One sunny afternoon in San Luis Obispo, CA, back in 2004, a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Jeff took off from his apartment to do some intervals on his rusty-yet-trusty 1985 Bridgestone RB-1000 road bike. I had just taco'd the rear wheel in a local practice crit (bonehead move, but you were 20 years old once too...), and in an effort to get out and do some training, had swapped over another wheel I had laying around. The stock (original 1985 vintage) Dura Ace hub used a 7 speed freewheel, so I had installed a 7 speed cassette on that replacement wheel. Sounds great, right? Well, after testing the wheel around the parking lot, I was stoked that the chain seemed to work great- no skipping. You can probably guess where this will go, yeah? Anyhow, I start ridng down Grand Avenue, and launch into a big sprint effort down the hill... On about the 5th or 6th pedal stroke into the sprint, going around 25 mph, the chain decides it needs some PTO, and skips it's job of engaging that cassette. That sudden loss of resistance sent me absolutely FLYING over the bars, resulting in a bunch of road rash. Ugh, I can still feel the sheets sticking to me 20 years later! And to this day, I have PTSD about doing downhill sprints on the road.
Similar story. BC Cup xc race at Mount Washington. Second place. Sprint uphill at speed. Was too cheap to replace the big ring a week earlier. Chain, cassette small and middle ring new. Chain skipped. Why are my bars resting against my quads? BAM. Sound of gravel as my helmet scrapes along. Get up knee bleeding and the nail on my right ring finger is hanging by a millimeter at the front. I got 12 stitches in the knee a wad of gauze on that finger to hold the bone which had an undisplaced fracture. I also got a warning from the nurse for being too loud as I sat waiting for treatment with another injured rider.
Roadbiking makes you pay every little fall, the infinite belt sander is waiting for you 😈 At least nobody threw sticks in your wheels, local dog walkers were crazy back then...
After absolutely destroying pawl hubs several times, I built my GG Megatrail up with 54 teeth of magnificent engagement. My fatty has the DT Swiss fat hubs too. Love em...... now to convert my hard tail.
I currently own 4 wheel sets (3 bikes) with 36poe DT, 54t poe DT, 90poe i9, and 108 poe Bontrager. Honestly after 54 I don’t really see the point. Can’t hardly tell a difference Ratcheting through tech stuff between 54 and the 108. Sounds cool though 👌🏻
Yes, I confirm that as well. 18T on some cheaper DT Swiss wheelsets suck to be honest. 36T are pretty good already, I still upgraded to 54T which I like better. Have another DT Swiss rim but with Hope 5 Pro hubs and 108 poe which is double of the 54T DT hub - the biggest difference are the sound and colour. 🤣
I’ve been riding single speed exclusively for the past 4 years on a set of Hope 2’s. I recently laced up a set of I9’s and definitely noticed the difference through technical climbs.
The most American thing Jeff has said on his channel "they're Swiss so I don't know what language they speak, could be French, could be German". Could do a bit better.
@@dragonflyseven474 What does that even mean? I lived in said country. Big fan of Jeff's, just pointing out the tortured cliche of American-cultural-ignorance.
@@lenolenoleno Alright, I’m confused about what your point is then. If all you know is that a company is from Switzerland, what language should we assume they speak? Isn’t know there are multiple options way less ignorant?
@dragonflyseven474 Of course, but it's not a live stream (can be edited, can look it up, can insert a caption, can own your ignorance and educate others?). Phrased as "eh, French German, I dunno" comes across as something not worth addressing when it's a whole people's language. Yes great knowing there are multiple languages (better than knowing nothing), I probably just hold Jeff to a higher standard than your run of the mill UA-camr as I think Jeff is such a rad dude and a genuine gentleman. Apologise if it came off as overly harsh (though a fair criticism).
I run all my bikes with dt swiss hub(350, 370). They're easy to maintenance, strong, great value, and reliable. I love the look of dt swiss hub because they're all straight pull hub.
Same. I'm on DT and this will be better than completely swapping out the whole hub. The best bang for the buck for a new hub is a Spank Hex hub. I didn't realize how much I like a high engagement hub. My base DT is super quiet on the trail and now I like a quiet hub but I'd trade it not for the sound but engagement.
I tend to think they made it a larger diameter because some of the 54t ratchets were blowing up. Then with the larger diameter they had room for more notches. With the sound comparison, I think I'm happier that ever with my "low-engagement" DT370 hub, ha! I'm gonna go home and count the clicks now though, because I don't even know what it is. Funny thing is, in the 90's I rode Trials, and was pretty good at it. I was doing Hans Rey kind of stuff. I couldn't tell you what engagement my 8 or 9-speed Shimano XT hub was and nor did anybody care at the time, lol. We're so high-maintenance now. If it's not perfect, we're just not happy.
ive had all sorts of engagement hubs from the 3 paw all the way to the i9 infinite engagement. For me, i ride a lot of enduro and dh style trails. With that being said, i like the low engagement hub. It basically give less pedal kick back and makes everything feel a little bit smooth. Kinda like a O chain, without having an O chain.
Before discovering DT Swiss 350 rear hubs, I destroyed other rear hubs regularly. On one particular occasion, I was riding my Nukeproof Scout 290 up a pinch climb. I heard a god awful sound emanating from the rear hub, about halfway up said pinch Everything locked up i.e. my bike time warped back to the 1800's w/ freewheel no longer being free and the rear hub making the cranks turn when just rolling along. My LBS showed me the damage after they installed a new DT Swiss 350 rear hub. The old hub had cracked down the center/middle... along the vertical axis aka like splitting open a coconut 😳 For reference I weigh/weighed around 240lb's and do well at technical climbing... however, my endurance has always been a limiting factor. How did I/have I destroyed multiple hubs in the past, before discovering DT Swiss? Former Rugby player... guessing, the explosiveness developed over nearly 3 decades of playing the game... was/is no good for pawl system style hubs. The only issue I've ever had (despite regular maintenance) with DT Swiss rear hubs, was human error i.e. using oil that was a bit too thick, which caused the teeth to skip (54t ratchet). I love DT Swiss 350 rear hubs (& 240's which are on my AM 27.5 party bike). They're on all my bikes and I won't look at anything else.
Long time fan and user of DTSwiss hubs. One DT Swiss tech video mentioned that the higher up in teeth one goes, more drag is introduced while coasting. My g'road bike has an 18t, XC/Downcountry bike has 36t and my RipMo has 52t. Seems to work great for the intended purposes and uses.
@@ChrisRidesHisBike if you have a 165mm crankarm the 50t will initiate 10.31mm "later". And if you spinn your cranks at 80 rpm it will initiate 0.00744seconds slower than 100t...just sayin.
@@pernyberg2816 that may be well and true, but i still like having around 100 engagement points. I’ve tried both, and the 50-some points isn’t bad at all, i just like the feeling of higher engagement when doing little stabby hits at the pedals.
The differance from 50 to 100 is huge but only if you ride steep uphill tech i moded my hope pro 4 so two and two pauls engage together and started cleaning heaps of hills i would normally clean one in ten times now i,m making stupid steep tracks oh i ride a hardtail so kick back is not an issue .
Thanks for the show and tell Jeff. Extralite, Duke, and Nonplus have been making ratchet hubs for years with the teeth on the freehub. Larger diameter, but less weight. My Extralite Hyperboost 3 has 72 points.
I've only had a couple failed drive train issues...some bmx bikes ... i just replace them with something cheap and quiet...never been a fan of the really loud hubs ...would rather them be like the Mrs... with me for the journey on the long haul...vs loud and annoying anytime I'm not in full on go mode. Haha!
The added engagement is cool but the real benefit: remove, service, and replace both bearings without a tool, strong vice, and almost throwing your back out. This is sick!
These guys update crap in the mtb world faster Italian handbag companies. Wow, good job for finally updating in a useful feature, 20 years later. Now maybe they can think of a way we don't have to regrease them every couple months so they don't lock up,,, 2044 target date? My Chris Kings from maybe 2000 had 72poe (i think?), which is the money spot, got probably 10k on them, and rarely needed maintenance. If it wasn't for disc brakes coming along, they'd probably still be in service. Standards have dropped.
On my very first ride on my brand new Orbea Rallon, the drive ring failed on my RF Vault hub. That sucked, but it was quickly covered under warranty and I haven't had any more problems with it. It just ruined that ride.
I blew our the drive ring and pawls on a WTB rear hub 5 or so miles into the Mohican 100 many years ago. I had to walk out. I ended up playing minigolf for the rest of the day. Nothing in particular happened, I just started to pedal out of a corner and blam...
Hey Jeffe gotta tell you my worst freehub failure story back in 92 yep i,m old ha ha start of a xc race full sprint got the holeshot then bang broke both pauls in shimano freewheel yep this was before cassette hubs anyway after the bang i proceeded to face plant over the bars and getting my head run over by the following rider 300plus stitches in my face and a week of rest i will never use shimano hub. I am prettty hard on rear hubs riding super steep tech and high torgue. I think the deg is the way to go only six months ago i said if only the star ratchet way bigger . 👍✌👏😁
Hey Jeff i,m down in oz and after stripping my third hope pro 4 rear hub drive ring i obviously have way to much torq in my huge legs haha i do climb stupid stuff . Anyway i was just saying dt need to make there ratchet rings bigger to accommodate more teeth equals higher engagement. For me the engagement is super important its make it or not around 100poe is minimum. I love your vids but your not a tech climber in my eyes anyway not being mean i would love to work with hub companies to make things better strength poe then bearing are my priorities you can normally put better bearings in most hubs oh and no alloy freehub bodies please . 😁👍✌
I hate the pulsing sound these ratchet freehubs make that keeps changing pitch back and forth while rolling at a constant speed. I have a 350 hub and it's all I notice in all my pov videos. I really wish silent hub technology trickled down to the mid range as I'm not ready to dish out the price of a used bike for a rear hub.
Drivetrain fails: good your I9 are lasting as my hydra chews bearings and my mate has snapped his i9 axle and had a total pawl failure. DT authentic however seem to last forever with a little grease every now and again. I have old hubs that still run just fine on original bearings after almost a decade
Don’t know if I would call it a full driveline failure like a chain slip and what not but halfway in a 10 mile loop I had a pedal rip out of a crank as I landed a drop lol it ended badly then the 5plus mile hike back to the car 😅
Does higher engagement exaggerated pedal kickback issues with suspension it seems like the slower engagement would give a little slack as the wheels rotating
Is it not time to embrace silence with instant engagement? I know, a little heavier. But I think I'm ready to try a dead silent hub. Have you tried one? Something like the Box One Stealth or Onyx?
I think the ultra high engagement points is right up there with cables going through the head set. The reason DT Swiss made those rings bigger is because with the small rings the high number of teeth would start slipping when a lot of force is being applied.
You obviously haven’t serviced a dt hub ( takes 1 minute) vs worked on ridiculous headset bearing cable routing. Huge difference bud. One is purposeful. The other is pure aesthetics
@@emveeess839 my point went right over your head. The high engagement points is not about complexity, but about being useless - unless you do trials. Not to mention the pedal kick-back that people address now with OChain cranks that do exactly what low points of engagement does.
Looks like a great innovation from DT. It will be interesting to see how that larger Ratchet ring, that is machined out quite a bit to make them lighter, lasts for heavier/stronger riders. I'm 196cm (6'5"), 120Kg . I have tried and destroyed within a low mileage, then dumped, various brands' hubs including I9, Stans etc until I found DT Swiss hubs. HOWEVER, my first experience with any new DT swiss wheels has not been good. For example I had new EX511 with 350 hubs on a bike where I destroyed the Free hub bearings and ratchet within 200km. These were replaced under warranty but with the Steel Free hub and Un-machined out 32 or 36 teeth rather than the original 54 teeth ratchets. Apparently I put out too much power for the Lightweight Original ratchets and Aluminium free hub. The wheel has been going strong since then. I experienced the same with new 1900 Hybrid wheels after taking them straight out the box and testing in the driveway. I purchased these ebike wheels for my analogue bike because I was after the stronger steel Free hub and thicker spokes. After warranty replacement of the ratchets, I have put good trouble free mileage on them too. Overall I like the DT Swiss once I ironed out the bugs.
I had a 2019 Ibis HD4 GX build, 160/153mm drop, medium frame with Mercury rims and stock Ibis hubs. 3-pawl in rear. I broke a pawl on the rear hub at Big Sky Montana and it was not fun as the pedals would continue to move forward while coasting downhill. After hitting a local shop, they removed the one broken pawl, so I had 2 left for the weekend. Sketchy. Once back in Utah, I had a DT Swiss 240 54t installed and it's been buttery bulletproof ever since. Love those hubs. I recently put a Hope Pro 5 rear hub on my newer Ibis HD6 XT build. So far so good, but much quieter than I expected. At least it's a cool purple on the Lavender Haze bike.
Well, you missed out! One of my favorite Hub‘s is the DT swiss 240, but above that, and totally different then, the onyx vesper! The reason I like the DT swiss is the simplicity, and on the other hand, the onyx is just bad ass, but not so simple. And also comes with a weight penalty. But the sound of that baby is the greatest! I have upgraded my 240s to the 54 tooth ratchet and do like the engagement but getting back on to something like an 18 to 20 engagement. It’s almost hard when you’re used to the high engagement. I almost fell over trying to get the what seemed like a quarter term before my peddling started to engage. Enjoy the ride and rubber side down unless you’re whipping or flipping
Never liked high engagement hubs. Switched out on my bike for HEH from stock specialized wheels. Under braking in chunk and getting back up to speed in chunk would jerk the pedals with high engagement hubs. Especially in high gears. Also creeping into steeps it would ratchet my cranks back out of position as my suspension compressed. Not a fan.
As a 50-year-old 215 lb 5ft 8inch life long rider, I have sent a few drive train parts to an early retirement. The one that jumps to mind first is about 4 year's ago I had been working on cleaning a section of a climb that has roots and rocks in all the good line choices way making easy fun into hard earned fun. Long story in short form I decided speed was my friend like it always had been (not really) and I launched my bowling ball ish body up this mean old hill. Near the top things were going a little too well for my skill set and I placed my front wheel in the perfectly wrong spot while still all on the power with too weight all on my right leg and snap. Well, I cleared the section, but my Roscoe was left behind. I went full OTB, earning myself the opportunity to get a new and better chain, and that helmet that had maybe 10 rides in it also needed to be retired. Luckily, I have way too much falling experience and rolled out of it softly on some really soft rocks and roots. Bruised but not broken, I took my Roscoe for a nice long walk/push back to the van. Enjoy the ride
Shame on you for wearing your house slippers outside! LOL. Day before a XC race, my rear hub exploded. My local bike shop saved the day by fixing it in time. God bless the local bike shops.
Now they just need to expand it to the 350 hub. I don't see OEMs springing for a 240 hub on anything other than builds with 5 digit price tags. Hopefully they will make a retrofit kit so existing hubs can be upgraded, like the ratchet upgrade kits for the 370s.
I got the Chinese 60 tooth ratchet it was fine for me because DT didn't make superior engagement. Now I'm fkd I have to open the wallet. *Edit to me it matters, parking lot trial skills are the best 😂🎉
Are they planning to make the larger diameter ratchet in a lower engagement version too? I would love that for my fat bike, where I have killed every hub I've put on it so far (although so far so good with an 18 tooth DT Swiss hub that I installed after the last failure). I assume the larger ratchet should be even more bombproof.
I have tried Hadley, P321 quiet, I9 1/1, Ibis Logo low and high engagement hubs. You really need 72 points of engagement on a hub 4-5 degrees of engagement minimum. You should try the new Ibis Logo hubs with the new 6 pawl driver (72 degrees). Great bang for the buck. I think that the P321 and Hydra's are a little overkill for 99 percent of riders. The Ibis shops say that the Logo hubs last longer than the Hydras before needing to be rebuilt.
Couldn’t agree more regarding the Conti tyres and wet/cold conditions. Purchased a Kryptotal rear and was back on the maxis a day later. Very unpredictable and just wouldn’t hold grip. Glad it’s not just me. Fantastic reviews all round.
high engagement also means lots of drag. The i9 hydra is one of the SLOWEST hubs out there. Of all the hubs out there. Onyx is the only one I want to build up with.
Ive often wondered if the amount of engagement being more translates to weaker overall durability. Seeing fewer teeth means the material should be thicker and wear better? Just wondering since you would be the ideal person, who has seen considerable wear on his hubs. BY THE WAY- awesome work on your videos as always. Truly a learning/ entertaining experience.
Upgraded my bontrager hubs to 108poe sounded cool until the drive ring "delaminated" from the hub body and I started spinning in place 😂 turned my Spire into a giant balance bike.
Hi there, love the videos!! Saw you ride a carbon renthal fat bar, how do you like it? when I was 10 I had an adult size bike I was peddeling as hard as I could broke the chain landed on the frame with my nuts and because the bike was so big I had a hard time reaching the ground still hate that bike 😅😅
My minimum PoE is 72, I thought 54 was good until I tried 72, 90 feels better and 120t feels pretty good almost instant like a 692, but favorite is the soft instant engagement of sprag feels more natural with that soft engagement. The main advantage of high engagement is technical climbing, anything less than a 72poe and I can't do much tech climbs so that is the minimum but higher like 120 climbs even better.
I know this is a DT Swiss video, but like 1 1/2 years ago, I bought some Bontrager Line Comp 30s with their hubs. 108 poe. Was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't looking for that high engagement as I'm not good enough to take advantage of it. But it does sound pretty nice on the trail by myself. Originally they were specced with 54 with the ability to go up to 108. But when I bought them, they had just switched to 108 as a standard.
Drivetrain failure story: One summer I blew up a freehub body, then a couple weeks later, I blew it up again after replacing bearings and ring/pawls. I was in a bug infested trail - walking out pushing my bike sucked - it was the first day of a riding road trip to Whistler. I was lucky enough that a friend worked at the distributor who could not only replace the broken freehub parts but upgrade the shattered bearings... 3 weeks later, on one of my favorite loops, on the climb I started hearing the tell-tale creaking telling me to soon expect a blown up hub. I turned around, thought I'd Aaron Gwin my way back downhill to the trailhead (no pedalling pretending I'm chainless). I was at 32 KM/hr (what my Garmin told me), when the hub internals lodged together to make my hub go fixie while I was still in climbing gear (to make sure all the mechanical advantage was there to launch me into space). Upon landing in a rock garden, I broke my pelvis in 2 places, 2 ribs and my wrist in 3 places. I hobbled back to my van for about an hour and drove myself to the hospital knowing some serious shit had happened. Since then, I have only trusted DT Swiss and I9.
And I don't care at all about points of engagement. I've tried super buzzy hubs and less buzzy... forgot I was doing an experiment to compare which tells me that unless I become the next World Trials Champ, points of engagement is meaningless to me... except for whatever brand of hub sound gets me horny.
One sunny afternoon in San Luis Obispo, CA, back in 2004, a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Jeff took off from his apartment to do some intervals on his rusty-yet-trusty 1985 Bridgestone RB-1000 road bike. I had just taco'd the rear wheel in a local practice crit (bonehead move, but you were 20 years old once too...), and in an effort to get out and do some training, had swapped over another wheel I had laying around. The stock (original 1985 vintage) Dura Ace hub used a 7 speed freewheel, so I had installed a 7 speed cassette on that replacement wheel. Sounds great, right? Well, after testing the wheel around the parking lot, I was stoked that the chain seemed to work great- no skipping. You can probably guess where this will go, yeah? Anyhow, I start ridng down Grand Avenue, and launch into a big sprint effort down the hill... On about the 5th or 6th pedal stroke into the sprint, going around 25 mph, the chain decides it needs some PTO, and skips it's job of engaging that cassette. That sudden loss of resistance sent me absolutely FLYING over the bars, resulting in a bunch of road rash. Ugh, I can still feel the sheets sticking to me 20 years later! And to this day, I have PTSD about doing downhill sprints on the road.
Similar story. BC Cup xc race at Mount Washington. Second place. Sprint uphill at speed. Was too cheap to replace the big ring a week earlier. Chain, cassette small and middle ring new. Chain skipped. Why are my bars resting against my quads? BAM. Sound of gravel as my helmet scrapes along. Get up knee bleeding and the nail on my right ring finger is hanging by a millimeter at the front. I got 12 stitches in the knee a wad of gauze on that finger to hold the bone which had an undisplaced fracture. I also got a warning from the nurse for being too loud as I sat waiting for treatment with another injured rider.
Roadbiking makes you pay every little fall, the infinite belt sander is waiting for you 😈
At least nobody threw sticks in your wheels, local dog walkers were crazy back then...
DEG = Degree?
DT Swiss 350 sounds for the win (newer, or newly greased) -- quiter, bassier -- more in tune with the woods... love the thumb thumb vs the tick tick
Yeah, in addition to the price tag, I’ve always hated how loud i9 hubs are
After absolutely destroying pawl hubs several times, I built my GG Megatrail up with 54 teeth of magnificent engagement. My fatty has the DT Swiss fat hubs too. Love em...... now to convert my hard tail.
You should try Project 321/Stans M-Pulse. High engagement magnetic pawls. Very low drag. Adjustable bearing preload
This! I love my P321 wheelsets. They’re like Hydras with better features, but minimally less engagement.
Or Onyx. I have both - but the P321 on gravel and the Onyx on MTB. The new P321 hubs that just launched seem interesting
10:18 "... 36 POE is fine for regular ol' trail riding..." as Jeff is crushing a road gap
exactly what I thought too 😂
I currently own 4 wheel sets (3 bikes) with 36poe DT, 54t poe DT, 90poe i9, and 108 poe Bontrager. Honestly after 54 I don’t really see the point. Can’t hardly tell a difference Ratcheting through tech stuff between 54 and the 108.
Sounds cool though 👌🏻
Totally agree!!!
Yes, I confirm that as well. 18T on some cheaper DT Swiss wheelsets suck to be honest. 36T are pretty good already, I still upgraded to 54T which I like better. Have another DT Swiss rim but with Hope 5 Pro hubs and 108 poe which is double of the 54T DT hub - the biggest difference are the sound and colour. 🤣
I’ve been riding single speed exclusively for the past 4 years on a set of Hope 2’s. I recently laced up a set of I9’s and definitely noticed the difference through technical climbs.
The most American thing Jeff has said on his channel "they're Swiss so I don't know what language they speak, could be French, could be German".
Could do a bit better.
Uhhh I’m not sure you know as much as you think you do.
@@dragonflyseven474 What does that even mean? I lived in said country. Big fan of Jeff's, just pointing out the tortured cliche of American-cultural-ignorance.
@@lenolenoleno Alright, I’m confused about what your point is then. If all you know is that a company is from Switzerland, what language should we assume they speak? Isn’t know there are multiple options way less ignorant?
@dragonflyseven474 Of course, but it's not a live stream (can be edited, can look it up, can insert a caption, can own your ignorance and educate others?). Phrased as "eh, French German, I dunno" comes across as something not worth addressing when it's a whole people's language. Yes great knowing there are multiple languages (better than knowing nothing), I probably just hold Jeff to a higher standard than your run of the mill UA-camr as I think Jeff is such a rad dude and a genuine gentleman. Apologise if it came off as overly harsh (though a fair criticism).
I run all my bikes with dt swiss hub(350, 370). They're easy to maintenance, strong, great value, and reliable. I love the look of dt swiss hub because they're all straight pull hub.
As a hub engagement snob and diehard DT Swiss Star Ratchet fan, the new DEG hub is something I'm excited to try out. Thanks for the review Jeff!
Haven’t watched the video yet but I’m curious to see how these are in comparison to all the new ratchet designs like ERASE, QVIST, Duke racing
I just didn't knew this was a thing I'm frantically trying to order right meow 😂
Same. I'm on DT and this will be better than completely swapping out the whole hub. The best bang for the buck for a new hub is a Spank Hex hub. I didn't realize how much I like a high engagement hub. My base DT is super quiet on the trail and now I like a quiet hub but I'd trade it not for the sound but engagement.
This is a totally different hub. Not backwards compatible. The old star ratchets will fit inside the ID of the 90 tooth ratchets.
Erase ratchet is essentially identical to current DT star ratchet and just as bombproof
I tend to think they made it a larger diameter because some of the 54t ratchets were blowing up. Then with the larger diameter they had room for more notches. With the sound comparison, I think I'm happier that ever with my "low-engagement" DT370 hub, ha! I'm gonna go home and count the clicks now though, because I don't even know what it is. Funny thing is, in the 90's I rode Trials, and was pretty good at it. I was doing Hans Rey kind of stuff. I couldn't tell you what engagement my 8 or 9-speed Shimano XT hub was and nor did anybody care at the time, lol. We're so high-maintenance now. If it's not perfect, we're just not happy.
ive had all sorts of engagement hubs from the 3 paw all the way to the i9 infinite engagement. For me, i ride a lot of enduro and dh style trails. With that being said, i like the low engagement hub. It basically give less pedal kick back and makes everything feel a little bit smooth. Kinda like a O chain, without having an O chain.
If you get the chance will you review the new yeti sb165?
Before discovering DT Swiss 350 rear hubs, I destroyed other rear hubs regularly.
On one particular occasion, I was riding my Nukeproof Scout 290 up a pinch climb.
I heard a god awful sound emanating from the rear hub, about halfway up said pinch
Everything locked up i.e. my bike time warped back to the 1800's w/ freewheel no longer being free and the rear hub making the cranks turn when just rolling along.
My LBS showed me the damage after they installed a new DT Swiss 350 rear hub.
The old hub had cracked down the center/middle... along the vertical axis aka like splitting open a coconut 😳
For reference I weigh/weighed around 240lb's and do well at technical climbing... however, my endurance has always been a limiting factor.
How did I/have I destroyed multiple hubs in the past, before discovering DT Swiss?
Former Rugby player... guessing, the explosiveness developed over nearly 3 decades of playing the game... was/is no good for pawl system style hubs.
The only issue I've ever had (despite regular maintenance) with DT Swiss rear hubs, was human error i.e. using oil that was a bit too thick, which caused the teeth to skip (54t ratchet).
I love DT Swiss 350 rear hubs (& 240's which are on my AM 27.5 party bike).
They're on all my bikes and I won't look at anything else.
Good point I notice my buddies over 200lbs with strong legs need better hubs than lighter skinny guys
Dude, do you find Continental tires way harder to put on then other brands? Great video, yo!
Long time fan and user of DTSwiss hubs. One DT Swiss tech video mentioned that the higher up in teeth one goes, more drag is introduced while coasting. My g'road bike has an 18t, XC/Downcountry bike has 36t and my RipMo has 52t. Seems to work great for the intended purposes and uses.
The best sounding hub is Onyx and anything else that is silent.
Make dt swiss hubs cool again
Once you get to 50 points of engagement, getting more probably doesn't add any benefit. Diminishing returns.
Ehh, i like to have somewhere around 100 points, especially in lower gears.
@@ChrisRidesHisBike if you have a 165mm crankarm the 50t will initiate 10.31mm "later". And if you spinn your cranks at 80 rpm it will initiate 0.00744seconds slower than 100t...just sayin.
@@pernyberg2816 that may be well and true, but i still like having around 100 engagement points. I’ve tried both, and the 50-some points isn’t bad at all, i just like the feeling of higher engagement when doing little stabby hits at the pedals.
The differance from 50 to 100 is huge but only if you ride steep uphill tech i moded my hope pro 4 so two and two pauls engage together and started cleaning heaps of hills i would normally clean one in ten times now i,m making stupid steep tracks oh i ride a hardtail so kick back is not an issue .
Thanks for the show and tell Jeff. Extralite, Duke, and Nonplus have been making ratchet hubs for years with the teeth on the freehub. Larger diameter, but less weight. My Extralite Hyperboost 3 has 72 points.
I've only had a couple failed drive train issues...some bmx bikes ... i just replace them with something cheap and quiet...never been a fan of the really loud hubs ...would rather them be like the Mrs... with me for the journey on the long haul...vs loud and annoying anytime I'm not in full on go mode. Haha!
The added engagement is cool but the real benefit: remove, service, and replace both bearings without a tool, strong vice, and almost throwing your back out. This is sick!
Had a custom wheelset built up with a Hope Pro4 hub that absolutely grenaded on me. Luckily no crash, just spoiled the ride!
These guys update crap in the mtb world faster Italian handbag companies. Wow, good job for finally updating in a useful feature, 20 years later. Now maybe they can think of a way we don't have to regrease them every couple months so they don't lock up,,, 2044 target date? My Chris Kings from maybe 2000 had 72poe (i think?), which is the money spot, got probably 10k on them, and rarely needed maintenance. If it wasn't for disc brakes coming along, they'd probably still be in service. Standards have dropped.
Hey Jeff what do you think about Shimanos mtb hub lineup?
I totally get the advantages of quick engagement, but instant engagement mean more pedal kick back and a less active suspension. Right?
I just bought my first high engagement hub. A spank 350 wheelset. Really love it so far. Wish I had gotten some like this sooner!
Actually having the hub mechs out on the table was a great visual.
On my very first ride on my brand new Orbea Rallon, the drive ring failed on my RF Vault hub. That sucked, but it was quickly covered under warranty and I haven't had any more problems with it. It just ruined that ride.
I blew our the drive ring and pawls on a WTB rear hub 5 or so miles into the Mohican 100 many years ago. I had to walk out. I ended up playing minigolf for the rest of the day. Nothing in particular happened, I just started to pedal out of a corner and blam...
Nova Tech hubs explode at the worst time. Currently using DT Swiss, Hope, & Ibis hubs.
@jeffkendallweed what is the company of your Front Mudguard Jeff? Thanks
Can you discuss pedal kickback? Which frames are most susceptible? More engagement also equals more kickback I read.
Hey Jeffe gotta tell you my worst freehub failure story back in 92 yep i,m old ha ha start of a xc race full sprint got the holeshot then bang broke both pauls in shimano freewheel yep this was before cassette hubs anyway after the bang i proceeded to face plant over the bars and getting my head run over by the following rider 300plus stitches in my face and a week of rest i will never use shimano hub. I am prettty hard on rear hubs riding super steep tech and high torgue. I think the deg is the way to go only six months ago i said if only the star ratchet way bigger . 👍✌👏😁
Hey Jeff i,m down in oz and after stripping my third hope pro 4 rear hub drive ring i obviously have way to much torq in my huge legs haha i do climb stupid stuff .
Anyway i was just saying dt need to make there ratchet rings bigger to accommodate more teeth equals higher engagement. For me the engagement is super important its make it or not around 100poe is minimum. I love your vids but your not a tech climber in my eyes anyway not being mean i would love to work with hub companies to make things better strength poe then bearing are my priorities you can normally put better bearings in most hubs oh and no alloy freehub bodies please . 😁👍✌
Have you tried Onyx hubs? They’re all I trust on my bmx bike but I don’t know how I feel about them for mountain biking
I hate the pulsing sound these ratchet freehubs make that keeps changing pitch back and forth while rolling at a constant speed. I have a 350 hub and it's all I notice in all my pov videos. I really wish silent hub technology trickled down to the mid range as I'm not ready to dish out the price of a used bike for a rear hub.
“New ripmo. Wink wink nudge nudge”!!! Please tell me a new one is dropping 🤩
Drivetrain fails: good your I9 are lasting as my hydra chews bearings and my mate has snapped his i9 axle and had a total pawl failure. DT authentic however seem to last forever with a little grease every now and again. I have old hubs that still run just fine on original bearings after almost a decade
hey jeff! i used your link to buy some sc reserves with the DEG hubs. hopefully it worked.
The only hub that has failed me intermittently is a Shimano XT hub. Every once in a while it wouldn't engage and it would almost make me go OTB.
try cheap roval wheels that come on NX builds :D those ones die so fast I haven't seen any not dying
@@ostankovalex1176 @ostankovalex1176 I expect cheap wheels to not be all that reliable. But Shimano XT level products shouldn't fail like this.
Don’t know if I would call it a full driveline failure like a chain slip and what not but halfway in a 10 mile loop I had a pedal rip out of a crank as I landed a drop lol it ended badly then the 5plus mile hike back to the car 😅
I was waiting for you to compare the ONYX hub, but alas there is no comparison to it. Lol
Just like some peoples kids, they only make themselves apparent when they fail 🤣🤣🤣
Does higher engagement exaggerated pedal kickback issues with suspension it seems like the slower engagement would give a little slack as the wheels rotating
Love seeing the Ripley AF again. Love that ride and mine is still going strong. Thanks for the great videos
Does this mean you don’t need to remove the spline ring to access the drive side hub shell bearing? If so, huge
yikes... my hubs just depreciated hard.
Not really DT's are bombproof and you bet the aftermarket will come with a 90t too, I'm still curious about the new stuff Imma get one set 🎉😅
haha! the difference would be more engagement basically?
hydra is cool and loud but to me it always sounds like you kinda have sand in your hub. low key rough sounding.
Just got that hub too. Love the sound but it sadly isn't too loud.. Even though I took out all of the grease😅
just like some peoples kids they only make themselves apparent when they fail
Ah, what about the sprag clutch. The best engagement of them all.
Awesome jacket! Hawes is killer!
love the new DEG sound. sounds meatier than i9.
Is it not time to embrace silence with instant engagement? I know, a little heavier. But I think I'm ready to try a dead silent hub. Have you tried one? Something like the Box One Stealth or Onyx?
@00:00 “you hear that?…”
I’d really rather not. 😑
Hope pawl hub. Works a charm and is more durable. I9 isn't too bad either. Best hub was the 240s though.
I feel like this goes without saying but…. It’s not compatible with old dt hubs (240s specifically) ?
I think the ultra high engagement points is right up there with cables going through the head set. The reason DT Swiss made those rings bigger is because with the small rings the high number of teeth would start slipping when a lot of force is being applied.
You obviously haven’t serviced a dt hub ( takes 1 minute) vs worked on ridiculous headset bearing cable routing. Huge difference bud. One is purposeful. The other is pure aesthetics
@@emveeess839 my point went right over your head. The high engagement points is not about complexity, but about being useless - unless you do trials. Not to mention the pedal kick-back that people address now with OChain cranks that do exactly what low points of engagement does.
Well, not exactly like an Ochain. An Ochain reduces kickback always while low engagement only reduces kickback in between the points of engagement.
I wonder why you didn't like the Continental tires that much. You can run them with very low pressure and they work super great in the wet.
Looks like a great innovation from DT. It will be interesting to see how that larger Ratchet ring, that is machined out quite a bit to make them lighter, lasts for heavier/stronger riders. I'm 196cm (6'5"), 120Kg . I have tried and destroyed within a low mileage, then dumped, various brands' hubs including I9, Stans etc until I found DT Swiss hubs. HOWEVER, my first experience with any new DT swiss wheels has not been good. For example I had new EX511 with 350 hubs on a bike where I destroyed the Free hub bearings and ratchet within 200km. These were replaced under warranty but with the Steel Free hub and Un-machined out 32 or 36 teeth rather than the original 54 teeth ratchets. Apparently I put out too much power for the Lightweight Original ratchets and Aluminium free hub. The wheel has been going strong since then. I experienced the same with new 1900 Hybrid wheels after taking them straight out the box and testing in the driveway. I purchased these ebike wheels for my analogue bike because I was after the stronger steel Free hub and thicker spokes. After warranty replacement of the ratchets, I have put good trouble free mileage on them too. Overall I like the DT Swiss once I ironed out the bugs.
None of our bikes have DT hubs... but one of them, my 2009 Stumpie, has DT rims.
I had a 2019 Ibis HD4 GX build, 160/153mm drop, medium frame with Mercury rims and stock Ibis hubs. 3-pawl in rear. I broke a pawl on the rear hub at Big Sky Montana and it was not fun as the pedals would continue to move forward while coasting downhill. After hitting a local shop, they removed the one broken pawl, so I had 2 left for the weekend. Sketchy. Once back in Utah, I had a DT Swiss 240 54t installed and it's been buttery bulletproof ever since. Love those hubs.
I recently put a Hope Pro 5 rear hub on my newer Ibis HD6 XT build. So far so good, but much quieter than I expected. At least it's a cool purple on the Lavender Haze bike.
8:14 Way to trigger trauma in your audience Jeff.
Well, you missed out! One of my favorite Hub‘s is the DT swiss 240, but above that, and totally different then, the onyx vesper! The reason I like the DT swiss is the simplicity, and on the other hand, the onyx is just bad ass, but not so simple. And also comes with a weight penalty. But the sound of that baby is the greatest! I have upgraded my 240s to the 54 tooth ratchet and do like the engagement but getting back on to something like an 18 to 20 engagement. It’s almost hard when you’re used to the high engagement. I almost fell over trying to get the what seemed like a quarter term before my peddling started to engage. Enjoy the ride and rubber side down unless you’re whipping or flipping
Never liked high engagement hubs. Switched out on my bike for HEH from stock specialized wheels. Under braking in chunk and getting back up to speed in chunk would jerk the pedals with high engagement hubs. Especially in high gears. Also creeping into steeps it would ratchet my cranks back out of position as my suspension compressed.
Not a fan.
As a 50-year-old 215 lb 5ft 8inch life long rider, I have sent a few drive train parts to an early retirement. The one that jumps to mind first is about 4 year's ago I had been working on cleaning a section of a climb that has roots and rocks in all the good line choices way making easy fun into hard earned fun. Long story in short form I decided speed was my friend like it always had been (not really) and I launched my bowling ball ish body up this mean old hill. Near the top things were going a little too well for my skill set and I placed my front wheel in the perfectly wrong spot while still all on the power with too weight all on my right leg and snap. Well, I cleared the section, but my Roscoe was left behind. I went full OTB, earning myself the opportunity to get a new and better chain, and that helmet that had maybe 10 rides in it also needed to be retired. Luckily, I have way too much falling experience and rolled out of it softly on some really soft rocks and roots. Bruised but not broken, I took my Roscoe for a nice long walk/push back to the van.
Enjoy the ride
Shame on you for wearing your house slippers outside! LOL. Day before a XC race, my rear hub exploded. My local bike shop saved the day by fixing it in time. God bless the local bike shops.
Sounds like they copied chris king lol
Now they just need to expand it to the 350 hub. I don't see OEMs springing for a 240 hub on anything other than builds with 5 digit price tags. Hopefully they will make a retrofit kit so existing hubs can be upgraded, like the ratchet upgrade kits for the 370s.
I got the Chinese 60 tooth ratchet it was fine for me because DT didn't make superior engagement. Now I'm fkd I have to open the wallet.
*Edit to me it matters, parking lot trial skills are the best 😂🎉
Are they planning to make the larger diameter ratchet in a lower engagement version too? I would love that for my fat bike, where I have killed every hub I've put on it so far (although so far so good with an 18 tooth DT Swiss hub that I installed after the last failure). I assume the larger ratchet should be even more bombproof.
I have tried Hadley, P321 quiet, I9 1/1, Ibis Logo low and high engagement hubs. You really need 72 points of engagement on a hub 4-5 degrees of engagement minimum. You should try the new Ibis Logo hubs with the new 6 pawl driver (72 degrees). Great bang for the buck. I think that the P321 and Hydra's are a little overkill for 99 percent of riders. The Ibis shops say that the Logo hubs last longer than the Hydras before needing to be rebuilt.
Those upgrade kits are around $100. D: I don't why I'm shocked but there was definitely some sticker shock there.
Couldn’t agree more regarding the Conti tyres and wet/cold conditions. Purchased a Kryptotal rear and was back on the maxis a day later. Very unpredictable and just wouldn’t hold grip. Glad it’s not just me. Fantastic reviews all round.
high engagement also means lots of drag. The i9 hydra is one of the SLOWEST hubs out there. Of all the hubs out there. Onyx is the only one I want to build up with.
Ive often wondered if the amount of engagement being more translates to weaker overall durability. Seeing fewer teeth means the material should be thicker and wear better? Just wondering since you would be the ideal person, who has seen considerable wear on his hubs. BY THE WAY- awesome work on your videos as always. Truly a learning/ entertaining experience.
Upgraded my bontrager hubs to 108poe sounded cool until the drive ring "delaminated" from the hub body and I started spinning in place 😂 turned my Spire into a giant balance bike.
Hi there, love the videos!!
Saw you ride a carbon renthal fat bar, how do you like it?
when I was 10 I had an adult size bike I was peddeling as hard as I could broke the chain landed on the frame with my nuts and because the bike was so big I had a hard time reaching the ground still hate that bike 😅😅
I love this, DT Swiss is awesome!
I feel the exact same way about those Xynotals! Basically, if I wouldn't run an Aggressor I won't run the Xynotal.
What are your thoughts on super high engagement hubs and pedal kick back?
Good video, nice flow on trails 🤙🏽
I still think that Shimano hubs are the golden standard but who am I lol I just like super quiet hubs.
Can't wait for my Qvist freehub... ratchet with 120 poe
On their configurator online, it looks like it’s about 45g heavier than the EXP 54 system
Only here for the soundcheck...
The amount of grease in a hub makes a big difference to sound. Personally I like em quite.
My minimum PoE is 72, I thought 54 was good until I tried 72, 90 feels better and 120t feels pretty good almost instant like a 692, but favorite is the soft instant engagement of sprag feels more natural with that soft engagement. The main advantage of high engagement is technical climbing, anything less than a 72poe and I can't do much tech climbs so that is the minimum but higher like 120 climbs even better.
I know this is a DT Swiss video, but like 1 1/2 years ago, I bought some Bontrager Line Comp 30s with their hubs. 108 poe. Was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't looking for that high engagement as I'm not good enough to take advantage of it. But it does sound pretty nice on the trail by myself.
Originally they were specced with 54 with the ability to go up to 108. But when I bought them, they had just switched to 108 as a standard.
"will the higher engagement make a difference?"
proceeds to trials over the rocks!
Appreciate the nice subtle videography transitions that make it a joy to watch. Well done on the edits! Content is awesome too!
8:02 yeahhh i9 hydra still a winner 🤘
Hahaha the "spaghettiiii!" @ 7:51 made me lol
Didn't know you're still rocking the Ripley AF!
These look nice but I'm fine with my standard DT hubs for now
On my old bike had a derailleur hanger snap, lucky i wasn't in the trail
Bring back the Galbraith ride vlogs like May 2020
Drivetrain failure story: One summer I blew up a freehub body, then a couple weeks later, I blew it up again after replacing bearings and ring/pawls. I was in a bug infested trail - walking out pushing my bike sucked - it was the first day of a riding road trip to Whistler. I was lucky enough that a friend worked at the distributor who could not only replace the broken freehub parts but upgrade the shattered bearings... 3 weeks later, on one of my favorite loops, on the climb I started hearing the tell-tale creaking telling me to soon expect a blown up hub. I turned around, thought I'd Aaron Gwin my way back downhill to the trailhead (no pedalling pretending I'm chainless). I was at 32 KM/hr (what my Garmin told me), when the hub internals lodged together to make my hub go fixie while I was still in climbing gear (to make sure all the mechanical advantage was there to launch me into space). Upon landing in a rock garden, I broke my pelvis in 2 places, 2 ribs and my wrist in 3 places. I hobbled back to my van for about an hour and drove myself to the hospital knowing some serious shit had happened. Since then, I have only trusted DT Swiss and I9.
And I don't care at all about points of engagement. I've tried super buzzy hubs and less buzzy... forgot I was doing an experiment to compare which tells me that unless I become the next World Trials Champ, points of engagement is meaningless to me... except for whatever brand of hub sound gets me horny.
What silent hub options do we have besides Onyx Vesper?
House slippers sound comfy whilst on a bicycle
Not for E-Bike use 😞