Lucas’ rep in Smash is kinda bad.
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Warning: This video contains a few spoilers for MOTHER 3.
Thanks to @esoSK_1 for recording footage for this video, as well as assisting with the thumbnail. Also thanks to @snowwood_ for also recording footage.
Thanks too to @DumbBabyTV, MakotoShirogan2, @popchi31 and Aqua MIDI for additional assistance with this video.
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Sources: tcrf.net/Prerelease:Mother_3
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www.ssbwiki.com/Lucas_(SSBB)
www.resetera.com/threads/supe...
sourcegaming.info/2016/01/04/m...
pidgi.net
starmen.net
mother4ever.net
smashbros.com
#earthbound #mother3 #smashbros #smashultimate #smashbrawl - Ігри
Imagine even having representation other than being a PNG file in Smash Brawl & Ultimate. Truly is a Ninten moment
We’ll get him in one day buddy… 😔
Ninten would be pretty cool if only to see how they'd do his design considering his actual design is basically just a prototype of Ness in looks and quality. And also to have all 3 protags in the game
Though Smash doesn't really much care about Earthbound in general much less any Nintendo series beyond Mario and Pokemon and Fire Emblem
@@flaco3462 but honestly, I know Earthbound/Mother is a big, basic pillar of Nintendo fandom in 2022… I but I think that’s ONLY because Ness was included in the original Smash (and the rest of the entries since).
Yeah, Earthbound has gotten plenty of traction and well deserved popularity in the modern era… but back in 94, it was a flop in the US and there was a teensy cult following that gave it the chance and knew how absurdly amazing it actually was. If SSB didn’t get Ness
on the roster, I believe the cult-hit status would’ve always been there and grown, but never ever ever have become a pillar if Nintendo’s franchise ecosystem.
So yall’re really putting some crisp hindsight on these outlooks about how this game series was done dirty in SSB. Irl, SSB was the hero vehicle that shined enough light on Mother to get it the attention it’s always deserved.
@@onesixski Yeah yeah, I know that Smash itself was the very game to put Earthbound into the spotlight at all, but nowadays like most it's just sorta there in the game and not really paid much attention as such a formality
It'd be NICE to get something other than a single stage and two remixes.
@@flaco3462 To say that Smash doesn't care about series other than those three is blatantly false. They put a lot of attention to detail and it serves also as a vehicle for obscure characters to remain in the public. But what's this, they didn't add an specific character/stage/music/item that you were specifically askinf for? Surely that means they don't care!
While Smash 4 didn't really improve Lucas's representation in Smash there's one small thing I loved... HE SMILES NOW
I know Lucas being a crybaby is something that was indeed stated in Mother 3 but that's pre-timeskip and I feel like him growing up to kinda embody the "No crying til the end" slogan works well for his character
It throws me off that he was smiling I always thought he was a serious character that’s why he didn’t smile and I thought he would be clapping to the side on his losing animation like dark pit or something 🤔don’t get me wrong it’s fine that he’s smiling but don’t tell me he’s just a copy and paste of Ness 😂 change color and hat to hair. Lol
love your quote pfp.
@@X.A.1 thanks, i made it myself
another thing that I noticed is that one of Lucas's inactive idle animation used to be him fighting ghosts weakly, but in Ult. that's been changed to him putting his hand on his forehead like as if he was CONFIDENTLY ready to strike a PSI attack
@@mercy.999 oh he was fixing his hair
i like to see lucas' character arc as him still not being confident in his abilities in brawl like in the majority of mother 3, but his smash 4 reveal trailer has him come back and be the exact opposite, much more confident and composed. it's very subtle storytelling and i adore that.
i don't think they're smart enough to have done that intentionally much especially considering they'd have to have intentionally left lucas out just to do a trailer for him much later
as returning characters when smash 4 came out didn't get a fancy trailer because why would they
They kind of do the same thing with Roy. They obviously didn’t make him a weak Marth clone in Melee on purpose, but in choosing to highlight how much different he is from Marth in his trailer, as well as dialing his aggressive playstyle up to 11, they end up telling the story of an inexperienced warrior carving out his own identity as a swordsman.
@@dc_dachi Roy is lame for most of the Binding Blade but once he gets the binding blade, he becomes amazing.
It's not even the entirety of mother 3, by chapter 3 little tot lucas is already exerting bravery and growth
For me, the Lucas from smash is not the original Lucas.
I played brawl and always wondered why Lucas is so depressed, I played his game and I see why
crazy. from almost dying, losing klaus and hinawa, (in)directly killing klaus and having to stop the end of the world and theres still more
Lmao
When I first played Subspace Emmisary when I was a kid, I originally thought that Ness and Lucas were brothers, due to the similarities of their designs
And I also thought that Ness was the strong and brave brother, and Lucas being the scaredy, insecure brother
lol samee4
I tought that Lucas was scared because well the death of his Mother, affect him so much that he develop some kind of fear to the world.
@@noctiskuzunoha4059 I honestly think Lucas arrived into the Smash universe after pulling the last needle, I think he's scared because, well, he saw his brother kill himself
@@PlumbG64 that could expalin why he was depress and why he run when he lookes Porky.
@@PlumbG64 I don't know too much about Mother 3, but I always assumed it was just after losing Klaus and Hinawa. At that point in the game, he was kind of timid and emotionally damaged. In fact, I think his character in the Subspace Emissary was a way of teaching western audiences about his character development because we didn't get Mother 3.
From "Who the hell is this kids!?" to "Oh that guy is from EarthBound" and "That's Lucas kid from the game we can't play on Switch".
to: "mother 3 is my most favorite game of all time"
@@notlucas6859 lucas family be like: 🤠🤯💀
It's just Brawl that didn't represent him well. Brawl based him off of his pre-time skip self, while Smash 4 and Ultimate based him off of his post-time skip self. Although, he's the only character to have character development within the Smash series. He was cowardly in The Subspace Emissary, until Ness sacrificed himself for him. Upon his return in Smash 4, he would return the favor in his reveal trailer, now with a smile on his face. In Ultimate, he even slightly became more courageous with the idle animation of him flailing his arms around being changed to him channeling his PSI.
@Dark Dumbsville (Anti Dumbsville) Communist Cult F-Zero is representing an entire series, while Mother 3 is just one of the games. Plus, both are long dormant series.
Doesn't he develop and become more brave throughout subspace? I thought that's what they were going with. Trying to reflect his arc
@@foursidekm That's because Lucas's character arc from Mother 3 is hard to transfer well in Smash, because there are characters to focus on.
I loved the buddy story between Lucas and Pokémon Trainer (Red). Really all the team ups throughout subspace was great. The whole teamwork and having each other's backs is a nice Nintendo theme.
Samus and Pikachu 😭
I feel like the portrayal of Lucas as a nervous scared little boy is more to showcase all of what he’s been through during his life. And then subspace provides gives us the character development of a cryer who needed Ness to save him, to a hero who was willing to die for his new friend Pokémon trainer. It’s because of subspace I always felt like he had so much more personality than Ness
Yeah, I feel if he was characterised like he is at the end of mother 3 there's a real chance he wouldn't of even come back for smash 4. Smash bros can't show all the intricacies of his arc so if he was characterised that closely to Ness way less people would of had any interest in him as a character because he'd just be seen as 'lesser Ness'
Lucas is the only character in subspace to have development, he starts off scared but then becomes brave, you even see him grab and try to save pokemon trailer when they're both falling to their death.
My problem with Lucas in Subspace is that they wanted to portray him as pre-time skip, unfairly contrasting him to the presumably post-Earthbound portrayal of Ness who is strong, courageous, and heroic; all traits Lucas would have in common with Ness if they had just decided to represent him as he was at the end of Mother 3.
It kinda just comes off as Ness favoritism to me, and this is coming from someone who literally mains Ness in every Smash game.
Eh, I disagree. Lucas is scared at the start but by the end he grows past that, making him one of 2 characters in the game with an actual arc. I think this was the best way to do it because it allows the character most people didn't know to prove himself and show he's just as good as Ness.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 Yeah, I can kinda see that. He does end up saving Red’s life and standing up to wario. I guess I just didn’t find his arc as impactful here as in his original game.
Which is admittedly kind of unfair of me since we’re comparing to a 15-hour side mode to a story/dialogue-heavy JRPG that’s more than double that length.
@@tixontoxin6429 Yeah obviously it won't be as in depth, but I think subspace gets the basics of this arc across well enough in the little time it is able to have for each character that I don't think it's fair to lump it in with the other problems with Mother 3s Smash rep
@@rennythespaceguy7285 The problem is giving Lucas more focus would less screen time for everyone else.
I think y'all don't really understand the importance of contrast.
If there were two brave psychic boys, the scene would be much more flat. Yeah it's a bit of a disservice to Lucas but it highlights their differences much better and creates an interesting dynamic.
I'm a Wario fan and yeah it feels off for him to be so diabolical with Ness but I understand Wario's origin is much more villainous and it makes for a better good v evil contrast.
Ness was ALWAYS brave. Lucas is characterized much more softly. He's still seeing his mom in reflections and sunflower fields. He can't bring himself to attack the Masked Man in the finale.
Mother 3 doesn't pull punches. For Lucas, King P is the guy responsible for destroying and brainwashing his community and ruining all of Tazmily's nature. The guy that brainwashed his friend, the Drago, into killing his mom, only to get killed by his dad, and similarly, forcing him to fight his lost twin to the death.
Lucas has all rights to be fucking terrified of this monster.
Meanwhile, for Ness this is just an old guy that looks a lot like his old asshole neighbor.
I don’t see it as him being a crybaby. Lucas is clearly just depressed in Subspace. If I went through all the shit he did in Mother 3, I'd be down too. Seeing that Porky statue in the Ruined Zoo likely ignited some PTSD. And Ness being his only friend that he loses almost instantly? It’s like Claus all over again.
Granted, I’m not an expert in the Earthbound series, so perhaps I’m missing things.
The Porky Statue is almost impossible to defeat without either PK Flash or the New Year's Eve bomb, so I don't blame Lucas for running. Granted, I'm pretty sure he knows PK Flash, but in sudden, scary situations it's understandable for a kid to panic and the flight instinct to kick in
@@whistlingstarlight2942Not in Smash he doesn't.
Ok but he is the only person to get any character development within Smash (well, him and R.O.B.)
And maybe Diddy Kong but not too sure
Captain Falcon too
Facts
This is really minor but I wish they gave lucas green eyes instead of blue to reference his mother64 design.
Also I somewhat hope that claus alphs his way into smash as a named alt for lucas because he's my favourite character and that seems low effort. Although at the same time that makes me feel awkward about how lucas' main form of recovery after being knocked off the stage is hitting himself with pk thunder. I know he gets struck by lightning at thunder tower but I can't help but think about how the battle against the masked man ends
One of the spirit things you missed was that the last 2 spirits in world of light were Hinawa and Claus, one of which you have to fight. I think this is really cool how these two spirits were given a bit of special attention here with their importance shown.
"They're reusing 2008 voice clips in a 2019 game." Hell, they've been using Jigglypuff's voice clips since 1999.
Also, Lucas not being in Melee is kind of a blessing in disguise since it would've meant Ness being replaced altogether with Lucas according to Sakurai and we wouldn't have the Perfect Attendance Crew throughout the series. I can't imagine not having the PK Kids in Smash together.
and captain falcon has literally never gotten new voices, even the "C'mon. BLUE FALCON" are reused from 64
@@stanzacosmi Why would they need new voice clips when they don't have much going on in terms of personality in the games?
@@chrisrockett5897 They don't really need new voice clips, unless its for a drastic characterization change like luigi from melee going into brawl got original voice lines instead of just high pitch mario. Thats what we were saying.
I think the whole point of Lucas and his portrayal in the Brawl Subspace Emmisarry was to vaguely show off what Lucas would go through in Mother 3.
Lucas begins Mother 3 scared and somewhat coweredly but grows brave throughout the game. And similar to Mother 3, Lucas begins Brawl's story mode scared and not brave but as he travels through the story, he is eventually confronted by Wario.
Wario had previously turned Ness into a trophy and after remembering this fact, Lucas battles Wario alongside Red (the Pokémon Trainer) and even attempts to save both Red and himself from being engulfed in an explosion while falling out of the sky.
Everything about Lucas's story in Brawl is basic character growth and development 101 in story writing.
Lucas's boss fight in Classic Mode not being Galleom is a crime.
Lucas in subspace is one of the reasons he's my favorite character to this day. I loved how he had an actual personality and somewhat of an arc.
Also, in World of Light, the last two spirits in the game (you had to fight one of these to fight the final boss) are Claus and Hinawa (Lucas' brother and mother). I don't know why they did this but I thought it was so cool on my first playthrough.
I remember reading that some of Lucas's moves where kicks inspired by Duster's way of fighting
If i had the ability to retool Lucas i would give him the musical notes and sounds from Mother 3 when landing moves
For stages, i think new pork city could work if it where actually made to be in the city instead of the random platforms from brawl, maybe on the street that has the Porky statue in One end, the statue replacing the ultimate chimera as the stage Hazard
I feel like they should have made Tazmily Village the smash stage
why arent the music note combos a thing?
I was able to infer that lucas' kicks were based on duster'a actually. He uses his legs in his moves a lot more than ness does so it just makes sense
@@isthatawormwildbowreferenc4562 I had to assume for sanity.
Trying to combo to music that's normally overlapped by multiple other sfx and voicelines sounds really hard.
@@ivrydice0954 that's true, but maybe it could be addapted to work when you do a consistent beat? i can see it being hard to pull off though
i love how they portray ness in the sub space emissary
WHY CAN HE FLY?
I'm a huge smash Bros slander when it comes to Ness, Oliamr and Lucas's portrayal but I have to make the devil's advocate here :
It's shown in the game that Ness has telekenisis, so "levitating" like he does inst really that out of character
11:10 this whole time I thought it was a weird joke about him playing the drums
Same, I'm gonna stick with that
Makes some sense, despite his instrument not being drums
The combat in Mother 3 is based around attacking to the beat to an extent
Imagine Itoi's reaction to 'Poo taught Ness Starstorm'
4:52 well actually, while it's not exactly from an album like Porky's Theme, the Brawl arragement of Brinstar from Metroid is actually taken directly from Metroid Prime Pinball instead of being an remix unique to Brawl unlike what the game says. :P
In brawl he felt like his 10 year old self but in smash 4 and onward he felt Like his 13 year old Self
I think the worst part about there being basically no trophies, is lucas's smash renders are basically the ONLY official art for these characters we have aside from the sprites
Duster still doesnt have any official art that isnt outdated concept art aside from his in game appearance and thats a travesty
saw the title and thumbnail and immediately thought "AH, A VIDEO SPECIFICALLY FOR 11-YEAR-OLD ME. DELICIOUS."
Totally agree with your New Pork City critiques-- ye olden fandom really took the whole jet boosters thing and ran with it, despite the fact that the Nowhere *Islands* (plural!) is an archipelago and NPC could've easily been established on one of those. I will say the weird sprite re-usage might've been trying to lean into the "Fake" look of the city, with all the cardboard cut-outs? Not saying it was successful, just saying I think I see what their train of thought was.
Now, onto the meat and potatoes of the issue: Thank. You. So. *MUCH.* for mentioning how strange the art direction for Mother characters turned out in this series. Like, not just Ness and Lucas, but really all of them look pretty strange (except for you, Boney. we all love you.) and it's jarring to try to picture the narrative attached to these characters. Obviously it would be an infinitely worse situation if they had tried to go for some gritty realist style, but surely something a BIT more defined wouldn't've hurt? At least not so... strangely bobble-headed...
That Thunder Tower stage idea is making me feel like a kid in a candy store-- the lightning gun could go off occasionally and be a stage hazard! You could see the airships in the background! Sooo much potential.
Ultimately I think this was a really reasonable critique! It's especially refreshing to see more people understanding they got his entire personality wrong. I played Mother 3 before I ever played a Smash game, so it always left me wondering where that stubborn kid who fought ghosts and broke into government facilities had gone. Such is life.
18:12 You forgot to mention how the background in the final Smash is a reference to the final battle of Mother 3! It's so cool. Narratively, it doesn't make sense, but is cool regardless!
i never really played much brawl growing up but picking it up again to record footage was a blast even if my capture card sucks. considering how many people were introduced to the mother series through smash, its such a bummer that lucas left such a lame first impression on anyone unfamiliar with who he actually is
cool video dawg
"And that's okay, however...", the video
I still think it’s wild Porky went from being a boss in Brawl to absolutely NOTHING in ultimate. Yeah yeah I get the capsules there but the crafting recipe doesn’t imply Porkys in it at all. It just gave me false hope he’d be a future fighter
I really wish ultimate gave us a duster assist throphy like how jeff got one. He could use a variety of his theif tools. It just feels unfair since every other main party member from mother 2 and 3 has a 3d model represented in the game
Lucas should have had more than one or two moves that he can use. Heck i recently saw a video called Wario vs Lucas that actually represents Lucas perfectly! Its a vs battle episode but there is zero smash stuff. It really feels like Lucas!
And worst of all, they made Ness share the same victory theme with Lucas, and it isn't even from his OWN FUCKING GAME.
The pokemon victory theme is from red & blue and only half the characters are gen 1.
In all fairness
_Rookie numbers_
@@ivrydice0954 But it's the same intro all the way to Pokemon X and Pokemon Y.
Honestly, in Subspace I was always just amazed that Lucas managed to trip over a root and get his foot caught UNDER it.
But yeah, I have to boost what everyone else is pointing out. Lucas' Brawl self seems more based on how he was before gaining his courage and power. In Subspace we see a mirror of the development he experienced in Mother 3, starting off cowardly and working to change that after Ness sacrificed himself. And then he comes back for Smash 4, confident, smiling, and finally returning the favour to Ness. Ultimate follows 4's example and gives us this stronger Lucas. So it's not that Smash is representing Lucas poorly, it's just that maybe Brawl chose the wrong point in Lucas' life to draw inspiration for his portrayal from.
Lucas’ Boney alternative costume is actually a reference to his human disguise in MOTHER 3 - a niche but cool nod.
The saddest part of not having Subspace story mode is the lack of fighting iconic bosses, atleast add like a boss rush mode or something where that could be done.
4:52 If I remember correctly, the only Sonic remix in the entire series, Angel Island Zone was also taken directly from a remix album
As a kirby fan, I had no idea other people felt the same about their series' representation
As a Kirby fan and fan of Lucas I know for a fact people feel the same. I also know that Sonic fans especially feel the same, lots of people do. Zelda fans as well and Bowser fans.
I could go on. There's a lot of people who're understandably like this about their series' rep in Smash
Oh yeah, Wario and Pikmin as well.
@@flaco3462 I'm sure those people had it rough. Nitpicking every aspect about a series and not getting their wants and needs in the end? Can't imagine a more underprivileged group. I'll get my violin and play them a song.
@@SteelTiamat Sometimes I look at those people who talk about Smash solely for whatever "hype" thing should get into the game and I think (Must be nice to be someone so easily pleased by this game)
I'm glad I'm not one of those people
And I'm glad I'm not you
@@flaco3462 Sometimes I look at those people who think they have it bad, the ones who feel they've been wronged and are owed something by someone, the candy ass gamers who let every small detail ruin an otherwise good experience, the ones who believe it's always all or nothing, and can't help but feel a bit sorry for them. Just a bit. Self inflicted dissapointment often merits no emphathy. There's having high expectations, then there's being a cunt. Like you, little man.
I was a Kirby fan, Earthbound fan, and Sonic fan!
Nitpick nitpick nitpick nitpick. Jeez 😂
No kidding.
Ness also gets PK Magnet.
Really cool video!
As a big MOTHER 3 fan I love hearing your ideas to improving MOTHER 3 Representation in the game, specially the ones with the new victory animation and the new buff special, and of course, more music.
That said I will admit I kinda like how Lucas is in Smash. Like first of all, yeah, Brawl Lucas sucks, but I like his base because he goes offensive with Kuma powers to push you off and if he needs to gets close, use kicks and his stick because Lucas actually even if he is really defensive in mother 3, he hits hard and also, the most power attack Pk love is one that cost him a lot of pp and in smash case, can be punish, his Up Smash, thats also a reference to a needle pull. Like in a playstyle level have a bit of Mother 3 flavor. (I Know in Smash ult tips they called it pk geyser but that tips are really... weird? and the end of the day both are show as hexagons and even in smash 4 the colors starts to match even more the pk love animations)
Also I kinda like he uses the rope snake, not because is a mother 3 reference, but because Lucas talk with animals and be their friends, and in general feels like this kids that uses pk love in general but then his omega version when is most needed and is doing his hardest and learning from their friends.
And maybe this just sounds weird to this point but I also love his character in Brawl history mode, because yes, he is a coward and let ness die, but also, he was scared when he was a child and let claus go to kill the draco and then run away of his dad and grandpa crying in Hinawa funeral, and then he starts to grow and become a better person and be more brave, like in brawl, because he dont make the same mistake twice, he saves Red lifes after he gave up in Galleom hand, he dont lose his new friend again, and also I like how Red becomes more human with him but thats a story for another Day. Like I will argue that Lucas arc in Subspace represent the grow of the character greately.
Dont get me wrong, I agreed with most said in this video but I find some of the Smash ideas of Lucas good, his friends are important to him so I like he have references and specially Kuma appears in his final Smash, and I think you can get some of his personality of how he is in Smash, like he still is shy, and I want to praise that a bit, I dont think he is one of the best ones but a okay one with a good base.
Brawl was the game that introduced me to Lucas. Absolutely *LOVED* his character development in Subspace Emissary and it is why he is my #1 main (actually was really saddened when he was initially not included in Smash 4 before returning as DLC) in Smash Bros to this day.
It’s insane to me that at the very least Mother 3, an incredible soundtrack, doesn’t have more music in Ultimate with it’s massive track list
It's because most of Mother 3's soundtrack would get nintendo sued for copyright, most of Mother 3's songs are all even taking and using parts of popular songs at the time that weren't in public domain and still aren't, in japan this is not a problem because law there is different, but here? Would be a very bad idea.
There is another "remix" in SSBB that debuted in an arrangement album, Sonic's Angel Island, meaning that Sonic technically has never had a remix in Smash.
To be fair, it's intended that just like PK Star Storm Lucas was lent the Rope Snake just for his Smash move set
Another W Video from another W person
Why is that your pfp it looks odd
@@amano4572 It's him(or his sona) dressed as Ness. What's the issue?
I will say you forgot to mention the Palutena's Guidance for Lucas in his Ultimate section, which I have a feeling your view of might be...negative, speaking that Pit and Palutena largely talk about him being shy and questioning why he's even fighting at all, with Viridi calling him a crybaby as well. As a huge fan of Kid Icarus Uprising my opinion on Palutena's Guidance characterizations as a whole are mixed. Great video though! Honestly in my mind Smash Bros. Lucas (especially Subspace Lucas) and Mother 3 Lucas feel like entirely different characters.
6:24 so you just want me to ignore the fact salsa is just casually part of the party at this point in the game
I think this is a topic that could be heavily expanded upon since there's *so* many instances of poor representations in smash
Maybe I could do that....
Wario, for example.
@@aerth6946 the wario representation is truly the worst out of everyone
@@EchoGulch64 I personally think Sonic’s is the worst. But Wario got it pretty bad too
@@DaEgg123 I think Olimar is the worst. Badly telegraphed attacks, abusage of Pikmin,Next to no strategy, having Alph as an alt even tho they have different personalities and no voice acting which is a crime given how amazing his voice is.
Edit:Also you can't see what Pikmin you are throwing.
@@Lukkak09 As a Pikmin fan its also disappointing how stale the Pikmin look, to me one of the most charming visuals in pikmin are the pikmin themselves, and they just seem stale, I know in game they don't really have that much but they could at least make some expressions
Tbh idk why they didn’t make Lucas’s classic mode in ultimate, based on the 4 needle bosses, the masked man, porky, and then fight like that monster hunter boss for the dragon
im so happy someone made a video about this. Lucas' rep is so terrible compared to how he's supposed to be portrayed in mother 3
The trophies in Brawl all relate to Brawl the most, with Lucas obviously being a character, Mr. Saturn and the Franklin Badge being items, and Porky and the statue being bosses in the Subspace Emmisary.
so anyone else pissed off that the moves that ness clearly doesnt know are his specials and the incredibly limited use of his toys, along with the complete lack of any meaningful inclusion of PSI Rockin? The same goes for Lucas, too..
Yes, it really pisses me off
Yeah and how if you say you main Lucas, people say “you’re such an annoying person” because of the PK freeze, which Lucas doesn’t even have in mother 3….
subspace depicts him as strong the moment he's made a friend
he stands up for himself and said friend
this could be taken as repeating his arc (implying he's taken out of around the start of mother 3 and ends up the same) or he just needs friends to be a strong person
Hey, don't make fun of Lucas for having Gysers be his favorite thing
I mean I feel like his Subspace representation was great. He goes from that depressed crybaby to a more confident young man just like he does in Mother 3.
Watching brawl gameplay again brings me nostalgia when I first played smash bros bowel and beat subspace emissary
Banger job on this one Jonathan, I can see a real improvement with your videos lately!
11:14
*spoilers ahead for mother 3*
This idle animation could be a reference to his fight with Claus as the masked man, where if you attack him at a certain phase it will say something like "Lucas closed his eyes" and it will cause you to miss, along with "Lucas was holding back tears" as well maybe?
Could also be a reference to when he was a bit more cowardly as a 10 year old boy
Mightve gotten the dialogues wrong, havent played M3 in a couple years
6:40 there's actually a surprising other series to have this remixes-only claim, and it's one that you wouldn't ever expect - Pokémon. It took until Smash 3DS to even get a port of Lumiose City by itself, but at the time of Brawl they were remix-only, and Ultimate also only introduced remixes. I think Sakurai is just generally against importing music from a handheld game, fearing lower audio quality?
Interesting topic, I feel like it's hard to expect too much when even the base character itself is already bringing 3D life to a GBA sprite, with an expectation that all music has to be remixed (not just for the above, but also to suit New Pork City), but I definitely didn't know about borrowing from the remix CD
I also thought the crybaby attitude made him kinda likeable in comparison to the more personality-less Ness, it at least reflected early game Lucas if they didn't want to spoil the game's progression (ignoring the fact that they did), characters like Shulk more clearly aim to represent the RPG characters mid-game than post-game, with others like realistic sounds Bowser showing Sakurai's desire to represent "his" vision of the characters. Here, I think it worked, Lucas was always one of my favourite characters as a kid
Also, Lucas's first weapon was called a stick but was shown to be a wooden baseball bat. The normal wooden stick he uses would be actual Flints weapon. I think they could've down somethings like, giving him his Real bat or Mystical stick.
Interestingly enough, Lucas can equip that stick that Flint steals from Boney. The lumber weapons are exclusive to Flint, but most sticks can be equipped by both characters.
I Think I Really Love Lucas From Mother 3.
Lucas probably ran from the porky statue because he didn't have a new year's eve bomb
Imagine losing your mom and brother after saving the world only to be depicted as a scared wimp.
One little thing in Ultimate is very much one of my all time is that Lucas's shirt when zoomed in on is knitted out of wool, which I find cute and a clever reference.
I think Sakurai and his team maybe made Lucas into a coward in brawl in contrast to Ness who‘s being depicted as brave and powerful. It’s a better character dynamic but it does kinda suck that in smash Lucas isn‘t more than just Ness‘ wimpy sidekick
That art at the end was amazing, especially for someone so young!
It's not much, but it's absolutely iconic by Sakurai to made the "last" Spirits battles in World of Light from Mother 3. So in the last section of World of Light, the map divides in two sections with "good" spirits and "evil" spirits representing the battle between Galeem and Darkhon, and the Spirits in either side match. Your objective is to beat all the Master Hands and Crazy Hands, to unlock the Final Boss of the mode. And the Spirits right before where the Final Boss appears are Hinawa and Claus from Mother 3. Not from Mario or Zelda, but from Mother 3.
(Disclaimer: technically you can fight them before the Final Boss appears as the map is open to go as you wish, but that's still a fact)
I think Mother 3 had some great representation in World of Light specifically. The Hinawa spirit fight was at the very end of the story and (spoilers) it made sense that she was a… spirit. All of your points are valid, but I tienda wish you acknowledged the World of Light part
the footage of the side special spam was so difficult to watch lmao
I agree with your points. I just think that this Lucas could be him in the middle of the 3 year time skip. and maybe subspace, being a new timeline, is how he started to grow braver like the mother 3 version of him. That's how I see it anyways. Overall I can understand why the representation is lacking.
I wish the MOTHER series was better represented in general
Good video! I just think your bit at the end about making his idles more like the other's characters in MOTHER 3 to be going against what you said earlier, about how it feels like Lucas is an amalgamation of MOTHER 3 and not himself, and your suggestion would only make it even more like that.
I don’t know how to word this exactly but I feel like mimicking his friend’s mannerisms isn’t quite the same as Lucas inexplicably having their abilities. Especially when Lucas himself in M3 doesn’t have that many animations to pull idles from, when he does however have many moves and attacks he can do that the developers could’ve pulled from instead of Kumatora’s PSI.
There is another remix that comes from an outside source, that being Angel Island Zone. It was made for a Sonic anniversary album, which makes Sonic's representation even worse. Imagine having only one remix and its not even original.
The reason for the lack of Mother 3 trophies is because most trophies are reused models from other games to save time. Since Mother 3 has no models, they just used the models already made for Brawl. It explains other stuff like all the Fire Emblem trophies only coming from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn.
But the album itself says it was made for Brawl, it says the name of the track and "SSBB Remix" alongside it.
Somehow I didn't know there were Fire Emblem trophies that weren't Marth and Ike and their final smashes :v
@@yagofazcoisaseuacho8035 Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are both Ikes games lol
@@davidgoldammer348 yeah, i kinda said that wrongly, what I meant was that I thought the only FE trophies were Ike and Marth + their Final Smashes
@@yagofazcoisaseuacho8035 ah got it
“I don’t think there’s been another case of a new remix being from a pre existing album”
Funny thing about that, in the same game there has. Well sorta, it’s a case you briefly went over actually. The Angel Island remix (Sonic’s only remix) is also on True Blue, a Japan only Sonic album released a week prior to Brawl. The album still calls it “SSBB remix,” so I’m meant to assume it was gonna be released after Brawl at first, but the delay caused it to predate it instead.
After u unlock the maskedman spite from I believe beating the adventure mode it is also possible to encounter a spirit battle with him on the spirit board.
I know someone who once told me that when they first saw Ness and Lucas in Brawl alongside their home stages they thought that Earthbound/Mother was an "Animal Crossing-type game" and honestly that tells me everything I need to know about how well the series was represented back then
What kind of dude seeing lightning popping out of kids skulls and thinks.
"Yeah that's a life sim."
nah I get it, the way the Mother characters look is pretty cartoony and kinda similar to Animal Crossing. If they (or even just Lucas) were in a style like EarthBound 64’s art style, it’d be a lot easier to tell their from a JRPG.
To add to your pount of him being strong without spoiling the game, the franklin badge 1v1 boss alone was proof of his courage. All the game led to that moment where he had to stand on his own. I hated lucas until i played mother 3 and realized how dirty they did him
I’ve always thought Lucas’s reveal trailer for Smash4 was a reference to how Ness saved him in subspace
4:52 i think that's also the case for Angel Island zone
I wish tamilly was Lucas’s stage. Tazmilly is the heart of mother 3, with it changing as the story evolves it would have been perfect.
I gave Lucas a pass back then is because if any character has a reason to be sad? It's HIM.
Plus, at the midnight release of Brawl, they had a tourney, and I chose Lucas, and his Up Smash got me to 3rd place.
Im surprised you didnt talk about smash ultimate updating the pk animations to mimic the games effects
I just released a cool idea they could do if they add battle themes, what if the variants played when a certain conidtion happens
I wish more people would complain about the representation a specific game or series gets in Smash. Mother 3 may not have been represented super well in Brawl, but at least Brawl had a pretty good spread of content (fighters, stages, and music) for every series it represented. Come Ultimate, though, if it's not Mario, Pokemon, or Fire Emblem, it might as well not exist. Pikmin got two new remixes. Earthbound also got two, but one was Fourside, which already had a remix in the game. Star Fox got _zero_ new remixes, but at least it got a few songs from Zero. Sonic, the series _known_ for its music, has no new remixes, and only _one_ remix total. Even the vocal themes aren't even the full versions. The situation for characters and stages for a lot of these series is even worse. At least newcomers (notably Simon and Ryu) have good representation in their movesets, which is a lot more than I can say for most returning characters.
I've always thought that instead of being a health absorb PSI Magnet should increase the power of your next PSI based attack kind of like Incineroar's Revenge mechanic. But that would have probably been way too complicated to implement back on the N64 when Ness debuted.
I get your critiques on how Lucas is represented in Mother 3 and feel similarly on some of their points since Lucas is one of my favorite characters in fiction period, but I felt that the choice to make him start off cowardly/scared in Subspace was a good one. By the time Brawl came out, Mother 3 was clearly not getting localized and Sakurai knew this. Something you gotta remember about Smash is that, in the literal lore of the series, all the characters are trophy replicas of the original characters. They're not the actual characters from the games note for note. (Kid Icarus Uprising is the only exception to this rule, but no other character in Smash ever references their adventures in Smash outside of the game series).
This isn't the same Lucas from Mother 3 who grew through everything that happened, this is just a trophy clone of him. Likewise, since Sakurai knew that most international audiences wouldn't get to play M3, he decided to give Lucas the character arc he had in M3 but in Subspace. We see Lucas grow from a crybaby into his own strong person who literally saves Pokemon Trainer's life and rises to the challenge of fighting Tabuu with the others, he's literally the only character in Subspace besides ROB who has a character arc which is a huge part of what endeared a lot of people to him internationally, and got them to look into Mother 3. I thought that was perfectly fine honestly. That said, I agree that they really didn't need to spoil all of Mother 3 in Lucas's Brawl trophy, that was pretty rude honestly.
Also, one cool thing you missed when talking about Ultimate's spirits, in World of Light Mode (the story mode), Claus and Hinawa are literally the final two spirits you're forced to fight before fighting the final boss, both guarding each end of the paths you can take to get to the end as the very last spirit of their respective routes, you're forced to fight at least one of them before the end, which I thought was a cool way to highlight them in Ultimate itself.
Last thing, but the reason a lot of Mother 3's music likely didn't make it into Brawl was explained really well in the "The Legal Reasons Why Mother 3 Will Never Be Localized" video by Moon Channel. Long story short, a lot of M3's OST takes intentional inspiration from a lot of copyrighted songs in the music industry, and when Nintendo tested the waters with posting Mother 3+'s OST on iTunes internationally, it got taken down shortly after in every country that wasn't Japan due to the stricter music copyright. Even stuff like Natural Killer Cyborg references Michael Jackson's Beat It song, which would get copyright striked and get Nintendo a lawsuit, hence why they unfortunately couldn't put it in Brawl or any other Smash game.
In Brawl he seems to act like how he does pre-time skip in Mother 3, which doesn't really make sense with him having all his PSI abilities but whatever.
One of the changes I really liked in Ultimate is Ness and Lucas having their PSI moves getting the sprite effects over their moves like PK Fire.
They didn't even use the post-timeskip sprite for his Spirit
It’s kind of funny that nana got mentioned
I think subspace emissary’s inclusion is unfinished, sakurai stated he was supposed to be cowardly then grow stronger, but this doesn’t make much since when his depiction everywhere else in the game also depicts him as cowardly. He does save him and the pokemon trainer at one point, but not much else happens in the way of becoming less cowardly. He seems really unfinished, which is ironic considering he was supposed to replace Ness
I think we got enough in the story mode to show his growth, the main thing showing him as a coward is how he runs from Wario, which is paid off when he meets him again and faces him without fear, then after he's never shown as scared again and as you said he saves Pokemon trainer from Galeom
It's just called the "New Year's Eve" in the JP version btw.
I know I'm 6 months late but here is another little detail, when Lucas uses PK Starstorm in Ultimate you can see the Masked Man's background from his final fight in Mother 3.
I have a theory as to why Lucas acted the way he did in Subspace (in-universe): Likely, he heard of the disasters that were happening and felt like he should've done more to help, and that even after having gone on his own adventure, he's still a crybaby and/or wimp (their words, not mine). When the King P statue shows up, Lucas has a brief moment of PTSD, probably being horrified at the possibility of Porky somehow escaping the Absolutely Safe Capsule. It wasn't until Ness showed up that he was reminded of his inner courage, and finally decided to rise up again. That's just my two cents on the matter.
Porky isn't even in the perfectly safe capsule in Brawl. And if the game took place after Mother 3, Lucas' behavior would make no sense in general.
I would wager that Ultimate is probably going to be the last smash game. As unfortunate as that sounds, I doubt they’re going to make another. Sakurai’s got a lot of work done on the series and - I think even he agrees that - he needs a break. The fact that it brought back every previous character, that it’s arguably the most competitively balanced of all the games, that it finally has another story mode, and that it had the most crazy DLC characters gives it a sense of finality. In my eyes, Ultimate is Sakurai’s swansong and I believe - whether it be more Kirby or some new series - he’ll keep making games. Just not these ones!
It'd probably be Sakurai's last Smash game, but not the last one in general
@@captainmega6310that’s likely true. The dude deserves a break.
Groovy video.
You played one of my favorite songs in Super Smash Bros brawl
The question, what do you think of Lucas' Project M moveset, since he was completely remade from the ground up to be more"viable"