Doug Wilson and John Piper / Desiring God and Bacon
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2019
- The 2012 Desiring God conference for Pastors concluded with this two-hour-long conversation between John Piper and Doug Wilson, moderated by Joe Rigney.
Time markers:
0:01:06 - Unpacking the meaning behind the individual mission statements.
0:07:09 - The differences in how those mission statements are framed.
0:10:48 - Unpacking, comparing, and contrasting two subthemes: “Don’t waste your life” (Piper) and “Living out the good life one family at a time” (Wilson).
0:19:14 - Counteracting the negative tendencies of these subthemes (burnout/comfort).
0:23:00 - The shaping influence of Jonathan Edwards.
0:31:50 - On making the doctrine of the Trinity prominent in ministry.
0:35:50 - Edwards on the Trinity.
0:39:12 - The shaping influence of C.S. Lewis.
0:52:00 - Defining Christian Hedonism, differences and similarities.
1:02:05 - Does gratitude for material gifts lead to joy in the Giver? Or, does joy in God lead to enjoyment of the material gifts?
1:09:52 - On the role of self-denial in the Christian life.
1:15:22 - Discussion over Wilson’s statement, “God is most glorified in me when I love what he has given to me, for its own sake.”
1:32:05 - God delights in us because of Christ. But does he love me for me? Does he even like me, my personality, etc?
1:40:35 - Engaging the public square on social issues. Go deep on a few key issues (race, abortion), or address a broad range of issues (taxation, climate change, etc)?
1:49:00 - Responding to cultural sins with tears of sorrow or stinging satire?
1:58:53 - Closing prayer (Piper).
Something seems off about Piper. Kind of a darkness. Hard to explain.
Have anyone else noticed that John Piper looks like comedian Larry David? 😁
Why can't we all discuss issues and disagreements we have with such maturity and charity as these leaders? You can't talk about many of these issues and others with so many; even bretheren. It is grievous. People's presuppositions and judgements snuff out Christian charity and choke the lines of communication and the sharpening one of another...it is a shame on the modern church.
What is of interest is that John, with his emphasis on missions has lost his children. Doug, with his emphasis on living a good Christian life, has his family loving Jesus. The plus, is that with Doug’s view, he is more effective in missions.
doug sounds like he's trying to distance himself from augustine's neoplatonic model with the rejection of the contemplation of absolute divine simplicity. i think this is wise and i wish i'd been taught to appreciate the creation more instead of escaping into my head to waste my life on metaphysics. things would have been much better for me. he's right that too many christians reject the material world instinctively.
I feel like Piper's compassion for people has led him to sway with the wind rather than stand like a mighty oak.
I used to listen to John Piper a lot for a long while, like several hours a week for a couple years. I know his passion means well and is a true believer, but after listening to him I was always left with the weighty spirit of legalism rather than the free spirit of grace.
These two men have become like spiritual papas to me. The world can only benefit from hearing them in discussion. I only wish they would do it more often. Thank you so much for this.
When Piper says “we love to define terms”... reading Sayers lost tools of learning, she hates the lost art of defining terms. So yes, Christians must love to define terms bc we love truth and understanding. Well done men!
These are the best, thanks for sharing. It’s almost like Pastor Doug is this different thing on display for all these people and it’s weird and sounds funny, but everyone agrees w this crazy new idea. I smile every time I hear something and imagine how the crowd is shocked and turning over a new leaf at the same time! Keep it up cannon press
Man.. I'm learning so much from this conversation!! Thanks so much. I appreciate Doug's wisdom.
God bless these faithful men!
Look up to these men so much
Awesome conversation.
What a thought provoking discussIon! I find myself wanting Doug Wilson to be right on many things, but fearing that John Piper is right on many of the topics over which they disagreed. The final comments about one another at the end were quite uplifting. I too struggle with introspection like Piper and am grateful for his generous remarks.
Whew. Can’t believe these two sharing the same stage.
Lol i cant put my finger on it, but there's something so funny about the way Piper interacts with Doug
Good discussion. Paul E. Miller's position about overspiritualizing prayer seems to resonate with Doug's position about the 'period stop' talk.
Wow. This is fun!!! 😮
Should have another one of these 10 years after the fact