Pastor Tim, Thank you for giving to The Lord, The God Given insite , is such a blessing, what an awesome God we serve...your sister in Christ Melissa:)
Jesus the temple in which God and humanity meet. The Lord Jesus, the sacred space where God meet us and cherish us with the same love He loves his Son.
Just totally relate to Tim's way of explaining... To the point of washing my teeth in the kitchen exactly as he said it, for the same reason he suggested it! 😂🙈😂
Hey man thanks for the good word! I get a lot from your sermons, I really like the combo of your wealth of knowledge and that you’re pretty down to earth and can speak plainly. Much Love Bro
I love how Tim sees every passage of scripture as "intense." Every word, rightly divided, has life in it, and Tim doesn't take God's Word lightly! I can't help but wonder why Tim's roommate didn't remove the black noodle himself, instead of waiting a month to bring it up. (?)
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I send a messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple... the body of Jesus is the temple of the Spirit of God that came to Him at the point of baptism in water as ministered by John the Baptist (the messenger sent to prepare the way for the Lord). Hebrew 10:5 refers to a body prepared for Christ
Mormons have temples in this modern day, and the way that they avoid the issue mentioned by Isaiah that the Israelites were missing the point, is that with the Mormon practices in their temple is that almost everything they do is not for themselves but for other people. So, the unity and oneness that Mormons find in their temples is in serving and helping others have the opportunities to obtain the promises of the blessings of perfection, as mentioned in Hebrews 11:40. It is in a sense an act of selfless love, because of the Joy they have found and the desire that all others will have the same opportunity to find that same joy. Temples are quite literally used to unite the children of God in unity and love as one, that we all may be one, as Jesus and the Father are one (John 17:21). It is turning the hearts of the living (children) to their Fathers (dead) (Malachi 4:5-6), because they without us could not be made perfect. it is to have such great love for God and His plan that we willingly participate in bringing His plan to fruition.
Mormons believe in extra biblical teachings that Jesus did not teach. They might have temples now, but they also use them for purposes (marriages, endowments and baptisms for the dead) that have nothing in common with the temple in Jerusalem. If you are involved in Mormonism (or thinking about it) ask yourself: if I trust in the beliefs of Mormonism will it lead to eternal life or the outer darkness? Who is the better prophet Joseph Smith or Jesus? The ultimate goal of Mormonism is to attain godhood as they say Jesus did (he was not god, but by good works became god). Moreover, then once gods good Mormons will be assigned their own planet to rule over. If you want more info on Mormonism I recommend the ministry of Sandra Tanner ( an ex Mormon) at www.utlm.org/. This website is full of primary sources and citations of the writings of the Mormon early church and it's a great place to find more info. I want to help you and Mormons do not worship the God of Israel. It is not Christianity.
@@mustpetdog I think you have some very misconstrued understandings, and beliefs about what it is that Mormons actually teach, and believe. and it seems like you only know just enough to scare you into thinking Mormonism teaches things different than what the scriptures teach, or maybe you are learning what Mormonism is from people who have vested interest in tearing them down, so they purposely twist and wrest their doctrines into something they do not say or mean. The Bible is full of teachings that Jesus did not personally teach or emphasize. May people try to say that because Mormons use extra scriptures they are not following the Bible, but Jesus Himself used extra scriptures, so that point is mute. or that Mormonism is a cult, led by a charismatic leader, teaching people to disavow mainstream logic and thought, and follow something new and unproven, and yet that very description can be given to Jesus' Christian movement as well, so again that point is mute. And the whole Mormon temple having different practices than that of the Jewish temples, is a non-sequitur. They are operating under different levels or degrees of the priesthood. The Jewish temples operated under the authority of the Levitical priesthood of Aaron. Jesus established the Melchizedek Priesthood, which has the authority to perform more ordinances and practices, than just baptisms, in the temple (proxy work [Heb. 11:40, 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Cor. 15:29, Mal. 4:5-6], Sealings [Matthew 16:17-19], Healing [Mat. 10:1, James 5:14-16, Acts 28:8]. The issue is that those who had this Melchizedek priesthood died off or more likely were killed all within that next 30-50 years. but the Melchizedek priesthood did not continue past about 70 Ad when Jerusalem was overthrown by Rome. That is for sure. The Apostles showed the manner in which the Melchizedek priesthood and their calling of new apostles is to be done in Acts 1:15-26. It says that the others had to be there and since many were killed off so quickly it would have been impossible for the others to have all been together to call and ordain others to the Melchizedek priesthood after Paul Just 14 years after Christ's death. We don’t have records of the deaths of all the Apostles, but we do know that all but John the Beloved died and, after a time, ceased to be replaced. The keys and authority of the holy priesthood were lost with the deaths of the Church leaders. Without this authority, no new revelation, doctrine, or scripture could come. The Apostles were killed during a time when the entire Church was being persecuted. Nero, a Roman emperor, was the first to make laws to exterminate Christians, in about A.D. 65. Under his reign, thousands were cruelly killed. A second round of persecutions began in about A.D. 93 under Emperor Domitian. Succeeding emperors continued torturing and killing Christians. As a result of these persecutions, thousands of Christians were martyred. Many others apostatized. The point is that it makes perfect sense that temple practices done under a higher authority or higher Melchizedek Priesthood would not be included or part of the practices done under the lesser authority, or lesser Aaronic/ Levitical priesthood. And that is why you see scriptures in the new testament that do not make sense in the old Testament context. Jesus is restoring the Mechizedek Priesthood and it's practices back to the Earth, and those holding the Levitical priesthood (phisees) are threatened, and don't understand why what they have isn't all there is or isn't good enough. Things like being ordained and given authority to do things other than animal sacrifices, which is just a symbolic ritual about baptism which is what the Levitical (Aaronic) priesthood had the authority to do all through the time of Christ, and still has the authority to perform in Mormonism today. It is the higher Priesthood that was lost at the time of the sons of Israel. those sons were given the Melchizedek priesthood from Jacob, who got it from Isaac, who got is from Abraham, who got it from Melchizedek. But, in Numbers 8:10 it only says that the sons of Israel laid hands on the sons of Levi to give them their priesthood (lesser priesthood). Moses and His brother Aaron, being descendants of Levi, were also given the same lesser priesthood which carried on through the time of Christ. Christ Himself recognized that those Jewish priests of His day held the lesser priesthood of Aaron, stating, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you." (Mat. 23:2-3). And yet those very same Pharisees understood that Jesus was using an authority and level of the priesthood that they themselves did not recognize (Melchizedek priesthood)(Mat.21:23-27). I don't know that we could find a Mormon that would agree that Jesus is not God, only that Jesus and the Father are not the same person. That doesn't disqualify Jesus from being God. However I will say that there are passages that say that Jesus had to grow in favor of God, and grow in God's grace. obviously those are referring to the Father's favor and grace, because Jesus is for all intents and purposes God, but the point is that scripture does support the doctrine that Jesus, even being God, still had to do things and become something more than He was to gain more of the Father's grace and favor. So I see no contradiction with Mormonism and scripture on this topic, only contradiction with Mormonism and your interpretation of doctrine. It is an odd question to ask one's self, if "I trust in the beliefs of Mormonism will it lead to eternal life or the outer darkness?" especially when according to Mormon doctrine it is Mormonism alone that leads to "eternal life" and all the other mainstream Christian religions are teaching doctrines that lead to a lesser degree of inheritance and glory in Heaven. Outer darkness in Mormonism isn't really a thing anyone needs to be overly worried about going to, since it is reserved for only those sons of Perdition that betray and openly make covenants with Satan, to fight against God, will receive. like Cain and Judas did. not to mention the fact that to become a son of perdition one has to have undeniable knowledge of the divinity of Christ and the existence of God, and then deny that knowledge, and very few people in the world have ever had that undeniable knowledge, let alone had it and then went against it. I don't know what you define Christianity as, but if Christianity is a belief that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of the living God, come to Earth in the flesh to sacrifice Himself and redeem all who are fallen; to believe that we should act and follow His teachings and example; Then I can not find a single teaching or practice within Mormonism that says they are not Christians. I'm not sure where you got your info from but it seems very biased and twisted. maybe you just got it from very disgruntled and angry people hell bent on tearing others down. IDK, but it doesn't seem to be accurate.
I totally LOVE and am so grateful for Tim's ministry! But, I have to completely disagree with him at 14:31. "Don't allow theological differences to rip apart your churches" is actually contrary to Scripture. 1 Cor. 11:19 specifically says "For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you." The point being that the Church MUST teach correct teachings, doctrine, theology, etc, based on Scripture. When there are differences from that, it MUST be confronted and dealt with. Error cannot be permitted or the Gospel will be watered down.
@@haroldcabil12 And thank YOU! I normally would NEVER "argue" any point that Tim has to say, as he has been SOOOO very helpful to me and his ministry is soooo amazing!! I don't like like stirring up any conflict at all, especially eith a brother that is so RIGHT ON, practically all the time! I have great admiration for him and the Godly work he does. But this particular point he said just raised an important red flag for me. Thank you for your feedback!
quick thought - have to major on the major, minor on the minors. If some person disagrees, there are other churches they may attend. Disunity is not from the father, that's what Ephesians is all about. Anyway, we pastor at an 'international church' with people from many theological backgrounds. There absolutely are theological disagreements as people are from many backgrounds, and those will not rip apart our church, as we major on the majors - Triune God, divinity of Christ, etc.
Great job, Tim. Our holy bathroom space was a great illustration and I really like how you don't just have an intellectual discussion about being God's temple, but you also challenge members in the audience to bring their sexuality in line with God's plan. My question is doesn't Jesus being God's temple imply that he himself is not the Almighty God. It seems that it doesn't make much sense to discuss God being His own temple, amongst other things...
Nicodemus Kathoplizo, Why do you think I would be confusing a figure that is in the Bible with a figure who is not. I just don't see the Trinity in the Bible let alone the second person of it. Further, I just can't see how Jesus is truly God, when he is described as the Image of God (The image of a thing is never that same thing), describes himself as God's temple (a temple of God is not God), and he specifically excluded himself in the same breath he declared the Father to be the only true God. (John 17:1-3). I think there is a fundamental confusion caused by many Christians overlooking the fact that Jesus himself proclaims that there are other beings who are not the only true God, yet who are never the less are called gods (an individual among them would be a god) by the only true God, when he was defending himself against charges of blasphemy (John 10:34-36). It turns out that the only true God, not only calls them gods, but sons of the Most High (Ps 82:6) who will die like men. Which is interesting, since the one Jesus identifies as the only true God never dies like a man... or is called the son of anyone. This may seem absurd because of the way we think of the word "god" when used in the Bible. We think the word God describes a class of being or its essence. Instead it would better match the scriptural evidence to see the word "god" as describing a title of a role embodied by someone. Therefore beings other than the one true God can justifiably be called gods. Just like how a being who is not the only one Father (Matthew 23:9) can nevertheless properly be called a father by God (Gen 17:5) Notice that Jesus in the "form" of god (The Greek word lacks the definite article that is associated with The God and doesn't distinguish the word with capitalizatios) is contrasted with himself in the form of a bondservant (Philippians 2:6-7 there the Greek word for form is the same for god and bondservant, but different from the word form in verse 8). There is no bondservant being, but a bondservant role. Jesus being a God being wasn't being contrast with him being a servant being, but his God role, he emptied himself of, is being contrast with his servant role he took on. Logically speaking, there's nothing that prevents the almighty God from exalting whatever being he pleases and delegating whatever power and authority he pleases - even to participate in the creation Hebrews 1:1-2. Jesus himself points out that his authority is not derived from himself but that it was given to him (Matthew 28:18). He is not the ultimate source of all authority but only the only true God is.
Nicodemus Kathoplizo, *In most instances above you are focusing solely on Jesus humanity (he was truly human) and ignoring his divinity.* Not at all, I affirm his divinity, just not as as the Almighty Divinity.. Just as the Bible affirms him not as the Almighty. *Image of God ('exact representation') - can the finite be the exact representation of the infinite?* Well, yes, in the same way that a 2-D picture can exactly represent the image of a 3-D person. Exact representative doesn't mean exact copy. It just means that one presents exactly as purposed whatever aspect of the original they're meant to (will, character, plan, favor, etc.) *God's Temple - Jesus is described as temple, sacrifice and priest so your exclusive analogy (temple means not God) breaks down (as he fills many roles).* Not at all, but your examples further confirm my point which is not that Jesus can't have multiple roles. That would be silly to say. He just can't simultaneously have multiple roles that mutually exclude each other. One can be both a father and a son at the same time. Perhaps one can be their own Grandpa (there's a silly song on that very topic), but one cannot be directly a father or a son to themselves. Likewise, the only True God is not His own priest, His own sacrifice, His own temple, or His own son. Jesus can be all those things but not to himself, but to his God (John 20: 17). *How many YHWH Creator God, worthy of worship are there?* Well, this one's a bit tricky because people who are in a rush to declare Jesus the almighty God are not careful to examine his actual role in the creation. Did God create through Jesus or did Jesus create through himself? (Hebrew 1: 1-2). Who is the one God *from* whom all things come (1 Cor 8: 6)? Who is the one *through* whom they came in that same verse? Does the one who writes what is dictated receive the same distinction as the one who speaks? When a representative receives the honor of who they represent, is it on their own behalf that they receive honor? No. They receive honor to the glory of the one they represent. Likewise, Jesus is honored to the glory of the Father (Phil 2: 9-11). There is nothing special about the word worship. You merely ship to one the honor they are worth. This is why ultimately in Revalation, when all is revealed it is only the Lord God who receives credit for creating the world (4: 11). While the Lamb receives credit for getting slaughtered (5: 12). And yes while they were both honored together in verse (5: 13). So was David honored along with God in 1 Chron 29: 20 (actually the word shachah is most often translated as some conjugation of "worship", but is not here because inconsistent translators are uncomfortable with a man being worshipped - though the KJV didn't have this problem). Jesus is never identified as the Lord God in Revelation, but is always distinct from Him. Jesus is never declared to be the source of all things, but only the Father. Jesus is never declared to be the Almighty or the only True God and has to be given whatever power and authority he has. God doesn't receive power or authority from anyone, nor does He have a God, nor does the Immortal God die. So to answer your question succinctly there is only one True Creator God who is worthy of worship as the author of all creation. This is the Father, the God of Jesus through whom God created. Before they were called Christians they were called the Way (Acts 9: 2; 24: 14, 24: 22), because Jesus called himself the way... they way to the Father (John 14: 6). The ultimate goal of followers of Christ is not Christ, but the Father... this is lost on so many who declare themselves Christians.
@@jenjen3187 It looks pretty clear in the English translations, but less so in the Greek. Titles are not capitalized in Koine Greek and the text supports there actually being two gods there. One with a definite article as in "the God". The other without one. You can probably guess which God in verse 1 and 2 has the definite article. Neither The Word nor Jesus is ever simply referred to as "the God" in the Greek. Consider that Jesus refers to there being other gods (John 10:34) and that God is called the God of gods (Deut 10:17; Psalms 136:2 - He is certainly not the God of false gods).
@Troll Baggins *"don’t think too hard about it."* Hi Troll, thank you for your response. I think this is a fundamental issue with the Christian world today. We don't think hard enough on what the Bible actually says and think too hard about philosophical musings loosely based on what the Bible actually says.
So Jesus as Son is the Word that came out of mouth/mind/heart of Father God that Word as Son of Father became as God -bringing natural creation into being producing the Fathers Will in the natural by Word -does not return void -Becomes! after man was corrupted by twisting truth of Word -not hearing the sent -prophets came in the natural as a man -holy set apart flesh, no darkness -in fulness of Father to show the nature of Father -did nothing except what Father said/thought/ Willed showing making Way & even tearing the partition between man & God thru Christ as we come to Father thru the accepted holy man from the Father Christ Jesus raised up made Head of body -mind we are to be like -pattern after -follow! the more we know about the Son the more we know the Father! pure love - Light it raises us Up out of pit into His Light! so we can know Him & walk w/Him in the Light the pit is down in darkness below His Holy Mt. in confusion -no understanding our mind/ heart is where we meet/ understand Him; know Him! the more we know Him the more we can come up to His ways -get feet out of mud water of Word washes away wrong doing -lifts up to walk in heavenly places -even tho we see not but walk by faith if we walk after Him in Light we find the true Light brings us Home makes us Able to Stand & not fall! on sure foundation -Word & under Head all things are brought under head -He Word is to be in us! transforms us! connects to Father Him in you our Hope of Glory -connecting us to the Son & when u have son u have the Father very good sir! love your work - doing for Father & Son -ONE! we have to be One w/them One mind! One Spirit! in the Flesh now ours! He Word Son is doing Work in our hearts/minds
Tim, consider you are making an error of reification here by defining the word as a building… The word is a term of abstraction meaning any “locus of information “ … Paul is using this word in the context of its proper abstract definition.. he said “God is not dwelling in temple made by human hands” so how could it be a real structure? Jesus referred to his body as a temple… if it was a real building how could Jesus refer to his body as a building ? If humans don’t understand an abstraction the human cognitive response is the error of reification…
Shared and sacred space Jesus God's temple we are God's temple in Christ by His indwelling Spirit Theological and teacher preference that cause division is destroying the temple and whoever destroys God's temple God will destroy them. So much to chew on. Wonder if the passage in Corinthians about people insulting the poor at the Lord's supper and therefore getting sick and dying is encompassed in these ideas?
The Apostles made the distinction between us participating in the divine nature and being the divine nature. God is God, and we are invited - adopted - into His family, not as natural born sons and daughters who naturally belong, but as outsiders, not of the same kind, who are made a part of by grace and love.
@@dw5523 You are also invited in God's home, which is Male's I am that I am. From outsider to be His family by Male's Light Love Compassion and Pleroma of Life.
@@dw5523 Great description! Thank you! Sounds very Orthodox ("Eastern Orthodox", that is). That's one of the things I love about Tim's ministry. Although he is an Evangelicsl Protestant, so much of his teaching is right in line with Eastern Orthodox Theology! And it SHOULD be! Since he is so detailed with his understanding of Scripture, it makes sense that he would have much of the same thinking as the Early Church Fathers, and what they've handed down to the present day.
@@artdanks4846 You’re very kind. Im in the same boat as Tim, and that’s something I’ve discovered in the last few years of studying scripture and church history. The Orthodox Church has maintained a pretty even doctrinal keel through all the upsets of the western church, and that’s very telling.
@Timo Eberhard - I'll ask you again, since you hadn't answered the previous question by Chris Masterson. What is blasphemous here? We'd like to know your thoughts and what you specifically believe is blasphemous.
![35. Panic Attack [Matthew] - Tim Mackie (The Bible Project)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QNG7FWewJFE/mqdefault.jpg)
We are the temple, and Christ is the Chief Cornerstone! He is the one that holds the foundation of the Temple and keeps it standing...
Wonderful message Pastor Tim. Thank you for your time and effort studying to bring out these gems in scripture for us!
Pastor Tim, Thank you for giving to The Lord, The God Given insite , is such a blessing, what an awesome God we serve...your sister in Christ Melissa:)
I would like to hear Tim mackey's prayers at the end please
Jesus the temple in which God and humanity meet. The Lord Jesus, the sacred space where God meet us and cherish us with the same love He loves his Son.
Just totally relate to Tim's way of explaining... To the point of washing my teeth in the kitchen exactly as he said it, for the same reason he suggested it! 😂🙈😂
Good spiritual advice...
Hey man thanks for the good word! I get a lot from your sermons, I really like the combo of your wealth of knowledge and that you’re pretty down to earth and can speak plainly.
Much Love Bro
I love how Tim sees every passage of scripture as "intense." Every word, rightly divided, has life in it, and Tim doesn't take God's Word lightly! I can't help but wonder why Tim's roommate didn't remove the black noodle himself, instead of waiting a month to bring it up. (?)
Dat je wel de agenda 📅
I feel like the analogy could be more the marriage bed as holy space, the temple!
Thank you great teaching
Insightful
Malachi 3:1
Behold, I send a messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple...
the body of Jesus is the temple of the Spirit of God that came to Him at the point of baptism in water as ministered by John the Baptist (the messenger sent to prepare the way for the Lord). Hebrew 10:5 refers to a body prepared for Christ
Right on target.
So true!
6:11
Mormons have temples in this modern day, and the way that they avoid the issue mentioned by Isaiah that the Israelites were missing the point, is that with the Mormon practices in their temple is that almost everything they do is not for themselves but for other people. So, the unity and oneness that Mormons find in their temples is in serving and helping others have the opportunities to obtain the promises of the blessings of perfection, as mentioned in Hebrews 11:40. It is in a sense an act of selfless love, because of the Joy they have found and the desire that all others will have the same opportunity to find that same joy. Temples are quite literally used to unite the children of God in unity and love as one, that we all may be one, as Jesus and the Father are one (John 17:21). It is turning the hearts of the living (children) to their Fathers (dead) (Malachi 4:5-6), because they without us could not be made perfect. it is to have such great love for God and His plan that we willingly participate in bringing His plan to fruition.
Mormons believe in extra biblical teachings that Jesus did not teach. They might have temples now, but they also use them for purposes (marriages, endowments and baptisms for the dead) that have nothing in common with the temple in Jerusalem. If you are involved in Mormonism (or thinking about it) ask yourself: if I trust in the beliefs of Mormonism will it lead to eternal life or the outer darkness? Who is the better prophet Joseph Smith or Jesus? The ultimate goal of Mormonism is to attain godhood as they say Jesus did (he was not god, but by good works became god). Moreover, then once gods good Mormons will be assigned their own planet to rule over. If you want more info on Mormonism I recommend the ministry of Sandra Tanner ( an ex Mormon) at www.utlm.org/. This website is full of primary sources and citations of the writings of the Mormon early church and it's a great place to find more info. I want to help you and Mormons do not worship the God of Israel. It is not Christianity.
@@mustpetdog I think you have some very misconstrued understandings, and beliefs about what it is that Mormons actually teach, and believe. and it seems like you only know just enough to scare you into thinking Mormonism teaches things different than what the scriptures teach, or maybe you are learning what Mormonism is from people who have vested interest in tearing them down, so they purposely twist and wrest their doctrines into something they do not say or mean.
The Bible is full of teachings that Jesus did not personally teach or emphasize. May people try to say that because Mormons use extra scriptures they are not following the Bible, but Jesus Himself used extra scriptures, so that point is mute. or that Mormonism is a cult, led by a charismatic leader, teaching people to disavow mainstream logic and thought, and follow something new and unproven, and yet that very description can be given to Jesus' Christian movement as well, so again that point is mute.
And the whole Mormon temple having different practices than that of the Jewish temples, is a non-sequitur. They are operating under different levels or degrees of the priesthood. The Jewish temples operated under the authority of the Levitical priesthood of Aaron. Jesus established the Melchizedek Priesthood, which has the authority to perform more ordinances and practices, than just baptisms, in the temple (proxy work [Heb. 11:40, 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Cor. 15:29, Mal. 4:5-6], Sealings [Matthew 16:17-19], Healing [Mat. 10:1, James 5:14-16, Acts 28:8]. The issue is that those who had this Melchizedek priesthood died off or more likely were killed all within that next 30-50 years. but the Melchizedek priesthood did not continue past about 70 Ad when Jerusalem was overthrown by Rome. That is for sure. The Apostles showed the manner in which the Melchizedek priesthood and their calling of new apostles is to be done in Acts 1:15-26. It says that the others had to be there and since many were killed off so quickly it would have been impossible for the others to have all been together to call and ordain others to the Melchizedek priesthood after Paul Just 14 years after Christ's death.
We don’t have records of the deaths of all the Apostles, but we do know that all but John the Beloved died and, after a time, ceased to be replaced. The keys and authority of the holy priesthood were lost with the deaths of the Church leaders. Without this authority, no new revelation, doctrine, or scripture could come. The Apostles were killed during a time when the entire Church was being persecuted. Nero, a Roman emperor, was the first to make laws to exterminate Christians, in about A.D. 65. Under his reign, thousands were cruelly killed. A second round of persecutions began in about A.D. 93 under Emperor Domitian. Succeeding emperors continued torturing and killing Christians. As a result of these persecutions, thousands of Christians were martyred. Many others apostatized.
The point is that it makes perfect sense that temple practices done under a higher authority or higher Melchizedek Priesthood would not be included or part of the practices done under the lesser authority, or lesser Aaronic/ Levitical priesthood. And that is why you see scriptures in the new testament that do not make sense in the old Testament context. Jesus is restoring the Mechizedek Priesthood and it's practices back to the Earth, and those holding the Levitical priesthood (phisees) are threatened, and don't understand why what they have isn't all there is or isn't good enough. Things like being ordained and given authority to do things other than animal sacrifices, which is just a symbolic ritual about baptism which is what the Levitical (Aaronic) priesthood had the authority to do all through the time of Christ, and still has the authority to perform in Mormonism today. It is the higher Priesthood that was lost at the time of the sons of Israel. those sons were given the Melchizedek priesthood from Jacob, who got it from Isaac, who got is from Abraham, who got it from Melchizedek. But, in Numbers 8:10 it only says that the sons of Israel laid hands on the sons of Levi to give them their priesthood (lesser priesthood). Moses and His brother Aaron, being descendants of Levi, were also given the same lesser priesthood which carried on through the time of Christ. Christ Himself recognized that those Jewish priests of His day held the lesser priesthood of Aaron, stating, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you." (Mat. 23:2-3). And yet those very same Pharisees understood that Jesus was using an authority and level of the priesthood that they themselves did not recognize (Melchizedek priesthood)(Mat.21:23-27).
I don't know that we could find a Mormon that would agree that Jesus is not God, only that Jesus and the Father are not the same person. That doesn't disqualify Jesus from being God. However I will say that there are passages that say that Jesus had to grow in favor of God, and grow in God's grace. obviously those are referring to the Father's favor and grace, because Jesus is for all intents and purposes God, but the point is that scripture does support the doctrine that Jesus, even being God, still had to do things and become something more than He was to gain more of the Father's grace and favor. So I see no contradiction with Mormonism and scripture on this topic, only contradiction with Mormonism and your interpretation of doctrine.
It is an odd question to ask one's self, if "I trust in the beliefs of Mormonism will it lead to eternal life or the outer darkness?" especially when according to Mormon doctrine it is Mormonism alone that leads to "eternal life" and all the other mainstream Christian religions are teaching doctrines that lead to a lesser degree of inheritance and glory in Heaven. Outer darkness in Mormonism isn't really a thing anyone needs to be overly worried about going to, since it is reserved for only those sons of Perdition that betray and openly make covenants with Satan, to fight against God, will receive. like Cain and Judas did. not to mention the fact that to become a son of perdition one has to have undeniable knowledge of the divinity of Christ and the existence of God, and then deny that knowledge, and very few people in the world have ever had that undeniable knowledge, let alone had it and then went against it.
I don't know what you define Christianity as, but if Christianity is a belief that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of the living God, come to Earth in the flesh to sacrifice Himself and redeem all who are fallen; to believe that we should act and follow His teachings and example; Then I can not find a single teaching or practice within Mormonism that says they are not Christians. I'm not sure where you got your info from but it seems very biased and twisted. maybe you just got it from very disgruntled and angry people hell bent on tearing others down. IDK, but it doesn't seem to be accurate.
I totally LOVE and am so grateful for Tim's ministry! But, I have to completely disagree with him at 14:31. "Don't allow theological differences to rip apart your churches" is actually contrary to Scripture. 1 Cor. 11:19 specifically says "For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you." The point being that the Church MUST teach correct teachings, doctrine, theology, etc, based on Scripture. When there are differences from that, it MUST be confronted and dealt with. Error cannot be permitted or the Gospel will be watered down.
Thank u brother for correcting that. 😊🙏
@@haroldcabil12 And thank YOU! I normally would NEVER "argue" any point that Tim has to say, as he has been SOOOO very helpful to me and his ministry is soooo amazing!! I don't like like stirring up any conflict at all, especially eith a brother that is so RIGHT ON, practically all the time! I have great admiration for him and the Godly work he does. But this particular point he said just raised an important red flag for me. Thank you for your feedback!
quick thought - have to major on the major, minor on the minors. If some person disagrees, there are other churches they may attend. Disunity is not from the father, that's what Ephesians is all about. Anyway, we pastor at an 'international church' with people from many theological backgrounds. There absolutely are theological disagreements as people are from many backgrounds, and those will not rip apart our church, as we major on the majors - Triune God, divinity of Christ, etc.
“temple” (naos) means “locus of information”…
Oh, so it's like living with my husband
Great job, Tim. Our holy bathroom space was a great illustration and I really like how you don't just have an intellectual discussion about being God's temple, but you also challenge members in the audience to bring their sexuality in line with God's plan. My question is doesn't Jesus being God's temple imply that he himself is not the Almighty God. It seems that it doesn't make much sense to discuss God being His own temple, amongst other things...
Nicodemus Kathoplizo,
Why do you think I would be confusing a figure that is in the Bible with a figure who is not. I just don't see the Trinity in the Bible let alone the second person of it. Further, I just can't see how Jesus is truly God, when he is described as the Image of God (The image of a thing is never that same thing), describes himself as God's temple (a temple of God is not God), and he specifically excluded himself in the same breath he declared the Father to be the only true God. (John 17:1-3).
I think there is a fundamental confusion caused by many Christians overlooking the fact that Jesus himself proclaims that there are other beings who are not the only true God, yet who are never the less are called gods (an individual among them would be a god) by the only true God, when he was defending himself against charges of blasphemy (John 10:34-36). It turns out that the only true God, not only calls them gods, but sons of the Most High (Ps 82:6) who will die like men. Which is interesting, since the one Jesus identifies as the only true God never dies like a man... or is called the son of anyone.
This may seem absurd because of the way we think of the word "god" when used in the Bible. We think the word God describes a class of being or its essence. Instead it would better match the scriptural evidence to see the word "god" as describing a title of a role embodied by someone. Therefore beings other than the one true God can justifiably be called gods. Just like how a being who is not the only one Father (Matthew 23:9) can nevertheless properly be called a father by God (Gen 17:5)
Notice that Jesus in the "form" of god (The Greek word lacks the definite article that is associated with The God and doesn't distinguish the word with capitalizatios) is contrasted with himself in the form of a bondservant (Philippians 2:6-7 there the Greek word for form is the same for god and bondservant, but different from the word form in verse 8). There is no bondservant being, but a bondservant role. Jesus being a God being wasn't being contrast with him being a servant being, but his God role, he emptied himself of, is being contrast with his servant role he took on.
Logically speaking, there's nothing that prevents the almighty God from exalting whatever being he pleases and delegating whatever power and authority he pleases - even to participate in the creation Hebrews 1:1-2. Jesus himself points out that his authority is not derived from himself but that it was given to him (Matthew 28:18). He is not the ultimate source of all authority but only the only true God is.
Nicodemus Kathoplizo,
*In most instances above you are focusing solely on Jesus humanity (he was truly human) and ignoring his divinity.*
Not at all, I affirm his divinity, just not as as the Almighty Divinity.. Just as the Bible affirms him not as the Almighty.
*Image of God ('exact representation') - can the finite be the exact representation of the infinite?* Well, yes, in the same way that a 2-D picture can exactly represent the image of a 3-D person. Exact representative doesn't mean exact copy. It just means that one presents exactly as purposed whatever aspect of the original they're meant to (will, character, plan, favor, etc.)
*God's Temple - Jesus is described as temple, sacrifice and priest so your exclusive analogy (temple means not God) breaks down (as he fills many roles).*
Not at all, but your examples further confirm my point which is not that Jesus can't have multiple roles. That would be silly to say. He just can't simultaneously have multiple roles that mutually exclude each other. One can be both a father and a son at the same time. Perhaps one can be their own Grandpa (there's a silly song on that very topic), but one cannot be directly a father or a son to themselves. Likewise, the only True God is not His own priest, His own sacrifice, His own temple, or His own son. Jesus can be all those things but not to himself, but to his God (John 20: 17).
*How many YHWH Creator God, worthy of worship are there?*
Well, this one's a bit tricky because people who are in a rush to declare Jesus the almighty God are not careful to examine his actual role in the creation. Did God create through Jesus or did Jesus create through himself? (Hebrew 1: 1-2). Who is the one God *from* whom all things come (1 Cor 8: 6)? Who is the one *through* whom they came in that same verse? Does the one who writes what is dictated receive the same distinction as the one who speaks? When a representative receives the honor of who they represent, is it on their own behalf that they receive honor? No. They receive honor to the glory of the one they represent. Likewise, Jesus is honored to the glory of the Father (Phil 2: 9-11). There is nothing special about the word worship. You merely ship to one the honor they are worth. This is why ultimately in Revalation, when all is revealed it is only the Lord God who receives credit for creating the world (4: 11). While the Lamb receives credit for getting slaughtered (5: 12). And yes while they were both honored together in verse (5: 13). So was David honored along with God in 1 Chron 29: 20 (actually the word shachah is most often translated as some conjugation of "worship", but is not here because inconsistent translators are uncomfortable with a man being worshipped - though the KJV didn't have this problem). Jesus is never identified as the Lord God in Revelation, but is always distinct from Him. Jesus is never declared to be the source of all things, but only the Father. Jesus is never declared to be the Almighty or the only True God and has to be given whatever power and authority he has. God doesn't receive power or authority from anyone, nor does He have a God, nor does the Immortal God die. So to answer your question succinctly there is only one True Creator God who is worthy of worship as the author of all creation. This is the Father, the God of Jesus through whom God created.
Before they were called Christians they were called the Way (Acts 9: 2; 24: 14, 24: 22), because Jesus called himself the way... they way to the Father (John 14: 6). The ultimate goal of followers of Christ is not Christ, but the Father... this is lost on so many who declare themselves Christians.
@@austin3789 The Word was God...and the Word became flesh...it's pretty clear.
@@jenjen3187 It looks pretty clear in the English translations, but less so in the Greek. Titles are not capitalized in Koine Greek and the text supports there actually being two gods there. One with a definite article as in "the God". The other without one. You can probably guess which God in verse 1 and 2 has the definite article. Neither The Word nor Jesus is ever simply referred to as "the God" in the Greek. Consider that Jesus refers to there being other gods (John 10:34) and that God is called the God of gods (Deut 10:17; Psalms 136:2 - He is certainly not the God of false gods).
@Troll Baggins *"don’t think too hard about it."* Hi Troll, thank you for your response. I think this is a fundamental issue with the Christian world today. We don't think hard enough on what the Bible actually says and think too hard about philosophical musings loosely based on what the Bible actually says.
So Jesus as Son is the Word that came out of mouth/mind/heart of Father God
that Word as Son of Father became as God -bringing natural creation into being
producing the Fathers Will in the natural by Word -does not return void -Becomes!
after man was corrupted by twisting truth of Word -not hearing the sent -prophets
came in the natural as a man -holy set apart flesh, no darkness -in fulness of Father
to show the nature of Father -did nothing except what Father said/thought/ Willed
showing making Way & even tearing the partition between man & God thru Christ
as we come to Father thru the accepted holy man from the Father Christ Jesus
raised up made Head of body -mind we are to be like -pattern after -follow!
the more we know about the Son the more we know the Father! pure love - Light
it raises us Up out of pit into His Light! so we can know Him & walk w/Him in the Light
the pit is down in darkness below His Holy Mt. in confusion -no understanding
our mind/ heart is where we meet/ understand Him; know Him!
the more we know Him the more we can come up to His ways -get feet out of mud
water of Word washes away wrong doing -lifts up to walk in heavenly places
-even tho we see not but walk by faith if we walk after Him in Light we find the true Light
brings us Home makes us Able to Stand & not fall! on sure foundation -Word & under Head
all things are brought under head -He Word is to be in us! transforms us! connects to Father
Him in you our Hope of Glory -connecting us to the Son & when u have son u have the Father
very good sir! love your work - doing for Father & Son -ONE! we have to be One w/them
One mind! One Spirit! in the Flesh now ours! He Word Son is doing Work in our hearts/minds
I’m moving my toothbrush to the kitchen.
Tim, consider you are making an error of reification here by defining the word as a building… The word is a term of abstraction meaning any “locus of information “ … Paul is using this word in the context of its proper abstract definition.. he said “God is not dwelling in temple made by human hands” so how could it be a real structure? Jesus referred to his body as a temple… if it was a real building how could Jesus refer to his body as a building ? If humans don’t understand an abstraction the human cognitive response is the error of reification…
Shared and sacred space
Jesus God's temple we are God's temple in Christ by His indwelling Spirit
Theological and teacher preference that cause division is destroying the temple and whoever destroys God's temple God will destroy them.
So much to chew on.
Wonder if the passage in Corinthians about people insulting the poor at the Lord's supper and therefore getting sick and dying is encompassed in these ideas?
Daim Untamed I think you are right. Way to integrate scripture!
Hi, Tim. When you say WORD~ SON~GOD~. Aren't you that same One? That same inner you is just the WORD of the beginning! Be nice Temple. Try.
The Apostles made the distinction between us participating in the divine nature and being the divine nature. God is God, and we are invited - adopted - into His family, not as natural born sons and daughters who naturally belong, but as outsiders, not of the same kind, who are made a part of by grace and love.
@@dw5523 You are also invited in God's home, which is Male's I am that I am. From outsider to be His family by Male's Light Love Compassion and Pleroma of Life.
@@dw5523 God is that I am that I am.
When any one put nothing before his Me, Then He shall digest the flesh and blood of Jesus.
@@dw5523 Great description! Thank you! Sounds very Orthodox ("Eastern Orthodox", that is). That's one of the things I love about Tim's ministry. Although he is an Evangelicsl Protestant, so much of his teaching is right in line with Eastern Orthodox Theology! And it SHOULD be! Since he is so detailed with his understanding of Scripture, it makes sense that he would have much of the same thinking as the Early Church Fathers, and what they've handed down to the present day.
@@artdanks4846 You’re very kind. Im in the same boat as Tim, and that’s something I’ve discovered in the last few years of studying scripture and church history. The Orthodox Church has maintained a pretty even doctrinal keel through all the upsets of the western church, and that’s very telling.
Blasphemy, blasphemy, blasphemy... You know where that ends, right?
What is blasphemous here?
@Timo Eberhard - I'll ask you again, since you hadn't answered the previous question by Chris Masterson. What is blasphemous here? We'd like to know your thoughts and what you specifically believe is blasphemous.