JRB - Lots of testing you're doing... youve shown that Bob's Bulk 223s are like any of the bulk FMJs - good for one MOA - 1 1/2 MOA. Great for the run and gun AR games out there, or for blasting, plinking, or defense. NIce work..!!
Took the Johnny's Reloading Bench plunge on Patreon! WoooHooo! Make that 6 new supporters today! Great videos! Hoping to get my first press soon and these vid's have been invaluable! Thanks again.
Keep up the good work. If you try Vihtavuori powders be careful.They are not temperature stabilized. If you are running a max load and shooting on a hot day you could be overpressure. If you also leave a live round in a hot chamber it could be overpressure while waiting a few minutes to fire. This powder is expensive, but accurate. Be safe and please don't blow off your face. I love N-140 for my 80gr Nosler's in my AR. They are loaded longer then mag length.
Love your vids... thanks! Have you ever loaded up say 25 loads "exactly the same" and shot 5 5-shot groups to just see how shooter, conditions, whatever may impact groups. This would give you a real view of how valid a single 5 shot group is for representing a test. Just a random thought from a fellow reloaded ...
I own AR-15 with 18" SPR profile Lothar Walther barrel with twist 1-8" and Wylde chamber. The barrel is made from Special Rifle Steel and the gas system is rifle lenght. I have made lot of testing with different bullets and different Hodgdon powders. Vihtavuori powder is cheaper here since I live in Finland. Foreign made powders are around double the price. I haven´t tested VV powders extensively yet. My go to load for 52-55gr bullets is 25.0 gr N135. My tests have shown that N140 works very well for heavier bullets like 69 gr SMKs and NCCs. Hornadys 75 gr BTHP is fine also with N140. 68 gr Hornadys have not worked equally well no matter the powder used. They are decent but not as good. Of the lighter bullets 52gr NCC and SMK works as well as their heavier big brothers. 55 gr Hornady FMJBT is not as good - around 1-2 MOA. However the 55 Hornady SP seems to be closer to 1 MOA all the time. Hornady 40 gr is the lightest I have tested. I tried three loads with H335. Accuracy was 1-2.2 MOA. Nosler 50gr BT was very accurate: 0,75-1 MOA.
I had this happen to my .308 die when doing compressed loads with varget and barnes. They will warranty it. I called and they were great. Bought an extra and they shipped on their dime with warranty one.
Hello, yes super these tests after finding a charge of powder that gives the best grouping, we play on the sinking bullets to always improve but watch out for pressure as it increases so to see depending on the powder load and Tables and to better have the device to measure FPS. Yours.
I think your test are actually coming out well. Two things come up in my thinking. 1. Light FMJ bullet not stabilizing at 100 yards. Maybe do a 100 and 200 yard test. 2nd. The FMJ in my testing has always been a difficult bullet for accuracy because it is front heavy and inconsistent due to how they are manufactured in bulk. A match hollow point bullet is made to lighten the front thus better balancing the consistency of center of gravity and center or inertia which give you your overall spin and stabilization. I think your barrel twist and bullet weight are fighting you a bit.
One other thing tou may try is weighing each bullet and cases into groups of 5 to better balance out whats happening. You may already be doing that but didnt see itin video. I still think yourob a good track but sometimes bulk bullets are just bulk bullets.
Ever thought about trying this seating depth test with VLD's or a similar bullet (eld, rdf, etc) with a larger caliber (eg 308)? That might be interesting
Really look forward to the Vihtavuori powders. My pick would be N135 and N140. Although I'm sure N133 would also work well. The Vihtavuori reloading app on my iPhone has a good selection of reloading data for 55 grain bullets for all 3 of the Vihtavuori powders you have. If you need any of that data just let me know. Upper end charges of Varget should also shoot well I'm guessing. Thanks for the vids.
Have you tried all 42 million combinations of powder, bullet, brass, primer, crimp, temperature, chamber shape, barrel length, with or without chrono, with or without bipod, with or without coffee in the morning? Only then will your tests be valid.
I am going to be a little critical about your testing protocol: Have you ever run a complete test WITHOUT changing another variable (or more) within the test? I don't recall one, but I haven't been watching a long times, so........ This, IMHO, is bad form. If you want to see if the suppressor or the chrono somehow makes a difference, do it later after all data is collected and, if you find something, then re-run the test. Making changes in midstream and, worse yet, not noting it on the targets, makes your rationalizations in trying to pull some conclusions from the test worthless. I suggest you quit doing that. One other personal thing for me, I really don't like the use of the bipod; it puts more shooter variation into the tests. If you were firing huge numbers of rounds it would minimize the variation introduced but not when you are only shooting 5 or even 10 rounds. Just my opinion which is worth every cent you paid for it LOL!
When you get a micrometer and you see with your own eyes what the difference is between 2.215 & 2.260. Then you wonder is that really going to make a difference. Then you start measuring any and everything you see
JRB, if you do the Viht powder, I would use N133 24.5gr with 55gr bullet loaded to 2.250", they shoot great in my rifles from the short 14.5" barrels up to my 20" that I use for my DCM matches. They run between 3150 on 14.5" barrel up to 3200 on my 20" N135 is also a great powder for the medium to heavy bullets, I use 25.5-25.9 of it depending on which 55gr bullet I'm using.
Like with all UA-cam, enjoy the video,, It's a video. it doesn't have to be evaluated. These are your results, with the suppressor on, with it off. same as the magneto coronagraph. whether you shoot from a machine rest all bolted down. or off hand unsupported @200 yards. Dave.
I see you reloading 223 with powders like H335, Varget, AR comp, and a couple/few others but didn't see you using one of what seems like a popular powder for the 223 being Winchester 748 powder. Is there a particular reason why you dont use it, or maybe you use it but just for whatever reasons didn't do a video on it ... or could be it just didn't come up in my search results for whatever reason :o)
Curious did or have you ever tested the theory that a fast twist 223 1:7 or 1:6.5 would cause a lighter bullet made for 1:12 twist apart in flight? say 35 or 40 gr. In the spirit of blowing your face off.!
FWIW I think the weak element in your tests is the bullet. If the bullet is average, you will not get 1/2 MOA groups by varying powders, primers, OAL etc. These bullets are ok for AR plinking though.
Is your barrel a 223 Wylde chambering? If so, that could explain the results you got. The Wylde having a longer freebore and more angle on the rifling would be affected less by cartridge OAL. I can vary my 223 Wylde by .050" and it has no effect on accuracy. Just a thought.
MrPaco1013 I agree, but I can tell you personally N140 shoots this bullet fantastic. N140 IMO is a close Alternative to Varget, but a tad more consistent for me. I haven't tested the N133 or N135 but N140 is working great with Bobs' bullets.
Okay, so this vid is 4 yrs old at the time of this comment. Did anyone notice the change in SD with the change in COAL? Would this be a way to "tune" SD for a for a specific load? Will it effect group size? Just wondering.
I'm looking forward to seeing the VihtaVouri powder. However, if you're going to test expensive powder then why not put a good bullet on top of it. If I'm investing in a .08 cent bullet I'm not going to put the most expensive powder behind it. My luck it would be the only powder that makes it shoot good, then I'm not really saving money trying to reload in bulk.
1976kingdom reloading already saves money, and even if you find it does shoot best with the Viht powder, you can make ammo that outshoots ANY factory FMJ loading available :) some folks hunt for pelts and need ammo like that so they don't destroy the game animal!
you have had trouble out of a couple of those seating dies now havent you? Those are expensive and that is the die that takes the least amount of pressure out of a set. unless you are doing a bunch of compressed loads. lead and copper should not harm steel but that sucks that you have had trouble with them
I had a pretty decent view. It didn't get totally dark here. Like...you would never have needed headlights. But it was still pretty neat. What about you?
Sorry I'm late with this one, folks! Stupid mistake on my part. Enjoy staring at the sun today!
JRB - Lots of testing you're doing... youve shown that Bob's Bulk 223s are like any of the bulk FMJs - good for one MOA - 1 1/2 MOA. Great for the run and gun AR games out there, or for blasting, plinking, or defense. NIce work..!!
Took the Johnny's Reloading Bench plunge on Patreon! WoooHooo! Make that 6 new supporters today! Great videos! Hoping to get my first press soon and these vid's have been invaluable! Thanks again.
Thanks for the support, brother. It means a lot!
Keep up the good work. If you try Vihtavuori powders be careful.They are not temperature stabilized. If you are running a max load and shooting on a hot day you could be overpressure. If you also leave a live round in a hot chamber it could be overpressure while waiting a few minutes to fire. This powder is expensive, but accurate. Be safe and please don't blow off your face. I love N-140 for my 80gr Nosler's in my AR. They are loaded longer then mag length.
Love your vids... thanks! Have you ever loaded up say 25 loads "exactly the same" and shot 5 5-shot groups to just see how shooter, conditions, whatever may impact groups. This would give you a real view of how valid a single 5 shot group is for representing a test. Just a random thought from a fellow reloaded ...
looking forward to VV powders, always wondered how they would preform.
Keep the videos coming, best month of UA-cam ever.
I own AR-15 with 18" SPR profile Lothar Walther barrel with twist 1-8" and Wylde chamber. The barrel is made from Special Rifle Steel and the gas system is rifle lenght. I have made lot of testing with different bullets and different Hodgdon powders. Vihtavuori powder is cheaper here since I live in Finland. Foreign made powders are around double the price. I haven´t tested VV powders extensively yet. My go to load for 52-55gr bullets is 25.0 gr N135. My tests have shown that N140 works very well for heavier bullets like 69 gr SMKs and NCCs. Hornadys 75 gr BTHP is fine also with N140. 68 gr Hornadys have not worked equally well no matter the powder used. They are decent but not as good. Of the lighter bullets 52gr NCC and SMK works as well as their heavier big brothers. 55 gr Hornady FMJBT is not as good - around 1-2 MOA. However the 55 Hornady SP seems to be closer to 1 MOA all the time. Hornady 40 gr is the lightest I have tested. I tried three loads with H335. Accuracy was 1-2.2 MOA. Nosler 50gr BT was very accurate: 0,75-1 MOA.
I had this happen to my .308 die when doing compressed loads with varget and barnes. They will warranty it. I called and they were great. Bought an extra and they shipped on their dime with warranty one.
Thank you. You are like a god to a bobs bullet reloader. Thanks
Hello, yes super these tests after finding a charge of powder that gives the best grouping, we play on the sinking bullets to always improve but watch out for pressure as it increases so to see depending on the powder load and Tables and to better have the device to measure FPS. Yours.
been waiting on this test all day :D
I think your test are actually coming out well. Two things come up in my thinking. 1. Light FMJ bullet not stabilizing at 100 yards. Maybe do a 100 and 200 yard test. 2nd. The FMJ in my testing has always been a difficult bullet for accuracy because it is front heavy and inconsistent due to how they are manufactured in bulk. A match hollow point bullet is made to lighten the front thus better balancing the consistency of center of gravity and center or inertia which give you your overall spin and stabilization. I think your barrel twist and bullet weight are fighting you a bit.
One other thing tou may try is weighing each bullet and cases into groups of 5 to better balance out whats happening. You may already be doing that but didnt see itin video. I still think yourob a good track but sometimes bulk bullets are just bulk bullets.
No Blackout video on eclipse day? For shame!
bdubs1010 Ouch! Too FUNNY!
Ever thought about trying this seating depth test with VLD's or a similar bullet (eld, rdf, etc) with a larger caliber (eg 308)? That might be interesting
Really look forward to the Vihtavuori powders. My pick would be N135 and N140. Although I'm sure N133 would also work well.
The Vihtavuori reloading app on my iPhone has a good selection of reloading data for 55 grain bullets for all 3 of the Vihtavuori powders you have. If you need any of that data just let me know.
Upper end charges of Varget should also shoot well I'm guessing.
Thanks for the vids.
You changed brass lc is ussually less volume so charges need to be lighter in general
Does the suppressor and chronograph throw off your barrel harmonics any? Is it measurable?
Have you tried all 42 million combinations of powder, bullet, brass, primer, crimp, temperature, chamber shape, barrel length, with or without chrono, with or without bipod, with or without coffee in the morning? Only then will your tests be valid.
Would like see compressed vs non compressed.. Keep up the great work!
I am going to be a little critical about your testing protocol: Have you ever run a complete test WITHOUT changing another variable (or more) within the test? I don't recall one, but I haven't been watching a long times, so........ This, IMHO, is bad form. If you want to see if the suppressor or the chrono somehow makes a difference, do it later after all data is collected and, if you find something, then re-run the test. Making changes in midstream and, worse yet, not noting it on the targets, makes your rationalizations in trying to pull some conclusions from the test worthless. I suggest you quit doing that. One other personal thing for me, I really don't like the use of the bipod; it puts more shooter variation into the tests. If you were firing huge numbers of rounds it would minimize the variation introduced but not when you are only shooting 5 or even 10 rounds. Just my opinion which is worth every cent you paid for it LOL!
When you get a micrometer and you see with your own eyes what the difference is between 2.215 & 2.260. Then you wonder is that really going to make a difference. Then you start measuring any and everything you see
looking forward to tomorrow's video
once you find the most accurate powder, primer, crimp, bullet will you combine those into a cartridge for extreme accuracy?
As far as rounds hitting your writting, I use a green sharpie when I write on one.
JRB, if you do the Viht powder, I would use N133 24.5gr with 55gr bullet loaded to 2.250", they shoot great in my rifles from the short 14.5" barrels up to my 20" that I use for my DCM matches. They run between 3150 on 14.5" barrel up to 3200 on my 20"
N135 is also a great powder for the medium to heavy bullets, I use 25.5-25.9 of it depending on which 55gr bullet I'm using.
Like with all UA-cam, enjoy the video,, It's a video. it doesn't have to be evaluated. These are your results, with the suppressor on, with it off. same as the magneto coronagraph. whether you shoot from a machine rest all bolted down. or off hand unsupported @200 yards. Dave.
I see you reloading 223 with powders like H335, Varget, AR comp, and a couple/few others but didn't see you using one of what seems like a popular powder for the 223 being Winchester 748 powder. Is there a particular reason why you dont use it, or maybe you use it but just for whatever reasons didn't do a video on it ... or could be it just didn't come up in my search results for whatever reason :o)
Curious did or have you ever tested the theory that a fast twist 223 1:7 or 1:6.5 would cause a lighter bullet made for 1:12 twist apart in flight? say 35 or 40 gr. In the spirit of blowing your face off.!
Have you checked to make certain your optic mount and optic is not loose? Just seams those groups should be tighter with your set up
Good Video, it seems OAL changes do little in ARs
FWIW I think the weak element in your tests is the bullet. If the bullet is average, you will not get 1/2 MOA groups by varying powders, primers, OAL etc. These bullets are ok for AR plinking though.
2.235 drop a 10th of a grain or 2. horizontal is good drpping the charge a bit should help with the vertical.
Good stuff!
Is your barrel a 223 Wylde chambering? If so, that could explain the results you got. The Wylde having a longer freebore and more angle on the rifling would be affected less by cartridge OAL. I can vary my 223 Wylde by .050" and it has no effect on accuracy. Just a thought.
According to the Hornady manual N140 works best with heavier bullets but they have load data for all three at 55gr. I would go with N133 and N135.
MrPaco1013
I agree, but I can tell you personally N140 shoots this bullet fantastic. N140 IMO is a close Alternative to Varget, but a tad more consistent for me. I haven't tested the N133 or N135 but N140 is working great with Bobs' bullets.
T Hutch
That's good to know I just wish I could get my hands on some. I may have to brake down and order it on line. Hate those hazmat fees.
Okay, so this vid is 4 yrs old at the time of this comment. Did anyone notice the change in SD with the change in COAL? Would this be a way to "tune" SD for a for a specific load? Will it effect group size? Just wondering.
25grn Varget, under a Bobs' @ "2.20 OAL
I'm looking forward to seeing the VihtaVouri powder. However, if you're going to test expensive powder then why not put a good bullet on top of it. If I'm investing in a .08 cent bullet I'm not going to put the most expensive powder behind it. My luck it would be the only powder that makes it shoot good, then I'm not really saving money trying to reload in bulk.
1976kingdom reloading already saves money, and even if you find it does shoot best with the Viht powder, you can make ammo that outshoots ANY factory FMJ loading available :) some folks hunt for pelts and need ammo like that so they don't destroy the game animal!
1976kingdom
In my experience Varget shoots this bullet very well (sub MOA) if looking for a cheaper alternative.
1976kingdom
The Nosler CC's maybe
Shots always seem right of the target. Just an observation.
HCNFAN he uses his right eye with his right trigger finger!( I noticed that too)
Lol
So the set depth does not matter!! To all you reloaders. Spend more time on the range instead of on the charging bench.
Wow what a ridiculously gassy and smoky powder!
you have had trouble out of a couple of those seating dies now havent you? Those are expensive and that is the die that takes the least amount of pressure out of a set. unless you are doing a bunch of compressed loads. lead and copper should not harm steel but that sucks that you have had trouble with them
The problems have only been with this one die. I got a lemon. My other 3 are awesome and haven't really given me any issues.
ah, i didnt realize it was always the same die
have you tried ramshot tac? 24.5 grains I have found rung the most accuracy out of a given bullet.
Which powder do you recommend for 55 grain bullets, general plinking?
Does AR Comp have a lot of flash?
Maybe you're trying too many different things at once...too many variables into the mix.
What was the best oal
Did you see the eclipse today or are you not close enough?
I had a pretty decent view. It didn't get totally dark here. Like...you would never have needed headlights. But it was still pretty neat. What about you?
Johnny's Reloading Bench sorry I just now saw that you commented back it was cool it was completely dark but still not pich black but still awesome.
Always had best results 2.225 to 2.230.
Yeah , prolly should have stayed with H335
How many yards?
What was name of that cleaning rod that took the tampon looking thing?
Michael Lavazza Kotex
This is the set that I have.
deweyrods.com/product/l-16-223-300-aac-blackout-ar-15-lug-recess-cleaning-kit/
Maybe that barrel just does not like that bullet!!!