Amplifier repair Part 2 - Output section & Bench testing!
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- NSVaudio
So in this final section we tackle the remainder of the power supply and the output section. There was quite a bit wrong with this amp but surprisingly the driver survived which made repair that little bit easier.
It's a pleasure to see a Brit show how things are done. Well structured, plain English, non-condescending, matter-of-fact delivery makes a mockery of other repair "tutorials". Inspiring. I've a Nelson Pass designed Soundstream A50 which is in need of attention. Despite my limited experience, you have given me confidence to attempt at least troubleshooting it. Thank you for a genuine production aimed squarely at providing relevant information in a digestible format. If we all were so sharing, the world would be a much better place! Much appreciation 😊
Excellent demonstration of intellectual balance, you did an amazing job explaining some of the science involved in amplifiers and showing it with good visual references. It is good also to see that some people still exist and even thrive on repairing electronics. It's an very expensive amplifier and is a quality unit so to repair it definitely makes sense, Its good to know that it could be repaired even better knowing there is someone who can repair it. At any cost my man I'm sure you are worth it, thanks for sharing. Love from across the pond my brother
Only 1 year of experience at the time of making this video absolutely blows my mind! Brilliant video mate!
It makes me so happy to see tech being restored by someone who knows what he is doing
I have seen many repair videos that try to explain but you are definitely the best. I have learned more on these two videos than in the
Last few years of other videos.
I can't believe how well educated and skilled you are, and this is coming from a person with a Master of Science degree and 26 years of work experience repairing audio and video electronics. A class D amo. is rare.
Wow thank you buddy. When I made this video I had only been repairing electronics for a year. Before then I didn't have a single idea about any electronic component or circuit. There's 2 things at play here, first is that I guess I pick things up quite quickly, but I'm also good at appearing more knowledgeable in a subject than I may actually be. So although all the information here may be somewhat accurate, I only learnt it surrounding car amps, and wouldn't be able to translate it very well to other areas of electronics for example. I guess that's the difference from learning by diving in the deep end, vs having a foundation of education in a subject.
These videos are very helpful, & I have just bought an HP 554602B 150MHz O-Scope like yours, & a variable power supply & hot air station and a bunch of other things & I'm really tiring to learn car audio amplifier repair.
Louis Rossmann for amplifiers daaamn
Nah, Louis Rossmann is way more emotional in his videos than him. Which makes sense in light of the fact that he's repairing Apple stuff :D
wahahahaha
Not even close.
Or he claims so and is swearing to god that he actually does apple repairs in real until become a web personality and earn money from talkings and promotions.
Best car amplifier repair video on UA-cam! Nice clear voice and attention to detail. Great job! 👍🏻
Thank you for the excellent level of detail! Your accent is particularly pleasing to listen to from the USA. Far less aggravating than our own domestic accents. Subscribed!
I thought it was Phil Collins..
I'm loving your vibes very much I was learning electronic in the 80s as a teenager back then in Jamaica there was a lot of things I didn't understand about amplifiers that u made clear to me now thank u
I'm a certified Rockford Fosgate Basshead and Tech Fundi , best video i have ever seen , well done Mate , all the way from South Africa.
I love learning from really smart people. I'm just a hobbyist who builds micro-controller circuits that don't even come close to the complexity of that amplifier. I've got to subscribe.
Great info. I am pretty good at electronics, but I'm not as advanced at engineering/repairing as you are. Viewing your video taught me a lot and has some great advice for EVERYBODY who does electronic repairs. I especially liked the tips about testing burnt circuit boards to make sure they haven't become conductive, also carefully checking for tiny solder bridges. Even if you can't see bridges, a lot of electrons can flow through them, instantly creating a bigger a disaster. Fantastic work and safety habits.
The ungrounded low current power supply trick was brilliant too. That was a new one for me and I'm sure it will come in handy one day soon. Thanks so much for everything.
@barevids You have some serious talent man.
after looking at some of your videos, i feel confident going into amplifier repairs... I'd recommend anyone who's new to this, to look at your work first.
I’m glad you started with an easy fixable straightforward repair 🤣
After more than an hour 35:42 “Ok, so now for the *interesting* part”.
Never knew what a chisel is for. Now I do. ;)
In cold weather you don’t need to put on the heater just power up the music. Lol.
I enjoyed the full 1,5 hour explanation to the fullest. Just incredible how you talk us all the way through this awesome repair. Tx!
yes sir as a technian i learn alot from your channel thank you for ur videos
I worked in a shop where I mostly did resoldering of old contact points on VHS recorders.
The worst repairs were on the Goldstar brand VCRs. The circuit boards were very thin and cheap.
I am enjoying the video mate. Thank you for a good job and the inspiration to get started fixing things again.
Cheers, mate.
I appreciate your enthusiasm! Given the accent, if you spoke any faster I would probably miss several words but as it is I understood you just fine. Thanks for a fine video.
These are the BEST 2 videos you've ever done! So much to be learned here, so descriptive, so in depth, just a phenomenal job man... GREAT VIDS!
Very good and very informative documentary on audio switching amplifies for car audio.
Thank you so much for this video dipping my toes into Amps and you have taught me a lot. I still need to learn much more before I try and do anything but much closer now thanks to you.
Brilliant video, i have recently started studying Electronical and Electrical engineering at university and found this video very good for getting a greater underpinned knowledge with electronics. Keep them coming!
Schools are ok but you need to learn from techs who do the actual repairs.
Well done on this repair. Really enjoyed watching you go through the process. Looking forward to watching some more videos from your channel 😀
Best Damn Instructional UA-camr of '17! Subbed in two vids! Gave me the correct way to diagnose this old MTX amp I popped years ago. I know it's an AB, but diagnostically, it will be the same steps. I have an AEES in EE and was working on my BEET, but the school was online and I had life changes where I just had no energy or time to continue.. Anyways, your spot on with your diagnostics and procedures far as I can see, your cautious and deliberate and vocal about your actions. Cheers from the US :D
Great job! I've been doing this now for about 10 months and I love it. This was a great 2 part video. This is by far my most favorite vid you've done. You have lots of great ones but this helped me a lot. I would love to learn more about how to fix an output board in the future. Thats where I'm having all my problems on my repairs, I just don't know enough about the ic chips.
Why are they giving such ridiculous numbers? There is no way in hell that this thing is putting out 4kW of power RMS! Where would it even get 4kW? It's all marketing mumbo jumbo.
I got a 5k with a failed output section anyone out there can walk me through it. Rail voltage is fine but I'm not getting anything from the output section
@@tarstarkusz Oh it's doable, however for continuous operation I would be seeing FET's with rdson values lower than 10 milliohm each. At that point you are paying hundreds in just FET costs alone. Also I would be seeing ETD59 cores at 75khz or ETD49 cores at 200khz for that power level with single turn center tapped primaries, not toroid cores.
+Robert... Even assuming you could hit such numbers at a particular peak, why would anyone want to do so, especially in a car? You are never even a meter from the speakers.
Instead of paying for such a ridiculous amount of power, the money would be much better spent increasing the quality of the components.
@@tarstarkusz (I'm not talking about peak power, I'm talking RMS in my supply designs.)
Because of space. With T/S you have three options and you can only pick two:
Small Box, Efficiency, Output. Power is cheap, space is at a premium in a vehicle.
Personally, I've got two 21" subs that at 100 watts each in a 55 cube box each will produce around 140 db on a calibrated mic. Unless you have a school bus that is walled off, this isn't possible in a vehicle. Thus you go with a lower total Q driver which must have lower efficiency for a smaller box at the cost of increased power. I don't like it either man, until subwoofers utilize mechanical servo control instead of electromagnetic control this is what we have.
Really glad i seen these two videos, I have a SPL Dynamics EXT-3000D that I killed about 10 years ago, I might give this a go to repair it myself as when I enquired about getting it repaired I was going to have to send it from Belfast to Mainland UK and the cost wasn't worth it at the time
As always great viewing and very informative, cant say ill be attempting it any time soon, far to complicated for me, looking forward to getting the amp back, would recommend Sam to everyone very professional and very quick will take the time to explain everything to you breaking down whats wrong and what will need doing
you are a genius,I've learned so much from you in these two videos.thanks
Excellent video with explicit explanations of the Do's and Dont's. Sometimes your hand gets on the way of the view. Detail views from different angles would be helpful. Thanks for the lovely video.
I want that 45 min stress test ! Don't tell me how wierd I can be on YT :P
its a pleasure the way you handle this lesson congrats
Barevids, nice video. I'm into electronics as well and it's really nice to see a repair on a high power amplifier. I really learned quite a bit from this video in addition to what I already know.
very informative and detailed too,, just as circuits are in the chain, and only replacing the parts failed but get you amp running but this tech checks all the circuit chain to see if they are failed causing the original trouble to begin with, which makes a better troubleshooter!
I always like the way you explain and do your repairs, i have a jbl some of the output transistors were out of range i left those that worked inside the amplifier but the rear channel won't work only the front
Man.... You're a great teacher... Much love from Chicago
Great video as usual. @4:15 It's not regulated at the moment, if it was regulated the duty cycle would drop to zero as there is no load. Also, because the regulator part of the circuit is monitoring b+ or b- and you have removed your diodes for testing there is nothing to monitor. You are seeing the soft start circuit which is used to minimize stress on fets and diodes while charging the caps from not to whatever the rails are. The controller board is a neat one on this amp as it uses 21844's, half bridge drivers that are intended to be used in mains powered equipment and I believe they are being fed by a discrete osc. pretty cool.
Hope you still out there just seeing videos alot off help liked the you explained been electrician for 23 years been playing way longer than that
You sir are excellent!!! I'm now more familiar with testing amps.
thank you for taking the time to do this vid.. i would love to learn this stuff. your the man.
thanks a lot for taking time. God bless UA-cam!
We are all good in the hood - this one is good👍. Nice lab, I like your 'scope, can't do D-class w/o it, very useful when fitting Mosfets that are slightly different than originals. One the best vids I have seen and you are knowledgeable. You're slightly nuts - bench testing, sh.. I would be slightly scared with that much power.
Freakin’ excellent vids. I’ve been debating on getting into amp repair also. I learned a lot. Thanks! 🔊🔊🔊
u r more skilled than me bro ive jus repaired a lightning audio small amp had protection probz an found it was the ground wire off the board easy compared 2 yor repaired cheerz bro fanks for the vid had it playing while i was repairing my amp
Finding this really interesting. I have alot of experience in general electronics and Hi-Fi audio but I knew little about car amps. Now I understand fundamentally how they work because of this excellent presentation. I've been asked many times in the past to repair car amps, but have declined due to my lack of knowledge. Now I think I'll buy up a few dead amps and develop my repair skills, then I'll start taking on some work. Very well done, I'm impressed with how much expertise you've developed in such a short time. Just a couple of tips. With the inductor, no need to remove a turn to recover lead length. Just hot snot (hot glue gun) the inductor back on the board, solder some solid copper wire into the board holes where the original inductor wires were, and then solder those to the inductor wires. With the low current test supply. Instead of using a low amp supply that current limits due to overload, get a bench supply with a variable current limit control. Your method works in a crude sort of way but a supply with current limit gives more control in a repeatable way.
For full current testing you will need to find some 15 volt, very high current, switch mode PSU's, preferably types that can be slaved so that the supply current required can be reached with multiple units instead of one big supply, which are more difficult to obtain, and very expensive! Fortunately for me, or not (reason will be clear a bit further on!), I have 3 Farnell H30-100 LINEAR supplies, that is 0- 30 volts at upto 100 amps! These can be slaved to give 300 amps! Superb supplies, being linear there is no noise, but they weigh 90 KG each! The big advantage of switch mode supplies is low weight and relatively small size.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
turboslag what about a nice battery bank with caps?
@@nerfinator03 Get both. Honestly the cost is a wash. If you want to keep it small, use LifeP04 batteries and a 50a 12v -15v smps. No need for caps, the amp you are repairing already has them.
If you have the time Get a 0-20v 50a PSU made by Power Ten Inc. You can mod them to output 100a of current, they can be slaved and they run on 120v.
Good job. I haven't repaired and amp yet, but at least now i have more confidence i could pull it off if I had too. I've designed and built many digital/analog devices as a part time EE hobbyist.
God Bless your talent!!! You're so very knowledgeable, to say the least, which is a rarity nowadays!!! Will give you thumbs up and subscribe. Simply put, I have learned a great deal with your Teaching, Tips and vast outstanding repair expertise. Keep up the good work!!!
You should do a video showing how to test each component of the amplifier and what they are supposed to read.
Only repairing amps for about 1 year you seem to be very knowledgeable in this niche field.
james middleton he was born for it🧐
Superb videos. I enjoyed every second of them👌👌 and i really would like to make same video in Finnish, just to spread the knowledge of car audio. If you don't mind. 🙏
amazing logic from the start to the end. Love the channel. Subscribed.
Great video, helps a lot if you are a beginner in car audio amps repairs !
Very cool dude . I truly enjoyed the two videos. Greg fall city wa usa . I look forward to the next videos
I keep magnets around for screws and clips I also use the power supply from and old computer I already had. Just remember to make sure you have it connected to amp before you power up power supply. And thanks for a Great video
Why not use a Bench DC power supply?
I just subscribed. You did exactly what i did on my little 2kw amp when the transformer broke of the board and killed half my psu and a capacitor.... Output stage was fine tho, saved me the hassle. Hell of a good job man, keep it up :D :D
I do have one comment, all of the people like yourself are showing the world how to fix and build the stuff but as u see I am from south Africa and there's no parts to make or build here and if there is its f....n expensive. But great show thanks. I have about R40 0000 invested in sound and still have problems
Thanks dude this video helped me massively as I couldn't figure out how to get the clips holding the mosfets to the heatsink out as my amp needed resoldering fingers crossed it worked
Amazing work 👌
Great job for doing amp repair only for a year.
Never seen anything like this, excellent step through. If I had to hand over an amp repair to a commercial tech I now have a better understanding what to expect as a legitimate repair job. More than happy to pay more for a proper repair that will last!
Thank you for a detailed demo I am new to amp rebuild and or repair. Good stuff Sir
great video i will like to see more of this type of videos
I've seen a lot of transistors fail due to broken connections. This is due to not just vibration but also from the expansion and contraction of the heat sink they are bolted to. I've found that before cutting the pins down to fit, bending them with a jig stops this.
All you need is a 10cm x 10cm board (piece of plywood), a 4 or 5mm dowel rod, a wooden ruler and some screws. Split the dowel lengthwise, sand the flat surface and glue to the center of the board.
To use it, screw the transistors to one side of the dowel with a gap slightly wider than the narrow edge of the ruler between the edge of the dowel and the surface of the transistor. Don't tighten! leave the legs to hang over the dowel snug but not tight. With a downward motion from slightly over the dowel use the narrow edge of the ruler and push down on the legs until the transistor body sets flat. Hold the ruler in place, use another piece of wood or plastic to bend the legs around the dowel giving a semi-circle bend while maintaining pin configuration. Now trim and install.
This is good advice and I wonder why no manufacturer does this although even some component manufacturers advise for it. On some old power amps I have even seen the output transistors just bolted to the heatsink and connected to the pcb via handsoldered wires.
Very good knowledge of electronics and simple and clear explanations. The perfect troubleshooting video in this area. We realize how badly these amps are designed at the base with the minimum protection. Every penny counts in this poor quality design. I speak as an engineer in the industrial field where such a product would not pass the first stage of testing. Your job clearly has a future;)
Practice is the mother of all skill.
actually in a switching circuit mosfets won't try to power eachother,so they don't have to be matched.I have even used different model mosfets together without issue in switching circuits,apart from that,great video
PetruV thanks dude, always adding to knowledge of finer details ☺
too right. Thank you for your knowledge and time
I concur with this. Since class D doesn't bias the mosfets. Furthermore each fet is balanced via the gate resistor which is why each gate has a resistor rather than one resistor feeding a bank of fets. This is to balance the on signal between fets.
see i still don't agree with this. The mosfets Drain pins are still paralleled to an inductor. if the mosfets in a parallel bank have significantly different Vg, which is the voltage required at the gate to switch on the fet, then some with turn on before others and since the drain pins are paralleled, that high voltage across the switched on fets will also be present at the drain pin which is yet to be switched on. this may be near or beyond the backwards voltage rating from drain to source. I have experienced first hand using fets of different batches in parallel and they do indeed heat up on idle, meaning something is happening between them to cause this. replace with all identical bank and they stay stone cold.
MOSFET gain vs drive voltage varies minimally.
Vds is not backward voltage, but blocking voltage.
Also, FETs have a body diode for reverse voltages.
There is plenty of info online.
Good job, and well done. This is a fine example of how theoretical (school) knowledge differs from hands on experience. Your testing methods (or better said; short-cuts) are not shown in engineering books, they are the results of field knowledge, handed down with apprenticeship . An engineer would most probably criticize them vigorously, but hey, if they work, they are fine. Three things I would like to mention; 1) That coil you made to lose one winding is a very easy coil to wind. It looks a lot, but actually it is just a few turns with many parallel wires. It would not cost much time and money to rewind it at all. You could have easily unwound it, kept the first lead just a tad shorter, wound it a little tighter with the same wires and I'm sure you would have enough lead to solder the other end without losing a turn. 2) The power calculation you do at the end has nothing to do with the output RMS power, what you calculated was the electrical consumption of the amplifier. Which is like 80-85% true with a class D amp like this one but would be way off with a class AB or A amp. Finally, It is always better to clean the old thermal paste completely with IPA while disassembling a unit, and apply new paste when re-assembling it. This will keep hands and everything else clean and new paste will work better than old and dried up one. Cheers! I totally enjoyed this video.
Thanks for your comments bud! The calculation at the end was in fact amplifier output however. We are reading voltage and resistance on the amplifiers speaker output terminals. The square law correction factor affects the rail voltage level directly which is where clipping is induced. By calculating how much higher the rail voltages would be with a couple volts higher power supply input voltage we can make a very accurate estimate of the change in output power to the speaker/load. These amps at 1ohm are around 75% efficient and if I had clamped the input power, to make 3000wrms would have required around 4.1k. ☺
I'm really excited to see a horn in a car, got a design for a folded horn in mine that should tune down to 32Hz, my idea is to use the back seat as the mouth of the horn, and have it curve up from the boot lid and over the top gradually expanding. The mouth ends up being 1.3x1m, and the length at 6m. Problem is whether or not I have people in the back seat will affect the tuning. Also, I've heard horns have some phasing issue where the wave doesn't properly form until one wavelength from the mouth, meaning the intensity won't be as high as a ported box even though it's technically more efficient.
Great video
Excellent vid, this - with proper explanations of why thing work & sometimes don't. I've not worked on one of these, but I'm guessing Class D with FM audio control? wasn't really covered in the talk.
Just one thing tho': & somebody else mentioned it here. The 'original' inductor has a zip tie holding it down, would have been better to use one on the 'repair' one (as well as gluing it down!). Mind you, the 'original might have been a repair. Either way, zip ties on both would be good practice. Also, if the headers used on the driver board aren't super tight, that might end up falling out too, due to vibration.
only a year dam im on year 3 and im still behind mr bare you have some skill
Nice. I am going to get into this. I have everything I need to start.
Great work brother!!
just watching you work and listening to how you approach problems and solutions was mesmerizing. its just too bad your not in the states because I would definitely have no problem with someone like you doing my repairs. I have some older equipment that needs a competent and thorough person as you are. my head unit is an Alpine 7949 preamp deck from 1998 and was their flagship unit. also I own an Xtant 3300i 3 channel amp also from the same year. I have not found any other system to match the quality sound they produced. Trying to find a shop or individual to do my repairs has been exhausting. You wouldn't by some chance know of someone here in the US you could refer me to?
Love your vids!! All the way from Hawaii.
The inductance of that toroidal is number_turns^2! Without knowing the effect on the audio signal I would have found a way to terminate that winding intact. Enjoyed the video. Maybe you got lucky and the difference is cancelled out by feedback.
Excellent quality, both repair labor, and video production. Would like to learn more about the power output estimation, any references you would like to share, books or whatever. Thanks.
32:00 Time to break out the larger diameter solder for those larger pads on the inductor!
Thanks about the content. Very well explaned
Job well done Sir..
Best tech porn ever for a bass head.
Petter Danielsson Ay BassHead!
Awesome info, thank you!👍
great jobs man
Great video.
Great videos, really enjoyed them both. One very slight criticism though, if it were me doing that repair, i would have taken out the heatsink insulators, cleaned off the old heatsink compound and applied new one. This would give better thermal conductivity. Maybe you did it and never mentioned it? Apart from that small observation, it was a great job!
Very interesting video, thanks.
New subscriber here, awesome channel!
Gr8 work maan yr awesome 👍👍👍😊
Well done
I have learned a lot! Thanks!
You should add a zip tie on the inductor as a strain relief just like the original one has. It will probably prevent it from breaking off the board again in the future.
Great work!
Cheap amplifiers rely on manufactured lots of MOSFETs. The higher end, professional grade MOSFET banks are "matched" MOSFETs, which are VASTLY more expensive, and provide higher quality audio fidelity.
love these videos
I've got a bang and olufsen Lear amp on my audi s4 problem is the front door speakers don't work. Where would you be looking first for only the front speaker no sound? The rest of the speakers and sub work.
Thanks for your videos I'm watching and learning with you. 😊
CoolCool Great brilliant I just pressed the like button and it went from 1.9 to 2K was it me? That got the magic 2k most exciting thing that's happened all day
Simply great!
Awesome work! You've got yourself another sub. I'm amazed that RS is still individually packaging components, used get right on my tits; ended up buying from Farnell instead.
thanks so much for sharing this.