I am 60. Grew up in Co Limerick listening to my grandparents whit stories about the civil war and and the English. Growing up every night ón TV and shooting. 2020 can we do something to live together in peace
It's wasn't religion that divided the people. It was politics and aspirations. The religion was just a handy method of identifying each other and 'marking their cards'.
Well, if you ignore history and only look at the conflict in the eyes of a person from 2020 AD... then what you say makes sense... but the clue here is that the roots of the conflict are centuries old... and a few centuries back your religion was your politics and loyalty... considering the Britisg monarch ruled and justified his rule through the Protestant Church of England... and Catholics refused the religion that the monarch was head of... instead keeping Catholicism, and allegance to a Pope who excimmunicates the British Monarch... you can see that past British rulers would regard Catholics as fifth columnists, loyal to a hostile foreign power... potential colluders to France and catholic Spain, Irish Catholics who, in their eyes, would need to be removed from power and replaced by loyal(ist) Scottish and English settlers... hence a long period of Irish Catholic opression and all of Ireland ruled by a loyal British Protestant elite. Those are some of the ingredients why this conflict covers religious identity, politics and later on nationalism from 19th century onwards. The conflict is so old, it pre-dates 19th century ethno-nationalism... this explains the labeling, identity and underlying community values in the conflict, which have survived upto today and can only be explained and made sense of with a grasp of Irish social and political history. You could say that centuries ago, your religion was your identity, statement of political loyalty, part of your ethnic/tribal identity... all mixed in one. So not being protestant under a protestant British ruler... would today be the equivelant if rejecting the concept of democracy and showing disbelief in it. Why do I conpare the two? Because religious ideology was used to justify amd underpin monarchical rule in the past... and the concept and idiology is used to underpin and justify the rule of the elite in most countries today... at least superficially... and there is always danger in undermining the ideology of those who rule over you... wether it be religiously or otherwise...
I was in Derry when the troops moved in, people were crying in the street with relief. If I remember right it all started with one man one vote with John Hume because there was always more Protestants in a ward than catholics.when I applied for a job when I was there because of my English accent future employers couldn’t see me quick enough until they saw my address then they didn’t want to know. I think religion did have a part to play in the troubles
Your address was something which could mark you out as either Catholic or Protestant. It is really pathetic. Something which could not happen anywhere else in the UK>
Well, in the 20 century your religious background, in Ulster, was/is a fairly reliable marker of whether you were/are nationalist/republican or unionist/loyalist. So it's kind of an ethno-political religious conflict, I guess... uncluding for those not actively practicing a religion.
Yes, this sort of short film should have been shown to young British soldiers before they had to patrol the streets of Derry; as I did from end 82 to end 84, I would have had some idea of what it was all about and why the hell I was there.
@@chriswilde7246 As it turned out the british army were sent to the north of Ireland to subjugate the Irish Catholic people on behalf of a bigoted unionist government which was an absolute disgrace and ultimately disastrous.
I have never been to Derry. I`v been to Belfast more times than I can count and if the people are anything like them,then I know I would Love it. It`s on my list.
@@johnking5174 but your not, the city is a stain on the good conduct on the rest of the province, infact if the whole area was a person, belfast and londonderry/derry would be cancers that should be cut away, we probably would have our own space programme now if the trouble didnt spill out from these hives of hatred, you build walls to segragate each other while the rest of the country just gets on with it, i cant build a wall if my next door neighbour is a ira or lvf commander, i just suck it up, 2 cities thats been took by the hand like wains for centuries
Absolutely reeks of the attitudes of an earlier time when English pundits were completely blind to the complex political realities of Northern Ireland. It was easier to shelter behind the simplistic colonial view that the natives on both sides were in thrall to the unreconstructed enmities of religious intolerance.
It's certainly propagandistic and a bit patronising but there is a huge element of truth in it. By 1970 the problems had been identified and progress was being made by some very decent people who recognised what needed to be done. The problem was it was much too late, the toothpaste was out of the tube, they waited until the violence had broken out before they addressed the underlying demands that the moderates had been pleading about for years and largely been ignored and dismissed. By the time these reforms started the Army was on the streets and the young rioters felt free to take them on. If the government had only done this 20, 15, heck even 10 years earlier, the violence would never have erupted, once it did there was no going back.
I hope that both sides learn and get along with each other rather than be sectarian and bigoted. I'd like to visit Derry/Londonderry City one day and see what it's really like.
James Murray stroke city as it was called by the late Gerry Anderson. I and my then girlfriend visited it and the people were very friendly but it was quite depressed and I’d think money would be tight. But lovely people.
The army was first deployed in 1969. This film was made in 1970. The first soldier to die in Derry was Lance Corporal William Jolliffe RMP (source: Derry Journal) on March 1st 1971.
There is no such place as Londonderry. Doire is Doire is Doire - angelaized as Derry. Londonderry is a colonial fiction invented by the London Corporation.
Michael Mc Laughlin I was born there and I think you will find it’s name is Londonderry...... if your going to make statements make sure they are at least factual.....not saying you like it or agree with it that’s your business, but the city is known as Londonderry.......FACT
@@alanmarchini3760 So you were 'born there'? I was born in Derry, too. Incidentally, your name doesn't sound like an Ulster name. Are you quite sure you were 'born there'.?
Michael Mc Laughlin oh I might be late fifties but I have not lost my wits altogether lol, born 1962 in a wee Street of Bond Street in the Waterside area of Londonderry, left home to join up at 16 yrs, two up two down and outside toilet...... house is still there and also my catholic neighbours are still living beside my family home, best people in the world they are. My brother still lives there with his family has his own business, and your right the name is originally Italian, my great grandfather was Italian, he along with my grandfather, and father all born and bred in the West Bank in the Fountain Estate, while my mother hailed from Rosemount and all her family. So don’t think you can doubt my credibility, but you may not agree with it but I can live with that 😀😀🇬🇧🇬🇧
Michael Mc Laughlin Michael excuse me for bothering you but you questioned my Londonderry birth right I gave you an answer you have not acknowledged it .... can I ask if you accept my answer as truthful?? 🇬🇧🇬🇧
You say prods..but weren’t they the loyal citizens of the Nation who are really under attack from an insurgency that wouldn’t accept the Queen as their monarch. Because their king is the Pope, that’s where their allegiance lies first and foremost.
@@edcarson3113 What caused that insurgency? Perhaps the societal disadvantages experienced by the nationalists, and preferential treatment bestowed on the unionists by the British government previous to the IRA resurgence which only occurred due to further British oppression.
it wasn’t religion that forced the people apart, it was political reasons. republicans and nationalists were what drove people apart. The British troops came to Ireland to help the catholic’s, but eventually turned on them. So, the catholic’s decided to form the IRA to fight back at the British.
I am 60. Grew up in Co Limerick listening to my grandparents whit stories about the civil war and and the English. Growing up every night ón TV and shooting. 2020 can we do something to live together in peace
"Peace?!" All thing's point to an armed conflict in the UK... And an even wider one here on the Mainland.
It's wasn't religion that divided the people. It was politics and aspirations. The religion was just a handy method of identifying each other and 'marking their cards'.
Well said
It WAS religion that divided the people.
Well, if you ignore history and only look at the conflict in the eyes of a person from 2020 AD... then what you say makes sense... but the clue here is that the roots of the conflict are centuries old... and a few centuries back your religion was your politics and loyalty... considering the Britisg monarch ruled and justified his rule through the Protestant Church of England... and Catholics refused the religion that the monarch was head of... instead keeping Catholicism, and allegance to a Pope who excimmunicates the British Monarch... you can see that past British rulers would regard Catholics as fifth columnists, loyal to a hostile foreign power... potential colluders to France and catholic Spain, Irish Catholics who, in their eyes, would need to be removed from power and replaced by loyal(ist) Scottish and English settlers... hence a long period of Irish Catholic opression and all of Ireland ruled by a loyal British Protestant elite. Those are some of the ingredients why this conflict covers religious identity, politics and later on nationalism from 19th century onwards.
The conflict is so old, it pre-dates 19th century ethno-nationalism... this explains the labeling, identity and underlying community values in the conflict, which have survived upto today and can only be explained and made sense of with a grasp of Irish social and political history.
You could say that centuries ago, your religion was your identity, statement of political loyalty, part of your ethnic/tribal identity... all mixed in one. So not being protestant under a protestant British ruler... would today be the equivelant if rejecting the concept of democracy and showing disbelief in it. Why do I conpare the two? Because religious ideology was used to justify amd underpin monarchical rule in the past... and the concept and idiology is used to underpin and justify the rule of the elite in most countries today... at least superficially... and there is always danger in undermining the ideology of those who rule over you... wether it be religiously or otherwise...
@@LMatters1 It was the ruling elite and their adopted ideologies, religious or otherwise, that divided people
@@clavichord Correct,the powers in place at the time made sure of it.
Love these old vids and docs, Lee, thanks for uploading them!
I was in Derry when the troops moved in, people were crying in the street with relief. If I remember right it all started with one man one vote with John Hume because there was always more Protestants in a ward than catholics.when I applied for a job when I was there because of my English accent future employers couldn’t see me quick enough until they saw my address then they didn’t want to know. I think religion did have a part to play in the troubles
Your address was something which could mark you out as either Catholic or Protestant. It is really pathetic. Something which could not happen anywhere else in the UK>
@@johnking5174: It happens everyday in GB,north v south?
It doesn’t happen in the rUK yet. Although it will start to. People would prefer to employ non Muslims etc..
Well, in the 20 century your religious background, in Ulster, was/is a fairly reliable marker of whether you were/are nationalist/republican or unionist/loyalist. So it's kind of an ethno-political religious conflict, I guess... uncluding for those not actively practicing a religion.
It happened in the Free State too.
As an Irish American... you have to remember Irish people were not allowed to own homes in Ireland, they had to rent from English land owners.
In the North.
3.40 - That's the Top o' the Hill and at 7.55 that's a young Bertie Kennedy, Turning Instructor at Maydown GTC.
That worked out well!
Great archive, thanks for posting.
Yes, this sort of short film should have been shown to young British soldiers before they had to patrol the streets of Derry; as I did from end 82 to end 84, I would have had some idea of what it was all about and why the hell I was there.
@@chriswilde7246 As it turned out the british army were sent to the north of Ireland to subjugate the Irish Catholic people on behalf of a bigoted unionist government which was an absolute disgrace and ultimately disastrous.
The film is obviously very of it's time, but still interesting to watch. Thanks for posting. 👍
I have never been to Derry. I`v been to Belfast more times than I can count and if the people are anything like them,then I know I would Love it. It`s on my list.
Most Derry people are warm and welcoming.
@@johnking5174 I can well believe that John. I must pay a visit, i`m from Liverpool.
John King I’d agree about the people but that’s really the same over ni.
@@johnking5174 but your not, the city is a stain on the good conduct on the rest of the province, infact if the whole area was a person, belfast and londonderry/derry would be cancers that should be cut away, we probably would have our own space programme now if the trouble didnt spill out from these hives of hatred, you build walls to segragate each other while the rest of the country just gets on with it, i cant build a wall if my next door neighbour is a ira or lvf commander, i just suck it up, 2 cities thats been took by the hand like wains for centuries
Absolutely reeks of the attitudes of an earlier time when English pundits were completely blind to the complex political realities of Northern Ireland. It was easier to shelter behind the simplistic colonial view that the natives on both sides were in thrall to the unreconstructed enmities of religious intolerance.
Absolutely reeks of common sense, more like.
Excellent comment Donal, almost laughable listening to the old school tie commentary.
Oh the optimism!
It's certainly propagandistic and a bit patronising but there is a huge element of truth in it. By 1970 the problems had been identified and progress was being made by some very decent people who recognised what needed to be done. The problem was it was much too late, the toothpaste was out of the tube, they waited until the violence had broken out before they addressed the underlying demands that the moderates had been pleading about for years and largely been ignored and dismissed. By the time these reforms started the Army was on the streets and the young rioters felt free to take them on. If the government had only done this 20, 15, heck even 10 years earlier, the violence would never have erupted, once it did there was no going back.
Oh, how true. I grew up in Derry. In fact I'm still here.
18:48 - Says it all by the need to deny it.
I know living in slum housing was terrible, but the row houses look so much better than the modern shit they built.
Really interesting seeing old shots of Derry like this Lee. I just put up my own video focusing on Derry's Murals, take a look when you get a chance.
I shall indeed, Naked Ireland!
Great stuff Lee, appreciate your support.
I grew up across the border and it might as well been a thousand miles. A disgrace what the people went through.
They don't make propaganda like they used to! Painfully patronising and colonial. Thanks for uploading.
Not at all. Just factual.
@@Puppy-ew4be Well, factually, then, you've been brainwashed.
spooky.
I hope that both sides learn and get along with each other rather than be sectarian and bigoted. I'd like to visit Derry/Londonderry City one day and see what it's really like.
James Murray stroke city as it was called by the late Gerry Anderson. I and my then girlfriend visited it and the people were very friendly but it was quite depressed and I’d think money would be tight. But lovely people.
@@jonathanmcaleece9834 I've got my eye on you
Raleighburner15 Hynes shitting myself.
@@jonathanmcaleece9834 I'd meet you in a second but your shitting yourself
Raleighburner15 Hynes sure you would
11:42: cf. China Mieville, The City and the City.
This must be just before troops were deployed.
Then the Shit really hit the fan. I grew up during the worst of it.
The army was first deployed in 1969. This film was made in 1970. The first soldier to die in Derry was Lance Corporal William Jolliffe RMP (source: Derry Journal) on March 1st 1971.
@@phelimscallon1610 I seriously doubt this film was made in 1970, as I can't see a single soldier.
@@Puppy-ew4be There's an army land rover (open topped!!) parked up @ 11:40 and a soldier crossing the street in the crowd @ 11:43.
That song at the start reminds me off, O’danny boy 👦 the pipes the pipes are calling, from glen to glen, and down the mountain side.
Maybe that's because it is Danny boy ! 🙈
@@albertclock8396 I knew that I was just testing you.😃
@@jaywalkercrew4446 naw ye weren't
@@albertclock8396 you’ll never know the real truth.
The whole video in 4 words 😤PENNYWISE MIGHT BE REAL😮
Derry!
I wonder how many of those new manufactured jobs Catholics we're able to secure
Seems to me the real distinction was politics, Nationalist vs Unionist rather than religion
10:00 Starved to death, plague.... Still, NO SURRENDER! 1689/90
And a tariff border in the "Irish" Sea, proving once and for all, Derry is in Ireland, not the UK. Those tariffs are objective proof.
Silly talking twat
There is no such place as Londonderry. Doire is Doire is Doire - angelaized as Derry. Londonderry is a colonial fiction invented by the London Corporation.
Michael Mc Laughlin I was born there and I think you will find it’s name is Londonderry...... if your going to make statements make sure they are at least factual.....not saying you like it or agree with it that’s your business, but the city is known as Londonderry.......FACT
@@alanmarchini3760 So you were 'born there'? I was born in Derry, too. Incidentally, your name doesn't sound like an Ulster name. Are you quite sure you were 'born there'.?
Michael Mc Laughlin oh I might be late fifties but I have not lost my wits altogether lol, born 1962 in a wee Street of Bond Street in the Waterside area of Londonderry, left home to join up at 16 yrs, two up two down and outside toilet...... house is still there and also my catholic neighbours are still living beside my family home, best people in the world they are.
My brother still lives there with his family has his own business, and your right the name is originally Italian, my great grandfather was Italian, he along with my grandfather, and father all born and bred in the West Bank in the Fountain Estate, while my mother hailed from Rosemount and all her family.
So don’t think you can doubt my credibility, but you may not agree with it but I can live with that 😀😀🇬🇧🇬🇧
Michael Mc Laughlin Michael excuse me for bothering you but you questioned my Londonderry birth right I gave you an answer you have not acknowledged it .... can I ask if you accept my answer as truthful?? 🇬🇧🇬🇧
@@alanmarchini3760 It's because he doesn't like your answer, it doesn't fit in his narrative
Lol
And then the English went and screwed it up and cowed down to the prods ohh the fools the fools the fools
You say prods..but weren’t they the loyal citizens of the Nation who are really under attack from an insurgency that wouldn’t accept the Queen as their monarch. Because their king is the Pope, that’s where their allegiance lies first and foremost.
@@edcarson3113 What caused that insurgency? Perhaps the societal disadvantages experienced by the nationalists, and preferential treatment bestowed on the unionists by the British government previous to the IRA resurgence which only occurred due to further British oppression.
@@edcarson3113 Why would the Irish people accept any monarchy let alone an inbred anglo germanic one???
Fucking lmao @ this propaganda video. I'm not even Irish, I just take an interest in the history of the situation - this video is shameless. Hahahaha.
it wasn’t religion that forced the people apart, it was political reasons. republicans and nationalists were what drove people apart. The British troops came to Ireland to help the catholic’s, but eventually turned on them. So, the catholic’s decided to form the IRA to fight back at the British.
Bullshit, the IRA turned on the troops, they saw it as their chance.
Bullshite is right
IRA formed 70 years before that
JEEE- ZUS - history isn't your strong subject, then!
What in the hell are you talking about....
Derry. (Londonderry) .pure robbery.Derry all day everyday.Derry - Ireland.
Half the white population in the UK are of Irish decent honestly the Irish are where the Brits went anyway.
Unabashed British propaganda. Lmao.
Not really