Woah Pyrion is still reading Sapiens. He mentioned it like 4 years ago on the triforce and I read it based on that recommendation. Dude must read like a sentence a day
Where I live we had a group of people remove the head of a statue of a civil war hero who fought /against/ the south. A bunch of people got angry, saw a statue, assumed a bad old person, and then vandalized the statue of a guy who fought against slavery.
That sniper rifle story. Lewis was definitely watching Forgotten Weapons videos on youtube, the story is exactly the same as the way Ian tells it on there
Debating if Thucydides was a real person is actually crazy, when there are lots of written documents with his name on them. They really underestimate old written documents. They were not written by a single crazy man but from different people in different parts of ancient greece, with actual proof and credibility.
In Chicago, you used to be able to pick up copies of the Onion in newspaper boxes throughout the city. It was extremely common to see people on the subway just reading the Onion. Good, simple times.
Lewis's experience with the Bristol's riots is like mine with Portland Oregon's riots didn't see anything, but you'd think they burned the whole city down according the national news.
I deal with empires every day in being a US university admissions specialist in international applications. Most of the countries of the world (not all but a lot) have educational systems they had installed when they were under the control of England, France, Portugal, and Russia. It may be largely unchanged or it may have evolved since whatever country gained independance but knowing which empire used to occupy a country gives you a baseline to understand where the transcript system of that nation comes from, if you are unfamiliar or don't see that country in the applicant pool very often.
So I started replaying through another campaign in CK3 last night listening to sips' stream when it was first released and then he talks about his Pennywhacker escapades in this episode! How perfect!
With Dark Souls, its tuned in a way that dying is actually a mechanic, you can get a greater number of souls from dying and you learn something each time
When you guys were talking about the re-naming of certain p[laces or removal of statues etc. I was unfortunately reminded of my Easter this year. Even with only 7 people gathering (5 of which are vaccinated, the other 2 of which have been as isolated as possible) the conversation touched on Plimouth Plantation in Massachussetts. Being from upstate NY I remember visiting Plimoth Plantation on a school trip or a family vacation or what have you, but people are reconsidering calling it a "plantation" because of the word's history with slavery. Fair enough. They want to change it to "Plimoth Patuxet" in reference to the Patuxet native people, without whom the original settlement would have surely perished or underwent extreme casualties. Fair enough, let them change the name, that makes sense. But during my Easter get together, my parents and aunt and uncles (all over 65 mind you) were in a tizzy about why they needed to change the name of such a historic location. My cousin, who is 48, and I, who am 25, just stayed on the outside of that conversation. And before someone corrects me for spelling it "Plimoth", yes, the town is named "Plymoth" but the former plantation is referred to as "Plimoth" with an i for some reason. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the Pilgrims. Or if you'd prefer, the Pylgryms. XD
Lewis is severely understating the protest bill. It basically outlaws protest. Any protest that is found to be “annoying” can be ruled illegal and all protestors jailed for ten years. It’s dystopian and dangerous.
The issue with changing names/removing statues is that if these acts are done by force by a (small) number of passionate individuals it’s not conducive to a democratic and therefore free society. If a pub changes their name because of how “bad” the name is on their own without being belligerently forced to by a mob, i have no problem with that. If a council removes a statue because the people democratically decided that statue shouldn’t be there, that’s fine, if the actual people want this, then I have no problem allowing them to do it. But if a mob of like a hundred (max) politcally active teenagers and young adults unilaterally decide to remove a statue themselves and then dump it in the harbor, wasting an exorbitant amount of money to then have that statue removed from the harbor, that’s where the issue begins. You can’t force things to change to the way you want them to, no matter how righteous or just you think you are, you don’t do things without due process.
it can be seen as civil disobedience tho, and I don't think civil disobedience is inherently bad in all cases. But again if you do civil disobedience and the general public sympathizes with you (like the civil rights movement for example) then it is some form of democracy because you have popular support, but in the case of statues there doesn't seem to be that support so civil disobedience becomes inappropriate.
The community in Bristol was campaigning for years to remove that statue and the Council kept blocking it. It wasn't a "small group of passionate individuals" who wanted it taken down.
Onion began in Madison Wisconsin. I remember seeing it appear in Milwaukee newspaper boxes back in about 1992 or 93. Made every Thursday just a little more fun!
the way they describe battle brothers reminds me of Mordheim. 1 death can cost you all of your money and death can sometimes just not be avoided, and it takes forever to level the team up, and then you can have one bad fight and be completely ruined
Imagine comparing the Hong Kong protests where a mega state is arresting and killing people versus students moaning about not being able to break statues illegally
8:56 Honestly, that's something that could make a fascinating documentary or something how online some companies just fail only to be replaced by something else that does almost exactly the same thing but get more popular. Myspace to Facebook Vine to TikTok AoL to Skype to Discord to maybe Zoom I'm sure there are various dating sites that were similar to Tinder. Etc
For Pyrions point, if you're changing the name of a pub that means nothing, why would changing it make any difference? It could be just as easy to say that changing the name of something because of ideology is just as selfish as not wanting it to change.
In regards to Stoneshard and Pflax not liking the fact that you can't save until you get back to town, I'd like to point to games with hardcore mode. It's perfectly fine that not everybody enjoys playing hardcore games where you lose everything, but at the same time there is a market for people that enjoys the thrill of this kind of experience. Stoneshard is the kind of game where every day is a new hardcore run, and if you can make it to the end of the day then you take a step towards permanent progress. I get it, not everybody is going to enjoy this. Personally I liked the challenge, I don't think it's fair to call it bad game design, just a niche target audience.
So, disregarding things that don't actually effect someone's life, it's self for people to not want change, but somehow not selfish for others to want change that would uproot someone else's life that has nothing to do with that change?
American Conservatism at least, is about preserving individual rights. For example, everyone slags off the second amendment every time there's a shooting. "Why do you need these kinds of weapons?" But they fail to point out the millions of defensive uses of firearms, which stop countless crimes. And for me at least, the right to defend oneself from harm is fundamental. "Criminals are still debating whether or not to obey the strict gun control measures." Absurd.
@@darrenfleming7901 I think there are plenty of innovative traditional roguelikes, they just don't get any attention because the 20 year old games that people are still working on take up so much of the conversation.
If we should judge the past on todays standards you should remove more or less everything thats more then 50 years old. Slavery, torture, and other things have been prevalent in any culture. We must accept, that people are the product of their time. Yes, there were a lot of slave traders in the 1600 hundreds, because that was the norm.... In 200 years there will probably be a debate about how horrible we were and someone like me will again argue, that you can`t judge them by today's standards and so it will continue forever....... Because people have a hard time in putting themselves in other people's places.
@@alphasword5541 why only statues? Buildings also commemorate people and cultures. The Great Wall of China, Pantheon in Greece, The Pyramides has also been involved in things that we will not accept today, including slavery/serfdom. You see? We can just go on forever, until there is northing left for furture generations. In the future people might judge us for using trains and cars, that didn`t run on clean energy. Well, what can we do. We are a product of our time and have no choice or don`t know better. We are however trying to change that, just like people back then removrd serfdom/slavery in large parts of the world, especially the west.
I live outside of Charlotte in the US in a conservative small city and when the riots and protests began in 2020, I didn't see much of anything except videos from people protesting where cops were using methods to disperse the crowds. I've only ever been to one protest myself with a few friends when Ted Cruz came to my city. We held signs outside on the sidewalk in opposition. Many people applauded us and many others were very rude and some people even recorded us standing there silently and peacefully on the public sidewalk and posted it online calling us, at the time, misguided teenagers. It was quite fun though. Would do it again. I'd also like to say that the yogscast has always been known to be more left-wing and poke fun at religion. Simon and lewis have science backgrounds (lewis in chemistry and simon has a failed astrophysics degree) and many other yogs are not religious either. I'd say I've heard most if not all of them that I watch say something about religion being dumb at one point or another or making comments that clearly show their more left-wing takes. These things shouldn't come as a surprise to people who've been fans for very long. It's really not hard at all to notice they're all similar in political and religious views. I for one, living in a conservative Christian area, raised by fundamentalists, used the Yogscast as a younger teenager and now young adult specifically to escape being trapped in such a right wing religious environment. I heavily appreciate who they are and what they stand for. Boba is bisexual and has a trans flag, ped has a trans flag, some friends of the Yogs are trans and nonbinary or racial minorities. Lewis, Simon, pyrion, sips, and many others are openly atheist and critical of religion and always have been online. It's really nothing new. To see so many surprised and offended people in the comments of this particular video is astonishing. Yogs have made many more explicit statements on other social media and past videos. I dont even use Twitter, Reddit, Tiktok, or snapchat and I know of Simon's clapback at Notch for being transphobic. It's all in their videos and always has been. They even explicitly state that they believe they've already driven off most of the people who disagree with them from viewing just by nature of being vocal about their views, not that it was intentional, but by the very nature of who they are. It's also known that Bristol, London, Sweden, the Netherlands, and so on are more left-wing and nonreligious than other areas, so again, it really shouldn't be surprising that the yogs are more left-wing and non-religious.
One thing about this policing bill is that the public has the right to demonstrate in the public domain. When extinction rebellion was blocking roads as annoying as that might be it was their right to do so. Of cause as soon as you go into private land that's a problem. The protesters in Bristol had the right to protest on that land as soon as some set fires and attacked people they were in the wrong but only those few people who did that. Let's not criminalise a whole protest based on the actions of a few people.
You have the right to protest, you don't have the right to block traffic, neither do you have the right to knock someones head in or burn a building in protest.
I respect pyrion a lot but what he said about conservatism is the most crazy generalization I have ever heard. I’m a libertarian with some conservative values. We want things to change but with our freedoms in tact. the Republican Party abolished slavery in the US and they are very conservative. I promise we like progression just not in meaningless ways
Also speaking about statues they represent history and if you dismiss history you are bound to repeat it. Even if we don’t know exactly every statue they need to stand to represent where we’ve come from
Yeah the way phrases it is as if conservatism is bad is just bad. I understand innovation and change can be good, but it can also just be bad. For example: cancel culture. And the same argument could be said about, people who want statues to be pulled down and places to be renamed. This has never harmed you, so why do you care about it.
I also don't see how he can claim that wanting things to stay the same is any more selfish than demanding they change, both are self serving positions. What matters is how and why.
The parties switched the republican party hasn't been the party of Lincoln for a very long time now. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the same people who wave around confederate flags also vote republican?
man, hard same on stone shard. there's stuff i liked but i couldn't go back after just straight up losing an hour and a half of my life. fuck that noise.
The problem I have with changing names because of slavery is that we as a people have had slaves for what 3986 of the 4000 years of recorded history and probably before that.(Mauritania is the world's last country to abolish slavery in 2007) It had been a common practice these people are being wronged for something that was common place in their time, we are more enlightened but we shouldn't hold them to the same light as people in our own generation. Think of 100 years from now we go to 100% vegetarian then in 50 years after that they want to change the names of all the places that were meat eaters, "churchill will a savage carnivore we can't have anything named after him". Not exactly the same but along the same lines why judge him for eating meat if it was common practice since we can remember. If that is the case don't we also need to rename rome, cairo, athens, etc they all had slaves and shouldn't we tear down the colosseum since it was built by slaves and was used to torture slaves? Just if we don't stand up to this injustice where/when will it stop.
Well said flax *claps* Note: I was apart of those extinction rebellion protests in london a few years back, and glued my hands to parliament square n barricaded the roads.. There were a lot of folk who hated us.. but truly, there is not a lot being done at all w/ climate change. There were loads of teachers, and scientists with us, I'm an nhs nurse, and 'twas a great peaceful demonstration ^-^
Thucydides (I think its more like thu kid diddies) is 10 times better than Herodotus. Herodotus is just a fiction author like Homer who is also really valuable as a source in history but Herodotus didn't consider himself a 'historian/historiographer' and Thucydides really established Historiography. Thucydides is brilliant and really relevant today which is marvellous considering how old it is. www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/29/what-thucydides-knew-about-the-us-today/
On Scrutiny in Game design : 1. Twitch chat defends most likely because of sympathy for the developer. Most of Twitch chat probably has some connection to developers, knows the stresses and impossibilities of being a developer, and will defend them out of pure reflex. 2. Console gamers have been through a lot of terrible games from big budget companies, with horrible practices, botched releases, bugs and glitches. Its like the developers of these dont care about the product because they know it will sell anyway. Console gamers have forgot what a good game IS, so go easy on games they see at least working. On making games Harder : 1. Souls Experience - Dark Souls was popular, Dark Souls was unforgivably hard. Therefore, all games must be made unforgivably hard to be popular like Dark Souls. 2. All games must be balanced. I can make this element easier or harder to balance with the other elements. But if I make it easier, thats going to be too spoonfed and babyish. Lets make it harder. (Ped describing Barry's Blebs mentality when designing Race for the Wool maps). 3. The Game Designers know their own game, but dont Test it with people who dont. So they have no idea how hard it is.
Racism is a strange thing because you'd imagine that racism had existed for an exceptionally long time. The concept of 'race' was not realised until the early to mid 19th century, due to an improved understanding of evolution, and it is known as 19th Century Anglo-Saxonism, which is actually based on the belief that Anglo-Saxons are superior to the Celtic peoples inhabiting the Celtic fringes of Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Ireland. The British press in the 19th century often published satirical cartoons depicting Irishmen as apes (not as evolved), and this attitude was also often attributed to the other Celtic peoples in the press.
You don't need to know what 'race' is to be racist. People have been xenophobic for thousands to millions of years, it's in our DNA. The same way you would now still be cautious with strangers and are more likely to trust people who are in your general group of people i.e. friends of friends and the likes. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, you just have to keep it in mind
People were always racist/xenophobic. The ancient Greeks didn't even see Persians or Germanic/Gaelic people as human. There are written examples of debates within Greek society with people debating over if the "blacks" (mainly regarding Ethiopians) and "blondes" (Germanic peoples) are even the same thing as "whites" (Greeks). It is very foolish to think racism is a new thing.
@@JohnDoe-lw1si My point was that in the 19th Century, improved understanding of evolution led to the coining of terms like 'race'. Yes, discrimination has always been present across civilisations over the course of human history, but race as a term and as a concept was derived from 19th century ideas of evolution. Evolution was used in more modern times to justify racism, despite the idea of race actually being total nonsense. Race implied that there were fundamental differences between DNA of people from different parts of the world, which, of course, is not true. Historically, the term 'race' was not used before the 19th Century, where it began to see rampant usage to describe even people from, say, Yorkshire, or Lancashire. However this quickly developed into a tool to discriminate minorities from different countries; in Britain, mostly Irish people and other Celts; in America, mostly African people. In countries like Germany and France, the countries would use the newly developed concepts of race to discriminate each other.
@@selsig_dwp Yes, but people have always done it. They didn't use the term "race" because often they didn't even see others as humans. The 19th did give rise to many new terms but the framework was always there. People have always found ways and terms to use to other people. The best example is how civilizations like China, Japan, the Greeks, or Romans called people living outside their zone of control. They would name them things like barbarians (which basically means people who go bar bar because the Greeks didn't even think they had a proper language because they couldn't understand them) or savages (literally wild men which are different from civilized men). China believed they were the only true civilization for centuries despite their neighbors having roughly the same level of tech and society.
Jesus was 100% a real person who had followers when he was alive. Whether he could walk on water is a different matter but he definitely was a real guy
We absolutely do not 100% know that actually. There is broad scholarly agreement that sure probably some dude named Jesus probably existed in that region and rough time period, but essentially every meaningful claim about that figure is in dispute including whether or not he had followers.
@@nephatrine what I've heard recently was that the actual Jesus that everyone has come to know might have been multiple people that got rolled up into one sort of figure for people to follow the teachings of. There was a few discrepancies with the whole timeline of the Bible, some of the people couldn't have possibly known everything they knew about Jesus
@@nephatrine There aren't any reputable scholars who don't believe that Jesus existed. I think we can feel pretty confident in saying that he was definitely a real person from that time period.
@@knitterknerd there are a few ‘scholars’ who dispute Jesus was real, but their expertise is nothing to do with middle eastern history from 2000 years ago. Historians who specialise in that era and locations, regardless of their religious or philosophical beliefs, generally all believe Jesus lived
Something else to consider with ancient history is that it had a different purpose. They didn't have the same compulsion to record everything accurately just for the sake of records. They were usually trying to make a point, and they were fully expected to change a few details to make that point. Today, we want to know exactly what happened, but people didn't intend to give us completely accurate details because they just didn't care. I live in a fairly medium-sized city. There was a protest here shortly after George Floyd's death. They mostly stayed in one area, but at one point, enough of them were crossing a road at once (maybe jaywalking?) that the police considered it to be blocking traffic. Not that it was terribly busy, or that it would have been difficult to drive around using a nearby road, but it was an excuse. They technically announced that they were going to use pepper spray, but they announced it as they were using it, not before. Of course, that's not how it was reported, but a friend of mine had video of parts of it, and other people had more of it recorded. It was also reported that a police vehicle was attacked. and that a business was vandalized by protesters. The "attack" was a thrown water bottle that bounced off as harmlessly as you'd expect. The business owner shared security footage that showed how the vandalism happened. Men with white supremacy tattoos walked up to the windows with a brick, obviously hoping to frame the protestors. Protestors tried to dissuade them, but they ended up walking away, rather than resorting to violence. A white supremacist then threw the brick, which broke the window. Most people I know still believe what was originally reported, and that the protestors had the intent to be violent from the beginning.
I am an conservative, I am old-fashioned, I am authoritian but I do believe in the right to political demonstrations. And I DESPISE the media for misrepresenting them with the "so-and-so-many-police-injuries" -bullshit. Riots are bad, but when one happens, the one's in power should really sit down and think "Why did this happen?".
Check out this guy SandRhoman his channel is History and mostly military and middle ages or early modern but this video is about the theory of historiography. ua-cam.com/video/FVm3eNMmCMY/v-deo.html It seems history has entered it's post-post-modern era.
Whenever you guys talk about history, I gotta cringe... ancient historians arent just some jokers that we can happily ignore and comparing them to stuff in the bible is a bit ludicrous. Apples and oranges. Dont wanna go into a religious argument here, but what is known of the bible, in a nutshell, is that yeah, it's a collection of authors whose texts have been compiled, picked and chosen over hundreds of years after their time of writing. The contents are not historical in any way, even if alot has made its way into culture to such a degree that people think it is. As for the subject itself, old accounts... you guys treat the subject in such a binary way, as if people were taking it all as complete truth and we're just learning today that it's all bollocks. It is and has been the job of historians to read these old sources, compare them with each other, use what material evidence we got and the best of their educated judgement with the known realities of the time to take what truth we can. You mention Herodot and numbers of soldiers in battles: he claims the army of king Xerxes was millions in numbers... obviously, that cant be true. It's been calculated that this would mean the first soldier arrived at the battle with the greeks at the Thermopyles while the last persian wouldnt have left the capital (width/length of road). However, we know that Herodot wrote a generation after the battle and got his information from soldiers of the battle. Numbers also had a different meaning back then, where a word like "millions" could just be used to describe an "incredibly large amount of", as neither him nor his sources probably got a good opportunity to count them all. So yeah, the exact numbers of soldiers are guesses by historians at best. BUT, this doesnt mean Herodot's text is all useless, nor that we have no idea what really happened. We still know that the battle occured and we know plenty of specific pieces of information about it. Ancient historians dont have an easy task, separating real info from vague stuff and uncertainties... but these texts arent all either perfectly accurate truth or rubbish. A few short things: - historians in the future may also have a hard time, as we record alot of stuff on supports that wont last long. Most digital supports got a reaaaally short lifespan and all our recorded information on the internet is only as durable as our civilisation is. - one of the main problems historians get after the invention of the printing press is that the amount of sources multiplies exponentially... so, where medieval and ancient historians lack documents to tell them what they need, modern and contemporary historians often know that the information is burried somewhere in some document that no one has had a good look at in centuries. There's soooo many millions of pages in thousands of archives, not enough historians to read even a fraction. Hence, new discoveries can be made from documents that have been sitting in dark rooms for ages. - Sapiens is a bad book containing unserious shitty information, badly presented and by a guy who doesnt know what he's talking about. Seriously, I couldnt stand to go through more than 1/3 of that book, it was such hot garbage.
As someone who had some basic courses in both history and mythology I think the line between what actually happened and what is myth/superstition/exaggeration is a lot less clear than historians want us to think. They do have an extremely hard job of determining what is fact which is why they can't do a very good job of it and they do often want us to believe that their judgement with limited proof is more accurate than it really is. And there is definitely this conception that historians are very competent so they must know what really happened even though they really just can't tell often despite being competent and knowledgeable.
@@darrenfleming7901 As someone with a degree in history and an interest in mythology, I cant but re-iterate what I wrote months ago: this is a view that is mostly produced by media representations of history, not at all an issue in history as a whole. A competent and honest historian (there are some with the title that obviously are neither) will tell you what they know with certainty and what they can only make educated guesses on. I will give you an example, though I must remain vague as it wouldnt be pertinent otherwise: in the study of the wars between the persian empire and the greek city states of the ionian coast and the isles, later mainland Greece, alot is known. Information such as the date of a conquest, the response by other city states or even alot of the politics involved can be easily read. How? Ancient Greeks wrote decisions they made down on stones that they erected in their city centre - both as proclamation and record of the decision having been made. Many of those stones were preserved through...well... being stones and were found since, and read. The information on them can be used. Obviously, when a city writes down how much they thank a king for his generous gift that definetely had no second thoughts, you need a historian with information on the whole period to detect when the gift was maybe a bribe or a means to secure loyalty of a system of mutual protection. Anyways, here you could see: the information is there, the interpretation is somewhat clear of what happened, the implications can and often are debated. Though obviously, such minutia arent discussed in mainstream media because most people would find them tedious and boring. Anyways, on the other hand of the spectrum, you got mythology involving gods, creation of the world etc. Let me draw the line for you: they're all not history. Some of them may reflect on a certain period... like stories of doom and gloom may stem from difficult times in reality, and one may interpret them as you could interpret 21st century movies or books and wonder what they imply for our mindset today. But they're not history. Oh and yes, this means that a documentary film about taking Homer's tales about Troy and using them as guide with some archaeological findings to retrace the "reality" of that war? That's all myth too. We havent found the mythological Troy, we have found a city... in fact, several cities... that are in the region Homer based his tale in. Could there have ever been a particularly nasty war between mainland Greeks and ionian Greeks of north-western Anatolia? Sure. Is it history to call it "Troy vs the Greeks"? No. Point me to where else you may struggle to find the line between myth and history, it's usually easier than it appears :P
@@narsil1984 I wasn't saying historians make claims without sufficient information, rather that there seems to be a general appeal to authority in society towards historians which makes people take whatever they interpret for granted and ignore all the caveats when it comes to educated guesses with limited information.
I don't like this idea of "we" when they talk about slave trade. "We" aren't responsible for it, and "we" didn't make money off it. We aren't responsible for our ancestors, and citizens aren't responsible for what their nation has done in the past. There's no point in feeling any guilt or shame for history.
By the same logic we aren't allowed to feel proud of our history, as we aren't responsible for it, and was something our nation did in the past. And still we live with the legacy of slavery, neo-colonialism, with third-world countries exploited of their natural resources that is extracted by western multinational corporations, and used in our technology, with little to no benefit to these mostly African countries. And if we are talking about it in the historic sense, our built environment, our western-centric education and many other parts of our society reflect the colonial mindset that had undoubtedly influenced our culture. We didn't directly enrich ourselves from slavery, but we should be understanding of the massive wealth that slavery and colonialism generated for the United Kingdom, and understand our place in this.
@@jameslansbury4373 Well we shouldn't feel proud of something our ancestors did, so yeah I guess you're right. As for western corporations, I'm all for killing every single CEO and other leader working for those organizations. Whats western centric education btw, and what's wrong with it? West is the source of science and civilization, so it makes sense that our education is west-centric.
@@thecreepero3921 Look it up yourself, ''Dutch'' Jews were among the earliest pioneers of american slavetrade, among with Spaniards and Brits. Plenty of accounts from people involved, Seymour Liedman, Vilhelm Jacobowsky, Marc Raphael Arnold witznitzer etc etc, It's not exactly kept secret in academics
the problem with places named / statues erected after slave traders is, they weren't done to acknowledge the slave trade, but to acknowledge the amazing benevolence the individuals had displayed in the community, back then the slave trade was seen as normal, it had been normal for thousands of years, long before the african american slave trade horrors (thanks america), so nobody knew life any different, of course we recognise it as wrong today but it wasn't abhorrent or malicious in their world, so we can't judge their character on it. so tearing down all these statures and changing these names is actually , in a weird, ironic sort of way, removing the recognition of human benevolence, and thats why people take issue with it. it's just another example of people trying to re-write history because they don't like the people.
We can judge it because those contributions were based on slavery. Like they said in the podcast you legit wouldn't have known or given a shit about any of this had you not known previously. A statue is there to commemorate someone, someone like Churchill is someone who can have a statue and still be understood to come from a different context / time. Because his significance goes beyond "uhhhhh they contributed money" as a historical figure. The reason you give a shit is because you care more about choosing a side and sticking with that for the sake of it. Nothing you said actually argues in favour of keeping the statue, it should be taken down and put into a museum.
That's not true...the protests are generally peaceful and sometimes they become violent, but that's not the intention of a protest when it starts. The violence only starts when a few people do crazy things and others join in, but that's not the majority of protests.
Wtf was lewis' rambling point? Slavery, segregation and racism is equivalent to changing the difficulty of a game? Think ones a bit more difficult to change than the other Lewis...
Possibly the most wrong this podcast has been so far. It continues to amaze me how easily people can be so misinformed. Of course, thoroughly enjoyed, will keep listening.
Pretty good takes on protesting/rioting boys. Something to consider is that even if you support a movement, you should of course disavow rioting against private citizens. Usually you can justify attacking police cars or police buildings ect, but you don't have to.
Some people live life day to day, week to week, etc. I live my life T-force podcast to T-force podcast. Keep it comin' lads
I live my life a quarter triforce podcast at a time
THE PENNYWACKERS ARE BACK BABY
Woah Pyrion is still reading Sapiens. He mentioned it like 4 years ago on the triforce and I read it based on that recommendation. Dude must read like a sentence a day
just an occasional toilet read
@@pyrionflax don't tell sips you read on the toilet, I'm sure that goes against his bathroom etiquette
@@MatthewLukeWarren Not at all, the toilet is a space off limits to outsiders and a bit of personal time reading is in harmony with that.
@@minor_edit good point
Sometimes you just lose interest in a book and then come back to it much later.
Where I live we had a group of people remove the head of a statue of a civil war hero who fought /against/ the south. A bunch of people got angry, saw a statue, assumed a bad old person, and then vandalized the statue of a guy who fought against slavery.
A perfect example of how dumb mobbing is
Would you give the name of the civil war hero so we can actually check the story out
The fact that both Sips and Flax acknowledge the legendary status of MF DOOM is just really fucking awesome to me idky
Theyre both hip hop heads
You forgot all caps, my dude 😉
26:00 Woaaahhh there Flax, sometime discovering old ways of doing things refine the current method.
That sniper rifle story. Lewis was definitely watching Forgotten Weapons videos on youtube, the story is exactly the same as the way Ian tells it on there
Pyrion: "there is no material benefit to knowing the past"
me as an archaeologist: uhh I'd like to disagree but you're right
At least you have a good conversation starter.
Debating if Thucydides was a real person is actually crazy, when there are lots of written documents with his name on them. They really underestimate old written documents. They were not written by a single crazy man but from different people in different parts of ancient greece, with actual proof and credibility.
Much like the Nazarene really
They barely did. You clearly didnt actually listen to the convo
In Chicago, you used to be able to pick up copies of the Onion in newspaper boxes throughout the city. It was extremely common to see people on the subway just reading the Onion. Good, simple times.
Lewis's experience with the Bristol's riots is like mine with Portland Oregon's riots didn't see anything, but you'd think they burned the whole city down according the national news.
I deal with empires every day in being a US university admissions specialist in international applications. Most of the countries of the world (not all but a lot) have educational systems they had installed when they were under the control of England, France, Portugal, and Russia. It may be largely unchanged or it may have evolved since whatever country gained independance but knowing which empire used to occupy a country gives you a baseline to understand where the transcript system of that nation comes from, if you are unfamiliar or don't see that country in the applicant pool very often.
46:14 You heard it here first Yogscast will from now on be refered to as Zazzle.
So I started replaying through another campaign in CK3 last night listening to sips' stream when it was first released and then he talks about his Pennywhacker escapades in this episode! How perfect!
I thank God everyday for Sips.
With Dark Souls, its tuned in a way that dying is actually a mechanic, you can get a greater number of souls from dying and you learn something each time
When you guys were talking about the re-naming of certain p[laces or removal of statues etc. I was unfortunately reminded of my Easter this year. Even with only 7 people gathering (5 of which are vaccinated, the other 2 of which have been as isolated as possible) the conversation touched on Plimouth Plantation in Massachussetts. Being from upstate NY I remember visiting Plimoth Plantation on a school trip or a family vacation or what have you, but people are reconsidering calling it a "plantation" because of the word's history with slavery. Fair enough. They want to change it to "Plimoth Patuxet" in reference to the Patuxet native people, without whom the original settlement would have surely perished or underwent extreme casualties. Fair enough, let them change the name, that makes sense. But during my Easter get together, my parents and aunt and uncles (all over 65 mind you) were in a tizzy about why they needed to change the name of such a historic location. My cousin, who is 48, and I, who am 25, just stayed on the outside of that conversation.
And before someone corrects me for spelling it "Plimoth", yes, the town is named "Plymoth" but the former plantation is referred to as "Plimoth" with an i for some reason. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the Pilgrims. Or if you'd prefer, the Pylgryms. XD
Lewis is severely understating the protest bill. It basically outlaws protest. Any protest that is found to be “annoying” can be ruled illegal and all protestors jailed for ten years. It’s dystopian and dangerous.
170th episode and I keep coming back.
I wonder what the 200th episode special will be like.
This is just Lewis narrating a forgotten weapons video.
TotalBiscuit's view on roguelites is still valid to this day
Pyrion has been reading Sapiens for like 4 years now lol
I can't recall how I found this podcast. Obviously i got here from the yogscast but beyond that i have no clue. But I'm glad I did find it
Good for you ☺️
i went to rewatch the yogpod for the umpteenth time then saw lewis’ dumb triangle face
The issue with changing names/removing statues is that if these acts are done by force by a (small) number of passionate individuals it’s not conducive to a democratic and therefore free society. If a pub changes their name because of how “bad” the name is on their own without being belligerently forced to by a mob, i have no problem with that.
If a council removes a statue because the people democratically decided that statue shouldn’t be there, that’s fine, if the actual people want this, then I have no problem allowing them to do it.
But if a mob of like a hundred (max) politcally active teenagers and young adults unilaterally decide to remove a statue themselves and then dump it in the harbor, wasting an exorbitant amount of money to then have that statue removed from the harbor, that’s where the issue begins.
You can’t force things to change to the way you want them to, no matter how righteous or just you think you are, you don’t do things without due process.
it can be seen as civil disobedience tho, and I don't think civil disobedience is inherently bad in all cases. But again if you do civil disobedience and the general public sympathizes with you (like the civil rights movement for example) then it is some form of democracy because you have popular support, but in the case of statues there doesn't seem to be that support so civil disobedience becomes inappropriate.
@@darrenfleming7901 thr majority did not agree eith civil disobedience in the civil rights area.
The community in Bristol was campaigning for years to remove that statue and the Council kept blocking it. It wasn't a "small group of passionate individuals" who wanted it taken down.
@@user-lh7pl2fu9c If by community you mean a small group of very vocal political activists then yes I wouldn’t have a hard time believing with you.
@@DunningofKruger that's not what I mean though
Onion began in Madison Wisconsin. I remember seeing it appear in Milwaukee newspaper boxes back in about 1992 or 93. Made every Thursday just a little more fun!
the way they describe battle brothers reminds me of Mordheim. 1 death can cost you all of your money and death can sometimes just not be avoided, and it takes forever to level the team up, and then you can have one bad fight and be completely ruined
Can anyone else remember how they started watching the Triforce podcast? Because I have no clue how or when I started.
I think i started when an animation was posted to the main channel. There was a backlog at that point that I had to get through.
Started from day 1, seem not long ago but its been over 5 years. Kinda hard to imagine its still going almost regularly for this long.
I got a notification for the first episode because I was already subscribed to the Chanel for the yogpod
"I've got nothing. Might as well give this podcast a shot" - Dec 2019
Been here since day 1, its been my podcast of choice
A kid i went to school with had his own rifle for competitive shooting it is like 5 feet long and cost him like 10,000 dollars
The intros just get better and better
Ahh, I do love this intro
Lewis clearly watched the Forgotten Weapons episode on the ai rifles :) didn't know Lewis was into that kind of videos
@12:20 Lewis discovers the beginning of the downfall of Twitter 😂😂😂😂
24:50 sounded like lewis was about to cry haha
Imagine comparing the Hong Kong protests where a mega state is arresting and killing people versus students moaning about not being able to break statues illegally
The Tory government are legit trying to ban protests you fool.
@@noob4ever22 Get some perspective
8:56
Honestly, that's something that could make a fascinating documentary or something how online some companies just fail only to be replaced by something else that does almost exactly the same thing but get more popular.
Myspace to Facebook
Vine to TikTok
AoL to Skype to Discord to maybe Zoom
I'm sure there are various dating sites that were similar to Tinder.
Etc
"Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story"
The onion is from Madison, Wisconsin.
For Pyrions point, if you're changing the name of a pub that means nothing, why would changing it make any difference? It could be just as easy to say that changing the name of something because of ideology is just as selfish as not wanting it to change.
In regards to Stoneshard and Pflax not liking the fact that you can't save until you get back to town, I'd like to point to games with hardcore mode. It's perfectly fine that not everybody enjoys playing hardcore games where you lose everything, but at the same time there is a market for people that enjoys the thrill of this kind of experience.
Stoneshard is the kind of game where every day is a new hardcore run, and if you can make it to the end of the day then you take a step towards permanent progress. I get it, not everybody is going to enjoy this. Personally I liked the challenge, I don't think it's fair to call it bad game design, just a niche target audience.
Stay safe lewlew and everyone in Bristol.
So, disregarding things that don't actually effect someone's life, it's self for people to not want change, but somehow not selfish for others to want change that would uproot someone else's life that has nothing to do with that change?
Sips has no right to talk about changing shit the man has done his absolute best to not change or try ANYTHING new for like a decade lol
Thats how I felt when the channel changed from yogpod to the triforce
Peter Pennywackers appreciation station members rise up!
The gun they are talking about is L96A1 and forgotten weapons does a thing about it
American Conservatism at least, is about preserving individual rights. For example, everyone slags off the second amendment every time there's a shooting. "Why do you need these kinds of weapons?" But they fail to point out the millions of defensive uses of firearms, which stop countless crimes. And for me at least, the right to defend oneself from harm is fundamental. "Criminals are still debating whether or not to obey the strict gun control measures." Absurd.
Bruh PFlax has no idea that Stoneshard has one of the more liberal saving policies for a traditional roguelike.
thats the issue tho roguelike fans are so damn adverse to change they haven't picked up on any design innovations for the past 20 years.
@@darrenfleming7901 I think there are plenty of innovative traditional roguelikes, they just don't get any attention because the 20 year old games that people are still working on take up so much of the conversation.
If we should judge the past on todays standards you should remove more or less everything thats more then 50 years old. Slavery, torture, and other things have been prevalent in any culture. We must accept, that people are the product of their time. Yes, there were a lot of slave traders in the 1600 hundreds, because that was the norm.... In 200 years there will probably be a debate about how horrible we were and someone like me will again argue, that you can`t judge them by today's standards and so it will continue forever....... Because people have a hard time in putting themselves in other people's places.
Yeah, and? A statue is there to commemorate, if all someone has done to earn that is slavery. It should be taken down, and put into a museum.
@@alphasword5541 why only statues? Buildings also commemorate people and cultures. The Great Wall of China, Pantheon in Greece, The Pyramides has also been involved in things that we will not accept today, including slavery/serfdom. You see? We can just go on forever, until there is northing left for furture generations.
In the future people might judge us for using trains and cars, that didn`t run on clean energy. Well, what can we do. We are a product of our time and have no choice or don`t know better. We are however trying to change that, just like people back then removrd serfdom/slavery in large parts of the world, especially the west.
@@g3523jaen Are you insipid?
Huh, I never knew PFlax had a mild case of weltschmerz.
I live outside of Charlotte in the US in a conservative small city and when the riots and protests began in 2020, I didn't see much of anything except videos from people protesting where cops were using methods to disperse the crowds. I've only ever been to one protest myself with a few friends when Ted Cruz came to my city. We held signs outside on the sidewalk in opposition. Many people applauded us and many others were very rude and some people even recorded us standing there silently and peacefully on the public sidewalk and posted it online calling us, at the time, misguided teenagers.
It was quite fun though. Would do it again.
I'd also like to say that the yogscast has always been known to be more left-wing and poke fun at religion. Simon and lewis have science backgrounds (lewis in chemistry and simon has a failed astrophysics degree) and many other yogs are not religious either. I'd say I've heard most if not all of them that I watch say something about religion being dumb at one point or another or making comments that clearly show their more left-wing takes. These things shouldn't come as a surprise to people who've been fans for very long. It's really not hard at all to notice they're all similar in political and religious views. I for one, living in a conservative Christian area, raised by fundamentalists, used the Yogscast as a younger teenager and now young adult specifically to escape being trapped in such a right wing religious environment. I heavily appreciate who they are and what they stand for.
Boba is bisexual and has a trans flag, ped has a trans flag, some friends of the Yogs are trans and nonbinary or racial minorities. Lewis, Simon, pyrion, sips, and many others are openly atheist and critical of religion and always have been online. It's really nothing new.
To see so many surprised and offended people in the comments of this particular video is astonishing. Yogs have made many more explicit statements on other social media and past videos. I dont even use Twitter, Reddit, Tiktok, or snapchat and I know of Simon's clapback at Notch for being transphobic. It's all in their videos and always has been.
They even explicitly state that they believe they've already driven off most of the people who disagree with them from viewing just by nature of being vocal about their views, not that it was intentional, but by the very nature of who they are.
It's also known that Bristol, London, Sweden, the Netherlands, and so on are more left-wing and nonreligious than other areas, so again, it really shouldn't be surprising that the yogs are more left-wing and non-religious.
i see lewis also watches Ian from forgotten weapons
One thing about this policing bill is that the public has the right to demonstrate in the public domain. When extinction rebellion was blocking roads as annoying as that might be it was their right to do so. Of cause as soon as you go into private land that's a problem. The protesters in Bristol had the right to protest on that land as soon as some set fires and attacked people they were in the wrong but only those few people who did that. Let's not criminalise a whole protest based on the actions of a few people.
You have the right to protest, you don't have the right to block traffic, neither do you have the right to knock someones head in or burn a building in protest.
I was waiting for you guys to speak on the protest and I couldn't agree more!
why do I feel like this is an old episode that got uploaded incorrectly. I swear to god I've listened to this entire thing already.
The Onion hails from Madison, Wisconsin! San Francisco... PFFFFT!
2 years late but I'm catching up 😂
I respect pyrion a lot but what he said about conservatism is the most crazy generalization I have ever heard. I’m a libertarian with some conservative values. We want things to change but with our freedoms in tact. the Republican Party abolished slavery in the US and they are very conservative. I promise we like progression just not in meaningless ways
Also speaking about statues they represent history and if you dismiss history you are bound to repeat it. Even if we don’t know exactly every statue they need to stand to represent where we’ve come from
Yeah the way phrases it is as if conservatism is bad is just bad. I understand innovation and change can be good, but it can also just be bad. For example: cancel culture. And the same argument could be said about, people who want statues to be pulled down and places to be renamed. This has never harmed you, so why do you care about it.
I also don't see how he can claim that wanting things to stay the same is any more selfish than demanding they change, both are self serving positions. What matters is how and why.
@@nonypla8882 couldn't agree more.
The parties switched the republican party hasn't been the party of Lincoln for a very long time now.
Do you think it's just a coincidence that the same people who wave around confederate flags also vote republican?
Had to be early for the Pennywackers 😂
What about hardcore modes for games like minecraft or poe
man, hard same on stone shard. there's stuff i liked but i couldn't go back after just straight up losing an hour and a half of my life. fuck that noise.
The problem I have with changing names because of slavery is that we as a people have had slaves for what 3986 of the 4000 years of recorded history and probably before that.(Mauritania is the world's last country to abolish slavery in 2007) It had been a common practice these people are being wronged for something that was common place in their time, we are more enlightened but we shouldn't hold them to the same light as people in our own generation. Think of 100 years from now we go to 100% vegetarian then in 50 years after that they want to change the names of all the places that were meat eaters, "churchill will a savage carnivore we can't have anything named after him". Not exactly the same but along the same lines why judge him for eating meat if it was common practice since we can remember. If that is the case don't we also need to rename rome, cairo, athens, etc they all had slaves and shouldn't we tear down the colosseum since it was built by slaves and was used to torture slaves? Just if we don't stand up to this injustice where/when will it stop.
Well said flax *claps*
Note: I was apart of those extinction rebellion protests in london a few years back, and glued my hands to parliament square n barricaded the roads.. There were a lot of folk who hated us.. but truly, there is not a lot being done at all w/ climate change. There were loads of teachers, and scientists with us, I'm an nhs nurse, and 'twas a great peaceful demonstration ^-^
Darn those selfish people, wanting something to stay the same. Why can't they be more like us selfish people, who want it to change?
Thucydides (I think its more like thu kid diddies) is 10 times better than Herodotus. Herodotus is just a fiction author like Homer who is also really valuable as a source in history but Herodotus didn't consider himself a 'historian/historiographer' and Thucydides really established Historiography. Thucydides is brilliant and really relevant today which is marvellous considering how old it is.
www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/29/what-thucydides-knew-about-the-us-today/
On Scrutiny in Game design :
1. Twitch chat defends most likely because of sympathy for the developer. Most of Twitch chat probably has some connection to developers, knows the stresses and impossibilities of being a developer, and will defend them out of pure reflex.
2. Console gamers have been through a lot of terrible games from big budget companies, with horrible practices, botched releases, bugs and glitches. Its like the developers of these dont care about the product because they know it will sell anyway. Console gamers have forgot what a good game IS, so go easy on games they see at least working.
On making games Harder :
1. Souls Experience - Dark Souls was popular, Dark Souls was unforgivably hard. Therefore, all games must be made unforgivably hard to be popular like Dark Souls.
2. All games must be balanced. I can make this element easier or harder to balance with the other elements. But if I make it easier, thats going to be too spoonfed and babyish. Lets make it harder. (Ped describing Barry's Blebs mentality when designing Race for the Wool maps).
3. The Game Designers know their own game, but dont Test it with people who dont. So they have no idea how hard it is.
PFlax after around 42:00 is the energy I need to see more in life
Racism is a strange thing because you'd imagine that racism had existed for an exceptionally long time. The concept of 'race' was not realised until the early to mid 19th century, due to an improved understanding of evolution, and it is known as 19th Century Anglo-Saxonism, which is actually based on the belief that Anglo-Saxons are superior to the Celtic peoples inhabiting the Celtic fringes of Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Ireland.
The British press in the 19th century often published satirical cartoons depicting Irishmen as apes (not as evolved), and this attitude was also often attributed to the other Celtic peoples in the press.
You don't need to know what 'race' is to be racist. People have been xenophobic for thousands to millions of years, it's in our DNA. The same way you would now still be cautious with strangers and are more likely to trust people who are in your general group of people i.e. friends of friends and the likes. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, you just have to keep it in mind
People were always racist/xenophobic. The ancient Greeks didn't even see Persians or Germanic/Gaelic people as human. There are written examples of debates within Greek society with people debating over if the "blacks" (mainly regarding Ethiopians) and "blondes" (Germanic peoples) are even the same thing as "whites" (Greeks). It is very foolish to think racism is a new thing.
@@JohnDoe-lw1si My point was that in the 19th Century, improved understanding of evolution led to the coining of terms like 'race'. Yes, discrimination has always been present across civilisations over the course of human history, but race as a term and as a concept was derived from 19th century ideas of evolution. Evolution was used in more modern times to justify racism, despite the idea of race actually being total nonsense. Race implied that there were fundamental differences between DNA of people from different parts of the world, which, of course, is not true. Historically, the term 'race' was not used before the 19th Century, where it began to see rampant usage to describe even people from, say, Yorkshire, or Lancashire. However this quickly developed into a tool to discriminate minorities from different countries; in Britain, mostly Irish people and other Celts; in America, mostly African people. In countries like Germany and France, the countries would use the newly developed concepts of race to discriminate each other.
@@selsig_dwp Yes, but people have always done it. They didn't use the term "race" because often they didn't even see others as humans. The 19th did give rise to many new terms but the framework was always there. People have always found ways and terms to use to other people. The best example is how civilizations like China, Japan, the Greeks, or Romans called people living outside their zone of control. They would name them things like barbarians (which basically means people who go bar bar because the Greeks didn't even think they had a proper language because they couldn't understand them) or savages (literally wild men which are different from civilized men). China believed they were the only true civilization for centuries despite their neighbors having roughly the same level of tech and society.
I want milk!😂
Jesus was 100% a real person who had followers when he was alive. Whether he could walk on water is a different matter but he definitely was a real guy
We absolutely do not 100% know that actually. There is broad scholarly agreement that sure probably some dude named Jesus probably existed in that region and rough time period, but essentially every meaningful claim about that figure is in dispute including whether or not he had followers.
Agreed 😩
@@nephatrine what I've heard recently was that the actual Jesus that everyone has come to know might have been multiple people that got rolled up into one sort of figure for people to follow the teachings of. There was a few discrepancies with the whole timeline of the Bible, some of the people couldn't have possibly known everything they knew about Jesus
@@nephatrine There aren't any reputable scholars who don't believe that Jesus existed. I think we can feel pretty confident in saying that he was definitely a real person from that time period.
@@knitterknerd there are a few ‘scholars’ who dispute Jesus was real, but their expertise is nothing to do with middle eastern history from 2000 years ago. Historians who specialise in that era and locations, regardless of their religious or philosophical beliefs, generally all believe Jesus lived
"Fairytales"
I mean... you can have your opinion without being condescending about it. 🤷♂️
Just listening to Lewis and Pflax’s views on Public Disorder in both the UK and USA made me cringe
Something else to consider with ancient history is that it had a different purpose. They didn't have the same compulsion to record everything accurately just for the sake of records. They were usually trying to make a point, and they were fully expected to change a few details to make that point. Today, we want to know exactly what happened, but people didn't intend to give us completely accurate details because they just didn't care.
I live in a fairly medium-sized city. There was a protest here shortly after George Floyd's death. They mostly stayed in one area, but at one point, enough of them were crossing a road at once (maybe jaywalking?) that the police considered it to be blocking traffic. Not that it was terribly busy, or that it would have been difficult to drive around using a nearby road, but it was an excuse. They technically announced that they were going to use pepper spray, but they announced it as they were using it, not before. Of course, that's not how it was reported, but a friend of mine had video of parts of it, and other people had more of it recorded.
It was also reported that a police vehicle was attacked. and that a business was vandalized by protesters. The "attack" was a thrown water bottle that bounced off as harmlessly as you'd expect. The business owner shared security footage that showed how the vandalism happened. Men with white supremacy tattoos walked up to the windows with a brick, obviously hoping to frame the protestors. Protestors tried to dissuade them, but they ended up walking away, rather than resorting to violence. A white supremacist then threw the brick, which broke the window. Most people I know still believe what was originally reported, and that the protestors had the intent to be violent from the beginning.
We got a real trio of game journalists here. Some people like hard games, it's not bad design 😒
Yeah it's a design choice that maybe they don't personally like or agree with, but calling it "bad design" is I think a bit too far.
Did these guys forget that COVID is still a thing?
Who decides the background colour of the video and could I request hot pink? D1
x.com was paypal before paypal was paypal. thats how elon became who he is
Thookidides
54:49
What did the Romans ever do for us?
I am an conservative, I am old-fashioned, I am authoritian but I do believe in the right to political demonstrations. And I DESPISE the media for misrepresenting them with the "so-and-so-many-police-injuries" -bullshit. Riots are bad, but when one happens, the one's in power should really sit down and think "Why did this happen?".
A lot happen because people hijack movements and want an excuse to steal shit
Check out this guy SandRhoman his channel is History and mostly military and middle ages or early modern but this video is about the theory of historiography. ua-cam.com/video/FVm3eNMmCMY/v-deo.html
It seems history has entered it's post-post-modern era.
Oh please be good
Very disappointed at Pyrion blaming the police.
wait what lewis is 37
Pyrion is so wholesome
Whenever you guys talk about history, I gotta cringe... ancient historians arent just some jokers that we can happily ignore and comparing them to stuff in the bible is a bit ludicrous. Apples and oranges. Dont wanna go into a religious argument here, but what is known of the bible, in a nutshell, is that yeah, it's a collection of authors whose texts have been compiled, picked and chosen over hundreds of years after their time of writing. The contents are not historical in any way, even if alot has made its way into culture to such a degree that people think it is.
As for the subject itself, old accounts... you guys treat the subject in such a binary way, as if people were taking it all as complete truth and we're just learning today that it's all bollocks. It is and has been the job of historians to read these old sources, compare them with each other, use what material evidence we got and the best of their educated judgement with the known realities of the time to take what truth we can. You mention Herodot and numbers of soldiers in battles: he claims the army of king Xerxes was millions in numbers... obviously, that cant be true. It's been calculated that this would mean the first soldier arrived at the battle with the greeks at the Thermopyles while the last persian wouldnt have left the capital (width/length of road). However, we know that Herodot wrote a generation after the battle and got his information from soldiers of the battle. Numbers also had a different meaning back then, where a word like "millions" could just be used to describe an "incredibly large amount of", as neither him nor his sources probably got a good opportunity to count them all. So yeah, the exact numbers of soldiers are guesses by historians at best. BUT, this doesnt mean Herodot's text is all useless, nor that we have no idea what really happened. We still know that the battle occured and we know plenty of specific pieces of information about it. Ancient historians dont have an easy task, separating real info from vague stuff and uncertainties... but these texts arent all either perfectly accurate truth or rubbish.
A few short things:
- historians in the future may also have a hard time, as we record alot of stuff on supports that wont last long. Most digital supports got a reaaaally short lifespan and all our recorded information on the internet is only as durable as our civilisation is.
- one of the main problems historians get after the invention of the printing press is that the amount of sources multiplies exponentially... so, where medieval and ancient historians lack documents to tell them what they need, modern and contemporary historians often know that the information is burried somewhere in some document that no one has had a good look at in centuries. There's soooo many millions of pages in thousands of archives, not enough historians to read even a fraction. Hence, new discoveries can be made from documents that have been sitting in dark rooms for ages.
- Sapiens is a bad book containing unserious shitty information, badly presented and by a guy who doesnt know what he's talking about. Seriously, I couldnt stand to go through more than 1/3 of that book, it was such hot garbage.
As someone who had some basic courses in both history and mythology I think the line between what actually happened and what is myth/superstition/exaggeration is a lot less clear than historians want us to think. They do have an extremely hard job of determining what is fact which is why they can't do a very good job of it and they do often want us to believe that their judgement with limited proof is more accurate than it really is. And there is definitely this conception that historians are very competent so they must know what really happened even though they really just can't tell often despite being competent and knowledgeable.
@@darrenfleming7901 As someone with a degree in history and an interest in mythology, I cant but re-iterate what I wrote months ago: this is a view that is mostly produced by media representations of history, not at all an issue in history as a whole. A competent and honest historian (there are some with the title that obviously are neither) will tell you what they know with certainty and what they can only make educated guesses on.
I will give you an example, though I must remain vague as it wouldnt be pertinent otherwise: in the study of the wars between the persian empire and the greek city states of the ionian coast and the isles, later mainland Greece, alot is known. Information such as the date of a conquest, the response by other city states or even alot of the politics involved can be easily read. How? Ancient Greeks wrote decisions they made down on stones that they erected in their city centre - both as proclamation and record of the decision having been made. Many of those stones were preserved through...well... being stones and were found since, and read. The information on them can be used. Obviously, when a city writes down how much they thank a king for his generous gift that definetely had no second thoughts, you need a historian with information on the whole period to detect when the gift was maybe a bribe or a means to secure loyalty of a system of mutual protection.
Anyways, here you could see: the information is there, the interpretation is somewhat clear of what happened, the implications can and often are debated.
Though obviously, such minutia arent discussed in mainstream media because most people would find them tedious and boring.
Anyways, on the other hand of the spectrum, you got mythology involving gods, creation of the world etc. Let me draw the line for you: they're all not history. Some of them may reflect on a certain period... like stories of doom and gloom may stem from difficult times in reality, and one may interpret them as you could interpret 21st century movies or books and wonder what they imply for our mindset today. But they're not history.
Oh and yes, this means that a documentary film about taking Homer's tales about Troy and using them as guide with some archaeological findings to retrace the "reality" of that war? That's all myth too. We havent found the mythological Troy, we have found a city... in fact, several cities... that are in the region Homer based his tale in. Could there have ever been a particularly nasty war between mainland Greeks and ionian Greeks of north-western Anatolia? Sure. Is it history to call it "Troy vs the Greeks"? No.
Point me to where else you may struggle to find the line between myth and history, it's usually easier than it appears :P
@@narsil1984 I wasn't saying historians make claims without sufficient information, rather that there seems to be a general appeal to authority in society towards historians which makes people take whatever they interpret for granted and ignore all the caveats when it comes to educated guesses with limited information.
Lewis mocking the entire chirstian religion this episode is offputing
what the hecc, man?
The yogscast have always been pretty vocal about poking fun at religion. It's nothing new...
i do want to say with us riots police injuries are usually the guys were sent to the hospital and a few are in a medical coma
I don't like this idea of "we" when they talk about slave trade. "We" aren't responsible for it, and "we" didn't make money off it. We aren't responsible for our ancestors, and citizens aren't responsible for what their nation has done in the past. There's no point in feeling any guilt or shame for history.
By the same logic we aren't allowed to feel proud of our history, as we aren't responsible for it, and was something our nation did in the past. And still we live with the legacy of slavery, neo-colonialism, with third-world countries exploited of their natural resources that is extracted by western multinational corporations, and used in our technology, with little to no benefit to these mostly African countries. And if we are talking about it in the historic sense, our built environment, our western-centric education and many other parts of our society reflect the colonial mindset that had undoubtedly influenced our culture. We didn't directly enrich ourselves from slavery, but we should be understanding of the massive wealth that slavery and colonialism generated for the United Kingdom, and understand our place in this.
@@jameslansbury4373 Well we shouldn't feel proud of something our ancestors did, so yeah I guess you're right.
As for western corporations, I'm all for killing every single CEO and other leader working for those organizations.
Whats western centric education btw, and what's wrong with it? West is the source of science and civilization, so it makes sense that our education is west-centric.
@@thecreepero3921 Not trying to be that guy, but slave ship owners were to a majority Jewish
@@harryh4rp4n31 I assume you have a source for that.
@@thecreepero3921 Look it up yourself, ''Dutch'' Jews were among the earliest pioneers of american slavetrade, among with Spaniards and Brits. Plenty of accounts from people involved, Seymour Liedman, Vilhelm Jacobowsky, Marc Raphael Arnold witznitzer etc etc, It's not exactly kept secret in academics
the problem with places named / statues erected after slave traders is, they weren't done to acknowledge the slave trade, but to acknowledge the amazing benevolence the individuals had displayed in the community, back then the slave trade was seen as normal, it had been normal for thousands of years, long before the african american slave trade horrors (thanks america), so nobody knew life any different, of course we recognise it as wrong today but it wasn't abhorrent or malicious in their world, so we can't judge their character on it. so tearing down all these statures and changing these names is actually , in a weird, ironic sort of way, removing the recognition of human benevolence, and thats why people take issue with it.
it's just another example of people trying to re-write history because they don't like the people.
We can judge it because those contributions were based on slavery. Like they said in the podcast you legit wouldn't have known or given a shit about any of this had you not known previously.
A statue is there to commemorate someone, someone like Churchill is someone who can have a statue and still be understood to come from a different context / time. Because his significance goes beyond "uhhhhh they contributed money" as a historical figure.
The reason you give a shit is because you care more about choosing a side and sticking with that for the sake of it. Nothing you said actually argues in favour of keeping the statue, it should be taken down and put into a museum.
It's the opposite in america, the protests are violent but the media paints them as peaceful
Or yknow, it varies.
That's not true...the protests are generally peaceful and sometimes they become violent, but that's not the intention of a protest when it starts. The violence only starts when a few people do crazy things and others join in, but that's not the majority of protests.
Wtf was lewis' rambling point? Slavery, segregation and racism is equivalent to changing the difficulty of a game? Think ones a bit more difficult to change than the other Lewis...
Possibly the most wrong this podcast has been so far. It continues to amaze me how easily people can be so misinformed.
Of course, thoroughly enjoyed, will keep listening.
Oh, regarding what?
Pretty good takes on protesting/rioting boys. Something to consider is that even if you support a movement, you should of course disavow rioting against private citizens. Usually you can justify attacking police cars or police buildings ect, but you don't have to.
Two and a half dads angry they cant get gud at games. Smh
Lewis ACAB means ACAB, the uk too buddy
Simplistic