The SNEAKY KARL! Ha, good to see my name sake is going strong! As GH said, I didn't invent the move. But my use of it caused a S-Storm and caused Larry H. himself to weigh in. Good video. Long live the Sneaky Karl!
A lone defending submarine can not trigger a sea battle against lone transports during an amphibious assault based on my readings of the Pacific rule book. Is it different in the European rules? Only a scrambled fighter can trigger a sea battle in which a defending submarine could then participate. The attacking transports would have to participate in one round of combat before retreating. Thanks General for your video!
You don't need to declare war with ANZAC unless you're trying to prevent them from moving to the Philippines (and only the Philippines). The reason for this is because Japan would have to declare war at the beginning of their combat move anyways if they were going to invade india or even the money islands, making the sea zone hostile before they can load the troops.
I'm also Karl from the Bay Area lol 😂 He's in my play group. I'm currently in a global game with him. He's actually a really good player, probably the best player I have played against. Hope all is well General. Maybe see you in Vegas in March? I'm pretty sure I'm going 😜
I think it's around the 15 min mark when you had the Japanese transport leave the hostile SZ, go north PU ground units and then go south to Borneo. I don't think you can go back through that hostile SZ once you leave it.
Actually that did not stop getting all the money Islands. 2 transports go pick up the Siam troops and get Sumatra and Java. the other 2 transports go north and then return through the Philipine Sea and take Borneo and the Celebes Islands. He just basically prevented the 4 Inf and 4 Art from being used for this purpose and lost a ship doing it. I think that those troops are better being sent to block the Burma road anyway.
At around 32:00, what happens if Russia places down a submarine and a destroyer, germany attacks that sz with transports and planes and sinks the destroyer, can the transport still make the ambhibious assault?
If Anzac doesn't declare war, wouldn't this still prevent a Calcutta crush since Japan has to declare war in the political phase which then makes sz36 hostile and still prevent loading?
No. If you read page 13 you will see the title of the topic is Sea Units STARTING their turn in a hostile sea zone. In the case you describe Japan would be starting their turn in a friendly sea zone and are therefore not prevented from loading their transports. The sea zone becomes hostile AFTER Japan's turn begins. There are so many subtleties in the Global 40 rule book that it makes it fascinating to find quirks like this and learn ways to exploit them. That's the beauty in this playlist that I created about Knowing The Rules. It was fun searching for them.
@@primroselane1 Thanks! Yeah I was too hasty in commenting as I just saw it there. It's all there in the rule books. I agree its so interesting how you have to read and re-read it so many times before it actually sinks in! PS- we're still waiting for you to come to Victoria! We got a very talented Global 36 player who is organizing an Easter long weekend game :)
Just as an aside as clever as it is, the Sneaky Karl strikes me as a bit of a gambit. Is there a general way to combat the Calcutta Crush. When done correctly, it seems to almost insure that UK Pacific falls before the US can enter the war, and at that point the Axis is about 90% of the way to winning the game then and there. The *only* downside I see to it is that the bulk of the IJN is out of position (but that that much if you want to take out ANZAC next). The only hope I see is an Aggressive US player, but I'm not sure that's enough. He can blockade Japan but that's not enough
I don't believe the Russian destroyer would stop the transports from dropping doods off at Norway because amphibious assault is always considered to be done during combat, even if there was no combat after the doods land.
In the situation that I had set up there, it would not have been an amphibious assault because Germany already owned Norway. It would have been a non-combat move for the transports to drop units off in Norway. If you read the section on Sea Units Starting in a Hostile Sea Zone on page 13-14 you will find that you have to move the transports on combat move (and the other boats for that matter) or not at all. You can't make a non-combat move on the Combat Movement phase so there is no possible way those transports can move units to Norway.
Exactly. Movement on non-combat on a transport is called an amphibious reinforcement. Page 15 Pacific Rulebook Under the heading "Transports", second paragraph; If a transport loads land units on the Combat Move phase, it must offload those units to attack a HOSTILE territory as part of an amphibious assault during the Conduct Combat phase... Page 32; If the transport moves in the Non-combat Move phase, any number of units aboard can offload into single FRIENDLY territory. Page 13; "Sea Units starting in Hostile Sea Zones" I'm not going to type the whole section. Suffice it to say that all of the ships either have to conduct combat or leave the zone on Combat Move phase. Norway was a FRIENDLY territory in the example that I showed. There is no way that a transport starting in SZ 115 could move on Non-combat Move phase. It could not possibly drop units on an amphibious reinforcement. Nor could Germany conduct combat on itself in Norway on the Combat Move phase.
OK this was fun. So what is it you have against Karls anyway? are you implying that we’re sneaky as in smarter?! or sneaky as in nasty or naughty?! ;-) Hey ya’ll, because of this video, from now on when I’m doin Sired thing and whimping out of my beloved J1 attack, I’m keep’n them there troops & they cargo on the transports...from now on I’m tell’n ya. Col Tefster.
I don't believe you referenced enough of the rule book to get a full picture of this. Here are a few passages I found: Pg 13: "Once a state of war is entered into, all territories and sea zones controlled by or containing units belonging to the power or powers on which you declared war instantly become hostile to your units" This would mean it is only a hostile sea zone to the Brits. It is not saying it is considered hostile for Japan. Pg 12: "Enemy submarines and/or transports don’t block any of your units’ movement, nor do they prevent loading or offloading in that sea zone (with one exception; see “Special Combat Movement: Transports,” page 15). As the moving player, you have the option of attacking any enemy submarines and/or transports that share a sea zone with you." Pg 15: "A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in." Pg 33: "A transport can’t load or offload while in a hostile sea zone. Remember that hostile sea zones contain enemy units, but that for purposes of determining the status of a sea zone, submarines and transports are ignored." That sea zone is not considered hostile to Japan, and so they would have the ability to load their transports during their turn.
Once a state of war exists between ANZAC/UK vrs Japan, all belligerents are equally at war with each other. So, Japan would immediately have a hostile sea zone exactly as much as UK, since they both have ships in the same zone.
Can sbd help me? We were playing the pacific side of 1940 2nd ed. Since Japan does a j1 attacking pearl harbor they CAN'T be stopped anymore, the games feels so imbalanced! The USA gets 14 IPCs and can't fight the japanese fleet. Japan beats the shit outta china with their 1'000 planes and keep the UK out of the business by bombing them. For every destroyer the US builds japan can afford a battleship and the units in asia mainland are enough to beat china. When Japan is done with that they overrun the uk and it's game over for the allies. The anzac can't do shit, they gotta build infantrie to protect sidney. Even their fighter can't help holding Calcuta. When anzac try to build a Navy the Japanese fleet put em back to round 1 by destroying every vessel they've been building up in 6 rounds without heavy loses on their own navy. The allies can't defeat japans navy, and when china falls the japanese get more ipc then the rest of the allies combined, meaning the war is lost for them. How can you stop japan!? If they decide, they can even whip out the entire US Fleet in round 3 or 4.
The USa gets TONS of money when Japan is at war with him. (losing 2 from Philipines) they have 15 IPc and extra 40 IPC per turn (from national objectives. Honestly, a decent USA player will keep Japan at bay easily. Japan is the one that need to rush up to win the game unless it wants the USA in its door. Anzack should mostly annoy Japan (never go frontal unless America is backing them up or to finish a naval battle USA started). British should do the same and support china while trying to take the money ilands away from Japan. And china has to defend mostly, since infantry doubles its power on defense. You need to coordinate all the allies and Japan will have a hard time and can be defeated. I don´t see any imbalance if both sides have same experience.
well actually we don't use NOs because they take too much time and the most ppl I play with are beginner, so this will make the game more difficult, but we add 30 ipc to usa when they get attacked. But do they get this 30ipcs EVERY turn, cause O thought this happens only the first time they enter the war? how ever thx for the help
The SNEAKY KARL! Ha, good to see my name sake is going strong! As GH said, I didn't invent the move. But my use of it caused a S-Storm and caused Larry H. himself to weigh in. Good video. Long live the Sneaky Karl!
You are an immortal now.
"As long as nobody whips out their camera, yells 'world star' and starts chucking knuckles." 😅😅 that had me dead
I have a vivd imagination.
Very situational but a brilliant move. Love it
6:57 I think a blocker there wont help, since they could go to 41 and then to Calcutta anyway. Best place is 37, I think.
Yes that's correct. Thanks.
A lone defending submarine can not trigger a sea battle against lone transports during an amphibious assault based on my readings of the Pacific rule book. Is it different in the European rules?
Only a scrambled fighter can trigger a sea battle in which a defending submarine could then participate.
The attacking transports would have to participate in one round of combat before retreating.
Thanks General for your video!
You don't need to declare war with ANZAC unless you're trying to prevent them from moving to the Philippines (and only the Philippines). The reason for this is because Japan would have to declare war at the beginning of their combat move anyways if they were going to invade india or even the money islands, making the sea zone hostile before they can load the troops.
I'm also Karl from the Bay Area lol 😂
He's in my play group. I'm currently in a global game with him. He's actually a really good player, probably the best player I have played against. Hope all is well General. Maybe see you in Vegas in March? I'm pretty sure I'm going 😜
Say hi to him for me. Tell him I had to remake his video because I didn't get it quite right the first time.
GeneralHandGrenade
Will do! 👍
Well this is sneaky alright I’d probably flip out if someone did this against me not knowing this move
Well now you know Sam. Try explaining it to your opponent when you do it to them, they won't believe you until you show them in the rulebook.
GeneralHandGrenade very helpful strat for me cause I’m not a very good Allied player thanks
Remember Russia can scramble one air unit and the Russian sub can defend against attacking transports even if escorted.
Whoops.....Almost forgot insert Japanese battle cry here....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a transport can move back through a hostile SZ. That affects things.
I don't understand what you mean Ian. At what time in the video are you referring to?
I think it's around the 15 min mark when you had the Japanese transport leave the hostile SZ, go north PU ground units and then go south to Borneo. I don't think you can go back through that hostile SZ once you leave it.
Oh, OK. Yes you're right about that. You could go pick up a dude or 2 from Siam and drop on Borneo.
14:32
That was my first thought. You can go through Philippines so it doesn't matter.
I want to use this in a game so bad!
Gen trying to get it up (WiFi I mean) but Atlanta airport has it all jacked up. Will have to review later. Tef
So if the transports flee in the combat move, they can't then load/offload in the non-combat if they don't move a space? Why not?
Those are the rules when beginning your turn in a hostile sea zone. Page 13 of the rulebook
They can't load or unload in non-combat, because they moved during the combat move.
Actually that did not stop getting all the money Islands. 2 transports go pick up the Siam troops and get Sumatra and Java. the other 2 transports go north and then return through the Philipine Sea and take Borneo and the Celebes Islands. He just basically prevented the 4 Inf and 4 Art from being used for this purpose and lost a ship doing it. I think that those troops are better being sent to block the Burma road anyway.
At around 32:00, what happens if Russia places down a submarine and a destroyer, germany attacks that sz with transports and planes and sinks the destroyer, can the transport still make the ambhibious assault?
No because you don't have a war ship to attack the submarine. The sub still prevents the transports from dropping units off.
If Anzac doesn't declare war, wouldn't this still prevent a Calcutta crush since Japan has to declare war in the political phase which then makes sz36 hostile and still prevent loading?
No. If you read page 13 you will see the title of the topic is Sea Units STARTING their turn in a hostile sea zone. In the case you describe Japan would be starting their turn in a friendly sea zone and are therefore not prevented from loading their transports. The sea zone becomes hostile AFTER Japan's turn begins. There are so many subtleties in the Global 40 rule book that it makes it fascinating to find quirks like this and learn ways to exploit them. That's the beauty in this playlist that I created about Knowing The Rules. It was fun searching for them.
@@primroselane1 Thanks! Yeah I was too hasty in commenting as I just saw it there. It's all there in the rule books. I agree its so interesting how you have to read and re-read it so many times before it actually sinks in! PS- we're still waiting for you to come to Victoria! We got a very talented Global 36 player who is organizing an Easter long weekend game :)
@@cyph3r.427 Thank you for the invite. I'm looking at hosting a game here next month with the new map and rules.
Just as an aside as clever as it is, the Sneaky Karl strikes me as a bit of a gambit. Is there a general way to combat the Calcutta Crush. When done correctly, it seems to almost insure that UK Pacific falls before the US can enter the war, and at that point the Axis is about 90% of the way to winning the game then and there. The *only* downside I see to it is that the bulk of the IJN is out of position (but that that much if you want to take out ANZAC next). The only hope I see is an Aggressive US player, but I'm not sure that's enough. He can blockade Japan but that's not enough
I meant to say that it seems to be a bit of a gimmick.
Interesting.....very sneaky indeed!
No doubt. Good to know little quirks like this in the rules.
Grande Prairie Alberta says Hi!
Hi Dusty!
Hello Grande Prairie!!
It's been a number of years since I was there.
I don't believe the Russian destroyer would stop the transports from dropping doods off at Norway because amphibious assault is always considered to be done during combat, even if there was no combat after the doods land.
see page 14 in amphibious assaults
Europe edition
In the situation that I had set up there, it would not have been an amphibious assault because Germany already owned Norway. It would have been a non-combat move for the transports to drop units off in Norway. If you read the section on Sea Units Starting in a Hostile Sea Zone on page 13-14 you will find that you have to move the transports on combat move (and the other boats for that matter) or not at all. You can't make a non-combat move on the Combat Movement phase so there is no possible way those transports can move units to Norway.
Read that page you got it wrong all amphibious assaults are combat. Non are done in non combat round
Exactly. Movement on non-combat on a transport is called an amphibious reinforcement.
Page 15 Pacific Rulebook Under the heading "Transports", second paragraph;
If a transport loads land units on the Combat Move phase, it must offload those units to attack a HOSTILE territory as part of an amphibious assault during the Conduct Combat phase...
Page 32;
If the transport moves in the Non-combat Move phase, any number of units aboard can offload into single FRIENDLY territory.
Page 13;
"Sea Units starting in Hostile Sea Zones" I'm not going to type the whole section. Suffice it to say that all of the ships either have to conduct combat or leave the zone on Combat Move phase.
Norway was a FRIENDLY territory in the example that I showed. There is no way that a transport starting in SZ 115 could move on Non-combat Move phase. It could not possibly drop units on an amphibious reinforcement. Nor could Germany conduct combat on itself in Norway on the Combat Move phase.
OK this was fun. So what is it you have against Karls anyway? are you implying that we’re sneaky as in smarter?! or sneaky as in nasty or naughty?! ;-) Hey ya’ll, because of this video, from now on when I’m doin Sired thing and whimping out of my beloved J1 attack, I’m keep’n them there troops & they cargo on the transports...from now on I’m tell’n ya. Col Tefster.
I have nothing against Karls. Much respect to someone who can come up with a move this ingenious.
A naval unit in SZ38 won't block the Japanese. You need a blocker in SZ 37. Look at the map carefully.
Yes I know. I realized that after I made the video.
OK
I don't believe you referenced enough of the rule book to get a full picture of this. Here are a few passages I found:
Pg 13: "Once a state of
war is entered into, all territories and sea zones controlled by or containing units belonging to the power or powers on which you declared war instantly become hostile to your units"
This would mean it is only a hostile sea zone to the Brits. It is not saying it is considered hostile for Japan.
Pg 12: "Enemy submarines and/or transports don’t block any of your units’ movement, nor do they prevent loading or offloading in that sea
zone (with one exception; see “Special Combat Movement: Transports,” page 15). As the moving player, you have the option of attacking any enemy submarines and/or transports that share a sea zone with you."
Pg 15: "A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in."
Pg 33: "A transport can’t load or offload
while in a hostile sea zone. Remember that hostile sea zones contain enemy units, but that for purposes of determining the
status of a sea zone, submarines and transports are ignored."
That sea zone is not considered hostile to Japan, and so they would have the ability to load their transports during their turn.
Once a state of war exists between ANZAC/UK vrs Japan, all belligerents are equally at war with each other. So, Japan would immediately have a hostile sea zone exactly as much as UK, since they both have ships in the same zone.
Can sbd help me? We were playing the pacific side of 1940 2nd ed. Since Japan does a j1 attacking pearl harbor they CAN'T be stopped anymore, the games feels so imbalanced! The USA gets 14 IPCs and can't fight the japanese fleet. Japan beats the shit outta china with their 1'000 planes and keep the UK out of the business by bombing them. For every destroyer the US builds japan can afford a battleship and the units in asia mainland are enough to beat china. When Japan is done with that they overrun the uk and it's game over for the allies. The anzac can't do shit, they gotta build infantrie to protect sidney. Even their fighter can't help holding Calcuta. When anzac try to build a Navy the Japanese fleet put em back to round 1 by destroying every vessel they've been building up in 6 rounds without heavy loses on their own navy. The allies can't defeat japans navy, and when china falls the japanese get more ipc then the rest of the allies combined, meaning the war is lost for them. How can you stop japan!? If they decide, they can even whip out the entire US Fleet in round 3 or 4.
The USa gets TONS of money when Japan is at war with him. (losing 2 from Philipines) they have 15 IPc and extra 40 IPC per turn (from national objectives. Honestly, a decent USA player will keep Japan at bay easily. Japan is the one that need to rush up to win the game unless it wants the USA in its door. Anzack should mostly annoy Japan (never go frontal unless America is backing them up or to finish a naval battle USA started). British should do the same and support china while trying to take the money ilands away from Japan. And china has to defend mostly, since infantry doubles its power on defense. You need to coordinate all the allies and Japan will have a hard time and can be defeated. I don´t see any imbalance if both sides have same experience.
That's what I would say, too. Do you know about National Objectives, McCiabatta?
well actually we don't use NOs because they take too much time and the most ppl I play with are beginner, so this will make the game more difficult, but we add 30 ipc to usa when they get attacked. But do they get this 30ipcs EVERY turn, cause O thought this happens only the first time they enter the war? how ever thx for the help
do you think the pacific side is playable without using NOs?
The game is made to be played with the N.O.'s. It isn't going to balanced without them.