My experience is similar to yours -- 40 years of windsurfing and a couple of years of winging. Paddling up a DW board in flat water is hard (7' 2" Armstrong DW board). I'm going to negatively shim my mast and give it a go. I'm 73 years old so this is a definite challenge but I'm not quitting (not yet anyway). I wish foiling was a "thing" when I was 41 years old -- lucky you. Time isn't on my side so I'm going for it! Thanks for your honest video -- refreshing.
This is amazing!!! This is my goal to be taking on challenges like this when i'm 73. You are an inspiration. Please keep us all posted on how you go. P.S I'm also going to experiment with shimming as I've heard this helps.
I’m super envious of you experienced windsurf folks now windsurf foiling. I downwind sup and am now getting into wingfoiling. I will always be impressed by windsurf foilers in high winds and hope one day I can try it. It’s scares me what you guys can do. ❤
Great video, really interesting journey, mad keen to downwind sup foil myself in a beautiful bay here in Ireland. This was the reality check to tell me it’s gonna be a bit of hard work ☘️☘️ Looking forward to next few parts
Great Idea to document this and make the struggle tangible. I am mostly clueless but afaik the f-one fools have a 2-3 degree angle to fit the shape to fit f-One boards. That normally leads to other boards having the nose pointing down just a bit. As with paddling every joule of energy counts, it might make a lot of sense to shim the foil by 2-3 degrees. You can also google this, many people do it. It might help just a little bit.
Great stuff. I've just started the same journey with very little sup experience. Done my first hour on flat water. I feel like I need an even bigger front wing for flatwater paddle ups. I'm only 73kg and was using a 1700 front wing (a low aspect one). Now getting a slightly higher aspect 1950. From looking around on youtube, people seem to say that huge high aspect wings make a big difference in flatwater- ones with a wingspan of 130-180 cm, but the brand I use (Takoon) don't make anything than big. I'll be following your progress with interest, as I'm a few sessions behind you!
Haha, that’s a funny one! I love that watch. I’ve had Apple Watches before but this is way better and much more robust! I probably use about 10% of its functions but the speed (in kts) and sleep tracking is why I bought it.
How do you determine right paddle size? Is there some guidance based on body weight / fitness level/ paddling experience? For example 77kg, average fitness, very little paddling experience? Am I looking at 90in or 105in? Or is 105in for the big guys?
I would say go with the smaller paddle. I went big after a few months and I found I couldn’t get the cadence/stroke rate with the big ones. I’ve gone back to a smaller one (think mine is 89).
Ive heard a similar story from Dave West. BUT I saw a UA-cam short yesterday of Gwen (the bloke from Damien Le Roi) pump a downwind board up onto foil without a paddle or a wing, just a seriously good pump and, no doubt, a big foil.
Yes, I didn’t want to do it with a dedicated pump foil as this will difficult in the waves. I wanted to learn on a standard foil you can pump AND turn.
Cool, vid. I've just been through this, after 4 months of winging and minimal prior SUPing, I got the DW bug. It was another 4 months until I finally paddled up in a cold, gusty and bumpy 25kt westerly on the bay, then another 2.5 months to flat water paddle up just a few weeks ago (Axis PNG 1300, Sunova aviator elite 7'0"). I estimate I spent about 80h over the 6 months in varied conditions but don't really want to add up my tracker log. I was told that sort of time period isn't particularly long or short around here, unlike somewhere like Perth that has great conditions. I went to 1 group coaching clinic with James Casey and I'm about a decade older than you, and definitely not a top athlete. Technique is important but if you're in the Coach Casey Club (I wasn't), technique blind alleys won't be such a problem like they were for me. It took time to develop the minimum strength and balance needed and that was probably the rate limiting step all things considered. A clue is you'll no longer feel like you're going to die after a paddle up attempt, 🤮😁. I had the most fun winter ever learning this, keeps you warm and outside. Hopefully the summer southerlys will be back this year and we can really get into it. Looking forward to the next vid. I'd put money on you getting up, just stick it out, see you out there.
Amazing, thanks for sharing this! Yes, I think going through this journey without any help is just going to prolong the pain. Glad to hear you are smashing it, hopefully I won’t be too far behind you!
@henryhester1897 How's it going? Have you been able to wing on one of these DW boards? I'm thinking of getting one for LW winging, but not sure if I can master these narrow boards if chop
@@bmrbca3658 thanks for the concern. I’ve been out of the water mostly for a few reasons. Waiting for my big board to get done (I’m now on day 6 on it) and a new open four toe blister problem caused by bad water shoes. Plus 98 yr old mom duty. So… I’m slogging at will, 200 yards, going fast, slightly unsteady on too light of wind (6-8). I’m thinking forward. More wind, hand paddling into 2’ waves, where I’m infinitely more at home than winging, here in San Diego. Bought paddle with extra paddle end for knee kayak speed. Almost healed enough to enter the water, bought Solite 5mm moldable booties. I’ll get on foil in the next few attempt days.
As someone who has just broken through the struggle phase and is now putting together some legit DW runs (with a lot of falling) I'd humbly suggest that you're making pretty rapid progress. 8 hours is not a long time, and if you're already getting the board slapping on the water on the PUP, you are not too far off, as is shows youre starting to get the foil engaged. Paddling up in the bumps is WAY easier so get out there if you haven't already. You will surprise yourself. Don't underestimate what your prone skills are giving you too. Once up you will be half way to DW nirvana as your board skills are already honed so you 'only' have to learn bump reading, and not how to ride the board (without a wing for balance) at the same time. I get you want to give this respect its due, but i don't think your an Average Joe. You'll be up and doing DW pretty quickly i reckon, with the bump reading and decision making being your main focus on progression... Enjoy!
Hi mate, Thanks for the tips and advice. So good to hear from people that have trodden this path and succeeded. It gives me motivation that I can do it too! Completely agree with your comment about the bumps. I went out last week for the first time in windblown bumps (not a proper DW run, just onshore wind bumps that I paddled out in), and I actually got up!!! Was so excited. You are right also about the prone foiling helping. The pumping technique is the same and knowing where to put your feet and get speed out of turns is a big help. Just need to learn how to read the bumps. I've been doing downwind runs with the wing to help with this. Hopefully this pays off. Thanks again for the help!
Thank you for a great video Mr Average Joe😂, I am 65 and have been kite foiling nearly 4 years and just getting my turns ok. For me like you said was a mvery humbling experience. Specially watching guys like you in their 30s and 40s becoming good in just a few months. I am doing downwind foiling with the kite nearly every day but now I like to get rid of the kite and can see it is going to be a long and painful experience. Thanks for this great info, all the best
I know, I still see young guys pick it up in a matter of weeks which is very disheartening. The way I have dealt with it is to learn to enjoy the journey. That way I don’t really care how long it takes me. My advice would be to commit to it and keep working on it over and over. You will get there.
My experience is similar to yours -- 40 years of windsurfing and a couple of years of winging. Paddling up a DW board in flat water is hard (7' 2" Armstrong DW board). I'm going to negatively shim my mast and give it a go. I'm 73 years old so this is a definite challenge but I'm not quitting (not yet anyway). I wish foiling was a "thing" when I was 41 years old -- lucky you. Time isn't on my side so I'm going for it! Thanks for your honest video -- refreshing.
This is amazing!!! This is my goal to be taking on challenges like this when i'm 73. You are an inspiration. Please keep us all posted on how you go. P.S I'm also going to experiment with shimming as I've heard this helps.
I’m super envious of you experienced windsurf folks now windsurf foiling. I downwind sup and am now getting into wingfoiling. I will always be impressed by windsurf foilers in high winds and hope one day I can try it. It’s scares me what you guys can do. ❤
Ngl, you sound a bit better than average joe! Even getting the list of skills you have takes a lot of dedication! Excited to watch your journey!
Wow, thanks! I hope you enjoy the next one.
Great video, really interesting journey, mad keen to downwind sup foil myself in a beautiful bay here in Ireland.
This was the reality check to tell me it’s gonna be a bit of hard work ☘️☘️
Looking forward to next few parts
Thanks 🥰🥰
Great Idea to document this and make the struggle tangible. I am mostly clueless but afaik the f-one fools have a 2-3 degree angle to fit the shape to fit f-One boards. That normally leads to other boards having the nose pointing down just a bit. As with paddling every joule of energy counts, it might make a lot of sense to shim the foil by 2-3 degrees. You can also google this, many people do it. It might help just a little bit.
Wow, I didn’t know that! Thank you, definitely going to try this!
Great stuff. I've just started the same journey with very little sup experience. Done my first hour on flat water. I feel like I need an even bigger front wing for flatwater paddle ups. I'm only 73kg and was using a 1700 front wing (a low aspect one). Now getting a slightly higher aspect 1950. From looking around on youtube, people seem to say that huge high aspect wings make a big difference in flatwater- ones with a wingspan of 130-180 cm, but the brand I use (Takoon) don't make anything than big. I'll be following your progress with interest, as I'm a few sessions behind you!
That’s great to hear someone else is going through it too. We can go through the pain together 👍. Let me know how you get on with the bigger foil.
thanx for sharing!!! but you might have a word or two on the garmin watch intinct 2 you are wearing. just an opinion would be nice! cheers!
Haha, that’s a funny one! I love that watch. I’ve had Apple Watches before but this is way better and much more robust! I probably use about 10% of its functions but the speed (in kts) and sleep tracking is why I bought it.
How do you determine right paddle size? Is there some guidance based on body weight / fitness level/ paddling experience? For example 77kg, average fitness, very little paddling experience? Am I looking at 90in or 105in? Or is 105in for the big guys?
I would say go with the smaller paddle. I went big after a few months and I found I couldn’t get the cadence/stroke rate with the big ones. I’ve gone back to a smaller one (think mine is 89).
Ive heard a similar story from Dave West. BUT I saw a UA-cam short yesterday of Gwen (the bloke from Damien Le Roi) pump a downwind board up onto foil without a paddle or a wing, just a seriously good pump and, no doubt, a big foil.
Yes, I didn’t want to do it with a dedicated pump foil as this will difficult in the waves. I wanted to learn on a standard foil you can pump AND turn.
Hi, great information about your journey. What is your weight?
Hi Mate,
I'm 80kg.
Cool, vid. I've just been through this, after 4 months of winging and minimal prior SUPing, I got the DW bug. It was another 4 months until I finally paddled up in a cold, gusty and bumpy 25kt westerly on the bay, then another 2.5 months to flat water paddle up just a few weeks ago (Axis PNG 1300, Sunova aviator elite 7'0"). I estimate I spent about 80h over the 6 months in varied conditions but don't really want to add up my tracker log. I was told that sort of time period isn't particularly long or short around here, unlike somewhere like Perth that has great conditions. I went to 1 group coaching clinic with James Casey and I'm about a decade older than you, and definitely not a top athlete. Technique is important but if you're in the Coach Casey Club (I wasn't), technique blind alleys won't be such a problem like they were for me. It took time to develop the minimum strength and balance needed and that was probably the rate limiting step all things considered. A clue is you'll no longer feel like you're going to die after a paddle up attempt, 🤮😁. I had the most fun winter ever learning this, keeps you warm and outside. Hopefully the summer southerlys will be back this year and we can really get into it. Looking forward to the next vid. I'd put money on you getting up, just stick it out, see you out there.
Amazing, thanks for sharing this! Yes, I think going through this journey without any help is just going to prolong the pain. Glad to hear you are smashing it, hopefully I won’t be too far behind you!
Is it any worth to learn SUP foiling if you only have access to flat water (inland lakes)? Is it even possible to do? Other than behind boat wake?
I definitely think it's possible to learn on a lake. For those days when its 25kts on the lake, you will have a blast.
Can’t get to my feet yet. 4 sessions. Wing no paddle
Keep going mate! We will get there.
@henryhester1897 How's it going? Have you been able to wing on one of these DW boards? I'm thinking of getting one for LW winging, but not sure if I can master these narrow boards if chop
@@bmrbca3658 thanks for the concern. I’ve been out of the water mostly for a few reasons. Waiting for my big board to get done (I’m now on day 6 on it) and a new open four toe blister problem caused by bad water shoes. Plus 98 yr old mom duty.
So… I’m slogging at will, 200 yards, going fast, slightly unsteady on too light of wind (6-8). I’m thinking forward. More wind, hand paddling into 2’ waves, where I’m infinitely more at home than winging, here in San Diego. Bought paddle with extra paddle end for knee kayak speed.
Almost healed enough to enter the water, bought Solite 5mm moldable booties.
I’ll get on foil in the next few attempt days.
Come to the retreat!!
This is something I’ve been talking about for ages! 100% going to do this, looks amazing.
As someone who has just broken through the struggle phase and is now putting together some legit DW runs (with a lot of falling) I'd humbly suggest that you're making pretty rapid progress. 8 hours is not a long time, and if you're already getting the board slapping on the water on the PUP, you are not too far off, as is shows youre starting to get the foil engaged.
Paddling up in the bumps is WAY easier so get out there if you haven't already. You will surprise yourself.
Don't underestimate what your prone skills are giving you too. Once up you will be half way to DW nirvana as your board skills are already honed so you 'only' have to learn bump reading, and not how to ride the board (without a wing for balance) at the same time.
I get you want to give this respect its due, but i don't think your an Average Joe. You'll be up and doing DW pretty quickly i reckon, with the bump reading and decision making being your main focus on progression... Enjoy!
Hi mate,
Thanks for the tips and advice. So good to hear from people that have trodden this path and succeeded. It gives me motivation that I can do it too!
Completely agree with your comment about the bumps. I went out last week for the first time in windblown bumps (not a proper DW run, just onshore wind bumps that I paddled out in), and I actually got up!!! Was so excited.
You are right also about the prone foiling helping. The pumping technique is the same and knowing where to put your feet and get speed out of turns is a big help. Just need to learn how to read the bumps. I've been doing downwind runs with the wing to help with this. Hopefully this pays off.
Thanks again for the help!
How much do you weigh?
I'm 85kg
You say "average Joe" but you've been foiling for ever! That's not Joe's average! That's someone who already knows how to foil!
🥰🥰🥰🥰
Thank you for a great video Mr Average Joe😂, I am 65 and have been kite foiling nearly 4 years and just getting my turns ok. For me like you said was a mvery humbling experience. Specially watching guys like you in their 30s and 40s becoming good in just a few months. I am doing downwind foiling with the kite nearly every day but now I like to get rid of the kite and can see it is going to be a long and painful experience.
Thanks for this great info, all the best
I know, I still see young guys pick it up in a matter of weeks which is very disheartening. The way I have dealt with it is to learn to enjoy the journey. That way I don’t really care how long it takes me. My advice would be to commit to it and keep working on it over and over. You will get there.