalan does not do it. He is tempted to do it, even in the end. And what is it that keeps him from falling to temptation? It surely isn’t his impeccable sense of duty. No, it’s friendship. This is what happens as he is about to turn the Key: ”I looked back past the false god, a thing made real by the dreams of men, and saw, standing at the blood-smeared window to the other room, the hulking figure of my friend, only his eyes clearly visible where a hand had wiped the glass clean. I turned the key.” He looks first at Loki, the embodiment of lies, the symbol of temptation, and then at Snorri, his friend. And he chooses Snorri. He chooses friendship So, apropos of philosophy, this book may advocate relativism in terms of reality and truth, but not in terms of morality. And that is a big and important difference.
    Furthermore, there is Loki, the Norse god of tricks. Loki emphasizes and embodies the idea of relativism. He is a human being that has been made a god because people believe in him. So he has the power of a god, even though he is actually only a human being, formed by others expectations. So is Loki a god? Yes, because he has the power of a god. No, because he is only an idea. It is a matter of perspective, just as relativism claims that everything is a matter of perspective.

    • @ves138
      @ves138 3 роки тому

      This is the philosophy of Loki: ”What if at the core, if you dug deep enough, uncovered every truth . . . what if at the heart of it all . . . there was a lie, like a worm at the centre of the apple, coiled like Oroborus, just as the secret of men hides coiled at the centre of each piece of you, no matter how fine you slice?” This line is spoken twice, once in the beginning of The Liar’s Key, and once in the end of The Wheel of Osheim. If a line such as this one is written twice, it means it is important. And it is. In fact, it is the single best line I have read in any book for a very long time. What is the core? What is the heart of it all? The centre of the apple, could be a reference to Original Sin, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit (often described as an apple) of the Tree of Knowledge, and thus sin entered the world and they were cast out of Eden. The Worm in the centre of the apple could be a reference to the serpent in the same story, which tempted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. The serpent is the symbol of satan, the devil, and it’s worth noting that Loki is more or less the equvilent of satan in Norse mythology. A Worm coiled like Oroborus … Oroborus is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent eating it’s own tail. It is often taken to symbolize introspection, the eternal return or cyclicality, especially in the sense of something constantly re-creating itself. It also represents the infinite cycle of nature's endless creation and destruction, life and death and despair. The symbol of Oroborus speaks to the entire trilogy. Introspection is reflected especially in The Prince of Fools in how Aslaug and Baraqel affects Jalan and Snorri, and also in how the Wheel reveals ”the dark places in your mind where you make war on yourself.” Cyclicality is reflected in the way Jalan repeatedly falls back to his desires - which also touches upon the idea of Original Sin and that sin is inevitable. Life and Death is reflected in the necromancers, the army of the dead and so on, and in Jalan and Snorris trip to Hell. Creation and destruction is reflected in the Day of a Thousand Suns, and how a new world was created, which is about to end, which will then bring a new world, etc. The symbol of Oroborus, of a serpent biting its tail, also exists in Norse Mythology, where it is the child of Loki, which gives it even more importance. And Oroborus is a ring, a circle … a Wheel.
      Reality is shaped by belief. The more people believe it, the more real it becomes. The Wheel of Osheim must also be affected by this magic, by its own magic. People believe the Wheel turn their dreams to reality, so the Wheel does it. Loki’s Key didn’t have any power at first, it was just a key. But the stories of the key made the key gain power, until the myth became the truth. What if it’s the same thing with the Wheel? What if the wheel doesn’t have any magic in itself, but only gets it’s magic from people beliefs? So the origin of magic, is actually … a lie. At the core, circular like a wheel, is a lie. The Wheel, which is a particle accelerator, is named IKOL, which is Loki spelled backwards, which would emphasize that the Wheel is simply just a lie, a joke, a trick. But then another question arise: where does the magic come from, if not from the Wheel? And that I don’t know. And I think that’s the point. Because, what if at the core, if you dug deep enough, uncovered every truth . . . what if at the heart of it all . . . there was a lie? “Lies are our foundation-we each start with a lie and build a life upon it. Lies are more durable than the truth, more mutable, able to change to meet requirements.” That is the philosophy of Loki, that nothing is true. It is relativism, but this relativism is extended to include morality as well. “Hate, courage, fear . . . all lies. Don’t look for reasons. Do what you feel. Not what you feel to be right-just what you feel.” Loki tells Jalan to not care about morality, of conscience, to simply follow his desires. Because for Loki, morality is a lie.
      But here comes the most important part of the book: the end. As Jalan is tempted by Loki, as he is about to turn the key, he looks from Loki to Snorri, his friend. And he turns the key. To save his friend. And that is the most important part of the book. The book embraces relativism in terms of what is real and what is true, but not in terms of morality and empathyz. These are the very last sentences: Neither of us know the definition of the word-but we both know what it means. And in the end neither the lies nor the truth matter. Just what we feel. I’m a liar and a cheat and a coward, but I will never, ever, rarely let a friend down.” So maybe it doesn’t matter if we know everything. Is there life after death? How was the world created? Maybe we need to accept that we cannot know everything. We don’t need a definition of everything, but we can still know what it means. We don’t need to know the molecules of coke, we can still enjoy it.
      It may seem like there is no character development in Jalan, since he starts out in basically the same situation as in the beginning, being a spoiled prince in Vermillion living indulging in his desires. But there is a development, and it is manifested in the last line of The Wheel of Osheim: I’m a liar and a cheat and a coward, but I will never, ever, rarely let a friend down. The Prince of Fools begins with this exact line, but with an added ”Unless of course not letting them down requires honesty, fair play, or bravery” In the end, Jalan stands up for Snorri. He embraces friendship. He also cries for his brothers as they die during battle earlier in the book. He truly embraces empathy and his emotions for his friends. In the end, he is still a spoiled prince, and he lives for his indulgences. But he also lives for his friends.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      @@ves138 This is just a beautiful response to The Red Queen’s War Trilogy! I enthusiastically agree with the entire statement. While there is a great deal of relativism in the story, in particular in the realm of magic, the most important and poignant part of the story is the friendship. I find an admirable honesty in admitting there are so many things we don’t know. At the same time, the idea that we are here to learn empathy and to embrace those in whose company we find ourselves during the journey is about the only thing that makes sense. I find such a notion both powerful and beautiful. My hat is off to Lawrence for weaving a tale that so effectively gets all this across while entertaining me. Also, my thanks to you again for this wonderful assessment, which has added to my admiration and love for this story and it’s characters!

    • @ves138
      @ves138 3 роки тому

      @@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy “I’m a liar and a cheat and a coward, but I will never, ever, rarely let a friend down.”
      I agree with everything you've said, and your reviews of these books have been very insightful for me, you noticed some things that I did not on my first read. Keep up the good work friend you're so far my absolute favorite booktuber!

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      @@ves138 It’s been a huge pleasure exchanging thoughts on these books with you. Thanks! I’m looking forward to Book of the Ancestor later this year.

    • @ves138
      @ves138 3 роки тому

      @@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I hope I will be able to get to that one this year, catching up with Stormlight is my priority but i am eager to see how you will feel about them! Btw if you want a cool sneak peak into the Road Brothers, Select Mode is a short story from it that is so good imo. It's only 10 or so pages, but has some of the coolest moments!

  • @ACriticalDragon
    @ACriticalDragon 3 роки тому +1

    Very interesting review. I was always impressed and appreciative on Lawrence's skills as an author, but I disliked the Broken Empire trilogy. Perhaps dislike is too strong a statement. I didn't enjoy it, it wasn't my flavour of fantasy. But that is a personal preference and not a judgement on Lawrence's ability.
    I might give this trilogy a read though as it seems the aspects that I didn't enjoy in Broken Empire have been turned down, so I may enjoy this more.
    Thanks for posting this, Philip.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +2

      My pleasure, A.P.! I would be interested to hear your assessment of the trilogy as a whole, and especially of Jalan. Also, I think you’d have some fun with the ways in which Lawrence weaves in flashbacks. I would love to see you put on your narratological hat for it. There’s definitely some meat here for you to sink your teeth in.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon 3 роки тому

      Analepsis = flashback.
      Prolepsis = flash forward.
      The person that taught me also said that the easiest way to remember the distinction is that Analepsis starts with anal... And that is behind you.
      Studying narratology had its moments.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      @@ACriticalDragon 🤣🤣🤣 I can see why it would be good to have such terminology behind one’s analysis!

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon 3 роки тому

      @@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy analysis often begins with an anal approach. 😁😁😁😁😁

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      @@ACriticalDragon Which is why literary analysis can be such an enemigmatic process.

  • @robpaul7544
    @robpaul7544 3 роки тому

    It's on my tbr already, stop picking on me! 😭
    😉 sounds interesting, hope I get to it soon(ish)

  • @gregorylaperche5574
    @gregorylaperche5574 3 роки тому

    I've been saying I'll get to these for a while, but I have not. Broken Empire Was so fun and dark.

    • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
      @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy  3 роки тому +1

      In that case, I’m betting you’ll love Red Queen’s War!

    • @ves138
      @ves138 3 роки тому +1

      I watched your TBE reviews and you will LOVE this one. For sure.