Indian TS111 Catalytic Converter Heat Comparison

[@jeffstieren4474]

I just gutted my converter on my 2017 Roadmaster. It was not hard and took me one day from start to finish. I cut the converter open and welded it myself. I went one step further and then wrapped the pipe with exhaust tape and then sprayed it with a high temp silicone base spray to protect the wrap. The results are simply amazing. The massive heat is gone and the engine really breathes. I can certainly feel a power increase as well. I did not take temperature before and after, ugh.

[@rosewood1]

My Springfield has the factory oil cooler and I wear proper gear. I had the factory oil cooler fitted from new on my 2017 Springfield. The bike has a Washington State exhaust so its pretty free flowing. Heat simply isn't a problem and most of the time I could put my paw on rear rocker cover. I have ridden numerous times in extreme heat conditions like 114 degrees F in the USA on Interstate 40 to San Diego in awful traffic, Death Valley and 42C in Australia. Now some caveats. I avoid idling excessively especially when it's hot. I try to avoid summer city traffic jams it is rubbish riding in those conditions anyway. I always wear heavy gear especially when it's really hot because good gear will both reflect heat away from you and it has good venting and at speed the airflow will keep you cool. I always wear Kevlar pants. I think anything that restricts airflow around the bikes engine is a bad idea. It is an air cooled engine. I also make sure oil levels are up because oil cooling is also very important. My bike is a standard 111. I wouldn't change it to a 116 as I am happy with current performance and reliability. BMW rely on oil coolers for their aircooled bikes and I have found them to be completely reliable. I find it puzzling that most Indians don't have them and yet originally they were standard fitment on the 111. The only down side of the oil cooler is the engine takes longer to warm up. So I ride gently to start with until operating temperature is reached and my shortest ride is 40k because I live in rural Australia. Cheers all

[@eltonbutton7541]

Hey Man, love the concept of temp between the 2 bikes, but as you have seen with the comments may not have been executed the right way with the IR Thermometer, so many things effect the IR, surface colour, surface texture, distances, angle and so on. love your commitment to the Indians and sharing everything that you do, i know you are just a dude doing what you love keep it up and maybe if you go down this road again try using a probe thermocouple or maybe even a meat thermometer, what ever you do don't stop doing it.

[@TwoIndians]

thank you and yes, I'm just a dude with an IR sensor i borrowed from a freind, nothing scientific about it. I think we can glean small bit of anecdotal evidence from this exercise and thats all i was trying to show. appreciate your understanding. LOL the ciriticism from metalurgy experts on temperature measurements has been entertaining. hahaha thanks again

[@scoutinthearea8710]

I’m running Freedom Performance True Duals too with FP Eagle Slipons and love them / love the sound .. noticeable heat decrease in engine temps with outside temps above 90 degrees.

[@tracymullens4205]

Great test I’ve got 2016 chief vintage that,s enough evidence I need to start surgery on my converter

[@jeffstieren4474]

Brian, nice job.
I personally removed/ gutted the converter on my 2017 Roadmaster. I also wrapped the converter area with exhaust tape. I then replaced my stock seat as it has a medal base to it. Then I ditched my Capt. itch ! I have zero heat now as appears to the burning I would get prior to doing this. Seriously, quiet amazing and the added increase in power was also amazing.

[@garykoehler]

Thanks! There is a difference in emissivity of the black and chrome surfaces. On the exhaust pipe you are measuring the temperature of the heat shield and not the pipe. The difference in brands and distance from the actual pipe to the shield could also impact the readings. That may account for some of the temperature differences but the conclusion still holds - DeCAT and true duals helps temperature tremendously.

[@lugnut1009]

My '16 Springfield never was very hot on my legs until I installed fork mounted wind deflectors, now with the decreased air flow around my legs the heat really generates up my legs. Gonna do this really soon!

[@denniserie6517]

Just purchased a 2020 Springfield last week, your videos are helpful. Thanks

[@TwoIndians]

Thanks! I hope you’ve subscribed and continue to enjoy! Check us out on FB and IG also @ridewithtwoindians.

[@yayagazab4449]

My bike is completely stock. I changed out the original battery with a lithium one & the heat from the rear cylinder melted the bottom of the lithium battery. The bike gave off some error codes. When I took out the lithium battery the bottom was warped from the excess heat. I went back to a traditional AGM battery. In the fall & early winter the heat feels good though.

[@gaud4029]

Thanks for the video. I just bought a new Indian and I thought the engine was a little warm. And I was wondering if that wasn't what it was. So now I'll make the modification. Your videos very helpful

[@IndianRidersBrasil]

One of our local members who live in midwestern Brazil (actually, myself, who am contacting you, LOL) is about to replace his stock headers for Freedom Performance ones. We´ll let you know how it goes. Climate is as hot as up there in Florida.

[@fogit4668]

Best way to reduce heat would be to ceramic coat the heads, valves, exhaust ports and inside of the headers. Racers have been doing this for years. A company that I used for my bike is Swaintech. I believe they are still in New York.

[@semccane]

I took out the Cat on my 19 Roadmaster, and was disappointed that the heat reduction was little to none. Going with full stage one next. But thanks for the video

[@mortondavisproductions7578]

I ride a 2016 Indian Roadmaster and removed the lower fairings. As a result, the engine receives much more air and I do not mind air on my legs at all. I am going to be purchasing leather wear for my legs and that will provide all the protection from air that I will ever need. I have no issues with heat while riding my bike. I will never let the engine on my bike run for any more than a few moments when it is sitting still, as you have. These engines need air flowing around them, as you know.

[@JohnTaylor-vk5ul]

Hello Brian, thank you for this video. I have ordered a new Springfeild Dark Horse and this was helpful, now I can prepare and plan for this.

[@TwoIndians]

Hey man, I am the expert on Springfields LOL. Check out all our other content!

[@TwoIndians]

Whatever you do, don’t buy True Dual headers.

[@conantdog]

Loved your opening shots and music 👌

[@steveh7108]

Something to consider is that those infrared thermometers don't register accurately on a chrome metallic as well as they do on the flat black

[@TwoIndians]

It’s what I had, strictly unscientific but can you argue with the anecdotal results

[@ripperace]

Should you alter the tune on the ECU, or run something like a Power Commander when you either gut the cat, or replace the head pipes?

[@TwoIndians]

The power commander does alter the tune inside the ECU on these air cooled bikes. It’s basically a tool you use to push the tune into the ECU. And yes, you def need that when ever do a cat delete or header change.

[@susancates9544]

Well, you asked for comments. The adjustments made to your exhaust certainly proved effective in reducing the heat issue. Additionally, I believe since you have ugly feet.... chuckle, chuckle.... a pair of shoes would have been in order.

[@TwoIndians]

yes, yes, I'm guilty of parading my sexy bare feet around as though it doesn't just drive the ladies mad with passion, forgive me if you felt overcome with...oh wait, you DON'T like my feet? oh heavens! what shall I do? LOL, all kidding aside my dear Susan, Im afraid I'm just a child of the 70's and a country boy we ran wild and barefoot as kids and it stays with me to this day. I do ride with shoes though. :D Thanks for watching and check out our travel content where i wear shoes and we have a lot of fun, in shoes. Did i mention I wear shoes? :D Be well!

[@steveh4564]

Chinese proverb: “Spend as much as you can the first time and you’ll only cry once.” You cried twice lol. Thanks for sharing!

[@TwoIndians]

Dude, I’ve made so many mistakes on this bike. All of them on the exhaust.

[@steveh4564]

​@@TwoIndians I feel your pain. It's a slippery and expensive slope. I plan to keep my new Springfield Dark Horse exhaust stock for as long as my naturally masochistic motorcycle brain will let me.

[@jimrhodes3487]

You're right, I won't talk about this at work, BUT I will think about it alot. great video. thanks , signed, MAN WITH RED BURNT CALF. lol

[@bryanstaten5585]

Hey Bryan, got the general consensus but seeing how you have both bikes maybe do it again with just temps off the rest head which would be under your leg. And then after they are warmed up at idle go for a 10 minute ride and take temps again.

[@chrishunter5041]

Agree the de-catted sounds tinny, but I'd take that than the heat.

[@amphibdriver1]

@@TwoIndians ------> The Fuel Moto Jackpot headers sound so much better to me.

[@amphibdriver1]

@@TwoIndians -----> ua-cam.com/video/w1jf0mvQBNs/v-deo.html

[@iancoutts8440]

Hi Brian changed spark plugs from NGK DCPR8E. To NGK DCPR9E witch is a cooler plug every little bit helps for $13.00 AUD dollars maybe you could do a temporary test and see any gains cooler. I think it made a difference. Will let you know how it go’s with more riding. Stay cool.

[@yamahaxs6501]

I never really noticed the heat that bad, and I live in SW Florida. My wife, on the other hand, noticed it right away, as it must be concentrated a little behind my leg. Mine is warm, but she was on fire. She mentioned it to the group, and everyone said the same thing: "delete your cat!". Then she asked why I didn't do that already if everyone already knew what to do! lol.

[@Kitulu]

Another issues that a lot of the people on the Facebook group or the forum don't get is that the Roadmaster is typically much hotter due to the restriction of airflow from the lowers.

[@tyroneshoelace4872]

Thanks for sharing. I have a 2019 Springfield with Rinehart pipes. I'm after a louder and deeper sound and I'm told that the Jackpot (Fuel Moto) cat-less pipe is the way to go. The reduction in heat is a nice byproduct. How do you compare the sound of the true duals with the cat-less pipes? Thanks.

[@tyroneshoelace4872]

@@TwoIndians thanks for responding. To be clear, did you have the careless pipe from Fuel Moro (called Jackpot) or some other system? I ask because RH does make the catless pipe but I understand that it is the same a thw Jackpot oipe only all chromed, which accounts for the double the price.

[@SKUNKOFFICIALLC]

The good thing about the heat is that if you live where there is winter at least your lower body will be cool 😂😂😂🏍💯

[@TheSavannahBoy]

This is very helpful! Thanks!

[@jamespolucha6911]

Did you have to get a remap or reflash after the exhaust change?

[@jamespolucha6911]

Thanks, I just bought the FTR1200 and was going to take the cat off but S&S told me to leave it on and just replace the muffler I would need the cat for back pressure I will lose some low end and mid range power if I removed it, but thanks for the reply

[@bobmac9070]

Just curious I just bought the Chief Vintage with Freedom pipes . Do they actually help reduce some heat.are the headers changed when they use these new pipes? I personally like the throaty
Sound !
Thanks Bob Ohio

[@TwoIndians]

Well it depends on what you mean by “pipes”. If they are just slip on mufflers then no you need to change out the headers or remove the catalytic converter from the headers. I’ve replaced mine twice (see our other videos on this subject) and I can tell you from experience a two-into-one set up produces more power than true duals. But again, if you’re looking to cool things down, you gotta replace the headers.

[@gregrankins991]

Good information

[@dhoudyshell]

Love this video! 🙏

[@TwoIndians]

awesome buddy, thanks! have you seen the other ones on our channel I just put up comparing after market exhaust from Freedom Perf? Scope it out...

[@cashewnut2539]

Is it as simple as de catting or do you need to do other stuff such as the electronics or add baffles ?

[@TwoIndians]

The Easiest way to do it is just buy a full exhaust system and replace the stock system with a 2 into 1 (2:1) system. I’ve learned a thing or two because I’ve seen a thing or two. 😁 I like the freedom pipes personally but Rinehart and DND also make good systems

[@garthmctavish8931]

Good to know, thanks 😎👍

[@moustachemike7128]

a good tune will help with heat as well...by the way who did your tune

[@terryl100]

what is involved in taking out cats, cost, where its located?

[@TwoIndians]

You have to replace the header pipe, usually when you do that you wind up doing the whole exhaust system. Around $1500-$2000

[@Carlitos.116-Indian-Rider.]

I'm running true duals with rinehart slipons and I think that the bike sounds great olso I read somewhere that with true duals the temperature decreases about 30% but on the down side I I olso read that with true duals you lose torque on the bottom end. Well I did it anyways and if I lost any torque on the bottom end I can't tell it feels the same to me.

[@Carlitos.116-Indian-Rider.]

@@TwoIndians I olso had stage 2 cams maybe that is why I didn't felt any difference on torque, my bike is in the shop now getting the big bore kit installed I should get it back Saturday I can't wait.

[@1blacktrike]

Wow …😮

[@rsc68er]

interesting

[@s2hjt]

Bought a 2018 Roadmaster and fuck me does the seat get hot. looking into getting a leather guard from Captain itch. does any one know if you have to buy one for each side or two as a set, their ads are not clear on this.?

[@samuelramirez9001]

What was the last name that you mention that modified it? Mike what?

[@sheddski2942]

I have a Harley twin cam 88 fuel injected and it gets hot at stop lights and traffic I thought Indian and Harley both had rear cylinder cutoff at idle ?

[@TwoIndians]

Indian only has it on the 2019s and later, I have an 18

[@A-37Bdragonfly]

Cool video

[@DrDiff952]

What do I think. #1 we need the option of the Challenger engine in the Chieftain and Roadmaster. #2 you need to get the cat off of her bike!

[@terryloewen7291]

Did you install your Stage 1 Indian exhaust pipes to the Freedom Perf Header pipes? If so , hows the fit?

[@TwoIndians]

No sir. First I tried a complete True Dual system from Freedom, then I went to a complete Freedome 2:1 system.

[@sirglogglubardons150]

On the 2019 and newer the rear cylinder is suppose to deactivate. Does that help with the heat?

[@TwoIndians]

sirglogg LuBardons reports are mixed on that TBH. If you’re sitting in a lot of traffic it can be helpful but if you’re running on long rides it makes no difference. For me getting rid of the cat and getting a decent tune made the most difference. I’m working on a new video replacing the true duals with a 2:1. Stay tuned for that!

[@pmaint1]

Not noticably

[@darcher5888]

Thank you

[@PJMCG19]

Did you reflash the ecm after the cat delete?

[@TwoIndians]

Had it tuned to get it right.

[@bradmilkowski9786]

Wow!!!!

[@michaeleaton8801]

The heat is from rear head

[@wrzl1675]

I want to know how hot the head and pipes are on the Challenger. Absolutely nobody has commented one way or the other about engine heat while test riding that bike

[@joedatzman9268]

I can tell you that after riding my Springfield for 2 years now and just recently test rode the Challenger the heat difference is very significant. But there are too many things I don't like about the Challenger compared to my Springfield. I'm sticking with the Springfield and leaning toward installing the Jackpot conversion.

[@michaelhernandez1218]

What was the other heat shield brand besides Captain Itch?

[@ut1004bp]

Ok, yea but I didnt see what model years you were comparing.. Did either have the Rear Cylinder deactivation and was it engaged? I noticed the Stock bike valve train was more quite too

[@TwoIndians]

These are both 2018’s and we didn’t get rear cylinder deactivation that year. 2019 and up. Thanks!

[@ut1004bp]

@@TwoIndians the big change for 2018, Your models have the new piston skirts, Have you checked to see if you can upgrade to the RIde Modes and Rear Cylinder Deactivation software and required hardware of the 2019 and later?

[@TwoIndians]

It’s honestly not a big deal to me. Ride modes would be nice but since I did the BBK I got enough power LOL🤟👍😎

[@michaelfrey9736]

Did you have to reflash ecu?

[@shenal9999]

Flashing the ecu cause heat?

[@morrisdennis]

Yes

[@digbysdownunder]

Hey Brain,, about to get the cat takin out before my big trip, when i get it serviced etc.. but he cant get thr flash done as its not a Indian shop.. do you think thats a must?

[@digbysdownunder]

@@TwoIndians mine are feedem pipes, stage 2 cam and filter.. she does get a little warm,, so if it cools it down a bit, its worth it.

[@frankd7955]

I’m not sure if I followed all that but I think you should have a podiatrist check out your big toes. They look a little off.

[@TwoIndians]

That’s funny.

[@bilkorning9597]

It is not possible to measure temperature with an IR thermometer on mirror-shiny surfaces. If you also want to make comparisons, it must be the same structure and color on the surfaces. To make this type of temperature measurement, a contact thermometer must be used.
Believe me, I know this.

[@alecjames1426]

Laser temp reading on mirror surfaces like chrome does not give a true reading

[@TwoIndians]

I’m just a guy with a camera and a dream. And a borrowed laser thermometer.

[@nickheinz3737]

Surprised U let an air cooled engine idle so long without a fan blowing?

[@WolfofLon]

Exactly

[@josephkerkau2520]

Well , as an engineer, I understand the heat problem. But you should have shown how you make the change....

[@TwoIndians]

Um, it’s explained in nauseating detail on how I remove the catalytic converter by changing the exhaust. I have other videos that show that

[@josephkerkau2520]

@@TwoIndians Okidoki

[@montejones5788]

You guys realize the bike has to be remapped or they won't see much temperature drop increased exhaust flow means a leaner mixture later mixture means more heat

[@TwoIndians]

Yes, we do realize that. Thanks!

[@harveymushman2219]

Maybe the best way to reduce heat would be to ride the bikes...

[@TwoIndians]

No wonder!!! I usually just sit in the driveway and go “vroooooom, vrooooooom”.

[@tgwazu]

Freedom Performance True Duals; sounds like a dealer item?

[@tgwazu]

@@TwoIndians thanx kemosabe.

[@youdandee1]

Big Difference Didn’t Realize How Much Heat the Cat Would Make

[@Eng2BCapt]

You know you can turn off the rear cylinder while sitting in traffic to reduce the heat on the chieftain in the ride command.

[@TwoIndians]

That’s only on 2019 or higher models. Same for the ride modes. I don’t have these options on my 2018

[@Eng2BCapt]

@@TwoIndians didn’t know that. Now I do and knowing is half the battle. I have never really noticed any uncomfortable heat. But then again I just got my chieftain last fall.

[@TwoIndians]

Yeah summer time provides new perspective. Hehe, especially in FL.

[@onlyhereonce7290]

@@TwoIndians this is why I have a 2021 Chieftan with rear cylinder shut off. And I only ride in the winter. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed the heat from the cat.

[@s2hjt]

How? I have ride command on my phone but it's super slow and never delivers. FYI UK user.

[@balushidoublecdown942]

best way to cool it down is cut it out.

[@bilkorning9597]

Unfortunately, even though you put in a lot of thinking and are a smart guy. It is not possible to measure IR on reflective surfaces. They should preferably be matte black. If you take a lighter in one hand in front of a mirror, and then point the IR thermometer at the flame in the mirror, you will understand.
IR is reflected just like any other light.
So to get this right you need to have a contact thermometer, probe.
But it's great to actually make a comparison.
I will remove the catalyst on an Indian, so then I will measure before and after.

[@cavemancinnamonride]

my 2018 RM glows red hot on the rear pipe at idle and during a ride and you can really see it at night.

[@cavemancinnamonride]

stock that is.

[@cavemancinnamonride]

@@TwoIndians yes and I think I will have to find one set of pipes that will bolt-on with no cutting so I can keep the stock parts in case of a trade-in. Also a scavenger box in the pipe to maintain HP.

[@brianremington]

So a lot of people are pretty high on the Rhinehart Slimline for those exact reasons. The only drawback I’m hearing is they hang a little low and if you’re an aggressive rider I’m told they can scrape pavement.

[@brianremington]

So a lot of people are pretty high on the Rhinehart Slimline for those exact reasons. The only drawback I’m hearing is they hang a little low and if you’re an aggressive rider I’m told they can scrape pavement.

[@cavemancinnamonride]

@@brianremington I tend to lean into the corners hard to get the full amount from the bike. I may have to look to D and D out of Texas and see what he has been working on.

[@morrisdennis]

Get a long drill bit and drill that thing out shits not hard...

[@DrDennis]

You let those bikes sit and idle for 15 min sure they get hot, no sir flow!

[@brianc6066]

@@TwoIndians appreciate the research/info, but it's never a good idea to let an air cooled motorcycle sit and idle like that

[@michaelburnham3202]

Wait that guy is so hot

[@semperfipar1299]

That is not what catalytic converters do.

[@TwoIndians]

The Cats just absorb the heat from the exhaust and use that heat to burn up the particles.

[@donmitchell566]

what is it that you think they do? how is he wrong?? please sight your source for your "facts"

[@jamesdistefanis2183]

Your explanation of a catalytic converter is way off in your video. A catalytic converter adds a molecule of oxygen to the exhaust air/carbon monoxide, converting it to carbon dioxide by way of a catalytic reaction at or around 650 degrees in the catalytic converter.
What gets rid of carbon dioxide from motor vehicles and motorcycles? Side Note, as humans we also exhale carbon dioxide. CO2.
Trees 🌳 gets rid of/absorbes CO2!
This is why all automobiles have them and it's illegal to operate one without a catalytic converter.

[@jimtomstimpson1477]

Wow!