Postmillennialism: With Pastor Doug Wilson
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2020
- Postmillennialism: With Pastor Doug Wilson
Doug Wilson is a Postmillennialist, which means he believes that the "Millennium" of Revelation 20 is already occurring and that gradually the world will improve and become Christianized as disciples of Jesus live out the Great Commission until Jesus returns. In this episode, Pastor Doug helps us understand his view while answering hard questions about the timing and nature of the Millennium and the End Times. Be sure to check out the study guide below!
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Josh Lewis' Church Kings Fellowship Church
kingsfellowshipchurch.com/
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Michael Miller's Church Reclamation Church
reclamationdenver.com/
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Even When Spotify Link
open.spotify.com/track/0V2UX6...
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Study Guide
theremnantradio.com/wp-conten...
Love Pastor Doug. Thanks for having him on! Bless you guys
Didn't appreciate that Calvinist comment. Would be very cautious about promoting that.
@@SetApartForChrist32 Serious though.
@@SetApartForChrist32 How so?
@@SetApartForChrist32 How about the part that argues human beings don't have free will but are controlled by God and rendering God the author of evil who desired evil and damning people for no discernable reason and removing human responsibility for evil? I'm sure you must have encountered the arguments from the likes of Mike Winger, Leighton Flowers, or Adam Harwood among others.
@@SetApartForChrist32 And here we go with the calvinistic talking points trying to obscure the problem... According to your calvinistic system, God caused us to become sinners and to remain sinners until he choose to regenerate people, and although they cannot possibly repent or refuse to sin, yet he expects and calls them to repent and refuse to sin? You are demonstrating the very problem I described and it highlights what a blasphemous and wretched theology you've adopted and how it is utterly irrational and incoherent. No, people are not unable to repent or refuse to sin, but they have the free will to do so, and they can only be held responsible because of that fact. You need to step back and properly re-evaluate your position!
I’ve been blessed by pastor Doug’s ministry for years! I’m a Lutheran but he’s definitely a gift to the whole Church! Thanks for having him on the show!
What’s crazy is that there are so many unaware of this position. It was one of the most prevalent views throughout church history, not to mention prevalent in the Presbyterian tradition.
Replacement theology was prevalent with this denominations too.
Prevalent because it was started by Augustine circa 400. The teaching of the rapture was started by Jesus in John 14 and was believed upon and taught by the apostles in their letters, calling in it the blessed hope. Augustine rejected it saying that we were already living in Christ's kingdom and started a new theology - replacement theology - where the Church replaced Israel. Luther and Calvin bought into it, and now this is the lens with which end times are viewed incorrectly.
@@havasmama05 replacement theology is a myth. It is engraftment theology. There is only one vine, made up of Abraham’s children, both Jew and gentile.
@@jakesarms8996 That's just a slur people like you use to imply true believers are "anti semitic."
@@Th3BigBoy do you believe Israel will come to faith in Christ and be saved as God’s elect nation?
Absolutely love this, was immensely surprised, and looking forward to reading the Bible w/ eyes to see the possibilities of this view. I had lost an optimistic view of the future as I read the Scriptures, would love to have that hope reborn.
Jesus is Lord, be optimistic
@@AdamSmith-ec5nv b
Same bro I know a lot of believers who are just so scared about the future I wish it weren’t so.
I've only understood this view for 3 days, but some verse I never quite understood are making so much more sense to me! Blowing my mind right now!
I’ve always been taught the dispensationalist view but I am really rethinking that position. I’ve been listening to Jeff Durbin and I am searching the scriptures and finding more pastors such as Doug Wilson to learn more.
Same!
@Mike Bromeo Is it possible that there was a first resurrection Rev 20:5? How do we know that there wasn't?
@Mike Bromeo
"You unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you?" We are talking about the generation that crucified the Son of God. And they grew colder and colder until 70 AD when Christ judged them. This is the generation that Paul is talking about in Romans 9. God hardened them in order to bring about the salvation of the world through the gospel events of Jesus's life, death and resurrection.
The larger Roman world was also incredibly evil. If you saw a woman on the side of the road in Ancient Rome you were permitted to rape her and were, in fact, considered weak if you did not.
The mustard plant is still growing. We very easily look at the sin in our time and think it is worse--no, we just hear more about it more due to media. It is no longer hidden. People's hearts are being exposed to one another, via media. This too is a mercy of God. Tim Keller reviews a wonderful book (from a non-Christian author) here: www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/dominion-christian-revolution-tom-holland/ Check out the review and check out the book. The kingdom advances. 2000 AD is just the beginning. There is a long way to go. But God is not confused. He is continuing to work all things together for our good.
@Mike Bromeo
I agree, this generation (the one currently happening :) is very much a “selfie selfish shallow” one but it pales into comparison with what was happening in those terrible times in the first century....
Can you imagine being a new believer during the rule of the depraved Nero? Always terrified of being fed to the lions or impaled alive upon a crucifix and set fire to for the amusement of Nero in his gardens? Nero was a depraved beast and ruled the world at 17.... He kicked his pregnant wife to death; killed his mother, aunts and uncles and loved to watch Christians being tortured whilst engaging in vile sex acts with boys and girls....
Jerusalem was also at war with itself; huge troubles with the zealots who pretty much live up to 2Tim 3 in those terrible dark years leading up to the obliteration of Jerusalem and her temple and the last days of the Judaic system, those who devoured widows’ houses and turned God’s temple into a den of iniquity.
And killed the Lord Jesus..
We owe those brave first century Christians a huge debt of gratitude for the blessings we have in our lives, however dark the world may look today.
Amen and God bless you in your quest for truth ❤️🙏🏽
Amen to sound theology.
Shout out to Doug for the excellent breakdown of post mil and general world view perspective!
I’m somewhere between Am and Post. I like to just call it “Realized Millennialism.” Christ accomplished so much more than what most think.
You'll find this trend throughout church
history where when things go bad the church favors a premill view, when things go well the church favors a postmill view. They kept guessing dates based on when they thought things would be at their worst or best. Finally many Christians settled on a simple admonition, "if they say Jesus is coming, keep planting." The idea is that if we are found as faithful workers when Christ returns, we have not lost our reward, but if we stop working in anticipation of Christ's return, we are found unfaithful. So no matter where you settle eschatologically, keep making disciples, loving God and your neighbors so that whenever He returns, tomorrow or 2000 years from now, you may be found faithful.
Love to see and hear a theologian who continues in the pastorate rather than dwelling in the Academy.
Listen to Phillip Kayser on Revelation. A true pastor!
I watch this several times and always love it. I learn each time. Won't it be wonderful to realize that it really is going to be this way?
According to scripture it will be.
““See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.”
Isaiah 65:17-25
@@Controle9165 so, if the former things won't be remembered, how will we remember who we were and what we were saved from?
@@MikeJewell the former things is the sacrifice offerings and all that stuff from the old covenant the former things have passed away that’s what that is referring to. And those things have certainly passed away.
@@Controle9165 just to clarify, if all that stuff (sacrifices etc) have been done away with, which I believe have been, in Christ's sacrifice, why will there be sacrifices in the Millennial reign?
Thanks for sharing this video. I enjoyed it
Thanks brothers , this was a great discussion 👍🏼
Great show!
This was great studying post mill/preterest view for the past weeks so this is great timing for me
God bless
Can’t say I’m convinced of the Post view. How can things be getting better? All I see is darkness and the evidence of more evil influence..although I really enjoy the topic/conversation.
I actually believe Satan has been released.
Y'all are doing an awesome job the podcast is a real favorite and you guys are awesome.
Thank you Nsoha!
Love this! I learned a lot and could really track with the teaching. Thanks so much for the new and encouraging thoughts! God is amazing 👏👏🏽👏🏻
Great video here! Great questions and insight.
These guys ask all the right questions in the right way!
If the devil is bound now I hate to see him loosed.
Man is inherintly barbaric enough...
we don't need a "devil" to blame for the wickedness in the world.
We are bad enough, unless redeemed through Christ.
AMEN!!! Love Pastor Doug too!!! WONDERFUL program!!! Thank you so much !!!
love this guy. I needed to hear more POV's on Postmill...I've always felt that as truth my whole life and never understood the pessimism of popular Christian culture. *I am most def a Postmill Christian* ... thanks for this interview.
Great broadcast.
This was great!
Thanks again Stephen.
Great guest!
I truly want post milienialism to be true and I hope they are right I just love Douglas and even though I'm not a calvinist but he is just a brilliant brilliant man and really really funny.
Great book.
The ultimate optimistic understanding of the future. Simply, the truth.
Exellent outlook, the same view William Carey had for his missionary accomplishments.
Doug Wilson you just blew my mind
10 million Anglicans in Uganda - on fire for Christ - The Anglican minister who came preach to us in Cape Town one evening was astounded - He said "I am used to preaching to at least 3000 people!" (We have a small body)
But christianity is dying in Europe and America. Per cappita there are less christians in the world today than 100 years ago.
"I don't buy it, but wouldn't it be great if it were true?" You got me there, Doug.
It’s not for sale! ✝️ Grace only 🕊
It is Finished.
Those two youngsters just got a bucket full of truth dumped on them by one of the most learned men in Christendom today...especially the preterist related material. Reminded me of when I came to know and embrace these truths.
I am not smart enough to understand this but it wounds great!
This was very informative and hit a lot of questions I’ve had about postmil. I’m not settled on what camp I’m in yet but this made a lot of sense. I started to notice a lot of teachers and pastors I liked happened to be postmil and it intrigued me to want to know more. Great video!
I am sorry that Doug Wilson has fallen for the deceptive trap I almost fell into many years ago by thinking that Christianity would take over the world and become "Christianized." The Biblical theology on eschatology is the Amill position which is based on Revelation 20. The Kingdom is now but it is spiritual in nature and we are now in the last of the last days when Satan has been loosed. The final apostasy is upon us and true believers should discern the times and not fall prey to the delusions of a better tomorrow on this sin cursed earth. Everything around us points to the soon return of Jesus Christ to judge an apostate church and corrupt world just as it was in the days of Noah so it is NOW! Wake up and read your Bible more carefully.
Ty brothers for this. Suggestion.. time stamps. Blessings.
David Chilton's Days of Vengeance and Greg Bahsen's Bright Hope of Victory are good reads.
Victory in Jesus: The Bright Hope of Postmillennialism..Greg Bahsen.
Big fan of Chilton's book, Paradise Restored also. It's the book that opened my eyes to other options rather than premillinialsm
Anything written by David Chilton is spot on!! Also The Perfect Ending For the World by John Noē. Great works!! I have been diving into the Preterist views & Biblical teachings since 1994 after being challenged by our former pastor to look at the most well worn theologies of the last 6 decades regarding "end times" escatology and explore what the Bible actually says about it all. It changes your paradigm!!
Great episode thank your for having pastor Doug on.
Matthew 24:21 - 34, says the the Great Tribulation would be one that would never be equaled. So, it does not seem that "everything", can repeat itself. Great video. Thank you!
Love Doug
I’m watching in spite of weak faith of the Remnant Radio guys
Love you Pastor Doug thank you for helping our brothers and sisters w sound theology
Excellent. Love Doug Wilson patience and you guys had great questions.
I wish it was getting better instead of worse here in the US.
Every passage made leads me to believe we are in satans little season. It’s not a salvation issue for me, but it makes the world arojnd me make sense
We all must do our part and spread the good news...
No Biggy, but the lights in the background remind me of Ben Shapiro’s Sunday Specials lol
Great discussion gents!
Guys R. C. Sproul father had done a great study on the Millenium with all the tree views and Bible texts in favor of each view. It is the best study I have herd and seen. If you google you may have find this study. He may have also written books on it. Also you can get information from his Church in Sanford Florida that they can email to you. God Bless You all!
Good RC Sproul book is The Last Days According to Jesus
Read it. It is a good read
This Pastoris pretty right on!
The "thousand years" are not exclusive to Rev. 20, for a Day is as a thousand years in His sight; the seventh, and last Day of the great Week, is officially called the Day of the Lord, and this thousand-year Day appears throughout the Bible. Get the order of resurrection: 1) Christ the Firstfruits. 2) those that are His at His coming (the church is first fruits) as the last Day begins, and 3) then comes the end (of the thousand years, or last Day), which is the general harvest.
101 time statements in The New Covenant
This Generation
These are the last days
This is The Last Hour
Some here will Not die before I return!
If you think the ages in Genesis are long then presumably there are apostles still alive today waiting for their Master to return as HE said?
See him come. John saw him come.
I love Doug Wilson. So glad you guys had him on and exposed your followers to the optimism of postmill. I would really suggest to go back and listen to his points several times. I mean no offense. It's just very difficult to unlearn all of the doctrination that we have all experienced living in our modern culture. God bless you and all my brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen and amen... As Doug would say.
With regard to the rebellion at the end of R20, I (and many other postmil believers) see the key as to understand that the rebellion coincides with the general resurrection. It's basically the unjust dead. Literally Gog and Magog (ch19).
Nope
Nice globe strategically placed in the background
Not biblical. 😂
Why couldn't I find the globe? 😅
Speaking about Christianity and politics, it would be interesting if y'all talked about Christian (Evangelical particularly) Libertarianism
Please get ahold of Shane J Wood at Ozark. You all would love his studies.
Amill believes Christ is coming again after the millennium(which is now, the church age) They are post mill in that sense. Odd that I would have to correct that
But most PostMil folks don’t believe that we are in the millennium yet.
The comment was in regard to his initial definition of the amill position. In my estimation it was inaccurate or at least an insufficient description. Later in the video he described the over lap but there is so much to be added. I’d refer to Kim Riddlebarger or GK Beale materials along with Westminster helps such as G. Vos and M. Kline
Love this. Whenever I here a post mill, amill, or preterist explaining their position, it just strengthens my pre mill , pre trib, dispensational Bible believing mind. But it is fascinating to listen to!!!
Exactly! I can't believe how flat this fell. I thought I would be challenged some, but that didn't happen.
Its how I feel hearing pre-mil honestly. Pre-mil and especially the rature variety is one of the few things I am convinced is not true in eschatology.
I'm right now reading the founding document for Dispensational thinking, and 7 year tribulation idea.
It was written by a guy called Lacunza. He was a Jesuit monk. No one in any church, Catholic or Protestant even considered Dispensations until it was "discovered" by the Jesuits. You do realize their order was created to destroy all protestant churches by all means necessary? You do realize Lacunza wrote it under a Pseudonym to hide his identity? You do realize his book was given to Charismatic pastor Edward Irving by Roman Catholic acquaintances, who then spread it to other pastors, then all over the USA?
Do you realize that your beliefs were fabricated by a secret society sworn to your destruction?
Do you realize a pre-wrath "rapture" was unheard of in Christian thought until 1830?
I used to be one of you until I read the writings of Christians BEFORE 1830. To know nothing of the past, is to be forever a child. Wake up.
Our view of the world is twisted by the reality that bad news sells. We have no idea what God is doing behind the scenes to make sure His "kingdom come(s) on Earth, as it is in heaven." The Christian Church started with a handful of people, and now there are millions of believers across the globe. That fact--and God's promises--should give us reason for optimism.
Hey Doug, just share Rev. 1:1 with them.
So many books in the background.
Just listened to this podcast. A question I had is how essential is a Calvinistic soteriology to the Post-Millennial eschatological position? How much does the predetermination of the elect and the non-elect figure into this view of the end of human history?
It is not a necessary factor at all in my view.
I have been pondering the same thing as I recently left Calvinism but cling to Post-Mil. I think God in His omniscience knows that the world will freely put their faith in Him. The mysteries of God are just so incredible.
@@wolfpacklawncarellc1682 You have to ignore a lot of verses to hold that opinion. Romans 3:10-11 among others, inform us about who seeks Christ. Election, interestingly enough, is all throughout Genesis
50:57 "What do you want, egg in your beer?" 🤣🤣 what in the world why do I find this so funny
I can't stop laughing I must be tired🤣
I believe Jesus will return before the millennium takes place.
Although I don't agree with White and Wilson's view, I do think that there needs to correction of some fatalistic perspectives with Revelation. The two witnesses show great authority during the last 7 years and are a type of Aaron and Moses. There is a similar aspects to plagues to Passover period in Exodus to aspects of Revelations.
One of the problem with amillennialism and postmillennialism is their lax reading of the Scripture. In this video they confessed that tend to read some passages as an allegory. The passage from Revelation 20:1 to 10 is a very straight forward narrative that described what happened at the end of the 1000 year Millennium. It says clearly that at the beginning of the 1000 year period, an angle came down and bound Satan and locked him away. Pastor Doug believed this is points to the victory of Jesus on the cross. But clearly Rev 20:1 is talking about something else. Even if that was the time when Satan was bound, it has clearly been more than 1000 years already. It is almost 2000 years now. But in the video they seemed to ignore that it says clearly 1000 years, then Satan would be released. So if Satan was bound back in 32 A.D., but it's almost 2000 years now, so how come Satan was not released yet? How come the golden age hasn't come to an end or reach its zenith? There are many contradictions against the simple and literal reading of the Scripture. These are some serious questions that need to be answer by the postmillenialists.
The term “1000” is generally used in the Bible to mean “a lot,” e.g., “the cattle on 1,000 hills” (Psalm 50) or Sampson killing 1,000 with a donkey’s jawbone. In neither case, would you take it completely literally. Maybe Sampson only killed 987 people. But the Bible isn’t “lying,” just like I’m not when I exaggerate and say, “I’m starving.”
Yeah, I feel ya. The thing is, it all seems to be happening in a literal sense. The establishment of Iseral was allegory, until it happened. NOW it all seems to be happening exactly as written. No allegory. But, he believes in Jesus.
I believe he was released and we are in his little season.
Truth. If Satan, was bound, how does someone explain the ongoing sin and death? And what about the Rev 19 wedding-supper of the lamb? It's pretty clear who the bride and groom are, according to scripture
Post-trib. Pre-mill.
All things work together for good...
Jesus didnt come the first time to judge the world. His Second Coming will be that. Not sure I see things the way he does.
He came to judge Jerusalem, not the world. His second coming, he will judge the WHOLE world
I am with you. When has there been any extended period of time where the Christian peace has ruled the world? Also, Christ will judge the world at his second coming. His first coming brought about the opportunity for the world to experience God's salvation.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. The first coming of Jesus was not to judge but to save. Jesus came to seek and save the lost.
The bible also speaks against those that try to say that he has already returned. There wont be anyway to Miss the return, ALL WILL SEE AND TREMBLE!
Yep, Doug never said that He would not return in bodily form to judge the living and dead. He's always been emphatic on the Resurrection.
Some people think that just because Jesus came in judgement on the form of the Roman army, this means that he won't physically come later. This is ridiculous.
Agree...Matthew 24 answers so many of our questions
Post millennials dont claim that Jesus has already come to jusge the world. The argument is that 70 AD was the Judgment of the Lord for Jerusalem, and that Jesus' bodily return is still to come.
Yes. It is a dangerous doctrine. So is Calvinism. I don't have to pray for forgiveness. He picked me already. WHAT? Deception is here.
@@gregpierce9800gain you’re just as deceived. Your prayer doesn’t forgive your sins. Only Christ blood atonement does that.
You are right. Not everyone is postmill but lately I’ve listened to this pastor, and R C Sproul, and Pastor Alley from Australia and I think I’m pretty close to shedding the premillennialism dispensational gobbledygook. Thanks for having him on.
Yes. Ive also read Preston’s and Godawa’s books on Israel and read that Israel is one of the most atheistic nations on the planet, and I’m free of expecting that Israel is in any way as a nation part of Gods plan. The old covenant was done away with and the new kingdom is flourishing.
@Julian Romero From whom did Israel learn to become idolatrous? The Gentile dogs is who. You, me and every other believer that would not have even had the opportunity to be saved if not for Israel's "partial" hardening. There are 3 people groups and no more: the Jew, the Gentile and the believer in Christ Jesus. The Jews were provoked to jealousy to our benefit and God is not finished with them because it is all about Him and His inheritance. There are unfulfilled prophecies that can not be reconciled by the post-millenialist. There is also coming a time where the nations of the world are against her (Israel and the Jewish people). They are easy to dislike and with the onslaught of 2020, we started to see her final days of trial that started long ago as orchestrated by Satan and carried out by the media. It is coming......He is coming....and He is coming very soon! He does not need us to cleanse the world of unbelievers and usher in His kingdom, He is the conquerer. Just my thoughts. God bless.
@@julianromero1326they just made it hard to argue this way because one is put away as an antisemite. But even their flag says New Age and satanic symbol rather than chosen people. 😬
❤
Great convo, very well done.
Elephant in the room, though...what about Israel??
Amill/Postmill Are both interpretations based on preterism, which, is itself a system of interpretation created by necessity to suit supersessionism (aka replacement theology, divorce theology, fulfillment theology), which naturally forces one into allegorizing, spiritualizing, and re-defining the scriptures.
Several issues arise however- and this is by no means extensive, just a glance.
Most importantly one must answer:
- Is God faithful? (Don’t move off this one so fast)
- Does He intend to keep His word?
- Has God cast off His people Israel?
- Is He no more the God of Jacob?
- Have we gentiles not been grafted IN AMONG the olive tree? (ROM 11:17)
- Isn’t the one new man both Jew and Gentile?
- Have we gentiles not been “brought near” by the blood of the Jewish Messiah? (Eph 2)
- Will God fail to make good on the Abrahamic and Davidic covenant, which were both Unilateral and unconditional? (Unlike the bi-lateral Mosaic covenant, summarized by “If you do this”....”then I will”, which had attached to it blessings and curses...The severity of which was Expulsion from the land promised to Abraham-see Deuteronomy-hence AD 70, yet another cycle of covenant discipline -with the promise of being brought back again-hence 1948) and an ultimate fulfillment yet future, when Israel is brought into the New covenant as a nation when they “look upon Me whom they pierced and mourn for Him as a firstborn” (Zechariah 12-14) and have the spirit of grace and supplication gloriously poured upon them and Jesus establish the Kingdom in Israel (the land promised Abraham) on His father David’s throne in Zion (the promise made to David) the kingdom which, Revelation reveals to be, 1,000 years. The Kingdom finally restored to Israel (Acts 1:3; Acts 1:6)
- Was not the New Covenant, ratified in Yeshua’s blood made with the House of Israel?
- Are we gentiles not the first fruits to provoke Israel to jealousy? (Deut 32:21) (Romans 11:11)
You can’t start in Revelation and work backwards. Begin in Torah, then the prophets, then Jesus, then apostles. This is a responsible hermeneutic.
- If God has cast off Israel what hope do we have that He will remain faithful to us?
- If God has cast off Israel what exactly do you do with the nation of Israel presently?
- If God has cast off Israel why does Satan’s opposition and rage continue against her?
- If God has cast off Israel, or so we think, we will know them after the flesh and forget “the calling and election of God are irrevocable” (ROM 11:29), strip the Jew of covenantal status and continue down a slippery slope which historically has led to the persecution of the Jew, in the name of (GULP).........................................................the God of Jacob and Jesus Israel’s Messiah. (see church history. )
Saints, reconsider.
Great thoughts. I’ll have to run some of these by Doug if he comes back to discuss this.
The period in 30-70AD, was the apostolic age. Both Ishmael and Isaac were sons. However in 40 years later, 70AD, According to Galataians 4:30, the bondwoman and her son were cast out. True Israel, which believed in Christ now were called Christians, along with the Gentiles. The progression of the people of God goes from glory to glory: Hebrews -> Israelites->Jews->Christian.
@Trinity Respecter Israel is Israel God's beloved non Jewish are gentiles Christians thry are not the same. God LOVES ISRAEL AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE. Christians have been graften in. God will keep his word regarding Israel. Christians are not replacing the Jewish people
Wow, Doug doesn't even know that the beasts in Daniel 7, and the first beast in Revelation 13 are speaking of the same kingdoms!
Where does tribulation fit into all this? Is tribulation the 7 years that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans?
haha. Lot of questions they can't answer
I watch videos like this one, because we should be well versed in the views being spread around, and we are exhorted to always have an answer why we believe what we do, when an unbeliever asks us why. That said, I am a premil dispensationalist, but enjoyed the video, and it was not dry.
My take is this...whether we believe He will come before, or after, or during the tribulation, or whether we believe we are in the millennium or not, doesn't matter. It will not change how we are saved, or the great commission that we have been given, to reach others, it won't keep us out of heaven, and we will all see the fulfillment of God's plan. 😊
Except if you take the mark of the beast which many "Christians" will. Neuralink. Cashless money.
Jesus has many verses about being PREPARED! Know what this entails!
I don't know. Calvinism may lead one to not pray for forgiveness. That may even be the aim. You are already chosen. So why ask? Seems a dangerous doctrine. As for Christ not coming back to establish his Kingdom? Literally? Well, that's breaking a covenant. I think this guy is flat out wrong. It looks like a wolf to me.
@@gregpierce9800and then you still don’t get it either so you’re just as deceived. We don’t pray for forgiveness. We trust in Jesus Christ and his finished work which places into Christ and then are forgiven all trespasses by faith.
At 42:05, Pastor Doug mentions Mat 26:64/Mark 14:62 when Jesus says, "you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Jesus, here, is speaking to Caiaphas, the High Priest. But, Caiaphas died in 36 AD, so how could he have seen Jesus come in judgment in 70 AD?
He starts off talking to one person, but then addresses everyone there. The “You” in “You shall see the son of man” is plural. Compare with KJV or versions from other languages, like spanish, that make a distinction between singular and plural you
Ouch! You nailed it doug! The premils like to pretend they're believing in literalism but then talk about Apache helicopters and such. I've been there and done that too but niw ive seen the light and became a postmil.
Revelation 20 does not use the term Millennium, but it does say "one thousand years" six times in the first seven verses. So yeah, we take that literally.
A "pre-mill" saying that what John "may have" seen was apache helicopters is not a doctrinal stance whatsoever, so that jab that he took was childish at best. Furthermore, most of us take Revelation 9:9 very literally, and we have no need to have an explanation provided from a mere human perspective. I must ask: do you believe that the Red Sea was parted literally? Or that the flood covered the whole earth? We have to be careful when reading our Bible, lest we find ourselves at the very first mention of someone questioning what God said.
Genesis 3:1 KJV
"NOW the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said"
@@flman9684 yes we do need to be careful what genre the author is writing in. Thank God apache helicopters are not a doctrinal stance but a popular or widely held theory amongst the premillennials I grew up in and still know.
@@flman9684 a thousands years or voices or hills is used in the old testament as expression of infinitude. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, who owns the cattle on the 1001th hill?
@@flman9684 pick up and read Psalm 18 and tell me do you read that as littleraly as you read Genesis
@james hook God is declaring ownership of all things in that passage you cited. Completely different than God saying "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan SHALL be loosed out of his prison"
And again, I contend that the apache reference is a strawman argument against our position. I have never heard a single pre-millenialist say that it will actually be apache helicopters.
1 Thess 4 makes me happy and full of hope. plus He comes like a thief. during great trib there will be such chaos that 2 women will not be working in a field. God has to shorten the days to save some flesh. so they will know the day the 7 year's end. Harpazo is an event where Christ does not set foot on earth. Jesus is not immovable away from The Father. In His glorified body he came to the disciples while they were cooking fish and He said I am Ahungered. He was here with them for a moment. he can pretty much be where He wants to be.
I am looking up and forward to hearing that trumpet, else why wld Paul say Comfort one another with these words...
Jesus also told us the time frame in which the prophesies of the Olivet Discourse would occur - "this generation" Matthew 24:34. Jesus is and will remain at the right hand of the Father until every enemy is made a footstep under his feet, just like the Bible says.
Christ's enemies will be subdued (prior to death at the general resurrection) by God's wrath and judgment (Ps. 110:5-7).
This corresponds to Rev. 19:17-21 & Rev. 20:7-10.
It will not be a peaceful world that Christ will find at his coming but a destroyed world. PostMil has reason to be optimistic only when it comes to the success of evangelization of the world (the calling of all the elect) but not in terms of world peace since the scriptures tell us that wars and tribulation will proceed Christ coming. God will subdue Christ's enemies by means of force and judgment.
Premmillennialists must explain where people who die during the millennium go upon death, while Jesus Christ rules on Earth at Jerusalem. They must also explain Matthew 25 about the judgment of the sheep and goats. If the goats are cast into everlasting hell, as per Matthew 25:46, then Revelation 20 about the Great White Throne in which every single dead individual Will be raised from the dead, conflicts with the Matthean judgment.
I would argue that before the 20th century the main view in the church was postmillennialism rather then amillennialism. My basis for saying this is that the term "amillennialism" did not existed prior to the 20th century. Sow saying, for example, that Augustine was Amill is anachronistic, and therefore, not valid.
And I'll even say that it's highly plausible that postmillennialism was the view from the early church until the counter-reformation.
What's my basis?
Well... I recommend reading
"Always Victorious: The earliest church not pre- but postmillennial" by Dr.F.N. Lee:
www.dr-fnlee.org/always-victorious-the-earliest-church-not-pre-but-postmillenial/
By the way, Dr. F.N. Lee was a historicist postmillennial and didn't believe in a final apostasy at the unbinding of Satan because the text says in verse 3 the he was bound never to deceive the nations again. Sow, those in the unbinding are not the alive christianized nations, but the dead of the second resurrection being raised up from the dead for perdition; and Satan deceive them because they were in hell prior to the resurrection. Therefore, you can have the perseverance of the saints (5th point of calvinism) in the unbinding of Satan because there will be no apostasy from the church. That's he's view and difficult to proof, but interesting.
Here's the reference: www.dr-fnlee.org/johns-revelation-unveiled-part-2/119/
I thought the the world just meant all nations. He has a remnant from all nations, every tribe and tongue?
The sealed pit must have a leak
What about when Jesus said, "will the Son of Man find faith on the earth when He returns"? Sounds to me like Jesus is very skeptical of how many believers there will be when He returns. And, the Bible seems to indicate it will be like just before the flood when Christ returns.
Yes. And just as the flood came and snatched away the dwellers of the earth, so God will send out his angels and take away everyone from his kingdom that live in iniquity and causes others to stumble. They will be snatched away just like the people were snatched away by the flood.
On the contrary, I think he is expecting the answer to be many, and he us giving that teaching so that Christian's are encouraged. Moreover, Jesus himself explains in what way he is referring to the days of Noah, that it happened on a day like any other. People were still doing activities that expect a far off future, like getting married, or day to day stuff like eating and drinking. I think it is dangerous to go too far with filling in the blanks of what isn't said.
Only 8 people were found uncorrupted and righteous when the flood came. They were the only ones who went into the Ark.@@oracleoftroy
@@oracleoftroyno. Jesus said the way is narrow and just a few will enter.
@@RKay-ku1ni "For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
Somewhat yes, Jesus did say few will find it rather than few will enter. And let's make the claim as restrictive as possible for sake of argument. There are so few that find it that the number is 0. After all "no one seeks after God" is also taught in scripture. If no one is seeking, no one is finding. Man is terrible at saving themselves after all.
But here's the thing. That doesn't mean God isn't saving people. God is mighty to save despite our sinfulness and or lack of seeking. Saying that few find the narrow way, even zero, apart from God's work of salvation says nothing about the immeasurable multitude of people God will save.
What amazes me about Revelation is how most people come to the book with a preconceived narrative, and then they try desperately to force that narrative into the text itself. You can't hammer square pegs into round holes. It never will fit. Case in point? How many people run to Revelation 20:4 and automatically use this as a proof text for the thousand year reign of Christ? But the text emphatically states, "THEY will reign," not "he will reign." Who then is the "they?" Its obviously the martyred souls. They reign for a thousand years. Christ is already reigning before the thousand years, through the thousand years, and after the thousand years. Matthew 28:18.
The Seven Mountains strategy goes back 45 years with Bill Bright and Loren Cunningham, and Francis Schaeffer had the same vision. So it's not necessarily a charismatic thing.
Charismatic Movement began around 1960. Also the fact that he had a “vision”, well... makes it charismatic
@@wolverine114 didn’t people in the Bible have visions too?
@@dannystrikes9284 so did Joseph Smith and Muhammad, that don't make them Believers though.
Claiming to have visions doesn't make one a prophet, proclaiming the truth of the Word does.
Prophets are one of the 5 fold ministries. And also "covet to prophesy" Paul said. We need the WHOLE ministry picture...God's not silent...we just need to clear up distorted view of the future built on misunderstood scriptures
Are there any non-Calvinist partial preterists?
I think a good amount of Catholics hold to this view.
Here
If Satan is bound now, how can Paul say that the prince of the power of the air is now working in the sons of disobedience? (Eph 2:1-3). How can we be wrestling with principalities, powers, and spiritual wickedness in high places? (Eph 6:12). How can Paul say that Satan is the god of this world? (2 Corinthians 4:4). How can Paul instruct believers to deliver a rebellious Christian over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the Spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus? (1 Corinthians 5:1-5). How can Paul say that anyone is being held captive by Satan to do his will if he is currently bound in their interpretation of Revelation 20? (2 Timothy 2:25-26). I have not heard very convincing answers to these questions yet even though I am starting to lean Post mill. Anyone knowledgeable about eschatology that leans post mill feel free to answer.
Even after your explanation of the diff between Amill and Post-Mill the 2 views seem really similar especially after you talk about Satan being released.
They are a little similar, more than the types of premillennialism. The difference is that Postmillennialism believes that signs of righteousness in the governments of world indicate that this could be the millenial kingdom after which Messiah will return. Amillennialists don't look for signs of righteousness as indications that Messiah will return be returning sooner, they believe that Messiah can return at any time regardless of the state of the world, good or bad. For Amillennialists the millennial kingdom is symbolic and began after the Ascension.
@@catchy_tune amill makes more sense to me then.
@@philipbooth8076 Ok
“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Revelation 20:7-10
So when Satan is released to deceive one last time he’s gonna have “believers” because the whole world is “Christianized” is what you said, to fight against Christ? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
post mill never makes sense
I enjoy listing to Pastor Doug & have great respect for him, even though I disagree with his views on Eschatology. I noticed that you guys (The Remnant Radio) also did a video on the Amillennial view with Sam Storms, but I couldn't find in your archives a video on the Premillennial view. Will you guys be doing one on that view as well, to give all 3 a proper time to define & defend it's views?
Beware your adversary the devil roams about like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour
So the enemies of Christ in the whole earth are going to be subdued by the church? What faith!
I'm a post-mill but I don't like bringing in technological progress to argue about the Kingdom of God. The expansion of the Kingdom is about increase in holiness/love/the rule of Christ. It is wrong to conflate the two. Things may get awful over the next 20 years. When you compare 1940 to 1900 the world was in much worse shape. We can't fixate on peace and prosperity over a short time period.
There is so much eisegesis in this postmil view. If you let scripture define itself, you won't have to read your own understanding into it.
I just ordered a book today from Cannon Press that discusses this item. Got good people telling me I should be amilinia .
Jesus saves all.
Hell is real.
Therefore, Hell is merely temporary, for those who go there.
The thing that bothers me about preterism is why didn't God include something in the Bible about the fall of Jerusalem and the vindication of Christ after it happened? Like it seem like an important thing to have in the story rather than just the prediction and then you have to go look at Josephus or whoever to see what happened.
If there was something like that then critics would say that it was all written at the same time. Much like how they say Daniel was written in the second century BC instead of the sixth. Plus, there’s nothing wrong with us seeing God’s prophecies come to pass in secular histories. It’s a good witness.
The guest says that Psalm 110:1 is proof that the "symbolic" millennial kingdom began once Christ ascended and sat at the right hand of the Father. Due to this literal interpretation, he believes that the kingdom will end once Jesus leaves his place at the Father's side to return to Earth.
I disagree with this interpretation. 1 Corinthians 15:25 explains that to sit at the Father's right hand means to Reign. It's not necessary for Christ to be at the Father's right hand in order to reign. Zechariah 14 explains that the day that Yahweh aka Jesus becomes king over the Earth (Zechariah 14:9) will be the day when he'll fight against the nations that will gather against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-3). Clearly, Christ will be reigning while not being at the Father's right hand. Otherwise, we'd have to believe that Jesus will leave his reign in Zechariah 14:3 to fight his enemies and then resume his reign in Zechariah 14:9.
To affirm the reality of Jesus's reign apart from being at the Father's side, notice that the scene mentioned in Zechariah 14:5 is the same one described in Revelation 19:11-16 where Jesus arrives on Earth with his holy ones and has written on his robe and right thigh "King of Kings and Lord of Lords". Jesus will reign while not being at the Father's side during this scene. His titles and location prove that.
Furthermore, The Parable of the Ten Minas (Luke 19:11-27) explains that Jesus will go TO the Father in order to receive authority over the Earth and then he'll rule when he returns (Luke 19:11-15, 27).
Lastly, Jesus declared to the disciples before his ascension in Matthew 28:18 that he had already received all authority in heaven and on Earth. Jesus was not at the Father's right hand when he made this statement.
This is the declaration of the Lord to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”
Psalms 110:1 CSB
bible.com/bible/1713/psa.110.1.CSB
For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be abolished is death.
1 Corinthians 15:25-26 CSB
bible.com/bible/1713/1co.15.25-26.CSB
The PM position is pretty strong biblically. However, I think the tooty fruity portion of the advancing kingdom is not biblical. Jesus conquers objectively not through some Koom by Yah!