I've spent 3/4 of my life looking for an opportunity to use the line, "What you want is irrelevant; what you've chosen is at hand." I love Spock's barely-contained rage in that scene.
Yes, Spock definitely had a slight change in character beginning in V tff when he says, “Damn you sir you will try” and “Not in front of the Klingons”. Ending tuc with, “If I were human I think my response would be go to Hell. If I were human...”
Interesting. For me it's the one I never got into, even after finishing 5 (which held me as much for how bonkers it was). I'm pretty sure I didn't finish it the first time I went through the movies and even today I have trouble remembering it. Like I remember the purple blood and the shape shifter, and that it was the fall of the USSR in space, but not the actual plot.
@@ZipplyZane Maybe because Star Trek VI was heavy on allegory but light on science fiction. We did get some ship vs ship knock down and drag out action but not until nearly the end. Star Trek VI is my second favorite after Star Trek II but I can understand why some people might not care for it.
The dinner scene with the Klingons aboard the Enterprise-A was probably best described by Khan Noonien Singh, played by the late Ricardo Montalbán, that he said to Captain Kirk in the TOS episode titled *Space Seed* _It has been said that social occasions are only warfare concealed._
I really like Star Trek VI. It shows that while the future is a utopia and people are just all around better; the utopia needs continuous effort and maintenance and that the people are still at their core the same beings we are today. It shows that the Federation and its ideals aren't just a fantasy but can survive taking a hit and can stand strong even in the face of adversity. From without and within. The example of Kirk having such hatred and even racism against Klingons does less so show him as an imperfect hero and more as an example to us today how we can become better ourselves. This movie links our current present with the utopian future of Star Trek better then anything else.
There was so much objection to racist attitudes being on display here, but many seem to forget that even in the original TV series, humans were shown to carry with them racist elements, even in the 23rd century. Balance of Terror comes to mind as Spock is suddenly the object of scorn and suspicion by a crewman after it is revealed that the hated Romulan enemies look exactly like Vulcans.
Regarding your comment about how utopia requires constant work and vigilance, spot on. What I dislike about Roddenberry's approach to a utopian future is his lazy approach to it: They just figure it out.... and no maintenance required, it always works perfectly.
I understand that some fans really hate the "Let them die!" bit but for me its one of the more memorable kirk moments, it shows how human he was and how much his son's murder still hurt him and while the movie clearly pushed that we need to move on from past hatreds to build a better future it makes no attempt overly simplify Kirk's long lasting grudge, it a natural human thing to hurt over such a tragedy, and to the writer's credit they make damn sure that the audience remembers Kirk's feeling were legitimate given his life, and that made his realization that he needed to let go and accept the change of history all the more natural by the end. Kirk's outburst, Spock's clearly shocked expression at it and Kirk taking a breath and bringing it back in was such a good moment in that scene, said so much with just facial expressions.
@@ELEKTROSKANSEN There are some trek fans out there that don't like flawed protagonists, seem to think its not real trek or something odd like that. Thankfully not a majority because bits like this are some of the best trek IMO.
Shatner shouldn’t have been disappointed by the cutting of his line “I didn’t mean that” after his “let them die” outburst. The beat after Spock’s reaction was good enough. It’s a tiny moment but you can see Kirk’s own disappointment with the fact that he let himself say something so awful. Really well acted.
The Undiscovered Country always felt like a very grounded and sober movie to me, especially when compared to Four and Five. It is not a boring movie by any description but it needs a certain eye for politics and intrigue to see the benefits in the movie as it can feel slower than the previous movies.
@@Idazmi7 Precisely! The only other way it's better for me is when they're "discovering new life forms and new worlds", not running around punching bad guys like the Jar Jar Abrahms Trek.
Never noticed this before, but in the last breakaway shot with the crew, the navigator's seat (Sulu's) is intentionally empty, symbolically showing that he is still part of the Enterprise family.
I could be wrong, but I believe the line Nichelle refused to say was "guess who's coming to dinner." Which is a direct reference to the film which features a caucasian woman bringing home her African- American boyfriend to meet her parents. In that context, I can't really blame her for refusing to say that line.
A fun thing to note is that when you see the Enterprise and Qo'Nos 1 traveling side by side it sort of draws in a comparison as we can assume that Qo'Nos 1 is a D7 possibly the K't'inga refit and the Enterprise as we know is a Constitution Class Refit, both of these classes served on the front line in their respective fronts the classes themselves were mighty symbols of their governments and it embodies the sheer nature of the peace talks where the militaries of both powers now had to play ball with one another ultimately burying the hatchet which had seen the deaths of countless on both sides.
My family's TUC vhs was my only exposure to the TOS crew (born in 92) and yet this was the piece of Star Trek I adored and always went back to (second was our recording of Year of Hell). There's just something magical about this film that captivates both longtime fans and 5 year old girls. I still get goosebumps at "and let LOOSE the dogs of war!"
TOS Cast 'likely' *knew* TUC would be their last and final hurrah (together). I believe their ACTING - - and the overall effort is commensurate w/ that fact. Hell; even Bill Shatner POPS (off the screen), when he tells Spock, "LET them die . . . (!)" Even as 'a Child watching said scene' one thinks to themselves, "WHOA: That wuz DAAAARK." Smart Acting all around. And a worthy Curtain Call (for TOS). \m/
Having Saavik instead of Valeris would have been so much better. I remember in the book for the search for Spock, She and David had a thing going. It would make sense that she'd be one of the ones against the peace being that she watched her lover get murdered at the hands of the klingons.
These days I tend to view WOK, SFS, and TVH as the central cinematic Trek saga and in an odd way, TUC as the epilogue. You certainly can see the story of the original series crew in IV as a fitting conclusion, having gone from being mature officers among young cadets, to Federation outlaws, to heroes finally return to the place they belong. But there is something to be said for VI as the post script to that tale, being of a bit of bookend to II's dynamic of the "old among the new" in Wrath of Khan to The Undiscovered Country where Kirk and company now effectively do pass the torch to the next generation and/or embrace their roles beyond the Enterprise. I guess for me, the Voyage Home is the conclusion for the characters where as Undiscovered Country is the real conclusion to TOS itself, allowing that era, its central themes, and its performers to one final bow to the audience.
Undiscovered country is my favorite film in the series; ambitious, smart, adventurous & fun and this same time! That's how you do political allegory; not beat people over the head with moral and demonise your political opponents but showing tragic side of your antagonists; that they have rational reasons to oppose change - after all even Kirk lost his son to Klingons - , that they hate their enemies not because of some stupid prejudice and they are to stuck in the past to change. After all like you said even in the 80's end of cold war was unthinkable
"It could be argued that the events to come would have more of an emotional impact if it was Saavik. However this can be forgiven because... Valeris is hot." There, put that back in for ya.
@@johnspencer3994 I don't mind if Chuck wants to do more condensed reviews that are a bit more serious. These even have some observations that the others don't, and I appreciate that. And the counterpart reviews are still available, you know. So I consider these bonuses.
My head canon for the same actor playing admiral cartwright and Joseph Sisko was that Admiral cartwright was indeed an ancestor to the Siskos which is why Mr. Sisko was upset that Benjamin became a starfleet officer. He may have been worried that the dishonorable actions of Admiral cartwright would be held against his son.
Chuck: "Viewing history says much more about yourself than the past in many cases, because it talks about the lense which you use to view the past. When we talk about learning lessons from the past, oftentimes we talk about how we can use the past to justify lessons we want to share today."
Of all the Trek films featuring the original crew, this is my favorite. It was the end of a movie franchise era that would not be equaled to this day. As a kid who watched the original television series in the 60's, it was a sad ending knowing the full compliment of characters were sailing off into the sun never to be assembled again.
An excellent review of one of the best Star Trek movies. My recollection of the American attitude toward Gorbachev was one of ambivalence; he was a comedy but also represented a possible end of the Cold War, a celebrity we kind of have trusted and also didn’t. I summed him up this way: “Center Square on Hollywood squares.”
This is probably my favorite ending to a franchise ever. They nailed it. TNG All Good Things too, but that wasn't the end to their story. Credit to Meyer for using NCC-2000 as the "hot tag" and taking a "big bump" (wrestling terms) in the final battle.
What do you mean "All Good Things" wasn't the end of their story? You sound like you live in a universe where someone thrashed the series by making 4 incredibly dumb movies that stand against everything the show was about, and a miserable tv show about Picard being old and forgetting what his character was like. What a terrible universe to live in!
@@ELEKTROSKANSEN they were onto something with First Contact even though I think that was not that great of a movie. Picard Season 3 was good through the first five episodes until it became Fan Service.
I regret I have but one like to give for such a good review. This review was epic, not only of the movie itself, but of the time it was made in and the hidden meanings lost to those who would come later. Very well done sir.
I think what may have been Nimoy’s most subtle but amazing moment as Spock, was the confrontation with Valeris. We see Spock’s humanity in that moment in subtle yet powerful emotions.
"Don't wait for the translation!" Is an actual historical quote. It happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis when the US prosecutor at the UN was questioning the Russian representative about pictures showing missiles set up in Cuba. :)
One interesting thing I just picked up in this review, after your note on the colour purple is how Chang is coloured in green for the final battle. A complementary colour to purple but also one of calming and relaxed, this is what Chang feels in his element. Much like Kirk being so used to hating Klingons, this is Chang feeling at ease because this what he wants, to be at war. The final stepping stone to the end of this history is be in a familiar space one last time.
oh, you're one of those types, huh? I'm 54, been a fan since I was a kid, and am enjoying the hell out of Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. Oh well, at least you whiners have your Orville safe space, right?
@@johnspencer3994 you can't spell irony without (at least some of) IDIC Thanks for proving my point the first time, and thanks once again for doubling down and showing it wasn't a fluke. Nothing says "I'm the REAL Trek fan" like a good ageist joke. Want to know anything about my ethnicity, maybe give you some more ammo?
What an awesome overview of my favorite Star Trek movie. Your last words sum up my feelings about this movie "Let's have fun one more time before we say goodbye." This was the last time we saw the whole gang together in live action, and they went out with a bang.
I find myself thinking about how current this film is to the present. “If there is to be a brave new world, you and I are going to have the hardest time living in it.”
I would say that, if Star Trek II made Trek "classic drama", and IV made it "mainstream entertainment", then VI wasn't just "having fun one more time", it made Trek into the "high art" that it always aspired to be. It was a thoughtful, introspective story about current events, but also about the show's own history and legacy. It looks back on its own history and deconstructs itself a little bit, but avoids all the annoying references, call-backs, and fan service that oversaturates so many more modern movies.
Hands down my favorite movie. As relevant back then as it was today and probably will be in the future. Ended up in a stupid argument about this movie in Star Trek Online a few days ago where this one person insisted that this movie was nothing more than a murder mystery and nothing else. It was... frustrating.
Procedurals are a favourite framing device for all kinds of SF stories because they allow for easy world building and plot advancement: our protagonists are trying to figure out a mystery, so they have to go to different places, talk with all sorts of people, and look for clues. And, it's a handy formula that audiences who aren't very familiar with SF genre tropes can follow along with while the SF elements are explained to them. It might be an overused tool sometimes, but it is a very handy one.
A strange opinion for sure, especially since many old sci-fi writers were mystery writers on the side, and many exceptional works of sci-fi such as 1953's The Demolished Man were in large part murder mysteries, and Star Trek 6's murder mystery elements seem to have been mostly borrowed from the classic Star Trek episode "Court Martial."
I really struggle to decide between Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country. Apparently Gene Roddenberry really objected to some of the aspects of the film where characters show prejudice but honestly I think it has excellent teaching value as an examination of the human condition. I think the idea of the wall coming down in space is brilliant. Characters were well used. From Kirks prejudice to Spock going full Sherlock Holmes trying to solve the mystery. The conspiracy being like you say - enemies collaborating. To Sulu staying loyal to his former crew mates. The ending even after seeing it dozens of times since I was 7 still brings strong emotions 25 years later as Sulu and Kirk bid farewell to each other and Excelsior flys off into the distance. An absolutely brilliant send off.
With all due respect to Gene Roddenberry, he was wrong in his opinion of this film. He had full control of the TV series, and in Balance of Terror, he showed a human crewman who was prejudiced against Spock based solely on the fact that he looks like a Romulan. Gene already showcased that humans were still flawed in the 23rd century. As he grew older, he seemed to want the characters to be too perfect, which was a problem in the first two seasons of Star Trek The Next Generation. You can't write anything interesting if you make your characters too perfect and evolved. As much as I hate to say it, Star Trek got better in the 1980s and 1990s as Gene had less and less control. It is his vision, but as time went on, I think he became too "old and inflexible as to outlive his usefulness", so to speak. I sound like I am hating on Gene, but really I am not. Just like any of us, though, we change as we get older and we stubborn up over things. This is why Gene lost influence in Star Trek, and even in Star Trek TNG after season 1.
Wonderful analysis, I truly enjoyed it! It made me really want to watch ST:VI again to notice the subtleties you bring up about the motivations behind how the conspirators act before the mystery is revealed. I've always just watched the film on a pure "popcorn"-level, but like all truly good works of fiction, there's so much going on behind the scenes that elevates it. Such a good send off to the original crew! Thanks again for your video!
I was at a convention in the before times and I bought a Star Trek VI poster because it was my favorite Trek Movie. I was about to move so I didn't hang it up, and I moved another time before I found it again like 3 years later. It now sits next to a poster for Star Wars in my room to remind me of my favorite parts of both series.
It makes sense to have the Enterprise and Kirk be the olive branch but under supervision of a full ambassador like Sarek. There was no logical reason to have go it alone. They could see the difficulty Kirk would have by what he said in the meeting.
I'm currently reading the Star Trek novel "Shadows On The Sun" by Michael Jan Friedman. It's set right after the events of Star Trek 6 and is a great story for anyone a fan of the character Dr McCoy 😀
Excellent film and I appreciate this analysis. As for the USSR, there is historical information from when the Russian archives were still open . Some of the high party members (most notably Yuri Andropov), pretty much mused that the country would not last much longer at the rate they were going; and that was all the way back in 1980. The Afghanistan War, Chernobyl and Gorbachev's reforms pretty much put the exclamation point on a system that had been doing poorly since the latter years of Brezhnev. Also, if you ever have the pleasure (or lack thereof lol) of watching ST V and ST VI back to back, the rise in quality is astonishing. One film is an absolute trainwreck and the other film is quite well made.
A lot of the themes of this film are still very relevant today (sadly for the worse in most cases). “If there is to be a brave new world our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it”.
This is really in depth which makes me appreciate Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country even more. Could be among my top 3 favorite Star trek film along with Star Trek II The Wrath of Kahn and Star Trek IV The Journey Home
Shatner understands Kirk a LOT better than Stewart understands Picard. And he knows the franchise (and what makes it work) better than the writers of today. Shatner's Trek novels are the only ones I can really stand to read.
@@KamenRiderGumo The writers of today still know Star Trek. It’s the fans who have forgotten that it always takes a few seasons before Star Trek shows get good.
it's like a videogame. some gamers just don't understand that a terrible game can still be good after 50 hours... I mean come on! you don't want to pay for a game that isn't good for 50 hours? and you call yourself a fan???
@@KamenRiderGumo Shatner’s novels aren’t really his. His name is there, sure, but it’s the Reeves-Stevens couple that makes them work. I’m certain that Shatner’s main contribution was the continuous Kirk-As-Superhero narrative that they all contain.
Excellent breakdown analysis of The Undiscovered Country ! I agree with everything the narrator stated. After The Voyage Home which in my opinion, the "Voyage Home" movie sequel was a nice hokey family fun heart warming "save the whales" "environmental save the planet" meme movie story script for the audience enjoyment, but as a Star Trek mission script, it was terrible, and after The Final Frontier disaster, "The Undiscovered Country" of the Star Trek Enterprise crew, Star Trek returned back to it's core mission which is what it's supposed to be about, about facing reality truth about your enemies, as well as about your perceived friends.
Gorbachev says in his _The New Russia_ that he attempted to democratize the SU, and preserve it thereby. He admits to his personal reason for doing so - he did not want to splinter it and break up the ties between the republics and hence break the personal ties that resulted from this - the good side of an empire, as it were. The personal reason was new to me - as a teenager during the events I do not remember it ever being mentioned that his wife was Ukrainian. As for the movie, I think it is still an excellent allegory, but I have found that those who do not remember the allegory's target find it somewhat hard to understand. The trope about the SU lasting into the 24th century (or the future in general) was in science fiction of all kinds - _2010_, _Fantastic Voyage_, etc. but often are very unclear as to what sort of political arrangement is at work beyond the (usual) expectation that the US also exists and is ideologically different - the writers of TNG deliberately, I think, subverting that.
"... nor a history teacher when you get down to it.... but what can you do when history presents two radically different interpretations of the same event?" It's okay, the solution is simple. Just go bother Blue and listen to him rave about Florence for a few hours. He'll help you get a grip on whatever history you want to know, likely helping you chase sources down :)
This was the first Trek movie I saw in a theater. A friend's dad took us on opening day. (I later realized it was also my first date. I was pretty clueless as a preteen. Sorry, Christy.)
The line where spock says to Valeris how logic is only the beginning of wisdom is powerful when you consider that the guy has come back from the dead; its as if if he has taken a quantum leap beyond the vulcan he was before. Spock has transcended even Surak in his level of knowledge.
I think the decommissioning at the end was just referring to the sr staff not the ship. In the beginning its apparent in his Kirk’s log entry the ship will be in the care of another crew and Captain. Then canon says the ship was decommissioned soon after.
Sulu had a edited line in the shuttle run to Enterprise in twol. By end of the movie and test screenings showed how ppl loved twok and they edited out Sulu talking about taking command pf Excelsior in trek II twok
This is my favorite Trek movie, but the one thing that always bugs me is Spock's illogical conclusion that the gravity boots must be on the Enterprise. The assassins could've just as easily beamed back to the BoP, with another accomplice falsifying the Enterprise's records.
Great review, but you missed out mentioning Colonel Worf, played by Micheal Dorn, who was playing his grandfather, it's also a bridge to the next generation Also, the moment when I was watching this film, I choked...and then cheered
I consider it a great wasted opportunity for Star Trek to have made two prequel series since Voyager when the opportunity to look at how Star Fleet deals with the transition from wartime readiness to a return to peacetime exploration has been waiting to be told ever since The Undiscovered Country. Considering how the real-life examples of the US Navy and allied forces have dealt with the end of the Cold War should have made writing the general themes of the series fairly straight forward. The time between Star Trek 6 and TNG is supposed to be a 'golden age' for Star Fleet, but we've never seen it. I also just really want a series set on an Excelsior class boat, with crew in the classic 'monster maroons'.
Too risky for the bean counters. ST may have started as borderline counterculture, but it evolved into a prime cash cow. Like Disney with Marvel, CBS wants nothing but guarunteed success from their IP investment. The irony is that ST was always great *because* it told the risky stories, so with that removed all of the new entries into the franchise have sucked.
This movie must have been Takei's dream come true. Sulu gets to be captain and Takei never had to be on the same set as Kirk aside from that one scene at the peace conference.
I met George Takei at my first convention. He's always maintained that the movie should be titled Star Trek VI: The Captain Duly Adventure. Since Sulu is present at every major event and his maneuvering on the sides is what helped Kirk win through.
Apparently, Sulu was supposed to be a Captain in Star Trek II and William Shatner nixed the idea, resulting in very little screentime for Sulu in the film. I don't think George Takei ever got over that, but despite the feud, it was awesome to see him play Captain Sulu at long last!
I went to a Star Trek convention not long after this movie's release, and Takei was the headliner. He was practically glowing as he talked about Sulu being a captain.
Huh, that's odd. The site says this should be a look at ST:V, but it's ST:VI. Is that a mistake on the site listing or did Chuck upload the wrong video?
Wow I just realized for the first time. That Valares is still at a Starfleet penil colony. Being long lived could she have been at the same one Tom Paris was at?
I've always felt that the implication that they're going to "dismantle the Starfleet" was obviously not literal; rather just a reduction of forces... but they do strongly imply that they're talking about complete disarmament. It's very bizarre.
The only logical contextual answer is a drawdown of forces similar to the Washington Naval Treaty post WWI. Thus the decommissioning of what was essentially a newly refit ship. If you are going to be limited to X number of cruisers, they are going to be the newest ones.
25:32 it's says "Dax" on the locker where the boot was found. Would that be kurzon Dax (jadzia Dax symbiot from ds9)?? He did negotiate the khitomer accords.
@@noneya3635 kurzon is only in the pilot of ds9 as far as I recall and ya had the episode where kurzon and odo are the one being when jadzia wants to meet previous hosts. I've not watched the films in years so when I saw the name dax, I had to ask
Star Trek V was just Kirk's dream after he went to sleep at his campsite in Yosemite. The dream ends, and he is still in Yosemite enjoying his vacation with his two best friends.
Remember when Kirk was recording a Capts log at the start of V, and his handheld recorder breaks? My head Canon is that the events of V were an incredibly poor recollection of events from Kirk's POV from that moment on and totally out of sync with reality lol
I am of the opinion that Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is the best of all the theatrical Star Trek Films. Full Stop. My order of preference is: VI > II > FC > JJ III > IV > Ins > JJ I > JJ II > III > VII > V > I > Nemesis
I've spent 3/4 of my life looking for an opportunity to use the line, "What you want is irrelevant; what you've chosen is at hand." I love Spock's barely-contained rage in that scene.
Yes, Spock definitely had a slight change in character beginning in V tff when he says, “Damn you sir you will try” and “Not in front of the Klingons”. Ending tuc with, “If I were human I think my response would be go to Hell. If I were human...”
I used it with my kids nearly on daily basis as they were growing up...
I use "a degree of intrepidity" as much as possible
"It's hard to imagine today how it was to live back then, with the threat of global nuclear war..." - Well that sentence aged like fine milk.
Wrath of Khan, you’re a fantastic Trek film...but I like The Undiscovered Country just a little bit more.
Same.
Interesting. For me it's the one I never got into, even after finishing 5 (which held me as much for how bonkers it was). I'm pretty sure I didn't finish it the first time I went through the movies and even today I have trouble remembering it. Like I remember the purple blood and the shape shifter, and that it was the fall of the USSR in space, but not the actual plot.
Same here!
I totally understand that feeling.
@@ZipplyZane Maybe because Star Trek VI was heavy on allegory but light on science fiction. We did get some ship vs ship knock down and drag out action but not until nearly the end. Star Trek VI is my second favorite after Star Trek II but I can understand why some people might not care for it.
The dinner scene with the Klingons aboard the Enterprise-A was probably best described by Khan Noonien Singh, played by the late Ricardo Montalbán, that he said to Captain Kirk in the TOS episode titled *Space Seed* _It has been said that social occasions are only warfare concealed._
I really like Star Trek VI. It shows that while the future is a utopia and people are just all around better; the utopia needs continuous effort and maintenance and that the people are still at their core the same beings we are today. It shows that the Federation and its ideals aren't just a fantasy but can survive taking a hit and can stand strong even in the face of adversity. From without and within.
The example of Kirk having such hatred and even racism against Klingons does less so show him as an imperfect hero and more as an example to us today how we can become better ourselves.
This movie links our current present with the utopian future of Star Trek better then anything else.
There was so much objection to racist attitudes being on display here, but many seem to forget that even in the original TV series, humans were shown to carry with them racist elements, even in the 23rd century. Balance of Terror comes to mind as Spock is suddenly the object of scorn and suspicion by a crewman after it is revealed that the hated Romulan enemies look exactly like Vulcans.
Regarding your comment about how utopia requires constant work and vigilance, spot on.
What I dislike about Roddenberry's approach to a utopian future is his lazy approach to it: They just figure it out.... and no maintenance required, it always works perfectly.
It is only human to hate the enemy.
I understand that some fans really hate the "Let them die!" bit but for me its one of the more memorable kirk moments, it shows how human he was and how much his son's murder still hurt him and while the movie clearly pushed that we need to move on from past hatreds to build a better future it makes no attempt overly simplify Kirk's long lasting grudge, it a natural human thing to hurt over such a tragedy, and to the writer's credit they make damn sure that the audience remembers Kirk's feeling were legitimate given his life, and that made his realization that he needed to let go and accept the change of history all the more natural by the end.
Kirk's outburst, Spock's clearly shocked expression at it and Kirk taking a breath and bringing it back in was such a good moment in that scene, said so much with just facial expressions.
Tbh I haven't met a single person that hated the "Let them die!" line. Everyone I know love it, because - what you said.
@@ELEKTROSKANSEN There are some trek fans out there that don't like flawed protagonists, seem to think its not real trek or something odd like that. Thankfully not a majority because bits like this are some of the best trek IMO.
Shatner shouldn’t have been disappointed by the cutting of his line “I didn’t mean that” after his “let them die” outburst. The beat after Spock’s reaction was good enough. It’s a tiny moment but you can see Kirk’s own disappointment with the fact that he let himself say something so awful. Really well acted.
Keeping the line would have been bad for the movie.
He wasn't speaking as an officer, he was a grieving father at that point.
One of my favorite lines, “Shields Cap’n...???” “We Surrender!”
Kirk, “I will not be the instigator of full scale war on the eve of universal peace”.
The Undiscovered Country always felt like a very grounded and sober movie to me, especially when compared to Four and Five. It is not a boring movie by any description but it needs a certain eye for politics and intrigue to see the benefits in the movie as it can feel slower than the previous movies.
So, exactly how Star Trek is at it's best, and thus how Star Trek should be.
@@Idazmi7 Precisely! The only other way it's better for me is when they're "discovering new life forms and new worlds", not running around punching bad guys like the Jar Jar Abrahms Trek.
*its
Never noticed this before, but in the last breakaway shot with the crew, the navigator's seat (Sulu's) is intentionally empty, symbolically showing that he is still part of the Enterprise family.
I could be wrong, but I believe the line Nichelle refused to say was "guess who's coming to dinner." Which is a direct reference to the film which features a caucasian woman bringing home her African- American boyfriend to meet her parents. In that context, I can't really blame her for refusing to say that line.
A fun thing to note is that when you see the Enterprise and Qo'Nos 1 traveling side by side it sort of draws in a comparison as we can assume that Qo'Nos 1 is a D7 possibly the K't'inga refit and the Enterprise as we know is a Constitution Class Refit, both of these classes served on the front line in their respective fronts the classes themselves were mighty symbols of their governments and it embodies the sheer nature of the peace talks where the militaries of both powers now had to play ball with one another ultimately burying the hatchet which had seen the deaths of countless on both sides.
Good observation. It's interesting. I hadn't realised that this film was quite so nuanced.
I miss those painted posters.
My family's TUC vhs was my only exposure to the TOS crew (born in 92) and yet this was the piece of Star Trek I adored and always went back to (second was our recording of Year of Hell). There's just something magical about this film that captivates both longtime fans and 5 year old girls. I still get goosebumps at "and let LOOSE the dogs of war!"
TOS Cast 'likely' *knew* TUC would be their last and final hurrah (together). I believe their ACTING - - and the overall effort is commensurate w/ that fact. Hell; even Bill Shatner POPS (off the screen), when he tells Spock, "LET them die . . . (!)"
Even as 'a Child watching said scene' one thinks to themselves, "WHOA: That wuz DAAAARK."
Smart Acting all around.
And a worthy Curtain Call (for TOS). \m/
I also fell for Star Trek as a tiny child, in the form of the old TOS show, and TUC is the movie that had the most of that original feeling for me.
The wife and I loved "The year of hell". What a great episode!
The hidden gem of the star trek films. The soundtrack gives such a feeling of dread when the Klingon cruiser passes by.
Having Saavik instead of Valeris would have been so much better. I remember in the book for the search for Spock, She and David had a thing going. It would make sense that she'd be one of the ones against the peace being that she watched her lover get murdered at the hands of the klingons.
The fact that Saavik was half Romulan, her feelings could've been brought to the surface.
good point
These days I tend to view WOK, SFS, and TVH as the central cinematic Trek saga and in an odd way, TUC as the epilogue. You certainly can see the story of the original series crew in IV as a fitting conclusion, having gone from being mature officers among young cadets, to Federation outlaws, to heroes finally return to the place they belong.
But there is something to be said for VI as the post script to that tale, being of a bit of bookend to II's dynamic of the "old among the new" in Wrath of Khan to The Undiscovered Country where Kirk and company now effectively do pass the torch to the next generation and/or embrace their roles beyond the Enterprise. I guess for me, the Voyage Home is the conclusion for the characters where as Undiscovered Country is the real conclusion to TOS itself, allowing that era, its central themes, and its performers to one final bow to the audience.
Agreed. Much like how _Return of the Jedi_ is the end of Star Wars.
Came here to say something similar, which you already artuculated so perfectly. Well said.
30 years later and we are still searching for that Undiscovered Country
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRYwill always be my favorite movie. Hands down.
Undiscovered country is my favorite film in the series; ambitious, smart, adventurous & fun and this same time! That's how you do political allegory; not beat people over the head with moral and demonise your political opponents but showing tragic side of your antagonists; that they have rational reasons to oppose change - after all even Kirk lost his son to Klingons - , that they hate their enemies not because of some stupid prejudice and they are to stuck in the past to change. After all like you said even in the 80's end of cold war was unthinkable
This was the first Star Trek movie I ever saw in theaters, and it cemented my love for Star Trek as a young boy.
Star Trek VI is a brilliant film, it had a great look and feel to it.
"It could be argued that the events to come would have more of an emotional impact if it was Saavik. However this can be forgiven because... Valeris is hot."
There, put that back in for ya.
Saavik was hot too in the form of Kirstie Alley.
These are v4.0 nerfed reviews :( And like george's ''special editions".... fail to hit the mark
@@johnspencer3994 I don't mind if Chuck wants to do more condensed reviews that are a bit more serious. These even have some observations that the others don't, and I appreciate that. And the counterpart reviews are still available, you know. So I consider these bonuses.
Saavik was way hotter in my view.
My head canon for the same actor playing admiral cartwright and Joseph Sisko was that Admiral cartwright was indeed an ancestor to the Siskos which is why Mr. Sisko was upset that Benjamin became a starfleet officer. He may have been worried that the dishonorable actions of Admiral cartwright would be held against his son.
Chuck: "Viewing history says much more about yourself than the past in many cases, because it talks about the lense which you use to view the past. When we talk about learning lessons from the past, oftentimes we talk about how we can use the past to justify lessons we want to share today."
Of all the Trek films featuring the original crew, this is my favorite. It was the end of a movie franchise era that would not be equaled to this day. As a kid who watched the original television series in the 60's, it was a sad ending knowing the full compliment of characters were sailing off into the sun never to be assembled again.
"Fly her apart then!" Love that movie.
An excellent review of one of the best Star Trek movies.
My recollection of the American attitude toward Gorbachev was one of ambivalence; he was a comedy but also represented a possible end of the Cold War, a celebrity we kind of have trusted and also didn’t. I summed him up this way: “Center Square on Hollywood squares.”
This is probably my favorite ending to a franchise ever. They nailed it. TNG All Good Things too, but that wasn't the end to their story.
Credit to Meyer for using NCC-2000 as the "hot tag" and taking a "big bump" (wrestling terms) in the final battle.
What do you mean "All Good Things" wasn't the end of their story?
You sound like you live in a universe where someone thrashed the series by making 4 incredibly dumb movies that stand against everything the show was about, and a miserable tv show about Picard being old and forgetting what his character was like.
What a terrible universe to live in!
@@ELEKTROSKANSEN they were onto something with First Contact even though I think that was not that great of a movie. Picard Season 3 was good through the first five episodes until it became Fan Service.
I regret I have but one like to give for such a good review. This review was epic, not only of the movie itself, but of the time it was made in and the hidden meanings lost to those who would come later.
Very well done sir.
One of the best presentations on this episode I have heard to date. Many thanks.
I think what may have been Nimoy’s most subtle but amazing moment as Spock, was the confrontation with Valeris. We see Spock’s humanity in that moment in subtle yet powerful emotions.
My favorite Star Trek film! Finally!
"Don't wait for the translation!" Is an actual historical quote. It happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis when the US prosecutor at the UN was questioning the Russian representative about pictures showing missiles set up in Cuba. :)
I thought Kruschev said it at the UN…
One interesting thing I just picked up in this review, after your note on the colour purple is how Chang is coloured in green for the final battle. A complementary colour to purple but also one of calming and relaxed, this is what Chang feels in his element. Much like Kirk being so used to hating Klingons, this is Chang feeling at ease because this what he wants, to be at war. The final stepping stone to the end of this history is be in a familiar space one last time.
I love looking back at these old films, but it's also a sad reminder of how long it's been since Star Trek was actually worth caring about.
oh, you're one of those types, huh?
I'm 54, been a fan since I was a kid, and am enjoying the hell out of Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. Oh well, at least you whiners have your Orville safe space, right?
@@christheghostwriter how many times did you get thrown down the stairs in order to like nu-trek?
@@johnspencer3994 thanks for proving my point about people like you
@@christheghostwriter "people like you" ok boomer
@@johnspencer3994 you can't spell irony without (at least some of) IDIC
Thanks for proving my point the first time, and thanks once again for doubling down and showing it wasn't a fluke. Nothing says "I'm the REAL Trek fan" like a good ageist joke. Want to know anything about my ethnicity, maybe give you some more ammo?
Wrath of Kahn still my favorite by far.. to many good things to say about it made me a life long trekie
What an awesome overview of my favorite Star Trek movie. Your last words sum up my feelings about this movie "Let's have fun one more time before we say goodbye." This was the last time we saw the whole gang together in live action, and they went out with a bang.
I find myself thinking about how current this film is to the present. “If there is to be a brave new world, you and I are going to have the hardest time living in it.”
My favorite scene in this is Spock's rage: "What you want is irrelevant! What you have chosen is at hand!"
I would say that, if Star Trek II made Trek "classic drama", and IV made it "mainstream entertainment", then VI wasn't just "having fun one more time", it made Trek into the "high art" that it always aspired to be. It was a thoughtful, introspective story about current events, but also about the show's own history and legacy. It looks back on its own history and deconstructs itself a little bit, but avoids all the annoying references, call-backs, and fan service that oversaturates so many more modern movies.
Hands down my favorite movie. As relevant back then as it was today and probably will be in the future.
Ended up in a stupid argument about this movie in Star Trek Online a few days ago where this one person insisted that this movie was nothing more than a murder mystery and nothing else. It was... frustrating.
Procedurals are a favourite framing device for all kinds of SF stories because they allow for easy world building and plot advancement: our protagonists are trying to figure out a mystery, so they have to go to different places, talk with all sorts of people, and look for clues. And, it's a handy formula that audiences who aren't very familiar with SF genre tropes can follow along with while the SF elements are explained to them. It might be an overused tool sometimes, but it is a very handy one.
A strange opinion for sure, especially since many old sci-fi writers were mystery writers on the side, and many exceptional works of sci-fi such as 1953's The Demolished Man were in large part murder mysteries, and Star Trek 6's murder mystery elements seem to have been mostly borrowed from the classic Star Trek episode "Court Martial."
Don't let it frustrate you. You can't cure stupid. Better to just walk away and let them wallow in their own poop.
That's kind of weird, given that we have a name for the whole genre STVI belongs to: *political thriller.*
There’s also a clever little allusion with Valeris’s name. Eris is the Greek goddess of discord and strife, and Valeris helped sow strife and discord.
I really struggle to decide between Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country. Apparently Gene Roddenberry really objected to some of the aspects of the film where characters show prejudice but honestly I think it has excellent teaching value as an examination of the human condition. I think the idea of the wall coming down in space is brilliant. Characters were well used. From Kirks prejudice to Spock going full Sherlock Holmes trying to solve the mystery. The conspiracy being like you say - enemies collaborating. To Sulu staying loyal to his former crew mates. The ending even after seeing it dozens of times since I was 7 still brings strong emotions 25 years later as Sulu and Kirk bid farewell to each other and Excelsior flys off into the distance.
An absolutely brilliant send off.
With all due respect to Gene Roddenberry, he was wrong in his opinion of this film. He had full control of the TV series, and in Balance of Terror, he showed a human crewman who was prejudiced against Spock based solely on the fact that he looks like a Romulan. Gene already showcased that humans were still flawed in the 23rd century. As he grew older, he seemed to want the characters to be too perfect, which was a problem in the first two seasons of Star Trek The Next Generation. You can't write anything interesting if you make your characters too perfect and evolved. As much as I hate to say it, Star Trek got better in the 1980s and 1990s as Gene had less and less control. It is his vision, but as time went on, I think he became too "old and inflexible as to outlive his usefulness", so to speak. I sound like I am hating on Gene, but really I am not. Just like any of us, though, we change as we get older and we stubborn up over things. This is why Gene lost influence in Star Trek, and even in Star Trek TNG after season 1.
I'm in the middle of a game of Diplomacy and lemme tell ya, the uncertainty of neutrals is real
You put into words so many feelings I've had, thank you.
26:25 Purple is the hue of the alpengloam, the light of transition between day and night-- whether that is a growing dusk or the coming of a new dawn.
Christopher Plummer stole the movie 🥰
This is why I am hoping that he has considered or someone will request the Klingon Academy game.
I can't be the only one annoyed that Chang, like Khan, also was constantly quoting Earth literature.
I thought the Shakespeare lines were fun especially with Chang’s over the top theater delivery
You could tell he was having a lot of fun with it.
@@mooseclamps well, Khan was from Earth.
I always thought the Klingon blood looked like yogurt.
Especially “go-gurt”
The MPAA would have rated the movie R if the blood was colored red, which would have impacted ticket sales
It was pepto bismol...what's wrong with you people?
Wonderful analysis, I truly enjoyed it! It made me really want to watch ST:VI again to notice the subtleties you bring up about the motivations behind how the conspirators act before the mystery is revealed. I've always just watched the film on a pure "popcorn"-level, but like all truly good works of fiction, there's so much going on behind the scenes that elevates it. Such a good send off to the original crew! Thanks again for your video!
I was at a convention in the before times and I bought a Star Trek VI poster because it was my favorite Trek Movie. I was about to move so I didn't hang it up, and I moved another time before I found it again like 3 years later. It now sits next to a poster for Star Wars in my room to remind me of my favorite parts of both series.
Great review. Very interesting commentary about the film and what it set out to do. Excellent work!
It makes sense to have the Enterprise and Kirk be the olive branch but under supervision of a full ambassador like Sarek. There was no logical reason to have go it alone. They could see the difficulty Kirk would have by what he said in the meeting.
Great review! Thanks for your wonderful work!
I'm currently reading the Star Trek novel "Shadows On The Sun" by Michael Jan Friedman.
It's set right after the events of Star Trek 6 and is a great story for anyone a fan of the character Dr McCoy 😀
ST6 is my FAVORITE star trek movie. Sulu's scenes were MAGNIFICENT!
God I love this film so much. Not sure why its so high on my list but its my favourite ST movie.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is one of the bests Star Trek Movies.
This is the one I show to people who don't watch Star Trek.
This is great. Very insightful. Our has increased my love of this movie. I already thought it was great.
Excellent film and I appreciate this analysis. As for the USSR, there is historical information from when the Russian archives were still open . Some of the high party members (most notably Yuri Andropov), pretty much mused that the country would not last much longer at the rate they were going; and that was all the way back in 1980. The Afghanistan War, Chernobyl and Gorbachev's reforms pretty much put the exclamation point on a system that had been doing poorly since the latter years of Brezhnev. Also, if you ever have the pleasure (or lack thereof lol) of watching ST V and ST VI back to back, the rise in quality is astonishing. One film is an absolute trainwreck and the other film is quite well made.
Thank you for this excellent analysis.
A lot of the themes of this film are still very relevant today (sadly for the worse in most cases). “If there is to be a brave new world our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it”.
This is really in depth which makes me appreciate Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country even more. Could be among my top 3 favorite Star trek film along with Star Trek II The Wrath of Kahn and Star Trek IV The Journey Home
This is really the only UA-cam channel I listen to
Shatner really doesn't seem to understand that he's not actually kirk.
Shatner understands Kirk a LOT better than Stewart understands Picard. And he knows the franchise (and what makes it work) better than the writers of today. Shatner's Trek novels are the only ones I can really stand to read.
@@KamenRiderGumo The writers of today still know Star Trek.
It’s the fans who have forgotten that it always takes a few seasons before Star Trek shows get good.
@@dvader518 You’d think after 50+ years they wouldnt have forgotten that unwritten rule.
it's like a videogame. some gamers just don't understand that a terrible game can still be good after 50 hours...
I mean come on! you don't want to pay for a game that isn't good for 50 hours? and you call yourself a fan???
@@KamenRiderGumo Shatner’s novels aren’t really his. His name is there, sure, but it’s the Reeves-Stevens couple that makes them work. I’m certain that Shatner’s main contribution was the continuous Kirk-As-Superhero narrative that they all contain.
Excellent breakdown analysis of The Undiscovered Country ! I agree with everything the narrator stated.
After The Voyage Home which in my opinion, the "Voyage Home" movie sequel was a nice hokey family fun heart warming "save the whales" "environmental save the planet" meme movie story script for the audience enjoyment, but as a Star Trek mission script, it was terrible, and after The Final Frontier disaster, "The Undiscovered Country" of the Star Trek Enterprise crew, Star Trek returned back to it's core mission which is what it's supposed to be about, about facing reality truth about your enemies, as well as about your perceived friends.
Gorbachev says in his _The New Russia_ that he attempted to democratize the SU, and preserve it thereby. He admits to his personal reason for doing so - he did not want to splinter it and break up the ties between the republics and hence break the personal ties that resulted from this - the good side of an empire, as it were. The personal reason was new to me - as a teenager during the events I do not remember it ever being mentioned that his wife was Ukrainian. As for the movie, I think it is still an excellent allegory, but I have found that those who do not remember the allegory's target find it somewhat hard to understand. The trope about the SU lasting into the 24th century (or the future in general) was in science fiction of all kinds - _2010_, _Fantastic Voyage_, etc. but often are very unclear as to what sort of political arrangement is at work beyond the (usual) expectation that the US also exists and is ideologically different - the writers of TNG deliberately, I think, subverting that.
Great video! Thank you! K'plah!
This was a fine essay. Well done.
I love all these discussions you’ve done, they seem to get better and better. Have you thought about doing Star Trek V?
This is my favourite ST movie. Not even close.
Really enjoyed this
"... nor a history teacher when you get down to it.... but what can you do when history presents two radically different interpretations of the same event?"
It's okay, the solution is simple. Just go bother Blue and listen to him rave about Florence for a few hours. He'll help you get a grip on whatever history you want to know, likely helping you chase sources down :)
This was the first Trek movie I saw in a theater. A friend's dad took us on opening day.
(I later realized it was also my first date. I was pretty clueless as a preteen. Sorry, Christy.)
Excellent commentary.
Thanks. Solid.
The line where spock says to Valeris how logic is only the beginning of wisdom is powerful when you consider that the guy has come back from the dead; its as if if he has taken a quantum leap beyond the vulcan he was before. Spock has transcended even Surak in his level of knowledge.
This was Brilliant
I think the decommissioning at the end was just referring to the sr staff not the ship. In the beginning its apparent in his Kirk’s log entry the ship will be in the care of another crew and Captain. Then canon says the ship was decommissioned soon after.
My favorite original crew Star Trek movie. Yes i like this one more than Wrath of Khan.
Sulu had a edited line in the shuttle run to Enterprise in twol. By end of the movie and test screenings showed how ppl loved twok and they edited out Sulu talking about taking command pf Excelsior in trek II twok
Don't worry about your Klingon, it could be worse. It could sound like on Discovery.
Great!
This is my favorite Trek movie, but the one thing that always bugs me is Spock's illogical conclusion that the gravity boots must be on the Enterprise. The assassins could've just as easily beamed back to the BoP, with another accomplice falsifying the Enterprise's records.
Great review, but you missed out mentioning Colonel Worf, played by Micheal Dorn, who was playing his grandfather, it's also a bridge to the next generation
Also, the moment when I was watching this film, I choked...and then cheered
I consider it a great wasted opportunity for Star Trek to have made two prequel series since Voyager when the opportunity to look at how Star Fleet deals with the transition from wartime readiness to a return to peacetime exploration has been waiting to be told ever since The Undiscovered Country. Considering how the real-life examples of the US Navy and allied forces have dealt with the end of the Cold War should have made writing the general themes of the series fairly straight forward. The time between Star Trek 6 and TNG is supposed to be a 'golden age' for Star Fleet, but we've never seen it.
I also just really want a series set on an Excelsior class boat, with crew in the classic 'monster maroons'.
Too risky for the bean counters. ST may have started as borderline counterculture, but it evolved into a prime cash cow. Like Disney with Marvel, CBS wants nothing but guarunteed success from their IP investment. The irony is that ST was always great *because* it told the risky stories, so with that removed all of the new entries into the franchise have sucked.
This was great
This movie must have been Takei's dream come true. Sulu gets to be captain and Takei never had to be on the same set as Kirk aside from that one scene at the peace conference.
If only we had a sulu series.
Shameful missed opportunity.
I met George Takei at my first convention. He's always maintained that the movie should be titled Star Trek VI: The Captain Duly Adventure. Since Sulu is present at every major event and his maneuvering on the sides is what helped Kirk win through.
Apparently, Sulu was supposed to be a Captain in Star Trek II and William Shatner nixed the idea, resulting in very little screentime for Sulu in the film. I don't think George Takei ever got over that, but despite the feud, it was awesome to see him play Captain Sulu at long last!
I went to a Star Trek convention not long after this movie's release, and Takei was the headliner. He was practically glowing as he talked about Sulu being a captain.
This was the first trek movie I ever saw in the theaters
Masterpiece
This was an excellent swan song.
One that Generations took a Cleveland Steamer on
To sleep, perchance to dream-ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
Huh, that's odd. The site says this should be a look at ST:V, but it's ST:VI. Is that a mistake on the site listing or did Chuck upload the wrong video?
Wow I just realized for the first time. That Valares is still at a Starfleet penil colony. Being long lived could she have been at the same one Tom Paris was at?
I've always felt that the implication that they're going to "dismantle the Starfleet" was obviously not literal; rather just a reduction of forces... but they do strongly imply that they're talking about complete disarmament. It's very bizarre.
The only logical contextual answer is a drawdown of forces similar to the Washington Naval Treaty post WWI. Thus the decommissioning of what was essentially a newly refit ship. If you are going to be limited to X number of cruisers, they are going to be the newest ones.
Dismantling of Starbase along the Neutral Zone.
25:32 it's says "Dax" on the locker where the boot was found. Would that be kurzon Dax (jadzia Dax symbiot from ds9)?? He did negotiate the khitomer accords.
You haven't watched DS9 for some time i take it. They showed Kurzon Dax in the show, he isn't a big foot with a face appliance.
@@noneya3635 kurzon is only in the pilot of ds9 as far as I recall and ya had the episode where kurzon and odo are the one being when jadzia wants to meet previous hosts. I've not watched the films in years so when I saw the name dax, I had to ask
Star Treks 2,3,4 and 6 make a great quartet. I like how they pretend 5 never existed.
Star Trek V was just Kirk's dream after he went to sleep at his campsite in Yosemite. The dream ends, and he is still in Yosemite enjoying his vacation with his two best friends.
Remember when Kirk was recording a Capts log at the start of V, and his handheld recorder breaks? My head Canon is that the events of V were an incredibly poor recollection of events from Kirk's POV from that moment on and totally out of sync with reality lol
I am of the opinion that Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is the best of all the theatrical Star Trek Films. Full Stop.
My order of preference is: VI > II > FC > JJ III > IV > Ins > JJ I > JJ II > III > VII > V > I > Nemesis
Sulu showed his admiration for the Excelsior in Star Trek III already ;)
if you watched the video, he says that
there's a scene that's taken out and Star Trek II that said he was supposed to get the excelsior after the training Cruise was done
Not sure that scene was ever filmed, but it's in the novelization. And Vonda was working from the original pre-shooting script.