Thinking of it, it's really uncommon with men / boys to fully exclude someone. Sometimes someone ends at the bottom of the hierarchy, but they have still their place in a group. And group membership usually is not a question: you stick together, whatever may happen. But, having attended a girls class (20ish girls and another dude besides me), exclusion was very common. And pretty brutal, if I dare say. Must be some archaic explanation. As a team that is out to hunt mammoths everyone has his place and you certainly don't leave someone behind, if not necessary.
I know exclusion from men as well. I feel, here is a narrative being constructed that is very inaccurate. I believe its a perception bias. We see certain bullying tactics but we overlook the aggressiveness of girls and overlook passive aggressiveness of boys only to keep that narrative in our heads alive. But looking closely every gender uses all bullying tactics.
@@MZBS639 I disagree. I believe it’s not as organised as boys do aggression like this, and women do aggression like that. It’s more of a spectrum, where both polar manifestations of aggression present in both sexes. You have some boys that will rely more heavily on passive aggression, and you have some girls that rely more heavily on direct aggression. However this is still nested inside a broader pattern that that boys lean more towards direct aggression and girls lean more towards passive aggression. And I’m saying that as a boy who dealt with exclusion in my all-boys school as a small child. It’s my experience that the attempts to move attention away from female passive aggression, is in-and-of itself, a covert tactic of the antisocial female. Firstly it is sleight of hand, keeping attention away from what’s really happening, allowing the behaviour to occur in the shadows, which is then more effective when it’s acted on because it occurs in a vacuum of conscious awareness. Secondly it can dissuade people from looking into the shadows, by disarming them from the inside with shame, by linking such enquiries to misogyny. No matter the accusations thrown around society, some of us know the truth because we have grown up with mothers who used these covert tactics on us. If you look in the shadows, your eyes will eventually adjust to the dark.
@@ponkanzestproductions Can we talk about "Mansplaining" or how an explanation of 'female bullying', might be less credible coming from a Male rather than a Female? For one thing, a female might be more inclined to explain WHY female bullying tends to be less direct (and violent) than that of males, and that's because girls and boys are still raised with different expectations. While society actively discourages open expressions of anger and aggression from females, it all but celebrates it in men..I'm sorry, but it should be obvious: When people are treated differently, they act differently.
@@naryaquid Hey, I agree with you! Honestly this is just a harmless comment from my experience, I didn't really get into the nuance of internalized misogyny in my comment. I've been both the bullied fat nerd girl and the queen bee, so I just think it's a spot on impression of behavior I experienced and I instigated.. I haven't watched THIS specific video of Dr. K but from what I know about him, he isn't shy with connecting societal needs and social expectations from human behavior, so maybe he can give it a try (or already did in the longer version of this video). Plus, as a psychiatrist, I think he went more of a "descriptive approach" rather than "a critical and intersectional approach" of the queen bee experience that resonated with me, but you are right that it might not resonate with others so they do not feel represented by what he said. It would be lovely to have him welcome a woman psychiatrist too in a deeper discussion.
@@naryaquid -"might be less credible coming from a Male rather than a Female" -How do you unironically use the word "mansplaining" to discredit a clinical psychologist with a doctorate in psychology explaining in layman's terms the overwhelming findings in the literature, many of the studies being run or assisted by women... - "girls and boys are still raised with different expectations....While society actively discourages open expressions of anger and aggression from females, it all but celebrates it in men" , and then in the same breath start "womansplaining" a dumbed down, uncited, generalized categorical prescription on the shaping of male behavior, that isn't really a claim at all but a conclusion drawn from one demographic's aggregate behavior being divergent, by essence, relative from another demographics aggregate social behavior, but doesn't include any claims supporting this blanket statement assertion. Do you not see how many contradictions are in every single sentence of your comment lmfaoo.
@@getmotivated1707 This is how my brother in law tried to bully me before I cut him out of my life. It's far more covert, which is why he used it. I'd say that is the preferred style of bullying by females, but is not exclusive to them.
I once got publicly humiliated at a house party back in highschool. First time I ever asked a girl out was a disaster, but she took it as an opportunity to "have some fun". She and her friend started a game of "hey so-and-so is looking for you". Each one kept telling me that the other was looking for me whenever they saw me. This went on back and forth more than 5 times and it turned out they were planning on playing this horrible mind game on me for months. At the time I knew what they were doing but I just did not know how to deal with it. In the end I left the party early and ended up missing out on a photo of everyone gathered there. I basically suffered every man's worst nightmare when it comes to asking women out on dates.
He's spot on. Ignoring, silent treatment, spreading rumors, exclusion, meaningful glances, this is my entire middle and high school experience. It's a learned behavior, passed down through the generations. It takes a strong personality to stand up and say, I'm not going to be a part of this anymore.
Yes, thank you for pointing it out that it is learned. Generally if you have a group of like minded people who are well adjusted from childhood, you don't see this kind of drama too often.
My mom and sister do this, and bring their friends along. When I get into the room I can tell they just finished gossiping about me ugggg I'm the youngest too, I don't understand why they do it
I had a 'friend' like that once. She hit on my boyfriend and when l confronted her about it, accused me of being paranoid and posessive. She said that l should 'allow' him to do what he wanted and to stop being so controlling. I watched her do the same thing to other women, too. She would particularly target well-bonded couples.
I’m impressed you are aware of your friend doing that. I really am.. that’s awesome. I’m just wondering how far down the road you’ve actually traveled or if you just stopped there after that realization about your one friend who does this , instead of realizing that type of stuff is baked into all of your DNA?
@@Theresa-Lottodo a real friend would have said "Holy crap I'm so sorry. That's absolutely not what I'd intended. Let's talk about this and see how we move forward."
So let me guess, she wasn't in a relationship with anyone herself and wasn't looking for anything serious... wanting to enlarge the playfield for herself is what it is.
It's a psychological kind of bullying. I remember that even years after I left the school where I was bullied most (I am a girl), anytime people around me in public laughed I immediately assumed they must be laughing at me. People I didn't even know. Because it was a common occurrence for me to be walking in passing period to my next class and I passed a group of girls and they all laugh and pointed and whispered. I didn't even know some of them. On the last day of school, one girl I barely ever talked to revealed to me that she felt bad people spread such mean rumors about me because I am actually a very nice person. That was the first time I had become aware that people had been spreading rumors about me for the past two years of middle school. It took me conditioning myself out of that mindset after I no longer dealt with that issue every day, because we moved, to be able to think that everyone wasn't constantly laughing at me.
I thought I was the only one with that problem. Every time someone laughed I also get this immediate thought that they're laughing at me, but I've managed to mostly work through it now. I did get bullied, but I'm a male and got bullied mostly through the male/boy way at school - with direct threats, insults and occasional punches. Was the youngest on my block, so the weakest. Boys also spread rumours though.
@@LibertarianGearhead it’s refreshing to hear that a male has experienced something similar. I was bullied in a very feminine style by a small group of boys throughout elementary school. They would spread rumors and constantly make it known that they would exclude me. Because it went on for years, it took me well into highschool to get over thinking that anyone who was laughing was laughing at me.
The bully is often soooo nice to people that is not their bullying target - if you try to explain to those people about getting bullied they will say you are misreading the bully’s behaviour, you are being over sensitive and overreacting or they will flat out not believe you. You end up getting gaslit by the other people who only ever see the super nice side of the bully. So much worse if you are neurodivergent and doubt yourself (you gaslight yourself too). Worse case - the other people will actively stand up for the bully and think you’re a weirdo or an asshole. That’s how the ostracising happens 😩
Don't forget backhanded compliments. Those are often invisible to men or even other women of different generations. Edit: Even people from different social bubbles.
@@derBene My guess is stuff like "That dress is so brave. I could never wear that" or "I admire the fact that you don't care about how you look" would qualify. Basically stuff that sounds like a compliment, but they actually never say that you look good or wear that well, and in fact are implying the opposite.
@@derBene "Oh this (clothing item) is so vintage, you must have searched for it for so long!" (ie.: it's old, out of style) "I admire you. I could never even imagine wearing something like this to school/work." (ie.: your clothing doesn't fit in) It could be about pretty much anything, though. Looks, property, choices... And always sounds innocent on the surface (so when they are caught, they can pretend being oblivious and meaning well). Its insidious and goes under the radar since it's easily confused with almost identical well-meaning comments actual friends would give.
@@derBene”you look so good for your age I’d have never guessed you were x years old” or (generally to a POC or immigrant): “wow you are so articulate I’m impressed!”
Indirect as hell. An old boss of mine was 🌸lovely🌸 to everyone else… even me, in front of everyone. Behind closed doors she spoke to me like a naughty child, withheld critical info about tasks and was never happy with my work. The worst thing is you can’t say anything because nobody will believe you.
This happened to me too. It gave me ptsd. It’s such a difficult experience to overcome. People like this enjoy being cruel. It’s so painful and I still struggle on bad days to not be overwhelmed with a deep, dark sadness knowing that this is what people are lol. We’re never going to be better :(
@ sorry to hear. I think people like that are in the minority though. They don’t define the rest of humanity. If we assume everyone is just as bad, we’ll be miserable… and then they win. But nothing pisses bullies off more than ..you being happy.
@@Celeste-in-Oz That's a stupid law. I would try to fight it if I were you. "Freedom of the Press" is in our constitution in the US and it keeps us safe from people in power doing unjust things to us.
Female bullying happens a lot in the healthfield. As a CNA for the 6 years, no matter where I work doctors, nurses, certified nurse assistants, and other healthcare workers bully. I'm so sick of it.
I'm in nursing school...I've worked CNA, as the only male in a on that floor- i got fed up with it and quit. House Sup- told me to quit, when I asked for a floor where I'm not out numbered. I quit 3 days later. Every clinical rotation and sim lab, there is always one at the least who is obvious- only to me though, by purposely ignoring me and not passing my assignment down the line-it stops in front 9f her, and she won't touch it...I had to tell her, thats not your paper...0ass it down. I don't understand WHY they do this to me, let alone ANYONE ELSE?I am a grown man, 50 years old and these little baby girls are messing with me like that...its pathetic- and they are gonna provide care to old men and women- we know what thst entails...I've got a 30 year Icu nurse roommate- i had to tell her to stop with the stories- i was scared thinking about the acuity I will be working with- now its more like I'm scared of the people I will be having to work around😢
I have been horrifically bullied in the healthcare field, and it got so bad I developed PTSD from my time as a CNA. I ended up in a psychiatric hospital from how bad it got after I was assaulted by a coworker. It didn't matter where I went, the toxicity followed. I'm sorry this happened to you, no workplace deserves to be like this. We should all feel safe to come to work. We don't all have to like each other, but we should have to respect each other. Some of these people didn't get that memo...
And yet, when this behavior directly effects patient outcomes, *especially* female patients, many of you will join in the bullying and gaslight us; claiming that this just simply isn’t true and “not all nurses” etc. etc. But I’m sure you’re “one of the good ones”. Only person here that brought up patient safety and victimization was the 50 year old man. No surprises there.
And yet, when this behavior directly effects patient outcomes, *especially* female patients, and those patients speak up, many of you will join in the bullying and gaslight us. Claiming that this just simply isn’t true and “not all nurses”, patronizing tones and “I’m sorry you _feel_ that way”, “Sorry for whatever _you’ve_ been through, sweety, BUT-“ etc. etc. But I’m sure you’re “one of the good ones”. Actions speak louder than words. Only person here that brought up patient safety and victimization was the 50 year old man. No surprises there.
What is problematic about this type of bullying is that it is not illegal and is in the greyzone of what is punishable, compared to punching someone in the face which is viewed as bad no matter the circumstance. So you have no way of truly retaliating unless you too want to play this game. It happens in work and even in politics all the time.
Exactly, I always say the physicality of things are just very easy to see and police. Nobody ever even questions any of this or thinks about it. There are so many things you can do that are legal that can have just as devastating consequences while going unnoticed.
@@PeepoFrog It does seem that any escalation is outside the bounds of what is considered acceptable, which backs people into a corner who suffer this kind of abuse.
That's what is so mindfucking about it too, it's so hard to even explain or pinpoint and it's done in such a way that would make YOU look like a weirdo for being upset about. The kind where the person tells you it's just in your head.
Once I was studying pedagogy, and we were reading about bullying, I asked about the noble art of freezing out, and our lecturer explained that almost no research was done on that subject, or even non physical bullying was pretty neglected. As a woman my jaw just dropped, since in my experience that is what most bullying consists of. And tons of people excuse it.
A theory could be that researching it means to dig into traditional female dominated workplaces like the health service an education system. And that means airing something akin to the law of omertà. Now it can be a more simple answer and it's that nobody did care. I'm a teacher and it's hard to work around female bullying between students. I'm too I'm a woman who has been bullied and it's hard to truly spot it until it is too late. Also I'm always worried I would made it worse for the bullied girl.😢
The reason it's not researched is simple - it would involve challenging feminism and challenging and holding women accountable in particular. Rather than just regurgitating tired tropes about women being the "fairer" sex. We don't do that as a society it seems. The real fairer sex is denigrated and hated while the casually abusive sex is constantly excused
This is a big reason why I make an effort to confront any insults or just things that other students are uncomfortable with in a classroom. Many times I’ve found that children are fairly malleable and will adopt your values if you explain them well. That is, however, often not enough when the bullying has been occurring over a series of years.
honestly i think it’s a similar reason as to why there aren’t enough (if any) research studies on how medicines affect women differently, and how women have different markers/indicators for certain diseases or conditions like heart attacks: EVERYTHING that has been studied until recently has been done so by men. for whatever reason, there was no forethought to include women as trial subjects or our psychology/physiology data as relevant or worth considering separately. we don’t even know what we don’t know about the totality of the human condition because HALF of the population has been left out of the sample group. 🤦🏾♀️
@doctorberkowitzthere are a lot of subtle body language signs, tone of voice. Super passive aggression, they intentionally try to get you mentally confused.
No. Because there's traces that linger on your insecurities and once you were made to think the problem is you it's hard to get out of it. You can but it takes time and therapy.
This is especially true and happens all the time in workplaces. Instead of helping each other, women push each other under the bus all the time, as if there was a place for just “one woman” in the company/department. They can be worse than men in the workplace and no one talks about it. This needs to be acknowledged.
The way those women treat male and female co-workers is so different you can't even say anything to your superiors. They just won't believe you because "she is so nice!"
I have had this done to me by adult women in the workplace and as a child by a girl who was the"queen bee." These women are taught this behavior early in their lives by women relatives and/or piers. It is extremely damaging as the aim of this behavior is to outcast, undermine, and destroy the psyche of the person that it's aimed at. I steer clear of woman's groups because of this.
Yes I only really have one-on-one friendships, I find it way to difficult to be friends in groups. Far too much btchy behaviour and cold war tactics against people in the group by others in the group. I steer clear of it, if they wanna be your friend you usually find out one-on-one if they like you or if they have a gripe with you by their behaviour towards you, not their behaviour towards others about you. Group situations are just too much for me.
@@seelogic9845I’m the same and since I’ve become very deaf, even though I wear hearing aids I still prefer to have a one to one conversation with a friend.
@michaelkrull3331 if you are literally thinking it's "taught" I can see why you might think that. But keep in mind modeling behavior is also a teaching mechanism. Kids observe their parents behavior and mimic it to some extent. But it would also be true to say in some cases that some parents don't want to cope with their children's difficult behavior and choose to ignore it.
Sadly my daughter is already experiencing this stuff from girls her age and she’s only 12. When she was 9 and in ballet class she dealt with it then too. Girls learn this stuff at a very young age but I’m trying to teach my daughter what a real friend looks like and to move on from these types of girls.
Now, let's add Autism to this bullying business. Can you please make a video apond how bad it is when these girls or "regular people ' bullying the Autistic folks, with the same tactics. I know that it is not nice, but cruel. I have been there as the victim. Now as a grown up it doesn't always get better. Our circle is so much smaller. Then we feel our hands tied up so much worse than ever. When we know our children are going thru it at a much bigger scale because of social media. Are we as society ever going to stop being cruel at crushing down others⁉️
Kuddos for teaching your daughter on what to look for in real friends! It is extremely sad for me someone who is in her thirties to see women still caught up in the same “friendenemy” pattern way into adulthood.
I have a sister that does this to me and funnily enough she's an RN, lol. Very passive aggressive and so very entitled.Makes sure I am watching her when she is talking to other people as if she is whispering.The last few years has created a bigger type of monster- those in the medical field, who's egos were overinflated. I'm an ex nurse, now Disability Carer, and I chose to jump ship in Oct 21. I was there to care for my patient's health, not to play "Lets follow the Leader without questioning."😢
Yes, especially when you have no idea what the rumour is. Sometimes everybody just starts excluding you and you have no idea why, what was said to be able to dispel it. Brutal.
@@elaizakaguya4631 bullying is bullying, it's all bad. I'm sure if you ask a boy who was beaten up regularly by a bully he will tell you there was psychological damage done. Yea the bruises healed but his self esteem is non existent. Bullying is the worst thing that can happen to a person regardless of the methods
@elaizkaguy The truth eventually comes out, it's just a matter of time. A good maturity and consciousness test though, so you know the depth of character of the people that surround you, and how far you can really trust them
There IS such a thing as female toxicity and this is exactly what he is talking about. I get so tired of other women blatantly ignoring female bullying in the guise of false feminism. True feminism is impossible until this elephant in the room is addressed.
I went through this in high school and then in my past career. I was used to it by then and it didn’t bother me. My supervisor came to me and asked me if I wanted to file a complaint because she heard the nasty rumors about me. I laughed and told her it was nothing in comparison to high school. I was prepared. I ignored the rumors and when someone would ask me if the rumors were true I would tell them yes and say that’s what you want to believe anyway. My introversion helped because I never responded just ignored it. Years later a few of the ladies apologized to me and admitted being jealous. I couldn’t believe it. They said they felt bad because I was so kind.
I only got bullied by boys at school, so now I'm experiencing bullying by women for the first time in my 30's at work lol Exclusion, yes, but frequently also trying to play the victim and paint me and other co-worker as the aggressors if we stand up for ourselves. It is very fascinating. She once said something to our boss that almost got another woman fired, and when said woman blocked her online, she cried and tried to make everyone pity HER because blocking her was so mean!
This really helps me to define what exactly it was that a former female boss did to me. I worked with college students as a close advisor, not just helping choose classes, but overcoming barriers and such. Every idea I came up with, she denied me the opportunity to commit, and shortly later would have someone else do it. She wouldn't let me directly communicate with the students (wtf) but it had to go through her office. She would avoid answering questions that needed addressed. I knew she was a bully, but had a hard time explaining it.
As a teenager I recognized this and avoided those girls. The problem is then you end up alone because so many girls do this or are friends with somebody who does it. It felt easier to friend guys because they were so obvious or out with their drama or nonsense so it felt easier to see when they have a problem with you or not.
This hit a cord. I self isolated from girls like this when I was in high school. Made more guy friends because they're relaxed and nice to be around instead of the anxiousness of being around the drama queens. Growing up, I learned to pick my closest friends (no matter if they were boys or girls). The smaller your circle the better.
I was also exposed to this behavior growing up as a female. My option was to stay true to who I was and avoid as much as possible these situations. I did make friends who also were trying to keep to themselves. The chief bully (in my opinion) came up to me and expressed admiration "for my behavior"toward the end of high school. It's not impossible, but it is a difficult choice.
It is actually despicable. I encountered this at my last job. We (two FULLY GROWN adult women) had to work in the same office room and she somehow got her knickers in a twist about me and convinced an ENTIRE OFFICE of adults to literally give me the silent treatment. We all ate lunch together and they would talk and laugh and the minute i chimed in, everyone went silent. When i finally confronted her about it her response was "oh, haha..idk" like ma'am. Just say you have a problem with me and we dont have to interact. She tried to get me fired every chance she got but i, ya know, did my job and worked hard, so they didnt have a real reason. Truly unreal.
@@elisarambo1 Wao, I'm just speechless reading about this. Can't believe grown ups still act like this... And at work!! And in the Health Field where it is supposed to be the place where people take a better care of each other (or at least that's how I pictured it would be 🙄 Anyways.. I just hope you work now in a way better environment PS: I would've loved being your bestie then, and working with you, just to show them how people should really be treated (with kindness and love of course) They would've probably git me fired real quick. But at least I would've like being by your side then when everyone were such mean people (to show them you weren't alone 🥺) I hope you have good friends with you, and live a beautiful life ❤️
lmao, I would turn that around on them and start talking incessantly. If you're going to be quiet when I talk it must be because you're a captivated audience listening intently to my every word! 🤣
Sounds like a lot of low-key racists I've had the misfortune of having to be around throughout my life... they never really grow up. And it's hard to call them out... and yet, they have no real reason to not like me from day one.
Had the same thing happen to me in a govt job many decades ago when I was young. My ‘boss’ (really only my supervisor) was mad when I was friendly with someone she didn’t like in the same office. Suddenly she stopped talking to me and wouldn’t give me any more jobs to do and was waiting for me to do nothing and get fired, I guess?!?! I went to her boss and told him what was happening. I think that really surprised her. She stopped acting like that. This was a very nice woman too. It was a shocking situation for a young girl girl as I was
I got the Solution for this Issue. Ignore them back and dont show them any emotions. They will stop if they dont get any Emotions back from their bullying. They will try to get into your head but stay cold as ice and they will stop and will search for another victim. The key is not to respond emotional to their actions!
Wow, this puts the exclusion I faced all throughout childhood into a different perspective! Turns out my shyness, social awkwardness, being different (then-unknown neurodivergent), and not knowing how to interact and fit in with people (especially fellow females), despite repeated efforts, may have been only half of the equation. The other half being that they weren't just clique-ish, already established, tightly knit friend groups, they were bullies, deliberately shunning and excluding and quietly whispering to each other behind your back. This is quite a revelation and makes a lot of things make a lot more sense. This is gonna take some processing, but feels like it could be healing. Thank you, Dr. K!🥲
As a guy, bullying may be different, but I saw many times how my sister was treated by her classmates. Truly toxic behavior. Sorry you went through that
Experienced it too, like many others here. You are definitely not alone ❤️🍀 it’s heartbreaking how many people suffer. I love this community and how supportive it is. I wish there had been a ‘Dr. K’ when I was in school 😐-it might have saved me years of self-doubt. But even though it feels late to have this revelation- it’s never too late to start healing and rebuilding trust in ourselves. Wishing you -and everyone else -strength on your journey❤
Its so sad too because a lot of people will say you're a red flag if you don't have friends or many other things that come with the ramifications of being neurodivergent or if we simply choose to value ourselves more than trying to fit in / people please a group of bullies.
I had a female bully at work. She was super passive-aggressive with it. We got along very well, until I called her out on something she said about me behind my back, and she instantly spread rumors about me. Horrible, two-faced, and toxic person.
This kind of bullying is really harmful to female friendships too. So many times I've heard a niece or someone younger explain to me how they think their friend is mad at them and doing things to "ruin their life". But sometimes it turns out they're wrong. Their friend *wasn't* trying to bully or hurt them - they were just paranoid and/or misinterpreting things and they end up hurting their friend in retaliation for something they never even did. I've seen girls spread vicious rumors about their friends because they worm wrongly believe they were doing something to them. It really must suck having to be in a constant cold war with your friends. At least with my guy friends growing up of we had a problem we would usually physically fight over it and then it would be over.
Girls are discouraged from being vulnerable with each other, we live in a culture where romance is the only relationship that matters, so a lot of girls see each other as company while they're single and as a competition to get a boy. This is why I hate when red pills say that women are united and coming for them. I wish! Women can use misogyny to diminish other women in a way to elevate themselves before men, the probability of women discrediting is much higher.
Man you perfectly described my experience. I spent most of my times with my mother and sister and cousins and saw how they just make up a whole scenario in their mind and accusations without any evidence just to excuse their “retaliation” or rumors on that said person. And the thing is that it has affected my personality a lot and has made me socially anxious and overly self conscious and so timid, cuz i think everyone is always judging and gossiping. And hard to unlearn this
If women never make false accusations though how is it possible for her to be wrong? That doesn't make any sense to me. Are you sure it was actually a misinterpretation?
To be fair, male bullies will definitely engage in both kinds of bullying, but the physical/direct bullying is so much more obvious that the rest often just gets ignored completely as if it didn’t exist, but it absolutely does. Don’t let anyone tell you that “X isn’t bullying because Y is bullying.” Both are bullying and both are abusive and wrong, and both should be discouraged and never defended, by anyone, under any circumstance. Just because one kind of abuse looks obviously terrible doesn’t mean another kind of bullying isn’t still bullying, and a lot of people do actually make that exact argument - it happens all the time.
What is even more disgusting is that nowadays there is a mix of these two aggressive behaviors. Both men and women will use verbal and physical aggression, and this indirect bullying that's actually more direct than people want to admit. Not to mention engaging in spreading fake rumors, false accusations based on bias and assumptions, fabricating lies by adding small pieces of truth to make it seem like a real situation. Also passive aggressiveness and fake compliments are so often used and it's not much addressed. It is but just very superficially, and only at the workplace, where you're supposed to be professional. But ...nobody actually reads that annual mandatory read, you just click "agree" and that's it. If the team is tiny, retaliation will definitely take place.
Thanks for bringing this to light! As an autistic female, I was a target for bullying and didn't understand girl's behavior until I got older and figured it out. Not all females are bullies, but those who are likely have pain in them they don't know what to do about so they hurt others. Shout out to the females who don't let their pain turn them into bullies! I appreciate you!
I needed to hear this. Thank you. I don’t understand why people hurt others to make themselves feel better. I could never hurt someone like I’ve been hurt. I’m on the spectrum and it’s made me a target far too many times. I’ve just realised that my brother’s partner is also doing this to me. It’s just stupid. Wishing you love and light 💕💕💕
This happened to me recently, where a girl was ignoring me but talking to my bf at work. He didn’t get why I was so upset. He said “she’s not saying anything mean to you, so you should be fine”. She made a point to joke around with my bf though and got the other girls in her department to ignore me too. As much as I tried to explain to my bf that what bothering me is that she was bullying me and knew she could get away with it, he wasn’t getting it. So annoying.
As a guy, and if he's interested, I think it's more efficient for you to show him Shorts like this or the full video this was based on. As a guy, we're ignorant about it unless we had a sister or mother describe or demonstrate this. We're naturally focused on keeping you physically safe from other guys, not look for threats among other women. If you begin to get frustrated, he might be less receptive because he can't see what you see. By showing him impartial information like this, perhaps he can look for the subtle signs on his own. I hope that helps.
Red flag! 🚩 Find someone who wants to understand you and cares about your feelings instead of invalidating you and telling you that you should feel differently and it’s not a big deal. Anyone who tries to ignore you while engaging with someone you are intimately connected with is trying to dismiss, minimize, and make you feel small, it is a form of bullying. If your partner is present and this happens and can’t “understand” the problem with this behavior then he is also an active participant and is secretly telling you how he really feels about you. Honor yourself, value your life, and protect yourself from anyone who feels comfortable with diminishing you. God bless.
This is precisely the reason I tended to stay away from other girls & just befriend guys growing up. Hell, I still do to this day. If guys have a problem with you, they will (typically) let you know upfront. That doesn't seem to (typically) be the case with girls/women. That's not to say I avoided all other girls/women. I have a small handful of girlfriends who I *know* I can rely on, but I'm definitely more selective of my female friendships in comparison to male friendships for this very reason.
I relate to this comment. I find men are easier to talk to and I don't have to worry about everything I say. Men aren't going to be jealous of me or worry I'm going to take their wife, lol. I'm a friendly open person and if people misinterpret that, then I really feel sorry for them. I have female friends, but I'm always on my guard because of past experiences, even with family members. When your new husband even says, out of the blue that, "you are treated like Cinderella", you know it's not in your mind. 😢
At the first signs just put distance. I honestly had bad situations, specially during my childhood because I wasnt pretty enough and it kinda did some pretty bad damage. Now growing up i despise superficial behaviours, like gossiping etc. Recognize the signs and just back off, specially with certain "friends". You dont need them and they clearly dont want you.
Sometimes being pretty makes you a target too. If I told you the amount of hate I've gotten from women and the amount of men who think of me as an object to try and use for their own personal pleasure only, you might have a different opinion about the benefits of being "pretty". It can do a lot of damage too. I'm sorry you were bullied. I've been through some nasty stuff too and I know it sucks. I hope you are healing.
@ella17734 I worked on myself a lot and still doing, It's going better indeed. It's sad because watching the world through those eyes gives you a very bad perspective like "oh so this it's what people are, deep down" which can be a difficult mindset to get rid off. Good people exist as bad people out there, thankfully. I have this phrase that I love to say that helped me a lot : " there's more to see than the eyes can show".
@ella17734 and when you try to talk to someone about it, the adult says, "It's bc you're too good looking." As if that is supposed to make everything ok and the hate worth it. Wtf?
@@Jennyonthehill7035not to mention how confusing it is to hear your entire life about "pretty privilege", but get randomly hated for existing or daring to feel good about yourself. Some of the prettiest & nicest women I've met are the loneliest & insecure because everyone assumes they're privileged or egotistical & need to be humbled. So their lived reality & how they see themselves ends up being the total opposite of what ppl assume.
Yeah as a girl that got bullied by both girls and boys growing up. The 1 Boy attacked me physically and other boys would yell at me about how stupid and ugly I was with their friend group. The girls were always about mind games. Ostracization was common with girls. You are the only one in the class not invited to a B- Day party, but usually that will let you know not to get near them because you are beneath them. Then there are people who become your friends and turn around and use everything you talked about with them to terrorize and torment you later. (this happened a lot) My friend group in middle school decided to start bullying after someone left the group to hang out with her boyfriend. And I was the new target for the bully's mind game to keep in control of the other girls. She kicked me out with the rest of the girls not able to look me in the eye with their heads down. Then they started shoving nasty letters in to my desk. I'm assuming she wrote a whole ass fanfic about me to try to shame me at one point (10 legal-size pages printed out during computer class ... ) fucking wild! I was so done with it all even though it hurt. In grade 9 I became a target of the next group of 12 girls. They mostly called me all sort of nasty things to other people who were earshot and drilled chalk into my back when the teacher was looking. I was fortunate enough to make another proper friend group that year. So I let the bullying happen and did not react to it because there was no point considering the 2 girls that started the hate fest in their group were in my classes. However in high school you get into classes that are mixed ages as electives. They tried to shit talk about me to a girl that was 2 years older and she called them out on it. First time in my life a person let alone a stranger defended me from the slander. LUL My mom as an ECE was always dealing with and seeing female bullying in the daycares she worked at. It was either the parent or the staff but it was always there like they never got out of high school.
@@WARPAINTandUnicorns Oh yeah, that was my experience at my first job at a daycare. The boss did it and several other people did too. The reason for the bullying was because I was respected by the older preschool students. I met the kids where they were at age wise and made it clear that being an adult wasn't all fun and games. And when I had to say no, my no was respected the first time I said it. And also because I would get down and safely wrestle with them. Essentially, I made learning fun. My ADHD made it easy for me to connect with the kids. The boss and other staff were full of petty jealousy that I was so popular without trying. I simply was doing my best to be a good role model for how to be a decent human in a society that doesn't necessarily reward or appreciate genuine effort to be a decent human. Pretty sick isn't it? That job nearly broke me. It was the adults that made it toxic. The kids were sweethearts, even when they were having meltdowns or throwing tantrums. Hell, I had a 3 year old behave better than a bunch of adults in the same room. Even when they were having a meltdown! Utterly pathetic.
When my daughters were in high school, the mean, popular girls would make them feel invisible… They would never confront them with what they did wrong and deal with an issue and so my daughters were left feeling unsure of what to change or what to apologize for. it was horrible and destroyed their self esteem. The mean girls could never be disciplined for it because they “didn’t do anything”. It was heartbreaking to watch as a parent.
Add Autism to the mix, and it is much more cruel. When one has been thru it because of the undiagnosed Autism it becomes worse to see our children go thru what one did. Now, with social media, it is multiple. I feel my hands tied, no matter how I try helping my child. Autism, Anxiety, and other. Good therapy is not helping, either.
I was bullied ruthlessly from 7th grade through high school graduation. Of course, it was all about exclusion. The girls who bullied me, though, did not only shun me, they manipulated others to shun me AND they set me up to look stupid in front of others which made me self exclude as well…so much so that it was only in my late 30’s and beyond when I realized that, perhaps, the guys who asked me out in high school were actually sincere. They were not friends with these girls, but I was so traumatized that I just accepted that everyone was in on it. A woman who had been in my class, 5 years after graduation, told me that nobody in her group understood how I could come to school and maintain a sunny attitude all day, everyday, with the way those girls treated me. This was a relief because, by that time I thought maybe I imagined all of that…since there was nothing physical about it and nobody seemed to notice but me when it was going on. Around the same time, I had a good friend who I had gone through school with (k-12) and neither of us ever liked each other. One night he invited me to go to a party at the home of one of “those girls.” I told him that I was not welcome to go, and he said I was being ridiculous, so I went. About 5 minutes after arriving, I was made keenly aware that I was unwelcome. So, I took a beer, went outside, and enjoyed the night air and looking at the stars. About 15 minutes later, my friend came exploding out of the house, growled angrily at me, “WE’RE LEAVING,” and barrelled down the driveway. I yelled after him to slow down and stop. He did. He was fuming. Fire was coming out of his eyes. I asked him, “what’s wrong?” He bellowed at me, “DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SAYING ABOUT YOU?!?” I smiled. I said, “Erik, I have never known what they were saying about me, and now, I don’t care.” He softened, looked bewildered, and asked, “was I like that in high school?” I just said, “well, they are your friends.” The ride home was silent.
You're great story teller. I was very intrigued. Kudos to you for remaining true to yourself despite their nasty behaviour. And that last line...stella! I bet that got him to introspect about his entire life up until that point.
@smartmarketing173 Yeahup, it's a major problem in corporate.(thats where i was). I thought I was the only one going through it as most people never heard of it, at least with how vicious they got. They made it seem like I was the problem. *Jealousy was the problem!* The manager of one of the HR reps who got fired was left behind and he tried to Trump up bs complaints about me in an effort to get me fired and it always backfired on him. I had to get the President of HR for the company involved. I was about to sue their a$$. They ended up giving me a payout when the company sold. It was a horrible time in my life. As much as I signed an NDA, I will be writing about it.
My daughter went through all your points throughout highschool and beyond, plus throw social media in...a huge factor in today's world. Depression, anxiety and suicides have increased greatly since 2010. I can see why Australia is attempting to set new boundaries with the under 16 age group. Glad this topic has been brought up!
I’m a woman who worked for 24 years in the public works design and construction field. Men can do these things too, but you make an excellent point. I feel like this is a whole area of anti feminist behavior that isn’t addressed enough. Men have learned to set up good olde boy networks, but women often seem to compeat over whatever scraps of power that are left for us.
@@crepusculey863 I feel like men just aren’t wired to behave like this and they just don’t care enough to do these things. I’m being general of course. When they do, they know this type of behavior largely goes unnoticed and unchecked so the narcissists and others take advantage. Soft power gets you ahead in today’s world anyway, men have little to nothing to gain from physically asserting themselves.
Men can do these things too but I feel like they’re just not that wired for it and they especially have zero desire to. Typically the men that do these things are the narcissists and such. Asserting yourself physically gets you almost no where.
Men can do these things too but I feel like they’re just not that wired for it and they especially seem to have zero desire to. Typically the men that do these things are the ones with personality disorders or just know this method is the name of the game, because asserting yourself physically gets you almost nowhere.
It’s psychological abuse. It’s meant to break your ego and self-worth. A person has to possess a strong core identity to be resilient and not allow the emotional and psychological tactics affect them. This type of abuse is just as destructive as physical because the injuries cause mental health issues. It affects the person’s self-esteem, personality and mental well-being.
I am a women but if i work in a male environment its often not the males pulling me down. It is just before you go into a meeting the secretary (the only other women) pulls me aside "are you sure you are up to this? Just when you are nervous they use that. They would never dare to say something like that to any man just before he goes into an important meeting.
Their comment is not appropriate for the situation though. An interviewee needs affirmation not doubt. That should be a basic philosophy because there's no real danger in an interview it's just anxiety, you need confidence, that's not what gave her lol. @@Sotebolikurac
I am a man but was best friends with someone in highschool that ostracized me from my entire group of friends. It took a long time for me to recover and grow from that- and I always felt like I could never label or make sense of how I felt. It was awful and worse than anything
The example given was spot on. It happens all the time no matter the professional or non professional setting. Another thing they’ll do is ensure you’re a source of their humour so they can make themselves look better. But it was “just a joke” so you can’t overreact. I absolutely hate it. I’ve not found a good way to deal with it except avoiding these people as much as possible.
@@claudiabcarvalho but then i feel like i'm stopping to their level/being petty and not my authentic self... who is NOT a mean girl....................
@@nellieshoals in all honesty. Love them. Love them, and tell them you truly like them. Tell them things that you see they do and are trying to do. Tell them thank you over everything. Be extra kind, extra sweet. They start leaving you alone. Because you don't react the way they want. And if you love them, you start to see their behavior as very saddening, but not for you, but for them. Showing genuine sorrow and concern to them over this behavior is something alot of the time none of them expect. And alot of times it makes them infuriated because your showing them something they are not, genuine.
I was bullied a lot as a child (girl), almost exclusively by girls. Whereas I got nothing more than direct, light teasing from boys and it was rare. Listening to your words made my skin crawl. It’s very accurate.
i am a male victim of emotional abuse by ex female partners but it gets so hard when people automatically assume i was the bad guy when they were so brutal and cruel to me on so many occasions they get EXTREMELY cruel and VERY dangerous when they start turning people against the victim when the victim starts to try to stand up for themselves etc it can be very dangerous too when they start to try to act like they are the victim too just to try to get the house in a seperation etc people tend to AUTOMATICALLY assume that the guy is the one who was abusive even when he tries to get help in one time i went to try to get help from the police because i knew my ex was going to try to kill me but i got laughed at by the (female) cop and the cop told me to go home then my ex tried to kill me but luckily i woke up just before she did please have a heart for guys.. a lot of us are victims of abuse BECAUSE we would not hurt them when they are cruel to us i hope life will be good for all good hearted people and that you find someone who TRULY loves and values you and cares about how you feel Best wishes from Rolland in Scotland edit: they suck us back into wanting them when we try to get away from them by being super nice to us then they get cruel again when we get hooked on them again
Thank you for speaking on this! It is hard to prove as a woman that another woman is against you, without looking as if you are the perpetrator. Very insidious the dark feminine energy is and can be wicked when not used correctly.
I (a woman) was bullied relentlessly growing up by other girls. I naturally gravitated towards more male-dominated interests, but I was pushed even farther into them because of the bullying and exclusion from other girls. As an adult, however, my strongest friendships are mainly the girls who didn't bully me as we grew up together and now I have known them for nearly two decades. The male friends I made in that same time period... nowhere to be found, aside from the one I introduced to my best friend in highschool and they got married. 😅 But these are definitely structures that are inflicted by the way society treats women and men, in combination with the way testosterone fundamentally changes a person's personality and impulses.
Girls can be the worst at bullying. I was bullied. I vividly remember two particular girls who I knew 100000% didn’t like me. They were waiting to be picked up from school and my dad had just arrived for me. As we left, they called out “bye” and waved. I didn’t acknowledge it at all. Then I spent the next twenty minutes home being lectured by my dad for being extremely impolite and rude. It was so awful that I was sobbing long before we got home. He wouldn’t even hear my reasoning. There was no excuse just rudeness and punishment. The injustice of it all really hurt. I knew full well that had I replied they’d have made my life even more of a hellish place. It’s now been a good 30 years but that’s one incident that is still fresh in my mind. It was awful and it was made so much worse by my dad. …..and no, I’ve not forgiven him either. It still smacks of betrayal and it hurts to know he didn’t have my back and didn’t even care to listen to me.
Growing up and raised by a single father, it was hard for me to understand other girls. I hung out with boys because I understood them, they were direct and not secretive or gossipy. They would talk sh*t to your face instead of behind your back. I always felt it to be easier. As a married woman, I’ve learned to adapt to having close female friends in my life and while I love them, I still think men are easier to understand and interact with. I used to get excluded by girls when I was younger and I never understood why. I was kind and funny. I even was a bit trendy. Lmao. They were just catty and mean. Still makes me cringe. Worked out for the best anyway!
Yes, one of my older sisters has Never spoken to me unless she's trying to look normal in front of other family members. She simply excludes from me everything 100% and I have no idea why. It's happened since I was a kid and she was a young adult. I didn't even do anything, I was just a kid! It's hurt me my entire life to Feel her intense disapproval and I don't think there's any way to get over it except to say "she's just a btch to me for no reason" to explain it to eg my boyfriend or friends when they ask why she never speaks to me. I don't think I'll ever know why, I can only ever guess as to possible reasons.
@@seelogic9845 she’s getting off on your seeking her validation. Next time she pulls this stunt just say out loud that you enjoy being around folks who appreciate me and value my presence. Too bad some don’t, but that’s their problem not mine. 🤗
It was always funny to me when girls/women thought that excluding me was hurting my feelings somehow. When it came to the rumors and indirect aggression, I found that being direct with them and not backing down when they gaslight usually got them to back off.
@@commentatorefautitivo That's no friend. Friends don't even THINK about wanting to hurt their friend, ever. Please stop associating with him asap. You should never put up with or tolerate anyone disrespecting you. Sending you all the best..💖
@@donnamariedavidson5065 it's difficult unfortunately. we are in the same friend group, we all guys, but he appears more charismatic etc... so everything he does, it's good for everyone. but when you call him out, you are the sensitive one (ironic, since one time I did the same to him and he got PISSED)
I am autistic and this traumatized me to this day. I still have issues befriending women because of this, I always feel scared and insecure. Its sad, I love people but I have such a hard time now trusting people because I usually just realize the damage way too late
Totally agree and experienced it a lot growing up. The isolation was very painful but I learned to handle it better in my adult years. I embrace it and do my best to exude warmth and friendliness towards others.
I’m glad it’s being called out because some women can be down right calculated and spiteful while being low key and it’s down right dangerous. This type of advice can definitely help us avoid having people like this in our lives/circle 👍
It can escalate into physical aggression too, if left unchecked. I was very unpopular at school and got the usual treatment. Then they set my waistlength black (which annoyed them) hair on fire. Hair goes up *really* fast and is super dangerous. They had a good laugh while i was beating the flames out and, luckily, wasn't injured. I cut the rest off and told my mum that id decided to go punk because I'd given up on trying to get any resolution and had decided to just try to survive the last couple of years at school. (Sorry for the long post. Cathartic ranting, I think 😅 )
I do see this sometimes in adult women's groups. When I was growing up, my mother was not interested in gossiping or being around backstabbing women. Our high school wasn't much into bullying. 50 years ago in a small town, even though some smaller towns had strong cliques. I was mostly around men since we had a sawmill, and I worked for the RR. When I started joining womens groups, they were spiritual, and it was interesting trying to learn their language. At that time, I was doing a lot of strong yoga, so emotional stuff was getting cleared out. I am listening to be aware and figuring out what to say when I observe it. All the best to those who have gone through this violence.
One thing I always see happening: girl A goes to a social event with girl B, and girl A's bully comes and goes like "heyyy girl B! I missed you so much I want to talk with you the whole day"
As an autistic girl, I got absolutely tortured by other girls as a kid. I didn’t understand social cues so I would often go along with sincerely with what these girls said, not realizing they were trying to bully me. I was so clueless at the start that one of the girls had to stop me when I started to respond sincerely to something said and she had to explain to me, “No, I’m trying to make fun of you.” Once I realized what they were doing, it hurt and never stopped. I could never tell when anyone was being sincere. From then on I knew socializing wasn’t worth the pain. I am so used to being unwanted and harassed in any given space that in my adulthood, coworkers were shocked to see me respond to playful ribbing as if it were serious. I’d walk into a room and a woman in the middle of a conversation would groan, go, “Ugh, here SHE is.” I’d go, “Oh, okay, sorry.” And leave right away. Only for her to hurry to me and tell me she was just joking, they weren’t really talking bad about me. I believe her, I know I’m the one that doesn’t have the correct understanding of people but I spent so much of my life needing to suss out signs that I was secretly not welcome because usually that was the case.
People who act this way are not joking they are intentionally trying to make you feel small and unwelcome. Your interpretation was not wrong and your response to leave was correct. She came back to say she was joking because she tried to save face because when you left it also put a spotlight on her inappropriate behavior towards you and she felt embarrassed.
But people shouldn't be saying such insensitive things to others. I feel it's very unkind. One of my brothers said something similar at a family function and I was in tears. He had no idea that other female family members had been isolating me for decades. It's not funny, especially if they wouldn't like that said to them. I'm sorry you went through that.❤
Well obviously the damage is not the same, because your comparing emotional damage to physical damage, which are two different things. They are not the same things, or there wouldn't be different words for them.
@@balthasardenner5216the magnitude of damage is the same. I've had lots of people who were emotionally abused say they'd rather be physically abused if they had the choice. bc emotional abuse poisons your mind forever. EDIT: this is not to talk down physical abuse vs. emotional. I just think the opposite shouldn't be done either
@@balthasardenner5216the same as in equally as damaging. I think you know what that person means and are just being rude and picking an argument. When a man is abusing a woman it’s taken very seriously. There’s so much help and resources out there. But when women are abusing men they can’t do much. Even when women physically abuse men it’s not taken as seriously.
@@kissenklauer7011 That argument really falls through, though, as physical abuse almost always goes hand in hand with emotional abuse. Or do you think guys who beat or otherwise assault their partners are pleasant human beings outside of these violent episodes? How do you think they get their victims to stay in relationships with them, sometimes for years, except by threats and manipulation and mind games? A woman who was physically abused was almost always *also* emotionally/mentally abused. So don't you dare compare the two scenarios and say, it's 'equally bad'. No it isn't. Come back to me, when you've been beaten up or r-worded by a man considerably bigger and stronger than you and then we can talk, how much 'words hurt'. Smdh.
As a woman who has faced bullying, this is very accurate. Woman tend to take things verbaly, like excluding you from conversations and/or plans. This is atleest the type I faced.
There’s also the recruiting all the other girls to exclude and choose sides. It isn’t just the bully leaving out the bullied but getting all the other kids to exclude her too.
A deeper form of bullying that is damaging and low degrading from someone who is hiding their own insecurities.. .never unnoticed, finds a way through.
Im a female and I was bullied by boys growing up. I didnt have girls my age in our neighborhood. I never learned how girls respond to eachother. By the time i was in middle school, i was silenced by the boys and shunned by the girls. I didn't talk to anyone for four years (4-9). By 9th grade, kids changed. New groups were formed and i drifted between groups, but was always the outcast. I still don't have friends. I'm married and my husband is my best and only friend. We understand each other.
I didn’t even know I was bullied. I didn’t know that everyone else knew I was bullied. I thought I might just not be a likeable person until one day my mother was approached by the mothers of two classmates who said their kids had told them that rumors were being spread about me. The most painful part wasn’t even the ringleader’s scheming, it was that no one dared to say a thing to my face or at least tell me about the bigger picture of what was happening, because then I would’ve been able to discredit the rumours. It took the ringleader physically pushing me to the ground calling me a waste of space in front of our classmates for them to recognise the fault wasn’t mine
I stopped going to an art class with a regular small group of students because i was targetted by a jealous classmate - would interrupt every time the teacher was explaining something to me, set up her equipment too close to me & always timing it so i couldn't get help from teacher (she could have just waited), used and took my equipment in the middle of a task, talked about me to teacher in their native language, got her instruction in that language so i couldn't share learning, and when she realised teacher & i had one on one time after everyone left, she set up drawings & asked for & kept the teacher 10 minutes over time to make sure i had no time. I had a couple of times said things like where's my brush in a loud voice but teacher let her get away with it & because they were speaking their language, it looked to tbe others jealous lady was helping by giving me equipment! So she got lots of warm attention from other classmates after that & i got ignored and glared at for being loud & looking bothered.
I had a femaie co worker say something way out of line to me in front of others.. my response ? it’s amazing how you just let any thought that passes through your mind flow out of your mouth. She was completely taken aback and apologized.
An example this is when I entered seventh grade I went to a small school. It was a Lutheran school and I was the only new student in four years. I went there for two years and they most popular girl in my class decided to start spreading rumors about me. In eighth grade, it was the same group of students and they decided to split up in two groups inform clubs guess who was not invited. Me I was the only girl in my class who was not invited into two different groups. Did the pious teachers do anything about this? Of course they did not. When my mother talked to the teacher and to the principal who just happened to be the father of one of the girls in my class. Finally, something was said. But it wasn’t anything that included me and either one of the groups. Then my mother spoke to them again about their hypocrisy . Then we got a lecture on hypocrisy, but of course still nothing was done . One of the teachers asked me how I felt, and if I wanted to be included and one of the groups ? No, I told them I don’t wanna be included because they were pressured to include me. I don’t want to be recipient of pity. They didn’t like me and they made it obvious. I didn’t like them either. I was the only girl in a group of about 50 students who had no friends and it was obvious that I was singled out. 😭
You just described me too. And I was going through some horrendous family trauma while that was happening to me, like I did not need that as a 12 year old at the center of a major court case. I saw one of them recently, having moved back to my hometown and she tried to be friendly. She in particular had made a lot of racist comments about me. Now, my ethnicity makes me look about a decade younger than I am. I pretended I didn't recognize her or know the name, "sorry... it's been a really long time, I just can't remember people after SO MUCH time has passed. Maybe you looked... different BACK THEN? Have a great day anyway uh.....Chris...tine?"
The greatest part is that they never grow out of it. They go to HR or management positions (thanks nepotism!) and then the company has high turnover for some reason. They never get punished or corrected.
Learn to let go. It's not what other people do that matters, its what you do that matters. People are people. If you don't expect much, you're less likely to be disappointed. 😊
Back in the 80s a 6 th grade girl told me “you are a really nice girl but I can’t be seen with you at school I need to be seen with the popular girls “ at least she told me …girls can be brutal -thank you for brining this to light -now with social media it’s so tough
It’s the most disgusting thing and these people carry it to work places. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I started working for a major brand what middle school behavior was going on there.
I pretended likeI didn’t care at work but now I regret being “strong”. I realized that by not sticking up for myself, I was enabling the behavior. Other people were also being picked on.
In my day they learned it from teachers, the teachers pets were soo obvious & then the kids that were poor, couldn’t help but notice those poor kids were more often than not treated with total indifference…then there were the kids with wrong coloured hair or too many freckles, there were no overweight kids so at least that didn’t play into it…. don’t know bout social media but had to start from somewhere…
As a woman, I will have to say yes…this is the type of bullying in school, in work places in any group how women who bully other women are. It’s not always easy to work with and around people like this. I’m always conscious of other people’s emotions and feelings and try to be considerate. I just think that since women endure a lot biologically, it may be a challenge for some of us to regulate the different emotions. When there are added traumas, it could be worse. I’ve always gotten along more with males when engaging in full conversations. I’ve never been able to have full whole hearted conversations with women without non judgement, acceptance and understanding as much as with males. Maybe only with two woman friends/family that I’ve known for 30 & 40+ years. This topic needs to be in the forefront and discussed more. I appreciate Dr. K for speaking on it. There is so much bullying in schools and it’s in the work places too.
I work in Healthcare and one of my ex boss would stop other nurses to answer the patient's call bell because she was targeting that particular primary nurse at that time. She would move on to target someone else every few months.
A girl had problem me and what she started doing is she would purposefully come to my bestie when m with her and only compliment her .... like 50 times a day.... likes if we both are wearing sarees she will come up to us and say oh my god u look soo good in this saree (to my bestie) amd just pass me casual smiles ... and I was not able to communicate this to my bestie cuz I thought she might think I am getting jealous of the attention she is getting It was a tricky situation I didn't know what to do so I just tolerated her till the end of semester
My own sister will do that to me. It's absolutely deliberate, and she knows it & I know it, but no one else can see it so I say nothing. There's a game where you say "bingo", whenever someone is being passive aggressive like this toward you, lol. Try it, it will confuse them and you can laugh to yourself. 😂 you might think to yourself, 3 bingos and I'll go home, or 3 bingos and I'll reward myself with some chocolate, a jog, a drive tomorrow. It helps to not personalise it so much. It may even stop if she becomes embarrassed, as she would notice when you do it and others wouldn't. Just say you have a new style of Tourettes Syndrome,lol.😅 I tend to try and see some humouring things and that helps me cope.
When you're in elementary or high school, many don't have the experience that acquires wisdom and comes with emotional maturity to know how little other people's opinion matter. Once you 'get it', quality friendships bloom.
Experienced this at a very young age, minus the exclusion. Hostile Rumors, an indirect communication attack, non disruptive behavior were involved. Only realized after listening to this.
You know it’s really sad the number of us who are neurodivergent who’ve experienced this. It totally sucks and I’m sorry for us all that people just don’t do well with us. We deserve better. You are all awesome people. Let your light shine bright 💕💕💕
This is why. I'm so confused about this. I was bullied by girls for years in elementary school. As a woman, I am very direct, and usually only assume someone is upset with me if they directly tell me so, otherwise they're upset about something else. I always communicate directly, never had a problem getting a boyfriend. But have had a lot of trouble making female friends. No one explained the rules to me, so they must not be that important. 🤷🏽♀️
Exclusion is definitely a common tactic.
Thinking of it, it's really uncommon with men / boys to fully exclude someone. Sometimes someone ends at the bottom of the hierarchy, but they have still their place in a group. And group membership usually is not a question: you stick together, whatever may happen.
But, having attended a girls class (20ish girls and another dude besides me), exclusion was very common. And pretty brutal, if I dare say.
Must be some archaic explanation. As a team that is out to hunt mammoths everyone has his place and you certainly don't leave someone behind, if not necessary.
Know too well, was on the receiving end of it for most of my school time.
Had "exclusion" done to me many a times,also in work. Women can be truly cruel when moved by envy.
I know exclusion from men as well. I feel, here is a narrative being constructed that is very inaccurate.
I believe its a perception bias. We see certain bullying tactics but we overlook the aggressiveness of girls and overlook passive aggressiveness of boys only to keep that narrative in our heads alive.
But looking closely every gender uses all bullying tactics.
@@MZBS639 I disagree.
I believe it’s not as organised as boys do aggression like this, and women do aggression like that.
It’s more of a spectrum, where both polar manifestations of aggression present in both sexes. You have some boys that will rely more heavily on passive aggression, and you have some girls that rely more heavily on direct aggression.
However this is still nested inside a broader pattern that that boys lean more towards direct aggression and girls lean more towards passive aggression. And I’m saying that as a boy who dealt with exclusion in my all-boys school as a small child.
It’s my experience that the attempts to move attention away from female passive aggression, is in-and-of itself, a covert tactic of the antisocial female.
Firstly it is sleight of hand, keeping attention away from what’s really happening, allowing the behaviour to occur in the shadows, which is then more effective when it’s acted on because it occurs in a vacuum of conscious awareness.
Secondly it can dissuade people from looking into the shadows, by disarming them from the inside with shame, by linking such enquiries to misogyny.
No matter the accusations thrown around society, some of us know the truth because we have grown up with mothers who used these covert tactics on us.
If you look in the shadows, your eyes will eventually adjust to the dark.
Can we talk about how spot on Dr. K'S mean girl queen bee impression was 💀
@@ponkanzestproductions
Can we talk about "Mansplaining" or how an explanation of 'female bullying', might be less credible coming from a Male rather than a Female?
For one thing, a female might be more inclined to explain WHY female bullying tends to be less direct (and violent) than that of males, and that's because girls and boys are still raised with different expectations. While society actively discourages open expressions of anger and aggression from females, it all but celebrates it in men..I'm sorry, but it should be obvious: When people are treated differently, they act differently.
Ysy
@@naryaquid Hey, I agree with you! Honestly this is just a harmless comment from my experience, I didn't really get into the nuance of internalized misogyny in my comment. I've been both the bullied fat nerd girl and the queen bee, so I just think it's a spot on impression of behavior I experienced and I instigated.. I haven't watched THIS specific video of Dr. K but from what I know about him, he isn't shy with connecting societal needs and social expectations from human behavior, so maybe he can give it a try (or already did in the longer version of this video). Plus, as a psychiatrist, I think he went more of a "descriptive approach" rather than "a critical and intersectional approach" of the queen bee experience that resonated with me, but you are right that it might not resonate with others so they do not feel represented by what he said. It would be lovely to have him welcome a woman psychiatrist too in a deeper discussion.
@@naryaquid
-"might be less credible coming from a Male rather than a Female"
-How do you unironically use the word "mansplaining" to discredit a clinical psychologist with a doctorate in psychology explaining in layman's terms the overwhelming findings in the literature, many of the studies being run or assisted by women...
- "girls and boys are still raised with different expectations....While society actively discourages open expressions of anger and aggression from females, it all but celebrates it in men"
, and then in the same breath start "womansplaining" a dumbed down, uncited, generalized categorical prescription on the shaping of male behavior, that isn't really a claim at all but a conclusion drawn from one demographic's aggregate behavior being divergent, by essence, relative from another demographics aggregate social behavior, but doesn't include any claims supporting this blanket statement assertion. Do you not see how many contradictions are in every single sentence of your comment lmfaoo.
The tone was perfect too
Exclusion, reputation destruction, ridicule, humiliation. Its insidious.
Character assassination, accusation, manipulation. Plus, not facing consequences, and the whole you can’t hit me back
This is what my brother as ne said n do to me.
These are also consistent with the other type of bullying too
@@getmotivated1707 This is how my brother in law tried to bully me before I cut him out of my life. It's far more covert, which is why he used it.
I'd say that is the preferred style of bullying by females, but is not exclusive to them.
I once got publicly humiliated at a house party back in highschool. First time I ever asked a girl out was a disaster, but she took it as an opportunity to "have some fun". She and her friend started a game of "hey so-and-so is looking for you". Each one kept telling me that the other was looking for me whenever they saw me. This went on back and forth more than 5 times and it turned out they were planning on playing this horrible mind game on me for months. At the time I knew what they were doing but I just did not know how to deal with it. In the end I left the party early and ended up missing out on a photo of everyone gathered there.
I basically suffered every man's worst nightmare when it comes to asking women out on dates.
He's spot on. Ignoring, silent treatment, spreading rumors, exclusion, meaningful glances, this is my entire middle and high school experience. It's a learned behavior, passed down through the generations. It takes a strong personality to stand up and say, I'm not going to be a part of this anymore.
Yes, thank you for pointing it out that it is learned. Generally if you have a group of like minded people who are well adjusted from childhood, you don't see this kind of drama too often.
It's biology.
😮 It's Weird that I didn't get that in school much, it started as an adult in workplace and church settings. Smh😂🎉🎉😂 PRAISE JESUS!
My mom and sister do this, and bring their friends along. When I get into the room I can tell they just finished gossiping about me ugggg I'm the youngest too, I don't understand why they do it
I was a fat kid. This was my entire childhood. I do not miss being a kid at all!
I had a 'friend' like that once. She hit on my boyfriend and when l confronted her about it, accused me of being paranoid and posessive. She said that l should 'allow' him to do what he wanted and to stop being so controlling. I watched her do the same thing to other women, too. She would particularly target well-bonded couples.
Sorry to hear that :( glad you realised what was going on
I’m impressed you are aware of your friend doing that. I really am.. that’s awesome. I’m just wondering how far down the road you’ve actually traveled or if you just stopped there after that realization about your one friend who does this , instead of realizing that type of stuff is baked into all of your DNA?
@@Theresa-Lottodo a real friend would have said "Holy crap I'm so sorry. That's absolutely not what I'd intended. Let's talk about this and see how we move forward."
So let me guess, she wasn't in a relationship with anyone herself and wasn't looking for anything serious... wanting to enlarge the playfield for herself is what it is.
Ah... narcissist trying to boost her ego by disrupting the bonded-couples. Power trip. Disgusting!
It's a psychological kind of bullying. I remember that even years after I left the school where I was bullied most (I am a girl), anytime people around me in public laughed I immediately assumed they must be laughing at me. People I didn't even know. Because it was a common occurrence for me to be walking in passing period to my next class and I passed a group of girls and they all laugh and pointed and whispered. I didn't even know some of them. On the last day of school, one girl I barely ever talked to revealed to me that she felt bad people spread such mean rumors about me because I am actually a very nice person. That was the first time I had become aware that people had been spreading rumors about me for the past two years of middle school.
It took me conditioning myself out of that mindset after I no longer dealt with that issue every day, because we moved, to be able to think that everyone wasn't constantly laughing at me.
Sorry that happened to you, hope everything is going well now
I thought I was the only one with that problem. Every time someone laughed I also get this immediate thought that they're laughing at me, but I've managed to mostly work through it now. I did get bullied, but I'm a male and got bullied mostly through the male/boy way at school - with direct threats, insults and occasional punches. Was the youngest on my block, so the weakest. Boys also spread rumours though.
@@LibertarianGearhead it’s refreshing to hear that a male has experienced something similar. I was bullied in a very feminine style by a small group of boys throughout elementary school. They would spread rumors and constantly make it known that they would exclude me. Because it went on for years, it took me well into highschool to get over thinking that anyone who was laughing was laughing at me.
No wonder the group of girls laughing has become a meme aswell.
Been there 😢
It sux 💕
The bully is often soooo nice to people that is not their bullying target - if you try to explain to those people about getting bullied they will say you are misreading the bully’s behaviour, you are being over sensitive and overreacting or they will flat out not believe you.
You end up getting gaslit by the other people who only ever see the super nice side of the bully.
So much worse if you are neurodivergent and doubt yourself (you gaslight yourself too).
Worse case - the other people will actively stand up for the bully and think you’re a weirdo or an asshole. That’s how the ostracising happens 😩
A mi no me gustan los bullies, I always believe people when they say they’re being bullied ❤
Super well said.
my mother accused me of being jealous of my sister when she would do this
@@emm1756 That's true. Great perspective and well stated. Thanks for sharing.
My bully did it right in front of other people. I think my other coworkers thought, hey I'm gonna stay out of it. At least she's not doing it to me.
Don't forget backhanded compliments. Those are often invisible to men or even other women of different generations.
Edit: Even people from different social bubbles.
Examples of backhanded compliments?
@@derBene My guess is stuff like "That dress is so brave. I could never wear that" or "I admire the fact that you don't care about how you look" would qualify. Basically stuff that sounds like a compliment, but they actually never say that you look good or wear that well, and in fact are implying the opposite.
@@derBene "Oh this (clothing item) is so vintage, you must have searched for it for so long!" (ie.: it's old, out of style)
"I admire you. I could never even imagine wearing something like this to school/work." (ie.: your clothing doesn't fit in)
It could be about pretty much anything, though. Looks, property, choices... And always sounds innocent on the surface (so when they are caught, they can pretend being oblivious and meaning well).
Its insidious and goes under the radar since it's easily confused with almost identical well-meaning comments actual friends would give.
@@derBene "Ohhh... You so confident to walk like that sweety. You know, your dress make you so much cooler than usual." Disgusting shit honestly.
@@derBene”you look so good for your age I’d have never guessed you were x years old”
or (generally to a POC or immigrant): “wow you are so articulate I’m impressed!”
Indirect as hell. An old boss of mine was 🌸lovely🌸 to everyone else… even me, in front of everyone. Behind closed doors she spoke to me like a naughty child, withheld critical info about tasks and was never happy with my work. The worst thing is you can’t say anything because nobody will believe you.
This happened to me too. It gave me ptsd. It’s such a difficult experience to overcome. People like this enjoy being cruel. It’s so painful and I still struggle on bad days to not be overwhelmed with a deep, dark sadness knowing that this is what people are lol. We’re never going to be better :(
Get a recorder. Just use tech.
@ recording someone without their knowledge or consent is illegal here
@ sorry to hear. I think people like that are in the minority though. They don’t define the rest of humanity. If we assume everyone is just as bad, we’ll be miserable… and then they win. But nothing pisses bullies off more than ..you being happy.
@@Celeste-in-Oz That's a stupid law. I would try to fight it if I were you. "Freedom of the Press" is in our constitution in the US and it keeps us safe from people in power doing unjust things to us.
Female bullying happens a lot in the healthfield. As a CNA for the 6 years, no matter where I work doctors, nurses, certified nurse assistants, and other healthcare workers bully. I'm so sick of it.
I'm in nursing school...I've worked CNA, as the only male in a on that floor- i got fed up with it and quit. House Sup- told me to quit, when I asked for a floor where I'm not out numbered. I quit 3 days later. Every clinical rotation and sim lab, there is always one at the least who is obvious- only to me though, by purposely ignoring me and not passing my assignment down the line-it stops in front 9f her, and she won't touch it...I had to tell her, thats not your paper...0ass it down. I don't understand WHY they do this to me, let alone ANYONE ELSE?I am a grown man, 50 years old and these little baby girls are messing with me like that...its pathetic- and they are gonna provide care to old men and women- we know what thst entails...I've got a 30 year Icu nurse roommate- i had to tell her to stop with the stories- i was scared thinking about the acuity I will be working with- now its more like I'm scared of the people I will be having to work around😢
I have been horrifically bullied in the healthcare field, and it got so bad I developed PTSD from my time as a CNA. I ended up in a psychiatric hospital from how bad it got after I was assaulted by a coworker. It didn't matter where I went, the toxicity followed. I'm sorry this happened to you, no workplace deserves to be like this. We should all feel safe to come to work. We don't all have to like each other, but we should have to respect each other. Some of these people didn't get that memo...
And yet, when this behavior directly effects patient outcomes, *especially* female patients, many of you will join in the bullying and gaslight us; claiming that this just simply isn’t true and “not all nurses” etc. etc. But I’m sure you’re “one of the good ones”.
Only person here that brought up patient safety and victimization was the 50 year old man. No surprises there.
And yet, when this behavior directly effects patient outcomes, *especially* female patients, and those patients speak up, many of you will join in the bullying and gaslight us. Claiming that this just simply isn’t true and “not all nurses”, patronizing tones and “I’m sorry you _feel_ that way”, “Sorry for whatever _you’ve_ been through, sweety, BUT-“ etc. etc. But I’m sure you’re “one of the good ones”.
Actions speak louder than words. Only person here that brought up patient safety and victimization was the 50 year old man. No surprises there.
@@localppcartist brother, im a male nursing student. im already used to the girls acting weird around me. i ignore them.
What is problematic about this type of bullying is that it is not illegal and is in the greyzone of what is punishable, compared to punching someone in the face which is viewed as bad no matter the circumstance. So you have no way of truly retaliating unless you too want to play this game. It happens in work and even in politics all the time.
Exactly, I always say the physicality of things are just very easy to see and police. Nobody ever even questions any of this or thinks about it. There are so many things you can do that are legal that can have just as devastating consequences while going unnoticed.
@@PeepoFrog It does seem that any escalation is outside the bounds of what is considered acceptable, which backs people into a corner who suffer this kind of abuse.
Completely agree.
That's what is so mindfucking about it too, it's so hard to even explain or pinpoint and it's done in such a way that would make YOU look like a weirdo for being upset about. The kind where the person tells you it's just in your head.
@ Exactly.
Once I was studying pedagogy, and we were reading about bullying, I asked about the noble art of freezing out, and our lecturer explained that almost no research was done on that subject, or even non physical bullying was pretty neglected.
As a woman my jaw just dropped, since in my experience that is what most bullying consists of.
And tons of people excuse it.
A theory could be that researching it means to dig into traditional female dominated workplaces like the health service an education system. And that means airing something akin to the law of omertà. Now it can be a more simple answer and it's that nobody did care. I'm a teacher and it's hard to work around female bullying between students. I'm too I'm a woman who has been bullied and it's hard to truly spot it until it is too late. Also I'm always worried I would made it worse for the bullied girl.😢
The reason it's not researched is simple - it would involve challenging feminism and challenging and holding women accountable in particular.
Rather than just regurgitating tired tropes about women being the "fairer" sex.
We don't do that as a society it seems. The real fairer sex is denigrated and hated while the casually abusive sex is constantly excused
This is a big reason why I make an effort to confront any insults or just things that other students are uncomfortable with in a classroom. Many times I’ve found that children are fairly malleable and will adopt your values if you explain them well. That is, however, often not enough when the bullying has been occurring over a series of years.
honestly i think it’s a similar reason as to why there aren’t enough (if any) research studies on how medicines affect women differently, and how women have different markers/indicators for certain diseases or conditions like heart attacks: EVERYTHING that has been studied until recently has been done so by men. for whatever reason, there was no forethought to include women as trial subjects or our psychology/physiology data as relevant or worth considering separately.
we don’t even know what we don’t know about the totality of the human condition because HALF of the population has been left out of the sample group. 🤦🏾♀️
Once you've lived through it enough, you know how to spot the signs pretty quickly.
@doctorberkowitzthere are a lot of subtle body language signs, tone of voice. Super passive aggression, they intentionally try to get you mentally confused.
No. Because there's traces that linger on your insecurities and once you were made to think the problem is you it's hard to get out of it. You can but it takes time and therapy.
This is especially true and happens all the time in workplaces. Instead of helping each other, women push each other under the bus all the time, as if there was a place for just “one woman” in the company/department. They can be worse than men in the workplace and no one talks about it. This needs to be acknowledged.
Absolutely. I got fired once because a female co worker lied about me to get herself out of trouble.
The way those women treat male and female co-workers is so different you can't even say anything to your superiors. They just won't believe you because "she is so nice!"
I have had this done to me by adult women in the workplace and as a child by a girl who was the"queen bee." These women are taught this behavior early in their lives by women relatives and/or piers. It is extremely damaging as the aim of this behavior is to outcast, undermine, and destroy the psyche of the person that it's aimed at. I steer clear of woman's groups because of this.
It's pure evil
Yes I only really have one-on-one friendships, I find it way to difficult to be friends in groups. Far too much btchy behaviour and cold war tactics against people in the group by others in the group. I steer clear of it, if they wanna be your friend you usually find out one-on-one if they like you or if they have a gripe with you by their behaviour towards you, not their behaviour towards others about you. Group situations are just too much for me.
@@seelogic9845I’m the same and since I’ve become very deaf, even though I wear hearing aids I still prefer to have a one to one conversation with a friend.
Call me a cynic if you want, but I'm skeptical that this behavior is taught.
@michaelkrull3331 if you are literally thinking it's "taught" I can see why you might think that. But keep in mind modeling behavior is also a teaching mechanism. Kids observe their parents behavior and mimic it to some extent. But it would also be true to say in some cases that some parents don't want to cope with their children's difficult behavior and choose to ignore it.
Sadly my daughter is already experiencing this stuff from girls her age and she’s only 12. When she was 9 and in ballet class she dealt with it then too. Girls learn this stuff at a very young age but I’m trying to teach my daughter what a real friend looks like and to move on from these types of girls.
Rooting for you, you go mom! Love is found within. May God bless your family
Now, let's add Autism to this bullying business. Can you please make a video apond how bad it is when these girls or "regular people ' bullying the Autistic folks, with the same tactics.
I know that it is not nice, but cruel. I have been there as the victim. Now as a grown up it doesn't always get better. Our circle is so much smaller. Then we feel our hands tied up so much worse than ever. When we know our children are going thru it at a much bigger scale because of social media. Are we as society ever going to stop being cruel at crushing down others⁉️
The NEED/instinct to assimilate is terrifyingly powerful, I hope for the best.
Wish I could've had someone like you when I went through the worst of this! Great parenting!
Kuddos for teaching your daughter on what to look for in real friends! It is extremely sad for me someone who is in her thirties to see women still caught up in the same “friendenemy” pattern way into adulthood.
They also will complain about you behind your back or whisper about you to others whilst looking at you
I have a sister that does this to me and funnily enough she's an RN, lol. Very passive aggressive and so very entitled.Makes sure I am watching her when she is talking to other people as if she is whispering.The last few years has created a bigger type of monster- those in the medical field, who's egos were overinflated. I'm an ex nurse, now Disability Carer, and I chose to jump ship in Oct 21. I was there to care for my patient's health, not to play "Lets follow the Leader without questioning."😢
This is even worse than the typical male bullying, at least you can fight back. When a bad rumor about you starts, clearing it up can be hell
Yes, especially when you have no idea what the rumour is. Sometimes everybody just starts excluding you and you have no idea why, what was said to be able to dispel it. Brutal.
@@elaizakaguya4631 bullying is bullying, it's all bad. I'm sure if you ask a boy who was beaten up regularly by a bully he will tell you there was psychological damage done. Yea the bruises healed but his self esteem is non existent. Bullying is the worst thing that can happen to a person regardless of the methods
@elaizkaguy The truth eventually comes out, it's just a matter of time. A good maturity and consciousness test though, so you know the depth of character of the people that surround you, and how far you can really trust them
There IS such a thing as female toxicity and this is exactly what he is talking about. I get so tired of other women blatantly ignoring female bullying in the guise of false feminism. True feminism is impossible until this elephant in the room is addressed.
Clearing it up really only happens one person at a time when someone tries to talk to you about it and you get a chance to tell the truth.
I went through this in high school and then in my past career. I was used to it by then and it didn’t bother me. My supervisor came to me and asked me if I wanted to file a complaint because she heard the nasty rumors about me. I laughed and told her it was nothing in comparison to high school. I was prepared. I ignored the rumors and when someone would ask me if the rumors were true I would tell them yes and say that’s what you want to believe anyway. My introversion helped because I never responded just ignored it. Years later a few of the ladies apologized to me and admitted being jealous. I couldn’t believe it. They said they felt bad because I was so kind.
Wow, thank you for sharing that. Something to keep in mind, that they can grow and change.
@ Yes it surprised me. It is possible. Life will change you.
My supervisor was the one spearheading the bullying!
@ lawsuit
Jealous of what exactly??
I only got bullied by boys at school, so now I'm experiencing bullying by women for the first time in my 30's at work lol
Exclusion, yes, but frequently also trying to play the victim and paint me and other co-worker as the aggressors if we stand up for ourselves. It is very fascinating. She once said something to our boss that almost got another woman fired, and when said woman blocked her online, she cried and tried to make everyone pity HER because blocking her was so mean!
That is amazing. Wow.
This really helps me to define what exactly it was that a former female boss did to me. I worked with college students as a close advisor, not just helping choose classes, but overcoming barriers and such. Every idea I came up with, she denied me the opportunity to commit, and shortly later would have someone else do it. She wouldn't let me directly communicate with the students (wtf) but it had to go through her office. She would avoid answering questions that needed addressed. I knew she was a bully, but had a hard time explaining it.
Suddenly every moment my mom has ever done this to me, even growing up, has magically lit up in my brain and i feel extremely validated.
@@rcchargers sorry you had to deal with that with your Mom. I can relate
@@3moon3witch3 So can I. And my 16 years older sister also did it to me. Both of them together.
Me, too.
As a teenager I recognized this and avoided those girls. The problem is then you end up alone because so many girls do this or are friends with somebody who does it. It felt easier to friend guys because they were so obvious or out with their drama or nonsense so it felt easier to see when they have a problem with you or not.
fr its so sickening
This hit a cord. I self isolated from girls like this when I was in high school. Made more guy friends because they're relaxed and nice to be around instead of the anxiousness of being around the drama queens.
Growing up, I learned to pick my closest friends (no matter if they were boys or girls). The smaller your circle the better.
The sad thing is you could get accused of being a pick me cause you're trying to avoid toxic females lol
I was also exposed to this behavior growing up as a female. My option was to stay true to who I was and avoid as much as possible these situations. I did make friends who also were trying to keep to themselves. The chief bully (in my opinion) came up to me and expressed admiration "for my behavior"toward the end of high school. It's not impossible, but it is a difficult choice.
@@nostalgicbliss5547 THISS ugh i hate it so much, but you can tell the girls who tell u that are toxic themselves lol
If you’re attractive, you’ll notice that these people can’t wait to point out your mistakes and will make a huge deal about your imperfections.
It is actually despicable. I encountered this at my last job. We (two FULLY GROWN adult women) had to work in the same office room and she somehow got her knickers in a twist about me and convinced an ENTIRE OFFICE of adults to literally give me the silent treatment. We all ate lunch together and they would talk and laugh and the minute i chimed in, everyone went silent. When i finally confronted her about it her response was "oh, haha..idk" like ma'am. Just say you have a problem with me and we dont have to interact. She tried to get me fired every chance she got but i, ya know, did my job and worked hard, so they didnt have a real reason. Truly unreal.
@@elisarambo1 Wao, I'm just speechless reading about this. Can't believe grown ups still act like this... And at work!! And in the Health Field where it is supposed to be the place where people take a better care of each other (or at least that's how I pictured it would be 🙄
Anyways..
I just hope you work now in a way better environment
PS: I would've loved being your bestie then, and working with you, just to show them how people should really be treated (with kindness and love of course)
They would've probably git me fired real quick. But at least I would've like being by your side then when everyone were such mean people (to show them you weren't alone 🥺)
I hope you have good friends with you, and live a beautiful life ❤️
lmao, I would turn that around on them and start talking incessantly. If you're going to be quiet when I talk it must be because you're a captivated audience listening intently to my every word! 🤣
Sounds like a lot of low-key racists I've had the misfortune of having to be around throughout my life... they never really grow up. And it's hard to call them out... and yet, they have no real reason to not like me from day one.
That’s really hurtful to be around on a daily basis.
Had the same thing happen to me in a govt job many decades ago when I was young. My ‘boss’ (really only my supervisor) was mad when I was friendly with someone she didn’t like in the same office. Suddenly she stopped talking to me and wouldn’t give me any more jobs to do and was waiting for me to do nothing and get fired, I guess?!?! I went to her boss and told him what was happening. I think that really surprised her. She stopped acting like that. This was a very nice woman too. It was a shocking situation for a young girl girl as I was
I got the Solution for this Issue. Ignore them back and dont show them any emotions. They will stop if they dont get any Emotions back from their bullying. They will try to get into your head but stay cold as ice and they will stop and will search for another victim. The key is not to respond emotional to their actions!
Wow, this puts the exclusion I faced all throughout childhood into a different perspective!
Turns out my shyness, social awkwardness, being different (then-unknown neurodivergent), and not knowing how to interact and fit in with people (especially fellow females), despite repeated efforts, may have been only half of the equation. The other half being that they weren't just clique-ish, already established, tightly knit friend groups, they were bullies, deliberately shunning and excluding and quietly whispering to each other behind your back. This is quite a revelation and makes a lot of things make a lot more sense.
This is gonna take some processing, but feels like it could be healing.
Thank you, Dr. K!🥲
I hope you feel better
As a guy, bullying may be different, but I saw many times how my sister was treated by her classmates. Truly toxic behavior. Sorry you went through that
Good luck out there anti! Hope you're doing better now
Experienced it too, like many others here. You are definitely not alone ❤️🍀 it’s heartbreaking how many people suffer. I love this community and how supportive it is. I wish there had been a ‘Dr. K’ when I was in school 😐-it might have saved me years of self-doubt. But even though it feels late to have this revelation- it’s never too late to start healing and rebuilding trust in ourselves. Wishing you -and everyone else -strength on your journey❤
Its so sad too because a lot of people will say you're a red flag if you don't have friends or many other things that come with the ramifications of being neurodivergent or if we simply choose to value ourselves more than trying to fit in / people please a group of bullies.
I had a female bully at work. She was super passive-aggressive with it. We got along very well, until I called her out on something she said about me behind my back, and she instantly spread rumors about me. Horrible, two-faced, and toxic person.
This kind of bullying is really harmful to female friendships too. So many times I've heard a niece or someone younger explain to me how they think their friend is mad at them and doing things to "ruin their life".
But sometimes it turns out they're wrong. Their friend *wasn't* trying to bully or hurt them - they were just paranoid and/or misinterpreting things and they end up hurting their friend in retaliation for something they never even did.
I've seen girls spread vicious rumors about their friends because they worm wrongly believe they were doing something to them. It really must suck having to be in a constant cold war with your friends.
At least with my guy friends growing up of we had a problem we would usually physically fight over it and then it would be over.
Girls are discouraged from being vulnerable with each other, we live in a culture where romance is the only relationship that matters, so a lot of girls see each other as company while they're single and as a competition to get a boy.
This is why I hate when red pills say that women are united and coming for them. I wish! Women can use misogyny to diminish other women in a way to elevate themselves before men, the probability of women discrediting is much higher.
Man you perfectly described my experience. I spent most of my times with my mother and sister and cousins and saw how they just make up a whole scenario in their mind and accusations without any evidence just to excuse their “retaliation” or rumors on that said person.
And the thing is that it has affected my personality a lot and has made me socially anxious and overly self conscious and so timid, cuz i think everyone is always judging and gossiping. And hard to unlearn this
That is such a good point. I'm remembering times that may have been the case in my own friendships
Cold War is such an apt description
If women never make false accusations though how is it possible for her to be wrong? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Are you sure it was actually a misinterpretation?
To be fair, male bullies will definitely engage in both kinds of bullying, but the physical/direct bullying is so much more obvious that the rest often just gets ignored completely as if it didn’t exist, but it absolutely does.
Don’t let anyone tell you that “X isn’t bullying because Y is bullying.” Both are bullying and both are abusive and wrong, and both should be discouraged and never defended, by anyone, under any circumstance. Just because one kind of abuse looks obviously terrible doesn’t mean another kind of bullying isn’t still bullying, and a lot of people do actually make that exact argument - it happens all the time.
What is even more disgusting is that nowadays there is a mix of these two aggressive behaviors.
Both men and women will use verbal and physical aggression, and this indirect bullying that's actually more direct than people want to admit. Not to mention engaging in spreading fake rumors, false accusations based on bias and assumptions, fabricating lies by adding small pieces of truth to make it seem like a real situation. Also passive aggressiveness and fake compliments are so often used and it's not much addressed. It is but just very superficially, and only at the workplace, where you're supposed to be professional. But ...nobody actually reads that annual mandatory read, you just click "agree" and that's it. If the team is tiny, retaliation will definitely take place.
Thanks for bringing this to light! As an autistic female, I was a target for bullying and didn't understand girl's behavior until I got older and figured it out. Not all females are bullies, but those who are likely have pain in them they don't know what to do about so they hurt others. Shout out to the females who don't let their pain turn them into bullies! I appreciate you!
I needed to hear this. Thank you. I don’t understand why people hurt others to make themselves feel better. I could never hurt someone like I’ve been hurt. I’m on the spectrum and it’s made me a target far too many times. I’ve just realised that my brother’s partner is also doing this to me. It’s just stupid. Wishing you love and light 💕💕💕
This happened to me recently, where a girl was ignoring me but talking to my bf at work. He didn’t get why I was so upset. He said “she’s not saying anything mean to you, so you should be fine”. She made a point to joke around with my bf though and got the other girls in her department to ignore me too. As much as I tried to explain to my bf that what bothering me is that she was bullying me and knew she could get away with it, he wasn’t getting it. So annoying.
you could try to explain to him why you think you are being bullied
As a guy, and if he's interested, I think it's more efficient for you to show him Shorts like this or the full video this was based on.
As a guy, we're ignorant about it unless we had a sister or mother describe or demonstrate this. We're naturally focused on keeping you physically safe from other guys, not look for threats among other women.
If you begin to get frustrated, he might be less receptive because he can't see what you see. By showing him impartial information like this, perhaps he can look for the subtle signs on his own. I hope that helps.
@@nutronstar45 I explained by saying basically saying what the guy in the video said.
@@daniellegore9279 did you ask him what exactly does he not get?
Red flag! 🚩 Find someone who wants to understand you and cares about your feelings instead of invalidating you and telling you that you should feel differently and it’s not a big deal. Anyone who tries to ignore you while engaging with someone you are intimately connected with is trying to dismiss, minimize, and make you feel small, it is a form of bullying. If your partner is present and this happens and can’t “understand” the problem with this behavior then he is also an active participant and is secretly telling you how he really feels about you. Honor yourself, value your life, and protect yourself from anyone who feels comfortable with diminishing you. God bless.
This is precisely the reason I tended to stay away from other girls & just befriend guys growing up. Hell, I still do to this day. If guys have a problem with you, they will (typically) let you know upfront. That doesn't seem to (typically) be the case with girls/women.
That's not to say I avoided all other girls/women. I have a small handful of girlfriends who I *know* I can rely on, but I'm definitely more selective of my female friendships in comparison to male friendships for this very reason.
I relate to this comment. I find men are easier to talk to and I don't have to worry about everything I say. Men aren't going to be jealous of me or worry I'm going to take their wife, lol. I'm a friendly open person and if people misinterpret that, then I really feel sorry for them. I have female friends, but I'm always on my guard because of past experiences, even with family members. When your new husband even says, out of the blue that, "you are treated like Cinderella", you know it's not in your mind. 😢
At the first signs just put distance.
I honestly had bad situations, specially during my childhood because I wasnt pretty enough and it kinda did some pretty bad damage.
Now growing up i despise superficial behaviours, like gossiping etc.
Recognize the signs and just back off, specially with certain "friends".
You dont need them and they clearly dont want you.
Sometimes being pretty makes you a target too. If I told you the amount of hate I've gotten from women and the amount of men who think of me as an object to try and use for their own personal pleasure only, you might have a different opinion about the benefits of being "pretty". It can do a lot of damage too. I'm sorry you were bullied. I've been through some nasty stuff too and I know it sucks. I hope you are healing.
@ella17734 I worked on myself a lot and still doing, It's going better indeed. It's sad because watching the world through those eyes gives you a very bad perspective like "oh so this it's what people are, deep down" which can be a difficult mindset to get rid off. Good people exist as bad people out there, thankfully.
I have this phrase that I love to say that helped me a lot : " there's more to see than the eyes can show".
@@ella17734 Yeah, pissing off the wrong girl just for existing can bring hell upon you.
@ella17734 and when you try to talk to someone about it, the adult says, "It's bc you're too good looking." As if that is supposed to make everything ok and the hate worth it. Wtf?
@@Jennyonthehill7035not to mention how confusing it is to hear your entire life about "pretty privilege", but get randomly hated for existing or daring to feel good about yourself. Some of the prettiest & nicest women I've met are the loneliest & insecure because everyone assumes they're privileged or egotistical & need to be humbled. So their lived reality & how they see themselves ends up being the total opposite of what ppl assume.
Yeah as a girl that got bullied by both girls and boys growing up. The 1 Boy attacked me physically and other boys would yell at me about how stupid and ugly I was with their friend group.
The girls were always about mind games.
Ostracization was common with girls. You are the only one in the class not invited to a B- Day party, but usually that will let you know not to get near them because you are beneath them. Then there are people who become your friends and turn around and use everything you talked about with them to terrorize and torment you later. (this happened a lot) My friend group in middle school decided to start bullying after someone left the group to hang out with her boyfriend. And I was the new target for the bully's mind game to keep in control of the other girls. She kicked me out with the rest of the girls not able to look me in the eye with their heads down. Then they started shoving nasty letters in to my desk. I'm assuming she wrote a whole ass fanfic about me to try to shame me at one point (10 legal-size pages printed out during computer class ... ) fucking wild! I was so done with it all even though it hurt.
In grade 9 I became a target of the next group of 12 girls. They mostly called me all sort of nasty things to other people who were earshot and drilled chalk into my back when the teacher was looking. I was fortunate enough to make another proper friend group that year. So I let the bullying happen and did not react to it because there was no point considering the 2 girls that started the hate fest in their group were in my classes. However in high school you get into classes that are mixed ages as electives. They tried to shit talk about me to a girl that was 2 years older and she called them out on it. First time in my life a person let alone a stranger defended me from the slander. LUL
My mom as an ECE was always dealing with and seeing female bullying in the daycares she worked at. It was either the parent or the staff but it was always there like they never got out of high school.
@@WARPAINTandUnicorns Oh yeah, that was my experience at my first job at a daycare. The boss did it and several other people did too. The reason for the bullying was because I was respected by the older preschool students. I met the kids where they were at age wise and made it clear that being an adult wasn't all fun and games. And when I had to say no, my no was respected the first time I said it. And also because I would get down and safely wrestle with them. Essentially, I made learning fun. My ADHD made it easy for me to connect with the kids. The boss and other staff were full of petty jealousy that I was so popular without trying. I simply was doing my best to be a good role model for how to be a decent human in a society that doesn't necessarily reward or appreciate genuine effort to be a decent human. Pretty sick isn't it? That job nearly broke me.
It was the adults that made it toxic. The kids were sweethearts, even when they were having meltdowns or throwing tantrums. Hell, I had a 3 year old behave better than a bunch of adults in the same room. Even when they were having a meltdown! Utterly pathetic.
Sad stuff
When my daughters were in high school, the mean, popular girls would make them feel invisible… They would never confront them with what they did wrong and deal with an issue and so my daughters were left feeling unsure of what to change or what to apologize for. it was horrible and destroyed their self esteem. The mean girls could never be disciplined for it because they “didn’t do anything”. It was heartbreaking to watch as a parent.
Add Autism to the mix, and it is much more cruel. When one has been thru it because of the undiagnosed Autism it becomes worse to see our children go thru what one did. Now, with social media, it is multiple. I feel my hands tied, no matter how I try helping my child. Autism, Anxiety, and other. Good therapy is not helping, either.
Female bullying can also be physical. I know from experience.
Totally agree, specially in schools
@@nadamohamed7109And they always get away with it
Yes. Mother.
Yyyyyeap.
Yes we know. He was speaking in generalities
I was bullied ruthlessly from 7th grade through high school graduation.
Of course, it was all about exclusion. The girls who bullied me, though, did not only shun me, they manipulated others to shun me AND they set me up to look stupid in front of others which made me self exclude as well…so much so that it was only in my late 30’s and beyond when I realized that, perhaps, the guys who asked me out in high school were actually sincere. They were not friends with these girls, but I was so traumatized that I just accepted that everyone was in on it.
A woman who had been in my class, 5 years after graduation, told me that nobody in her group understood how I could come to school and maintain a sunny attitude all day, everyday, with the way those girls treated me. This was a relief because, by that time I thought maybe I imagined all of that…since there was nothing physical about it and nobody seemed to notice but me when it was going on.
Around the same time, I had a good friend who I had gone through school with (k-12) and neither of us ever liked each other. One night he invited me to go to a party at the home of one of “those girls.” I told him that I was not welcome to go, and he said I was being ridiculous, so I went.
About 5 minutes after arriving, I was made keenly aware that I was unwelcome. So, I took a beer, went outside, and enjoyed the night air and looking at the stars.
About 15 minutes later, my friend came exploding out of the house, growled angrily at me, “WE’RE LEAVING,” and barrelled down the driveway. I yelled after him to slow down and stop. He did. He was fuming. Fire was coming out of his eyes.
I asked him, “what’s wrong?”
He bellowed at me, “DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SAYING ABOUT YOU?!?”
I smiled. I said, “Erik, I have never known what they were saying about me, and now, I don’t care.”
He softened, looked bewildered, and asked, “was I like that in high school?”
I just said, “well, they are your friends.”
The ride home was silent.
You're great story teller. I was very intrigued. Kudos to you for remaining true to yourself despite their nasty behaviour. And that last line...stella! I bet that got him to introspect about his entire life up until that point.
They also tell lies and start a smear campaign. 😂 I went through it more as an adult at one of my jobs. They all got fired! 😊
HAHAHAHAHAAHA
for smearing crap about you they got fired
Same. But I got fired, too. It’s really a major problem, not just in schools, but in Corp America. Mean girls grow up to be Mean women.
@smartmarketing173 Yeahup, it's a major problem in corporate.(thats where i was). I thought I was the only one going through it as most people never heard of it, at least with how vicious they got.
They made it seem like I was the problem. *Jealousy was the problem!*
The manager of one of the HR reps who got fired was left behind and he tried to Trump up bs complaints about me in an effort to get me fired and it always backfired on him. I had to get the President of HR for the company involved. I was about to sue their a$$. They ended up giving me a payout when the company sold. It was a horrible time in my life. As much as I signed an NDA, I will be writing about it.
@@ntitus3025 how did they get fired?
My daughter went through all your points throughout highschool and beyond, plus throw social media in...a huge factor in today's world. Depression, anxiety and suicides have increased greatly since 2010. I can see why Australia is attempting to set new boundaries with the under 16 age group. Glad this topic has been brought up!
I’m a woman who worked for 24 years in the public works design and construction field. Men can do these things too, but you make an excellent point. I feel like this is a whole area of anti feminist behavior that isn’t addressed enough. Men have learned to set up good olde boy networks, but women often seem to compeat over whatever scraps of power that are left for us.
Male antisocial behavior is criminalized but female one isn’t and isnt even focused on, thats why men do that too.
@@crepusculey863 I feel like men just aren’t wired to behave like this and they just don’t care enough to do these things. I’m being general of course. When they do, they know this type of behavior largely goes unnoticed and unchecked so the narcissists and others take advantage. Soft power gets you ahead in today’s world anyway, men have little to nothing to gain from physically asserting themselves.
Men can do these things too but I feel like they’re just not that wired for it and they especially have zero desire to. Typically the men that do these things are the narcissists and such. Asserting yourself physically gets you almost no where.
Men can do these things too but I feel like they’re just not that wired for it and they especially seem to have zero desire to. Typically the men that do these things are the ones with personality disorders or just know this method is the name of the game, because asserting yourself physically gets you almost nowhere.
@ true
It’s psychological abuse. It’s meant to break your ego and self-worth. A person has to possess a strong core identity to be resilient and not allow the emotional and psychological tactics affect them.
This type of abuse is just as destructive as physical because the injuries cause mental health issues. It affects the person’s self-esteem, personality and mental well-being.
Exactly 💯 %
How to develop strong core identity tho
@ Healing yourself and traumas. Facing your shadow and doing the shadow work. Learn to recognize your ego versus the soul.
I am a women but if i work in a male environment its often not the males pulling me down. It is just before you go into a meeting the secretary (the only other women) pulls me aside "are you sure you are up to this? Just when you are nervous they use that. They would never dare to say something like that to any man just before he goes into an important meeting.
It's so sneaky, because they can say they are just looking out for you.
Or the other one; "Oh. You're using that approach? You're very brave..."
And if you call them out on it *you* looked deranged. Gaah.😅
if you are nervous you probably look nervous as well. Maybe that created concern in your secretary?
Their comment is not appropriate for the situation though. An interviewee needs affirmation not doubt. That should be a basic philosophy because there's no real danger in an interview it's just anxiety, you need confidence, that's not what gave her lol. @@Sotebolikurac
@Sotebolikuracstop tryna gaslight them
I am a man but was best friends with someone in highschool that ostracized me from my entire group of friends. It took a long time for me to recover and grow from that- and I always felt like I could never label or make sense of how I felt. It was awful and worse than anything
@@peter7077 ❣️
Thank you for this, this is the topic no one talks about and it's spread all over the society.
The example given was spot on. It happens all the time no matter the professional or non professional setting. Another thing they’ll do is ensure you’re a source of their humour so they can make themselves look better. But it was “just a joke” so you can’t overreact. I absolutely hate it. I’ve not found a good way to deal with it except avoiding these people as much as possible.
Yes, and this is the type of bullying present in the workfield. People aren't likely to fight. They will start and spread rumors
The only thing we can do for ourselves is learn how to be passive aggressive back, so we can defend ourselves without overreacting.
@@claudiabcarvalho but then i feel like i'm stopping to their level/being petty and not my authentic self... who is NOT a mean girl....................
@@nellieshoals in all honesty.
Love them.
Love them, and tell them you truly like them. Tell them things that you see they do and are trying to do. Tell them thank you over everything. Be extra kind, extra sweet. They start leaving you alone. Because you don't react the way they want.
And if you love them, you start to see their behavior as very saddening, but not for you, but for them. Showing genuine sorrow and concern to them over this behavior is something alot of the time none of them expect. And alot of times it makes them infuriated because your showing them something they are not, genuine.
I always thought I was just sensitive, thank you for validating my experience
I was bullied a lot as a child (girl), almost exclusively by girls. Whereas I got nothing more than direct, light teasing from boys and it was rare. Listening to your words made my skin crawl. It’s very accurate.
i am a male victim of emotional abuse by ex female partners but it gets so hard when people automatically assume i was the bad guy when they were so brutal and cruel to me on so many occasions
they get EXTREMELY cruel and VERY dangerous when they start turning people against the victim when the victim starts to try to stand up for themselves etc
it can be very dangerous too when they start to try to act like they are the victim too just to try to get the house in a seperation etc
people tend to AUTOMATICALLY assume that the guy is the one who was abusive even when he tries to get help
in one time i went to try to get help from the police because i knew my ex was going to try to kill me but i got laughed at by the (female) cop and the cop told me to go home
then my ex tried to kill me but luckily i woke up just before she did
please have a heart for guys.. a lot of us are victims of abuse BECAUSE we would not hurt them when they are cruel to us
i hope life will be good for all good hearted people and that you find someone who TRULY loves and values you and cares about how you feel
Best wishes from Rolland in Scotland
edit: they suck us back into wanting them when we try to get away from them by being super nice to us then they get cruel again when we get hooked on them again
Thank you for speaking on this! It is hard to prove as a woman that another woman is against you, without looking as if you are the perpetrator. Very insidious the dark feminine energy is and can be wicked when not used correctly.
I (a woman) was bullied relentlessly growing up by other girls. I naturally gravitated towards more male-dominated interests, but I was pushed even farther into them because of the bullying and exclusion from other girls.
As an adult, however, my strongest friendships are mainly the girls who didn't bully me as we grew up together and now I have known them for nearly two decades. The male friends I made in that same time period... nowhere to be found, aside from the one I introduced to my best friend in highschool and they got married. 😅
But these are definitely structures that are inflicted by the way society treats women and men, in combination with the way testosterone fundamentally changes a person's personality and impulses.
Yup, I've struggled with making friends throughout my life and this is the reoccurring theme in the majority of situations.
This happened to me at work… ugh. Thank you for doing the work that you do!! I love learning about this and finding ways to cope/deal with it.
Unbelievable that people do this at work. It's hard to believe. I'm thankful I was an engineer (female).
Girls can be the worst at bullying. I was bullied. I vividly remember two particular girls who I knew 100000% didn’t like me. They were waiting to be picked up from school and my dad had just arrived for me. As we left, they called out “bye” and waved. I didn’t acknowledge it at all. Then I spent the next twenty minutes home being lectured by my dad for being extremely impolite and rude. It was so awful that I was sobbing long before we got home. He wouldn’t even hear my reasoning. There was no excuse just rudeness and punishment. The injustice of it all really hurt. I knew full well that had I replied they’d have made my life even more of a hellish place. It’s now been a good 30 years but that’s one incident that is still fresh in my mind. It was awful and it was made so much worse by my dad.
…..and no, I’ve not forgiven him either. It still smacks of betrayal and it hurts to know he didn’t have my back and didn’t even care to listen to me.
I had similar experiences. It's so terrible when parents don't understand and back us up. It makes us feel less safe in the world.
Growing up and raised by a single father, it was hard for me to understand other girls. I hung out with boys because I understood them, they were direct and not secretive or gossipy. They would talk sh*t to your face instead of behind your back. I always felt it to be easier. As a married woman, I’ve learned to adapt to having close female friends in my life and while I love them, I still think men are easier to understand and interact with. I used to get excluded by girls when I was younger and I never understood why. I was kind and funny. I even was a bit trendy. Lmao. They were just catty and mean. Still makes me cringe. Worked out for the best anyway!
Honestly gud for you ..even some guys are like that but you didn't met them they are the "deadly combo"😂
I have gone through this my whole life with female family members. It's never ending.
Yes, one of my older sisters has Never spoken to me unless she's trying to look normal in front of other family members. She simply excludes from me everything 100% and I have no idea why. It's happened since I was a kid and she was a young adult. I didn't even do anything, I was just a kid! It's hurt me my entire life to Feel her intense disapproval and I don't think there's any way to get over it except to say "she's just a btch to me for no reason" to explain it to eg my boyfriend or friends when they ask why she never speaks to me. I don't think I'll ever know why, I can only ever guess as to possible reasons.
@@seelogic9845 she’s getting off on your seeking her validation. Next time she pulls this stunt just say out loud that you enjoy being around folks who appreciate me and value my presence. Too bad some don’t, but that’s their problem not mine. 🤗
It was always funny to me when girls/women thought that excluding me was hurting my feelings somehow.
When it came to the rumors and indirect aggression, I found that being direct with them and not backing down when they gaslight usually got them to back off.
"this how they do" was _very_ uncle/aunty energy and I'm her for it 😂
i have a male "friend" who acts like this, lol. really passive aggressive and feels the need to put me down everytime.
@@commentatorefautitivo That's no friend.
Friends don't even THINK about wanting to hurt their friend, ever. Please stop associating with him asap. You should never put up with or tolerate anyone disrespecting you. Sending you all the best..💖
@@donnamariedavidson5065 it's difficult unfortunately. we are in the same friend group, we all guys, but he appears more charismatic etc... so everything he does, it's good for everyone. but when you call him out, you are the sensitive one (ironic, since one time I did the same to him and he got PISSED)
I am autistic and this traumatized me to this day. I still have issues befriending women because of this, I always feel scared and insecure. Its sad, I love people but I have such a hard time now trusting people because I usually just realize the damage way too late
Me too. You’re not alone 💕💕💕
Totally agree and experienced it a lot growing up. The isolation was very painful but I learned to handle it better in my adult years. I embrace it and do my best to exude warmth and friendliness towards others.
I’m glad it’s being called out because some women can be down right calculated and spiteful while being low key and it’s down right dangerous. This type of advice can definitely help us avoid having people like this in our lives/circle 👍
It can escalate into physical aggression too, if left unchecked. I was very unpopular at school and got the usual treatment. Then they set my waistlength black (which annoyed them) hair on fire. Hair goes up *really* fast and is super dangerous. They had a good laugh while i was beating the flames out and, luckily, wasn't injured.
I cut the rest off and told my mum that id decided to go punk because I'd given up on trying to get any resolution and had decided to just try to survive the last couple of years at school.
(Sorry for the long post. Cathartic ranting, I think 😅 )
Did you call the cops on them?
I'm sorry that happened to you. You did not deserve it.
1000% call the cops. That was horrific assault that you just "took".
Thank you
Some people don't think it be like it is, but it do.
I do see this sometimes in adult women's groups. When I was growing up, my mother was not interested in gossiping or being around backstabbing women. Our high school wasn't much into bullying. 50 years ago in a small town, even though some smaller towns had strong cliques. I was mostly around men since we had a sawmill, and I worked for the RR. When I started joining womens groups, they were spiritual, and it was interesting trying to learn their language. At that time, I was doing a lot of strong yoga, so emotional stuff was getting cleared out. I am listening to be aware and figuring out what to say when I observe it. All the best to those who have gone through this violence.
One thing I always see happening: girl A goes to a social event with girl B, and girl A's bully comes and goes like "heyyy girl B! I missed you so much I want to talk with you the whole day"
As an autistic girl, I got absolutely tortured by other girls as a kid. I didn’t understand social cues so I would often go along with sincerely with what these girls said, not realizing they were trying to bully me. I was so clueless at the start that one of the girls had to stop me when I started to respond sincerely to something said and she had to explain to me, “No, I’m trying to make fun of you.”
Once I realized what they were doing, it hurt and never stopped. I could never tell when anyone was being sincere. From then on I knew socializing wasn’t worth the pain. I am so used to being unwanted and harassed in any given space that in my adulthood, coworkers were shocked to see me respond to playful ribbing as if it were serious. I’d walk into a room and a woman in the middle of a conversation would groan, go, “Ugh, here SHE is.” I’d go, “Oh, okay, sorry.” And leave right away. Only for her to hurry to me and tell me she was just joking, they weren’t really talking bad about me. I believe her, I know I’m the one that doesn’t have the correct understanding of people but I spent so much of my life needing to suss out signs that I was secretly not welcome because usually that was the case.
People who act this way are not joking they are intentionally trying to make you feel small and unwelcome. Your interpretation was not wrong and your response to leave was correct. She came back to say she was joking because she tried to save face because when you left it also put a spotlight on her inappropriate behavior towards you and she felt embarrassed.
But people shouldn't be saying such insensitive things to others. I feel it's very unkind. One of my brothers said something similar at a family function and I was in tears. He had no idea that other female family members had been isolating me for decades. It's not funny, especially if they wouldn't like that said to them. I'm sorry you went through that.❤
We talk about toxic masculinity a lot but no one mentions toxic female behaviour. It's just as rampant and breaks so many relationships
And with relationships it is the same. Abuse by a woman is nothing you can show a doctor or go to the police for but the damage is the same
Well obviously the damage is not the same, because your comparing emotional damage to physical damage, which are two different things. They are not the same things, or there wouldn't be different words for them.
@@balthasardenner5216the magnitude of damage is the same. I've had lots of people who were emotionally abused say they'd rather be physically abused if they had the choice. bc emotional abuse poisons your mind forever.
EDIT: this is not to talk down physical abuse vs. emotional. I just think the opposite shouldn't be done either
@@balthasardenner5216the same as in equally as damaging. I think you know what that person means and are just being rude and picking an argument. When a man is abusing a woman it’s taken very seriously. There’s so much help and resources out there. But when women are abusing men they can’t do much. Even when women physically abuse men it’s not taken as seriously.
It really depends, when they feel like they have no consequences, the physical abuse tends to come next.
@@kissenklauer7011
That argument really falls through, though, as physical abuse almost always goes hand in hand with emotional abuse. Or do you think guys who beat or otherwise assault their partners are pleasant human beings outside of these violent episodes? How do you think they get their victims to stay in relationships with them, sometimes for years, except by threats and manipulation and mind games? A woman who was physically abused was almost always *also* emotionally/mentally abused. So don't you dare compare the two scenarios and say, it's 'equally bad'. No it isn't. Come back to me, when you've been beaten up or r-worded by a man considerably bigger and stronger than you and then we can talk, how much 'words hurt'. Smdh.
This is so true. Also in business, social groops, sports etc. If you are the person on the other side you are screwed if you live in a small town 😅
As a woman who has faced bullying, this is very accurate. Woman tend to take things verbaly, like excluding you from conversations and/or plans.
This is atleest the type I faced.
There’s also the recruiting all the other girls to exclude and choose sides. It isn’t just the bully leaving out the bullied but getting all the other kids to exclude her too.
A deeper form of bullying that is damaging and low degrading from someone who is hiding their own insecurities.. .never unnoticed, finds a way through.
Very passive aggressive...I've worked with co-workers and managers who were female who behaved just like that.
Im a female and I was bullied by boys growing up. I didnt have girls my age in our neighborhood. I never learned how girls respond to eachother. By the time i was in middle school, i was silenced by the boys and shunned by the girls. I didn't talk to anyone for four years (4-9). By 9th grade, kids changed. New groups were formed and i drifted between groups, but was always the outcast.
I still don't have friends.
I'm married and my husband is my best and only friend. We understand each other.
Bro was on point with his example. I could feel the rage.
I didn’t even know I was bullied. I didn’t know that everyone else knew I was bullied. I thought I might just not be a likeable person until one day my mother was approached by the mothers of two classmates who said their kids had told them that rumors were being spread about me. The most painful part wasn’t even the ringleader’s scheming, it was that no one dared to say a thing to my face or at least tell me about the bigger picture of what was happening, because then I would’ve been able to discredit the rumours. It took the ringleader physically pushing me to the ground calling me a waste of space in front of our classmates for them to recognise the fault wasn’t mine
I stopped going to an art class with a regular small group of students because i was targetted by a jealous classmate - would interrupt every time the teacher was explaining something to me, set up her equipment too close to me & always timing it so i couldn't get help from teacher (she could have just waited), used and took my equipment in the middle of a task, talked about me to teacher in their native language, got her instruction in that language so i couldn't share learning, and when she realised teacher & i had one on one time after everyone left, she set up drawings & asked for & kept the teacher 10 minutes over time to make sure i had no time.
I had a couple of times said things like where's my brush in a loud voice but teacher let her get away with it & because they were speaking their language, it looked to tbe others jealous lady was helping by giving me equipment! So she got lots of warm attention from other classmates after that & i got ignored and glared at for being loud & looking bothered.
So sorry.
I had a femaie co worker say something way out of line to me in front of others.. my response ? it’s amazing how you just let any thought that passes through your mind flow out of your mouth.
She was completely taken aback and apologized.
For anyone not in the know watch Mean Girls the original movie.
Which glorified and normalized the shit out of this type of toxic behaviors
@@ogbigcheese no bullying wasnt glorified. Did u not watch the entire movie?
Sometimes it is direct. Sometimes it's physical violence, unprovoked.
Reputation destruction is a form of othering that leads to more extreme exclusion as well. Been there, done that.
An example this is when I entered seventh grade I went to a small school. It was a Lutheran school and I was the only new student in four years. I went there for two years and they most popular girl in my class decided to start spreading rumors about me. In eighth grade, it was the same group of students and they decided to split up in two groups inform clubs guess who was not invited. Me I was the only girl in my class who was not invited into two different groups. Did the pious teachers do anything about this? Of course they did not. When my mother talked to the teacher and to the principal who just happened to be the father of one of the girls in my class. Finally, something was said. But it wasn’t anything that included me and either one of the groups.
Then my mother spoke to them again about their hypocrisy .
Then we got a lecture on hypocrisy, but of course still nothing was done .
One of the teachers asked me how I felt, and if I wanted to be included and one of the groups ?
No, I told them I don’t wanna be included because they were pressured to include me. I don’t want to be recipient of pity.
They didn’t like me and they made it obvious. I didn’t like them either.
I was the only girl in a group of about 50 students who had no friends and it was obvious that I was singled out. 😭
You just described me too. And I was going through some horrendous family trauma while that was happening to me, like I did not need that as a 12 year old at the center of a major court case.
I saw one of them recently, having moved back to my hometown and she tried to be friendly. She in particular had made a lot of racist comments about me. Now, my ethnicity makes me look about a decade younger than I am.
I pretended I didn't recognize her or know the name, "sorry... it's been a really long time, I just can't remember people after SO MUCH time has passed. Maybe you looked... different BACK THEN? Have a great day anyway uh.....Chris...tine?"
Holy crap. I didn't recognize this as covert hostility or bullying. This is hitting right in the gut
The greatest part is that they never grow out of it. They go to HR or management positions (thanks nepotism!) and then the company has high turnover for some reason. They never get punished or corrected.
Learn to let go. It's not what other people do that matters, its what you do that matters. People are people. If you don't expect much, you're less likely to be disappointed. 😊
Back in the 80s a 6 th grade girl told me “you are a really nice girl but I can’t be seen with you at school I need to be seen with the popular girls “ at least she told me …girls can be brutal -thank you for brining this to light -now with social media it’s so tough
It’s the most disgusting thing and these people carry it to work places. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I started working for a major brand what middle school behavior was going on there.
Yup. Looks like it has migrated to our government as well.
I pretended likeI didn’t care at work but now I regret being “strong”. I realized that by not sticking up for myself, I was enabling the behavior. Other people were also being picked on.
In my day they learned it from teachers, the teachers pets were soo obvious & then the kids that were poor, couldn’t help but notice those poor kids were more often than not treated with total indifference…then there were the kids with wrong coloured hair or too many freckles, there were no overweight kids so at least that didn’t play into it…. don’t know bout social media but had to start from somewhere…
As a woman, I will have to say yes…this is the type of bullying in school, in work places in any group how women who bully other women are. It’s not always easy to work with and around people like this. I’m always conscious of other people’s emotions and feelings and try to be considerate. I just think that since women endure a lot biologically, it may be a challenge for some of us to regulate the different emotions. When there are added traumas, it could be worse. I’ve always gotten along more with males when engaging in full conversations. I’ve never been able to have full whole hearted conversations with women without non judgement, acceptance and understanding as much as with males. Maybe only with two woman friends/family that I’ve known for 30 & 40+ years. This topic needs to be in the forefront and discussed more. I appreciate Dr. K for speaking on it. There is so much bullying in schools and it’s in the work places too.
I work in Healthcare and one of my ex boss would stop other nurses to answer the patient's call bell because she was targeting that particular primary nurse at that time. She would move on to target someone else every few months.
I would love to hear from a woman reformed of this behavior why she acted in this way.
So so true.. when we recognise and confront them, they will make a fool out of us!
A girl had problem me and what she started doing is she would purposefully come to my bestie when m with her and only compliment her .... like 50 times a day.... likes if we both are wearing sarees she will come up to us and say oh my god u look soo good in this saree (to my bestie) amd just pass me casual smiles ... and I was not able to communicate this to my bestie cuz I thought she might think I am getting jealous of the attention she is getting
It was a tricky situation I didn't know what to do so I just tolerated her till the end of semester
My own sister will do that to me. It's absolutely deliberate, and she knows it & I know it, but no one else can see it so I say nothing. There's a game where you say "bingo", whenever someone is being passive aggressive like this toward you, lol. Try it, it will confuse them and you can laugh to yourself. 😂 you might think to yourself, 3 bingos and I'll go home, or 3 bingos and I'll reward myself with some chocolate, a jog, a drive tomorrow. It helps to not personalise it so much. It may even stop if she becomes embarrassed, as she would notice when you do it and others wouldn't. Just say you have a new style of Tourettes Syndrome,lol.😅 I tend to try and see some humouring things and that helps me cope.
When you're in elementary or high school, many don't have the experience that acquires wisdom and comes with emotional maturity to know how little other people's opinion matter. Once you 'get it', quality friendships bloom.
Experienced this at a very young age, minus the exclusion. Hostile Rumors, an indirect communication attack, non disruptive behavior were involved. Only realized after listening to this.
You know it’s really sad the number of us who are neurodivergent who’ve experienced this. It totally sucks and I’m sorry for us all that people just don’t do well with us. We deserve better. You are all awesome people. Let your light shine bright 💕💕💕
Perfect explanation!! I’ve tried so hard to explain this to guys😭
This is why. I'm so confused about this. I was bullied by girls for years in elementary school. As a woman, I am very direct, and usually only assume someone is upset with me if they directly tell me so, otherwise they're upset about something else. I always communicate directly, never had a problem getting a boyfriend. But have had a lot of trouble making female friends. No one explained the rules to me, so they must not be that important. 🤷🏽♀️