In a 1930s vintage building I once worked in I watched a oil converted cast iron coal boiler the size of half a VW bus get dismantled and replaced with one of these. The installers had to break the cast iron sections with sledge hammers. The Lochinvar was like a miracle; compact quiet and efficient. The massive belch of flame from the old oil burner was impressive though. The old one had three 275Gal tanks that needed filling 3 times a year.
Had a Buderus boiler with similar problem. Same style heat exchanger clogged with the white scale. Lot easier to clean though. Always impressed with you leaving details like air and gas info written in the boiler!
I have quite a bit of experience on Lochinvar boilers. From those copper fins, that you were working on, to a crest, noble, ftxl, armor,....etc etc to big ole Kewanee's, Cleaver Brooks, Superior, Hurst.....i love hydronics.
I was always taught to replace the burners if they were more than 5 years old. Also the control is looking for at least 3 amps of igniter current before it will open the gas valves. Older boilers would just sit with igniter glowing until a lockout occurred. Newer boilers will tell you Igniter(A or B) current low. Always an aggravation on those Lochinvars with the air pressure and the switches. When the exchanger starts to plug you would get a low air or blocked flue trip. Just serviced one of these a few months back and yes that dust will kill your lungs!
That dust destroyed my sweeper filter....I couldn't get it clean even after I washed it with water. I'm sure it has silica in it which causes cancer I'm sure.
Having found similar buildup on the tubes, I was told to literally hose off the tubes. What a mess. Anyway, found that if ignitor doesn't draw the required amps, the boiler will just sit there with the ignitor glowing, so tripping may be from near end of life of the ignitor. Also, I found several burners had cracked from 9 to 3 oclock near the front on first stage, and any flame disturbance that caused was not visible through the sight glass.
90% of the boilers I work on are lochinvars. When set correctly they run pretty good, it’ll just be maintenance upkeep and small things like HSI going bad or float switch leaking that need to be replaced. There harnesses are cheap I have to replace the igniter harness about every 3 years or so due to molex plug fouling up. Surprised to see that boiler not running on the big PCB boards since it’s not super old. How you did the HX cleaning is exactly how I do mine and is what lochinvar recommends in which they want that done yearly. Ours run pretty much non stop and are on roofs in the environment. Solid troubleshooting 🤘🏻like always!
That green sulfur dust is an absolute lung killer. Always protect your lungs or you willl not enjoy the afterburn. Worked on these once at a commercial car wash heating the wash water. Was glad to find they were replaced when I returned years later. I did not appreciate these closed combustion boxes
This boiler provides hot water to an air handler, if there's Co in the building I would have got it a reading when I came in from outside. I verified it was drafting and worked on the equipment that they asked for.
question rick. you have 2 co readings.. CO is a diluted reading. you also have a COAF which is co air free undiluted reading. how are you deciding which should be under 200ppm? did the manufacturer specify? your coaf reading was over 200.
Looks like deposits caused by contaminated combustion air. What’s in those bags that your tools were setting on? Did you check the draft on that flue connector? Looks like the barometric was all the way closed. I guess you re sealed the burner door. That’s critical. Natural usually burns between 3.5 and 4, but what you really have to do to make sure, is clock the meter, to see if you’re over-fired. I would also check the office size. You should be able to figure this out without having to replace the boiler. Try clocking the meter to see what your BTU input is. I’ll bet it’s higher than you think. Did you fully inspect your flame sensor circuit for cleanliness and, a good ground. What is the factory spec. For the DC micro amp flame signal? How’s the combustion air openings in the boiler room?
I forget what was in the bags but I investigated any possible chemicals that were in the room causing bi-products in the fuel burning process. Nothing changed in the room environment as far as the salt for the water softener. As far as clocking a meter, this system was on propane gas so there's no meter to clock, I checked the draft and it was right on the money I forget what it was required at the time but I thought I noted it in the video, I set the gas pressure at factory default and then lowered it a little bit as I mentioned in the video, I checked the burners, I did find the little problem with one and I repaired it with silver braze, I also washed them out, after 2 or 3 trips I was able to make this thing run like it should, and it has been working fine now for the last 3 or 4 months, however long this video has been up. It boils down to they weren't having it service like they should and now they know they need to have it done every year.
@@HVACRSurvival It ran like that for months… I arrived found the destroyed burners, had to cut one in half with a saw to get it out. Ended up condemning it once I found the cracked box.
Nice videos, I'm glad that the testo300 got over to you, here in Europe we use it for a couple of years Did the manufacturer specify a co2%? In Belgium burners are set that way
Weil-McLain had a factory in my No. IN home town. They sponsored an evening science course for high schoolers -- pretty responsible manufacturer. Not sure if they're still there.
True! I have started to open these boilers like this during the pm service. I didn't know how it came apart prior to this call. Now a few thousand people will.
Crystalline silica is formed from the combustion process and is a cancer-causing substance. A lot of manufacturers for residential modulating condensing boilers suggest full ppe when servicing them. I'm glad to see you did put a mask on for your video. Really like to see this type of content though! Great video
@@element1318 water is your friend with any powdery silica, as it is with cement/concrete mixes and asbestos. all nasty things to your lungs. silicosis is very bad, as well as asbestosis.
Those boilers are very touchy first time I worked on one I can feel that stuff in my throat for weeks my nose burned and that was with a mask went back to the boiler four times to get that sucker to stay running
@@HVACRSurvival I work on a lot of Lochinvar, Raypak, and Laars copper tube fin boilers, and all types of gas boilers. That style depending how dirty the tubes are I’ll brush them down as you did, then, vacuum, grab the large trash bag cut it up, and lay it down so you don’t wet the refractory (fire brick) I use a pump spray mixed with CLR and water. Wash, scrub, and clean the tubes and then rinse them down with water. Reassemble back together. Lochinvar specs the ones I worked on are Air 1.2” W.C. Gas valves set at 3.0” W.C and your deferential should be 1.8” W.C. That should get you on the money. My goal is always under 50PPM if possible. Close to 0 is even better! Depending on the damn manual says less than 100 is okay but I still don’t like it that high. The condition of the tubes also impact the CO readings. I have seen some that look okay but are not. The obvious is when they are cracked/ burnt. I use a Bacharach PCA 400. Also don't forget to check incoming gas pressure to the boiler, static/ dynamic issues. 👍
Man I had about 20 of those pieces of shit at a jail. They soot up so bad and that soot gets on ya and takes 3 showers to get most of it off ya. Very temperamental junk. Mine were all hot surface ignighters and and burned them out all the time.
You do a great job when you work on a piece of junk! But unfortunately this day and age you don't get anything but a piece of junk. I think you would do a happy dance if you ever got something reasonable to work on. Keep up the great work. And take care of yourself
They are easier than some to clean. If they were getting serviced more often I don't think it would have been near as bad. We just started working there.
I’ve always ran into more Raypack than Lochnivar for copper finned tube boilers. Raypacks FUCKING SUCK to clean. That Lochnivar is slick! I was always taught that high CO is almost always a result of flame impingement. I wonder if replacing the burners would have made any difference in your CO?
@@HVACRSurvival you literally have to use a garden hose and and soak everything, including yourself, when the heat exchangers get bad. If that doesn’t work you’re breaking out a brazing rod and punching out every fin gap. Not a fan.
In a 1930s vintage building I once worked in I watched a oil converted cast iron coal boiler the size of half a VW bus get dismantled and replaced with one of these. The installers had to break the cast iron sections with sledge hammers. The Lochinvar was like a miracle; compact quiet and efficient. The massive belch of flame from the old oil burner was impressive though. The old one had three 275Gal tanks that needed filling 3 times a year.
Those things are always so touchy
Had a Buderus boiler with similar problem. Same style heat exchanger clogged with the white scale. Lot easier to clean though. Always impressed with you leaving details like air and gas info written in the boiler!
Thanks! I try to help the next person.
I have quite a bit of experience on Lochinvar boilers. From those copper fins, that you were working on, to a crest, noble, ftxl, armor,....etc etc to big ole Kewanee's, Cleaver Brooks, Superior, Hurst.....i love hydronics.
Lochinvars are really dependable boilers when set and maintained correctly.
Completely agree 🤙🏻
I was always taught to replace the burners if they were more than 5 years old. Also the control is looking for at least 3 amps of igniter current before it will open the gas valves. Older boilers would just sit with igniter glowing until a lockout occurred. Newer boilers will tell you Igniter(A or B) current low. Always an aggravation on those Lochinvars with the air pressure and the switches. When the exchanger starts to plug you would get a low air or blocked flue trip. Just serviced one of these a few months back and yes that dust will kill your lungs!
That dust destroyed my sweeper filter....I couldn't get it clean even after I washed it with water. I'm sure it has silica in it which causes cancer I'm sure.
Check,clean &/or replace burners . Inspect orifice’s 13:23
Having found similar buildup on the tubes, I was told to literally hose off the tubes. What a mess. Anyway, found that if ignitor doesn't draw the required amps, the boiler will just sit there with the ignitor glowing, so tripping may be from near end of life of the ignitor. Also, I found several burners had cracked from 9 to 3 oclock near the front on first stage, and any flame disturbance that caused was not visible through the sight glass.
All good information🤜🤛👍👍
Hey Rick I had to clean 4 of the same Lochinvar heat exchangers in one day. That acidic dust really knocks you for a loop 😂
That stuffs bad News
90% of the boilers I work on are lochinvars. When set correctly they run pretty good, it’ll just be maintenance upkeep and small things like HSI going bad or float switch leaking that need to be replaced. There harnesses are cheap I have to replace the igniter harness about every 3 years or so due to molex plug fouling up. Surprised to see that boiler not running on the big PCB boards since it’s not super old. How you did the HX cleaning is exactly how I do mine and is what lochinvar recommends in which they want that done yearly. Ours run pretty much non stop and are on roofs in the environment. Solid troubleshooting 🤘🏻like always!
I appreciate the support, I did it the way the factory recommended.
FUCKIN SLAYERRRRR
the factory has good condition to test and they are brand new
That green sulfur dust is an absolute lung killer. Always protect your lungs or you willl not enjoy the afterburn.
Worked on these once at a commercial car wash heating the wash water. Was glad to find they were replaced when I returned years later. I did not appreciate these closed combustion boxes
I got a k95 mask right after I mentioned it.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing. I'm new to boiler. I'm learning more about boiler and chiller ^_^
Thanks man! I wasn't sure people would like it.
Good little job well done ... Thx for posting ...
Nice job Rick!
Great job , I was expecting the burners to be cracked and blown out , very common on these copper fin boilers
I checked them carefully hoping to find some reason for the high co, washing them out with water did make a difference.
@@HVACRSurvival I have washed out the heat exchanger with a spray of water , Of course being careful not to get the refractory insulation wet .
@@ChingusTheOneAndOnly insulation delete 101 🤣
Great job Rick, pretty close to engineering.
I know🤦🏻🤣
Did you check CO in the church space and at vents as well?
This boiler provides hot water to an air handler, if there's Co in the building I would have got it a reading when I came in from outside. I verified it was drafting and worked on the equipment that they asked for.
question rick. you have 2 co readings.. CO is a diluted reading. you also have a COAF which is co air free undiluted reading. how are you deciding which should be under 200ppm? did the manufacturer specify? your coaf reading was over 200.
Boy I hope they didn't count the last 2 trips as a call-back and that you didn't work for free 😤
I kept in communication with my contact person every time I was done and explained what I did and what could be next.
Looks like deposits caused by contaminated combustion air. What’s in those bags that your tools were setting on? Did you check the draft on that flue connector? Looks like the barometric was all the way closed. I guess you re sealed the burner door. That’s critical. Natural usually burns between 3.5 and 4, but what you really have to do to make sure, is clock the meter, to see if you’re over-fired. I would also check the office size. You should be able to figure this out without having to replace the boiler. Try clocking the meter to see what your BTU input is. I’ll bet it’s higher than you think. Did you fully inspect your flame sensor circuit for cleanliness and, a good ground. What is the factory spec. For the DC micro amp flame signal? How’s the combustion air openings in the boiler room?
I forget what was in the bags but I investigated any possible chemicals that were in the room causing bi-products in the fuel burning process. Nothing changed in the room environment as far as the salt for the water softener. As far as clocking a meter, this system was on propane gas so there's no meter to clock, I checked the draft and it was right on the money I forget what it was required at the time but I thought I noted it in the video, I set the gas pressure at factory default and then lowered it a little bit as I mentioned in the video, I checked the burners, I did find the little problem with one and I repaired it with silver braze, I also washed them out, after 2 or 3 trips I was able to make this thing run like it should, and it has been working fine now for the last 3 or 4 months, however long this video has been up. It boils down to they weren't having it service like they should and now they know they need to have it done every year.
@@HVACRSurvival Oh I didn’t realize it was on Propane. Lots more problems.
Those boxes need to be super tight, interesting enough I just condemned a lochinvar similar vintage. Customer installed a burner upside.
Wow, did it light ok or boom. ?
@@HVACRSurvival It ran like that for months… I arrived found the destroyed burners, had to cut one in half with a saw to get it out. Ended up condemning it once I found the cracked box.
how much hiccup sauce or mary-jane was involved. lol
@@throttlebottle5906 no idea 🤷🏽♂️ expensive mistake though.
You can check draft with the analyzer.
Are those boilers run on propane
They were propane, I think it does draft, we just got the thing and I was the first to use it.
Nice videos, I'm glad that the testo300 got over to you, here in Europe we use it for a couple of years
Did the manufacturer specify a co2%? In Belgium burners are set that way
They didn't have any specs, just the max CO reading.
Or even Sox or Nox levels
Looks like it was a tough one.
Weil-McLain had a factory in my No. IN home town. They sponsored an evening science course for high schoolers -- pretty responsible manufacturer. Not sure if they're still there.
That would be cool. I like their products
@@HVACRSurvival Sorry, relocated to China.😁
Great job, Rick! Looks like they better keep up with the maintenance or it will keep happening?
True! I have started to open these boilers like this during the pm service. I didn't know how it came apart prior to this call. Now a few thousand people will.
High CO, low CO2 = rich combustion. Im usually looking at combustion air and burners when dealing with a reduced oxygen reaction
Time to replace that junk 😮
Any thoughts on what that flaky, powdery stuff was?
Combustion byproducts is what I figured.
Nose candy!🤣🤣🤣
@@joehead1294 LMAO! snort it up, snort it up( sang to lick it up KISS)
Crystalline silica is formed from the combustion process and is a cancer-causing substance. A lot of manufacturers for residential modulating condensing boilers suggest full ppe when servicing them. I'm glad to see you did put a mask on for your video. Really like to see this type of content though! Great video
@@element1318 water is your friend with any powdery silica, as it is with cement/concrete mixes and asbestos. all nasty things to your lungs. silicosis is very bad, as well as asbestosis.
Those boilers are very touchy first time I worked on one I can feel that stuff in my throat for weeks my nose burned and that was with a mask went back to the boiler four times to get that sucker to stay running
I'm pretty confident in it now 🤣. Sometimes the only way you learn is just doing it
@@HVACRSurvival practice makes perfect
Your testo was set for propane not natural gas
@@eastcoast186 it was a LP system in the middle of nowhere.
@@HVACRSurvival okay thanks
looks like a tamed down pressure washer was needed. lol
I mentioned that in the original video but it would have made a hell of a mess. Kind of like when I used nitrogen but I didn't show that either 🤣
@@HVACRSurvival
I work on a lot of Lochinvar, Raypak, and Laars copper tube fin boilers, and all types of gas boilers. That style depending how dirty the tubes are I’ll brush them down as you did, then, vacuum, grab the large trash bag cut it up, and lay it down so you don’t wet the refractory (fire brick) I use a pump spray mixed with CLR and water. Wash, scrub, and clean the tubes and then rinse them down with water. Reassemble back together. Lochinvar specs the ones I worked on are Air 1.2” W.C. Gas valves set at 3.0” W.C and your deferential should be 1.8” W.C. That should get you on the money.
My goal is always under 50PPM if possible. Close to 0 is even better! Depending on the damn manual says less than 100 is okay but I still don’t like it that high. The condition of the tubes also impact the CO readings. I have seen some that look okay but are not. The obvious is when they are cracked/ burnt. I use a Bacharach PCA 400. Also don't forget to check incoming gas pressure to the boiler, static/ dynamic issues. 👍
@@Anonymous01416 thanks for the information! I agree the co levels they have me were higher than what I've heard in the past.
clean the burners!!!
Man I had about 20 of those pieces of shit at a jail. They soot up so bad and that soot gets on ya and takes 3 showers to get most of it off ya. Very temperamental junk. Mine were all hot surface ignighters and and burned them out all the time.
Just lovely coming home after a "bring your brown pants day" and watching someone suffer more to raise the spirit 😀
🤣👍👍 I'm glad I could help bring you up!
water softner is not good to have in same room lol
Correct, I told them that. it went on the paperwork and also went in one ear of the customer and out the other
You do a great job when you work on a piece of junk! But unfortunately this day and age you don't get anything but a piece of junk. I think you would do a happy dance if you ever got something reasonable to work on. Keep up the great work. And take care of yourself
Thanks for checking it out. I've been getting less than desirable calls lately. 🤷 It happens when other people pick your calls
clean your burners too wash with water
I did
👍
👍👍🤜🤛
they don't service this boiler needs to be done every year low temp does this every time
That's what I told them
call steve lavimoniere
Piece of junk there. We take care of several
They are easier than some to clean. If they were getting serviced more often I don't think it would have been near as bad. We just started working there.
127 Thumbs uP
I’ve always ran into more Raypack than Lochnivar for copper finned tube boilers. Raypacks FUCKING SUCK to clean. That Lochnivar is slick!
I was always taught that high CO is almost always a result of flame impingement. I wonder if replacing the burners would have made any difference in your CO?
I think the Raypacj I've seen are pool heaters, they were vacuum cleaners... They sucked
@@HVACRSurvival you literally have to use a garden hose and and soak everything, including yourself, when the heat exchangers get bad. If that doesn’t work you’re breaking out a brazing rod and punching out every fin gap. Not a fan.