DRIVER SHAFT FLEX - Does It Matter?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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In this video I test out to see if the flex on your driver shaft actually matters. I hit my current x-stiff shaft and compare it to a stiff, regular, and senior flex. The results were really surprising! If you enjoyed the video make sure to leave a like and subscribe!
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My name is Michael Mitnick and welcome to That Golf Grind. I started this account to feature everything about the game of golf. You will find golf tips, golf instruction, on course golf vlogs, and other things you didn't even realize relate to the game of golf!
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What kind of shaft do you play in your driver?
I was custom fit last year 2 times at 2ndSwing in Delaware with my 2016 M2. First was a hzdrs smoke yellow 5.5 then lastly a Small Batch Evenflow Riptide CB 6.0. I got 6 yards more carry with the riptide. Avg. smash 1.49. Love it. Maybe next year I’ll compare it to Rouge ST LS Or TSR.
Extra stiff but cant hit it 345 like you! So jealous.. probably 315 ish.
Mitsubishi av white xstiff😎
@@mrdudelove1 yessir 🙌
I play with an Aldila Rouge 60gm regular flex. I really believe that shaft flex is solely a matter of feel and spin. I like feeling the shaft load in my transition, some players don't.
Interesting results. The Regular shaft was offline more often than any other shaft with three shots more than 50 yards offline. But your X-Stiff shaft had 3 shots offline by 41 yards or more, where as the Stiff shaft was less than 13 yards offline on 3 of the 5 shots. Your stiff shaft was only 8 yards shorter in Carry distance and only 7 yards shorter overall. I think I'd give up that half-a-club difference on the approach shot and keep it in the fairway more often.
He's not a robot.
I totally agree. The shaft flex is about your swing speed. The only people that should use an x stiff are guys swinging about 110mph. Most golfers fall into the Regular flex. Without knowing his swing speed and looking at the numbers, It sure looks like stuff flex is best for him
Long drive champ sometimes they use 45 grams and regular shaft and they smoke that ball
Went through 3 Stealth+ heads with the same issue. First one exploded after less than 50 balls on the range. After the next two, ended up getting my money back and getting the TSR4 - zero regrets!
Wow that’s crazy!
I really had to watch this video till the end because I recently did the same thing. I made up 4 shafts from senior to x stiff. I use the Cobra LTDX 9 degree head. My ball speed is about 20-25 mph slower than your 180 mph.. When I got fitted for the new driver, they put me in a stiff shaft. The fitter sad I was in between stiff and x stiff. I liked the stiff better. Plus, I'm getting old. 67! I was not convinced that the shaft I got fitted was for me. Turns out I like the senior flex shaft best. I have more of a Freddy Couples tempo swing. My club head speed on the course is 101-104 mph. On a launch monitor, I am usually getting about 150-160 mph ball speed. I just like the feel of the senior shaft better. Feels like I have to do less work to get same results.
Realized after playing 25 years of golf.... YES, Shafts Matter! But, flex will be different from one person to another even if they swing at the same speed.
Living in a place where its impossible to demo before you buy, so we go on standards that are fixed, ladies/ sr flex for slow swings, regular for medium (90-100 mph) , stiff and extra stiff for faster swings. I followed these principals for most of my life. Until a senior gentleman asked me to try his Inesis 500 with a recoil F1 shaft ( ladies flex) with a 12 degree head.
I swing at 105-107 MPH, I had the maverick and a couple of Titleist 917 d2 and d1 with some high end Stiff shafts , Would get 250-260 , keeping 40% on the fairway. My misses were both left and right.
Hit the inesis driver, 3 shots with excellent results.
I don't judge ever from one session. 3 sessions over 2 weeks is what I try and judge by. I borrowed his driver. Had long chats with a fitter that how am I not hitting left any more, my miss is a slight fade , ball flight is a little high, carry is 260y with very little roll, dead straight.
Bought two similar drivers with same shafts. Also an Epic on eBay with same shaft and a pull out recoil F2 shaft. Managed to get it to India.
Long story short. Sold my drivers, have two inesis with ladies flex shaft and an epic with a senior flex, still swing at 105 mph, average carry distance is 260, been hitting 275- 285 and dead straight.
My take on the shaft world is, go try with an OPEN mind, try all flexes you will be surprised what might fit you!
My biggest concern with the Stealth driver was durability. I use a driver for several years (or until I find one that feels significantly better - I currently play a MAVRIK Sub Zero), so having the driver last is a priority. I must admit, I didn't think that the carbon face would fly off, I thought it would just break down over time/use.
For sure. Was definitely a surprise for me. They are replacing it for me though. Good customer service
I swing at 109-115 and I was having a problem getting the ball in the air. I switched from x-stiff to a R and it worked! My ball flight got in the 12-13 launch angle and my distance increased substantially. My original shaft was X-stiff Haz Smoke I switched to the Fugi- Motore FX3. Witch I believe is the best. Supposedly it’s stiff on the ends and reg in the middle. What ever it is it’s amazing!
Flex point matters for a lot of golfers. It’s a feel thing and tempo. How you swing and deliver the club changes based on where the club flex’s the most.
What weight did you shift to?
@@padyakerongbula 70g
Video summary for total yards:
X-Stiff = 345
Stiff = 339
Regular = 329
Senior = 337
Only a 16 yard difference from longest to shortest. The top three are only separated by 8(!) yards.
The guy in the video says the difference in yardage could be a big deal on the course. Maybe if you’re a pro. For the average golfer? I doubt it. Probably not worth spending money to switch shafts unless you’re playing for a living. Just use the shafts that came with your clubs. Take the money you saved and play more golf! :)
This only shows distance variations between different flexes of the same shaft. Other versions or brands of shafts can provide more yardage differences, but also better ball flights and better dispersion.
Hope you got your head issue taken care of! This was a really interesting video, but I usually dig a bit deeper into the numbers before drawing conclusions and, I'd say based on the standard deviations in each measurement and the fairly low sample sizes for each, that there wasn't really much difference in the data for all the shafts.
The shaft is about feel, nothing else. Flex or profile won't make really any difference on ball flight, spin, or dispersion. Strike is king and shaft flex/weight/profile is about your feel to deliver a better strike. Put any shaft on a swing robot and the results come out the same regardless of shaft. R&A did a huge test on this years ago.
yep, so true. People's perception can be easily distorted. Example, I FEEL better using X-shaft but my strike is worse compare to using S-shaft.
i’ve heard this is a common problem. and kudos to TM for replacing it no questions asked but when this driver first came out i wondered if there would be issues with durability. that’s why i bought the callaway rogue max this year
For sure. Was definitely surprised when mine broke but they are handing it great replacing it
Would have been a better comparison, if you had used the same shaft brand. The stiffness profiles between different companies are not the same. There is no industry standard. Just my opinion. Great video
Thanks man appreciate it!
I'm not claiming to be an expert but if I were you I'd switch to whatever the Stiff shaft was and use that going forward. Dispersion was great and only tiny less distance. Also, different shafts have different flex point stiffness which could account for the regular not working as well as the senior.
Not a very reassuring ad for the durability of the Stealth driver, is it?
🤣
Exactly, I question the QC and R&D team at TM. I had M2 irons that the plastic dampening pieces in the faces on several irons started coming out, I've since learned this is very common on those irons. Got rid of them.
Haha yeah… they are replacing it for me though. No issues there
@@thatgolfgrind Good to hear. TM Customer Service is top notch. Excellent video by the way. Great content and info.
Makes me wonder about carbon face drivers. Maybe there’s a reason Titleist never went there yet.
As someone who started golfing this year, i bought a set labeled as a beginner set, The Cobra fly xl which comes with senior shafts i learned quickly that they wouldn't work for me. Swing speed about 115-120 on a driver I've gained over twenty yards as well as better accuracy on my driver after getting fitted for X Stiff shafts. Waiting on the rest of my clubs to come as only the driver is here so far.
They don’t come with senior. They come with uniflex
An English Longbow required a lifetime of practice to use effectively as a normal person couldnt even draw it fully. A weaker bow would give the regular person a longer effective range.
A shaft under flex is kind of like a Bow loading energy. The softer flex shafts make it easier to load the "bow" which is why wimpier swings need more flex right? The other principal in physics is the amount of torque a shaft will twist is higher in shafts with more flex. That means under hard acceleration the effects of errors in timing are amplified and you tend to spray the shots more.
So as things go a stiffer shaft sacrifices some distance for the sake of accuracy, but improvements in accuracy also help the shot go on a more direct path to the target which is also an effect of distance ie. the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
I had a hunch I knew what happened when you hit that confusing weak slice as that’s happened to me with the only 2 stealth heads I’ve ever hit. The second one (stealth 2 +) lasted roughly 150 swings from new. 8 whole days. Average head speed of only 108. What were they thinking launching that thing. What a disaster. It’s like they didn’t test it even a little bit. Went from a taylormade guy to an anything but guy very fast. Wouldn’t even consider spending money on the qi10. Liking the content, thanks for the shaft comparison. Spin results were somewhat shocking.
Sorry about the driver head! This is so frustrating. Great video. I’ve always played a TX shaft but should probably try other shafts based on your numbers. Thanks!
After the first set you looked at the numbers and the amount of spin was around 2,300 which you said was a little steep,What number are you typically looking for because 2,300 seems ideal given your Ball Speed etc? Great Video by the way
Ideally looking for 2000-2300. I was just surprised that the lighter more whippy shaft actually produced less spin
It’s true that the flex does make a small difference albeit this could be easily overcome by the quality of strike! I’d be interested to know the price of each shaft used. Are we paying higher prices for stiffer shafts but getting minimal gains in yards - assuming we all hit the ball straight?
Titleist is the hands down best in class for ‘23.
You have a pretty smooth transition as well. Add someone in the test with a very harsh load and transition and id bet the differences will be magnified so much.
I had a regular stiff shaft and I kept hitting it left with bad hooks. Switched to stiff flex and it’s now straight or a small draw loving my driver now.
Great video. Now, do a repeat but use a senior / slower swinger repeat this test.
That’s a good idea!
I volunteer for the slow swinger ;)
Melin hats are the best! Good information on shafts
Was your swing speed the same with each shaft ? The shafts must have changed something as a shaft wont really change ball speed. Did smash factor change ?
I've heard that problem is pretty rampant with the stealth drivers, sorry that happened to ya buddy
Yoi are so worried about yardage but the Stiff game you way more tight grouping so means more fairways.
What you should do is test all again and adapt your swing to show 5-10mph up and down swing speed and see what's more accurate overall. So swing 80-90%, 100% and 105-110% to see which ones dispersion is tighter. That's the biggest test cause nobody can swing exact same speed everytime especially when trying to hit tight fw and let off a bit or go long and have some adrenaline.
So try the X-stiff and Stiff side by side on those speeds to see which one stays straighter through all speeds
I have been playing golf since 1994 and in that time I have only had one driver face break on me. It was a Taylormade of course. That being said, they replaced it for me no questions asked.
Definitely great customer service
So is the stealth a carbon face glued to titanium? That was very strange
I see stiff & regular are same model but the test need to be with same model for all… shaft characteristic are a lot different if it’s not the same model…in my opinion..
I'm curious to know which set up hit the ball straightest to target.
I swing around 105 and prefer a R shaft. My 2 i-crossover is in stiff (the x-stiff didn’t feel right)
Well I think we determined that there's very little difference between shafts within reason and using such a small sample. Probably dispersion may have been looked at a little closer? However we did determine nobody watching this video is buying a TM Stealth anytime soon.....
Stiff and senior got you closest to the pin by a decent amount , id be interested to know how long a break you had after the breakage as your first two regular hits were bang on before the break , i would also like to know the weight differences , it would be really interesting if you were to counterbalance each shaft to match swingweights .
I bet you still game an x stiff despite the evidence .
I bet you would drop shots by using a senior flex just through the effort an energy savings over 18 holes .
But no big boys gonna game a grandpa flex is he ?
Not a very good comparison since it does not include players with the appropriate swing speeds for the recommended shaft flexes.
I really like how your back swing comes to rest at the same position every swing.
Flex to me doesn’t really matter because it’s about how much or how less you want to feel the swing. It’s all about feel. I know guys that have 90 mph SS and some use regular, stiff and even x in their drivers because it’s all about feel and what you want the ball to do. Weight is more important
Is this recommended for beginners? I just bought some TaylorMade Qi irons, and added the blue TR graphites. Wasn’t really sure what the difference was between steel and the graphite shafts, is one more forgiving than the other? What would be more preferred for a newer golfer still learning his swing.
Graphite is more forgiving, as far as vibration goes. I went with graphite due to arthritis.
People use stiff shafts because they think it is manly. The pro-long drivers use flexible shafts in order to get a kick.
You showed the dispersement of xstiff..but not the rest?looks like you need to retake I was interested in that part the most as am a senior golfer now
My wife always suggests I put the stiff shaft in. It’s got just the right amount of flex to drive those balls just outside the hole.
Geeze that sucks when the face went flying off ! There were a few super low spinning shots. 875 rpm with the senior shaft and two shots with the regular shaft that were around 1,000 to 1,300 rpm’s. Think you should’ve deleted them. A sample of 5 good shots each shaft should be good enough.
Yeah my Stealth breaking was definitely a bummer. They are going to replace it though. There were a couple of wayward shots for sure.
Torque is Factor as not just flex. And I'm pretty sure that your stock shaft that you play the x is a tip shaft
Nice video! Yourself more consistent with a stiff vs xstiff
It matters for the fast and good players and the slow and not so accurate players. But for most of us somewhere in between, spend your money and time on practice will have a much better result than replacing a driver or a shaft.
What would it be with all 4 shafts with slower swing speeds. Say 80-90?
It matters what your swing speeed is. A senior shaft is for 80 or less swing speed
Do all the shafts have the same kickpoint or tip stiffness and grip
I've tried hitting clubs with senior or lady flex before just for fun and they always seem to go high right for me. My driver swing speed is 100 give or take. Stiff works good for me. Sorry about the broken driver! You gotta lay off the juice!🤣
I may be wrong, but I think these shaft weight, length, or flex tests should be done by a, say, 15-18 hcp player. Most people watching this type of content fall in this category.
Just get fitted because this guy crushes the ball he’s obviously a stiff shaft like 70 plus gram shaft. Most people just want and need more accuracy to find fairways to score. Get fitted and make the game a little easier. If it’s too stiff should come out right and low now they have gram shaft so 50 gram is for old men creates a lot of flex on impact causing the ball to spin and create bad shots. 60 gram on up is for the faster swing speeds
WOW, WTF happened to the driver head??????????
Many golfers are more knowledgeable about shafts than they used to be and realise that Flex is only one of the factors that should be considered. Weight, torque and bend profile are just as or possibly more important than the shafts' "flex". Personally, the shaft's weight is a key factor, too light or too heavy and my dispersion is adversely affected. Also, the shaft's kick point can be key to hitting the optimum flight window.
For sure! The science behind the shaft is pretty neat if you look into it
which is why I was told to stay away from that head....
besides your head issues, long ball hitters don't use stiff.
The Melin cap will for sure, definitely sweat and leave a ring. You can wash it, but don't kid yourself in saying it will not leave a ring. Also, they are very heavy.
Great video idea!
Any advice on getting your club speed so high? I do the weighted training but still can’t seem to get much over 100mph
Use the ground during your swing. Pushing off the ground with your legs combined with rotation is where you get the speed
I suggest that you watch his swing in slow motion (click the gear icon at bottom, choose .25 speed) and stop it at different points. He puts several key elements together. Starting at 1:28 Takes the club back wide. Left arm firm. Huge shoulder turn (more than 90*) with some hip rotation (less flexible people will lift their left heal up about 1 inch to achieve this). Good weight transfer without moving his center off the ball, as he starts the downswing. At 1:29 you can see the lag he has developed (right elbow tucked close to his ribs) which he releases late as he pushes off the ground. Strength is nice to have, but flexibility, co-ordination, and sound swing mechanics are the key to long drives. This guy has it all.
@@johndeschepperii5206 Thanks man! Appreciate it!
@@johndeschepperii5206 thanks for the break down! I will definitely check this out!
If you are going for more flex in the shaft you need lighter swing weight also
If you're using a completely different shaft that's an independent variable. Each shaft is going to have unique composition. Did you nominalize anything other than the head? This comparison of stiffness holds zero weight.
That is absolutely a known problem with the stealth.
That’s is what I’ve heard
@@thatgolfgrind Nothing like R&D not ready for prime time! Stealth is not so stealthy when this video starts ranking on Google.
@@JohnnyDSR haha
Dude, if your hitting 345 yard average drives next stop PGA, shafts are about proper fitting for all parameters to get maximum results, today's shafts are much better at controlling the spin
I wish man. For me it’s between my ears that gets me. The shaft is definitely an under-talked about aspect
If your swing speed is over 95-100 mph and you have a good swing plane you could probably hit any type of shaft made and still get good results. try putting a x stiff flex in the hands of a 80 mph swinger and see what happens.
I wish you had used the same bread of shafts in different flex.
It appears that there is not much difference in the flex in this example. Thanks
Have your grandfather run this test. That would help me more.
Good video the conclusion seems to be the shafts mean very little according to the numbers.
Depending on the person swinging it. If you have a very slow swing speed you want more whip to generate a bit more speed. There was for sure a difference even with a higher swing speed. The main issue would be consistency over a longer time period with a regular or senior flex.
Shafts don't change the spin, they change where on the face you hit the ball, which in turn changes the spin and launch.
It definitely matters if you're a senior! The faster the swing, the stiffer the shaft you need along with the proper ball. Actually, when testing any piece of equipment, it can't be done by a human because there are too many variables involved. Swing speed & quality of strike being the 2 most important. Everything must be the same for every test & that's nearly impossible for a human. Iron Byron or a newer technology for testing for accuracy.
Not convinced by your assertion that you need a stiffer shaft if you swing fast. You can swing very fast but are you hitting on line? If you have a softer shaft and swing slightly slower you’d probably hit straighter shots thus minimising any perceived loss of distance. Use your brain not your braun is my mantra - I’m 70 and can still score better than my younger playing partners by keeping drives in the fairway.
@@bjm1711 No need to be convinced. It's just the general rule for choosing flex. If you have a faster swing & use a too soft shaft, there will be too much flex to keep up with your speed & also depends on the ball you play. A fast swinger should be playing with a harder ball just as slow swingers should be using a softer ball that's easier to compress for more distance. Every swing is different but those are just the general ideas for amateurs. Obviously, your opinion differs. Talk to a fitter or a teaching pro, unless you are one, & see what they say.
When you hit the ball it sounds like a shotgun going off..lol. Nice swing.
Did you use the same shaft with various flexes?
I’ve had 2 friends break a stealth driver. Both was replaced!
Yes and no, unless you are very lucky it’s unlikely a stock shaft will be a good fit. Getting custom fit for all your graphite shafted clubs can take multiple shots off your score.
I’m lucky my regular stock shaft is good enough but I know I could be longer and as consistent with a properly fitted shaft.
😂 same thing happened to me with the stealth 2 head
Thats a common problem with the 1st gen TM Stealth drivers.
welcome to taylormade lol thats why i went to the TSR 3
Why is nobody talking about this man’s freakish distance??? He hits it farther than almost every tour pro😅
Why not use the same shaft and just changes flexes, probably a better test since flex is so subjective?
Remember Bryson DeChambeau plays AT LONG DRIVE with over 225mph ball speed..... softer than regular flex, so, learn to control the club, flex is your friend.
DARN IT i just bought a stealth after breaking my cobra, now im scared i made a mistake 😭
This is a confusing topic since there's other "UA-cam golfers" that have done BLIND TESTS on shafts and found that there is so little difference in numbers that damn nead nobody would notice the difference.
Rick shiels did this test. The flex was covered so he didn't know which he was hitting. The results, all shafts were about the same. No carbon fiber driver is going on my bag.
Taylor Made must love you !
I've seen others do this test. From what I've observed, shafts are way over rated.
I play stiff flex, but I can hit anything.
My stealth face completely came off and the face parts completely separated
Yes shafts do matter 🤯🤯🤯
Would have never expected anything over 310 really.
Next time do the same weight with various stiffness. IMO the shaft is more anti,in device for accuracy.
All the shafts need to be exactly the same model in order for this to be an accurate comparison.
Regular shafts break driver heads...you didn't thow that?
all the same swingweight?
5 shots is really not enough to compare these shaft. i would say 20-25 shot for each and remove the 5 worst for each
I mean, the shafts aren’t apples to apples comparisons. Venus is different than HZRDUS, and so on and so forth…
Man is getting 325 CARRY ?!?!?!
If u can u should try steel
I hope you got a new driver
The stealth broke!? Who would have thought……..?
Second video I've seen with a broken Stealth head.
It just broke, or it literally just broke?
The good things is that Taylormade gots a good warranty lol
Should have used the same shaft due to flex differences, those are fragile heads
An that’s a $1000 driver here in Aus 😮
How a Pro hits each of those shafts is totally different to how a low handicap or hacker would hit them so this really doesn't tell us much.