Hate to say it but I'd go for the new Dura ace 12speed. I love all of my dura ace groupsets (7400, 7700, 7700 25th, 7800) but the new Ultegra and Dura Ace are so close together that I'll probably never find any reason to go Dura Ace again...
Mavic R-Sys. Catastrophic wheel failure, anyone? Also, bent crank arms, which (apparently) claimed to be more efficient. Really though, I think they were worth it just for style points.
I like the theme of this episode's Bike Vault: Screw the drive side, Show the non-drive side. At least it makes the Bike Vault humorous and not so serious. And I like Peugeot Guy submitting two Peugeots, sort of pretentious with panache and they are French frames, after all.
@@kpizzle1985 I prefer the drive side, tho' I do agree that you can see more of the frame from the other side. And a few years ago, for the vault, I submitted a photo of my commuter bike from the non-drive side because the left-rear pannier looked newer than the right one. And the photo was never shown and I figured they didn't like non-drive side and rear panniers. Maybe they were mad at me. :)
Some stuff may make sense for pros (to give them slight advantages), but are nonsense for people who have to pay for their bike. It's like carbon fiber brake rotors, they make perfectly sense on a race car, but no sense at all on a production car for everyday use
Guys, Magura is still producing HS brakes and they are great. You can find them on a bunch of city, trekking and urban bikes, both "normal" and e-bikes.
I suppose they remember the Magura HS 66 (cantilever mount) and HS 77, which were designed for road bikes but never really caught on and were soon discontinued. All the other models are still in production, after three decades.
They were definitely NOT a flop, all the cool mountain bikers had them back in the day. I'm still riding MTB with a pair of HS22s and they're more than adequate. In modern times, I don't know why they need to exist though, especially in the numbers they do. Disc brakes are much more readily available, less maintenance, and the braking surface is disposable, doesn't require lacing up a new rim, and doesn't complain if the wheel isn't true. That said, the HS77 road brake was definitely a flop, and you weren't able to run your usual STI/Ergo shifters.
As a Mechanical Engineer, I love the elegance of the Rotor hydraulic shifters - but they came too late. Electronic shifters were already well established and getting better with each generation, and there was no way anyone was going to jump on board this alternative system from a new entrant in the category. Too bad. I'd still love to have a set for my bike. I guess there's always eBay...
Tech flop-Shimano ax aero brakes. Neither aero nor brakes, predated the Campagnolo delta brakes. Friend of mine had them, said they were good for criterium racing because they never slowed him down, and he had to learn to use maneuver in lieu of braking to negotiate the pack.
Beg to disagree about Maguras being flops. I've got a set of Magura hydraulic rim brakes on my old Cannondale XS800 cross bike (with a Headshock) that I'm riding on the fairly rough, cracked and cratered, largely concrete roads we have in Hong Kong. I'll agree, the Magura's aren't a patch on discs. But they beat any other rim brakes I've ever tried into a cocked hat. Plus, I've had them for getting on for 20 years now, and they still do the job. So long as I can find replacement pads, I'll keep riding them. Cheers
In 1 year (or less), this tech flop episode will include the absoluteBACK oversized pulley cage. This product will sink this company as no one will trust them with their outrageous claims. Too bad because their chain rings are ok.
AbsoluteCrap is mediocre at best really. Wolf tooth has them beat by a landslide in terms of quality, While serious TT/traithlete's will opt for aerocoach, D2Z, .... It's a brand that mainly relies on marketing and influencers rather then facts & results.
Talks about Zap, shows Mektronic... Mavic made TWO electronic drivetrains, Mektronic being released some years after Zap's failure. Let's not forget the electronic Suntour/Browning crankset, which used cleverly gated chainrings instead of a front derailleur.
If I remember correctly , it was a rule change in the mountain biking racing association that outlawed the Suntour / Browning crank because it gave an unfair advantage to suntour sponsored riders , so Suntour stopped making it in the end 🤒
@@tubbytoast2 I'm trying to figure out what advantage it had that was so unfair. Suntour were pretty close to being dead at that point anyway, sadly. That wouldn't have helped though.
I used to really want a Martyn Ashton trials bike with those Magura hydraulic rim brakes in the 90s. One interesting thing now is that some Dutch bikes use the same type rather than disc brakes or roller brakes because they’re protected from damage when they’re parked in the typical Dutch style bike racks.
Those gearbox would be nice with an ebike or commuter bike if they could get the price and weight down to an internally geared hub level. Eventually after years and years of development maybe they could work for road bikes? If they can be made light enough to compete or better a derailleur.
They would be nice on E bikes if they would combine the gearbox with the motor, to shift the motor and the cranks with the gearbox at the same time. Unfortunately, this isn't the case yet (you can only have a gearbox with a hub motor or a mid drive with a derailleur or internal geared hub), and the gearbox alone is actually more expensive than a well equipped commuter bike with a derailleur system. On an E bike 2 or 3 kg more are not really a problem, so they could still use steel for the gears.
@@timscott3027 Even with a conventional chain they could run it in a closed casing (some manufacturers already do), if it's protected from dirt and water the lifespan expands recognizable. A belt drive would be the 2nd option, with even less maintenance, unfortunately with higher costs at least today, and the frame needs an opening at the seat stay to get the belt in. .
#GCNTOTWFEM (GCN Troll Of The Week For Engagement Metrics): Calling hydraulic rim brakes a flop is disingenuous, they were quite successful. Something isn't a flop just because new technology comes along, like friction shifters were good for many years but STI were just better.
Hah. I am an actual atmospheric aerosol chemist - that is an incredibly silly idea. There are “air cleaning filters” in the city of Xi’an that attempt to filter the entire city, and those are equally absurd. Happy to discuss the details but i’ll omit the academic claptrap…
Maybe not a tech flop but an interesting story of R&D budgets vs market reception. How about the development, creation and history of the DuPont/Specialised/HED tri-spoke?
Yep there's Alex slagging off rim brakes again. Seriously Alex.. I've got 44 seasons on rim brakes, racing and training and NEVER had an issue with stopping power or an issue related to 'cable stretch'. And my racing/training was all done in North America in rain, sleet, heat and snow. Stop slagging off rim brakes. THEY WORK, period, full stop. (see what I did there?)
'Cable stretch'. 😆 A tool-less 5 second fix once a year or so. They're grasping at straws. Compare that to having to degrease, clean, and sanitize your brake pads and rotor after every wet ride in case they became contaminated.
Sorry, but the front end shot is in no way, shape or form, a Supernice...... 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕 Oh, BTW, as Ollie mentioned, the Magura hydro rim brakes were actually pretty good. Yes, they were superceded by discs, but they did have their day, and were bloody good enough to earn a place in the archives! 👍
Whoever only put in non drive side bikes, that was genius. I wonder if it is possible to „preload“ Alex and Ollie with that so even the most rubbish drive side photo will get a supernice.
@@GumMonster1 If you live in areas with very long/steep descents or lots of rain, it's worth it. Otherwise, no. I have more braking power than traction can handle already with rim brakes, and they're lighter than discs.
@@desertrainfrog1691 disc brakes will stop you way sooner from a high speed than rim brakes will 100% of the time. that is what truly matters when it comes to preventing accidents. if you are experiencing loss of traction when braking them get some new tires.
@@GumMonster1 Every braking system is limited by available traction. Both braking systems can break traction easily on a road bike. Both braking systems have functionally equivalent braking power because both can easily provide more stopping force than can actually be utlizied without causing an accident. 1+1=2
An old team mate had Mavic Zapp on his race bike and went on and on about how much better it was than our Campagnolo Super Record/C Record. It was pretty trick to be sure... until we hit a wet, hilly race and his Zapp shorted out on a fast descent and he got stuck in 53-14 and got blown out the back, Ollie style... and had to abandon. He quickly reverted back to Campy.
Hmmm, how can I annoy motorists and pedestrians more than I currently do? I know, I'll scare them s**tless by fitting the loudest ever bike horn to my bike and honk it at random moments
Some of the examples were technically not a flop at all. They might not have been commercial successes but sometimes the market is silly or just conservative. Take discbrakes on roadbikes. It took 10 years to learn from MTBs and STI shifters have still not migrated from road to MTB. I have f.x. heard many times, that the Shimano XT Dual Control STI Shifters: ST-M760 - 9 were flops but technically they were advanced and still are. I use them on my tour bike and my foldingbike and they are brilliant.
I've been riding a Rotor Uno group since May of 2020, I purchased it online during black Friday in 2018 and with coupons paid 1400$US. After initial setup I've only had to have LBS change the shifter fluid after riding the proverbial shit outa it after a year and I wore out the chain and cassette. Like any groupset there's pros and cons, with Uno it's a defiant improvement over a mechanical groupset, no cable stretch no readjusting shifting and it has comparable shifting to a mechanical group. It's a super light group and the magura 160mm brakes are beasts, one complaint is Rotor could have improved the chunky brake hoods by sliming them a bit and make them more comfortable. Another con is the brake hood material does not last and they don't stay in place very well, they wear out easily and I've never experienced wear issues in any other brake hood. Would I recommend Rotor Uno? I would if you were looking for something that once setup is good to go for months of riding, but if you were coming from riding an electronic group, Uno would feel like stepping back a bit.
Thank you Jon I had to pause the show for this comment, I have a fully functioning set that are ace , had them on look kg196 and now on a KG 231 real issue is that the batteries needed replacing more often I’m still in mourning over Mavics move away from innovation
I took a set of Mektronics shifters and adapted it to the Mavic Zap derailleur as a covid project. Been riding it for the last 2 years. It has worked the entire time until the 6V battery dropped below 5.2V and it defaulted to the smallest cog. Replaced the battery and it has been shifting fine.
@@huffytoss my upshift microswitch under the right lever stopped working but still downshifts, I have a spare on my stubby end set, am trying to pluck up the courage to dismantle and swap switches if that’s possible
@@darrendunn54 if you want to make your own switches, it's pretty simple. There are only 2 wires. I don't remember offhand which order. To shift one direction, you just need to close the circuit. To shift in the other direction, you need to put a 10K resistor into the circuit.
@@darrendunn54 as far a pulling the switch apart, the Mavic service manual shows cutting the pivot to remove the button/cover behind the brake lever. It doesn't shows what is behind the button/cover.
The problem with the Hornit, even in the less-than-140db guise, is that pedestrians aren't expecting that kind of noise on bridleways and other shared use paths, so they either don't react, or freeze wherever they are, making their obstruction worse.
Page 6:30 What ever the device that delivers a least amount of - torque ripple - has the best transmission efficiency. Peak or burst thrust paddle force is to void for a least interrupted torque has better efficiency. The spring mechanism was set out to smoothen out torque ripple if can be operated as intended.
Speaking of biking on water, there is a "shuttle bike" kit, or system made in Italy that looks intriguing since it uses your own bike sitting on two inflatable pontoons. Your own pedaling turns a cylinder sitting under pressure on the back tire which in turn rotates a propeller. Steering is done with your front wheel which sits on top of the rudder. Could you guys have a look at it and do a review? Thanks.
Cannondale, is the winner of worst ever consider the magic motorcycle frame that was CNC machine from a 600-lb billet of aluminum or perhaps consider the skate bike which had a whole bunch of rollerblade wheels on the front.
It "was" the weirdest thing. It was brown in color and fairly fast (but heavy). I never had any issues stopping! No idea why it was dropped. Probably because it was "JC Penny" and not a "Bob Jackson"! I am dating myself there...
We've had gearboxes on bikes for years and years two of the best known are Sturmey Archer (over 100 years) and Rohloff. The fact that they are as heavy and inefficient compared to deraillleur systems as they have always been should be a clue as to the future of bike gearboxes.
From what I remember, the biggest complaint about hydro rim brakes was the total lack of feel. You had little to no feedback-crucial on a decent or in a pack of riders.
Had the Hornit v1.0. Loved it. Bit dorky mounted on the bars but mounted (with zip ties - sorry Simon!) under my 120m stem it’s beautifully hidden - and it’s great because you can hear it inside a bus or lorry! Great for warning motorists emerging from side roads (different sounds from car horn to siren!)
That Shimano patent for a gearbox is actually from the Honda downhill bike, of which Greg Minaar still has one. Apparently it's still a bit draggy so I doubt we'll see it on the road.
Worst bike designs -Add integrated cables, difficult to fix, rub your brake hoses in the headset, modern seat tube design where they put to fastening bolt to low down on the seatstay causing seat tube rub. Press fit bottom brackets, cheap for companies, rubbish for everybody else.
I heard that pressfit would be great if done properly. Ball bearings are often pressed in somewhere. The "if" seems to be a big problem for bike manufacturers which I'd find a bit embarrassing if I was one.
I had the French version of it... I mounted it on the top of the seat stays... yes, great dynamo but like you noted got covered in crap really easy. I now use a pedalccell... same idea but keeps cleaner.
@@markjthomson I didn’t know there was a French one. Cool. After my first one got ruined with crud I mounted a second one on the front rack, with a home made mudguard to stop crud flicking up. Worked very well.
As a long distance recumbent bike rider, who might have to fix things on the road. Hydraulic any thing is a bad idea on a bike. I can easily carry spare cables. But if you blow a hydraulic line, you might need to have some new line and fluid handy. Oh and by the way a company called Browning came up with a electric front derailleur years and years ago. It didnt last. Oh and the gear boxes you talked about. I doubt they will get much lighter, because that will decease durability. Also if it breaks while your on a ride, stick out your thumb and hope.
If you ever get one of those hornit horns, do not install it upside down, it's shape traps humidity inside, and internal components will rust, destroying it in a matter of weeks. It (briefly) worked ok to be heard by cars, a regular bell isn't always enough.
Hmmm, I tend to disagree a bit, on the 'hybrid' Giant Roam XR1 2011 (front suspension) that I bought second hand in 2018, there are Magura HS11 rim brakes and these still have scaring stopping powers. I've never serviced them, I know the previous owner was very proper with maintenance. Brakes are still so snappy that skidding on the road surface is more of a concern than brakes slipping on the rims. Now, I do live in a country with average gradient 0.1%, so that might make a difference. On tire clearance: I ran these with up to 50mm Schwalbe Big Apple plus tires, although I'm now down to 42mm Specialised Pathfinder Pro's
i recently visited a big bike store and pretty much all the touring- and e-bikes were equipped with hydraulic rim brakes. i tried to adjust a pair of magura ones once and it was a nightmare.
Mavic Zap and Mavic Mektronic were two sequential iterations of the same idea: Mektronic was meant to improve upon the weak points of Zap. Both flopped.
I always thought the gear box would be great for mountain bikes. Weight would not be an issue if the box were to be made from carbon fiber while the gears being made from titanium.
I have a 1987 aluminum Trek bicycle that I put Biopace chainwheels on. Any time I get on my son's bikes, they feel just a bit off when pedaling. With maintenance, the bike still rides like a dream. I did remove the toe clips when I got into my 60s in order to prevent the "Biden bike maneuver" when stopping.
It's ironic to hear how difficult it is for a groupset manufacturer to break into the "big 3" Shimano, Campy, and Sram, when Sram did in fact do this very thing, at a time when the big 3 were Shimano, Campy, and Suntour.
The Bontrager BuzzKill system and handlebar plugs. I have 4 pairs of BK handlebar plugs that I treasure and I have used them on many bikes. They are the most effective on my Serotta Legend Ti…
Hi, I had an Idea associated with this topic. The Idea: Why not we install a Kind of Spring in the Bicycle frame that compresses at Descends using the Effortless Potential energy (That we waste anyway by braking at descends) and that compressed spring can be released while at climbs to help us climb or provide additional efforts (Just like say a turbo).
I’d nominate Shimano mountain bike dual control brake/shift combination levers. Imagine trying to brake while navigating really rough terrain and inadvertently shifting multiple times in rapid succession.
The GoRolloe wheels are ridiculous. If they were so good then why limit use to bikes? Make a car equivalent and fit them to all cars where it’s likely to make a better impact.
Imagine if the air filter actually worked, you'd have to clean or replace it. Let me forecast, not one will get to that point. Jeez, the drag and cross winds as well.
What do you think is the biggest bike tech flop of all time?
Hate to say it but I'd go for the new Dura ace 12speed. I love all of my dura ace groupsets (7400, 7700, 7700 25th, 7800) but the new Ultegra and Dura Ace are so close together that I'll probably never find any reason to go Dura Ace again...
I'd say double front rotors.
Tech flop: a clamp on air filter for the front wheel
Mavic R-Sys. Catastrophic wheel failure, anyone?
Also, bent crank arms, which (apparently) claimed to be more efficient. Really though, I think they were worth it just for style points.
@@tomahoks Eh?
Fun fact: 100% of the 3% that answered “who needs gears” ride in the Netherlands 😏
Have you ever heard of the Dutch mountains (a.k.a. the wind)?
Hey, "Snakeubowski" here. Thank you sooo much for featuring my Peugeot bikes. It really made my day!
Much Love and have a nice weekend!
Love Ollie's snark with the filtration system. Spoken like a true scientist.
I like the theme of this episode's Bike Vault: Screw the drive side, Show the non-drive side. At least it makes the Bike Vault humorous and not so serious. And I like Peugeot Guy submitting two Peugeots, sort of pretentious with panache and they are French frames, after all.
On a nice frame the non drive side looks way better anyway
@@kpizzle1985 I prefer the drive side, tho' I do agree that you can see more of the frame from the other side. And a few years ago, for the vault, I submitted a photo of my commuter bike from the non-drive side because the left-rear pannier looked newer than the right one. And the photo was never shown and I figured they didn't like non-drive side and rear panniers. Maybe they were mad at me. :)
Magura HS systems are actually good. And yes the Rotor groupset is still available now 1x but still hydraulic.
That doesn't mean it's not a failure.
Make sure you don't mention flops from your sponsors! Oversized pulley wheels, ludicrous AF lube, ceramic bearings... 🤭😂
Some stuff may make sense for pros (to give them slight advantages), but are nonsense for people who have to pay for their bike.
It's like carbon fiber brake rotors, they make perfectly sense on a race car, but no sense at all on a production car for everyday use
All of those things give quantifiable improvements. They're simple commercial flops due to cost.
Guys, Magura is still producing HS brakes and they are great. You can find them on a bunch of city, trekking and urban bikes, both "normal" and e-bikes.
Not to mention competition trials riders use them
Yes have them on my Gazelle e-bike.
I have them on my recumbent. I am never going back to regular rim breaks
I suppose they remember the Magura HS 66 (cantilever mount) and HS 77, which were designed for road bikes but never really caught on and were soon discontinued. All the other models are still in production, after three decades.
They were definitely NOT a flop, all the cool mountain bikers had them back in the day. I'm still riding MTB with a pair of HS22s and they're more than adequate. In modern times, I don't know why they need to exist though, especially in the numbers they do. Disc brakes are much more readily available, less maintenance, and the braking surface is disposable, doesn't require lacing up a new rim, and doesn't complain if the wheel isn't true.
That said, the HS77 road brake was definitely a flop, and you weren't able to run your usual STI/Ergo shifters.
As a Mechanical Engineer, I love the elegance of the Rotor hydraulic shifters - but they came too late. Electronic shifters were already well established and getting better with each generation, and there was no way anyone was going to jump on board this alternative system from a new entrant in the category. Too bad. I'd still love to have a set for my bike. I guess there's always eBay...
Wym ebay? Uno groupsets are still produced and sold new
They have an updated 1x13 version that they are still making too
@@feedbackzaloop it's expensive as hell tho
@@jamesward8140 comparable to Ultegra/Force/FSA WE, still cheaper than anything top-tier
Tech flop-Shimano ax aero brakes. Neither aero nor brakes, predated the Campagnolo delta brakes.
Friend of mine had them, said they were good for criterium racing because they never slowed him down, and he had to learn to use maneuver in lieu of braking to negotiate the pack.
Beg to disagree about Maguras being flops.
I've got a set of Magura hydraulic rim brakes on my old Cannondale XS800 cross bike (with a Headshock) that I'm riding on the fairly rough, cracked and cratered, largely concrete roads we have in Hong Kong.
I'll agree, the Magura's aren't a patch on discs. But they beat any other rim brakes I've ever tried into a cocked hat. Plus, I've had them for getting on for 20 years now, and they still do the job. So long as I can find replacement pads, I'll keep riding them.
Cheers
In 1 year (or less), this tech flop episode will include the absoluteBACK oversized pulley cage. This product will sink this company as no one will trust them with their outrageous claims. Too bad because their chain rings are ok.
I think you mean black
AbsoluteCrap is mediocre at best really. Wolf tooth has them beat by a landslide in terms of quality, While serious TT/traithlete's will opt for aerocoach, D2Z, ....
It's a brand that mainly relies on marketing and influencers rather then facts & results.
Talks about Zap, shows Mektronic... Mavic made TWO electronic drivetrains, Mektronic being released some years after Zap's failure. Let's not forget the electronic Suntour/Browning crankset, which used cleverly gated chainrings instead of a front derailleur.
If I remember correctly , it was a rule change in the mountain biking racing association that outlawed the Suntour / Browning crank because it gave an unfair advantage to suntour sponsored riders , so Suntour stopped making it in the end 🤒
@@tubbytoast2 I'm trying to figure out what advantage it had that was so unfair. Suntour were pretty close to being dead at that point anyway, sadly. That wouldn't have helped though.
I used to really want a Martyn Ashton trials bike with those Magura hydraulic rim brakes in the 90s.
One interesting thing now is that some Dutch bikes use the same type rather than disc brakes or roller brakes because they’re protected from damage when they’re parked in the typical Dutch style bike racks.
Continuously Variable Transmissions are the future.
Except some people apparently don't know how they work.
Those gearbox would be nice with an ebike or commuter bike if they could get the price and weight down to an internally geared hub level. Eventually after years and years of development maybe they could work for road bikes? If they can be made light enough to compete or better a derailleur.
@RealSweetKid never say never.
They would be nice on E bikes if they would combine the gearbox with the motor, to shift the motor and the cranks with the gearbox at the same time. Unfortunately, this isn't the case yet (you can only have a gearbox with a hub motor or a mid drive with a derailleur or internal geared hub), and the gearbox alone is actually more expensive than a well equipped commuter bike with a derailleur system.
On an E bike 2 or 3 kg more are not really a problem, so they could still use steel for the gears.
@@simonm1447 yeah definitely they should fit a small motor in the gearbox too and have a belt or chain for a really simple clean bike
@@timscott3027 Even with a conventional chain they could run it in a closed casing (some manufacturers already do), if it's protected from dirt and water the lifespan expands recognizable. A belt drive would be the 2nd option, with even less maintenance, unfortunately with higher costs at least today, and the frame needs an opening at the seat stay to get the belt in. .
#GCNTOTWFEM (GCN Troll Of The Week For Engagement Metrics):
Calling hydraulic rim brakes a flop is disingenuous, they were quite successful. Something isn't a flop just because new technology comes along, like friction shifters were good for many years but STI were just better.
Hydro rim brakes are still the tech of choice for trials riders.
PowerCranks were a big flop. So much of a flop that they were not on your radar!
Ollie is showing off his PhD and his 1980s childhood in this video.
And his Aquaman skills, too. 😀
Hah. I am an actual atmospheric aerosol chemist - that is an incredibly silly idea. There are “air cleaning filters” in the city of Xi’an that attempt to filter the entire city, and those are equally absurd. Happy to discuss the details but i’ll omit the academic claptrap…
Maybe not a tech flop but an interesting story of R&D budgets vs market reception. How about the development, creation and history of the DuPont/Specialised/HED tri-spoke?
Yep there's Alex slagging off rim brakes again. Seriously Alex.. I've got 44 seasons on rim brakes, racing and training and NEVER had an issue with stopping power or an issue related to 'cable stretch'. And my racing/training was all done in North America in rain, sleet, heat and snow. Stop slagging off rim brakes. THEY WORK, period, full stop. (see what I did there?)
And a lot cheaper to maintain!!
'Cable stretch'. 😆 A tool-less 5 second fix once a year or so. They're grasping at straws.
Compare that to having to degrease, clean, and sanitize your brake pads and rotor after every wet ride in case they became contaminated.
@@se7enTse7en exactly
Periodically…
@@se7enTse7en Used discs for years and have never done any of that after wet rides
Kudos to Alex for trying to join in with the end of Oli’s rendition of NKOTB even though he obviously hadn’t got a clue what it was.
Hydraulic rimbrakes are still a thing. The new e-bike we bought a couple of weeks ago has them.
They're still generally a commercial flop
You definitely need a Hotnit horn to replace the bell for the super nice bikes in the Bike Vault.
Put a geared hub mechanism (Rohloff etc) in a bottom bracket shell and add electronic shifting. Less weight than current models.
Hydraulic rim brakes is common on city e-bikes. And works absolutly fine.
Sorry, but the front end shot is in no way, shape or form, a Supernice...... 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕
Oh, BTW, as Ollie mentioned, the Magura hydro rim brakes were actually pretty good. Yes, they were superceded by discs, but they did have their day, and were bloody good enough to earn a place in the archives! 👍
Alex: "It's all up in his grill!"
I don't what the Bike Vault criteria is, as I have submitted a couple pictures that meet all the requirements, but are not selected for the show.
You guys kept saying Persian instead of Peugeot
Whoever only put in non drive side bikes, that was genius. I wonder if it is possible to „preload“ Alex and Ollie with that so even the most rubbish drive side photo will get a supernice.
Rim brakes aren’t “rubbish” in the wet 🤔
Agree.. Alex being a slave to his corporate overlords.
you're right! they are rubbish overall compared to disk brakes when it comes to actually stopping your bicycle.
@@GumMonster1 If you live in areas with very long/steep descents or lots of rain, it's worth it. Otherwise, no. I have more braking power than traction can handle already with rim brakes, and they're lighter than discs.
@@desertrainfrog1691 disc brakes will stop you way sooner from a high speed than rim brakes will 100% of the time. that is what truly matters when it comes to preventing accidents. if you are experiencing loss of traction when braking them get some new tires.
@@GumMonster1 Every braking system is limited by available traction. Both braking systems can break traction easily on a road bike. Both braking systems have functionally equivalent braking power because both can easily provide more stopping force than can actually be utlizied without causing an accident.
1+1=2
How about doing old tech we're glad to be rid of? I vote for cotter pins.
Yes, I strongly agree.
On the other side of that, anything that came after the square taper cartridge BB is engineering new junk for the sake of engineering new junk.
My dad had a Cannondale Road Warrior with some Magura Hydro rim brakes; I remember they worked very well indeed
An old team mate had Mavic Zapp on his race bike and went on and on about how much better it was than our Campagnolo Super Record/C Record. It was pretty trick to be sure... until we hit a wet, hilly race and his Zapp shorted out on a fast descent and he got stuck in 53-14 and got blown out the back, Ollie style... and had to abandon. He quickly reverted back to Campy.
HORN TEST!! Do the extra loud horn test, then it can be the new super-nice bell.
Hmmm, how can I annoy motorists and pedestrians more than I currently do? I know, I'll scare them s**tless by fitting the loudest ever bike horn to my bike and honk it at random moments
🤣
The air filtration thing could be good for indoor training
"If you're French or pretentious" hahaha Well said Ollie
Some of the examples were technically not a flop at all. They might not have been commercial successes but sometimes the market is silly or just conservative. Take discbrakes on roadbikes. It took 10 years to learn from MTBs and STI shifters have still not migrated from road to MTB.
I have f.x. heard many times, that the Shimano XT Dual Control STI Shifters: ST-M760 - 9 were flops but technically they were advanced and still are. I use them on my tour bike and my foldingbike and they are brilliant.
Got something for you for the next Tech Flops. The Shimano FF System (Front Freewheel) from the early 80s.
Are you in two different locations but still using a plexiglass “separation”? 😂🤣
I've been riding a Rotor Uno group since May of 2020, I purchased it online during black Friday in 2018 and with coupons paid 1400$US. After initial setup I've only had to have LBS change the shifter fluid after riding the proverbial shit outa it after a year and I wore out the chain and cassette. Like any groupset there's pros and cons, with Uno it's a defiant improvement over a mechanical groupset, no cable stretch no readjusting shifting and it has comparable shifting to a mechanical group. It's a super light group and the magura 160mm brakes are beasts, one complaint is Rotor could have improved the chunky brake hoods by sliming them a bit and make them more comfortable. Another con is the brake hood material does not last and they don't stay in place very well, they wear out easily and I've never experienced wear issues in any other brake hood. Would I recommend Rotor Uno? I would if you were looking for something that once setup is good to go for months of riding, but if you were coming from riding an electronic group, Uno would feel like stepping back a bit.
That's Mavic Mektronic you are showing, Zap was pretty different 🙂
Thank you Jon I had to pause the show for this comment, I have a fully functioning set that are ace , had them on look kg196 and now on a KG 231 real issue is that the batteries needed replacing more often I’m still in mourning over Mavics move away from innovation
I took a set of Mektronics shifters and adapted it to the Mavic Zap derailleur as a covid project. Been riding it for the last 2 years. It has worked the entire time until the 6V battery dropped below 5.2V and it defaulted to the smallest cog. Replaced the battery and it has been shifting fine.
@@huffytoss my upshift microswitch under the right lever stopped working but still downshifts, I have a spare on my stubby end set, am trying to pluck up the courage to dismantle and swap switches if that’s possible
@@darrendunn54 if you want to make your own switches, it's pretty simple. There are only 2 wires. I don't remember offhand which order. To shift one direction, you just need to close the circuit. To shift in the other direction, you need to put a 10K resistor into the circuit.
@@darrendunn54 as far a pulling the switch apart, the Mavic service manual shows cutting the pivot to remove the button/cover behind the brake lever. It doesn't shows what is behind the button/cover.
The problem with the Hornit, even in the less-than-140db guise, is that pedestrians aren't expecting that kind of noise on bridleways and other shared use paths, so they either don't react, or freeze wherever they are, making their obstruction worse.
Actually cvt is much better use in bicycle compare to conventional gearbox
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What ever the device that delivers a least amount of - torque ripple - has the best transmission efficiency.
Peak or burst thrust paddle force is to void for a least interrupted torque has better efficiency.
The spring mechanism was set out to smoothen out torque ripple if can be operated as intended.
Speaking of biking on water, there is a "shuttle bike" kit, or system made in Italy that looks intriguing since it uses your own bike sitting on two inflatable pontoons. Your own pedaling turns a cylinder sitting under pressure on the back tire which in turn rotates a propeller. Steering is done with your front wheel which sits on top of the rudder. Could you guys have a look at it and do a review? Thanks.
Cannondale, is the winner of worst ever consider the magic motorcycle frame that was CNC machine from a 600-lb billet of aluminum or perhaps consider the skate bike which had a whole bunch of rollerblade wheels on the front.
Think about this for a second: My JC Penny 12-speed road bike had a disc brake on the rear... 1972!
Seriously? I was still buying drum brake motorcycles in '72. And JC Penney makes it more surprising. What happened that it was dropped?
It "was" the weirdest thing. It was brown in color and fairly fast (but heavy). I never had any issues stopping! No idea why it was dropped. Probably because it was "JC Penny" and not a "Bob Jackson"! I am dating myself there...
Gearboxes seem like they'd be great for e-bikes (especially commuter-style). When the tech evolves to be lighter it could be used elsewhere.
We've had gearboxes on bikes for years and years two of the best known are Sturmey Archer (over 100 years) and Rohloff. The fact that they are as heavy and inefficient compared to deraillleur systems as they have always been should be a clue as to the future of bike gearboxes.
From what I remember, the biggest complaint about hydro rim brakes was the total lack of feel. You had little to no feedback-crucial on a decent or in a pack of riders.
The disgust was hilarious and I also did the same thing at the same time lmao
The Swedish all plastic bike Iterra. From the 80s. They had a street bike and a road version!
Loading the spring takes more energy than is released.
Alex, it would appear that YOU and I both agree, that internal gearbox bike is pretty cool 😎
Bromance 😂
Had the Hornit v1.0. Loved it. Bit dorky mounted on the bars but mounted (with zip ties - sorry Simon!) under my 120m stem it’s beautifully hidden - and it’s great because you can hear it inside a bus or lorry! Great for warning motorists emerging from side roads (different sounds from car horn to siren!)
That Shimano patent for a gearbox is actually from the Honda downhill bike, of which Greg Minaar still has one. Apparently it's still a bit draggy so I doubt we'll see it on the road.
Dan reminds us he rode for Cervelo test team back in the day, now Ollie won't stop reminding us of his Cervelo TT bike back in the day.
I think the non drive side photos are a silent protest....😂
That air filter insert would be awful in a cross wind.
Worst bike designs -Add integrated cables, difficult to fix, rub your brake hoses in the headset, modern seat tube design where they put to fastening bolt to low down on the seatstay causing seat tube rub. Press fit bottom brackets, cheap for companies, rubbish for everybody else.
I heard that pressfit would be great if done properly. Ball bearings are often pressed in somewhere.
The "if" seems to be a big problem for bike manufacturers which I'd find a bit embarrassing if I was one.
@@jochenkraus7016 one of the problems is no round bottom brackets even on high end bikes.
ollie - "for fuh..."priceless!
Betamax is a superior product and still used today. VHS was just better at marketing.
Also, Sony wouldn't sell Betamax recorders to the Porn industry, so the Pornographers distributed their product on VHS.
The Hs33 is the farthest thing from a flop. They’re still the standard used on Trials bikes.
36" wheel mountain bikes - MAYbe... But, I'd likely buy a well thought out 36" gravel bike!!!
I think the filtering bike wheels will be added to the flop list. Save your money and plant a tree or 2.
9:50 "oh fuck fk sake" haha
Who remembers the Sanyo bottom bracket dynamo? A great dynamo, but positioned in the worst possible place, and quickly ruined by crud.
I had the French version of it... I mounted it on the top of the seat stays... yes, great dynamo but like you noted got covered in crap really easy. I now use a pedalccell... same idea but keeps cleaner.
@@markjthomson I didn’t know there was a French one. Cool.
After my first one got ruined with crud I mounted a second one on the front rack, with a home made mudguard to stop crud flicking up. Worked very well.
As a long distance recumbent bike rider, who might have to fix things on the road. Hydraulic any thing is a bad idea on a bike. I can easily carry spare cables. But if you blow a hydraulic line, you might need to have some new line and fluid handy. Oh and by the way a company called Browning came up with a electric front derailleur years and years ago. It didnt last. Oh and the gear boxes you talked about. I doubt they will get much lighter, because that will decease durability. Also if it breaks while your on a ride, stick out your thumb and hope.
If you ever get one of those hornit horns, do not install it upside down, it's shape traps humidity inside, and internal components will rust, destroying it in a matter of weeks. It (briefly) worked ok to be heard by cars, a regular bell isn't always enough.
70%+28%+3%=.........errrrrr!
Hmmm, I tend to disagree a bit, on the 'hybrid' Giant Roam XR1 2011 (front suspension) that I bought second hand in 2018, there are Magura HS11 rim brakes and these still have scaring stopping powers. I've never serviced them, I know the previous owner was very proper with maintenance. Brakes are still so snappy that skidding on the road surface is more of a concern than brakes slipping on the rims.
Now, I do live in a country with average gradient 0.1%, so that might make a difference.
On tire clearance: I ran these with up to 50mm Schwalbe Big Apple plus tires, although I'm now down to 42mm Specialised Pathfinder Pro's
at least no one mentioned dork discs this time
i recently visited a big bike store and pretty much all the touring- and e-bikes were equipped with hydraulic rim brakes.
i tried to adjust a pair of magura ones once and it was a nightmare.
Mavic Zap and Mavic Mektronic were two sequential iterations of the same idea: Mektronic was meant to improve upon the weak points of Zap. Both flopped.
Looking forward to the front end shot trend. Hopefully for the next showsthere will be only front end shots xD
Gears on a bike is a fundamental misunderstanding of cycling, because you stop producing torque , when you need it most , going up a hill
This weeks bike vault was brilliant 🤣
I always thought the gear box would be great for mountain bikes. Weight would not be an issue if the box were to be made from carbon fiber while the gears being made from titanium.
I have a 1987 aluminum Trek bicycle that I put Biopace chainwheels on. Any time I get on my son's bikes, they feel just a bit off when pedaling. With maintenance, the bike still rides like a dream. I did remove the toe clips when I got into my 60s in order to prevent the "Biden bike maneuver" when stopping.
everyone falls off a bike.. i have seen pros do what you call.. the biden bike maneuver.. come to think of it.. never seen trump on a bike...
It's ironic to hear how difficult it is for a groupset manufacturer to break into the "big 3" Shimano, Campy, and Sram, when Sram did in fact do this very thing, at a time when the big 3 were Shimano, Campy, and Suntour.
Leaning your bike against anything on the drive side is a total rookie Fred move and shows no consideration towards the expensive groupo.
The non-drive side bike vault pics are about peeps thinking that 'rotor side' to the camera is the correct view ....
The Bontrager BuzzKill system and handlebar plugs. I have 4 pairs of BK handlebar plugs that I treasure and I have used them on many bikes. They are the most effective on my Serotta Legend Ti…
Dual control and rapid-rise. Answers to a question nobody was asking😂
What about press fit bottom bracket
Hi, I had an Idea associated with this topic.
The Idea: Why not we install a Kind of Spring in the Bicycle frame that compresses at Descends using the Effortless Potential energy (That we waste anyway by braking at descends) and that compressed spring can be released while at climbs to help us climb or provide additional efforts (Just like say a turbo).
Mechanical system could be interesting but I'd say a battery & motor/generator combo with regenerative braking might be more effective...
I have one of this hornets, great thing, you can honk on cars xD
Magic Zap was awesome (in the dry)
Yep I thought the k8s was the future. Big tires are good enough though.
I’d take that Rotor Hydraulic MTB groupset hehehe
I’d nominate Shimano mountain bike dual control brake/shift combination levers. Imagine trying to brake while navigating really rough terrain and inadvertently shifting multiple times in rapid succession.
C'mon, rim brakes aren't "rubbish" in the wet. That is highly(!) exaggerated! Stop pretending to be in constant mortal danger with rim brakes.
The GoRolloe wheels are ridiculous. If they were so good then why limit use to bikes? Make a car equivalent and fit them to all cars where it’s likely to make a better impact.
Biggest flop has to be Ollie on the aquabike 😁
I am sure many bike mechanics would love an evoloved hydro system for integrated cockpits and the mental right hand bends on some bikes...
Imagine if the air filter actually worked, you'd have to clean or replace it. Let me forecast, not one will get to that point. Jeez, the drag and cross winds as well.
Solid trolling from whoever picks the bike vault submissions lol
Thanks, all my own handy work 😬