I really want the season to change hemispherically. Summer in the north winter in the south forcing trade caravans to transport materials for different materials with the cross road middle of the map having less of seasonal changes making the north and south regions integral to the server economy.
the whole point here is to be realistic except it falls flat when you realize that the size of the world is 300 km2. For context, Germany is 357,000 km2.
@@11th_defender51 the whole point is to make players move from the dead center of the map and creating trade routes throughout the game. It's a video game with continents and varying biomes that are incredibly small compared to their real world counter parts... what is your point exactly?
You could make some rare materials appear in certain nodes, and set a node min level requirement for that material to grow there. With that, you force players, even from other nodes, to invest there and collect those rare things. This could not only work with materials, but also with many other things in the game.
Not english native here... But I like your idea, and Im watching the development of the game and already saw a lot of things that fans put in the comentary of the mensal live or in the videos of youtube come to reality, try there !!!
Like a growing jackpot for getting a node to that level. Once the jackpot is large enough, groups will fight to take it. Even if the meta would then be rotating the nodes, it'll still be more interesting than holding the same nodes all the time.
You could also make certain materials appear during specific events too, and that those materials are more rare outside of those events, to encourage people to do the events to get the mats. Sure it might FEEL like forced participation, but imagine only being able to get high level dragon scales needed for a certain thing, and you as a crafter have to go and farm it, you can totally make that into you personal RP adventure! Or you can buy it from players who've participated in the events. At least to me that would make it more exciting as someone who like crafting and farming mats, and it would feel awarding too. Hopefully you get a bif reagent/material storage tho xD
@@Soul-Burn The idea is for resources to be regional and for high concentration deposits to spawn at times to provide both a point of contention and enough resources to keep the base economy moving. Rotating nodes will probably happen on some server or other, but there wont be a need for it if trade routes develop properly.
For the caravan system, you should be able to setup a caravan as a trap for pvp invaders. It would set a risk factor to attackers, since losing your actual looted caravan is also high risk.
I'm glad Asmon takes time to react to these videos. It's pretty much guaranteed that his feedback will reach Stephen's ears and he can actually take action to prevent unintentional bad game design. Like what Asmon was saying about the Nodes. Great input and feedback.
Company-funded mmos have a higher chance of getting released than a mmo funded by crowds (tho, most if not all of the crowd-funded mmos didn't even get an actual release and stay as beta.) Ashes of creation are founded by the community and that alone is already a red flag, every mmo enthusiast should probably know the patterns by now.
@@batmeme9349 IIRC the game is funded by the CEO and not backers, sure they allowed people to spend money to get some things but the money was unnecessary for the games creation.
My most concern about the Node System is that big streamers can just overrun everything. They could make people vote for them, crash others etc. A simple example was just r/place where streamers could nuke a picture in seconds.
that would be if true if the only way to become mayor is through a voting process. in ashes it depends on what type of node you're into like what peon explained in the video. you can become mayor either through voting( in which streamers will definitely abuse), a last man standing pvp for a military node, or who finished the most quest becomes the mayor. you're also forgetting the fact that nodes can be destroyed and as we all know, most of the streamers' white knights won't have good gear and are not good in pvp as they're only in it for the fun. so normal players on an attacking node will definitely destroy a "streamer" node. finally, if you happens to be in a "streamer" node then you can just leave as soon as you find out while it's still the early stages and just go to other nodes that are far or nearby.
@@edwardnewgate9834 Yeah, I agree. Streamers are definitely going to become mayors of scientific and economic nodes (simps' donations :D). If a streamer becomes the mayor of a military node, then shit, they probably deserved it. Controlling a castle might be harder since you can't cheese it unless the holders literally surrender.
Lineage is clearly a main source of inspiration for this game - Ships, water monsters, most of the raids are open world, only a handful of instances, sieges, guilds and guild wars etc. It's amazing how concepts that are more than 20 years old can be reinvented with modern day capabilities - dynamic cities, castles, opening or closing zones dynamically, player driven economy that evolves based on how areas evolve. I'm looking forward to this!
I just love how the game has legitimately interactive systems that are designed around pushing players to INTERACT with each other. So many MMOS are meh because they’re asocial and dont take advantage of the biggest draw to MMOS which are other players. Genuienly looking forward to this
Either that or other players are in one way or the other only *'rivals'* or even *'roadblocks'* like in... well... good old Vanilla wow. One of it's biggest drawbacks I ever noticed by myself. The openworld PvP was everything to me since it was NOT balanced and you could just steamroll or get completely steamrolled. Just like in a *real* war. And it was fun. But when it came to mining ore's other players were a menace. Especially those of the OWN faction ironically since you couldn't attack those when they got to an ore just 1 or 2 seconds earlier than yourself. While you could still fight over it against a player from the other faction. And in vanilla there were no _"shared"_ ore's like those in the modern expansions in which you are basically in your own phasing when it comes to them. Never knew how to feel about it. One one hand it was realistic. On the other hand it was very annoying. Farming Arcanitcrystalls was... °sigh° well... it was fun back then. But nowadays...? I wouldn't like it as much anymore.
Yep. A lot of people like to shit on ESO, but having played WoW, SWTOR, FFXIV, BDO, and several others, ESO provided this interactive experience for me, ranking it as my all time favorite MMO experience that captured me from launch to about 2019. As a PvP'er there was a lot of GvG drama that happened in several of the pvp campaigns I was in, and in a way, making the alliances feel the stakes were higher even though they really weren't. There was a lot of competition between factions and between specific guilds as well. Sometimes within the same faction. It was more than war for cyrodiil, it was displaying dominance. Yeah I know it sounds pathetic lol but to experience our own game of thrones organically in a game where im only expected to stand on flags in a castle was so much fun, and it kept me playing for years and years. I'd still be playing if I didn't have a kid and all my friends were still there.
This is gonna turn into another classic phase 2. Militaristic elections my ass, There'll be one fat goblin like asmongold who has 5 guys fighting for him to ensure he wins. if there is a possibility for degeneracy it'll happen. Plus this game is setting up to be the biggest FOMO builder of all MMOs so far. Cant take breaks or u lose progress. The fact that so far it has so little focus on story and themes means this game is doomed to a short life.
I think the node system is great, but I get concerned about dying servers. Nodes can de-level, so a dying server will be exacerbated by the world dying as well, not just player base dropping. Then when they have to merge servers, people will have weapons and armors that should not yet exist on those servers, since these things are unlocked by advancing nodes. When a server gets shut down, the hardcore players on that server that invested so much time into node, castle and freehold buildings will get screwed over. Server degradation is inevitable, so players will have to deal with it until final consolidation of long term players are established.
People might want to de rank a node down to the ground while no one wants to help defend it. It might become new world all over again where the top 2 pvp clans group together and destroy every single node around them. I've more worries about the game but I'll see what happens when it launches
@@MoistYoghurt If they did so, their node would die. As nodes grow, they vassalize the nearby nodes, which feed them experience. There are a bunch of other systems involved as well. New World never knew what it wanted to be when it grew up, which just made a disorganized mess.
Actually, that may not be the problem you think it is. Players will simply congregate to population centers, leaving a large part of the server 'wild' Meaning more cool places to explore. On a full server, every node may be occupied, and no wilderness left to be found. Now, should this happen, Intrepid will need to come up with content for 'wild' nodes.
I’m thinking of a possible resolution for the hardcore players. when they reach a certain milestone, they can access to a unique world/server called “God realm” and they can move in between their base server/world and the “God realm”. Therefore, in cases of the server dying, they can still access to their own achievements, progression of their base world and can still play in an environment that guaranteed to have players that are on the same boat as them. Making the delete of obsolete, dying server and merging is somewhat meaningless. This is just an quick thought of mine in just minutes or so, feel free to give suggestion or raising your viewpoint against it.
I have been following the game from the beginning and I am definitely curious about what will come from it. However, I see many complex systems that will not be easy to balance around or might not even have the desired effect on the community. For me, and I am probably the minority here, sometimes less is more, and I feel like games are becoming a second job rather than something to enjoy and have fun because the tendency is to overcomplicate how they play. Lets hope for the best :)
Yeah, there are a lot of idealistic theory but no talk about the practical effects. The adaptatively difficulty boss is the worst offender imo, it will just make players calculate how to kill the boss showing their worse performance, it will make players intentionally reduce their effectiveness in combat, that is simply anti-fun. People complaining about the meta-players/minmaxers destroying fun don't realized that actually that's the expected thing, it's a game, people will always go by the least resistant path to achieve something. The responsibility of limiting the rules so the optimal meta path is actually fun is on the devs.
@@flinkstiff Yes, there are a lot of solutions to this problem. But the devs should show their solutions preemptively, they should design with these practical effects as a priority. The way they don't talk about those things (at least in this video) makes it seem like they are falling to the trap of trying to make the most idealized version of their game in their heads not the best version of it.
Totally right, it already feels completely overwhelmingly complex and even worse for the programming part. Hardcoded things can easily be adjusted, but dynamic, self-adjusting and player driven systems are exponentially harder to grasp and adjust and humans are very very very good in finding exploits, especially for griefplay. Building such an open system you can only think about and control a certain amount of options and players will find more ways around it the more possibilities there are. Personally, I see it becoming a PK dumpster fire because in these games PvP / PKing always is superior and if you can also destroy peoples work and steal their stuff this is going to be a griefplay paradise. Big roleplaying capabilities just because of character design? The first time that huge tavern that roleplayers spent months on building is completely deleted because PvPers destroyed the hub you know what the roleplayers are going to do: Cancel their subscription.
I think a good solution for the nodes and how to handle leveling the ones that left behind would be random events. A thing that ESO does is it releases events for older zones , so you have players constantly shifting through them. While it would not be optimal I think it would be the first thing that they can try if levels become an issue. Let's say a couple of cities start falling behind, they can create a treshold for traffic. Once a node drops below it , it gets included into a pool of low traffic zones, than a random roll can determine where the event whill start. It can be in the sort of a node disaster or something where it would drive players to visit the node and fight elite mobs and bosses for a better drop chance or something. Random, unpredicted chance is by far the best counter to the mid maxing behaivior players tend to go for. A good example for that is actually a strategy game Crusader Kings 2. You can build the biggest empire there and it can all fall apart due to a couple of bad events that are out of your control, something happens and you deal with the consequences of it and I think this dynamic where the game tries to trow curveballs at the playrbase is by far the mosst fun experience. Or lets say a city is way too populated, trow in a plauge or something that will slow it down so the others may catch up, stuff like that.
I played Silkroad Online when I was a teen. The caravan system with traders/thieves/hunters was really cool and dynamic - eventually you get to know the other thieves and hunters on your server too and know who to avoid
I am very excited for Ashes and Riot's MMO. I think those two in particular, if launched correctly and the hype can be sustained past the two week threshold. We got two amazing MMO's coming in the future.
The mmo i've been more invested was BDO. Exploring the world for the first time, discovering every location, learning how every profession worked, trying some classes and mastering my main class. It was a long time and i had a lot of fun. The progression to get far was slow but i didn't care, there was just so much i had to do, i didnt want to rush. Then, they added new content, with that, early stages of the game became just useless, they started giving everything for free just to rush you to get the new things, with even grindier things. The feeling of discovery became old, and the game started to be afk professions.
@@aSmolGoth Yeah, i remember when i played the first time, upgrading gear to +15 like wow, and then using the, at that time, rare stones for PRI. Now they give everyone TRI gear, and you need to do failstacks which is a HORRIBLE system. You are not rewarded for grinding a piece of gear, you are rewarded for pure RNG when enchanting. A friend started the game, got a late boss helmet in like 2 days and got it to PEN first try and the same with a weapon. And then you can play for a month and don't have a single PEN piece because of rng. It just doesn't know how to reward players, you even have daily rewards, with event boxes where, if you are lucky, you can get lifeskill tools that are just sooo expensive to get, for pure rng. Its like in wow you connect every day and you play a roulette where you can get a ultra rare mount that you can only get y doing a ton of achivements. That mount would stop being special, and just a pure meme. Bdo is such a wasted mmo is just sad...
In regards to the "meta cities" in a game. I think out of my mmorpg life, ( funny enough ) Lineage2 in my time expansions was the best I've ever experienced, where the main cities were a few depending on the level range you were at. There was always the busy Giran or the higher level stuff Aden and Oren, but you'd find good trade ( and sometimes even better prices on mats ) on low level Towns of Gludio and Dion. People were literally trading EVERYWHERE and the merchant side of the game was insanely well balanced and fully player controlled.
When it comes to Node i think it would be fun to have those village suffer from monster invasion occasionally so that it shows that making a big community comes with it's challenge over time, that way a big town would find it hard to stay without proper support and it would add content as some might cultivate a big node just for the sake of fighting those monster invasion events And maybe if they fail to defend town it gets heavily damaged and if they fail to defend it multiple time in a row, they can even be completely destroyed Of course this would only happento the big boys town that are on top of them all, that way there is a risk involved in living in a superior town Edit : Aight I get it, unlike y'all I'm not completely obsessed with a mmo that will come out in 5 years.... The only things I looked at are classes races and some lore I commented this very early in the video too and forgot about this comment
I agree, they need to watch what happened in New World and not allow ONE faction to take over a map. Also, any taxes that are earned should be placed in a "bank" for town use ONLY. That money should not be available to buy better gear or advance individual players.
Can confirm what JMard said, Taxes can only be taken out of the town coffers by raiding tax caravans (sending the taxes to a node you're the vassal of), or by using them as part of the upgrades for the town itself. Mayors are not allowed to draw taxes out of the system.
Because of the climate system, nodes in farther parts of the map can offer something unique all the time. The middle areas on the cost might have ports, but they don't always have the best resources. The edges might have the ores, lumber, cloth, leather etc. etc. They also might have them all season compared to other places.
I think Port nodes will be the most powerful economically, but if you have a lot of dungeons that are tied to nearby nodes that pretty far inland, that's going to be the motivation to build up those nodes
I agree, port nodes will be very very valuable, just like irl too. Ships moving goods to the closest city to it's final destination to then take a caravan will be incredibly important.
11:00 put the most valuable minerals only into those mountains. For the real world that would be something like gold and iron(for medieval times ofc) probably. Notes at the cost will be valubable for trading, notes at the top for mining. the island one is probably really hard to capture bc its an island, so maybe the guild controlling the mountains will set their main city there.
Star Wars galaxies had a lot of this and was amazing, the taverns were always full because there were dancers and musicians there giving buffs to people, this created huge social hubs where friends bonded
@@shawnstoddard7434 the NRG everyone protested saying it would ruin it….ruined it. Especially as someone who did the Jedi grind which took fooking ages “oh here’s a Jedi for you”
One thing that worries me about this game is that the hardest raids will be in the open world. This is a fun idea in theory, but in practice it just means that there is only 1 guild per server that ever gets a chance to do that content(since it usually takes a week to respawn). Unless they change their mind about contested raid content, or find some method of phasing that allows all guilds to attempt the content, the end game pve raid scene is DOA.
Hopefully rewards will be for everyone and the Red system will be more punishing and death will be serious(like lost loot serious) so that bully aggressive guilds dont beat the boss and then have a permanent advantage for the rest of the servers life. Imagine if killing people stopping a city ending disaster boss made you Red. And being Red could make you capable of dropping any recently won loot(1 or 2 ACTIVE DAYS) upon death. No killing 3 guilds on the world boss taking the loot then disconnecting for 1 day etc. Or remove guilds and make "Nodes" the guilds and let nodes balance itself out.
Since when did every player need to complete all the content in a game. We make a choice to stay in a smaller guilds that cant compete. We make a choice to mainly be a solo player. We make a choice to play with a huge guild and be a part of the crowd but also get to do content that's locked by the former choices. You cant build a game this big and make it so everyone can do everything.
With your node concerns, consider the fact that these nodes can be invaded. So if someone has that really good node with meta buffs, other guilds will seek to take it over. The best node may constantly be under siege basically
Yeah but there will be sweats that get control of the most powerful nodes early and then make it almost impossible for anyone else to get hold of them because… they are the most powerful. Look at what happened to the AH in WoW. People buy out all of a specific but needed item only to relist at a way higher price. How will they stop op groups & cartels of no life sweats forming? I dunno if they can.
The problem is that this is the same as new world. It doesn't really matter if it's constantly on siege because if they are dominating the region they will have more resources to buy/craft better gear, consumables and upgrade the node's defensive systems.
That isn't the case. If you've played any MMO with mechanics like that; eventually the top guilds will form an agreement to either share, or to draw a line in the sand - because ultimately peace is more profitable. Ie. Eve Online, Albion Online.
@@perote3 ye but in new world u can own multiple nodes in ashes ur only affiliated to 1 node if u decide to be the master of the best node in the game u will spend all ur life defending it
@@perote3 I get where you're coming from but the difference, I think, is that the world is so massive, and has so many nodes, that there is almost certainly going to be other guilds strong enough to siege the node. It's hard to imagine anyone snowballing that fast unless the guild is full of gigachads or something.
"nodes are not owned by guilds" didnt asmon just explain that sufficiently coordinated groups of players with enough resources can justtake over a node via wintrading (in the combat-election type)? also, if someone becomes mayor, and is in a guild, that town is now guild-controlled.
Thats cool, just have a bigger guild move into the node and take it over, its going to be crazy seeing the politics unfold between a few different factions in a node, while the loser of that scuffle will be forced or choose to leave the node on their own volution.
Tell me you don't know about AoC without telling me. Guilds have no reason to own nodes, being a mayor does not benefit them in the slightest. Top pvp guilds are gonna Fight for castles. There are 5 castles in the game that are pvp zones. Its beneficial for a top PVP guild to own a castle because that's where multiple node profit goes in exchange for protection and other benefits. Mayors only use tax revenue to build the city. Also top tier guilds gonna be citizens of multiple nodes so guild can benefit from all of them.
@@misao6397 Well maybe you are right I'm on copium. But you said guilds will own nodes just for bragging rights. Ok so now they have their guild leader as mayor. Sounds good means nothing. What is he gonna do? Build the city? Or maybe raise taxes high so everyone who is not in the guild leaves this node? What happens when king of the castle (one of the top 5 pvp guild leader) sees one of his mayors not paying him tax or ruining city in his kingdom. Also if you want to be mayor of another node you cant be mayor of this one anymore. So you can have one node maybe under your control if you are Asmon or someone huge maybe you can take few but it still means nothing since you want buildings in your city to be there so you can play. Also smaller guilds have better perks then huge guilds so when creating a guild they might wanna minmax number of players to get best perks. But if you are small guild you cant do much regarding to node system. You can contribute for sure after. Bigger guilds would have problems moving around a lot since to cross the world (480sq km) it would take a human 2.5 to 4.5 hours to traverse a straight line up/down or across such a map. and there is no effective way to summon large grps of people. Mayors don't own the city they just decide what you are building next and people need to contribute resources for that thing to be built. It is a good illusion of power.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Nodes are owned by citizens and you could end up fighting your guild mates in a node war since guild mates will be in multiple nodes so they can get all the benefits you guild needs. You are citizen 1st then guildmate in this game. If you are crafter you don't want to be citizen of military nodes. If you are pvper you would probably buy citizenship in military metropolis. Crafting gear is BIS so pvpers need crafters to sustain them since gear probably will not be permanent and it will have to be regularly repaired by high lvl crafters who have high lvl buildings in their metropolis. Castle gonna be for pvp guilds as well as guild wars, caravans gonna be world pvp content, and for hardcores you have instances arenas 2v2 3v3 5v5. With that said relationship between nodes are going to be important. Node sieges enable players to destroy nodes. This paves the way for new development and access to the locked content in surrounding nodes. Due to this dynamic, political strife and intrigue play an important role in the structure of the world. Sieging nodes will not be an easy task for the attackers. Cities and metropolises will have a considerable defensive advantage. Also separate guild roles are reserved for small, medium and large guilds.
@@misao6397 Just don't play on streamer servers and you are gonna be fine. You indeed need a large group of coordinated idiots to do stuff like that. I understand that people always exploit/minmax games but you need to have huge following to ruin few nodes out of 103 per server. And most streamers are not gonna do that anyways. Could be that i am a bit bias because i mainly pvp and i play a lot so take it with grain of salt.
@@Brekner the gameplay in Silkroad Online and RDR were completely different. Didn’t feel so bad to loose anything and you can’t really just be a dickhead and steal shit. You had to get into specific pvp gear called Thief and you immediately get flagged for everyone on the server to kill. However only the Trader and the Protectors of the convoy will get a bonus payment if successfully killed the Thief.
Caravan System is so fun, i loved it on Archeage, raiding other ppl caravans, and maybe even more fun was moving your own safely, it was always a thrill. And then u had some bosses that drop expensive items that u had to transport to a specific point to colect them and u could get robbed, so not only u had to kill the boss u had to protect yourself form other ppl
Dunno if there already is, but I think is a good idea adding a sort of timeline where is recorded every event happening in the world For example: 22/06/2022 got to level 5 under Mayor 29/06/2022 clear raid X 2/07/2022 Started siege war for taking down Can be useful for players to keep track of events and, especially for new player, create a sort of link with the in-gmae events
31:54 THIS. I'm super cynical with regards to all the systems. Sure they can add a bunch of systems, but that doesn't make it good. They'd have to strike a very hard balance between making all these systems interesting/fun enough for players to want to engage with them, and not too complicated as to scare them away, on top of that they'd need to balance them all. I hope they can do it, but i highly doubt it.
A solution to a node being meta might be to have some sort of decay to them. Kinda like if a country is using up a resource. If the node buff quality diminishes over time there might be less need to play around with the nerf bat. Just need a long cool down in the background for how long a node needs to recover. For event detection the graphics and such indicating is cool but some text is likely needed. I agree that it being on the hud is too 4th wall breaking. There is a whole world of NPCs whose dialog could be used to speak on what they see in the world to indicate the events.
the caravan system in silk road online was amazing... and the jobs related such as merchant, thief and guard which each had thier own benefits was also great... if this is similar then it will be a big hit..
I'll be excited when they update their roadmap with an actual date for Alpha 2. They haven't given a hard deadline and its been a year since Alpha 1. Remember there is still a Beta 1 and Beta 2 before release...
When it comes to WoW, I don't think that just a good trial version would be enough. I was willing to pay and did pay for multiple months, but I still couldn't get into the game. The experience for a person that knows nothing about the game is just horrible. The leveling experience was pretty much: Select a zone from a bunch of options which you knew nothing about, do couple quests and someone is yelling at you in a quest form that you should go to another zone. So I never managed to finish any of the zones or create any kind of bond or emotions towards the game world. I did hit the max level, but had absolutely no idea what I was supposed to do to get better gear, it was never explained in the game what kind of gearing progress it uses and I tried the most usual ways that mmos use. Running dungeons only gave me same ilvl gear, raids I either couldn't queue or the queue would just not pop up. I did not find an npc that exchanges gear for some tokens, nor did I have any idea about economics of the game so buying with gold that I didn't have was not an option.
For the Open World Raid, they could do like Bozja in FFXIV. You register for the raid upcoming in group or solo and its lock after the group is complete.
A lot of people are sceptical and rightfully so. Balancing all this stuff is crazy ambitious, but what concerns me the most is that there is no sense of stability in the game. If towns can rise and fall just like that, if mounts aren't permanent, if you can loose your stuff in an attack, sorry but that doesn't sound like fun to me 😬
It’s definitely not for all for sure,for those who like it.They like the fact that there are real stakes that can influence their characters different from how some games make the drawbacks for losing an event too miniscule for you to care.
world pvp on time limited world bosses? node system? many of the things said here could end up with similar problems as new world did when a guild dominated a server, it'll cause players that arent from that guild's "clique" to not get access to the best stuff and slowly cause the server those happen to die in terms of playerbase, faction/world pvp/competition is nice and all but moment you give too many rewards to the winners and punish the losers, things start to escalate, the losers will simply leave and move to another server or just leave the game entirely.
Peon forgot to mention this but you can respec your secondary class, but also they're not as impactful as your primary class, so it is not a 50-50 split. A close example I can give is similar to the glyphs you add to your skills in wow or diablo3, but probably a little more in depth than that.
@@zacharyshort384 Secondary class allows you to augment your skills certain way rather than giving you additional skills. That's why i gave that example, there will be other gameplay aspect of it too most likely, but yeah don't expect it to be 50/50.
@@Luniaril This is probably better in the name of balance. Balancing 8 classes with different flavors is probably easier than balancing 64 almost completely different classes.
@@Marxist-Nixonist-Bidenist Well I would not argue it would be easier to balance that way. That's a given. However, I'm all about creating a unique build in MMOs. That's the main thing that keeps me interested. Balance is secondary for me ;)
So if I picked summoner-->Tank for "Brood Warden", it would basically give me options to make the summons tanky? I mean I figured that's what it would be I just expected...a little more. I hope there is unique options like thorns etc. Also aesthetics are a thing I hope. Necromancer can't have the exact same summons as every other summoner combo.
Honestly I see this becoming exactly like New World. If you can remove a mayor by force whats to stop the surrounding areas that have the same guild from pooling their resources and just steamrolling your town. Even if they reset it every few months then the areas with more resources would just continue to go unopposed. Its going to create a lopsided playing field similar to the realm migration just with the feel of one of those browser base builder games where you get run off by people who bot or play beyond the normal constraints of human sleep/work. If they even decide to mitigate this by making new rules or guidelines its going to make the system overly complicated. Honestly they need to just make it NPC driven and push more of an achievement based upgrade so the players dont directly influence the outcome of the towns.
one idea for a bit of node balancing is trying it in with the season system, x-city sucks in winter, y-city is awesome in winter. this doesn't remove travel distance from content balancing but im sure someone can come up with something for that, maybe dynamic endgame? or even tying endgame into the season as well, like x-endraid top left of map is easier in winter or grants more loot making z-city near the top left a temporary best choice for player hub.
Hot take from me: I love MMO’s I just also bounce around games. Sometimes I don’t want to play it, I don’t want the /daily/ aspect of it. The monthly sub would be good for those that want a cheaper/subscription based payment, BUT adding in the option (like BDO, or hell any fucking wow expansion) of paying upfront once for the content, I think that would also at least add in value to players similar to myself.
My main concern with the nodes is the first wave of players gets the best experience seeing this fresh world to build on. The later waves come in with metropolises everywhere. I wonder if they could do a specific server that resets the nodes to offer that constant fresh feeling.
I think you will get something like a high level node surrounded by lower level ones that try to destroy it so they can upgrade their own and those again surrounded by lower level ones.
One thing I hope for is that the really high level nodes will require other nodes around to work. After all, at a sertain level of production you need more resources to keep it going. Giving dependencies between different nodes would help with the "Players found one node is the best and are only making that one" concern
Thats exactly how it will work like, your hopes are becoming reality. for example trees in a forest biome vs the need of trees in a desert biome. and abundance of ores in the desert biome but not enough in the swamplands, etc. there will be multiple trade routes between nodes.
Someone else mentioned in the comments that there will be "parent" nodes or "metropolis" nodes and "child" nodes. Essentially there cant be two nodes of equal size near each other unless they border an even bigger node that is their "parent" node.
Yep from what I remember it works like a matushka. Basically a metropol has smaller cities under it. And those cities have towns under them. And the towns have villages under them.
players can level a type of node, but the nodes are assigned a type at world creation. And only 5-6 nodes can be level 6. so if everyone makes a level 6 economic node, no one will be max level or have highest in slot gear (the first requires Divinity nodes, the latter Scientific (crafting) nodes. Military nodes grant max weapon skills. So there is a definite synergy between nodes, and a question as to which node you want to make a level 6.
Speaking to Asmons comment about instanced dungeons and raids. I'm a fan of a PROPPERLY BALANCED game where guilds NEED a crafting or life skill squad, a dungeon or raid squad, and a PVP squad. Even more so if each squad receives benefits based on how well the other two squads preform. Using open world raids as an example, I think it would be hella cool if part of the guild was raiding the dragon nest, while another part was defending the entrance from a rival guild because whoever last hits the raid boss gets access to the mineral nodes in the cave for the next week.
Don't agree with his take on caravans. If only valuables have to be moved via caravan then griefers will attack literally every caravan because it's always worth it to attack them because they always have valuables. You need 'grass' caravans to dissuade them. The idea of not knowing if there are valuables will force players to question whether or not it's worth their time to attack said caravan or do something more productive.
make like this: You the player have a fix number of weight you can carry with your mount so you can move at 100% speed, if you exceed that limit you will be slowed down ur if you go even further you cant move at all, and if you set up a caravan you will be able to carry like 5k kg isntead of just 500 kg as a normal player, so that if you want to move alot of wood or ore that you gatherd in the mountain regions to a city that has skilled blacksmiths you will need a caravan, but you will be slower then your average player on a caravan, and if someone trieds to rob you, since its not a full loot game you should lose up to 30 - 50% of you cargo if you fail to defend yourself. Just like in albion online only that if you die you lose everything, and if you decide to ride on a transport mammoth and die? well lets say have fun working your bud of the next 6 moths to get the money back you lost with just the transport mount. In generall the caravan system is very very easy to set up if you just implement a weight limit for your inventory.
42:20 Guild Wars 2 had the best jumping puzzles ever i swear so many of the systems from guild wars were so cool and engaging, give me a GW3 ArenaNet you bastards
His new world comparison is true, although it caused the 2 other factions to team up and work together to defeat the "winning" faction. Happened on my server and many others.
Silkroad Online Job system was such a good way for Open World PVP to take place. Could just be leveling as a level 30 and all of a sudden a caravan of 3 bulls being chased and fought by a party of thiefs just come through your grinding area. Next thing you know you run away to not grab aggro. Thiefs would have their own town and their whole goal was for them to steal kill you and your transport, pick up your goods then go back to the thief town to sell them. Traders obviously would defend their mounts and goods and could hire HUNTERS who were the cops pretty much. The amount of PvP battles that would happen near towns as a result from this was intense. A lot of them would occur near starter towns so new players could see a system they could do in the future. SRO - such a great game. May have been a simple grind mobs for gear and materials to upgrade said gear, but the amount of social interaction and overall gameplay enjoyment was really what brought the game up in such popularity.
imagine if such an pve event would take place. a massive hostile army would form in response of rapid growth the the node/kingdom alone cant face alone, so in order to defeat it the people of the same node will have to request help from other kingdoms to defeat the army of pve mobs and everybody will get an essential loot from it so its a win win
In the end you can control the worth of nodes with recources and dungeons. You can give the backwater nodes valuable resources that are in high demand or give them an important dungeon so the node acts as hub for adventurers. If node x has access to a special type of tree that only this corner of the world has, then it will become an important merchant town. A real world example would be the arab peninsula which would be one of the most unimportant and unappealing places on this planet if it wasn't for oil. Because of that there are bustling cities in some of the richest countries in history. Or you can simply make some smaller areas the most beautiful places in the game with lush plains and forests and lakes so the poeple want homes there.
I'm excited for this game but am expecting it to fail because of the node and tax system. I think giving power to players sounds fun but you can't give too much power if any because people are fundamentally jerks and people will always find a way to exploit it! No matter how smart game developers might think they are trust me players are smarter and will find a way to ruin it for everyone. You might think oh they can just do patches and fix things but most of the time when the damage is done it's done and you've lost those players. Just like in real life first impressions are everything and if you have players grieving other players through the tax system or whatever and it starts losing a lot of players within the first few months it'll be seen and noticed and now the game has a bad image/reputation and it's over! On the other hand I do hope I'm completely wrong because I would love for this game to succeed.
Yeah problems with these kinds of systems are unavoidable but that's what the testing is for. As long as the devs have a good and dedicated balancing team it should be fine.
I unfortunately agree with you, I'd love to be proven wrong tho, I'm hoping this becomes a somewhat niche option with a healthy playerbase (like Eve Online). This defo feels like a more niche mmo by design Imho
You know if you are in a shitty node you can just leave and become a citizen of a new node and the upkeep is going to completely crush the system of the abusing player. its just like in real life, there is going to be corruption and nepotism and thats just going to be a part of the game.
Mayor tax does not go to mayor but to town reserve and then he uses that money to build buildings he choses and he pays part of the tax to castles for protection and other benefits. If mayor is bad he can be replaced on next cycle if mayor is good town would wanna keep him. That is gonna create social interaction with no real power for mayors.
A thing that might concern me is the town identity. If you make it so that every town is composed of the same buildings from the same racial categories, then the town identities will be entirely hinged upon that and have no personality of their own. A militaristic Orc settlement on the coast of one continent will effectively look exactly the same as a militaristic Orc settlement in the snowy mountains of another. Whereas in other MMOs, each city has the potential to have their own unique aesthetics based off the story and context of the area its in. Unless their building generation is flexible enough for that, I get the feeling that these towns are going to feel like they just have no identity to them like other good MMOs.
I htink there is already automatic randomisation with node building withi the same node type already mentioned. No different to the settings on a table randomising as it coordinates change, that they have already shown.
Ashes of Creation is hosting another dev stream and are taking questions for their Q&A, and this is essentially the question I posed for them. I asked that if AoC is using procedural generation in their nodes to structure settlements, which steps are they taking to make sure a town/city is unique/memorable whilst not becoming messy or unorganised, as players will quickly recognise "patterns" between settlements if nothing more is done to make sure there's a unique personality in each and every one.
Regarding the caravan system - I'm curious about what players will do. When being part of a top guild in early WoW, it was constant that when we went to take a world dragon, while being Alliance, there were other Alliance players that would call on Horde Guilds to come and wipe us out. I can imagine someone signing up to protect a caravan and then just tipping some bandits on how big are their defences and where they are at
The biggest weakness of a game like this is player numbers. The game NEEDS a lot of players to be playable, if nodes become more expensive to upkeep and you don't have the players on the server to contribute then you end up with lategame being soft-locked because there isn't enough resources to unlock it.
I think the biggest weakness of this game is human behavior. People aren't really gonna behave in ways that create fun for everyone. They will dominate areas, abuse power, and self serve. I mean the game is designed around user generated experiences. People kinda suck, especially online and especially when the incentive isn't really there for them to be decent. Unless the developers are very active in preventing oversaturation of power then the game will fail in all the ways Asmongold fears it will.
So only guilds that are incredible big and powerful will control the most powerful nodes. Any big guilds would also evolve surrounding nodes for stratetegic purposes
So will mayors be victorious if you are either- an influencer in real life, you tube creator, twitch gamer... it sounds like mayors all ready have the positions without any contest to me, might be wrong..?
7:35 I think this could be an issue, so balancing the different types of nodes will be very important. Though I do think there is possibility of there being a difference between servers, since I’m sure there’s gonna be people who wanna focus on making money. Economic nodes would probably help them do that better than being a citizen of a militaristic node. I hope this is how it turns out.
Most ambitious game ever when it comes to cooperative gameplay. I love it. This takes me back to the times when graphics were massively improving every 2 to 4 years or so and being a videogamer was exciting above all else. *_Ashes_* gives me that feeling of the developers _"of old"_ that still 'want' stuff and work a dreamjob, and not just a job.
14:00 false. Tax money can only be used to upgrade the Node. So if you have 0% taxes, the Node will get slammed. If you have the highest taxes possible, the Node will be pumped out the ass, not the controlling guild/mayor.
Asmongold is incredibly insightful in this video. His point about the most successful real life “nodes” having ports was spot on. This is why he’s as big as he is.
I hope they delve into the ideas of the node system that the devs in EQ Next was pushing for. Where npc and events would trigger based on "wealth" of the node. i.e. goblin raids, multiple factions pushing for control of the area that will determine the area around the node.
i m rly glad Asmon (and his editors) doing this types of videos, thanks to him i actually know this awesome videos and channels exist and I always know whats going on with the games worldwide. 😊 thank you
Countering the node system having a meta type or best node, is the fact you need to import resources form other nodes. Some resources wont even be available until those nodes reach max level. How are you going to kow whats available, without getting 'all' nodes to max level (which cant happen withotu destroying master nodes) ? Even then, you have the problem with migrating/depletable resources.
The node system is going to have forced pvp in order to get the node you need to the level you need for the quest you want... That's definitely not gonna end well.
The nodes also unlock certain bosses which give players access to different types of gear and cosmetics, so that's one thing to think about. Especially the new quests and rewards, possibly even mounts. This could create great opportunity for sieges and guild wars,.
I love how he does not cover the fact that this is our fun and spare time we're talking about here. Is the majority of players interested in a tax-based social system with workers, mayors, and soldiers, where they remain the lower class dude for weeks because they have a real life? Uh, no. That is why Eve Online is so small. I guess we'll be playing some real adventure games instead...
Yeah that realistically won’t work long term, once people start having that problem they are out. They’ll need to figure out balance for casual players/players with less time. As much as the shitbuckets complain, casuals literally make up most MMOs population. Except for Eve. Which has this problem.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Listen I'm here with ya. I'm a 23 M+ and CE person in WoW. I'm not a casual. I'm coming purely from the business perspective of literally any game. Edit: More people = more money fyi
@@xXSinForLifeXx It's better that way anyways, thankfully the CEO already stated he's not in it for the money but I just hope that can last. If a games not profitable it's going to be hard to keep going is all, even with his money backing it. I think there's more than enough heavily interested people to keep it up but I'm afraid of how prevalent RMT/RWT could be (ArchAge is absolutely famous for it's amount of that)
If this game delivers, we MMORPG lovers hit a jackpot. It’s a game that pretty much has everything that an MMORPG fan imagined since the last 15 years. I just hope they take their time and release a fully functional game. If this game doesn’t deliver though, we’re doomed boys.
Cant wait, the closed alphas have been so fun. I cant decide on what I want to do on release, lots of great offers and choices of what server to be on and to join a guild or start one.
Meta gaming for 'ideal' buffs can only really be a problem if global travel is easy (warp to dungeon) since that would allow you to use that buff for all content. The harder it is to travel the less the ideal matters and the more situational buffs become.. It changes from being about what buff is best to what buff is best for the local situation and that in turn means that the designers can make every buff meaningful and no single buff ideal.
When the combat system "green, purple, red" popped up I was like 'Yep that developer really did play Archeage'. I'm very excited for this because Archeage waas greaat, but the companies running it kept trying to get money out of players and hindered the systems because of it.
So far from what I understand about the node systems they dont give bonuses like +dmg or anything like that. Your personal freehold will give you bonuses based on how you build it. From what's explained currently nodes give you different... abilities. Metropolis will allow a type of travel to subservient nodes in the area. There's one thats a bounty hunter type of thing. etc... All the different nodes will have dungeons and other world bonuses the higher the node goes. So one territory will need to attack the node next to it to get a certain world boss dragon for materials etc. It'll be super interesting, and the current outline for the nodes doesnt really give you that "OH MAN THIS ONE IS GONNA BE META AF WE BETTER RUN THIS NODE"
People need to understand that the cosmetics in the shop are normally going to look leagues ahead of everything else available because the end game gear that will be on the same level or even better in terms of looks will only be accessed after weeks of the games full release. I mean imagine if WoW vanilla sold cosmetics in shop @ lvl 1, you don't even get shoulders/helms until like level 20 in Vanilla so I mean by default the cosmetic store skin that has helm/shoulders will look significantly better.
Finally. Asmon and TheLazyPeon are why I became addicted to Ashes in the first place. Genuinely can't wait for this game, no matter what people think it's gonna be fresh and like nothing else out there.
19:30 This is one of those things that people are going to hate losing that could potentially kill the game. The worst thing that you can do in any game is to punish individual players for the failures of collective players. I know the idea is to incentivize people to come together to defend things, but that's either just not going to happen after a certain point, or people are going to have to be so caught up in defending their nodes to defend their properties that they won't have time to do anything else. Uprooting a player from their node, and the loss of time and resources they may have incurred trying to defend their node from siege, is punishment enough. They should then be able to relocate their housing to another area for a minimal expense. There shouldn't be any more cost to it than that.
lost oasis has a similar system, where you travel around in what is called walkers, where you store every item and stuff, and yes, there is no protection, if you get raided, and you lose, bye bye all your loot, it is a fun game, so
I appreciate everyone giving the development team time to create this game properly. Also, they take EVERY feedback that reaches them. I've heard so many issues brought up, and by the next update they release it has been fixed. They are very open about their development plan as well because they want our feedback before they invest developing something new.
This isn't going to work out except for the most hardcore players that grind 24/7, a casual gamer like myself who at the most got about 4-6 hours a week or even less to invest in games. Imagine being away for 2-3 days and then you login to no housing, a bunch of resources gone and you have to spend those 4-6 hours per week to just regain resources and get a new roof over your head over and over, going to get old real fast. Superfun idea and a nice looking game but the elitists will own every single Node and most likely the servers will have like 2-4 guilds that pretty much rules it all.
yeah the game is looking very hardcore focused, might be fun for the first 2-3 months tho but i dont know if it can last without having a casual playerbase.
@@krison0225 I mean he did do this,try to watch some of his reactions.Some of his vdeos that he was reacting to straight up has less than 20 minutes yet he increases the time by 30 minutes.
I think the weather system will keep the meta Node concern in check. You actually lose a meta lock if there are enough viable options and drawbacks. For example, having a port node during the spring and summer may be the tits, but winter might make those nodes Hell. Snow and or big storms like hurricanes and tsunamis locking content or making content so advanced, only servers with dedicated no-Lifers can turn it into a metropolis. I guess we will see.
The caravan system reminds me of Albion Online tbh. Not exactly the same, but mounts in Albion add carry weight to your character and there is no fast travel so you often see transport mounts (obvious due to the caravan model) making runs through PvP zones. And yes, you lose all your loot and equipped gear when you die in that game, only keeping the coin you had on you.
The fact Steven was a big L2 fan is good, L2 had the coliseum, which when you joined, people could spectate, and if people were suspected of win trading, you can report them etc
40:30 For those who are concerned about open world raids being griefed etc, there is the beauty of player based driven game. While your guild is doing the raid, you should also have a pvp team so that they can protect your raid group inside and dont let others interrupt you. What if you are all pve only players? Then you cooperate with a guild to form alliance or hire mercenaries to guard you.
They should implement a class hierarchy system within the civilization node. Say for instance a peasant, low born, high born, duke, king, emperor, etc.
Archeage and Lineage are hands down my ever favorite mmos, but from what it sounds it is completely for different reasons that what this Ashes of Creation director liked them. I want to like this game so so much because everyone agrees it is different than the rest and it promises to be not pay to win and sub based. BUT i seem to hate it from what i hear. I understand all the systems that this guy wants because i played both archeage and lineage heavily and i know where they failed, but this game is fixing them by creating other issues and imo failing entirely on one aspect: what would keep anyone playing for years? If everything is taken away from you one way or another, there is no reason to play for people that liked old school lineage and archeage because both those were heavily grinding games that instilled an unparalelled sense of achievemnt when said grind reached an end. There were major punitive system in place in both these games but the end result was making it worth all the hassle and loss. In Ashes nothing seems to stay with you, everything is in a constant state of destruction, why bother? There needs to be one point of stability you can fall back on and i dont see it here anywhere. Perhaps the gear you wear? That would make it really unappealing for players like myself who never gave two cents for gear but prefered exploration, finding rare stuff and making money, expanding their wardrobe and echievements. It just sounds like a big lump of trash to me, but ill keep an open mind and assume that people talking about it now still havent got a wide understanding of it and things are anyway still changing
One thing that was mentioned was as one race gets more nodes in their style it will be increasingly more difficult for future nodes to be in the same style. This should help with dominant races like elves or human having a monopoly on architecture
I think the thing that would make the node system unique would be if they implement a system that changes what resources and advantages different nodes give over time. Maybe have it on a weekly or biweekly timer to switch the resource production of all the nodes on the map. That way the map is forced to continue changing, and have it be semi-RNG based where it's like, "Any node can have Rare Metal production, but only 3 nodes on the map can have them overall" during the generation sequence. Easiest way to do that would be to have it do a "load order" of sorts, where it starts with the highest priority, then rolls a random number generator to decide which node on the map gets it, then continues until the rest of the nodes get the bottom tier resources. I don't know, I'm not a game developer but as a player that is what I think might help with the potential weakpoints of the node system. The only downside would be that bad RNG could completely screw over a server for a week or two, depending on how it looked. The only way around that would be to have a moderator for each server that keeps an eye on that generator to decide whether or not it's too over or underpowered for the server to thrive.
![[FFXIV: Heavensward] Lemme at them dargins!, day 25 | !demand](/img/n.gif)
I really want the season to change hemispherically. Summer in the north winter in the south forcing trade caravans to transport materials for different materials with the cross road middle of the map having less of seasonal changes making the north and south regions integral to the server economy.
That would be really interesting and dynamic, different biomes could also have different seasons like monsoons or the like.
the whole point here is to be realistic except it falls flat when you realize that the size of the world is 300 km2. For context, Germany is 357,000 km2.
@@11th_defender51 the whole point is to make players move from the dead center of the map and creating trade routes throughout the game. It's a video game with continents and varying biomes that are incredibly small compared to their real world counter parts... what is your point exactly?
@@11th_defender51 bro wait till you hear about video games.
@@bagelSC07 I misunderstood what the point was lol.
You could make some rare materials appear in certain nodes, and set a node min level requirement for that material to grow there. With that, you force players, even from other nodes, to invest there and collect those rare things. This could not only work with materials, but also with many other things in the game.
Not english native here... But I like your idea, and Im watching the development of the game and already saw a lot of things that fans put in the comentary of the mensal live or in the videos of youtube come to reality, try there !!!
Like a growing jackpot for getting a node to that level. Once the jackpot is large enough, groups will fight to take it.
Even if the meta would then be rotating the nodes, it'll still be more interesting than holding the same nodes all the time.
You could also make certain materials appear during specific events too, and that those materials are more rare outside of those events, to encourage people to do the events to get the mats. Sure it might FEEL like forced participation, but imagine only being able to get high level dragon scales needed for a certain thing, and you as a crafter have to go and farm it, you can totally make that into you personal RP adventure! Or you can buy it from players who've participated in the events. At least to me that would make it more exciting as someone who like crafting and farming mats, and it would feel awarding too. Hopefully you get a bif reagent/material storage tho xD
@@Soul-Burn The idea is for resources to be regional and for high concentration deposits to spawn at times to provide both a point of contention and enough resources to keep the base economy moving. Rotating nodes will probably happen on some server or other, but there wont be a need for it if trade routes develop properly.
Then that's where the meta goes...
For the caravan system, you should be able to setup a caravan as a trap for pvp invaders.
It would set a risk factor to attackers, since losing your actual looted caravan is also high risk.
I'm glad Asmon takes time to react to these videos. It's pretty much guaranteed that his feedback will reach Stephen's ears and he can actually take action to prevent unintentional bad game design. Like what Asmon was saying about the Nodes. Great input and feedback.
Nah, it's just going to be another scam mmo
@@batmeme9349 You don't create an MMO with your own money to try and make money 🙄
Company-funded mmos have a higher chance of getting released than a mmo funded by crowds (tho, most if not all of the crowd-funded mmos didn't even get an actual release and stay as beta.)
Ashes of creation are founded by the community and that alone is already a red flag, every mmo enthusiast should probably know the patterns by now.
@@batmeme9349 IIRC the game is funded by the CEO and not backers, sure they allowed people to spend money to get some things but the money was unnecessary for the games creation.
@@batmeme9349 it’s not funded by the community lol. Please learn about the development before putting out illegitimate nonsense.
My most concern about the Node System is that big streamers can just overrun everything. They could make people vote for them, crash others etc. A simple example was just r/place where streamers could nuke a picture in seconds.
Influential people will always dominate. How is a no-name going to rally others to vote for them?
difference would be r/place is that way more people are willing to press a button than learing a whole MMO system just for the meme
that would be if true if the only way to become mayor is through a voting process. in ashes it depends on what type of node you're into like what peon explained in the video. you can become mayor either through voting( in which streamers will definitely abuse), a last man standing pvp for a military node, or who finished the most quest becomes the mayor. you're also forgetting the fact that nodes can be destroyed and as we all know, most of the streamers' white knights won't have good gear and are not good in pvp as they're only in it for the fun. so normal players on an attacking node will definitely destroy a "streamer" node. finally, if you happens to be in a "streamer" node then you can just leave as soon as you find out while it's still the early stages and just go to other nodes that are far or nearby.
@@edwardnewgate9834 Yeah, I agree. Streamers are definitely going to become mayors of scientific and economic nodes (simps' donations :D). If a streamer becomes the mayor of a military node, then shit, they probably deserved it. Controlling a castle might be harder since you can't cheese it unless the holders literally surrender.
@@slayerbllade cool
Lineage is clearly a main source of inspiration for this game - Ships, water monsters, most of the raids are open world, only a handful of instances, sieges, guilds and guild wars etc. It's amazing how concepts that are more than 20 years old can be reinvented with modern day capabilities - dynamic cities, castles, opening or closing zones dynamically, player driven economy that evolves based on how areas evolve. I'm looking forward to this!
I just love how the game has legitimately interactive systems that are designed around pushing players to INTERACT with each other. So many MMOS are meh because they’re asocial and dont take advantage of the biggest draw to MMOS which are other players. Genuienly looking forward to this
Yeah bro, i played innumerous different mmo's and it's so easy to fall into being just another player that is just solo playing
Either that or other players are in one way or the other only *'rivals'* or even *'roadblocks'* like in... well... good old Vanilla wow.
One of it's biggest drawbacks I ever noticed by myself. The openworld PvP was everything to me since it was NOT balanced and you could just steamroll or get completely steamrolled. Just like in a *real* war. And it was fun.
But when it came to mining ore's other players were a menace. Especially those of the OWN faction ironically since you couldn't attack those when they got to an ore just 1 or 2 seconds earlier than yourself. While you could still fight over it against a player from the other faction. And in vanilla there were no _"shared"_ ore's like those in the modern expansions in which you are basically in your own phasing when it comes to them.
Never knew how to feel about it. One one hand it was realistic.
On the other hand it was very annoying. Farming Arcanitcrystalls was... °sigh° well... it was fun back then.
But nowadays...? I wouldn't like it as much anymore.
Yep. A lot of people like to shit on ESO, but having played WoW, SWTOR, FFXIV, BDO, and several others, ESO provided this interactive experience for me, ranking it as my all time favorite MMO experience that captured me from launch to about 2019. As a PvP'er there was a lot of GvG drama that happened in several of the pvp campaigns I was in, and in a way, making the alliances feel the stakes were higher even though they really weren't. There was a lot of competition between factions and between specific guilds as well. Sometimes within the same faction. It was more than war for cyrodiil, it was displaying dominance. Yeah I know it sounds pathetic lol but to experience our own game of thrones organically in a game where im only expected to stand on flags in a castle was so much fun, and it kept me playing for years and years. I'd still be playing if I didn't have a kid and all my friends were still there.
This is gonna turn into another classic phase 2. Militaristic elections my ass, There'll be one fat goblin like asmongold who has 5 guys fighting for him to ensure he wins. if there is a possibility for degeneracy it'll happen. Plus this game is setting up to be the biggest FOMO builder of all MMOs so far. Cant take breaks or u lose progress. The fact that so far it has so little focus on story and themes means this game is doomed to a short life.
GW2 says hi.
I think the node system is great, but I get concerned about dying servers. Nodes can de-level, so a dying server will be exacerbated by the world dying as well, not just player base dropping. Then when they have to merge servers, people will have weapons and armors that should not yet exist on those servers, since these things are unlocked by advancing nodes. When a server gets shut down, the hardcore players on that server that invested so much time into node, castle and freehold buildings will get screwed over. Server degradation is inevitable, so players will have to deal with it until final consolidation of long term players are established.
People might want to de rank a node down to the ground while no one wants to help defend it. It might become new world all over again where the top 2 pvp clans group together and destroy every single node around them. I've more worries about the game but I'll see what happens when it launches
@@MoistYoghurt If they did so, their node would die. As nodes grow, they vassalize the nearby nodes, which feed them experience. There are a bunch of other systems involved as well. New World never knew what it wanted to be when it grew up, which just made a disorganized mess.
Actually, that may not be the problem you think it is. Players will simply congregate to population centers, leaving a large part of the server 'wild' Meaning more cool places to explore. On a full server, every node may be occupied, and no wilderness left to be found. Now, should this happen, Intrepid will need to come up with content for 'wild' nodes.
I’m thinking of a possible resolution for the hardcore players. when they reach a certain milestone, they can access to a unique world/server called “God realm” and they can move in between their base server/world and the “God realm”. Therefore, in cases of the server dying, they can still access to their own achievements, progression of their base world and can still play in an environment that guaranteed to have players that are on the same boat as them. Making the delete of obsolete, dying server and merging is somewhat meaningless. This is just an quick thought of mine in just minutes or so, feel free to give suggestion or raising your viewpoint against it.
@@Krieghandt not every node will emerge. If there is a nearby node at level one, border nodes will be locked at wilderness at lvl 0
I have been following the game from the beginning and I am definitely curious about what will come from it. However, I see many complex systems that will not be easy to balance around or might not even have the desired effect on the community. For me, and I am probably the minority here, sometimes less is more, and I feel like games are becoming a second job rather than something to enjoy and have fun because the tendency is to overcomplicate how they play. Lets hope for the best :)
Yeah, there are a lot of idealistic theory but no talk about the practical effects. The adaptatively difficulty boss is the worst offender imo, it will just make players calculate how to kill the boss showing their worse performance, it will make players intentionally reduce their effectiveness in combat, that is simply anti-fun.
People complaining about the meta-players/minmaxers destroying fun don't realized that actually that's the expected thing, it's a game, people will always go by the least resistant path to achieve something. The responsibility of limiting the rules so the optimal meta path is actually fun is on the devs.
@@flinkstiff Yes, there are a lot of solutions to this problem. But the devs should show their solutions preemptively, they should design with these practical effects as a priority. The way they don't talk about those things (at least in this video) makes it seem like they are falling to the trap of trying to make the most idealized version of their game in their heads not the best version of it.
Totally right, it already feels completely overwhelmingly complex and even worse for the programming part. Hardcoded things can easily be adjusted, but dynamic, self-adjusting and player driven systems are exponentially harder to grasp and adjust and humans are very very very good in finding exploits, especially for griefplay. Building such an open system you can only think about and control a certain amount of options and players will find more ways around it the more possibilities there are. Personally, I see it becoming a PK dumpster fire because in these games PvP / PKing always is superior and if you can also destroy peoples work and steal their stuff this is going to be a griefplay paradise. Big roleplaying capabilities just because of character design? The first time that huge tavern that roleplayers spent months on building is completely deleted because PvPers destroyed the hub you know what the roleplayers are going to do: Cancel their subscription.
I think a good solution for the nodes and how to handle leveling the ones that left behind would be random events. A thing that ESO does is it releases events for older zones , so you have players constantly shifting through them. While it would not be optimal I think it would be the first thing that they can try if levels become an issue. Let's say a couple of cities start falling behind, they can create a treshold for traffic. Once a node drops below it , it gets included into a pool of low traffic zones, than a random roll can determine where the event whill start. It can be in the sort of a node disaster or something where it would drive players to visit the node and fight elite mobs and bosses for a better drop chance or something. Random, unpredicted chance is by far the best counter to the mid maxing behaivior players tend to go for. A good example for that is actually a strategy game Crusader Kings 2. You can build the biggest empire there and it can all fall apart due to a couple of bad events that are out of your control, something happens and you deal with the consequences of it and I think this dynamic where the game tries to trow curveballs at the playrbase is by far the mosst fun experience. Or lets say a city is way too populated, trow in a plauge or something that will slow it down so the others may catch up, stuff like that.
I played Silkroad Online when I was a teen. The caravan system with traders/thieves/hunters was really cool and dynamic - eventually you get to know the other thieves and hunters on your server too and know who to avoid
I am very excited for Ashes and Riot's MMO. I think those two in particular, if launched correctly and the hype can be sustained past the two week threshold. We got two amazing MMO's coming in the future.
Also lotro remastered
@@mr_sn4k3s He probably watches CNN.
The mmo i've been more invested was BDO. Exploring the world for the first time, discovering every location, learning how every profession worked, trying some classes and mastering my main class. It was a long time and i had a lot of fun. The progression to get far was slow but i didn't care, there was just so much i had to do, i didnt want to rush. Then, they added new content, with that, early stages of the game became just useless, they started giving everything for free just to rush you to get the new things, with even grindier things. The feeling of discovery became old, and the game started to be afk professions.
Became afk for me first time achieving top gear. Game just became even more boring.
@@aSmolGoth Yeah, i remember when i played the first time, upgrading gear to +15 like wow, and then using the, at that time, rare stones for PRI. Now they give everyone TRI gear, and you need to do failstacks which is a HORRIBLE system. You are not rewarded for grinding a piece of gear, you are rewarded for pure RNG when enchanting. A friend started the game, got a late boss helmet in like 2 days and got it to PEN first try and the same with a weapon. And then you can play for a month and don't have a single PEN piece because of rng. It just doesn't know how to reward players, you even have daily rewards, with event boxes where, if you are lucky, you can get lifeskill tools that are just sooo expensive to get, for pure rng. Its like in wow you connect every day and you play a roulette where you can get a ultra rare mount that you can only get y doing a ton of achivements. That mount would stop being special, and just a pure meme. Bdo is such a wasted mmo is just sad...
In regards to the "meta cities" in a game. I think out of my mmorpg life, ( funny enough ) Lineage2 in my time expansions was the best I've ever experienced, where the main cities were a few depending on the level range you were at. There was always the busy Giran or the higher level stuff Aden and Oren, but you'd find good trade ( and sometimes even better prices on mats ) on low level Towns of Gludio and Dion. People were literally trading EVERYWHERE and the merchant side of the game was insanely well balanced and fully player controlled.
When it comes to Node i think it would be fun to have those village suffer from monster invasion occasionally so that it shows that making a big community comes with it's challenge over time, that way a big town would find it hard to stay without proper support and it would add content as some might cultivate a big node just for the sake of fighting those monster invasion events
And maybe if they fail to defend town it gets heavily damaged and if they fail to defend it multiple time in a row, they can even be completely destroyed
Of course this would only happento the big boys town that are on top of them all, that way there is a risk involved in living in a superior town
Edit :
Aight I get it, unlike y'all I'm not completely obsessed with a mmo that will come out in 5 years....
The only things I looked at are classes races and some lore
I commented this very early in the video too and forgot about this comment
Ashes of Creation is THE WoW killer. Now is the right time.
it already has that
@@ElfTaleFilms first time in my life I can agree with that words)
Thats literally already a mechanic in game. Monster waves, and monster Tokens to turn players into monsters to help attack other nodes.
Lmao.
Thats straight up New World invasion system.
Tbh, those invasions sucked but more likely suffered from boring fight design
I agree, they need to watch what happened in New World and not allow ONE faction to take over a map. Also, any taxes that are earned should be placed in a "bank" for town use ONLY. That money should not be available to buy better gear or advance individual players.
Afaik, that is actually what they are planning. use the taxes for town upgrades only.
Can confirm what JMard said, Taxes can only be taken out of the town coffers by raiding tax caravans (sending the taxes to a node you're the vassal of), or by using them as part of the upgrades for the town itself. Mayors are not allowed to draw taxes out of the system.
Because of the climate system, nodes in farther parts of the map can offer something unique all the time. The middle areas on the cost might have ports, but they don't always have the best resources. The edges might have the ores, lumber, cloth, leather etc. etc. They also might have them all season compared to other places.
I think Port nodes will be the most powerful economically, but if you have a lot of dungeons that are tied to nearby nodes that pretty far inland, that's going to be the motivation to build up those nodes
I agree, port nodes will be very very valuable, just like irl too. Ships moving goods to the closest city to it's final destination to then take a caravan will be incredibly important.
11:00 put the most valuable minerals only into those mountains. For the real world that would be something like gold and iron(for medieval times ofc) probably. Notes at the cost will be valubable for trading, notes at the top for mining. the island one is probably really hard to capture bc its an island, so maybe the guild controlling the mountains will set their main city there.
Star Wars galaxies had a lot of this and was amazing, the taverns were always full because there were dancers and musicians there giving buffs to people, this created huge social hubs where friends bonded
In my experience the dancer buffs expire too fast and turn into debuffs.
Before the combat upgrade Star Wars Galaxies was an absolute AMAZING game.....then Sony bought it and we know how that goes
@@shawnstoddard7434 the NRG everyone protested saying it would ruin it….ruined it. Especially as someone who did the Jedi grind which took fooking ages “oh here’s a Jedi for you”
One thing that worries me about this game is that the hardest raids will be in the open world. This is a fun idea in theory, but in practice it just means that there is only 1 guild per server that ever gets a chance to do that content(since it usually takes a week to respawn). Unless they change their mind about contested raid content, or find some method of phasing that allows all guilds to attempt the content, the end game pve raid scene is DOA.
Then get good.
@@kingkongdong7042 if people need to play a "git gud" game, they will play a single-player game, not MMOs
Hopefully rewards will be for everyone and the Red system will be more punishing and death will be serious(like lost loot serious) so that bully aggressive guilds dont beat the boss and then have a permanent advantage for the rest of the servers life. Imagine if killing people stopping a city ending disaster boss made you Red. And being Red could make you capable of dropping any recently won loot(1 or 2 ACTIVE DAYS) upon death.
No killing 3 guilds on the world boss taking the loot then disconnecting for 1 day etc.
Or remove guilds and make "Nodes" the guilds and let nodes balance itself out.
Since when did every player need to complete all the content in a game. We make a choice to stay in a smaller guilds that cant compete. We make a choice to mainly be a solo player. We make a choice to play with a huge guild and be a part of the crowd but also get to do content that's locked by the former choices. You cant build a game this big and make it so everyone can do everything.
With your node concerns, consider the fact that these nodes can be invaded. So if someone has that really good node with meta buffs, other guilds will seek to take it over. The best node may constantly be under siege basically
Yeah but there will be sweats that get control of the most powerful nodes early and then make it almost impossible for anyone else to get hold of them because… they are the most powerful.
Look at what happened to the AH in WoW. People buy out all of a specific but needed item only to relist at a way higher price.
How will they stop op groups & cartels of no life sweats forming? I dunno if they can.
The problem is that this is the same as new world. It doesn't really matter if it's constantly on siege because if they are dominating the region they will have more resources to buy/craft better gear, consumables and upgrade the node's defensive systems.
That isn't the case.
If you've played any MMO with mechanics like that; eventually the top guilds will form an agreement to either share, or to draw a line in the sand - because ultimately peace is more profitable.
Ie. Eve Online, Albion Online.
@@perote3 ye but in new world u can own multiple nodes in ashes ur only affiliated to 1 node if u decide to be the master of the best node in the game u will spend all ur life defending it
@@perote3 I get where you're coming from but the difference, I think, is that the world is so massive, and has so many nodes, that there is almost certainly going to be other guilds strong enough to siege the node. It's hard to imagine anyone snowballing that fast unless the guild is full of gigachads or something.
"nodes are not owned by guilds"
didnt asmon just explain that sufficiently coordinated groups of players with enough resources can justtake over a node via wintrading (in the combat-election type)?
also, if someone becomes mayor, and is in a guild, that town is now guild-controlled.
Thats cool, just have a bigger guild move into the node and take it over, its going to be crazy seeing the politics unfold between a few different factions in a node, while the loser of that scuffle will be forced or choose to leave the node on their own volution.
Tell me you don't know about AoC without telling me. Guilds have no reason to own nodes, being a mayor does not benefit them in the slightest. Top pvp guilds are gonna Fight for castles. There are 5 castles in the game that are pvp zones. Its beneficial for a top PVP guild to own a castle because that's where multiple node profit goes in exchange for protection and other benefits. Mayors only use tax revenue to build the city. Also top tier guilds gonna be citizens of multiple nodes so guild can benefit from all of them.
@@misao6397 Well maybe you are right I'm on copium. But you said guilds will own nodes just for bragging rights. Ok so now they have their guild leader as mayor. Sounds good means nothing. What is he gonna do? Build the city? Or maybe raise taxes high so everyone who is not in the guild leaves this node? What happens when king of the castle (one of the top 5 pvp guild leader) sees one of his mayors not paying him tax or ruining city in his kingdom. Also if you want to be mayor of another node you cant be mayor of this one anymore. So you can have one node maybe under your control if you are Asmon or someone huge maybe you can take few but it still means nothing since you want buildings in your city to be there so you can play. Also smaller guilds have better perks then huge guilds so when creating a guild they might wanna minmax number of players to get best perks. But if you are small guild you cant do much regarding to node system. You can contribute for sure after.
Bigger guilds would have problems moving around a lot since to cross the world (480sq km) it would take a human 2.5 to 4.5 hours to traverse a straight line up/down or across such a map. and there is no effective way to summon large grps of people. Mayors don't own the city they just decide what you are building next and people need to contribute resources for that thing to be built. It is a good illusion of power.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Nodes are owned by citizens and you could end up fighting your guild mates in a node war since guild mates will be in multiple nodes so they can get all the benefits you guild needs. You are citizen 1st then guildmate in this game. If you are crafter you don't want to be citizen of military nodes. If you are pvper you would probably buy citizenship in military metropolis. Crafting gear is BIS so pvpers need crafters to sustain them since gear probably will not be permanent and it will have to be regularly repaired by high lvl crafters who have high lvl buildings in their metropolis. Castle gonna be for pvp guilds as well as guild wars, caravans gonna be world pvp content, and for hardcores you have instances arenas 2v2 3v3 5v5. With that said relationship between nodes are going to be important.
Node sieges enable players to destroy nodes. This paves the way for new development and access to the locked content in surrounding nodes. Due to this dynamic, political strife and intrigue play an important role in the structure of the world. Sieging nodes will not be an easy task for the attackers. Cities and metropolises will have a considerable defensive advantage. Also separate guild roles are reserved for small, medium and large guilds.
@@misao6397 Just don't play on streamer servers and you are gonna be fine. You indeed need a large group of coordinated idiots to do stuff like that. I understand that people always exploit/minmax games but you need to have huge following to ruin few nodes out of 103 per server. And most streamers are not gonna do that anyways. Could be that i am a bit bias because i mainly pvp and i play a lot so take it with grain of salt.
Caravan trading and attacking was literally one of the most fun gameplay I ever had in Silkroad Online. The nostalgia there…
@@Brekner the gameplay in Silkroad Online and RDR were completely different. Didn’t feel so bad to loose anything and you can’t really just be a dickhead and steal shit.
You had to get into specific pvp gear called Thief and you immediately get flagged for everyone on the server to kill. However only the Trader and the Protectors of the convoy will get a bonus payment if successfully killed the Thief.
Caravan System is so fun, i loved it on Archeage, raiding other ppl caravans, and maybe even more fun was moving your own safely, it was always a thrill.
And then u had some bosses that drop expensive items that u had to transport to a specific point to colect them and u could get robbed, so not only u had to kill the boss u had to protect yourself form other ppl
the thrill when u try to get your caravan without help and defense to the next city...
Dunno if there already is, but I think is a good idea adding a sort of timeline where is recorded every event happening in the world
For example:
22/06/2022 got to level 5 under Mayor
29/06/2022 clear raid X
2/07/2022 Started siege war for taking down
Can be useful for players to keep track of events and, especially for new player, create a sort of link with the in-gmae events
31:54 THIS. I'm super cynical with regards to all the systems. Sure they can add a bunch of systems, but that doesn't make it good. They'd have to strike a very hard balance between making all these systems interesting/fun enough for players to want to engage with them, and not too complicated as to scare them away, on top of that they'd need to balance them all. I hope they can do it, but i highly doubt it.
A solution to a node being meta might be to have some sort of decay to them. Kinda like if a country is using up a resource. If the node buff quality diminishes over time there might be less need to play around with the nerf bat. Just need a long cool down in the background for how long a node needs to recover. For event detection the graphics and such indicating is cool but some text is likely needed. I agree that it being on the hud is too 4th wall breaking. There is a whole world of NPCs whose dialog could be used to speak on what they see in the world to indicate the events.
the caravan system in silk road online was amazing... and the jobs related such as merchant, thief and guard which each had thier own benefits was also great... if this is similar then it will be a big hit..
I'll be excited when they update their roadmap with an actual date for Alpha 2. They haven't given a hard deadline and its been a year since Alpha 1. Remember there is still a Beta 1 and Beta 2 before release...
When it comes to WoW, I don't think that just a good trial version would be enough. I was willing to pay and did pay for multiple months, but I still couldn't get into the game. The experience for a person that knows nothing about the game is just horrible. The leveling experience was pretty much: Select a zone from a bunch of options which you knew nothing about, do couple quests and someone is yelling at you in a quest form that you should go to another zone. So I never managed to finish any of the zones or create any kind of bond or emotions towards the game world.
I did hit the max level, but had absolutely no idea what I was supposed to do to get better gear, it was never explained in the game what kind of gearing progress it uses and I tried the most usual ways that mmos use. Running dungeons only gave me same ilvl gear, raids I either couldn't queue or the queue would just not pop up. I did not find an npc that exchanges gear for some tokens, nor did I have any idea about economics of the game so buying with gold that I didn't have was not an option.
For the Open World Raid, they could do like Bozja in FFXIV. You register for the raid upcoming in group or solo and its lock after the group is complete.
A lot of people are sceptical and rightfully so. Balancing all this stuff is crazy ambitious, but what concerns me the most is that there is no sense of stability in the game. If towns can rise and fall just like that, if mounts aren't permanent, if you can loose your stuff in an attack, sorry but that doesn't sound like fun to me 😬
It’s definitely not for all for sure,for those who like it.They like the fact that there are real stakes that can influence their characters different from how some games make the drawbacks for losing an event too miniscule for you to care.
Ultimate pirate simulator =p
world pvp on time limited world bosses? node system? many of the things said here could end up with similar problems as new world did when a guild dominated a server, it'll cause players that arent from that guild's "clique" to not get access to the best stuff and slowly cause the server those happen to die in terms of playerbase, faction/world pvp/competition is nice and all but moment you give too many rewards to the winners and punish the losers, things start to escalate, the losers will simply leave and move to another server or just leave the game entirely.
Peon forgot to mention this but you can respec your secondary class, but also they're not as impactful as your primary class, so it is not a 50-50 split.
A close example I can give is similar to the glyphs you add to your skills in wow or diablo3, but probably a little more in depth than that.
Eh. It's about on par with the glyphs heh. I was really hoping for more of a 50/50 dual class myself.
@@zacharyshort384 Secondary class allows you to augment your skills certain way rather than giving you additional skills. That's why i gave that example, there will be other gameplay aspect of it too most likely, but yeah don't expect it to be 50/50.
@@Luniaril This is probably better in the name of balance. Balancing 8 classes with different flavors is probably easier than balancing 64 almost completely different classes.
@@Marxist-Nixonist-Bidenist Well I would not argue it would be easier to balance that way. That's a given. However, I'm all about creating a unique build in MMOs. That's the main thing that keeps me interested. Balance is secondary for me ;)
So if I picked summoner-->Tank for "Brood Warden", it would basically give me options to make the summons tanky? I mean I figured that's what it would be I just expected...a little more. I hope there is unique options like thorns etc.
Also aesthetics are a thing I hope. Necromancer can't have the exact same summons as every other summoner combo.
This game looks incredibly promising, hope theory meets execution.
@@nrf82 Meh by the time all MMO's are released they're already 10 years too old
looks trash and feels clunky
Keep in mind it's still in Alpha
@@miorioff 😴
@@ditchfood8047 People always say "Its still in alpha!" Yet it barely changes much. Especially, animations,graphics, etc.
Honestly I see this becoming exactly like New World. If you can remove a mayor by force whats to stop the surrounding areas that have the same guild from pooling their resources and just steamrolling your town. Even if they reset it every few months then the areas with more resources would just continue to go unopposed. Its going to create a lopsided playing field similar to the realm migration just with the feel of one of those browser base builder games where you get run off by people who bot or play beyond the normal constraints of human sleep/work. If they even decide to mitigate this by making new rules or guidelines its going to make the system overly complicated. Honestly they need to just make it NPC driven and push more of an achievement based upgrade so the players dont directly influence the outcome of the towns.
one idea for a bit of node balancing is trying it in with the season system, x-city sucks in winter, y-city is awesome in winter.
this doesn't remove travel distance from content balancing but im sure someone can come up with something for that, maybe dynamic endgame?
or even tying endgame into the season as well, like x-endraid top left of map is easier in winter or grants more loot making z-city near the top left a temporary best choice for player hub.
Hot take from me: I love MMO’s I just also bounce around games. Sometimes I don’t want to play it, I don’t want the /daily/ aspect of it. The monthly sub would be good for those that want a cheaper/subscription based payment, BUT adding in the option (like BDO, or hell any fucking wow expansion) of paying upfront once for the content, I think that would also at least add in value to players similar to myself.
playing every day is hard for almost everyone, burnout is way worse than not playing for 2-4 days
My main concern with the nodes is the first wave of players gets the best experience seeing this fresh world to build on. The later waves come in with metropolises everywhere. I wonder if they could do a specific server that resets the nodes to offer that constant fresh feeling.
Nodes will be resetted after a succesful attack. So yeah, you can help build one from the start eventually.
I think you will get something like a high level node surrounded by lower level ones that try to destroy it so they can upgrade their own and those again surrounded by lower level ones.
There can only be one metropolis per castle zone,region,whatever.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Except monster coin events.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Ahh,well monster coin events are kinda pvp.
One thing I hope for is that the really high level nodes will require other nodes around to work.
After all, at a sertain level of production you need more resources to keep it going.
Giving dependencies between different nodes would help with the "Players found one node is the best and are only making that one" concern
Thats exactly how it will work like, your hopes are becoming reality.
for example trees in a forest biome vs the need of trees in a desert biome. and abundance of ores in the desert biome but not enough in the swamplands, etc. there will be multiple trade routes between nodes.
Someone else mentioned in the comments that there will be "parent" nodes or "metropolis" nodes and "child" nodes. Essentially there cant be two nodes of equal size near each other unless they border an even bigger node that is their "parent" node.
Yep from what I remember it works like a matushka. Basically a metropol has smaller cities under it. And those cities have towns under them. And the towns have villages under them.
players can level a type of node, but the nodes are assigned a type at world creation. And only 5-6 nodes can be level 6. so if everyone makes a level 6 economic node, no one will be max level or have highest in slot gear (the first requires Divinity nodes, the latter Scientific (crafting) nodes. Military nodes grant max weapon skills. So there is a definite synergy between nodes, and a question as to which node you want to make a level 6.
Speaking to Asmons comment about instanced dungeons and raids. I'm a fan of a PROPPERLY BALANCED game where guilds NEED a crafting or life skill squad, a dungeon or raid squad, and a PVP squad. Even more so if each squad receives benefits based on how well the other two squads preform. Using open world raids as an example, I think it would be hella cool if part of the guild was raiding the dragon nest, while another part was defending the entrance from a rival guild because whoever last hits the raid boss gets access to the mineral nodes in the cave for the next week.
Don't agree with his take on caravans.
If only valuables have to be moved via caravan then griefers will attack literally every caravan because it's always worth it to attack them because they always have valuables.
You need 'grass' caravans to dissuade them. The idea of not knowing if there are valuables will force players to question whether or not it's worth their time to attack said caravan or do something more productive.
make like this: You the player have a fix number of weight you can carry with your mount so you can move at 100% speed, if you exceed that limit you will be slowed down ur if you go even further you cant move at all, and if you set up a caravan you will be able to carry like 5k kg isntead of just 500 kg as a normal player, so that if you want to move alot of wood or ore that you gatherd in the mountain regions to a city that has skilled blacksmiths you will need a caravan, but you will be slower then your average player on a caravan, and if someone trieds to rob you, since its not a full loot game you should lose up to 30 - 50% of you cargo if you fail to defend yourself. Just like in albion online only that if you die you lose everything, and if you decide to ride on a transport mammoth and die? well lets say have fun working your bud of the next 6 moths to get the money back you lost with just the transport mount. In generall the caravan system is very very easy to set up if you just implement a weight limit for your inventory.
42:20 Guild Wars 2 had the best jumping puzzles ever
i swear so many of the systems from guild wars were so cool and engaging, give me a GW3 ArenaNet you bastards
His new world comparison is true, although it caused the 2 other factions to team up and work together to defeat the "winning" faction.
Happened on my server and many others.
New world 2 >_>
Silkroad Online Job system was such a good way for Open World PVP to take place.
Could just be leveling as a level 30 and all of a sudden a caravan of 3 bulls being chased and fought by a party of thiefs just come through your grinding area. Next thing you know you run away to not grab aggro.
Thiefs would have their own town and their whole goal was for them to steal kill you and your transport, pick up your goods then go back to the thief town to sell them.
Traders obviously would defend their mounts and goods and could hire HUNTERS who were the cops pretty much. The amount of PvP battles that would happen near towns as a result from this was intense. A lot of them would occur near starter towns so new players could see a system they could do in the future.
SRO - such a great game. May have been a simple grind mobs for gear and materials to upgrade said gear, but the amount of social interaction and overall gameplay enjoyment was really what brought the game up in such popularity.
The caravan / having to move things between nodes concept is very much like how Eve Online works
imagine if such an pve event would take place.
a massive hostile army would form in response of rapid growth the the node/kingdom alone cant face alone, so in order to defeat it the people of the same node will have to request help from other kingdoms to defeat the army of pve mobs and everybody will get an essential loot from it so its a win win
Strongly agree, seasons should be longer than a week.
L2 solved the open world dungeons with instanced bosses years ago, and it was freaking epic.
I think the way to make sure that all node types stay viable is to make them to some extent interdependent on each other.
In the end you can control the worth of nodes with recources and dungeons.
You can give the backwater nodes valuable resources that are in high demand or give them an important dungeon so the node acts as hub for adventurers. If node x has access to a special type of tree that only this corner of the world has, then it will become an important merchant town.
A real world example would be the arab peninsula which would be one of the most unimportant and unappealing places on this planet if it wasn't for oil. Because of that there are bustling cities in some of the richest countries in history.
Or you can simply make some smaller areas the most beautiful places in the game with lush plains and forests and lakes so the poeple want homes there.
I'm excited for this game but am expecting it to fail because of the node and tax system. I think giving power to players sounds fun but you can't give too much power if any because people are fundamentally jerks and people will always find a way to exploit it! No matter how smart game developers might think they are trust me players are smarter and will find a way to ruin it for everyone. You might think oh they can just do patches and fix things but most of the time when the damage is done it's done and you've lost those players. Just like in real life first impressions are everything and if you have players grieving other players through the tax system or whatever and it starts losing a lot of players within the first few months it'll be seen and noticed and now the game has a bad image/reputation and it's over! On the other hand I do hope I'm completely wrong because I would love for this game to succeed.
Yeah problems with these kinds of systems are unavoidable but that's what the testing is for. As long as the devs have a good and dedicated balancing team it should be fine.
I unfortunately agree with you, I'd love to be proven wrong tho, I'm hoping this becomes a somewhat niche option with a healthy playerbase (like Eve Online). This defo feels like a more niche mmo by design Imho
You know if you are in a shitty node you can just leave and become a citizen of a new node and the upkeep is going to completely crush the system of the abusing player. its just like in real life, there is going to be corruption and nepotism and thats just going to be a part of the game.
Mayor tax does not go to mayor but to town reserve and then he uses that money to build buildings he choses and he pays part of the tax to castles for protection and other benefits. If mayor is bad he can be replaced on next cycle if mayor is good town would wanna keep him. That is gonna create social interaction with no real power for mayors.
@@bjni yes + if the node is reputated for being a scammy node, other people can declare war to this node and overthrow the mayor.
This sounds like good old puzzle pirates, but on land and with standard third-person magical rpg mechanics.
A thing that might concern me is the town identity. If you make it so that every town is composed of the same buildings from the same racial categories, then the town identities will be entirely hinged upon that and have no personality of their own. A militaristic Orc settlement on the coast of one continent will effectively look exactly the same as a militaristic Orc settlement in the snowy mountains of another. Whereas in other MMOs, each city has the potential to have their own unique aesthetics based off the story and context of the area its in. Unless their building generation is flexible enough for that, I get the feeling that these towns are going to feel like they just have no identity to them like other good MMOs.
I htink there is already automatic randomisation with node building withi the same node type already mentioned.
No different to the settings on a table randomising as it coordinates change, that they have already shown.
Ashes of Creation is hosting another dev stream and are taking questions for their Q&A, and this is essentially the question I posed for them. I asked that if AoC is using procedural generation in their nodes to structure settlements, which steps are they taking to make sure a town/city is unique/memorable whilst not becoming messy or unorganised, as players will quickly recognise "patterns" between settlements if nothing more is done to make sure there's a unique personality in each and every one.
Regarding the caravan system - I'm curious about what players will do. When being part of a top guild in early WoW, it was constant that when we went to take a world dragon, while being Alliance, there were other Alliance players that would call on Horde Guilds to come and wipe us out. I can imagine someone signing up to protect a caravan and then just tipping some bandits on how big are their defences and where they are at
The biggest weakness of a game like this is player numbers. The game NEEDS a lot of players to be playable, if nodes become more expensive to upkeep and you don't have the players on the server to contribute then you end up with lategame being soft-locked because there isn't enough resources to unlock it.
I think the biggest weakness of this game is human behavior. People aren't really gonna behave in ways that create fun for everyone. They will dominate areas, abuse power, and self serve. I mean the game is designed around user generated experiences. People kinda suck, especially online and especially when the incentive isn't really there for them to be decent. Unless the developers are very active in preventing oversaturation of power then the game will fail in all the ways Asmongold fears it will.
@@Thanatos2k new world is a perfect example of systems that work in theory but in practice . . humans.
@@supergold9390 I agree that is another probable weakness, but none of that matters if there aren't enough people playing.
So only guilds that are incredible big and powerful will control the most powerful nodes. Any big guilds would also evolve surrounding nodes for stratetegic purposes
So will mayors be victorious if you are either- an influencer in real life, you tube creator, twitch gamer... it sounds like mayors all ready have the positions without any contest to me, might be wrong..?
Yes and no, but that's the thing. Mayor's are always a popular person in a community.
7:35 I think this could be an issue, so balancing the different types of nodes will be very important. Though I do think there is possibility of there being a difference between servers, since I’m sure there’s gonna be people who wanna focus on making money. Economic nodes would probably help them do that better than being a citizen of a militaristic node. I hope this is how it turns out.
Most ambitious game ever when it comes to cooperative gameplay. I love it.
This takes me back to the times when graphics were massively improving every 2 to 4 years or so and being a videogamer was exciting above all else.
*_Ashes_* gives me that feeling of the developers _"of old"_ that still 'want' stuff and work a dreamjob, and not just a job.
14:00 false. Tax money can only be used to upgrade the Node. So if you have 0% taxes, the Node will get slammed. If you have the highest taxes possible, the Node will be pumped out the ass, not the controlling guild/mayor.
Asmongold is incredibly insightful in this video. His point about the most successful real life “nodes” having ports was spot on. This is why he’s as big as he is.
It's soooo obvious. Basically everyone invested into the game thought about that
choking on it
I hope they delve into the ideas of the node system that the devs in EQ Next was pushing for. Where npc and events would trigger based on "wealth" of the node. i.e. goblin raids, multiple factions pushing for control of the area that will determine the area around the node.
i m rly glad Asmon (and his editors) doing this types of videos, thanks to him i actually know this awesome videos and channels exist and I always know whats going on with the games worldwide. 😊 thank you
@@MoonTurky check her other comments, go touch some grass
@@MoonTurky lol
Countering the node system having a meta type or best node, is the fact you need to import resources form other nodes.
Some resources wont even be available until those nodes reach max level.
How are you going to kow whats available, without getting 'all' nodes to max level (which cant happen withotu destroying master nodes) ?
Even then, you have the problem with migrating/depletable resources.
The node system is going to have forced pvp in order to get the node you need to the level you need for the quest you want... That's definitely not gonna end well.
The nodes also unlock certain bosses which give players access to different types of gear and cosmetics, so that's one thing to think about. Especially the new quests and rewards, possibly even mounts. This could create great opportunity for sieges and guild wars,.
I love how he does not cover the fact that this is our fun and spare time we're talking about here. Is the majority of players interested in a tax-based social system with workers, mayors, and soldiers, where they remain the lower class dude for weeks because they have a real life? Uh, no. That is why Eve Online is so small. I guess we'll be playing some real adventure games instead...
Yeah that realistically won’t work long term, once people start having that problem they are out.
They’ll need to figure out balance for casual players/players with less time. As much as the shitbuckets complain, casuals literally make up most MMOs population. Except for Eve. Which has this problem.
@@xXSinForLifeXx Listen I'm here with ya. I'm a 23 M+ and CE person in WoW. I'm not a casual. I'm coming purely from the business perspective of literally any game.
Edit: More people = more money fyi
@@xXSinForLifeXx It's better that way anyways, thankfully the CEO already stated he's not in it for the money but I just hope that can last. If a games not profitable it's going to be hard to keep going is all, even with his money backing it.
I think there's more than enough heavily interested people to keep it up but I'm afraid of how prevalent RMT/RWT could be (ArchAge is absolutely famous for it's amount of that)
I'm just glad they are putting servers in Australia, most games don't and we have to put up with Massive ping 200+.
If this game delivers, we MMORPG lovers hit a jackpot. It’s a game that pretty much has everything that an MMORPG fan imagined since the last 15 years. I just hope they take their time and release a fully functional game.
If this game doesn’t deliver though, we’re doomed boys.
44:58 summerizes the whole video honestly.
Cant wait, the closed alphas have been so fun. I cant decide on what I want to do on release, lots of great offers and choices of what server to be on and to join a guild or start one.
Meta gaming for 'ideal' buffs can only really be a problem if global travel is easy (warp to dungeon) since that would allow you to use that buff for all content.
The harder it is to travel the less the ideal matters and the more situational buffs become.. It changes from being about what buff is best to what buff is best for the local situation and that in turn means that the designers can make every buff meaningful and no single buff ideal.
When the combat system "green, purple, red" popped up I was like 'Yep that developer really did play Archeage'. I'm very excited for this because Archeage waas greaat, but the companies running it kept trying to get money out of players and hindered the systems because of it.
Archeage was such an amazing game during alpha, before all the p2w stuff.
So far from what I understand about the node systems they dont give bonuses like +dmg or anything like that. Your personal freehold will give you bonuses based on how you build it. From what's explained currently nodes give you different... abilities. Metropolis will allow a type of travel to subservient nodes in the area. There's one thats a bounty hunter type of thing. etc... All the different nodes will have dungeons and other world bonuses the higher the node goes. So one territory will need to attack the node next to it to get a certain world boss dragon for materials etc. It'll be super interesting, and the current outline for the nodes doesnt really give you that "OH MAN THIS ONE IS GONNA BE META AF WE BETTER RUN THIS NODE"
Graphics look cool. I know graphics aren't everything but it still is nice to see how much better they get as time goes on.
A lot of what was shown was old Unreal engine 4 footage and not the Unreal 5 stuff so expect even better
People need to understand that the cosmetics in the shop are normally going to look leagues ahead of everything else available because the end game gear that will be on the same level or even better in terms of looks will only be accessed after weeks of the games full release.
I mean imagine if WoW vanilla sold cosmetics in shop @ lvl 1, you don't even get shoulders/helms until like level 20 in Vanilla so I mean by default the cosmetic store skin that has helm/shoulders will look significantly better.
Finally. Asmon and TheLazyPeon are why I became addicted to Ashes in the first place. Genuinely can't wait for this game, no matter what people think it's gonna be fresh and like nothing else out there.
You have become addicted to something that isn't even out? Talk about overhyping.
Flying mounts and mounts in general should have fatigue that refreshes when you feed them.
19:30 This is one of those things that people are going to hate losing that could potentially kill the game. The worst thing that you can do in any game is to punish individual players for the failures of collective players. I know the idea is to incentivize people to come together to defend things, but that's either just not going to happen after a certain point, or people are going to have to be so caught up in defending their nodes to defend their properties that they won't have time to do anything else. Uprooting a player from their node, and the loss of time and resources they may have incurred trying to defend their node from siege, is punishment enough. They should then be able to relocate their housing to another area for a minimal expense. There shouldn't be any more cost to it than that.
lost oasis has a similar system, where you travel around in what is called walkers, where you store every item and stuff, and yes, there is no protection, if you get raided, and you lose, bye bye all your loot, it is a fun game, so
I appreciate everyone giving the development team time to create this game properly. Also, they take EVERY feedback that reaches them. I've heard so many issues brought up, and by the next update they release it has been fixed.
They are very open about their development plan as well because they want our feedback before they invest developing something new.
This isn't going to work out except for the most hardcore players that grind 24/7, a casual gamer like myself who at the most got about 4-6 hours a week or even less to invest in games.
Imagine being away for 2-3 days and then you login to no housing, a bunch of resources gone and you have to spend those 4-6 hours per week to just regain resources and get a new roof over your head over and over, going to get old real fast.
Superfun idea and a nice looking game but the elitists will own every single Node and most likely the servers will have like 2-4 guilds that pretty much rules it all.
yeah the game is looking very hardcore focused, might be fun for the first 2-3 months tho but i dont know if it can last without having a casual playerbase.
@@justsomeguywithoutaguy4154 Not an argument.
Asmon is a god tier reaction guy, he makes an hour long vid out of 15-17min vid
@@RealTaIk he was not being literal..come on man
@@dimitrikoger304 It wasn't literal, true. Just straight up wrong.
@@krison0225 I mean he did do this,try to watch some of his reactions.Some of his vdeos that he was reacting to straight up has less than 20 minutes yet he increases the time by 30 minutes.
I think the weather system will keep the meta Node concern in check. You actually lose a meta lock if there are enough viable options and drawbacks. For example, having a port node during the spring and summer may be the tits, but winter might make those nodes Hell. Snow and or big storms like hurricanes and tsunamis locking content or making content so advanced, only servers with dedicated no-Lifers can turn it into a metropolis. I guess we will see.
For the caravan system it would be really cool to see things like organized bandits and mercenary companies pop up
I'm pretty excited for the potential with this MMO. Kind of reminds me of like a blending between WoW and Eve online.
Took him a while to react to this one.
The caravan system reminds me of Albion Online tbh. Not exactly the same, but mounts in Albion add carry weight to your character and there is no fast travel so you often see transport mounts (obvious due to the caravan model) making runs through PvP zones.
And yes, you lose all your loot and equipped gear when you die in that game, only keeping the coin you had on you.
I'd disagree just because it's a PVP centred MMO and those aren't my cup of tea.
The fact Steven was a big L2 fan is good, L2 had the coliseum, which when you joined, people could spectate, and if people were suspected of win trading, you can report them etc
40:30 For those who are concerned about open world raids being griefed etc, there is the beauty of player based driven game. While your guild is doing the raid, you should also have a pvp team so that they can protect your raid group inside and dont let others interrupt you.
What if you are all pve only players? Then you cooperate with a guild to form alliance or hire mercenaries to guard you.
Or you just outnumber the PvP'ers with PvE'ers up to double and more. ;)
And then the problem solves itself - mostly.
Yeah 99% of the comments are literally looking at WoW and imagining these features being implemented there.
Which is why Albion Online has 400k while WoW and FFXIV have millions of players.
They should implement a class hierarchy system within the civilization node. Say for instance a peasant, low born, high born, duke, king, emperor, etc.
@Dmitry Reus yes! It should be both a rewarding and a challenging venture, and get privileges or power the higher you are.
Play Last Epoch!! Next Patch is multiplayer! :) Its like Diablo but better
locks the encounter , like Eq2 where u cant touch the mob at all after the first guild engages the raid mob
Archeage and Lineage are hands down my ever favorite mmos, but from what it sounds it is completely for different reasons that what this Ashes of Creation director liked them. I want to like this game so so much because everyone agrees it is different than the rest and it promises to be not pay to win and sub based. BUT i seem to hate it from what i hear. I understand all the systems that this guy wants because i played both archeage and lineage heavily and i know where they failed, but this game is fixing them by creating other issues and imo failing entirely on one aspect: what would keep anyone playing for years? If everything is taken away from you one way or another, there is no reason to play for people that liked old school lineage and archeage because both those were heavily grinding games that instilled an unparalelled sense of achievemnt when said grind reached an end. There were major punitive system in place in both these games but the end result was making it worth all the hassle and loss. In Ashes nothing seems to stay with you, everything is in a constant state of destruction, why bother? There needs to be one point of stability you can fall back on and i dont see it here anywhere. Perhaps the gear you wear? That would make it really unappealing for players like myself who never gave two cents for gear but prefered exploration, finding rare stuff and making money, expanding their wardrobe and echievements. It just sounds like a big lump of trash to me, but ill keep an open mind and assume that people talking about it now still havent got a wide understanding of it and things are anyway still changing
One thing that was mentioned was as one race gets more nodes in their style it will be increasingly more difficult for future nodes to be in the same style. This should help with dominant races like elves or human having a monopoly on architecture
I can't wait to start my new life in Ashes of Creation. Literally promises everything a MMO can have and more.
I hope combat is good
I think the thing that would make the node system unique would be if they implement a system that changes what resources and advantages different nodes give over time. Maybe have it on a weekly or biweekly timer to switch the resource production of all the nodes on the map. That way the map is forced to continue changing, and have it be semi-RNG based where it's like, "Any node can have Rare Metal production, but only 3 nodes on the map can have them overall" during the generation sequence. Easiest way to do that would be to have it do a "load order" of sorts, where it starts with the highest priority, then rolls a random number generator to decide which node on the map gets it, then continues until the rest of the nodes get the bottom tier resources. I don't know, I'm not a game developer but as a player that is what I think might help with the potential weakpoints of the node system. The only downside would be that bad RNG could completely screw over a server for a week or two, depending on how it looked. The only way around that would be to have a moderator for each server that keeps an eye on that generator to decide whether or not it's too over or underpowered for the server to thrive.