Credor : Is SEIKO Killing Their MOST Prestigious Watch Brand ??? My CRITICAL Opinion & Review

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  • Опубліковано 21 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 113

  • @Hiura73
    @Hiura73 9 місяців тому +5

    One way to think of Credor (and you'd have to live in Japan to get this) is that it is, as a company the Toyota Century. Sure, Lexus is considered the more luxurious brand. However, there is nothing....nothing made in Japan that is automotively above the Toyota Century. For those who know....know. The Century is simple sophistication and the type of man who rides in the back of a Toyota Century is very different than the guy in the back of a Rolls Royce. Foreigners will likely not understand this.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  9 місяців тому +1

      I definitely use the Toyota versus Lexus comparison. 😁

  • @Callmecarbo
    @Callmecarbo Рік тому +5

    I love my Credor’s. They make me feel special every time I wear them

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      Exactly 🙌🏼 I love being an undercover watch lover.

    • @thetruthhurts7500
      @thetruthhurts7500 4 місяці тому

      Looks and sounds like one of those cheap brands you see on Ali Express

  • @tcjohn38
    @tcjohn38 Рік тому +3

    Patrick, have you ever been to Tokyo? There’s a Seiko museum where you can learn about the history of the company. The museum offers free admission, just need to buy your plane ticket. Or you can take a virtual tour on the website.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      I was supposed to go there for my honeymoon… the virus that shall not be named canceled that. I didn’t know about the virtual tour though… I’ll check that out. I hope to make it there one day.

  • @chia-mingyang5804
    @chia-mingyang5804 Рік тому +4

    From my understanding, Credor is created for watches more focus on Japanese philosophies and aesthetics. They aren't meant to be premium only. Indeed their Masterpiece line is competing not just the best mainstream brands but even the top-tier independent barnds, however they also make simple daily watches for general Japanese populations. That doesn't affect my love to them at all. A great chef should be able to make not only beautiful and complicated cuisine but also simple home dishes, right?
    BTW, Eichi II has a porcelain dial, not enamel.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +2

      So true… I knew it was a porcelain dial. Whoops. 😅 I love your analogy about a chef and his cuisine… I agree Credor can and should make some simpler choices… I just wish they made a few more excellent or stand out choices.

  • @HRM.H
    @HRM.H Рік тому +6

    Ive hoped Credor (and King Seiko for that matter) would get a proper rebranding for a while. They can make such incredible stuff, but their marketing and availability/service-ablity is a issue. I hope Credor gets the same treatment as GS someday and gets some updated/modernized movements for the rest of the line up.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      Exactly 🙌🏼

    • @kiryukazuma7508
      @kiryukazuma7508 Рік тому +4

      It's by design. Seiko does not want to market Credor nor will they for practical reasons. You need to understand these watches are somewhat handmade and finished in limited numbers which makes them slow to roll off the production line, an increase in demand is not going to help them here.
      Secondly they wish only to sell JDM customers, most wealthy Japanese want that minimalist understated stealth wealth look and believe that simplicity is a beautiful artform. If you understand most Japanese companies they are notorious for gatekeeping, look at cars for example, they will sell boring safe cars to the international market but every desirable limited edition models are for JDM only. As funny as it sounds I don't think Credor cares about trying to position itself to make more money. I don't think they even lack sales.
      Lastly I believe Credor wishes to only make dress watches if we were to look at their range from 1970s to now. No need for funky complications which are totally redundant in todays day and age. Dress watches need to be simple, slim and small which adding lots of complications will defeat this very purpose. Keeping it simple will also mean servicing actually is far more accessible than you think it is. If we were to look at haute horology quiet brands such as phillipe dufour, laurent ferrier etc they all follow this philosophy.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      @kiryukazuma7508 great points 🙌🏼

  • @aDocandhisWatch
    @aDocandhisWatch Рік тому +3

    Great video!! Yes, looks like Credor’s best years are in the past which is a shame.. Complications is the way to go forward 👍🏻

  • @kojiattwood
    @kojiattwood Рік тому +2

    Arigatou for the very informative video! Was fortunate enough to pick up a GCBE993 Raden dial a while back for a very reasonable price and have adored it constantly ever since.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +2

      That’s a beautiful piece. Congrats 🎉 An advantage of the ambiguity of the brand is the prices are pretty reasonable.

  • @aadilahmed2614
    @aadilahmed2614 6 місяців тому +1

    I'm from India and I work for Grand seiko and credor and I do agree with your opinions on this topic 👍

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  6 місяців тому +1

      Excellent. I do think the GCLX997 is heading in the right direction.

  • @miken2076
    @miken2076 10 місяців тому +2

    Just saw this. I have been collecting Credors (and GS and Spring Drive) for over 10 years. I actually just recently acquired a GCLL997, so I was excited to see you have the same one (except you have the bracelet which I envy you for). I have always viewed Credor as a dress watch line that does not have to adhere to the GS design principles. So, for example, the lack of minute indexes is acceptable for Credor watches, but there are always minute marks on GS watches (or all that I've seen). I've always thought of the as more or less parallel lines as far as prices are concerned, just different design philosophies. One point, GS was late to the Spring Drive. The original Spring Drives were Seikos (a stainless steel sports watch with integrated bracelet SBWA001, and a solid gold Seiko SBWA002) and the Credor GBLG999. I don't believe GS marketed a Spring Drive until 2004. My first Spring Drive was the SNR001, that I bought around 2008/2009.
    The movement in the GCLL997 was shared among a number of Seikos. I own the Seiko Ananta (SNR023) in addition to the Credor. There was also a Seiko Spring Drive moonphase (SNR017). All share the movement 5R77, although the movement finishing is different on the Seikos.
    One last note. According to a friend of mine, you can have your watch refinished at Seiko Japan. He said it is a couple thousand. I think they can even do laser welding. This is separate from the light polish they give watches that are returned for service.
    If you're interested, I have much of my collection on Instagram as watchman_dc.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  10 місяців тому +1

      Congratulations on the pickup. 🎉 Check out some of my other videos… I have the GCLL999 too, the SBWA001, and the GBLG999. If you really want the bracelet… You can order it. It took almost 9 months to get - my GCLL999 came on the wrong bracelet and I wanted the original (even though I’ve been too lazy to actually put it on). Glad to hear from another true Seiko/Spring Drive fan. I’ll definitely follow your Instagram.

  • @HRM.H
    @HRM.H Рік тому +4

    Im very much onboard with your comment that Credor should be Seiko's innovation line. I would KILL for a microrotor or perpetual calender springdrive.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +3

      I hadn’t thought about a microrotor… That would be a great addition!

  • @HRM.H
    @HRM.H Рік тому +4

    You should check out a Credor/Seiko with the calibre 68 someday. Its their slimmest movement ever. I own a Seiko U.T.D. with the 3rd generation calibre 6810 movement. Its case is only 4.4mm thick!! I personally advice buying straight from Japan instead off chrono24. The pieces on Chrono24 are almost always reposted and marked up significantly.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      I’ve seen the UTD marking before but never knew what it stood for. 4.4mm is incredibly thin! I’ll check it out.

    • @HRM.H
      @HRM.H Рік тому

      ​@@PocketWatchTimeU.T.D. means Ultra Thin Dress. It was their line intended to compete with ultra thin pieces from Piaget and JLC

    • @MrJamesDuffy
      @MrJamesDuffy Рік тому +1

      I have a Seiko SCVL001 which was part of their 1990s revival of the 6810 movement. The 6800 movement family is still in Seiko's active parts catalog and has since moved to Credor, even undergoing several upgrades. Unfortunately under Credor, independent watchmakers/repair shops cannot order service parts directly from Seiko so if it needs new parts, it will have to be serviced by Seiko in Japan or one would have to find rare donor parts.

    • @HRM.H
      @HRM.H Рік тому +1

      ​​​​​​@@MrJamesDuffya true competent watchmaker can make all the parts required to maintain a 6810. It doesnt use any fancy Spron hairspring/mainsprings or any other proprietary alloys. So unless something like the diashock or the dogleg palletfork broke, a competent watchmaker should be able to service it locally. My local guy has recently overhauled my 6810, no issues.

    • @MrJamesDuffy
      @MrJamesDuffy Рік тому +1

      @@HRM.H I have had a local watchmaker service a 6810 and it was not a problem. However, I had another 6810 that had a broken tooth in the crown pinion and he could not order parts from Seiko because the movement moved under Credor. I would much rather have a Seiko service part than to have someone manufacture it, especially with the right tolerances of Seiko’s last ultra-thin movement in its active catalog.

  • @nailfarmer22
    @nailfarmer22 4 місяці тому +1

    Great analysis. One question: Why should Seiko make Credor the inovation brand in stead of Grand Seiko?

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  4 місяці тому +2

      Innovation could definitely happen with either brand. I think Credor works a little better just because it’s less known. Similar to Tudor being the innovation center for the Rolex brand.

  • @Al7anon266MV
    @Al7anon266MV 10 місяців тому +1

    I have question I saw there is pieces has double sign dial Seiko & Credor is that considerd as rare piece ? like with Patek Philipee & Tiffany and co ?

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  10 місяців тому +1

      Sadly, no. In the older days of Credor… Seiko didn’t really know what to do with the brand and sometimes marked it Seiko plus Credor… And sometimes just Credor.

  • @roaminggene2619
    @roaminggene2619 22 дні тому +1

    Also, Spring Drive has not been invented by Grand Seiko. It's always been a Seiko movement through and through. GS just piggybacked on it.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  22 дні тому +1

      @@roaminggene2619 that’s true. If I said that in the video… I misspoke. I actually own two of the first theee spring drives… One is Seiko and one is Credor. The third is a solid gold Seiko.

  • @relojeroschat
    @relojeroschat 11 місяців тому +1

    I like what they produce, they are for sure funkier than GS but I find most of GS boring on style. My question for you since you have experience with them.... how much discount do you think you can get on a watch from the current line-up. There are some listed online and in C24 the sellers give you the opportunity to suggest a price. How much below MRSP should I consider offering? I'm looking at their sporty (baby?) Eichis collection, the Kuons. Porcelain dial, nice looking case and bracelet, slim. Thank you!

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      That’s a great looking watch. I just recently saw those posted on C24 a couple months ago. Sadly, I don’t think you’ll get much of a discount. If they’re sold in Japan… A lot of Japanese sellers have that “suggest a price“ but it’s actually rude to their culture to discount. It doesn’t hurt to try… But I don’t think you’ll get it. 😁 (try 5-10%)

    • @relojeroschat
      @relojeroschat 11 місяців тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime I wasn't aware of the cultural rules of business. Still undecided but will try in the ballpark you recommended. Thanks! Btw, the patent for the Locomotive was filed again by Seiko on last Dec... so will see... Thanks again

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      @relojeroschat I didn’t know that. Do you think Seiko is going to make a new locomotive… Maybe for the hundredth anniversary? 🤩

    • @relojeroschat
      @relojeroschat 11 місяців тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime They are unpredictable but I like the fact that they are interested again in the model. Maybe the Kuon family with its integrated bracelet is their way to test the waters among collectors.

  • @RidaHallal
    @RidaHallal 11 місяців тому +1

    have you seen the GCLX999? lovely new addition to the lineup :)

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      I agree. Great addition and a good price point.

  • @drfathertime
    @drfathertime 11 місяців тому +2

    I really like Credor where they are at now, making watches that are "if you know, you know" kind of a deal. Also, I think Credor of the past, and current Credor are totally different, like, current lineup has gone to places where GS can't go, they are more of an artisan group doing whatever they wish to do instead of by the numbers approach of GS.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      I definitely like the “if you know, you know” factor of Credor 😁

    • @drfathertime
      @drfathertime 11 місяців тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime Yeah instead of doing Lexus version of Toyota corolla as they used to do. I mean I'm sure you have seen Eichi II, that thing is.... exquisite. Credor doesn't need hype of PP or AP or Rolex, they are that hipster brand that 99% WIS have never heard of, or seen, and that's exactly where I want them to be.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      @@drfathertime Eichi is beautiful. I saw a video of the artisan hand painting the dial… It took my breath away.

    • @drfathertime
      @drfathertime 11 місяців тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime same here man, that watch is basically my exit watch. The trouble is, both of versions are absolutely stunning! The funny thing is, official pics are doing dog crap work at showing how gorgeous they are, the dark blue version is as stunning as the white one. Choices choices! XDDDD

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +1

      @drfathertime the blue is stunning. But, I think the white dial does it for me just because it looks like classic enamel and I think it makes the blue paint pop just a little more. Tough choice indeed.

  • @borassictime918
    @borassictime918 Рік тому +1

    I must confess I know very little about Credor models. The Credor motif looks arabic to me. Those moon phases do look rather thick. 16mm? Perhaps that’s why they didn’t sell? The GBLG999 looks very, very nice - shame they felt the need to add Seiko to the dial though.
    Have to agree Seiko is not making enough of Credor. It feels almost forgotten. Maybe they should do a colab with Swatch 😉? But seriously, I agree Seiko should use it as the halo brand to showcase its finest tech and actually promote it.
    Thanks for sharing Patrick 👍

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +2

      Thank you. 🙌🏻 I also wish that model didn’t have the dual branding… But that’s what’s confusing about the brand.
      Fingers crossed Seiko gives Credor a little bit more love and maybe some tech. I’ll quit the brand if they do a Swatch colab. 😂

    • @borassictime918
      @borassictime918 Рік тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime I think I’d give the hobby up if Credor, or heaven forbid GS, actually did a colab with Swatch 🥴😂

  • @wertj3977
    @wertj3977 10 місяців тому +1

    The new GCLX999 and Gold Feathers are showing that Credor is going places. The GCLX999, to me, is a more interesting watch than any of Grand Seiko's SBGY lineup due to it's integrated bracelet, extremely elegant case design and finishing, porcelain dial, and unique refinishing of the 9r31 caliber. It makes me wonder why Grand Seiko can't incorporate more elaborate refinishing of the 9r31, especially for their absurdly priced precious metal models. I hope the GCLX999 gets a leather strap attachment and who knows, maybe Credor will use more casual strap materials as they market as an everyday watch.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  10 місяців тому +1

      You’re so right… That new GCLX999 is wonderful. What an upgrade from the recent Credor releases and definitely the recent Grand Seiko releases. I hope they make a version with a blue dial - I might buy that one.
      You’re absolutely right about another point too… Why is Grand Seiko charging so much for a similar or actually less fancy design and finishing.

    • @wertj3977
      @wertj3977 10 місяців тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime I think it's because Grand Seiko is slowly becoming a brand name, which Credor aside, still offers immense value. The GCLX has far more intricate case design and finishing, however I also wouldn't say the 7r31 is better finished than a 9r31, it's simply different (It's not just the wave pattern, notice how the countersinks of the screws and jewels are no longer circular!). But the fact that the manufacturer has these capabilities and refuses to do anything interesting in Grand Seiko is what infuriates me! At least try engraving that mainspring barrel!

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  10 місяців тому +1

      @wertj3977 That infuriates me too. The mainspring barrel is so boring. 🥱 😠

  • @roaminggene2619
    @roaminggene2619 22 дні тому +1

    Credor is not a company, it is a brand. Everything is made by Seiko ultimately.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  22 дні тому +1

      @@roaminggene2619 by that logic… Seiko is not a company, it is a brand. Seiko-Epson makes them ultimately.

  • @markwolfson2023
    @markwolfson2023 Рік тому +1

    The only one it seems buying these dress watches are Seiko executives. A rebranding of both Credor and King Seiko would help, in a very competitive, flooded market.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      Agreed 🙌🏻

    • @kiryukazuma7508
      @kiryukazuma7508 Рік тому +1

      Plenty of rich old money types in Asia that buy Credor. Mostly Japanese, Taiwanese and Hong Kong clients.

  • @juniorjohnson5961
    @juniorjohnson5961 Рік тому +1

    Great collection of Credor 👍 Didn't get up till 8:30 😪

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      I was driving into work at 8:00 😁… I was live for the premiere. The late bird misses the worm (just made up that bad analogy 😂)

    • @juniorjohnson5961
      @juniorjohnson5961 Рік тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime It must be hard being a Lumberjack 🪓

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      @@juniorjohnson5961 I need more plaid in my life

    • @juniorjohnson5961
      @juniorjohnson5961 Рік тому +1

      @@PocketWatchTime Start with the pants 👖

  • @OPMDK
    @OPMDK 10 місяців тому +1

    As inCredor is being positioned where Jd is going to follow the current trend of wealth build up in the millionaire world while GS is handling the “luxury” mass-market. You want lost brand look at Campanola, talk about lost. Seiko’s loss at a macro business level is that they live atop one of their coveted mountains and never come down.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  10 місяців тому +1

      So right - Campanola was amazing and now gone and forgotten.

  • @L.A.C_Santos
    @L.A.C_Santos Рік тому +1

    Mmmm.. I like many credors. They do have spring drives, automatics, perpetual, skeletons, quartz, and they have some amazing designs. They do have awesome complications. Of course some of the models are kind of old looking and corny, but some are fabulous and modern, but always very refined. I think you are being a little unfair.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      I know I’m being a little harsh. Credor has such potential. I just don’t think they’re using it to its full potential. I’m a huge fan of spring drive. Skeletonized isn’t so fancy in my book. And are you sure they make a perpetual calendar?… I’ve never seen a Credor perpetual.

  • @richardr2555
    @richardr2555 2 місяці тому +1

    You were pronouncing it H2 but it is H-EE 2. The i is pronounced as EE.

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  2 місяці тому +2

      Thanks. I can use all the pronunciation help I can get. You better not watch any of my videos on French names. 😬

  • @neel3297
    @neel3297 Рік тому +2

    Seiko is unaware of their direction

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +1

      I agree. I will give Seiko credit though… They don’t keep churning over the same Royal Oak over and over again like AP.

  • @jchong416
    @jchong416 11 місяців тому +2

    Credor makes a lot of shitters but some absolutely sublime pieces as well

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  11 місяців тому +2

      There’s definitely a very wide range. Thanks for watching. 🙌🏼

  • @aadilahmed2614
    @aadilahmed2614 6 місяців тому +1

    I do agree with you sir,
    I work for exclusive grand seikoboutique

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  6 місяців тому +1

      I wish it wasn’t so. I love the brand.

  • @thomasa.243
    @thomasa.243 Рік тому +4

    The Seiko (Epson) Company is as confusing as it can be. You never really know which brand belongs to which division and who is actually in charge. And this also is true for Credor. I actually have the feeling they are confused themselves 🤣. And they are also confused with their regional subdivisions. I actually have a very minor problem with a Grand Seiko watch (Lume is missing on one index) and nobody is able to help me. "This watch was not to be sold in your region." Yeah, but I bought it. "We can't get the replacement parts here. Send it to Japan." 🥴

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  Рік тому +3

      That’s a crazy story! For one… I’m shocked that Grand Seiko missed that as a QC issue. But second… I can’t believe they couldn’t send you a simple replacement part without having to ship it across the world.

    • @thomasa.243
      @thomasa.243 Рік тому +2

      @@PocketWatchTime I mean, it happens that sometimes something slips through. But then getting told that the only real solution is to send it to Japan myself is... Well... First of all, shipment will be prohibitively expensive. And also, I have to pay import taxes when it comes back. Adding all costs, it may be cheaper just buying the same watch again since it was one of the "entry level" Grand Seikos :/

    • @olivier-pierredebelmont.3630
      @olivier-pierredebelmont.3630 11 місяців тому

      Send it to Japan.

    • @thomasa.243
      @thomasa.243 11 місяців тому +1

      @@olivier-pierredebelmont.3630 Well, yes, I could. But, I have the risk if something gets lost during transit. And additionally, I have to pay import taxes (20% on total value) when this watch comes back to me. In the end, this would be more expensive than buying it again 🫠

    • @olivier-pierredebelmont.3630
      @olivier-pierredebelmont.3630 11 місяців тому +1

      @@thomasa.243 Ah ,yes,sorry,I forget the import duty....
      I can not understand why Seiko shops are not servicing you as a good client.
      If you have time,you can write a letter or send a mail at the top Seiko and affiliates management,just to see if they follow suite.
      If not,they don't deserve our clientele.
      Have a nice week Thomas.😆

  • @taoprsn
    @taoprsn 4 місяці тому +1

    only have a credor 5a74-5000

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  4 місяці тому +2

      That’s a great classic Credor dress watch. Congrats.

  • @thetruthhurts7500
    @thetruthhurts7500 4 місяці тому +1

    Looks and sounds like one of those cheap brands you see on Ali Express

    • @PocketWatchTime
      @PocketWatchTime  4 місяці тому +1

      That’s the problem - some pieces are true high horology and others look cheap. Tough sell for a brand.