Fully Lakota, Fully Catholic: Nicholas Black Elk (w/ Jon M. Sweeney)
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
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In honor of Native American heritage month, I'm bringing you the first of two interviews on Christianity in Native American communities. This first video is another installment in our series, "Christians You Should Know," and in it I'm joined by Jon Sweeney, author of over 40 books, including a recent book on Nicholas Black Elk. By examining the life of Nicholas Black Elk, we're able to explore questions about the legacy of Christian interaction with Native Americans as well as what contextualization looks like. Bishop Robert Barron has referred to Nicholas Black Elk as an example par excellence of what a catechist should be. In his life, we see someone who is fully Native American and fully Catholic at the same time. Stick around until the end for a discussion on Nicholas Black Elk's cause for canonization in the Catholic Church.
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Hey! My name is Austin, and I'm a 22 year old guy who’s passionate about the beautiful simplicity and transformative power of the gospel. I believe that the gospel, the good news about Jesus, is really good news, and I’m out to explore, unpack, and share that good news with as many people as possible. I'm a full blown Bible and Church History nerd that loves getting to dialogue with others about this, learning as much as I can, and then teaching whatever I can. I grew up around Frederick, MD where I eventually ended up working my first job at a church. They made the mistake of letting me try my hand at teaching, and instantly I fell in love. That set me on a path for further education, and I'm currently a student at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, IL, studying theology. On any given day you can find me with my nose in a book or a guitar in my hands. Want to get to know me more? Follow me and say hi on Instagram at: @austin.suggs
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I've been wanting Catholics to speak about honest saints from minority communities for a long time.
I did not expect a Protestant to research this topic. YOU'RE ON FIRE, AUSTIN.
If I may add, consider researching other lesser-known Catholics, such as slave-turned-priest Fr. Augustus Tolton or military chaplain Fr. Capodanno.
God love you.
My best friend of 50 years the late Jean Black Elk👘 was the great~ great granddaughter of 🧥Nicolas Black Elk. She has crossed over the Rainbow 🌈 Bridge and now lives amongst the Stars ✨ with her Ancestors.
Black Elk Speaks is one of the greatest book I have ever read, and it has definitely influenced my conversion to Catholicism
Hi Austin, Thanks much for this interview. I have long been interested in Black Elk, indeed the whole history of Native Americans. I was very pleased to hear of a new book and will order it today. It is published by Liturgical Press at $16.95. (A paperbound volume). As regards the Catholic Indians, they tell the story that, after the Battle of the Little Big Horn, the one soldier whose body was not mutilated was that of the Irish-born Capt. Myles Keogh. It was the custom of many tribes to mutilate the bodies to guarantee against the dead enemy coming back to seek revenge. Supposedly, the Catholic Indians did not mutilate Keogh because, when they tore open his uniform, they saw an Agnus Dei medal that was given to him by the Pope in recognition of his service in the papal army. There's so much more that one could say about the Irish-Indian connections, especially the gift made to the starving Irish in the famine by the destitute Choctaws. Today in Ireland there is a monument to that act of generosity. When the president of Ireland visits the States, they always go to the Choctaw nation to express Ireland's thanks. The former archbishop of Philadelphia, Charles Chaput's mother was a Potawatomi. There are many channels of grace. Thanks again.
I had the privilege of knowing one of Nicholas Black Elk's students. Both teacher and student were remarkable people.
This is so needed. Many natives I know have a deep emotional issue with the "western man's religion". Much of it is our fault, healing and outreach is necessary.
True but the Church may have the pope based in Rome but it dis not originate in the West
@@nenabunena I'm aware, hence the quotation marks.
My grandfather (born in the late 1800s) was influenced by Catholic Navajos. Their spirituality affected how he looked on his faith.
I been waiting for this video and so happy that you cover this. God bless you.
Hope you enjoyed it!
Thank you for touching on this. And I see the Black Saints in Catholicism upcoming as well. Don’t forget for about The Black Church, specially the Protestant traditions which has shaped so much in American history and I would say world history as well.
THANK YOU! And God bless our Native sisters and brothers!
Love this! I need to learn more about my Catholic faith. There's so much to learn 🥰❤
Austin thank you so much for this video. I learn so much from your catholic guests .
We just hiked the trail named for him in SD! So beautiful!!
We didn't know the story until after- we were saying the Rosary on the way up and when we got to the top there was a swarm of ladybugs everywhere!!
I just recently learned they symbolize Our Lady!
So amazing!!
He loved the Rosary. He would measure walking distances by how many rosaries one could pray on the way to the destination.
@@AngelaSealana Fascinating! 🤗
A lot of Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Jewish, etc are Catholics but they also belong to their own culture and traditions.
It’s the same thing for Orthodox, but there seems to be a double standard that criticizes Orthodox for belonging to their own unique cultures while saying nothing of Catholics who do the same. I mean, it’s what you’d expect from any truly _catholic_ faith-whether Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic.
@@nuzzi6620 i think because with Catholics, despite belonging to your own long standing cultural traditions and values, you are still expected and taught to believe in Catholic teaching. The dogmas and doctrines don't change just because you belong to a specific cultural tradition. So abortion, divorce, contraceptives are all still a no no regardless if you're vietnamese, african, jewish, or filipino Catholic. But for example filipino catholics tend to not follow the no meat on friday because they generally already eat a lot of seafood and vegetables with no meat weekly so the discipline doesn't have the same effect as a westerner who only ever eats meat and hates seafood or vegetables.
@@nuzzi6620 the problem with the various Orthodox Churches is exactly that, they are often not intercomunitory and Often hostile towards outsiders who are of a different cultural background. Even those from other orthodox cultures.
How can you be jewish and catholic pls think
@@tabiripetrovich517 Peter to start with.
A video on the Orthodox evangelism to the Alaskan natives would be very cool. Lots of incredible history including but not limited to St. Herman, St. Juvenaly, St. Innocent, and St. Peter the Aleut.
I'd love to do a video on that subject!
Jon Sweeney has forgotten that Saul (Paul) was responsible for the death of a few early followers of the Way, and his 'conversion' to being a missionary and work led to his automatic universal 'canonisation'. So (Servant of God) Nicholas Black Elk's pre-conversion life would not impede his path to canonisation if his life of virtue after his conversion can be well attested.
St. Mary of Egypt, St. Constantine, St. Moses the Black, St. Augustine, St. Fulvianus/Matthew, prince of Ethiopia, St. Olga of Kiev, St. Dismas (The Penitent Thief), and St. Longinus (The Centurion) to name a few. We are called to repentance. There are many saints in the history of the Church that repented and achieved theosis.
Interesting point! Though I suppose it was a bit more indirect in Saul's case. Nevertheless, Sweeney does clarify that he doesn't think this would be an impediment later on in the interview
@@GospelSimplicity True, but what the New Testament does not say does not preclude how 'murderous' Saul was in his endeavours. Besides, as we know even in these days, weren't those who gathered the Jews into trains and sent them to their deaths not culpable too?
¡Great Bio!
11:00 Not all Christians believed Indians to be unfit to exist. Spanish Catholic kingdom acknowledged natives as "free vassals" meaning free owners of the land, as early as the 16th century.
I'd recommend HANKE, Lewis "The Spanish struggle for justice in the conquest of America"
also LUMMIS, Charles F. "The Spanish explorers"
26:00 - mentioned bull was before discovery of America in 1492. Spanish Queen Isabella I abolished Indigenous slavery in 1501 in the Spanish territory. It endured as a form of forced labor however, laws were enforced and Indian slave trade was banned. Columbus was the first one being prosecuted for it.
Thank you gentlemen a very interesting talk. I've never heard of Black Elk. St Paul is a Saint who I think about who killed people perhaps 100s until his great conversion to become zealous for our God. God bless you both. You choose some very interesting people Austin. Thank you.
❤ this talk especially how you both talk about Catholics
In honor of St. Nektarios of Aegina, whose feast is approaching on the Old Calendar (we celebrated his feast on the New Calendar this past Tuesday, the 9th) on November 22nd, could you do a video on this marvelous saint? Try to see his movie, “Man of God”, if you have the opportunity too :)
What great guests
Hey Austin. How about sharing with us Jon Sweeney's conversion story?
I was thinking that could be fun! He actually once wrote a book about appreciating Catholicism but not becoming Catholic, so when I did this interview, I assumed that was still where he was at. I learned in real time that he was Catholic!
I'm so glad I found this channel. I studied world religions and am very interested in dual faiths. In Congo there is a holiday everyone celebrates . It's about another " Servant of God " which what Black Elk is called. Her name was Kimpa Vita.
I am trying to understand God threw these people. To be Catholic can not mean to loose your culture. I think it's to change the root of beliefs but continue in the culture ( unless the practice is against God eg. Aztec sacrifice people to the sun) . I heard a testimony from a Native American woman who had a near death experience and she described a vision of a miraculous man who spoke in HER native language. To me the man she described sounded like Jesus I do not know if she knew that.
Wow being married to a Rabbi is very interesting. Messianic Jews I would understand but it's tricky otherwise. We have Catholic Muslims marriages here but not active religiously so it's different.
Sorry one more thing Father Anthony De Mellow books are mixed. Also there is a children's book about a Christian Grandmother and a Muslim Grandmother who are best friend who at the end of the day pray that each will go to heaven dispute their faith. That is where I am sometimes but I know God is all good and I feel silly sometimes thinking this. I flip back and forth with these thoughts.
We also need to remember that the Lakota moved west and conquered other tribes. There was always intertribal warfare that was pretty brutal too. The Cherokee on the Trail of Trears had lots of Black slaves, and slavery was common in tribal raids. It doesn't justify things, but history and real life is nuanced, no people are perfect.
Should be interesting. Never heard of Black Elk but researched him after seeing this and he seems to be a fascinating person. Looking forward to learning more.
I understand that the north American peoples related to catholicism which mirrored honor for the Great Spirit much more easily than to protestantism where God was in book.
Austin, have you considered interviewing someone from a Messianic Jewish faith tradition? Dr. Michael Brown would be a good interview if you could get him to do it.
I would love to interview a Messianic Jew. I'm not familiar with Dr. Brown, but I'm open to looking into him
A good one to interview is Author of Salvation is from the Jews - Professor Roy Schoeman: The Role of Judaism in Salvation History from Abraham to the Second Coming is excellent.
@@loveisaih2020 Roy is a Catholic of Jewish origin.
@@GospelSimplicity You might also consider a Hebrew Catholic (there is an Association). Or simply a Catholic who retains their Jewish Identity. Someone has already mentioned Roy Schoeman. I think a more interesting interview might be with Amanda Achtman (Catholic and Jewish) or Jason Moraff (Messianic Jew) both upcoming interesting young adults who co-host the Yachad BeYeshua UA-cam channel - which is an organization attempting to unite Jewish believers in separate Churches/Ecclesial communities in terms of what they share in common. Maybe you could get them both at the same time for an interesting dialogue.
@@loveisaih2020 I agree to this. Roy is a fantastic writer--Salvation is From the Jews is a great book! Roy converted to Catholicism in a remarkable way. He'd be a fantastic guest Austin!
If there is no evidence of baptism, even today, you would have to be baptised
Hi Austin, I sent you an email about your approach to the Catholic Church. Maybe this will get to you. Anyway, your emphasis on Catholicism is on the Latin Church, but you never seem to realize that there are 23 different Catholic Churches united through the Bishop of Rome. Their way of worship is different and Theology is different. The Eastern Catholic Churches are just as Catholic as John Cantius in Chicago, but the way they approach the celebration of the Eucharist is quite different but at the same time the same. The Maronites use Aramaic in their Liturgy, the Byzantines use the same form and language as the Orthodox Church, the Oriental Catholics use their own form of worship. You seem to think that the Catholic Church is the Latin Church, only. Actually, there are three different Latin Churches in the West. This could keep my favorite Protestant student - that's you - Austin - very busy. There are also three different Eastern Churches in the West that are not Latin
Any help I could give you, I am here.
Dr. Thomas Kohler, D.A.
No tension, the Catholic Faith is for every human culture. Why? Because the Church comes from God.
I don't think to call it dual belonging for a Native American to be a Christian is a very fortunate fit. Yes. of course everybody thinking of a Native thinks almost immediately of their different religion or set of beliefs, but we should rather see a Native Indian as a person who belongs to a different nation, culture and speaks a different language, not of someone who is antichristian from the birth! This was the biggest mistake of the church people from the very beginning of meeting the Native Americans, calling them savages. Yes, as a christian I will sort out some of their spiritual practices, as our God gives even His Jew people to do it, yet in the Natives of North America belief core they all respected one God, the Creator, so all they need is to reveal this God as our Father through Jesus Christ!
Is this channel becoming a Catholic church promotion venue?.......it seems to be moving in that direction.....come on in Austin......the water is fine...:-)
"My wife is a Jewish Rabbi."
how that works?
Roy Schoeman would disagree with you Jon. He claims to still be Jewish and is a very devout Catholic. There are Hebrew Catholics as well.
What makes you think Jon would say that you can't be Jewish and Catholic?
good video and well needed topic but the comment on Black Elk killing in war as some sort of stain on him (my words not the speaker's) and that there are few Catholic saints who were known to kil people is an intersting and disturbing idea. White americans were trying to genocide his people and all natives. He was doing what all people have done in resisting colonisatoin. The White moralism in this topic has little place without considering what Whites were doing the evils that led to the formation of the US. The Catholic faith was forced on the native people in most places even where they sometimes willingly accepted the faith and ths must always be a part of the conversation. You cannot minimise what was done to them. The fact the Black ELk like so many others from colonised groups-like my own Black Catholic brethren and sisters, took on and implanted the faith is the work of God's spirit and not a testament to the work of missionaries working with armies. Columbus was a murderer and perpetrated every kind of abuse. Black ELk was sent by God to evangelise his people but also the WHites who thought they were evangelising him.Our church must atone for the evils she allowed and aided.
the only tension worth discussing (and which I appreciate them touching on) is how an oppressed people can see past the wickedness of the messengers to the power of the message for them, Thanks for this video.
Look to Moses. He murdered an Egyptian in the mist of his then own understanding of what deliverance ment for his people..
It is down right lies that you are talking about when it comes to Black Elk!
This looks interesting and different.
Columbus was based, Catholic schools for native kids were a net positive, and non-Christian’s are not fit/able to be full citizens in the Davidic Kingdom.
A pagan people were presented with the true faith.
Ponga subtitulos porfa..subtitles please
"After Black Elk spoke with Neihardt over the course of several days, Neihardt asked why Black Elk had "put aside" his old religion and baptized his children. According to [Neihardt's daughter] Hilda, Black Elk replied, "My children had to live in this world." In her 1995 memoir, Hilda Neihardt wrote that just before his death, Black Elk took his pipe and told his daughter Lucy Looks Twice, "The only thing I really believe is the pipe religion."
Interesting how it really was with him 🤔
Please check out Jimmy Akin's mysterious world. He just did two episodes this month on Black Elk and discussed these two details (in the second episode which was released yesterday). It will be worth your time.
Neh
I bet this guy cheered with all his heart at Pope Francis’s pachamama mass….
The name of the channel is ironic! Catholic church has nothing to do with gospel simplicity! They add a lot of things to the gospel...
So sad