Jesus and the Essene Movement--How Were They Related? An In Depth Conversation
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- In this extended conversation with Jacob Berman, host of UA-cam @History-Valley channel, I explore in depth to what degree the the so-called "Essene movement," which most scholars associate with the group that wrote the Dead Sea sectarian scrolls, might be related to the John the Baptist/Jesus movement, that came 100 years later. I offer an overview of my on-line course, "Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls."
Hey everyone, who loves my Channel, or even if you hate it perhaps you have learned something valuable....disagreeing is part of freedom and true dialogue. I remain open...but PLEASE--I would like to hit 50,000 subscribers today...so if you have not subscribed, would you consider doing so...if so thanks, and here is a virtual STAR for you: ⭐
Congrats!
Too late you already hit 50k. Next time put 100k😂
50k subs and 5M views, congrats 🍾
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The "Essenes" were most definitely NOT the 'true Aaronic Levitic Priests', and their 'settlement' was over 20 miles from the Bethabara Priestly Compound, at which John and Jesus learned and taught. Jesus (Yeshua) and John were NOT Essenes!
"The entire modern Old Testament canon was found in Bethabara (Qumran) with the exception of the Book of Esther. For many of these books, these are the oldest copies found and some were complete such as the 24-foot long Isaiah Scroll. After over 70 years, we still know little about this community yet the archaeology, writings of the community and the large compound found there confirm these were the Aaronic Levite Priests, the sons of Zadok, who had been exiled to the Wilderness of Judaea by the Hasmoneans and Pharisees. They were the Temple High Priests replaced by a new unbiblical order. However, today, the world allows the Pharisees to teach us about this community. No wonder we know so little. This was the base of operations for John the Baptist and his disciples where he baptized Jesus(Yeshua) and was visited by Him later privately."
Dr. Tabor - Having taken both of your on-line classes, read most of your books, and watched many of your videos, I better understand and connect the events, times and places after your discussions like this one. I agree with your comment in a video that you like being interviewed by Jacob as he let's you talk...and his questions are well thought out and not just off the cuff. I appreciate your comments about Dr. Ehrman's books. I have read several of them and find his knowledge and insights impressive and his sometimes dry wit entertaining. For those of you who wonder about the Zoom meetings James mentioned, know that I have attended all of them. Each one was great and expanded what I learned in the course. In many ways, they are like going to the coffee shop after a lecture with the prof and hearing him/her chat about the subject.
Fat deal!!😂
Thank you Dr Tabor for sharing your hard work, thoughts and knowledge to help to expand the judeo/christians scholarship. For the benefits of the struggling commoner masses. It helps the common man way more than any of you scholars will ever be able to fully realize.
I took your class. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I've been reading about the Dead Sea scrolls and the group for several years.
The takeaway I'm getting is that, this group came around during the maccabean period and probably shared their message with others. Then I see the John the Baptist group coming in and changing the message a little. Then the Jesus movement coming into their place. Each group kind of building and changing the message slightly to accommodate their end of the world predictions.
Thank you Dr Tabor.
but how did later figures of John the baptizer and Jesus from Nazareth know the predecessor?
For Jesus we see he was a direct follower of John because Mark starts off saying Jesus was baptized by John. So what is the connective tissue of John the baptizer to the predecessor Essennes?
Were those guys really getting their message, their ideas out into the Jewish public at large? What can we point to to show that?
In plain English...Poindexter
Thanks again James!
It's wonderful to be able to access these videos, as a run-of-the-mill non-academic pauper. Thanks so much, Dr. Tabor.
Top notch, as usual. He is one of the best lecturers I can think of, and not just about biblical studies. The delivery is impeccable and the content is reliably well organized and laid out in a linear and logical way. His deductions and conclusions follow directly from the premises he establishes at the beginning of each argument. It's a pleasure to watch. I am also following his series on prophecies: excellent in every respect.
Jesus and John the Bapist in Qumran meeting Essene's Community in AD 26 ,LOVE that thought
Yeah .......praise god
I'm in Waco watching a nascent Koresh movement 30 years after the siege and fire. So many parallels ...
Quester is definitely a way I would describe myself. After reading your book, The Jesus Dynasty, my interest was sprarked, and now I'm really delving into the 1st century Judea history. Thank you so much.
Dr. Tabor, I took the DSS class and found it fascinating. I missed all the zoom meetings so far, but I do catch them afterwards .I just want to go on record that I would readily sign up for an advanced course if you ever do offer it. Thank you for all you do.
"The temple is a den of thieves, the temple is corrupt" haha timeless
Lol, yeah. That would never happen nowadays. 😆
The Temple is your head, and the thieves, robbers, is duality, your two hemispheres of your brain. Jesus is the way between the two.
Equanimity is the Way. The Christ is in you, and happens when you reach perfect balance. The thieves rob stillness, and cause the boat to rock. Be still, and know that I an God.
I. I, is the way. Follow I, and you'll find the self.
A good recording for future digital archaeologists. It is worthy of being extensively indexed with categorized questions so people can have a conversation with the video just as people can converse with the authors of books and with holographic recordings and digital avatars of famous scientists.
There is an obvious relationship perhaps indirect between the Essenes, John the Baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, James the Righteous and Paul of Tarsus. Keep going ;-)
Mr. Tabor it’s always wonderful to hear your thoughts and explanations on ancient subject ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I really enjoy this topic, years ago I went with an Israeli guide into a cemetery where there was a small archaeological dig going on. It was led by Father Bargil Pixner, and Dr. James Strange. They were looking for and found which many believed to be the entryway of the Essene quarter of Jerusalem during the 1st century CE. Thanks for the presentation Dr. Tabor.
So well spoken. Love listening 2 U
This is more coherent than listening to the full interview.
Great work James! These works are absolutely phenomenal and amazing they identify the first temple & 2nd splits and how they really occur. But it can get some upset with how much comes out of Assyrian beliefs that gets adopted in 2nd temple period. .
and as someone who has followed James career for, idk 35 years if your catholic, Jewish, orthodoxy you'd prolly rather learn this from James and the critical textual critique perspective but those who typically study these online do so with alogorical, symbolic, and synonymous projects where their own epistemology will obviously influence translations.
James definitely would teach it with a compassionate aware approach
Thank you very much for your teaching and videos, James. ❤
Though more sensed than clearly understood, the hidden substrate underpinning Judaism, Christianity and the Salt Sea group under discussion, was, and is, the philosophy or following called The Way (הדרך), though in variant form.
The reason why Jesus' teachings were more practical and relaxed than that of the Pharisees and Scribes of his time, was that he knew that the teachings of his forerunners, including those of the original Torah, had long been subsumed into a dogmatic religious form by his time. This is why he said, “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath” (Mark 2:27).
Rest days were originally made, or most likely evolved, for practical reasons, as everyone needed to look after things other than being a slave to a perpetual cycle of work, particularly where physical labor was involved. By dogmatizing such practical logic, and making it the supposed edict of a god who spoke through priesthood intermediaries, the essential idea became 'law', with all its rigidity, attendant taboos and latent poor judgment, by which the populace could be influenced, and often socially controlled, by those priesthoods, often for their sole benefit.
Religion fundamentally concerns itself with dogmas, but as all things change, dogma is by its nature restrictive, and therefore unfit for purpose, as it often gives rise to harm where appropriate action should be taken, as in the case mentioned by Dr. Tabor, where it says, in Matthew 12:11 - He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out?"
Logic would dictate that one should remove the sheep from the pit, though unreasonable thinking and rote and foolish observance would tend towards the contrary. The rest is history, unfortunately for man, yet the logic of The Way remains the same to this day, like unto the force of truth: eternal.
The Way existed before its name, and from its name the opposites evolved, giving rise to three divisions, and then to names abundant, yet of the same root. The three forms are, The Way, that which is not The Way, and that which is like unto The Way. הדרך חיה
I love this channel it's so informative, so much better that a Church doctrine that is so limiting .💖
Professor Tabor. I am a researcher in STEM but you made me really interested in your field of study. Love your approach to physically place the events of early Christianity not only in proper time but also place. If I can ask you to address one question in any of your future presentations: Would you be able to describe the consequences of robbing the Second Tample in 70AD, importing slaves for Coloseum construction, Titus Arch etc. How important was that event for germinating Christianity but also to Judaism?
See this blog post: jamestabor.com/the-destruction-of-pompeii-and-the-new-testament-book-of-revelation/
@@JamesTaborVideos Thank you. Herculaneum library doesn’t seem to contain much about Hebrew monoteism so the biblical texts were unlikely popular in Rome before 79 AD but Greek texts were. Titus and his followers didn’t like the idea of being punished by Hebrew God (there was also a fire in Rome next year) which would explain their attitudes towards Jews and Christians. In gospels the Christians rather blamed the death of Christ on Jews than on Romans to avoid further prosecutions, but One God was clearly on their site. Pompei was a gate but also a place for common and open sex and God clearly didn’t like this too, which would explain why (unlike other religions) Christianity is so careful in regard to human sexuality, to these days. I am Polish, Christianity and Catholic Church had a strong influence on the whole country for the past 1000 years, and still has, and all this because of one Vesuvius’ eruption - i n c r e d i b l e.
Thankyou for such an incredibly insightful take on the first century Jesus' relationship to the Essenes. What can I say, except, how do I enrol in your online course, please?
Oh yes, also, If you look at the angle of the entrance/exit of the Talpiot tomb(with out the apartment blocks), it seems to me that the Tomb faces SW pointing in the direction just slight north of the lowest sunset on 22Dec, more specifically where the sun would set 25Dec on the SW Horizon. Since the Talpiot Hill is the premire site nearest Jerusalem that one can clearly see the sunset in the SW at this point. I use to live in Talpiot and you can go to the top of the Talpiot hill around this time and see the sunset in the same direction the sun is setting
The guy who discovered the scrolls should be more of a household name.
Why
@@bluwng Why not? That was such an important discovery.
Engaging assessment - thank you
Loving the videos. One question, what about the miracles in the gospels? If Jesus read himself into the scriptures, how did the miracles come about? Thanks 🙏
The miracles were God's affirmation of Jesus' authority to preach and teach his good news about the Kingdom. As far as I can see, presuming that Jesus said He was coming back, the prophecies have not yet been full-filled, and all the earlier events were "proleptic prefiguring examples." I don't know when the Rapture will occur, but that hasn't happened yet.
This is definitely a big missing piece of history that truly fills in blanks not to mention its in the heat of the helenistic enlightenment period
James - how long have you studied the Books of Paul ??? How is it that you have totally missed the Roman propaganda clearly written in Pauls books ?
Sir, I’m so glad you stated you are open to change. My observation is the 40 years the Essenes speak of aren’t talked about in the traditional way. I’m under the impression 40 years have a double connotation.
Maybe something to consider.
Hello James, I’m a cohost on Prophecy Roundtable and we would like you to join us some Thursday night at 7:00 Central to explain the Essenes and their calendar.
Where??? Fargo? Sioux City...Mpls..They're all cst
@@DJK-cq2uy Live on StreamYard via UA-cam at 7:00 pm central some Thursday evening.
I might add the unusual darkness that fell upon the earth 3 hours prior to Jesus' death is something to note. This darkness is documented by the Gospel writers Matthew, Mark, and Luke. It is also confirmed by three historians: Thallus, Phlegon, and Africanus. A closer look will reveal strong historical evidence for this unparalleled event.
Please put more information about your Dead Sea scrolls classes in your more comments action. Thank you
Doc, these are my favorite forms of your content
Seems to me Jesus woulda respected the essenes, but I'll bet he had some choice words a á la "robbers in the temple" speech
The Edgar Cayce material, published decades prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, states that Jesus _was_ an Essene.
I’m in the current DSS Zoom class and am thoroughly enjoying it. I’m an agnostic atheist who tends toward the mythicist position, but it doesn’t matter to me if there was really a guy since I don’t believe that anyone was born of a virgin and rose from dead. Even if there was a messianic preacher, what he taught was not literal, in my nonprofessional opinion anyhow. History is endlessly fascinating 🧐
Big deal....wth do we need to know your story...if u don't believe...y waste time learning about someone u deny...smh Ponty the Pontificator!!
😂😂😂😂pfffft hmmmph
Hey James, any word on those skulls found at the Talpiot site. It seems if they could be found the skulls would have some good dna to be compared with the petina found in the ossuaries. Also, the Chevron could represent the Heavens and the dot the Nefesh(soul). The symbol could be a encouragement for the souls of the interned to rise up to Heaven
But the Essene movement was not located only at Qumran. What of those other communities of Essene belief? And did the dispersed Essene community constitute the later Qaraite movement?
This subject interesting me a lot. My previous comment was erased And I did not saved a copy this time. For me the Way is central. John the baptiser , Jesus, the last wider, desert , caves, the Temple, documents the Jesus have read inside, Wisdom that was part of those professes, Walking the Way means being in God's Kingdom, Quran was the evidence of the time, the Teacher who let a guideline for those apocalyptic groups.... Documents that were at the Time in the Temple, were a key. Let everyone thinking on that, more would be a new time censored.
But I feel fuzzy memories imagining or remembering when the temples were for thr holy dance, the holy song, the holy truth and of course the feminine was honored in the temples 🛕
In this video, you equate the Essenes with Qumran. Does it not better buttress your narrative if the Essenes are yet a third and separate group? (Or a fourth group if you count JBap)
He was a highfunctiining autistic as were several if his closest. Sentinels. Clever fellas as the Aborigines might term them. Speaking as an aspie and share many personality traits and ways of calling out wrongs. He was teaching monism and he percieved the sabbath as not in keeping with living in a state of unity consciousness. Too many daft rules causing division from one nature.😊
Even Paul confronted his accuser, then addressed his students on the topic. A lesson in itself.
Wicked teacher.
Clemintine homilies.
“My Kingdom is not of this world”. Dying daily? What does? Not the human body. The Essenes were still attached to the material world in their very specific way. Evidence of this is clear in the DSS. Yeshua departed from this attached view of the teaching. He actually taught of the Spirit. Hence the apostles were still unable to comprehend and live the surrender he presented. Die daily refers to relinquishing any and all attachment to the material realm and the desires of any type that is part of that attachment. This is the path to experiencing the Infinite Invisible that permeates ALL.
Thanks Captain Obvious
I think Mary was an Essene and so was Elizabeth and that’s why the Messiah came through their wombs and so did His voice crying out
Have you read “Jesus’ Biological Father was Joseph: According to the New Testament” by DS WAGGONER? If you even just read the free “sample” pages, I think you might find it interesting. I’ve never heard anyone talk about the points this book makes. Kinda interesting
@@deborahrodriguez-castinado9536 nah no apostasy for me. Seed of the Woman against the Seed of Satan.
@@gettended oh my bad. I thought you did believe the New Testament.
@@deborahrodriguez-castinado9536 👀 bro if you were believing Truth or revelation this mocking spirit wouldn’t be attached to it.
Hi James, I just joined your channel as I have come to be interested in the Dead Sea scrolls through Ken Johnson. I'm wondering if you know him?
A thought/question I just had is this... " Did the Aseenes "know of" Daniel 9:24-27 and the 70 weeks, and particularly the 69 weeks when the Messiah would be cut off? Jesus said that everyone missed the prophetic date in Daniel. Did the Aseenes also miss it? Shouldn't they have been ready at AD32 or thereabouts? Any of their scrolls mention it?
Melchizedek never died, also a Teacher and Priest ... not of Yahweh nor Yahweh's father El Elyon ... , but of the Supreme Creator who abides in the light of Love and Truth.
Melchizedek the image of Christ Jesus. Same DNA. Birthed from the wombs of Virgins.
Melchizedek from Sothinim (elderly virgin wife of Noah's brother Nir who was a Priest) and Jesus from Mary. Sothinim died BTW and Noah and Nir had to perform the operation to remove Melchizedek from the Womb. He was taken to Paradise to be raised (before the Great Deluge).
Melchizedek was the Mentor to Jesus.
Preparing 'The Way'. ???
So Melchizedek never died, he was Immortal, a Priest and King He stands on the left side of the Creator and the Christ stands on the Right. Both are manifestations of 'The Word'.
Abraham bowed to Melchizedek when Aaron and Moses the Levites were still in the groins of Abraham. Thus The Law Of Christ and of Melchizedek is higher and first before Moses. Christ and Melchizedek are 'One' in water and blood. They serve The Holy Spirit of The Creator.
John was the Apostle (not given the 'Key') who followed up on Paul (later Peter also) and 'stole' all the converts of Asia Minor who abandoned Paul with that new Gospel of Grace, 'The New Covenant'.
John of Patmos wrote to them in Revelations and placed them under a curse (Jesus said "never curse, only bless" ) and reviled against them without love toward them. He claimed the Son of Man would come and with a sword slay them, blood up to His waist so to speak. Well, Jesus wasn't schizophrenic. He Loves All, ready to Forgive and Embrace, is Mentor, a Deliverer, a Redeemer, Reconciles, Mediates ... You scientifically cannot both love and hate at the same time.
John was pedantic about the adherence to the Law. He actually never had his heart into the 'Gentiles as acceptable'. He reneged on the agreement about food etc. He never agreed that they could enter past the outer courts. They could eat the crumbs of 'The Children',
John couldn't grasp that the Law was superseded by a greater promise, to include and reconcile ALL.
John was infused with the spirit of Yahweh. He does and says fearful things in his 'Death Throes'.
And John dies a natural death.
Christ indicated that the Wedding Feast would have any who didn't know Him, (void of mentors feeling lost and destitute maybe), to be gathered by Angels to take the seats of those (churches of Asia Minor?) apostates when He returned for that Generation as a 'Thief in the Night'.
The Temple was toppled in 70 AD and so the 'Old' was made forfeit, John is on Patmos. The Churches preach a Judean style of Christianity according to those leaders, John and James.
There has been an 'enemy' that took hold of the children of Abraham, children of promise that beguiled and extorted and raged, gave serpents as food and encouraged hatred within the family and war without. "You are of your Father the Devil". Peace will never come to the Old Law adherents because it recognizes 'Sin' without naming how to perform 'The Way'.
The New order embraces even fallen Principalities that yearn to be reconciled.
In English...good grief!!!! 😂😂😂pfffft hmmmph...This genius on the video...explains simply...when did that go outa style...lighten up Poindexter
Thank you….JamesTabor
I have a 1916 Essenes book… it is in an abbreviated code … “ any” input would be very appreciated.
It’s pretty simple and the religions of the world make it complicated, Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you and your body is the temple of the living God. Look within ❤
شكرا
The Essences did not live in Qumran, they were in En Gedi to the south. Qumran was the exiled priests from the Temple, sons of Zadok.
Yep.
If it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, the Kingdom of God has come upon you.
(Lk. xi, 20)
They Romanized the Essenne movement, didn't they? ✝
I think Edgar Cayce were right on the money about the essenes and Yeshua.
What did he say about them?
@@lucycarrillo5712 That they, the inner esoteric core of the essenes, anticipated his arrival and worked intimately with higher beings to prepare the ground for decades before his birth. In other words, Cayce saw Mary and Joseph as essenes.
What do you think about thr idea they were communing with liquidof a psychadelic nature?
This is so interesting
Esoteric Christianity:
Gnosis:
God = Life
"I am come, that you might have Life and have it more abundantly."
Jesus = Humane Humanity
Christ = at One with Life
Holy Spirit = Eternally actualizing Infinite potential.
The abstract (Heaven) called Love by the Psyche (Firmament) can be expressed concretely (Earth) as a smile, hug, etc, thereby uniting Heaven and Earth.
We are an open ended possibility.
Nice one!
@@anoukooosterhof 💝
The straw man always wins the argument! Come on dude you’re not telling us the truth.
A seeker, I like that term 😊
I have a deep feeling that the teacher figure was not a man but it or he was present in the words of the prophets and the writings.
And his name is the word of GOD.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Once you know this the book of solemn and all the earliest works like job pops off your Bible and even the helenistic enlightenment jep new literary & practices show up to even a novice reader.
The kadokite first temple reveals itself and does strengthen their arguments especially now we have archeology on the near east.
What Abraham is fleeing and all these type of things really come to life when you learn all these things
Might the 2 messiah prophesied be John the Baptizer of priestly heritage and Jesus of David's lineage?
I like this guy. He doesn't seem to have an agenda. Still believe in Jesus though. Time will tell
The "Essenes" were most definitely NOT the 'true Aaronic Levitic Priests', and their 'settlement' was over 20 miles from the Bethabara Priestly Compound, at which John and Jesus learned and taught. Jesus (Yeshua) and John were NOT Essenes!
"The entire modern Old Testament canon was found in Bethabara (Qumran) with the exception of the Book of Esther. For many of these books, these are the oldest copies found and some were complete such as the 24-foot long Isaiah Scroll. After over 70 years, we still know little about this community yet the archaeology, writings of the community and the large compound found there confirm these were the Aaronic Levite Priests, the sons of Zadok, who had been exiled to the Wilderness of Judaea by the Hasmoneans and Pharisees. They were the Temple High Priests replaced by a new unbiblical order. However, today, the world allows the Pharisees to teach us about this community. No wonder we know so little. This was the base of operations for John the Baptist and his disciples where he baptized Jesus(Yeshua) and was visited by Him later privately."
I cannot figure out who or what your quotations refer to; could you please clarify this?
The suffering servant in Isa 53 suffers more than one death. The teacher may well have been just one incarnation of that individual and Jesus was him being born again.
Did the Essenes accept any form of reincarnation? The suffering servant is specifically identified as Jacob. How do you know it wasn’t Jacob himself? In Rev, the suffering servant suffers since the foundation. The similarities are hard to dismiss and also mirrors prophets that also suffered. Israel is Jacob who solely wrestles with god in all incarnations until the end when he sees the light and then makes his life an offering. Then he sees his own children and lives a long life. Whoever he was, he wasn’t necessarily wrong.
And you know of His multiple sufferings..how? Pfffft
@@DJK-cq2uy Rev says the lamb was suffering since the foundation and at the end is found worthy to open the seals. And as I pointed out, those suffering servant passages clearly say it’s Jacob. Jacob as you should know, was the only one called Israel and all those people who also call themselves Israel are worshipping a replacement theology just as the Christians do who say they’re Israel too. I’m using scriptures to back up my theories. Jacob had that vision of ascending and descending angels and then god names him Israel and promises he’ll bring him back into that land. Angels back then were human messengers or prophets. I’m saying Jacob was also reincarnated as other prophets like Jeremiah and of course Jesus. You’re using childless insults and not at all responding to the scriptures I referenced.
❤
The Jesus story and the story of the Teacher of Righteousness overlap so closely, one is driven to suspect that the two stories and the two protagonists became conflated, perhaps at the point when Essenes merged with the early Christians following the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Essenes, Zealots, and Sadducees seem to have disappeared at this stage, but what if Essenes survived, adopted by early Christians, and made a lasting contribution to Christian story telling and liturgy, based on their memories and customs?
Mr. James do you think Jesus was educated in Alexandria. The family was told to go to Alexandria and Mother Mary was entrusted with the Gold given to Jesus I believe for his Education and though the library was burnt down there must be scholars in the city, and it was the centre of Education in that time and when he came back at the age of twelve to Jerusalem the Rabbis were amazed at his Education.
I Think It's Great, That The More Specifics You Learn, About These People Being Invaded By The Romans, That They Couldn't Do Anything About It. 1-13-24
I LOVE YOU JAMES!
ONE OF MY FAVORITE SCHOLARS.
So please, don't be offended. I'm only asking why you don't talk about the allegories, and stop focusing on the prophecies. So for instance, the bread from Heaven, coming down the spine, the staff of Moses, is the Christos, coming down from the head, to the base of the staff, at Gabatha, or pavement, where your butt is seated on the ground.
I mean, even the word "seminary" school, is from the root word "semen". Learning to hold your life force, and let it return to heaven, your head, is saying don't waste your seed. Are these all just by chance. I say no. I think the Essenes where from India, and they were teaching Kundalini practices, that the Romans re-wrote.
The dead sea, is the dead seed.
I agree with Dr. Tabor the first king to be called mashiach or messiah was Saul. King Solomon was also called mashiach, etc. If there have been many buddhas so there have been many christs. The word “christ” is a transliteration of the Greek christos, it means anointed one. It comes from a root word that means to smear or rub with oil, and carries with it the connotation of a sacred or religious act. The term, whether in Greek or Hebrew, was used of those who were set apart for various roles in God’s service, primarily priests, kings and prophets - offices that Jesus himself filled. In Scripture, the act of anointing someone with oil occasionally coincided with an “anointing” of the Holy Spirit which empowered the recipient to do the work of the Lord. Many of my hard-core Christian friends disagreed with me and they ghosted me. So be it.
Okay. Here’s why I’m a Preterite.
When Jesus talks about the Son of Man ascending on the clouds of heaven - that happens in heaven. He’s talking about his enthronement.
At the end of Revelation - he’s still on his throne. He has not descended. But the *Church* has. In fulfillment of Isaiah - who says this over and over and over again! - that a new people will be chosen. They are gentiles who have streamed into Jerusalem with a remnant of Jews. All the rest are expelled from the club. They are condemned in Isaiah 57. This is fulfilled in John 12…
…which then directs you to Isaiah 6, where (according to John) Isaiah meets the pre-incarcerated Jesus. Who then makes it clear: he’s going to throw them out. And if even ten percent remain, he’s going to throw *them* out. Chop them down like a tree. So there’s Jerusalem and Masada - which looks like the stump of a felled tree - and bar Kokhba.
Meanwhile 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 tells us that when Jesus comes there will be *no* sign. There will be *no* war. Therefore he is *not* talking about Revelation. Or Daniel. Or any of that. He’s just going to pop up.
Two. Separate. Events.
Now I’ll grant the first believers might have *thought* he was coming back soon. Probably because they were raised in the apocalyptic thinking you described. But they were wrong because that’s not what he said. In fact, if you bring in the timeline of Isaiah 6 that was impossible. The time to start looking for Jesus was early 136AD.
Did the Essences teach that the Messiah would be Gd ? I'm just trying to understand how the jewish followers of Jesus decided it was ok for a human to be worshipped as Gd.
Another great interview. Your point that mythologies and archetypes are stories that get repeated in peoples lives is spot on. It is one thing to read stories of myth and archetype from ages past and try to put a modern interpretation and understanding on them and take written accounts from that Era as evidence for or against it's veracity.
It is quite another thing to have been a 1st hand eyewitness to an event that involves the realms or dimensions beyond this earth and what the 5 sense organs convinced the mind is the final reality. There is a Gate into this realm, that I call the heavens, and many ascend regularly into it and try to share it. Some for good, some for lesser. Eternal life is true as I understand it, but that existence can be exp lained as heaven or hell. It is a personal choice.
Ok, Smart Guy, what about Copper Scroll?
John The Baptist and Jesus were Not connected with the Essenes in any way.
The belief in women and the sabbath place is radically different. (Just 2 main points to show the incompatibility between them).
There was meny groups of Essenes
thank you
Yeah, but what about Eisenman?
Oh, okay.
Hayyi rabbi is mentioned by John in the gospel of John. The living father is a term quoted from Jesus. Lol there are literal words of Jesus from the essenes.
The scweitzer theory of carrying out messianic prophecy may have some basis considering the bar mitvah words ' today in your midst the word is fulfilled ' . Look how he did himself .
Seems like literary mimesis to me
Jesus did exist. His name was Judas the Galilean in a Roman rewrite to quell messianic rebellions. I like obfuscating the obvious sometimes also, to make a nice discussion.
Yeshu ben Pantera
Jesus never existed but the Essenes did and, unlike Jesus, were well-documented.
If you're reading this, remember that God is your constant companion. He paves the way for you, stands beside you, and watches over you. Face your current situation with unwavering confidence, knowing that God's love and guidance surround you. Amen! 🌺🙏💓
_"Face your current situation with unwavering confidence, knowing that God's love and guidance surround you."_
God punishes children for things that their fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and great-great grandfathers did. He is so proud of this that he repeated it four times in the Bible-
Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
"I, the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
Exodus 34:7
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."
Numbers 14:18
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
If you fail to follow all of God's commandments, God will curse your children-
Deuteronomy 28:15-18
"If thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day ... Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body."
And sometimes God slaughters children for the unspecified sins of their fathers-
Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."
The Great and Mighty God shows loving kindness to thousands, but punishes children for the iniquities of their fathers-
Jeremiah 32:18
"Thou shewest loving kindness unto thousands, and recompense the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name."
_"Face your current situation with unwavering confidence, knowing that God's love and guidance surround you."_
God blessed Abraham by giving him lots of slaves.
Genesis 24:35
"The Lord has blessed my master abundantly, and he has become wealthy. He has given him sheep and cattle, silver and gold, male and female servants, and camels and donkeys."
God's rules for slave ownership-
Exodus 12:44
Don't let any of your uncircumcised slaves eat the Passover meal-
"But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof."
Don't covet your neighbor's slaves-
Exodus 20:17
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's."
Deuteronomy 5:21
"Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's."
Exodus 21:2
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve, and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing."
Please read the Bible's New Testament. Many of your questions will be answered.
I find the parallels between the Dead Sea Scrolls group and John the Baptist and Jesus absolutely fascinating. Surely there is some connection?
Over 100 tattered scrolls in the caves, these are the more biblical scriptures whereas the Nag scrolls, were about 14 books, are the teaching of the metaphysical teachings that Jesus taught to His 12 and only spoke the parables to the common people. The church will never teach these higher teachings because the church needs you, but you do not need the church if you have that relationship in Christ. These teachings were of the higher hidden teachings about that Spark of Divinity in each of us now for the Kingdom is in and around you now, but we by faith have to activate it to be enlightened to understand we are here only for a moment and our original home was and is with Creator/ Trinity. Everything is circular, Ecclesiastes. If you are a higher thinker and can understand these Gnostic teachings about ridding oneself of ego, they are a hidden treasure. read the Gospel of Mary and Philp. Then the G of Thomas, then Tripartite Tractate which is a harden read to understand. If you have discernment, you will see even these Gnostic books ALL POINTS TO JESUS.
These are the people in an island of a community far from the temple where Yokhanan wrote the revelation before the arrival of the recipient of that revelation which was Yeshua!
Yeshua spread the message of the prophet and truly blessed those who heard and kept those words!
Why?
Because the Roman’s were building roads or kaypha to the temples since they knew they were filled with treasure.
Money was the demise of the Jewish empire!
Ironic?
Year 66 the war started by Roman’s who were 6 themselves!
666
69 Pompei - a sex city all killed by toxic gas
70- Roman’s realize what Yeshua said all comes true
The greatest pegans become scared and turn Christian
But the beast revived itself into Roman Catholicism
What is more viscous than that plus Jews in the last 3500 years?
Women Teachers
Everything pointed out, Jesus is mythology.
That's not what he said.
@WhiteTrashTrailer that is my conclusion as scientist.
Busy
777th like! Rainbow bodies for everyone!!! 🌈 ❤🎉
✡🕎 שאלה כללית שמעולם לא נענתה אמפירית:
but you are the most qualified. During the ten plagues in Exodus; the tenth was in retribution for the same at the time of Moshe's birth. Though probably not the same Pharaoh that Moshe grew up with; to be the Pharaoh would be the birthright of the "firstborn" heir. Posing the rub, said the Bard; why wasn't he killed? בנג'מין בר בנג'מין אדוארדס האב
Wow non instrumental churches of christ what a crime
Try iceni
The fact that Jesus is this blanket cover all that yiu can apply to anything or anyone is a bit of a hint that he wasnt real, isnt it?
No historical person can be tailor to be a mushroom, a historical rabbi, agitator, angel, preacher, apocalyptic, rtx etc etc.... a historical person could not be claimed by people to be anything other than what he was. All i see is peolle claiming Jesus was this and Jesus was that.... Actual hiatorical persons do not have this issue.
We never argue as to what the nature of alexander the great was or julius caesar..because we know they were human people. There's only so much lying yiu can do about them.
Jesus on the hand is everything. He is exactly the same as whichever theorists talk about him in that moment. And if your character is a cover all that can be fit everywhere and be claimed to be anything..... He likely wasnt historical
I believe Joseph and Mary were Essenes
Algorithm support
Which of the Dead Sea Scrolls are these "Teacher Hymns" you are talking about?
The "Q" source, and any collection of Jesus' sayings would have had to be older than Paul's letters. The Jerusalem Church would have kept them, and they would be the topic of most discussions, to keep everyone on the same track. Those, and the first early creeds found in Paul's letters, followed by the four compiled Gospels, were the foundation of all of the Apostle's preaching. The obvious fact that we don't have anything supposedly written by Jesus says that He didn't leave any writings to be preserved. No one would have been careless enough to lose the only copies.
This would be a great class to take if you really want to deconstruct your faith and lose it.
The miracles were God's affirmation of Jesus' authority to preach and teach his good news about the Kingdom. As far as I can see, presuming that Jesus said He was coming back, the prophecies have not yet been full-filled, and all the earlier events were "proleptic prefiguring examples."
I don't know when the Rapture will occur, but that hasn't happened yet. As I read the signs of the times, however, it might not be too far off. The Great Apostasy has already begun.