Really fun idea, but it would've bugged me if they established the Monk knew the First Doctor on Galifrey when there's a line in the original Meddling Monk story where it's explicitly stated this isn't the case.
It states in the episodes of the Meddling Monk that the Doctor did not know The Monk on Gallifrey but that the Monk had left Gallifrey 50 years after the Doctor. It was the Doctor (William Hartnell) who figured this out by looking at the Monk's Tardis.
In just a few days it'll be the 60th anniversary of the Monk's last appearance on TV in Dalek's Master Plan episode 10. That means any return will lap the Toymaker's record by a few years.
@@themaker2149that's not the monk it's Choji. He may be a Monk but he's not thee Monk. Choji was a Watcher for the Doctor's teacher who was living on Earth. When the teacher regenerated he become Choji.
@@themaker2149 you're thinking of the end of 'planet of the spiders', it wasnt THE monk but another, another ex time lord, an old teacher of the doctor's .. a good guy
I think having The Monk pop up every now and again as a comedic antagonist like Gabriel from Supernatural is a good way to keep the show entertaining. Every season or two there is a Monk episode that involves fixing the timeline after The Monk has messed it up. It creates some interesting what-if scenarios for the writers to play with. But when things get really bad in one finale, The Doctor and The Monk team up to save the day.
@@SamCottongut | I’m not too familiar with Star Trek. I've always wanted to get into it but there’s a lot of stuff to catch up on. Is there any chance you could explain who Q is?
Q was basically a godlike being who loved to mess with star fleet (and especially Captain Picard) for kicks. Mainly a TNG character but appeared a few times elsewhere as well. It was a always a toss up if he was trying to teach some valuable lesson, using them for his own gain, or just plain bored and entertaining himself.
@@Koschei1193 however, with NuWho they will big her up and she will end up as nothing important or have fans scratching their heads going "Huhh I don't think so" lol
@@Mark-nh2hs I hope they don't do what they did with Ruby's mum. That scene where she finds her mum is perfect. The acting is off the scale. But the build up to it was ridiculous
We need to see The Monk back on the show, it's long overdue. Not only they are an iconic character from the 1st Doctor Era, but also one of the best things on Big Finish
Knowing NuWho they will make the Monk the Master - like they heavily implied the War Chief was - rolls eyes. I personally think where there is War, suffering and bloodshed the War Chief is in the shadows manipulating the situation.
The War Chief being the Master has been a long running fan theory, many of the writers shared this view. The War Chief and the Master being the same person makes perfect sense. The Monk being the Master doesn't.
Actually, in the original novelization of "Terror of the Autons", the Monk was stated to be a young version of the Master. Thankfully, this didn't stick. I totally agree, not every evil Time Lord needs to be the Master. Though, I wish they would introduce some more "good" or "neutral" Time Lords, (Romana return?)
@crimsong8068 to be fair, this is the only other Timelord implied to be the Master. The Monk (not counting a game in the 1980s), the Rani, Anzor, the Player etc haven't.
The War Chief is obviously not the Master: for a start they have very different personalities. And the Master has no desire to play soldiers, it's far too much work. It would make much more sense if the War Chief were Morbius.
the Time meddler was the first Hartnell (and b&W) story I ever saw. Butterworth smashes it at as the Monk, and even though the pace was slower it really felt like modern Who, all the key pieces were there. Matt Berry is an inspired choice and I'd prefer to have him appear as a post Butterworth Monk rather than a prequel.
Excellent video Josh. I remember watching the time meddler over 30 years ago when it was repeated on tv, I loved Peter Butterworth as the monk, a great comedian from the Carry On films etc, he really encapsulated the mischievous nature of the monk. I think another modern actor who could have a similar vibe would be Ricky Gervais as he’s so full of mischief himself. I’d love to see a story with the Monk, Master and Rani causing havoc for the Doctor, as the (Time)Lords of Mayhem! Great work as always ❤❤
The writer of this story clearly overlooked the fact the Monk and Doctor deduce they are from different time periods in their home planets history, by about 100 years apart and couldn't have known each other as youths on Gallifrey
This is probably the unmade episode that hurts me the most. Excellent casting. Matt and Peter together as Time-Lords would've been electric. (I also really like Robot of Sherwood, I refer to it as delicious garbage)
This suggestion may seem a bit too fan focused on the surface, but I feel like Robot of Sherwood would have benefitted if there was a twist that the Sheriff of Nottingham was a recast of the Tremas Master... It would have helped tie up some loose ends in the story, and the actor already felt like he was channeling Anthony Ainley... Would have been nice to have a small lower than usual stakes master story... And in retrospect, if done right, it could have acted as great foreshaddowing not just for Missy's identity, but for The Doctor Falls and Missy's situation in that two parter, as well as setup for people who aren't that deep into series lore. Because whilst it has been a constant presence in the audios that the Master's flaunting of the laws of time includes them breaking their own continuity with other timelords and showing up out of order, to the casual viewer, it came up out of the blue in that 2 parter as something that never happened before. Even probably seemed contrived seeing the great lengths they go to explain whenever The Doctor crosses their own timeline, and then the Master just does by accident... Might have been nice to have something to ease people into the concept.
It would have been a fun story. I'd honestly love a Sister Act style story where the Monk is now known as the Nun and changes the choir to be more full of funk and pop, perhaps even changing religion in the process, and the Doctor and Co have to fix it. Or even a story after he has appeared with many incarnations with something similar to the Eleven, where his meddling with time may have become actual historical events (like what if he was the reason the Titanic hit an ice berg and sank) and he's meddled with it so much the timeline becomes out of order, reviving his past incarnations in his mind and has to manage that throughout his current and possibly future incarnations. Maybe even leading to him Bigenerating, unleashing all his prior incarnations in one go. Or even have a past Doctor supposedly cameo but it turns out it is the Monk, using the Doctor to meddle with history and gain access to things he usually doesn't get access to. The Monk is an all time favourite villain of mine, and it is a shame he didn't appear in the 60th Anniversary. I wasn't a huge fan of how Russell wrote the Toymaker, it was nothing like the original story and the Nightmare Fair novel, but the personality he wrote for the Toymaker could definitely work for the Monk, especially since it would be a new incarnation. Although, personally, I think Omega would have worked better in the story, not entirely, still would need some changes but would have worked better nonetheless. And I do also love Peter Butterworth. Having watched the Carry On films, I'll always associate him and the Monk with the line "Oh!" As from what I recall, Butterworth often did that in the Carry On films, so even if the Monk didn't do it, I'll always associate the Monk and him with that line. But at the same time, I am a bit glad the story didn't come to light. It would have to be managed with extreme care (Unlike the Toymaker in the Giggle), and I think if it wasn't managed right, it could heavily spoil the character of the Monk. I prefer the idea of the Monk just wanting to mess with time for the hell of it, rather than having an entire story telling us why he wants to mess time.
I think the Monk could be an excellent foil to the Doctor; a timelord who's breaking all the rules just for fun, adventure and his own amusement. Sounds so similar to how the Doctor sells himself that it could make the subtler contrasts much more stark and highlight how much responsibility and compassion is involved in what the Doctor does.
I think it would be easy to bring back the Monk. Doctor Who is so wide and deep with possibilities that some writer could easily pitch an idea that works.
This would have been a great episode. I also like tapping in to a truly chaotic element that is not evil, but problematic for the timeline and life its self.
Another thing I didn't know! Thanks for bringing this to light! The monk was such a good character back in the 60s, it would be super interesting to see how they're done now!
Ah, so there WAS a "Nun" version of the Monk? Would love to see a deep dive on all the different versions of the character (hint, hint)! It's really too bad he never showed up after his first appearance, can you imagine the original actor squaring off with the 2nd Doctor?? The only thing I dislike is that there really IS no "religious" angle, he was only pretending to be a monk because that let him be off by himself at that particular time, so saddling him with the "Monk" title all the time feels wrong...Esp when the alternative, "The Meddler" is right there! And I'm assuming the Pyramid villains also being "monks" is an artifact of this earlier story...
The Big Finish audios actually lampshade the ill fitting Monk alias, as the Monk frequently gets annoyed every time someone introduces him as such. “Honestly, throw on a cassock a couple of times and you’re typecast.”
If ever RTD would ever consider bringing back the Meddling Monk, he should do it. It has been a long over due character to return in the Dr Who universe on TV. Or I would love to hear a Big Finish spin off for the Meddling Monk called The Time Meddler.
I think it would have been great. I always loved the 7th Doctor new adventure novel featuring the Monk. It was set during the 70's punk rock era. The monk steals all the ,"notes" that the Future Doctor leaves himself....so the Doctor no longer has his edge. It has been like forever since I read it.... I might read it again. I think it was called no future.
Oh, to have any Doctor Who dialog read out by Matt Berry, with those vocal lifts that we all love, would be a dream! "Rasputin, in his madness, attacked me, but fortunately I had a sonic screwdriver hidden in my moustache." (Also, Robot of Sherwood is a pretty decent episode)
The fact that Rasputin and the Rasputin song were later in The Power of the Doctor makes me wonder whether Chibnall got that idea by having a chat with Peter Harness.
I misheard you and thought the Monk called his TARDIS Roger! Now I can’t stop laughing at the idea of Matt Berry summoning his TARDIS by yelling Roger!
I would have loved this to have been realized (neat character, wish he had been more involved). Always liked seeing him and the Rani just go around doing their own things solely for fun of it.
Rasputin already has a Doctor Who connection as Tom Baker played him in the film Nicholas and Alexandra. This was a great idea for a story so I'm sorry it didn't pan out. Time Meddler is one of my favourites from the Hartnell era, largely because of his interplay with Peter Butterworth.
I really liked the sound of this story back when Harness talked about it, but I don't really like the ending with the Monk having to impersonate Rasputin for the rest of his life. That's why I like how Power leaves Rasputin's wherabouts unanswered. I can completely see the Master hypnotising everyone into believing it's him. But I really like, and I think I share that with most of the fandom, is the thought of Matt Berry as the Monk. I'd really love to see him in the show, perhaps opposite Ncuti's Doctor. I think it could be really interesting having an irresponsible Time Lord against his more fun-loving Doctor (even though I also really like the combination with a grumpier Doctor, as you said). I think it could bring something different out of 15. I also feel that the Master and the Monk are different enough in their ethos to justify bringing him in, because I see the Monk more as reckless and carefree than truly evil or hellbent on universal domination.
Peter Butterworth was one of those fun actors that we loved as kids, seeing him in Dr Who in a revamped role would be very nostalgic As I understood his role in the meddling monk he was trying to stop the vikings invading Britain as disliked their barbarism & violence ? But he did have great joy it seems in teasing & being a general nuisance to Hartnells Doctor I'm not sure quite how another Time Lord could reappear as I thought they had all been wiped out except The Doctor though ? I'm so looking forward to they day that they do come back if & when they do
It’s weird to say the first doctor knew the Monk in his youth since in the original Monk story the Doctor says he doesn’t know him and that the Monk seems to have come from some time in his own future.
The Monk is my favorite Doctor Who villain because he's more of am anti hero where you can understand his motivations compared to others like the Daleks and Cybermen who are more generically evil.
The Monk would be perfect to be brought back in the 15th Doctor's era. Especially when we see the episodes lean more into camp and over the top villains like Maestro. (And it's okay Josh. I love Robot of Sherwood too.)
I wonder if the people wanting this episode made remembered: Tom Baker had actually played Rasputin in the movie "Nicholas and Alexandria?" And somewhere on the internet there is/was a fanfic where the Monk and the Doctor bump into one of the Blackadders!
Ah, I remember the Lockdown tweetalongs. Good times (all things considered 😅). Loved the idea for this episode, I'd be curious to see how the final product would have turned out. I think an episode where the timeline keeps getting more screwed up due to hijinks and shenanigans, as oppose to a deliberately malicious plot, is something the new series would excel at. It would've been great to see Capaldi's Doctor deal with it, but Gatwa's would be a close second. Maybe one day!
This would have been a much better idea than the variation we ended up with, I think. Given Peter Butterworth's future beyond the Monk, it would have been nice if an updated incarnation was discovered mucking about during the French Revolution, or in the time of Dick Turpin - you get the picture. Or perhaps trapped in a POW camp....
The only issue I can see with that idea is how do you fill an entire episode of them trying to restore Rasputin's mind without it being boring? What exactly do they do? What exactly do they do? Do they have to deal with others interfering in some way? Do they have to hide his condition from everyone else in some way?
I loved Robots of Sherwood too! Peter Butterworth was incredible. I am now curious about some of the Big Finish etc stories of The Monk.... did he run and hide during the Time War. I wouldn't mind him returning.
I think that the episode would have worked! Even with the seriousness of Doctor Who in the recent era. Having the Meddling Monk have to face the music and play as Rasputin at the end, having to face his consequences would have added the right amount of gravitas to the situation. They could have even played it up a little - having the Doctor and the Monk discuss how Rasputin died by firing squad...and in the end the Meddling Monk botches up his own death and has a sort of ridiculous death - the death we all know from history. As far as having the Monk as a character in today's Doctor Who, agreed 100 percent. Agreed 1000 percent! I always wondered why they never brought back the Meddling Monk! With the way that Russel T. Davies is going...here's hoping! He's shown that he's more than willing to dip into the rich history of Doctor Who.
It would've been much more fun if the show went into looking at the other Time Lords renegades like the Monk and the Rani after Gallifrey returned, I enjoyed all the gods and elder gods stuff that Big Finish did with 7 but don't really care for it with RTD2 so far. If RTD2 was decided to cover more Time Lord renegades it would've made more sense to tease a Susan return and you could have Omega as a finale villain instead of Sutekh.
I loved 'Robots Of Sherwood', but then again, I loved 'The Power Of The Doctor' as well, so what do I know? Matt Berry hasn't appeared on Doctor Who... yet. I'm willing to bet he will appear some time.
The fact that Time Lords pick their names makes it absolutely hilarious that the Monk chooses something so mundane like Roger. You have the Doctor! The Master! The Rani! And…Roger?
We need to bring back Runcible. He was last seen with a spear sticking out of his back in The Deadly Assassin but if he's a Time Lord wouldn't that mean that he could've regenerated after the fact?
Now that is has been 60, going on 50 for some and even 40 for some villains. It feels a bit unreal to have a villain returning after 50 or more years especially the significant ones like the Monk, the Krynoids, Axons, probably the Rani at this point. It even felt the same with the Celestial Toymaker and Sutekh. There's clearly a feeling of 'what-took-you-so-long' that we might as well just not have them at all. I'm also going to hate it when the Monk does come back and there's going to be a big orchestral noise.
I'm guessing the Monk never returned because his role was basically filled by the Master. It's a shame though, because he's not really evil. In a sense, he does what the Doctor does to "make things better", just in his own silly way. Fun fact: In the EU, the Monk has changed history so many times that he/she can't remember which incarnation they are.
There was a theory for a while that the Monk, the War Chief and the Master are all the same Time Lord. I don’t like it personally. You are probably right in your reasoning, but I think it’s a missed opportunity. The Monk would challenge the Doctor in a different way. Where the Master is a dark reflection, the Time Lord that sought to rule, rather than heal, the Monk is a demonstration of the irresponsibility of time travel, he is the Doctor without his code and rules, not necessarily evil, but self serving and lacking in empathy for the consequences of his actions. Where the Doctor might interfere to protect the little guy in that one isolated conflict, the Monk may go further back and genocide the culture to stop said conflict from ever happening, which accidentally makes the little guys a worse group of tyrants. While the Doctor asks whether, despite knowing someone will grow up to be the most evil tyrant he is right to go back and kill them as a child, the Monk does it in a heartbeat and woe betide the consequences.
Matt Berry as the Meddling Monk alone should've been enough to greenlight the episode. Moreover, the accompanying Doctor Who Unleashed episode could be called "What We Do in the TARDIS".
Ooo this is a fun what if. Matt Berry kills it in anything, the monk would've been BRILLIANT with that casting
Really fun idea, but it would've bugged me if they established the Monk knew the First Doctor on Galifrey when there's a line in the original Meddling Monk story where it's explicitly stated this isn't the case.
It states in the episodes of the Meddling Monk that the Doctor did not know The Monk on Gallifrey but that the Monk had left Gallifrey 50 years after the Doctor. It was the Doctor (William Hartnell) who figured this out by looking at the Monk's Tardis.
In just a few days it'll be the 60th anniversary of the Monk's last appearance on TV in Dalek's Master Plan episode 10. That means any return will lap the Toymaker's record by a few years.
I thought he appeared in a third Doctor story. When the third doctor regenerates isn't the monk floating above him?
@@themaker2149that's not the monk it's Choji. He may be a Monk but he's not thee Monk.
Choji was a Watcher for the Doctor's teacher who was living on Earth. When the teacher regenerated he become Choji.
@@themaker2149 you're thinking of the end of 'planet of the spiders', it wasnt THE monk but another, another ex time lord, an old teacher of the doctor's .. a good guy
I think having The Monk pop up every now and again as a comedic antagonist like Gabriel from Supernatural is a good way to keep the show entertaining. Every season or two there is a Monk episode that involves fixing the timeline after The Monk has messed it up. It creates some interesting what-if scenarios for the writers to play with. But when things get really bad in one finale, The Doctor and The Monk team up to save the day.
Yeah I could see being a bit like Q from Next Generation.
@@SamCottongut | I’m not too familiar with Star Trek. I've always wanted to get into it but there’s a lot of stuff to catch up on. Is there any chance you could explain who Q is?
Q was basically a godlike being who loved to mess with star fleet (and especially Captain Picard) for kicks. Mainly a TNG character but appeared a few times elsewhere as well. It was a always a toss up if he was trying to teach some valuable lesson, using them for his own gain, or just plain bored and entertaining himself.
@ | I like how there are a bunch of TV shows with the same kind of character. It kinda reminds me of Mr. Mxyzptlk from Superman media (and Supergirl).
I would love to see the Monk come back in the new series. And Berry would be excellent casting for him.
"MAYYYY GOHHDD, KOSCHEI MY CHUM IS THAT YOOOUUAUAAAUHUH"
The Monk is well over-due a TV return. Kind of hoping Mrs Flood ends up being an incarnation of them .
it would make sense, the monk is more 'mischievous' than 'evil'
They probably say the Monk is the Master - uggh
No, Mrs Flood I think is one of the Pantheon. She seems to be FAR beyond a Time Lord.
@@Koschei1193 however, with NuWho they will big her up and she will end up as nothing important or have fans scratching their heads going "Huhh I don't think so" lol
@@Mark-nh2hs I hope they don't do what they did with Ruby's mum. That scene where she finds her mum is perfect. The acting is off the scale. But the build up to it was ridiculous
I guess this explains that April's Fool video from a while back where they had Matt Berry as the Doctor and I gotta tell ya, I'd be down for that.
We need to see The Monk back on the show, it's long overdue. Not only they are an iconic character from the 1st Doctor Era, but also one of the best things on Big Finish
Matt Berry has recorded an album of television theme including Doctor Who. The cover has him sandwiched between Zippy and the Fourth Doctor.
I love the meddling monk. peter Butterworth was such a joy in the role
I think I would’ve loved this as a special 😂
Matt Berry is excellent. Year of the Rabbit is the most Doctor-y thing he's done on screen, and the word is that he's a fan...
You had me at "...terrifying and angry social media platform."
Thank you for another joyful vid.
Knowing NuWho they will make the Monk the Master - like they heavily implied the War Chief was - rolls eyes. I personally think where there is War, suffering and bloodshed the War Chief is in the shadows manipulating the situation.
The War Chief being the Master has been a long running fan theory, many of the writers shared this view. The War Chief and the Master being the same person makes perfect sense. The Monk being the Master doesn't.
Actually, in the original novelization of "Terror of the Autons", the Monk was stated to be a young version of the Master. Thankfully, this didn't stick.
I totally agree, not every evil Time Lord needs to be the Master. Though, I wish they would introduce some more "good" or "neutral" Time Lords, (Romana return?)
@crimsong8068 to be fair, this is the only other Timelord implied to be the Master. The Monk (not counting a game in the 1980s), the Rani, Anzor, the Player etc haven't.
@@crimsong8068 I've got the target hardback of that story.... I need to reread it as my memory of that section is hazy lol
The War Chief is obviously not the Master: for a start they have very different personalities. And the Master has no desire to play soldiers, it's far too much work. It would make much more sense if the War Chief were Morbius.
I think this sounds like a great idea for a silly Christmas episode. Like imagine if instead of "the return of doctor mysterio" we got this
Oh wow, I never knew about this. Great video, as ever, Josh!
Thanks for throwing that clom representation in there, means a lot
Happy to inform you that not everyone else on this planet hates Robots of Sherwood! I actually really adore it 🥺
It's my favourite 12th Doctor story. I love the historicals and comedies, so this hit the bullseye for me!
Favourite season 8 story. There's a touch of Blackadder to it in how ridiculous everyone else is except for the Doctor.
I like Robot of Sherwood too. I rate it the 7th best story of series 8.
Agreed, I’ve never understood the hate for it.
What the f Josh?! Matt Berry as the Meddling Monk would have been so much fun
I can never decide if I more want Matt Berry to be a fun recurring character (ideally the Monk) or if I want him to be the Doctor someday
Why not both? We've already had a Doctor who shoots his predecessor, after all.
You doctor who documentaries are always actually so good!
the Time meddler was the first Hartnell (and b&W) story I ever saw. Butterworth smashes it at as the Monk, and even though the pace was slower it really felt like modern Who, all the key pieces were there. Matt Berry is an inspired choice and I'd prefer to have him appear as a post Butterworth Monk rather than a prequel.
Excellent video Josh. I remember watching the time meddler over 30 years ago when it was repeated on tv, I loved Peter Butterworth as the monk, a great comedian from the Carry On films etc, he really encapsulated the mischievous nature of the monk. I think another modern actor who could have a similar vibe would be Ricky Gervais as he’s so full of mischief himself. I’d love to see a story with the Monk, Master and Rani causing havoc for the Doctor, as the (Time)Lords of Mayhem!
Great work as always ❤❤
Josh Snares sharing the news that we were robbed
The writer of this story clearly overlooked the fact the Monk and Doctor deduce they are from different time periods in their home planets history, by about 100 years apart and couldn't have known each other as youths on Gallifrey
This is probably the unmade episode that hurts me the most. Excellent casting. Matt and Peter together as Time-Lords would've been electric. (I also really like Robot of Sherwood, I refer to it as delicious garbage)
This suggestion may seem a bit too fan focused on the surface, but I feel like Robot of Sherwood would have benefitted if there was a twist that the Sheriff of Nottingham was a recast of the Tremas Master... It would have helped tie up some loose ends in the story, and the actor already felt like he was channeling Anthony Ainley... Would have been nice to have a small lower than usual stakes master story...
And in retrospect, if done right, it could have acted as great foreshaddowing not just for Missy's identity, but for The Doctor Falls and Missy's situation in that two parter, as well as setup for people who aren't that deep into series lore.
Because whilst it has been a constant presence in the audios that the Master's flaunting of the laws of time includes them breaking their own continuity with other timelords and showing up out of order, to the casual viewer, it came up out of the blue in that 2 parter as something that never happened before. Even probably seemed contrived seeing the great lengths they go to explain whenever The Doctor crosses their own timeline, and then the Master just does by accident... Might have been nice to have something to ease people into the concept.
It would have been a fun story. I'd honestly love a Sister Act style story where the Monk is now known as the Nun and changes the choir to be more full of funk and pop, perhaps even changing religion in the process, and the Doctor and Co have to fix it. Or even a story after he has appeared with many incarnations with something similar to the Eleven, where his meddling with time may have become actual historical events (like what if he was the reason the Titanic hit an ice berg and sank) and he's meddled with it so much the timeline becomes out of order, reviving his past incarnations in his mind and has to manage that throughout his current and possibly future incarnations. Maybe even leading to him Bigenerating, unleashing all his prior incarnations in one go. Or even have a past Doctor supposedly cameo but it turns out it is the Monk, using the Doctor to meddle with history and gain access to things he usually doesn't get access to. The Monk is an all time favourite villain of mine, and it is a shame he didn't appear in the 60th Anniversary. I wasn't a huge fan of how Russell wrote the Toymaker, it was nothing like the original story and the Nightmare Fair novel, but the personality he wrote for the Toymaker could definitely work for the Monk, especially since it would be a new incarnation. Although, personally, I think Omega would have worked better in the story, not entirely, still would need some changes but would have worked better nonetheless.
And I do also love Peter Butterworth. Having watched the Carry On films, I'll always associate him and the Monk with the line "Oh!" As from what I recall, Butterworth often did that in the Carry On films, so even if the Monk didn't do it, I'll always associate the Monk and him with that line.
But at the same time, I am a bit glad the story didn't come to light. It would have to be managed with extreme care (Unlike the Toymaker in the Giggle), and I think if it wasn't managed right, it could heavily spoil the character of the Monk. I prefer the idea of the Monk just wanting to mess with time for the hell of it, rather than having an entire story telling us why he wants to mess time.
josh 12th doctor era video my perfect niche
would have loved to see this story!! also dont worry i am one of the other 5 robot of sherwood enjoyers
If the Monk returns to television I really hope it's Rufus Hound.
Boooo
I think the Monk could be an excellent foil to the Doctor; a timelord who's breaking all the rules just for fun, adventure and his own amusement. Sounds so similar to how the Doctor sells himself that it could make the subtler contrasts much more stark and highlight how much responsibility and compassion is involved in what the Doctor does.
Matt Berry is now at the top of my list for 16... 🤯
I think it would be easy to bring back the Monk. Doctor Who is so wide and deep with possibilities that some writer could easily pitch an idea that works.
This would have been a great episode. I also like tapping in to a truly chaotic element that is not evil, but problematic for the timeline and life its self.
Another thing I didn't know! Thanks for bringing this to light! The monk was such a good character back in the 60s, it would be super interesting to see how they're done now!
Ah, so there WAS a "Nun" version of the Monk? Would love to see a deep dive on all the different versions of the character (hint, hint)! It's really too bad he never showed up after his first appearance, can you imagine the original actor squaring off with the 2nd Doctor??
The only thing I dislike is that there really IS no "religious" angle, he was only pretending to be a monk because that let him be off by himself at that particular time, so saddling him with the "Monk" title all the time feels wrong...Esp when the alternative, "The Meddler" is right there! And I'm assuming the Pyramid villains also being "monks" is an artifact of this earlier story...
The Big Finish audios actually lampshade the ill fitting Monk alias, as the Monk frequently gets annoyed every time someone introduces him as such. “Honestly, throw on a cassock a couple of times and you’re typecast.”
I pray every night before bed that the Meddling Monk can return to Doctor Who and team up with the Karate Nun. 💥💥💥
1:05 to be fair, it’s a whole new level of terrifying since it became X. And even in the year or two since, it is noticeably worse.
If ever RTD would ever consider bringing back the Meddling Monk, he should do it. It has been a long over due character to return in the Dr Who universe on TV. Or I would love to hear a Big Finish spin off for the Meddling Monk called The Time Meddler.
That's a big shame that story didn't make it, as i really enjoyed The Monk's character in his first adventure. Great video, thanks Josh.
Oh, and thank you for the video and Happy New year!
I think it would have been great. I always loved the 7th Doctor new adventure novel featuring the Monk. It was set during the 70's punk rock era. The monk steals all the ,"notes" that the Future Doctor leaves himself....so the Doctor no longer has his edge. It has been like forever since I read it.... I might read it again. I think it was called no future.
Oh, to have any Doctor Who dialog read out by Matt Berry, with those vocal lifts that we all love, would be a dream!
"Rasputin, in his madness, attacked me, but fortunately I had a sonic screwdriver hidden in my moustache."
(Also, Robot of Sherwood is a pretty decent episode)
this is like the dr who equivalent of the never stop gambling meme
That would be interesting! I could see Big Finish doing this story if Big Finish gets Peter Capaldi.
The Meddling Monk character is fantastic , its one of the best episodes from
the Hartnel era .
Matt Berry needs to be in Doctor Who. If somehow he did enter the show as the Monk that would be a dream come true.
Matt Berry as the Monk? Can't believe we missed this
Matt Berry would have been bloody brilliant! He'd also would make a great Doctor Who!
This Monk tale sounds like it would have been so much fun. Silly, silly fun.
Also, I'm so glad someone other than me enjoys Robot of Sherwood
The fact that Rasputin and the Rasputin song were later in The Power of the Doctor makes me wonder whether Chibnall got that idea by having a chat with Peter Harness.
I would kill to see this! Yeah, the monk needs to come back! It's such a genuine character, so silly but can be deep in the same time.
I misheard you and thought the Monk called his TARDIS Roger! Now I can’t stop laughing at the idea of Matt Berry summoning his TARDIS by yelling Roger!
Matt Berry is awesome. Meddling Monk is too. This would have been awesome squared if we get this in the future.
I would have loved this to have been realized (neat character, wish he had been more involved). Always liked seeing him and the Rani just go around doing their own things solely for fun of it.
I saw fan trailer with Matt Berry as the Doctor. It's so good
i wish the meddling monk reappeared in a new episode
Rasputin already has a Doctor Who connection as Tom Baker played him in the film Nicholas and Alexandra. This was a great idea for a story so I'm sorry it didn't pan out. Time Meddler is one of my favourites from the Hartnell era, largely because of his interplay with Peter Butterworth.
With a certain Valeyard -- Michael Jayston -- as Nicholas. 🙂
@@QuarrellaDeVil Indeed!
I really liked the sound of this story back when Harness talked about it, but I don't really like the ending with the Monk having to impersonate Rasputin for the rest of his life. That's why I like how Power leaves Rasputin's wherabouts unanswered. I can completely see the Master hypnotising everyone into believing it's him. But I really like, and I think I share that with most of the fandom, is the thought of Matt Berry as the Monk. I'd really love to see him in the show, perhaps opposite Ncuti's Doctor. I think it could be really interesting having an irresponsible Time Lord against his more fun-loving Doctor (even though I also really like the combination with a grumpier Doctor, as you said). I think it could bring something different out of 15. I also feel that the Master and the Monk are different enough in their ethos to justify bringing him in, because I see the Monk more as reckless and carefree than truly evil or hellbent on universal domination.
I like to think of him as a time traveling conman. Kinda like the wizard of Oz
1000%
Dream casting!!! I still want this.
"Docteeurr, you devious bastaAAard"
Peter Butterworth was one of those fun actors that we loved as kids, seeing him in Dr Who in a revamped role would be very nostalgic
As I understood his role in the meddling monk he was trying to stop the vikings invading Britain as disliked their barbarism & violence ? But he did have great joy it seems in teasing & being a general nuisance to Hartnells Doctor
I'm not sure quite how another Time Lord could reappear as I thought they had all been wiped out except The Doctor though ?
I'm so looking forward to they day that they do come back if & when they do
It’s weird to say the first doctor knew the Monk in his youth since in the original Monk story the Doctor says he doesn’t know him and that the Monk seems to have come from some time in his own future.
The Monk is my favorite Doctor Who villain because he's more of am anti hero where you can understand his motivations compared to others like the Daleks and Cybermen who are more generically evil.
The Monk would be perfect to be brought back in the 15th Doctor's era. Especially when we see the episodes lean more into camp and over the top villains like Maestro.
(And it's okay Josh. I love Robot of Sherwood too.)
Truly a missed opportunity. Matt Berry would've been amazing as the Monk.
I wonder if the people wanting this episode made remembered: Tom Baker had actually played Rasputin in the movie "Nicholas and Alexandria?" And somewhere on the internet there is/was a fanfic where the Monk and the Doctor bump into one of the Blackadders!
I really wished we got to see this story. It sounds mad and Matt Berry would have been perfect casting as The Monk.
I would LOVE the Monk back, he’s got such good capability as a fun villain, Rufus Hound really solidified him as unforgettable in Big Finish
Ah, I remember the Lockdown tweetalongs. Good times (all things considered 😅).
Loved the idea for this episode, I'd be curious to see how the final product would have turned out. I think an episode where the timeline keeps getting more screwed up due to hijinks and shenanigans, as oppose to a deliberately malicious plot, is something the new series would excel at. It would've been great to see Capaldi's Doctor deal with it, but Gatwa's would be a close second. Maybe one day!
We were robbed! This story sounds fantastic and Matt Berry as the Meddling Monk would have been fantastic
I’ve been hoping for The Monk to come back as well. I had cast him as Patrick Stewart in my head but Matt would be amazing.
I was literally just talking to Confused Adipose about this storyline that was not to be. Spooky
This would have been a much better idea than the variation we ended up with, I think. Given Peter Butterworth's future beyond the Monk, it would have been nice if an updated incarnation was discovered mucking about during the French Revolution, or in the time of Dick Turpin - you get the picture. Or perhaps trapped in a POW camp....
Love Matt, and he and Peter could also have a guitar jam as Matt is a cracking musician🎸🤘🏻
The only issue I can see with that idea is how do you fill an entire episode of them trying to restore Rasputin's mind without it being boring?
What exactly do they do? What exactly do they do? Do they have to deal with others interfering in some way? Do they have to hide his condition from everyone else in some way?
I loved Robots of Sherwood too! Peter Butterworth was incredible. I am now curious about some of the Big Finish etc stories of The Monk.... did he run and hide during the Time War. I wouldn't mind him returning.
Matt didn’t make it into Dr Who, but Dr Who made it into his show. Check out Toast of London !
I'm sold on the story just on the pre-title sequence
I think that the episode would have worked! Even with the seriousness of Doctor Who in the recent era. Having the Meddling Monk have to face the music and play as Rasputin at the end, having to face his consequences would have added the right amount of gravitas to the situation. They could have even played it up a little - having the Doctor and the Monk discuss how Rasputin died by firing squad...and in the end the Meddling Monk botches up his own death and has a sort of ridiculous death - the death we all know from history. As far as having the Monk as a character in today's Doctor Who, agreed 100 percent. Agreed 1000 percent! I always wondered why they never brought back the Meddling Monk! With the way that Russel T. Davies is going...here's hoping! He's shown that he's more than willing to dip into the rich history of Doctor Who.
They missed the perfect opportunity with Rufus Hound in series 9 who's played the Monk in Big Finish.
It would've been much more fun if the show went into looking at the other Time Lords renegades like the Monk and the Rani after Gallifrey returned, I enjoyed all the gods and elder gods stuff that Big Finish did with 7 but don't really care for it with RTD2 so far. If RTD2 was decided to cover more Time Lord renegades it would've made more sense to tease a Susan return and you could have Omega as a finale villain instead of Sutekh.
I don't know if Matt Berry is interested in the role, but he'd do an outstanding job as The Doctor.
I would love to see a Meddling Monk origin story.
Damn Matt Berry as the Monk that's just too perfect commenting now for the algorithm will, watch later.
And I prefer Garden to Hound.
I loved 'Robots Of Sherwood', but then again, I loved 'The Power Of The Doctor' as well, so what do I know?
Matt Berry hasn't appeared on Doctor Who... yet. I'm willing to bet he will appear some time.
The fact that Time Lords pick their names makes it absolutely hilarious that the Monk chooses something so mundane like Roger. You have the Doctor! The Master! The Rani! And…Roger?
We need to bring back Runcible.
He was last seen with a spear sticking out of his back in The Deadly Assassin but if he's a Time Lord wouldn't that mean that he could've regenerated after the fact?
I hope he gets to play the master someday, he would be brilliant in these shoes. I hope the Monk also get's to come back too
Now that is has been 60, going on 50 for some and even 40 for some villains. It feels a bit unreal to have a villain returning after 50 or more years especially the significant ones like the Monk, the Krynoids, Axons, probably the Rani at this point. It even felt the same with the Celestial Toymaker and Sutekh. There's clearly a feeling of 'what-took-you-so-long' that we might as well just not have them at all. I'm also going to hate it when the Monk does come back and there's going to be a big orchestral noise.
I'm guessing the Monk never returned because his role was basically filled by the Master. It's a shame though, because he's not really evil. In a sense, he does what the Doctor does to "make things better", just in his own silly way.
Fun fact: In the EU, the Monk has changed history so many times that he/she can't remember which incarnation they are.
There was a theory for a while that the Monk, the War Chief and the Master are all the same Time Lord. I don’t like it personally.
You are probably right in your reasoning, but I think it’s a missed opportunity. The Monk would challenge the Doctor in a different way. Where the Master is a dark reflection, the Time Lord that sought to rule, rather than heal, the Monk is a demonstration of the irresponsibility of time travel, he is the Doctor without his code and rules, not necessarily evil, but self serving and lacking in empathy for the consequences of his actions. Where the Doctor might interfere to protect the little guy in that one isolated conflict, the Monk may go further back and genocide the culture to stop said conflict from ever happening, which accidentally makes the little guys a worse group of tyrants. While the Doctor asks whether, despite knowing someone will grow up to be the most evil tyrant he is right to go back and kill them as a child, the Monk does it in a heartbeat and woe betide the consequences.
This would have been way better than the pyramid at the end of the world
Rufus Hound though. Just Rufus Hound.
I love berry as the monk hes a perfect choice hut i feel like its a missed opportunity to not bring rufus hound to the screen
The funny thing is, the current "Meddling Monk" is played by Rufus Hound in the Big Finish audio story range!
🤔
Matt berry as The Monk would be phenomenal, but not too crazy about that episode pitch.
Matt Berry as the Meddling Monk alone should've been enough to greenlight the episode. Moreover, the accompanying Doctor Who Unleashed episode could be called "What We Do in the TARDIS".
Sounds like a better idea than _The Pyramid at the End of the World_ TBH
It’s funny to think that Matt Berry hasn’t been in Doctor Who yet. How about this pitch BBC, the vampires of New York, or what we do in the Shadows.