3D Printed RC Lifting Body Aircraft? - RCTESTFLIGHT
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2019
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Testing my 3D printed lifting body aircraft. The point of this project was to design an aircraft that would only fly if it first dove straight down to build up enough speed to pull up to horizontal flight right before landing.
STL files for this Lifting Body: www.thingiverse.com/thing:358...
I've since received enough lifting body submissions, but here were the requirements:
- Should be simple to build (few components)
- Can be printed on CR10 (300*300*500)
- Mounting holes for 20.5mm flight controller
- Mounting location for FPV cam
- Enough room in the front for enough weight to get the CG right
- Check my design in the link above for reference
- Send me the design at rctestflight@gmail.com - Наука та технологія
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...ok
Yea, no thanks lol
u had ur trail edge way to sharp for control surface to take effect and lost lift to cause of this .. like a mini tornado behind the plane... boundary layer separation from the high pressure below the wing swirling up to meet the low pressure above the wing or body in this case... extend the top of the body and have a slope to the bottom of the body try an angle then try a curve.> [][][[[][][]][]]][[][[]][[]][[][][[]][[][]][[[]][]
hey Id like to give a recommendation for further drops. One problem you are having is how the vehicle is released. Im an armament technician, one of the things iv learned over the years is there is a reason all munitions and even air launched vehicles are carried horizontally. Its for stabilizing airflow over the surface, and the keep the nose forward for improved aerodynamics. In most of your videos the aircraft is basically vertical, this is costing you time, altitude, and stability. If possible- have the vehicle dropped horizontally while flying forward (even if slow). you should have better results.
Daniel, I don't think that anybody from this community plays that kinda stuff. But also, nobody will criticize you for having that sponsor and saying things like "I don't play a lot, but when I play, I make sure to play Raid...". We all know that youtubes ad revenues are rough these days. Sadly (as a student ;) ) I simply can't afford to support you on patreon either. => I'm so happy to be able to support you by just giving a bit of my time to your sponsor. Don't hesitate to take more sponsors, even if you don't particulary support this stuff. Because in the end: it's not about some strange ads here and there, it's about implementing crazy ideas and projects, pushing the industry and bringing new people into this hobby, just as you did with me back in 2012.
So stoked Daniel is ramping the videos back up, this is the channel that got me into rc to begin with
HAha. That was the most unenthusiastic ad read ever!
Love the aircraft though.
Clive Myrie 😂😂😂
_look how detailed these warriors are_
not scripted lol
They deserve no more
_*in the most monotone voice:_ ThAt WiLl HaVe YoU oN tHe EdGe Of YoUr SeAt
i think a major issue is the 3D print roughness of the surface. You need a very smooth surface for a good laminar flow and lift. perhaps with some good sanding and polishing it would have been a lot better.
Especially at that scale. Imagine how big those lines would be if it were full scale...
Destin heard you say laminar flow. He is coming.
Maybe vapor smoothing it
@@anikpatel6727 that only works on ABS. All these planes are made of PLA.
Cupcake maybe try printing in abs or with non planer printing also maybe try printing with less infill since the lifting body is heavy
I'd be interested in seeing it without the slots underneath. I suspect (as you mention) that they might not be doing too much given that they don't increase the cross-section.
Speaking as someone who's done zero reasearch on lifting body aerodynamics, I also suspect that they're killing a lot of your lift. They're a pretty big departure from the shapes which were known to work in the 60s. Maybe try something closely modelled on one of those designs, just to get a feel for how the designs scale?
I bet it's making the air in the back too turbulent and slowing it down making it do the flatspins
I agree with both of these comments and would bet that the bottom grooves may be hindering more than helping. keep it up! love the videos.
me thinks too. maybe a shape that resembles the bottom of a boat.and model b (fatty) needs more surface area in the verticle stabilization area, me thinks
Theyre probably acting like a diffuser on f1 cars
Its creating downforce
the sudden angle change probably causes flow separation and turbulence. The strakes on a diffuse exists to control vortices if I recall correctly.
That diffuser is definitly not helping the lift, but it will help track straight. It actually is creating drag at the bottom, pushing the nose forward and down. I would recommend sizing it down a little or putting it on top where it will lift the nose.
Great work though!
I agree. I also think the rear of the craft is too blunt and would create a very turbulent and unstable wake. If that could be streamlined I think it will significantly reduce drag and help with stability.
Notice how the NASA/ US government..DID...NOT PUT A "DIFFUSER" on the bottom of it's LIFTING BODY AIRCRAFT !!!!!!! I have an extremely low IQ....most would agree that I'm fairly retarded...I barely graduated....and even I....even I... FEAKED out when I saw the diffuser.....@RCTESTFLIGHT do you know what helps small lifting body aircraft fly better than slotted and straked race car style diffusers.... ? Bowling Balls !!! srsly Attach one to the nose via a wire.
When I was a kid, I watched a lifting body crash at the beginning of every 6 Million Dollar Man episode.
ua-cam.com/video/bGO57y4td-c/v-deo.html
@@Stumblingthunder That goes to show the design was bad. :D
@@goku445 it crashed because a chase helicopter was in the wrong place, blocking the pilot's view of the ground. The lifting body pilot released the landing gear too late, it smacked into the ground too low to lock down. So the gear collapsed, the belly crashed into the ground then the lifting body went sideways and rolled.
The pilot survived with some injuries but later lost an eye from an infection. (Dirty hospital!) Why he survived was design problems with those lifting body shapes. Having to be bigger at the back makes them tail heavy. Their initial solution idea was to borrow some gold from the government, load it into the nose, do the test flights then put the gold back. Ah, the glory days when NASA had that kind of pull. Then one of the team suggested they just add a whole bunch of steel to the internal frame around the pilot, but make it all structural rather than just dead weight.
All that super strength saved the pilot's life and minimized the damage to where the craft was rebuilt with an altered shape and flown for several more test flights.
Lol! That's the first thing I thought of when he said they all landed ok, and yeah, that was real life footage, not a simulation or a model.
Probably the worst crash footage the show could find where the aircraft wasn't engulfed in flames.
The M2F2 was the lifting body that crashed. It was rebuilt as the M2F3, with aerodynamic modifications to make it more controllable. The most obvious being a third vertical stabilizer {the M2F2 had two vertical stabs}.
This book covers lifting body development in the United States:
www.amazon.com/Wingless-Flight-Lifting-Body-Story/dp/0160493900
Love these vids Dan, keep them up. Would love to see this baby boy flare out!
One of the major lessons learned from the M2 lifting body in the 60's, which is most similar to the one in the video, is it needs a vertical fin right on the centerline to stabilize in roll. I bet if you add a centerline fin, the uncontrolled spins would stop.
I also agree with the poster who questions the use of a flight controller. It hides the real behavior of the vehicle, and will often make things worse once they go bad (like spins).
at 6:34 all i could think of was "Hey Buzz You're Flying", "This Isn't Flying. This is Falling, With Style."
The most interesting aspect of the lifting body is that it at least proves aerodynamic concepts that can be utilized in new experiments. It may eventually change the ways we compensate for drag in actual vehicles.
Great video. I built a couple of powered scale rc lifting bodies about 10 years ago but never got the chance to fly them. I built them from depron. Now that I have the time, I definitely want to revisit this project.
A good resource for you on this is "Flying Without Wings" By authors Thompson and Peebles covering the full history, flight by flight with the test pilots notes and feedback. Your flying prototype resembles the M2-F3 profile, but your ventral slots may be robbing you of lift... maybe if try some flights where it's taped over in increasing stages from front to rear. Your more streamlined shape is closer to the HL-10 without the mid fuselage volume but with the flared wingtips. Hope you continue making and flying these models... maybe check out the "Dreamchaser" by Sierra Nevada Corp... it could lead to a job with them perhaps !
Fyi, something I have learned from making boomerangs from aircraft grade plywood: as smooth as the raw wood surface can be made, a gloss finish makes a drastic difference in flight characteristics! I would try to throw an unfinished boomerang and it wouldn’t want to fly, much less with stable and predictable characteristics, clear coat it and suddenly they fly like a dream!
More on this please! So interesting.
Would love to see you continue this project, the original drop shuttle lifting body video is what got me to subscribe in the first place
you might be interested to know the lifting body principle was designed by Vincent Burnelli back in the 1930s. he made lots of odd looking planes which i personally love. Like the CBY-3 Loadmaster
Ive been digging through what I can find of his research, I'm intrigued and hopefully it help with my race planes
Awesome man! Your drop shuttle videos are my favorite!😀 keep up the good work
That was a great kick at the can, I’ve watched your videos since the wooden H quad. Your content is always inspiring and helps motivate me to keep working on my own RC experiments and projects. Thanks Daniel
I'd never even heard of lifting bodies before this video. Fascinating stuff. A lot of those glides looked really cool from the Alta shots.
Nice work Daniel. Love all your experimental stuff
Some time ago I made a lifting body design that was very stable. he endured large angles of attack without swinging and had good control.
It was also quite light, although I have made others of free flight that measure 10 cm and they weighed quite a bit. and flew perfect without any control.
if you want I'll send you the design to make one similar.
Still willing to share?
@@ravileejones7381 The prototypes I made were made of foam, I still don't have
stl
Have you considered the rear slots could be pulling the tail down? That is what f1 cars use for maximum vacuum downforce. I'm not sure if this applies when there is no ground surface to interact with, but might be a problem when landing, at the very least.
You're confusing the Difuser with the ground effect. Look it up.
@@vvhat similar idea though. I think it is hurting the performance by making the air behind the vehicle swirl
@@KnowledgePerformance7 I'm pretty sure diffusers reduce drag by energizing the flow behind the vehicle, which reduces turbulence. But it does reduce lift because it reduces the air pressure below the fuselage.
love seeing these videos again, feels old school. Can't wait for the printed wing video :D
"hah WOW that worked!" - Best quote ever 😍😍😍
Great seeing your flight testing of lifting body. I worked 10 years designing & wind tunnel testing lifting bodies.
When the lifting body drops from the drone and is filmed from the drone, it looks like the start sequence of the six million dollar man...
Sanding really goes a long way on 3d printed parts, the layer seams/printing artifacts definitely seem to affect drag. Great design, dont worry too much if your revisions start to stray from the original idea, just about anything ive made that actually works ended up looking only vaguely like the original concept lol
Love the channel man! Im trying to get into prototyping and have some project ideas I want to show you once I start
Glad you spent the time to do this. Great video!
Wow! Glad you got this to work👍
I like the idea of attaching control surfaces directly to the servomotor.
I’ve always liked the idea of lifting body aircraft. Excellent video!
From what I've read is that NASA was initially interested in lifting bodies for spacecraft coming back from orbit. During one drop test the lifting body which flew more like a streamlined brick made a successful landing on the dry lake bed. Shortly after rolling to a stop the B-52 mothership roared over at low altitude. One of the engineers asked: How did he get down from altitude so quickly. The B-52 pilots showed the engineers their technique and proved that winged aircraft can be used for reentry.
About being a streamlined brick...
A local glider club presented one of the test pilots a trophy that was a red brick ground to a streamlined shape.
6:23 the plane monitor likes those old tv designs
Keep the upper Surface flat, and get rid of the Grooves on the lower Surface, @ high AOA the Airflows Direction is'nt only from the Nose to the Rear, Your Airflow takes also, from the lowest Part of the "Belly" to the outside(Tip) ,place ,basically it flyes by the Vortex, it's like two Wingtips, without the whole Wing between.
The wings change the angle of attack for the lifting body. The "grooves" on the bottom are pulling nose down.. this is adding drag. perhaps more than stability.
Increase your printer's flow rate and infill overlap, should fill in those gaps.
I think you've got some really good ideas. Keep working on the project!!
You have great tenacity. Keep up the fantastic work.
I am building and flying planes since a very long time now. I also fly quads for years. I know a quad definitely needs a fc for sure. But I never use fcs in planes. They are so well controllable without it. Of course when well tuned it works and helps you flying it. But in windy conditions it often over or underreacts. I think you should try doing it with just connecting the servos to the receiver, Programm a mix and give it a hell of expo for smoothness.
I think especially with a small „plane“ like this it’s too hard to tune it right and the fc just uses the servos to much, causing it to slow down because it wants to stabilise it perfectly. Maybe it gains more speed.
But definitely a nice idea!!! Never have heard of something like this before! Very nice build. And very nice, simple and working mechanism to drop the plane. Thumbs up!
This sponsorship is so random for this channel lmao
I wonder if the issue is flow separation due to the flat top and the high angle of attack due to the high wing loading. Daniel, could you try shaping the top to keep the flow attached?
Wow. Flys like a LAWN DART !
Love all of your videos. Enjoy your experiments as we sure do!
You got me into RC by showing me how cool it can be
Looking at the HL-10, it looks like the airframe leads a lot of airflow from the sides up to between the vertical stabilizers, to add lift and roll stability.
When looking at your print and imagine the air flows in similar angles, I'd guess that severe turbulence would build up on the top side of the body, as it is rather flat and there is a straight leading edge that follows from the front right to the back, which then could cause a spin so abrupt it really looks like a servo glitch
another lifting body video! yes! i love this series
With 3D printing and laptops and smart people like you, perhaps technology will make another huge leap forward. Great video!
Dude, love your channel man! Keep it up.
the fins at the bottom is ok, but the inclined angle of the tail creating low pressure that's why its tail heavy.
just make it smooth straight.
Falling with style!
Nice Daniel
No infills and 2 shells, than put a 80mm EDF on it. Would be cool to see :D
In the first test flights (before any components were added to the craft) it looked like the drone was creating a bunch of turbulence on the crafts as they were released.
You might try having them tethered further away from the drone (like 20ft below it), or have a very long beam extend off the drone so the craft is outside the turbulence. If the drone can't maintain balance, you could extend a beam in both directions with a counter weight that gets dropped at the same time as the craft, and have it tied to the center of the drone to prevent the counterweight from falling on anyone's head.
You really do some incredible projects!
Toy Story: that's not flying, that's falling with style.
THIS IS AMAZINGLY INTERESTING!!
I would watch hours of video about this.
Don't hesitate to do some more sponsored content as long as it helps you !
Love your channel and glad to be here before 200 views!!
we can feel the pain while talking about raid appreciate you mental strength bro, but can't wait to see the second part of the video keep going !!
This look like a fucking paper airplane.
And i love it.
The bottom fins look like air diffusers. A lot of race cars use them to help boost the speed air moving beneath the car. They re probably reducing a lot of lift. If it was smooth you'd likely have a lot more lift. (diffusers are meant to create downforce)
Aerodynamically you would want slower moving air with more drag on the bottom of the wing, and faster moving air at the top. Having diffusers on the top might help
I’ve already designed a stable tandem wing lifting body called Future Star.
It can carry lots of weight and has its own propulsion. It’s also air launched.
its so cool, its like he miniaturized areospace development and now he can just iterate on it over and over really quickly. become his own nasa launching tiny rockets with recovery vehicles that fly back home
Yes!
This is awesome!
5:25 my totally unsubstantiated guess would be that the increased speed of the horizontal flight makes the "wingtip" vortex increase up to a point it totally stalls the lifting body. Maybe some vertical stabilizers can help separate/block that vortex, like winglets on passenger jets.
YESSSSS... a passion of mine - aircraft carriers, drop ships, co-op (possible) flying (i.e. one person manning the host plane, one manning the parasite)
Everything besides the lackluster sponsor plug was fantastic
Johnathan Tafoya it's so him though. I personally loved it. Hilarious
Video games are not my forte...
These mobile games offer stupid amounts of money to promote their shitty games. I can't blame so of these smaller creators caving into the pressure.
@@__gavin__ it's not even pressure imo. I think every creator should make a buck off their videos
@@rctestflight I don't blame you. It's just unfortunate that many creators have to rely on ads that could potentially alter their content negatively. You should consider starting up a patreon or even a PayPal so we can support your projects. I'm sure many of us would be happy to do so.
Try covering the thing with aluminum flue tape to smooth the surface. Don't rub it hard onto it, that will only result in a somewhat smoother surface across the print layers. Another thing to try is heavy duty clear packing tape. I mean the really good tape, not thing dollar store crap. With either tape, bridge over those slats you put on the bottom.
Next thing to do is drop it almost flat, a little nose down rather than hanging with the nose straight down. Nose down dropping is like those wingsuit fliers jumping off high cliffs. They lose a huge amount of altitude before they get significant horizontal velocity. If they had some sort of launch rail or slingshot they could fly much farther.
I’m literally in a lifting body obsession phase rn this is so perfect
Every single video you make is amazingly interesting. Cool to see the progression. And yeah, active flight control must be huge in those full-scale versions. Maybe a slightly larger scale would be helpful for your experimentation, but then 3D printing is harder.
Cool. I was thinking of trying this, now I think I'll skip it hehheh. Great video.
You are really pumping out a lot of projects these days! Really cool to see. You should bring back David Windestal's fpv glider drop from space. Ive always wanted to see somebody do it successfully!
"So that goes to show I spent way too much time on this project"
Please, no... at least for the sake of the video, you got my interest!!!!! :D
More more more :D
Thanks for sharing!
Kind of funny when you think about it...all the misconceptions about aerodynamics that still exist. Even many college students still try to explain lift with Bernoulli's principle, when the 'vast' majority of it is reaction lift; which enables aircraft such as the counter intuitive lifting body to fly. What with it's curved surfaces on the bottom and all.
Some of the reasons why the F-35 looks a little stubby with its upturned nose and short neck compared to the sleek F-16 is because it has incorporated some of the lifting body characteristics into its airframe. I believe this gives the airplane high AOA authority, especially at low speeds.
5:05 that basically what happens every time I play War Thunder on simulator mode and try to out turn someone in a dog fight.
true xD
Nasa lifting bodies were very light. Rocket fuel to get to space leaves you with a light outer shell and minimal structure. High drag good for re-entry to keep speed and heat down. I suspect your wing loading is much higher. Lower wingloading on model means lower terminal velocity and less penetration. Maybe more control throw and just the right cg and you could gease the landing.
Thanks for sharing!
The "tail heavy" one's design doesn't actually generate lift, it just rides the air like a boat. You've tried to add an airfoil to the top of that, which basically means it's now a cone, neither a lifting body nor an airfoil. Of course all it does is dive into the ground.
The lifting body series is really good.
I may be wrong, but try making the bottom a little flatter, and the control surfaces a little wider. Also I think the flat back could be causing a lot of turbulence
I think your "built in" strakes on the underside might be creating an area of low pressure, which could be causing some of your instability. Maybe try sculpting them in smoother so that the don't have such a sharp cutoff where they meet the middle underside of the fuselage? Or maybe try one without them all together? Cheers and thanks for another interesting video :)
Super-Duper! Very interesting experiments with great results!))
Having gone through the lifting body phase with no stabilization it's got to be made from foam for a lighter loading. Air density doesn't scale. I'd piggyback mine up on a trainer 60 then fly them down to a hand catch, but they were only 2-3 oz. Most were an exact scale of the original so you can throw it like a football and fly it back. Took a strong arm and an immediate return to home flight plan.
How about Dream Chaser design? Thats a lifting body spaceplane, pretty similar to your design
Thats a great one! Would definitely print it if someone made the CAD model
@@rctestflight
What's the lense diameter for the fpv cutout?
Print volume available?
I know you can just scale it, but I want to make life easy for ya, want the servos to fit nice.
Check the video description. You can get the critical dimensions off my lifting body STL @@index7787
@@steadikek
It's a hell of a good reference, I'll clean it up and make it RC friendly. Thanks man!
That's actually a direct successor to the other lifting bodies you saw in the NASA footage, they basically contonued on the research when NASA stopped working on the HL-10
neato! too much fun! thx for showing
I hope you can keep getting sponsorships! I know some people attack creators for getting sponsors or what not but if it helps you keep making awesome videos thats a plus in my book! Great video!
I made some lifting bodies in high school that were launched from a drone and eventually from a rocket. I ran into a lot of the same problems as you with the yaw stability. A more flat body and larger body and larger vertical stabilizer closer to the edge of the body helped a lot. Still squirrely though.
Absolutely loved the lifting body vid!!!! Please keep working on it! Maybe try one without the bottom fins, since the real ones never had it?
That flatspin looks like so many of my KSP aircraft. Slight pull on the stick -> instant spin.
I know it's 4 years too late, but IMO one of the main handicaps you faced was due to the way you suspended it from the drone. It simply didn't have enough time to get into a stable flight position before reaching the ground. I'll bet that if you had a simple 3-point harness (a string coming from the nose and each of the rear corners, meeting in a loop, and you suspended it from that, it would be a lot more likely to reach a controllable attitude before approaching the ground.
I would love a series where you just drop weird gliders and see if they can fly. This was super interesting.
It would be interesting to build one with a smooth bottom and top and compare it to the flight characteristics of the one with ventral channels. With the channels, the dis-similar surface flows (as they meets at the trailing edge) might be quite chaotic across the lower surface resulting in that tendency to flat spin under light loading, or require higher weight than is optimal for efficient lift to regain stability.
You re-created the Six Million Dollar man crash! You should try an Arup. This was great thanks.
Thats an interesting shape. Might want to blend the removable top section into the sides better. Help with a little lost lift. Body lifting aircraft land at relatively high speeds by nature so Im not sure you can get that nice soft landing
I think you should try to make a warped wing, where the wing twists instead of using a control surface.
the moment of stall, right before it starts to flat spin, is audible in the audio track. the wind noise goes "ffffff-ftp-frfrfrfr", whereby spinning starts at the "ftp".
Awsome test work!
would you create more lift if you slope the upper curve farhter down in between the fins like the x 10?
loose some inside volume though.
and do bigger control surfaces help?
x10 seem to be a clipped wing from above.
The early lifting body craft that Northrop and NASA were testing had very similar issues to what appeared in your video. The M2-F2, M2-F3 and the HL-10 all similar to your lifting body that was having stability and apparent CG issues. The M2-F2/3 was modified with a center stabilizer and the engineers for the HL-10 modified the outside fins. In both the M2-F2 and the earliest version of the HL-10, flow separation was deemed to be the major issue. This would also explain your comments about random stalling. I believe the first test pilot for the first flight of the HL-10 had to keep his speed way up to keep the craft under any type of control. I would really like to see your follow up experimentation.