I liked your Ninja Turtles story. Don't even waste your time trying to "explain" your hobby to people who don't get it, it's pointless. Nothing makes you look like a bigger tool than trying to explain yourself to people who are clowning you. I had to learn that lesson the hard way myself.
Right, I learned when I was 14, when you love something enough it's more beneficial to enjoy yourself than to worry about how much of a "nerd" you are perceived to be
But the people who "waste" their time to explain their hobby are the reasons why nerd culture are no longer being shunned like it used to and had become mainstream. I don't think it's as pointless as you make it out to be. Now, most people from the younger generations no longer bully or made fun of others for having interest in games or Ninja Turtles. If a kid laugh at their friends for reading Ninja Turtles, they will be the weird one while in the past, they're the norms. I saw it first hand, since my generation was in the middle of this transitioning process. I was made fun of during the first few years in highschool for liking games and anime but then suddenly it became normalise and now pretty much all my peers including me openly can share our hobby without being given the stink eye. Hell, my school and college now even officially added gaming as part of our extra co-curricular. If it weren't for my peers who "waste" their time time convincing the old people who didn't get it, we wouldn't have these shifts of perception and culture.
Dishonored manages to tell great story and isn’t riddled with cutscenes. The replay value is high too, given that every action you make affects Dunwall, character behavior and the ending.
Absolutely i am not paying huge amount of money for a game that has repeated gameplay,missions,bad level designs etc which i'm not even gonna replay dishonored is just like Bryan Cranston once said "You want people wanting more than being bored of the same content"
@@Albert-Freeman Key people that made these games special are no longer with Arkane, unfortunately. Tango Gameworks on the other hand released a banger of an action game this year and I’m confident their next project will be another banger.
This guys opinion sucks, I always thought that people like him must not have had a good childhood, and nobody likes them. Games like the last of us are powerful for people with a loving family and if you don't care for them than you must have never felt anything like that. That's what I think.
u cant be judgemental like him everyone has their own preference its true that the replay value is close to non existent because i know everything that's gonna happen when it's gonna happen but the story and the combat is great each game are different and can't be appreciated by everyone@@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et
The critique of the acting isn't right either. Critiquing MGS based on its English dub ignores both Kojima's actual (Japanese) production for the show as well as how outsourced the dub was
@@MiguelRodriguez-lp9etAll this "powerful" and "loving family" bullshit does not belong in gaming. ..... The whole point of this video just went right over your head .... Because of people like you - gameplay has now become irrelevant in video games. Everybody is now just trying to copy Naughty Dog and dumpster fire games like God of War Ragnarok. Now we're screwed - God of War Ragnarok sold 12 million as a console exclusive. So now the publishers will act accordingly - fire 75% of anyone who has anything to do with actual game design and bring in more Hollywood misfits to make their crappy interactive movies. I can't wait for GTA 6... What a sad pathetic state of affairs.
I mean the games are pretty fun and MGS5 open-ended missions are my favourite till date , but some-people will have problem if they have to watch an hour worth of cutscenes and codex calls before even starting the game , like in MGS2 after the tank the game restarts and throws in like an hour of codex calls restarting the tutorial which weakens the experience . I don't think story based games are for everyone and implementing that aspect into every AAA game tarnishes the modern average gameplay session , plus the games now aren't half as polished as any Metal gear game(gameplay wise) .
Ngl GTA and Red dead are not as bad as you say. you take a lot of random clips and basically make the games seem like they play like that majority of the time. While I will say majority of the gameplay is pretty basic. It does not make it absolutely terrible. According to your logic basically every time I drive in GTA it has to be like Forza and every time I fight in GTA it has to be like Sifu or else its complete trash. That is not the main focus. the main focus is to immerse you in it's open world.
The people handing out 10s to those games are a ridiculous extreme. But the guy who made this video is going to another level of extreme in the other direction. It's hard to take him seriously when he says some of these games are terrible. Even though the last of us 1 for example is probably overrated to say it's a 5 out of 10 is a bit much.
its not basic, its garbage, and also immersive and BOTH good gameplay games exist when you are rockstar, sitting on billions money from GTA online and you prefer to spend time to adds realistic pattern to NPC than fix the bounty system and improve the level design of your game, you deserve become hated from the fanbase who enjoyed the fun of your older games
@@lolilol3396Rockstar is not hated. There are rabid people on the internet like you that act as if your opinion is fact. But GTA6 will sell like crazy because millions of real life people like it
@@jacksonjacob7791People that use words like "overrated" dont respect other people's opinion. A review is an opinion. Nevermind internet critics. In real life you dont need a game has high level as The Last of Us for casual gamers to give it 10/10. In real life people, even coworkers are overly hyped to play the newest Call of Duty game. Reviewers are generally stricter than the average typical gamer. Most regular people playing games like God of War or even Fortnite say they love it woth their all. Because having FUN is what matters. People like this UA-camr thats so worked up on other people liking games he doesnt likely has plenty of personal issues
Im so glad someones talking about how so many games are "story-driven" but end up being 50% cutscenes or just walking listening to people talk, its bugged me so much when they started doing that
@@Jobocan. It might not be enjoyable to you but it is for many people. I don't mind my games being half movie half gameplay, I think that's perfecly fine. There are plenty of games where it's 100% gameplay already, we need variety in gaming.
Man's I want a bully 2 rockstar fucked us on that one. I want to make my own bully like game with some Xbox friends I play with. And see if they want onboard
honestly a think a really important factor in the decline of gameplay in favor of story, is that AAA companies are trying to fill a niche that is already filled; instead of taking advantage of gameplay and how it can contribute to a more engaging story, they're trying to make games more mainstream by making them cinematic and focused purely on the story. And since the companies doing this are often really popular and hold a certain amount of prestige, even if the game is mediocre at best, many people will buy the game, thus encouraging this. It's also the reason why indie games have gained so much attention and respect as of recently, because to stand out they have to do everything better, which is how we end up with great stories like Undertale, or great classic-style shooters like ULTRAKILL.
Which is insane when you think about it since Gaming is most certainly mainstream and has surpassed Cinema in relevance and income. These people are stuck 30 years ago.
But what about games like Journey, Abzu, What Remain of Edith Fintch and so on. There is a market for games that are light on gameplay but deep on story. Just like The Last of Us. I really don’t understand why ya’ll have a issue with that
@@Indigo_1001 I enjoy those games! The thing is like, the critique towards games like that is that often they might or might not take advantage of gaming as a medium. TLOU notably got adapted into a TV show, which makes you wonder whether it would've done just as well if they released it as a show from the beginning. Abzu or Edith Finch take advantage of their gameplay, and sort of merge the story and gameplay. In contrast, the story of TLOU could well exist independently. Like, games absolutely can have cutscenes and they're allowed to tell stories in different ways, but (at least in my opinion) the essence of videogames lies in the "playing" part, and if your videogame is essentially story beats with gameplay in between, wouldn't it be easier to tell that story in a better-adapted medium? As I'm writing this I'm realizing that part of the conflict in this whole debate is accessibility, and reaching different audiences. The story games I enjoy, such as Hades, Undertale, Outer Wilds, Soma, Celeste, Dead Cells.... they always link their gameplay to their story. And maybe people just, don't enjoy that? And prefer games with simpler gameplay where the story takes precedence. Or maybe it's a topic of perception - the videogames i mentioned are very *videogamey*, while modern AAA games like TLOU are more "realistic" and might seem less niche or unappealing for a wider audience. Idunno, maybe I can't speak much because I have yet to play many games, but ig that's the whole *thing* abt cinematics and cutscenes and whatnot. Would love to hear your opinion further, I find this topic rlly interesting
This video actually brings me back to an interesting paper I wrote about Gaming Media back in my first year of college. I remember citing and reading an article from Creative Director, Yoko Taro (director of NieR Automata/Replicant) and how he stated that video games are losing their relevancy by going more for interactive film styles and forgetting to be “games”. That’s why he, as a creative director, has always strived to making a narrative and story that’s deep and compelling but doesn’t take away from the action and set pieces that are presented. While “cinematic” video games aren’t exactly bad (as in I still enjoy GOW and TLOU), I think there needs to be a balance between the two so the media as a whole does not forget what makes a video game… a VIDEO GAME
There needs no balance. You purchase a game you like, you avoid games you don't like. Games are a form of art, much like music. Quality depends on the personal perspective of the consumer
Lets not forget, ART quality depends on the individual person's enjoyment. Games as art are like that. I am not a TLOU fan but I know plenty of men and women (not on the internet) madly inlove with TLOU to the point of obsession. One of my coworkers is madly inlove with God of War and considers it perfect. I wont tell him he is wrong. Thats how he perceives that art piece. You dont have to share that opinion .
I think it’s pretty subjective if one likes games with a lot of cutscenes or not. If anything, why even have cutscenes to begin with when everything could happen during gameplay? Why even have have a story? Player engagement. Even the tiniest input from the player can be a form of gameplay. Choose your own adventure games are the pinnacle of stuff like that. Such games are literally: “click on an option” -> *something happens* and then repeat and a lot of people still love those.
I think a counterpoint to this is... can you think of any choose your adventure game that is considered a great game? I can't. The point being that the minimal player interaction counts *heavily* against the genre. As far as I know, the entire genre is mostly associated with children, again speaking to the point that it is not gameplay anyone considers good.
@@MA-go7ee Determining if something is good by looking if its popular is an incredibly inefficent way to judge quality. Or you would have to concede that Cinematic Games are masterpieces. Still those who played Disco Elysium and Scarlet Hollow, both Choose your own adventure games, have overly positive reviews, which at least shows that there is value in that genre. Gameplay musnt be just about clicking buttons at every chance. Paying attention to the story and clues, so you can carefully consider your choices can be incredibly engaging. And if your choices shape the story, it is incredibly cathartic.
The main problem IMO with these movie-like games is that, if I'm gonna spend $60-$70 in a videogame, I don't want the meat of the experience to be something I can easily just watch on UA-cam. The story should serve the gameplay, not the other way around, because games are supposed to be by nature an interactive experience. Mass Effect is a perfect example of how story driven games should actually be, letting you make choices on every turn which have consequences, and giving you freedom to decide whether you want to take the honorable path or the ends justify the means one in pretty much every situation you encounter.
@@Lenny01 What I'm clearly implying is that if the interactive experience is lackluster, then the game's worth is not really $60-$70, few people would really pay that for a movie. And saying shit like "oh don't watch / buy / play it then" is always a cheap way of trying to deflect criticism towards something, as a consumer you are entitled to criticism especially since this has affected the quality of many games in the industry, and there are some people like me that do not want this to become the gold standard over actual games with good gameplay.
I disagree about the story part. A game is highly enhanced by a good plot, playing as a warrior and destroying monsters with a fleshed out story and motivation behind them feels different than slashing no name thugs even if the gameplay is identical. A good story immerses you in the world, every bullet, every swing of your sword, every explosion feels more impactful. It's not the focus on telling good stories that brings down games, it's that the people who make said games often time forget the gameplay part. A lot of talentless game developers who wish they'd be making movies instead of games give story driven games a bad reputation.
Dude, you clearly missed the point, the most important part of a game is the gameplay, story can be trash and you can still enjoy a game when there is good gameplay, but a game with trash gameplay and good or great story is no longer a game, it would be more of a movie or tv show.
@@zxcytdfxy256 I think YOU missed the point, the most important part of a game is being engaged and having fun. How the game achieves that is irrelevant. People like to separate story, gameplay, visuals, etc. In reality a game is the sum of its parts. The story enhances the fun factor for people the same way sound design and visuals do. If you strip away the story you strip away a layer of meaning, you remove a reason for people to care. Half Life 2 is considered one of the greatest FPS games of all time, when people talk about it they always bring up the story and the journey. Remove the worldbuilding context and the story and all you're left with is a game in which you mostly shoot generic guys in gas masks. All of the impact you feel when you shoot down a combine soldier disappears with the removal of the story, the story literally adds to the fun factor. People think that you can just boil down everything to the base mechanics as if that's the only thing that matters. Remove the context (story), remove the visual flare (character animations, recoil, textures, explosion particle effects), remove the sounds and blood effects, etc. What you have is pure gameplay mechanics, but it's no longer fun. If your opinion on story in games was true, games would evolve to be less and less story driven, yet it's the opposite. Story sells. Even Doom became more story and lore driven. If you want a gameplay driven game, you can play sudoku. No fancy graphics, no storyline or feedback enhancing sound effects. Just pure gameplay. Most people don't want that though.
Gameplay will forever be King honestly. I can appreciate good stories but I don’t give a fuck if the gameplay isn’t good. TLOU and RDR2 get away with mid gameplay because their stories are so well done, but other games like GOW 2018 or Horizon have boring gameplay and mid stories.
@@snark567 while i do agree story enhances a game it should not do it to the point where it detriments gameplay. All of those unskippable cutscenes and parts of the game where you essentially just hold the analog stick forwards will forever be a plight to video games. If you want to have a part in a game where the characters converse put it in a skippable cutscene so that it’s replay value wont be diminished. Gow ragnarok has excellent gameplay but the first few hours has a fuck ton of parts where it is unskippable cutscenes or sequences where you do nothing but hold the forward button while also having a pretty good story
His take on mgs really makes you feel like he didn't play it and just hates it for no reason He is saying it is bad because boss fights are bad which is hilarious since they are stealth games they aren't dark souls or any other fighting game they aren't games that focus on boss fights thay focus on "STEALTH"
@@hussienmohamed7420 that's a very poor argument. If the boss fights are going to be ass just make them cutscenes. Not being in a particular genre doesn't give you license to halfass parts of your game. That being said I don't think MGS has egregiously bad boss fight, at least none I can recall right now. A few of them even do make sense in the context of an action stealth game which disproves your point even more. Kojima and Co clearly could design good bosses so some not landing is not good.
He literally picks up few things ifhe doesn't like and calls the whole thing bad. I was so done with his take on TW3 story. He just said it's boring and moved on without even objectively mentioning anything. He sounds like a COD player who doesnt has the patience to digest complex stories and a bit stretched cutscenes. Although it's a free country to share opinions, his opinions sucks ass tbh.
@@road_free did you listen to the whole thing? Anyways, the real reason is *trauma.* He told you why.. his crush laughed at him, & now he does the same
The Witcher 3's influence over game development has more to do with game developers than gamers clamoring for more The Witcher 3. It's the same effect that Dark Souls and Borderlands had on the industry. Every game suddenly became a souls-like or a looter-shooter.
Im with you and Sony is failing because of this trend: expensive graphics, motion capture, actors and renowned musicians and you have this wannabe movies costing 200 million dollars, and the returns are very little.
You are 100% wrong on Sony failing because of this. 100% of the time if a game is more story driven or has lengthy cutscenes, gamers come out of the woodwork calling it a walking simulator, or some other 10 dollar phrase they heard on the internet. The arcade action you crave, or games that duve right into it, they still exist.
What you're really saying is games can have a great story, they just shouldn't be TOLD like a movie, and I agree completely. Games have their own mechanics of telling a good story that transcends just traditional linear media. I have no idea why AAA developers insist of following this tired visual mechanics of a cutscene.
You won't get through to these modern gamers, most of them want movies over gameplay. Many of them don't really understand the concept you talk about or know any better, and will reduce your arguments to 'complaining' because they also don't understand standards.
I mean you can only go so far with game mechanics for gameplay and cannon. I also don’t mind cinematic scenes between gameplay or really had a problem with it. It’s a story after all. Seeing some animation, composition is cool.
No the game is bad because it has a cringe gameplay and it's focused just on the graphics and story Well if you want a game just for it's graphics and story go watch a movie instead
Honest to God this is a very fair critique of the current industry and majority of people who disliked it are the ones the industry is catering to. Games like GOW 2018 and Uncharted 4 happen when developers stop making games for the fans and start making them for a new audience that didnt care about the previous installments in a franchise, same shit happened to Assassin's Creed in the latest ones are you EVEN an assassin anymore? Im gonna go on a roll here and say this is very specifically unique for WESTERN videogames. The Mario games for example will NEVER stop being platformers and will never make such a drastic change like GOW 2018 did where they butcher the combat for a mediocre story that might as well have been a movie. Videogames should stop trying to prove themselves to people that AREN'T even fans.
Man it's so tough, I feel like on so many points you hit the nail on the head but there are so many things I personally deem as non-issues. Great video man, got me using my brain for once.
I have always had a list of video games that are favorite. They always change throughout the years, but one game that has never changed, is my number one spot. A game so perfect, I could talk for literal HOURS on how good it is. Halo 3. A fantastic story, AMAZING soundtrack, greatest multiplayer, gameplay so fun it could make me cry, and memories I will never forget. If there was one word to describe this game, it's Believe. Perfect video game.
It's not my number one pick, but if it were voted as the best videogame of all time, I wouldn't disagree. Shit Halo 1, 2, and 3 all deserve a spot on the top of any list. The best part is they still play GREAT to this day. Halo 3 especially has aged so incredibly well
I don't know man, I found Halo 3's campaign pretty disappointing. It has a great level design and the last chapters are amazing, but I felt that for most of the game nothing really happened. I found quite evident that Halo 3's ending was supposed to be in Halo 2 and so they had to stretch all the story to make an entire new game.
@@tenacious645 I have a very emotional connection to the game, which is pretty much I put it at such high regard. It gave me the best memories of my life, I gotta give it credit for it.
your take is extreme , if story doesnt matter , than you can play multiplayer or coop online games , , if story doesnt matter , you are like playing side stuff in everygame ....i can agree with you when game studios limit your gameplay , like in the dark anthology games , but to say story doesnt matter is a weird take , for me once i finish the main story , the game is done , and a good story is what makes my games and holds my interest , if i just want to shoot or jump , ill play arcade or multiplayer games
5:10 Yh, I have to disagree on the "Kratos had selfish, childish rage" point. I've seen this opinion a lot and it's almost as if no one remembers the old games' events. I'll concede that he went overboard when he begun to involve innocent bystanders in the matter (towards the end of the saga). But after all the gods of olympus had done to him... they got what was coming to them. Great vid btw
He did sell his soul to the gods, to save his worthless hide. After that, Ares owned him. That's what you get... temporary enlightenment. But you will rue the day, in the end. Kratos deserved everything he got. Seriously one of the worst characters, in gaming history. It's David Jaffe and Corey Balrog, what do you expect? Two of the biggest frauds in the industry. Kratos is beyond awful. And by this point, is pretty much irredeemable. The sooner he gets his final comeuppance, the better.
@@lonestar6709 Yeah it's almost like Kratos is an archetypical Greek "Hero" who does a lot of fucked up shit and suffers for it. Wait... it's almost like that was the point?
@@lonestar6709 Crazy that Kratos is a part of a horrible cycle and ends up also being a horrible person. Almost like GOW 3's ending implied this to be the case. And its the main reason Kratos lives how he is now. If you're going to hate a story, at least understand the themes and intentions.
@@lonestar6709That’s the point. He isn’t meant to be a good character. That’s why the third game ends with him ending his life. The idea that he deserves forgiveness only comes from the new games. In the classic games, the gods are awful and Kratos was awful and the best thing that could happen to mankind was the fact they all died and released hope upon the world.
@@combatbenyamin Except that the person who he was responding to said "Yh, I have to disagree on the "Kratos had selfish, childish rage" point. " He was responding to that.
All that matters is the experience. If it needs a lot of cutscenes to tell a good story, fine. MSG4 was the most cutscene heavy game I ever played, and it was memorable and a great experience overall. MSG5 had much less cutscenes, was very sandbox-y, a very enjoyable game, lots of replay value, but not as memorable as MSG4, and specially MSG3 was. Also games don't need to be "deep" to be good. I love Total War games, and it's all about managing resources and manouvering armies. Your towns are hit by plagues - historical plagues that wiped thousands if not millions of people IRL (like Black Death) and you just treat it as "need more sanitation buildings". That's whow "deep" it goes. And it's still fun, which is what matters most in a game. IMHO what pisses me off most in new games is the lack of ability to do what you imagine you can. Like going to a mountain just to learn its out of bounds, or not being able to customize your appeareance/items/looks. The rest is what we always expect: a high chance someone will mess up the story somehow.
I can see this from both perspectives. I love a lot of different types of videogames that I get my hands on, and since I love stories due to my love for writing, I play a healthy amount of both types. Funnily enough I had the reverse of this conversation a few months ago, and I think it's sort of relevant. I had a friend say that he expected more from the story in the Mario movie. My whole thing was that they had to connect the little bit of story that Mario games provided and make something that stretched to an hour, so in reality, going to watch that movie for a story was a lost cause. I liked the Mario movie because it was just fun. It was simple, but fun like a Mario game, and I liked that. I do think in cases like God of War and Uncharted it's fair to be disappointed with what they turned into, since those games were different from what they started as. My only thing is that I feel that if a game started as something story based like Metal Gear and Last of Us for example, I feel like the story is its own form of enjoyment that deserves its place or chance alongside games where the gameplay is the prime reason to enjoy it. We could have had a Last of Us show originally, but if you put it in competition with Walking Dead it would have likely been buried. And though Metal Gear was clunky, Kojima used the console to bring characters to life and fuck with the player too. I don't really care whether the story, the gameplay or both take the reigns when a videogame comes out (though I prefer both being good). I just want it to be fun. If you take away the story though, it ends up being like COD or some platformers where it ends up being the same because it's just gameplay. Take away the gameplay and you end up with The Order 1886 and visual novels where the dialogue is what keeps you awake.
also, it's not as binary as he puts it in the video. meaning it's not just about either the gameplay or the story. there's a lot of other aspects to games than just those two. specifically in the case of rockstar games, he says people play those for the story, which is just simply not true. sure, the stories in those games are great, but you play rockstar games to explore the amazingly crafted open worlds they have. then there's the aspect of "choice" you get in rpgs, there's the amazing art styles and visuals in games, there's sound design, there's immersion etc etc. like bro it's not just as simple as gameplay or story.
Even if I disagree with some of your opinions I appreciate how unapologetic and honest you are in holding them. Good video, really caused myself to think about videogames. Also, I enjoyed the little illustrations towards the end of the video. Very neat.
I think theres always been a yearn for "Experiences" over pure gaming. Basketball and Chess are "Games" in the traditional sense. No production values, music, acting, or scenes. There is an audience who loves games and theres an audience who loves stories, movies, tv, books etc. So therefore yes I don't think there is a problem with bringing the two mediums together bc clearly there is demand for them. Even back in the 80's there were movie tie in games for E.T and Star Wars. They were made bc they knew there were people who wanted to experience being inside the world from the movie. The problem is the over saturation of these types of experiences, and the lack of balance in the industry now, which I agree with.
I dont know what your talking about but sounds like your playing semantics. Some things lean way more into being experiences than games. The tell tale games are an example, very little gameplay but tons of story and set pieces. @@LakevusParadice
I like your style, and I am one of those people who love good stories in videogames, honestly your critizism is very good, you arw making me question how much I value a good story if I am honest, good job
a game can also have a good story, but the gameplay has to be as fun as well. I think the god of war series kinda proofs it, at least for me. While I do like the story of the whole series, at the end it's the classic ones I often return to, while the new one I played at best twice and so far I'm not even sure if I wanna give ragnarok a try if the gameplay is the same. heck, this color swapped mini bosses where already huge letdown.
This guy is making fallacious arguments. Just because a game has an amazing story, DOESNT mean its gameplay is bad. In fact, sony is making one of the best gameplays of 3rd person shooter and melee combat of the entire industry with Lou 2 and Gow Ragnarok respectively. They are literally going above and beyond not just providing incredible gameplay but also movie levels of character development and story. I hope they continue on this path. I' glad this guy is in the minority otherwise we'd all be playing games like Tetris just because it has 'good gameplay'. Trash criticisms I say.
For me, combining an interesting story and atmosphere with good gameplay is the ideal solution. I prefer to have an interesting story because that's what keeps me going, but I also prefer being able to actually play that story, not watch it. I didn't grow up during the boomer times, I grew up during the PS2 era where I feel like games already had that ideal balance. Still, I'm not gonna say that I dislike every game that's like 50% cutscenes. Mass Effect and Witcher are heavy into dialogue and cutscens but if I find them genuinely interesting, I still consider them great. But those are RPG's. RPG's are supposed to be story rich and heavy on dialogue where you decide your actions and affect the story.
Mass effect is a bit different since many of its cut scenes are interactive. You choose what the character says and it's part of the gameplay loop. Games like Uncharted 4, GOW2018 or TLOU don't have that, they simply play a long cut scene without any player input.
exactly there should be a balance but if you have matured in life, you will not care about gameplay, people who care about gameplay 95% of the time are immature, insecure people who care too much about video game. I think red dead redemption 2 is perfect.
You’re totally right. But the gameplay in THe Last of Us 2 is brutal and fantastic. Fuck the story - shooting and vaulting and blowing people up is always fun there.
I agree to your point about the lack of proper gameplay when it comes to most AAA releases post last of us. But your point abuot MGS and heck even the other games you pointed out to dislike such as Nier automata are games made with a very niche audience in mind. i will unapologetically say that those games are not bad both in story or gameplay sense, they are just not made for you. MGS story is hard to follow i agree but calling it post modern meta bullshit is really underselling the effect it has had on the industry and the thought provoking effect it has had on players such as me. Also another point i would like to make is that even though its probably not your intention, a lot of your opinions just come off as subtle gatekeeping. While modern releases surely have a decreased focus on gameplay, games such as DMC, Resident Evil, and Ratchet and Clank still exist. And in my opinion gameplay should never be the main priority of a game unless the vision of the developer is entirely tied to that. Video Games as a medium is perfect to allow people to interact and immerse themselves with worlds, characters and stories they could only ever have had read or watched. The interactivity with narrative based games still exist and thats why people are slowly preferring games to other mediums. This is not a hate post. I seriously agree with a lot of points you made, but try to differentiate biased opinions from actual constructivity. Calling a game bad because you think its story is post modern bs and its gameplay is not engaging for you, is not really a credible way to call it objectively overrated or bad. And before you consider that I am a new gen ignorant gamer. My favourite games of all time ate Devil May Cry 3, RE 4, A link to the past, Spider-man Web of Shadows, MGS, FFX and MvC 3 Ultimate. So yeah i have played a shit ton of games in my mere 18 years of lifetime
Near the end of the video, he completely loses me when he basically said that he doesn't care about others people negative opinions of what he think is good... But throughout most of the video, he clearly cares about what majority of people opinions of what good in games.
@@Cookie.2118 Yes he is contradictory to a fault. He tries to make himself look non judgemental but at the same time makes judgements about shit he has not idea about. And whenever someone questions his taste it's always the "I have been playing games before games were popular" bs. And how the fuck is making communities based on games a bad thing? We have communities of sports, books, shows and every type of media ever given to us, so how do games make the exception for us to be told to touch grass?
@@Cookie.2118 Honestly man the more I watch this video, the more I am finding absolutely biased judgemental claims that he has not right making with the "subjective" attitude he is claiming to have. And it's pissing me off. I care for games, I have been playing games since I was 4 on my cousin's PC, we did not even have graphics card, but we still made do with software such as Swift shader and 3d analyse through which we enjoyed the fuck out of many games in 10fps. So looking at people taking the medium for granted and just spouting about complaints that should not even exist is rage worthy for me. We have performance issues, crunch and live service practices plaguing our industry, and people are still feuding about what direction games today should to take regardless of the fact that games akin to the experience both parties want exist seperately for them to enjoy.
@@kimetsunoacademia3528 seriously, I disagree with everything he said about rockstar games and I'm not even a fan of Rockstar. The controls are really not that bad (not to mention him playing Vice City on a old laptop that could barely run it... Acting like the game is the problem).
@@Cookie.2118 Ikr, Rockstar games controls are just product of their time, GTA V and Red dead don't even control bad, Idk what he is on about. It's like saying old resident evil games are bad because you can't get used to the tank controls, even though everything else is excellent.
Been saying this for years. Casuals have lowered the standards for gaming overall, rewarding companies who make games that are closer to movies than they are to games. People waste money on those games, play one game thinking it's good because looks what they think of a quality product (or simply a hollywood production) and companies will keep making trash because of that cycle. This and the allowance of outsiders who force feed things like feminism in games is how AAA games have gotten worse and worse over the years.
I don't think a story even if it's 20/10 can makeup for bad gameplay, but a good gameplay can make up for a 0/10 story. I play videogames to play them. I'll always hold gameplay as the most important thing
As someone who recently became interested in storytelling through video games, I totally agree that game developing companies are milking the movie game genre as an excuse to have boring or unoriginal combat/game-mechanics. I found it funny GoW 2018 was brought up because after dumping hours into that game, I went back and played the original GoW 1 on ps3 and I was shocked to find it very fun and fast-paced. So although I think video games can be used to tell a compelling story, the gameplay must not suffer; if there's people who want an engaging story then they should just read a book or watch a movie lol.
I love a good story but you gotta have engaging gameplay as well when a game can balance both its the best like ghost of Tsushima is a good example of balance the boss fights are engaging they don’t overdue cut scenes
I think thats not all, also the gameplay HAVE to reflect what the story is about, thats why What Remains of Edith Finch is maybe the best videogame ever made, cause in most games the gameplay keeps in the same way during the entire game only giving you new abillities maybe but when the game requires you to interact wit the soroundings, your only options are to shoo, punch, jump or talk. But Edith Finch even refuses its own genere being not only a walking simulator but also leacing you interact in pretty different ways withim its episodes, of course all of them are some kind of simulation, but they also offer different points of view and you go along with the story, not having to stop playing just to hear someone else talking to you
Video games will always be my favorite storytelling medium BECAUSE of the gameplay. They're stories designed to be interacted with. Yes, some pull this balance off better than others, but to turn around and say that means the entire medium is inadequate for storytelling is reductive and cynical. That's tantamount to saying "Because superhero movies suck, movies are terrible at storytelling." You're personal experience with a game's story vs mechanics is purely anecdotal and not a summary of ALL player's reactions. Go play Pong if you don't want story.
It's funny the cultural basis that people have today, not even able to know what is good and bad. This comment about terrible storytelling in games isn't anecdotal at all, if you read any paper about narratology and ludology in videogames, you pretty much know the issues and contradicts in videogame storytelling, like the interruption of flow, the contradiction between interactive gameplay and non-interactive storytelling, the difficult to develop an aesthetics analysis of the game medium, the obsolescence of writing techniques in games, when compared to writing techniques in theater, cinema and literature and etc; saying that videogames has good storytelling just because you liked, that is an anecdotal argument, and your analogy between "Bacause superhero movies sucks, movies are terrible at storytelling" and the argument of videogames being terrible at storytelling, it's a fallacious analogy, first movies and videogames are not the same type of medium, movies are a passive medium and videogames are an active medium, movies are more similar to literature and paintings, because they're passive mediums too; videogames are more similar to table and board games, because they're active mediums; because the category of the object is different, an analogy between this two objects are fallacious, second the argument isn't because games with bad storytelling sucks, so games arebad at storytelling; the argument is about the storytelling in the medium itself, that contradicts the function of the storytelling mediums. Literature and Cinema are mediums with the function of narrative experience, games are mediums with the function of ludic experience, they're opposites, and that is a fact, the existence of Ludonarrative Dissonance it's a proof of it.
Stories can enhance video games but as a "storytelling medium" video games are heavily flawed. Very few authors would pick this medium as a first choice. You'll run into a lot of problems you wouldn't run into otherwise. Comparing The Last of Us to superhero movies is ridiculous, as TLoU is regarded as the absolute peak of storytelling in games, and superhero movies are seen as "not cinema".
More on other people's perceptions: I feel a lot of people in the industry (media and developers) have an inferiority complex around their careers, they are obsessed with games being seen as 'art' and emulate Hollywood and cinema with their linear storytelling, game awards, etc. Rather than being interested in games as its own medium, that's still pretty new.
I love ur perspectives on gaming. In part, i feel like i definitely agree while obviously carrying my own opinions. But nice insight, on top of being contrary to the general beliefs with backing up with examples without just being contrarian just to be one. 👌
The real issue is that most people don't have real preferences or experience "fun". They're just husks following what someone else is doing. Since this is most people games end up becoming stale due to emulating what these people have been programmed to think fun is. There's a big difference between woah this gameplay looks fun to me and woah this game checks all the "fun boxes".
I won’t I will never let another person tell me what games I enjoy especially the ppl who keeps buying 2k and cod the same game for $70 is crazy my guy
Reminds me of how i made myself believe i play games for story. Now i play games for what i actually enjoy, long-term satisfaction of gameplay, exploring and leveling... and also visual and musical aesthethics, and my tastes are rather specific.
Recent story games are just that: stories. Because of this, I consume a huge amount of story game content on UA-cam, but almost never play the games myself. In this way, the games would function better as movies or tv shows. Not only is the gameplay boring as hell to the point a cant play it, but sometimes it gets so tedious I even skip the video ahead. No one wants to watch 4 hours of repetitive filler gameplay until the next big plot point
Those 3 minutes of gameplay felt much longer to me since 90% of the time I tried to be stealthy and only used CQC and the tranquilizer gun when it was necessary and I sucked so bad I basically spammed load at some parts. The cutscenes did feel really long though and I feel so biased for loving these games while disliking pretty much every other game that does this.
I agree with this a lot, idk tho it’s totally subjective but a lot of times story can muddle gameplay, good video mate and gl with future uploads. I personally liked the first TLOU the second one was meh, never played god of war or any uncharted but. I always liked how souls games tackle gameplay and story, the story is deep if you want it otherwise you can just go through with some epic areas and boss fights. There's always a risk with putting so much emphasis on the story it's a double edged sword because, it all relies on good writing for it to be effective. Everything is subjective at the end of that day but.
Thank you sir, that useless camera just took the jam out of my donut. It was the worst thing they could have done, it shatterd the the engaging pace that set God Of War apart from other action adventure games.
19:44 goess off to bad mouth one thing, says there are way better, proceeds to name 0. dude, am i supposed to schizo-guess what you mean? you make the claim, provide the better example. for everyone else: games that came around metal gear solid 1998: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Grim Fandango, Banjo-Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, Resident Evil 2, Tenchu: Stealth Assassins, Parasite Eve, Tomb Raider III which doesn't matter anyway because these are not games that could've influenced MGS cause they released that same year. other genres: Tekken 3, Half-Life, Metal Gear Solid, Thief: The Dark Project, Baldur's Gate, Einhander, Starcraft, Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus, Fallout 2, Falcon 4.0, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, F-Zero X, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, Xenogears, WipeOut 64, Dead or Alive, Final Fantasy Tactics, Castlevania, Quake 31:00 no. that's the entire point. if you make sh** claims with no backup then no wonder you get backlash, instead thinking you're giving good takes and thinking people are just butthurt. 35:10 I mean you feel so unique why you care where the industry goes? You're full of contradictions.
@@zaydagoat6952 top notch what by been an anime type gameplay ?why edgy nerds have to be so insufferable like we got it y'all like jrpg or games with "gameplay" but those games still there why complain when a game is different of what you like have to give you depression or something is almost like an incel who gets mad when girls pick other guys and not him
I love when Clint said "It's objectifying time" and objectified gamers taste and invalidated other gamers preference just to trash the game, which is majority by gamers, is beloved and even complaint about making some unnecessary slow gameplay (like the uncharted one) into cutscene then complains that games have too many cutscenes (God of war) and then later make a claim that "there are other games released in the era of MGS that have better story and gameplay" while also not putting those games that is better than MGS at that time to support his argument and also forgetting that at that time games tries to create their own charm to set up their franchise. Truly a video essay of all time.
I love when he's like " Oh I hate when people judge me for my preferences" but the moment someone tells him about the story in a story-driven game , he gets mad lmao This dude has no critical thinking skills at all lmao.
I aint gon hold you, at first i thought you were trippin. But now i see your point. I'm at the begining of Spiderman 2 and they litterally have a mission objective called "tidy up" which was highkey just a fancy cutscene that leads into an actual cut scene, followed by a bike riding scene (another fancy cut scene) and then followed by another cut scene. WTFFFFFFF
I don't have the same opinion than you on most of the games you didn't like in the video but i totaly agree on your message where games should not have a story that take too much place within the game, negatively affecting the gameplay or using the story to make a game looks like a good game where it actually barely is one without its story. Same thing for your opinion on the "DC movies are cooler cause they are dark and mature and marvel is for child" that you use as an example.
The over-emphasis on story is one of the reasons _why_ I love older games so much: When they do have a story, they often do their best to balance out the writing and plot with the gameplay, and sometimes have them interact with each other in cool ways. And in fact, some games still do this; the Souls series and Armored Core VI being perfect examples of this, but nowadays, the over-emphasis on story often results in interactive movies with lacklustre gameplay. It might not be the biggest problem with modern AAA gaming, but it is still pretty big.
This right here. I spend more time playing older games than newer ones. But I also am one of those gamers who really doesn't care about story in games. But like you said older games seemed to balance out story and gameplay .
I agree with this take. There needs to be a balance between the two. And I feel part of it also comes down to the writing and cinematography of said games. When your watching a cutscene, sometimes its best to just let the scene play. Let players get attached to the characters or setting via through editing, facial language, or pacing. Don’t have this need to throw in big set pieces with over the top dialogue, or scenes where literally nothing is explained yet shown just… because. There has to be a balance
@@dandre3K having cinematic qualities or a story is not the same thing as trying to be a movie. All mediums draw from other mediums. This is normal and even desirable. Also games can do things with its story telling and cinematics that movies can not.
@@nathanhargenrader645 So you agree that at least some popular videogames are movie like. Videogames as a medium are simply interactive software. Most definitions don’t exclude things like adobe photoshop. A proper game is a specific kind of activity. Interaction by itself isn’t gameplay. A videogame doesn’t necessarily include an actual game. A videogame lacking in gameplay is an interactive movie. In real life this what so called normies see, “This is like watching a movie”. That’s not a judgment on my part just literal observation. We’re talking about completely different products that we happen to refer to as “games”, the problem is people get butthurt when you call their games puzzles or movies like those are bad things.
@@dandre3K I agree with almost everything you said but I do think the nuance is important. Again having qualities that are akin to a movie is different than trying to be a movie. What I take offense too is stances that many take and this video at least partially proposes is that games that are more movie like should just be a movie and have in some way lost their video game-ness somehow. It’s the idea that cinematic qualities or focusing on interactive storytelling and less on gameplay is inherently bad.
Ok I've been gaming a long time and I've plenty of games that focus on story with 5-10 minute cutscenes and through gameplay and text. Now it seems instead of that they opt for 20-60 min cutscenes (depending on your game) and utilise no other method. Basically turning it into a film. I encourage you to go back and play older games and see for yourself. You will see exactly what people are complaining about.
Gamers largely aren't really gamers anymore; they're overstimulated people with attention span issues who cannot sit still enough to watch a movie or read a book, so they sing praises for interactive movies calling themselves videogames. I write books, I watch movies, I play video games; I don't mix the three, and it's not for lack of trying. I played RDR2 and hated its gameplay, controls feeling awful, gameplay depth itself rather shallow, with its only real selling point being a story and some visuals(if you had the hardware to fully appreciate said visuals.) I played MGS V and found it to be one of the WORST games I've ever played in spite of its high praises; the missions are boring, the world map is bland, the controls are awful(though that's nothing new for MGS games), and the core gameplay is just repetitive filler-esque busywork with shooting involved. Only thing it has going for it is, once again, story and cinematics. I played newer Assassin's creed games and they felt very similar, albeit far grindier like a single player MMO. Hell, this goes as far back as the early 2010's, with things like skyrim, which is basically an elder scrolls movie game; zero narrative influence from the player, less responsive movement, NPC's forcing interaction frequently, lots of gameplay responsiveness overall sacrificed for "immersive" animations and the like. Games need to be games first, built on gameplay concepts, and then a narrative and visual style added later. A lot of these games feel like they were built in reverse: a story concept placed as the highest priority, followed by a visual style, and then some generic mechanical elements tacked on so it could be sold as a game instead of a movie built in a game engine.
@@fawkkyutuu8851Far Cry 3 is a great example of the gameplay and the story contemplating on another. The more you kill and become adapt to the environment, you change into a crazed tribal killer like Vaas. Micheal Mando performance as Vaas is basically a reflection boss/villian of what the player turns into. Jason Brody- the player - basically is a new Vaas after we kill him.
First paragraph seems a little elitist pretentious-ey but I do agree to an extent and especially with that second paragraph. Gameplay is what MAKES a game, hence the term. I wish more studios would realise that there is a market for these gameplay-driven games tho. Titles like Doom Eternal was a massive success and a huge testament into proving that the modern audience does still care about gameplay over story.
17:43 You lost me here, A game series (GTA 4 + 5) that simulates dayum near every type of: - Transportation Bicycles Motorbikes Cars Cabs Busses APCs' Tanks (GTA 5 Only) Helicopters Planes (GTA 5 Only) & Jets (GTA 5 Only) - Mechanics Customization (Clothes, Weapons, Bikes, Cars, Helicopters, Planes Building Interiors) Ragdoll physics Damage model (GTA 4 > GTA 5) Hand to Hand combat (GTA 4 >GTA 5) Melee combat Shooting Swimming Diving (GTA 5 Only) - Map Size Layout Real life Buildings and structures Variety (GTA 5 > GTA 4) - Radio Variety Separation (Into categories [By Radio Station] ) Radio host transitions ... And your complaint is... b - bb - but the controls??? I still 100% agree with the conclusion at the end, you shouldn't let other people's perception in any way shape, mold or redefine, your own, different people value different things, because we they process them in different ways, and it's ok👍 Although I'm still of the belief that certain things (if not everything) have a constant value, we as humans just aren't all able to detect each (Things) particular value as well as others... specially when we don't value them at all!
I'm a big Metal Gear Solid fan and while I respect your stance on the games, I disagree that the gameplay is "bad" in any of them. The games have a set design on how the controls work. Things like pressure sensitivity and press-and-hold functions are taken into account with the controls. Are they bad? No, but they are very nuanced. They work from a design perspective but the design is not for everyone. I understand that about the Metal Gear series and so I feel the same about them that you do about the TMNT comic that you got made fun of. I get that MGS4 is a just one big movie and almost no gameplay, but the gameplay that's there is still great, and the ways you can tackle a situation like stealth and especially boss fights. I think the problem with Metal Gear Solid games is that some people who play them treat them too much like movies and don't actually sit down to grasp the gameplay mechanics. When you actually grasp the gameplay mechanics you will find that they are actually quite deep, maybe even deeper than the story of the series (which I do admit is often really bonkers but still fun). I actually used to be a Kojima fan way back but now that I'm older I just see him as another game director who had a certain vision for his games. He definitely has a socio-political agenda behind his games' stories but many of them (like MGS2 especially) do have profound meanings and correlations to real life and offer a glimpse into what our world has become before it even happened. And the way those stories were told could only be done through an interactive medium such as video games. Even if there is a divide between the story cutscenes and gameplay segments of MGS, some of the games manage to strike a good balance between the two (MGS3 is the best example of this, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the remake goes). I do appreciate your hot takes on games being overrated and having the story sometimes get in the way of the experience, but if we can focus on the actual gameplay mechanics of the game then we can truly judge how shallow or complex they. You did do just that with other games like Uncharted and The Last of Us, but I feel your analysis of Metal Gear Solid is not as comprehensive as it should be if you wanted to get your point across. Either way, thanks for this video and thanks for reading my comment if you did. Happy gaming!
I agree and this is also my biggest gaming pet peeve in the last decade . There needs to be a clear distinction between gameplay and cutscene because if there isn't not only do I find the game boring but it's also impossible for me to replay . The Metal Gear Solid games are a perfect example of that . Sure they are story and cutscene heavy but if I want to replay them I can skip past everything and just focus on the gameplay
Every cutscene should always immediately be skippable , but you shouldn't have to want to do that anyway , there should be very few spaced out cutscenes so that you appreciate the unique contrast of them and added world immersion when they finally do arrive , and they have to actually be artistically distinct looking cutscenes with less words and more cool art or CG. I miss when cutscenes didn't look exactly like the in-game graphics due to limitation , they looked strikingly different and that's part of the unique contrast I was talking about within oldschool game design , like most PS1 games had In the 90s where It was a treat to sit back after hard work/progress and watch them , cutscenes were handled so differently from game to game back then , where as today most cutscenes and graphical engines look like the same formulaic copy-paste style and they're too frequent and long , but those oldschool PS1 era cutscenes didn't overstay their welcome because most of those games were forced to win you over on pure gameplay and letting the landscape and atmosphere and every asset tell It's own cryptic story. Modern games overdo It being too talky and focused on realistic melodrama , It makes them come off cheesy and annoying really fast. imo oldschool 5th and 6th gen games handled narrative better too , they were less imposing on your imagination with little to no voice acting , Miyazaki's Soulslike games are one of the only few modern games that still balance minimal voice acting just right and allow the environment and your natural Interactivity/curiosity to give you just enough unforced organic story lore.
@@fawkkyutuu8851 Perfectly said! I never really thought about it this way but you are absolutely right! Going from gameplay to cutscene in games like Final Fantasy 8 back in the day was so freaking cool and that novelty has been completely lost nowadays I also agree on Souls games . Despite the bosses not saying a word a lot more people will remember them over some melodramatic character that won't ever shut up from modern games Lastly on your final point this is why I believe the development team that is making the Silent Hill 2 Remake will butcher it Sorry for not replying sooner but youtube notifications are messed up
You have some good points, but you miss the mark on A, games are not solely fun experiences, it's an active way to consume media so creators can use that to convey emotions in whichever way they want, because you know, they will find their audience. So, a game doesn't need to be fun to play to be good, Silent Hill 2 isn't fun, but it is a masterpiece that works specially because you are playing it and not watching it, that's what I think a lot of old school gamers don't get, bad gameplay or lack of gameplay doesn't equal a bad game, a videogame can be used to tell a story or something else than satisfying gameplay. Like your Rockstar example, most of their games feel dated regarding gameplay, but most people play them because of their organic open worlds that react to your actions, that's what they are looking for, it's weird to put all videogames inside that box "oh, it have great atmosphere, narrative, good ideas and interesting mechanics, but it could play a lot better, so it's shit". And finally B, videogames are in a similar state to cinema, so, all your AAA examples can be viewed as a new Marvel or Fast and the Furious movie, they are trying to make a lot of money and appeal to a broad audience, and this type of stuff is trending right now, so they do it, but if you really want to play games that primarly focus on gameplay, and try to make new and exciting experiences just play some indie games, story is not ruining videogames, it's just more niche, we have devs making the type of games you like to play, you just have to look for it somewhere else
I’ll say it the opposite way. If a game wants to be popular it needs to be somewhat simple. When things get complicated the community turns into a bunch of mad man lost in their minds. I don’t think games like Fromsoft or the Fnaf games are super deep and impossible to follow… but the moment you peak at the community and you only see terminal internet people sucking each other off. Like how people refuse to acknowledge the Name change on Phase 2 and are still debating and will forever debate the description of the Scarlet Flower. Or the Fnaf people trying to say their story is deep when every time a new game comes out the entire story gets more confusing cause they don’t care about the continuity. So the reason the popular games are popular like Red Dead 2, Witcher 3 and Uncharted are popular is because they are sincere. Sure they act like having a random character insinuating depth makes some fans go crazy, but on the major story things are crystal clear. And because of this I reached acceptance. I love DMC, I love that it’s a “gameplay game”… yet I love the story, or at least when Vergil is involved cause the sibling rivalry is when the story and gameplay are at their peak. He was the best boss in DMC 1, 3 and 5. And their scenes is when the protagonist is most emotionally vulnerable. People can scream about their depth of trauma explaining their actions… but in truth the fact it’s the archetype of Siblings fighting is enough to be happy about the story when playing.
A lucid and thoughtful take, but I disagree. I don’t think video games should be accepting this trend. And I do see a tide shifting back, because video game writing is still way too vapid and most people are realising how often the depth doesn’t match up to the posturing.
I'm planning to make a video about this subject that I'm about to comment here, but I just wanted to share it here. Games are absuing their powers. No other medium can do what games can do: -Be intractable -Have music -Tell a story and have characters So what games _nowadays_ are doing is abusing the fact that they can do a story in their game. Notice how games used to be made FOR gamers back in the day? Every game had mechanics and depth at the forefront. Now? Games are made with _gamers in mind._ Now, you're no longer platforming and jumping manually, the game does it for you. Just press the "action" button. Platforming? Just hold the stick towards where you wanna go. Nowadays, only ASPECTS of games are awesome. The game as a whole, as a complete package is no longer favoring replayability. Game has to be open world with a lot of menus to go through and manage, and it has to be over 30 hours long instead of a compact 8-10 hour campaign that turns into a 4-5 hour experience when you've mastered the thing. And what do people do? Casuals (casuals. A word used as a literal insult back in the day. I'm not even that old and it used to be an insult) not going for mastery LOVE it. They LOVE finishing this 400 hour long game and instantly moving to the next game. God of War Ragnarok's combat is a literal dream. But it's constantly gatekept behind a game design that goes against replayability; -Walky talkies -Climby talkies -Boaty talkies -Standy talkies -Unskippable cutscenes at launch (!) So now? We have Valhalla. Haven't touched a second of Ragnarok ever since Valhalla dropped. Why? Cuz it has what I love about Ragnarok. The combat. The gameplay. Games are abusing the fact that they can have an interactive narrative. Case closed.
I really agree that games trying to replicate movies will just hold back creativity in gaming. You can have so many creative ways to tell a story in a game, like how Dark Souls has a non-intrusive but extremely deep narrative, or how some fighting games can even tell a character's story through movesets, personalities, and even character themes (one of my favorite examples being Leo Whitefang from Guilty Gear). There's a great video from Yahtzee Croshaw (Zero Punctiation) where he talks about immersive narratives. But in all respect, I could not disagree more on your MGS takes. They're not perfect games by any means, since sometimes Kojima gets waayy up his own ass, but saying that the gameplay is terrible because of a couple of bosses feels disingenuous to the rest of the gameplay. The core gameplay itself is not the deepest thing ever but its still relatively challenging and gives enough room for creativity compared to a game like Red Dead 2. Also, there are plenty of great bosses that completely make up for the weak ones for me, like Psycho Mantis, Raven, The End, The Boss, and Decoy Octopus. I can shake on the dub being pretty silly and sloppy, but I think the stories work much better in the context of a game for MGS than in other games. Firstly, the stories work so effectively because the game acknowledges it is just that: a game. MGS2 breaks the fuck out of the 4th wall to comment on its theme and to catch your attention and MGS3 has a literal boss that highlights the actions you willingly took in game to make commentary (and not in the way that TLOU2 did). Secondly, I think its fine to criticize a game because the story sucks, but if you really just don't like cutscenes or story, like in general and you only want gameplay, then you can skip them just fine and still come out with a complete game. There are only a handful of gameplay segments in the entire series (excluding 5 who did it way too much) where the game forcibly stops you or limits your control. I think I really came to appreciate Snake Eater on my second playthrough, where after getting a hang of the game and story and skipping most cutscenes, I ended up loving the gameplay a lot. But yeah, people online glaze Kojima way too hard so I can see why. I have the exact same experience you had with MGS4 towards a different game in a popular JRPG series that is hyped beyond belief to me
@@indedgames4359 the original Persona 3 FES, although from what I’ve played, the remake seems to fix a lot of the issues I had, so at least there’s that
Gamers trying to berate someone’s attention span is painful irony. This isn’t Ulysses bro, anyone who is an avid gamer has dogshit attention span. You’re all lacking in that department… don’t throw stones from glass houses lol.
I so agree with you dude, these Long Story Driven Games lack replayability and I hate how they constantly take away Control or use Spectacle instead of engaging gameplay.
you guys dont really have to play that sorta game tho? if you are looking for very good gameplay there is HUGE market for you guys with multiplayer games and tons of more gameplay focused games catering to your needs
Extra Credits does a piece on Roger Ebert saying video games aren't art. He relates a story about the guy that created Missile Command. The game play itself tells a story: one of nuclear holocaust and you can't win. You can only hold out as long as possible. Gave the guy that made the game nightmares just thinking about it. ITMT: Uncharted 2 is on my top 10 games of all time. But now I think I understand why GTA isn't working for me. And I've been at this a while too. My 1st home console was an all in one game of Pong. Had 4 handles so you could have 4 paddles on screen to play doubles and sim hockey. Followed by a Commodore 64 with both tape deck and floppy disc drive which held a max of about 166 kilobytes.
Me personally, I didn't find the gameplay all that great. There's lots of running around in empty space and the combat feels pretty bad for a character action game, mostly because of it's lack of combo variety and interesting mechanics. Shmup parts are also underwhelming and feel very unnecessary. Yoko Taro's games are generally known for their plot and interesting themes, not so much for their gameplay.
@@MelodyGrooveJunction What does liking Nintendo have to do with not being a big fan of Nier Automata's gameplay? A more likely reason would be that I've been spoiled by other combat focused action games with a more captivating gameplay (Devil May Cry, Fromsoft games, Bayonetta, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma, Nioh etc.). Just so you know, I do like Nier Automata. In fact, I like most titles directed by by Yoko Taro, even the Drakengard games, which most people would agree are pretty mediocre if not bad. Gameplay is not everything to me.
The point you made at like 5min about the 3rd person perspective being too close is one ive had for years. Darksiders is one my favorite examples of 3rd person done so so right. I feel like i can see the world around me. That view with the character taking up 35% of my screen hinders my gameplay because you essentially just cut off one of my peripherals.
Games aren’t that deep for you. That doesn’t mean that should be the case for everyone; back in the day when movies were relatively new there were people like you complaining that “movies aren’t that deep,” and they would even say if you want a good story why not just read a book. I’m sorry man, but not everyone has the same prerogative as you and the people that agree with you, so even if you think these games are the biggest waste of time, that doesn’t matter because people aren’t just gonna cater to your tastes. There are a million and one games with very little focus on story and you could play all those games for the rest of your life instead of bitching about how other people enjoy things.
I think the Souls-franchise is a good example of how to incorporate good story into your game without it getting in the way of the gameplay. All of them have very deep and fantastic lore, that explains the narrative context for your actions as well as the very few cutscenes in each game. However, engaging in the lore and story is completely optional. And what i like even more, is how the super fun gameplay and the choices of my character is woven together with the lore. Also, they have very effective environmental storytelling instead of long cutscenes with boring expository dialogue. I do like the new GOW games tho. The story is fucking awesome, but i think you make a fair point about it getting in the way of the actual gameplay. It doesn't really bother me, but i can see how some people would be annoyed by it. Combat-wise however, i think it deserves more credit IMO. It feels weighty and powerful, there is enough variety and depth to get a little fancy with your moves, yet the tools at your disposal aren't overwhelming and confusing. You have 3 different weapons (in Ragnarok) to choose from, each with a unique skilltree and set of (badass) abilities. The traversal sucks tho, i agree. But hey, at least you get to listen to Kratos' and Atreus' (very) well-written banter while you do the boring traversal. Great video, i saw the thumbnail and went in with a lot of skepsis. I disagree with a lot of it, but you still make a very fair arguments for your points that even someone who disagrees with can relate to (unlike a lot of people in the internet). Sorry for the long comment, just wanted to share my thoughts
@@thekittenthatwantschicken8018that's not entirely true. There's an ongoing story in these games and the npcs tell you what's going on they just don't go into extreme detail about the events. Plus there's also sekiro which is also a souls game and it's a lot more direct.
Man! This video and tlou one are masterpieces and this comes from a big mgs fan! Your a breath of fresh air brother! Tomorrow I'm gonna watch the shehulk one just so i can hear your take! Keep up the vids if possible!
Lmao what was this video. It started off about his opinion on overrated games then went on a rant about the inner workings of his mind. Highly entertaining but I really don't want to end up like this guy.
Its not like movies didnt start out with no dialogue, let stuff evolve and have better storytelling. But I definitely agree with them interrupting gameplay with unnecessary unfun sections that dont relate to normal gameplay. Also your stance on the new god of wars actually makes sm sense, I remember getting to feel the final button press finishing the bosses in the old games now it’s automated 😢
Months after this clip, indy games with near zero stories are having a golden moment and game companies are having massive layoffs. I guess the math ain't mathing with these movie style games afterall 😅
Counterpoint for 29:57 - I do think U4 has better GAMEPLAY than U2, even if I agree with you that yes, its story mode is far worse than U2’s (bad pacing, too much semi-interactive BS). Playing both games’ multiplayer modes (that focus purely on gameplay), it’s really hard to deny just how much the controls and mechanics have evolved in U4: the grappling hook, 60 frames, etc make U4 have superior GAMEPLAY.
This is why Left 4 dead 1&2, dishonored 1&2, Original God of War series, and Batman Arkham series are the best of the best of games to have ever released: insane replay value, immersive gameplay, and simple but engaging mechanics.
What FPS games have you tried? EDIT: I just got done finishing the video. When you were talking about Open World games and stuff, I thought about the open world games I enjoyed, and realized that the ones that I finished or played the most, were ones that had fun gameplay but not a good story (Except Spider-Man, that has a decent one). I know you said you don’t like open world games, but I still would like to recommend Spider-Man: Miles Morales. The games only 7 and a half hours long, plus the combat and webswing is solid As for FPS games, maybe give TITANFALL 2 a try. I know a lot of people mostly talk about it’s multiplayer, but the campaign is a short but sweet 6 hours where you ride a Titan, wall run, and be an overpowed badass.
Kojima is huge into film, cutscenes are vital to games. I do get the console wars being stupid, they are, but gaming is still an art form as film and music, and online gaming was the best and worst and best thing that ever happened
caring about gameplay over story is fine. acting like gameplay is always the most important thing about a game is wrong. it might be for a game you like, but not every type of game should have gameplay prioritised. saying story SHOULD be the fourth priority under GRAPHICS is actually a wild opinion though. i hate movies, i hate books, i love games. i love almost exclusively story based or atmosphere type games like silent hill 2-3 or bioshock or yume nikki. i think not liking that stuff is fine, but you are framing these arguments like you’re the arbiter of video game knowledge where you just… aren’t. i’m not either but i’m not going to say that art design and story need to be top priorities for every game, that’s just not true. you liked a franchise, it changed, you don’t like it anymore. those old games are still there. the game devs should be able to change directions, often times people find game franchises that stay the same for 15 games stale and that’s what happened with assassins creed. people were getting bored with it. there needs to be room for experimentation with new entries and possible improvements. you’re acting like people who like story driven games with mid gameplay are wrong (you said those types of games shouldn’t be made) and that they’re ruining gaming. the customers are not the companies. yes sales influence new games but you said people can like those games. but if they buy them it’s bad cuz then they get made and that’s ruining the franchise for you. it’s such an odd way to frame how you’re talking about it. calling the witcher franchise bullshit does kinda show your hand a bit. it’s not bullshit or the wrong way to make games cuz you don’t like it. hideo kojima does suck though lol
The guy just has strong opinions, ! guess. I'm actually on the same boat as him in the case where I will always enjoy a gameplay-focused game more than any story-driven ones but I do understand why these games are favoured in this current era, they have a bigger demographic and profit margins. There's more people that want a streamlined, one playthrough type of games more than than there are people that want games like DMC where you would want to have multiple playthroughs to fully immerse yourself in those games' strong gameplay loop. I am a little envious tho. Back then those games were made by top AAA companies, but now you'd be hard pressed to find a Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta/DMC-style games that aren't just soulslikes or made by smaller developers that have to compromise on certain aspects of their game because they don't have the limitless amounts of resources that a big company like Rockstar does. I do find some merit in highlighting this complaint tho because imo there 100% is a bigger demographic in these games than the companies know.
18:50 AH HELL NO! 19:16 Man, he is trolling. You also have 2 boss battles that use sniper rifles, 2 that use stinger missiles, 1 using pistol vs revolver, 1 against a psychic, 1 against a vulcan gun (bigger gatling gun from a plane), 1 in a moving jeep with an attached M60. You have to fire a radio controlled missile down twisting hallways. 20:11 Man, this guy has some vendetta against Hideo Kojima. The story of MG1 is better than 70% of movies. He is either trolling or Metal Gear Solid stole his girlfriend.
You've articulated a lot of stuff that I've suspected for years but didn't quite have the ability to define. Extremely based takes, you've got my subscription 💯
At the end of the day there needs to be a balance between subjectivity and objectivity. Acting like one is better than the other leads to a bull sh** superiority complex.
I agree that a good story isn’t necessary for a great game. I’ll even concede that a lot of stories get in the way of the fun of the gameplay and overall experience. But please do not tell me that the story telling for tlou 1 was on par with mediocre film or series writing. Not even close lol.
TLOU 1 was mediocre in every sense, story, direction, gameplay, the lot. This is why it appealed to so many people (not real gamers), normies who like to think they are gamers. If you've ever read from the cannon of English literature, French literature, and the Golden Age of German literature, plus other countries masterpieces from around the world you would then know what qualifies as 'good' writing. TLOU 1's story is generic, pedestrian and a yawn. It's designed for the average IQ, the average person, and the average casual gamer, because that's where the dollars are, to be gathered from moronic dipsticks who don't know any better. Games like TLOU 1 are made to appeal to the lowest common denominator, otherwise they won't sell well, money is the name of the game, not quality. hehehehe Having said that, there is nothing wrong with brain dead games, just know that's what they are, brain dead games. A lot of the most popular games in the world are games that make people think they are cleverer than what they really are, games like; Destiny 2, Diablo 4, FFXIV, Starfield, Elden Ring + all Souls Games (I like them, but...), all Total War games, Baldur's Gate 3 (I like it), ad infinitum, ad nauseam. I love gameplay over story, because devs just cannot write good video game stories, not real video games anyway, there will be some walking sim that may have a reasonable story ya nah. hehehehe
Tlou 1 narrative was good, but was good for a game, not good on the point of view of narratology, art criticism, and analytic critics, it was good just because there isn't anything similar in the videogame medium. Just compare it with the classics of literature and cinema.
I beg to differ about one key argument. While i agree that pure ludic (gameplay-centric) games have a place and should not disappear or be eclipsed, there is also merit in exploring games as an interactive storytelling medium even if that means some compromises on the gameplay mechanics in the interest of cinematic moments. There aren't many analogies I can think of - it is essentially its own medium - but the closest thing I can come up with is choose-your-own-adventure books. IMO cutscene-heavy (even if light on the gameplay) games and gameplay-heavy (even if light on the story) games can have their own distinct audiences, one in for an interactive narratological experience, and another for the challenge and fun of innovative gameplay. And, of course, there could naturally be those that innovate and provide some amount of overlap.
Alternate title:”I don’t like cutscenes”
the real issue is the *end of the video.* The chick with the nice breast laughed at him for his comics, so this is payback. Hurt ppl hurt ppl
@@Ishbikes nonce
Alternative comment, I'm a Sony fanboy, so I only like and used to single player games with lots of cutscenes.
@@Ishbikes I do sympathize with the ninja turtles story
@@iaqhor im a xbox gamer and i dont have actuall good games to play so i lose time on Internet insulting the ones that actually do
Story doesn't save bad or little game play,
But Story elevates the gameplay.
Agreed.
This is nonsense bad gameplay can never make up a good story.
@@emptyblank099a vise versa too....
@@scarfaceReaper a good gameplay can still makeup for a bad story .its a videogame
@@jatinsinghyadav5941 that gow game no ones talk about is proof too and theres tone others but im not gonna waste my time
Cutscenes have their place in video games, but a good game knows how to feed you a story while keeping the controller in your hand.
yet god of war 2018 made my controller down for 20 minutes just to pick it up for an hours worth of walking and repeat
Agreed
@@tegamaglakelidze9613There's no 20 min cutcenes in that game lol
@@ericleal157 It's a walking simulator
Yeah. It was called QTE's
I liked your Ninja Turtles story. Don't even waste your time trying to "explain" your hobby to people who don't get it, it's pointless. Nothing makes you look like a bigger tool than trying to explain yourself to people who are clowning you. I had to learn that lesson the hard way myself.
True. It's a waste of time exclaiming yourself to the ignorant
@@sambeezy007 or to the uninterested
Right, I learned when I was 14, when you love something enough it's more beneficial to enjoy yourself than to worry about how much of a "nerd" you are perceived to be
But the people who "waste" their time to explain their hobby are the reasons why nerd culture are no longer being shunned like it used to and had become mainstream. I don't think it's as pointless as you make it out to be. Now, most people from the younger generations no longer bully or made fun of others for having interest in games or Ninja Turtles. If a kid laugh at their friends for reading Ninja Turtles, they will be the weird one while in the past, they're the norms. I saw it first hand, since my generation was in the middle of this transitioning process. I was made fun of during the first few years in highschool for liking games and anime but then suddenly it became normalise and now pretty much all my peers including me openly can share our hobby without being given the stink eye. Hell, my school and college now even officially added gaming as part of our extra co-curricular. If it weren't for my peers who "waste" their time time convincing the old people who didn't get it, we wouldn't have these shifts of perception and culture.
At the end of the day, there are still people who don't get it but are open minded enough to be willing to listen and be convinced.
Dishonored manages to tell great story and isn’t riddled with cutscenes. The replay value is high too, given that every action you make affects Dunwall, character behavior and the ending.
Dishonored 1 and 2 and Prey are my games of the past decade, wishing Arkane goes back to make great single player games...
Absolutely i am not paying huge amount of money for a game that has repeated gameplay,missions,bad level designs etc which i'm not even gonna replay dishonored is just like Bryan Cranston once said "You want people wanting more than being bored of the same content"
@@Albert-Freeman Key people that made these games special are no longer with Arkane, unfortunately.
Tango Gameworks on the other hand released a banger of an action game this year and I’m confident their next project will be another banger.
Only the first game was worth playing at all.
@@lIllIlllIlIllIlllIlIllIlllIl Dishonored 2 is also amazing and the DLC's are the peak
Not all games are intended to be action games.
MGS is a masterpiece of video game.
This guys opinion sucks, I always thought that people like him must not have had a good childhood, and nobody likes them.
Games like the last of us are powerful for people with a loving family and if you don't care for them than you must have never felt anything like that. That's what I think.
u cant be judgemental like him everyone has their own preference its true that the replay value is close to non existent because i know everything that's gonna happen when it's gonna happen but the story and the combat is great each game are different and can't be appreciated by everyone@@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et
The critique of the acting isn't right either. Critiquing MGS based on its English dub ignores both Kojima's actual (Japanese) production for the show as well as how outsourced the dub was
@@MiguelRodriguez-lp9etAll this "powerful" and "loving family" bullshit does not belong in gaming.
..... The whole point of this video just went right over your head .... Because of people like you - gameplay has now become irrelevant in video games. Everybody is now just trying to copy Naughty Dog and dumpster fire games like God of War Ragnarok.
Now we're screwed - God of War Ragnarok sold 12 million as a console exclusive.
So now the publishers will act accordingly - fire 75% of anyone who has anything to do with actual game design and bring in more Hollywood misfits to make their crappy interactive movies.
I can't wait for GTA 6... What a sad pathetic state of affairs.
I mean the games are pretty fun and MGS5 open-ended missions are my favourite till date , but some-people will have problem if they have to watch an hour worth of cutscenes and codex calls before even starting the game , like in MGS2 after the tank the game restarts and throws in like an hour of codex calls restarting the tutorial which weakens the experience . I don't think story based games are for everyone and implementing that aspect into every AAA game tarnishes the modern average gameplay session , plus the games now aren't half as polished as any Metal gear game(gameplay wise) .
Halo 1-3, Gears of War 1-3 are great examples of balance between cutscenes and gameplay
Ngl GTA and Red dead are not as bad as you say. you take a lot of random clips and basically make the games seem like they play like that majority of the time. While I will say majority of the gameplay is pretty basic. It does not make it absolutely terrible. According to your logic basically every time I drive in GTA it has to be like Forza and every time I fight in GTA it has to be like Sifu or else its complete trash. That is not the main focus. the main focus is to immerse you in it's open world.
The people handing out 10s to those games are a ridiculous extreme. But the guy who made this video is going to another level of extreme in the other direction. It's hard to take him seriously when he says some of these games are terrible.
Even though the last of us 1 for example is probably overrated to say it's a 5 out of 10 is a bit much.
its not basic, its garbage, and also immersive and BOTH good gameplay games exist
when you are rockstar, sitting on billions money from GTA online and you prefer to spend time to adds realistic pattern to NPC than fix the bounty system and improve the level design of your game, you deserve become hated from the fanbase who enjoyed the fun of your older games
@@lolilol3396Rockstar is not hated. There are rabid people on the internet like you that act as if your opinion is fact. But GTA6 will sell like crazy because millions of real life people like it
@@jacksonjacob7791People that use words like "overrated" dont respect other people's opinion. A review is an opinion. Nevermind internet critics. In real life you dont need a game has high level as The Last of Us for casual gamers to give it 10/10.
In real life people, even coworkers are overly hyped to play the newest Call of Duty game. Reviewers are generally stricter than the average typical gamer.
Most regular people playing games like God of War or even Fortnite say they love it woth their all. Because having FUN is what matters. People like this UA-camr thats so worked up on other people liking games he doesnt likely has plenty of personal issues
@@jacksonjacob7791User scores for God of War is the same as its reviews. People are going to like what they want
Im so glad someones talking about how so many games are "story-driven" but end up being 50% cutscenes or just walking listening to people talk, its bugged me so much when they started doing that
what's wrong with that if its enjoyable?
@@Keolas_multiverse It's not enjoyable.
@@Jobocan. a thank you for your input have a great day
@@Jobocan.It's not up to you to decide.
@@Jobocan. It might not be enjoyable to you but it is for many people. I don't mind my games being half movie half gameplay, I think that's perfecly fine. There are plenty of games where it's 100% gameplay already, we need variety in gaming.
Clint: "Rockstar has never made a game with good controls, not one."
Max Payne 3 and Bully: "Allow us to introduce ourselves."
I played max Payne 3 last night and I have the shadows rushed me trophy
Table tennis
Man's I want a bully 2 rockstar fucked us on that one. I want to make my own bully like game with some Xbox friends I play with. And see if they want onboard
honestly a think a really important factor in the decline of gameplay in favor of story, is that AAA companies are trying to fill a niche that is already filled; instead of taking advantage of gameplay and how it can contribute to a more engaging story, they're trying to make games more mainstream by making them cinematic and focused purely on the story. And since the companies doing this are often really popular and hold a certain amount of prestige, even if the game is mediocre at best, many people will buy the game, thus encouraging this. It's also the reason why indie games have gained so much attention and respect as of recently, because to stand out they have to do everything better, which is how we end up with great stories like Undertale, or great classic-style shooters like ULTRAKILL.
Which is insane when you think about it since Gaming is most certainly mainstream and has surpassed Cinema in relevance and income. These people are stuck 30 years ago.
But what about games like Journey, Abzu, What Remain of Edith Fintch and so on.
There is a market for games that are light on gameplay but deep on story. Just like The Last of Us.
I really don’t understand why ya’ll have a issue with that
@@Indigo_1001 I enjoy those games! The thing is like, the critique towards games like that is that often they might or might not take advantage of gaming as a medium. TLOU notably got adapted into a TV show, which makes you wonder whether it would've done just as well if they released it as a show from the beginning. Abzu or Edith Finch take advantage of their gameplay, and sort of merge the story and gameplay. In contrast, the story of TLOU could well exist independently.
Like, games absolutely can have cutscenes and they're allowed to tell stories in different ways, but (at least in my opinion) the essence of videogames lies in the "playing" part, and if your videogame is essentially story beats with gameplay in between, wouldn't it be easier to tell that story in a better-adapted medium?
As I'm writing this I'm realizing that part of the conflict in this whole debate is accessibility, and reaching different audiences. The story games I enjoy, such as Hades, Undertale, Outer Wilds, Soma, Celeste, Dead Cells.... they always link their gameplay to their story. And maybe people just, don't enjoy that? And prefer games with simpler gameplay where the story takes precedence. Or maybe it's a topic of perception - the videogames i mentioned are very *videogamey*, while modern AAA games like TLOU are more "realistic" and might seem less niche or unappealing for a wider audience.
Idunno, maybe I can't speak much because I have yet to play many games, but ig that's the whole *thing* abt cinematics and cutscenes and whatnot. Would love to hear your opinion further, I find this topic rlly interesting
This video actually brings me back to an interesting paper I wrote about Gaming Media back in my first year of college. I remember citing and reading an article from Creative Director, Yoko Taro (director of NieR Automata/Replicant) and how he stated that video games are losing their relevancy by going more for interactive film styles and forgetting to be “games”. That’s why he, as a creative director, has always strived to making a narrative and story that’s deep and compelling but doesn’t take away from the action and set pieces that are presented. While “cinematic” video games aren’t exactly bad (as in I still enjoy GOW and TLOU), I think there needs to be a balance between the two so the media as a whole does not forget what makes a video game… a VIDEO GAME
There needs no balance. You purchase a game you like, you avoid games you don't like. Games are a form of art, much like music. Quality depends on the personal perspective of the consumer
Lets not forget, ART quality depends on the individual person's enjoyment. Games as art are like that. I am not a TLOU fan but I know plenty of men and women (not on the internet) madly inlove with TLOU to the point of obsession.
One of my coworkers is madly inlove with God of War and considers it perfect. I wont tell him he is wrong. Thats how he perceives that art piece. You dont have to share that opinion .
Bruuh 23:11
@@seriesx9508 Yea fuck improving the art form
@@dandre3K "You either buy this mediocre piece of shit and like it, or you settle for nothing." Guy sounds just like a company.
I think it’s pretty subjective if one likes games with a lot of cutscenes or not. If anything, why even have cutscenes to begin with when everything could happen during gameplay? Why even have have a story? Player engagement. Even the tiniest input from the player can be a form of gameplay. Choose your own adventure games are the pinnacle of stuff like that. Such games are literally: “click on an option” -> *something happens* and then repeat and a lot of people still love those.
congrats on having thoughts, no matter how irrelevant..
@@kilabanana9315 Because that is still better than having put no thought into a comment at all
I think a counterpoint to this is... can you think of any choose your adventure game that is considered a great game? I can't. The point being that the minimal player interaction counts *heavily* against the genre.
As far as I know, the entire genre is mostly associated with children, again speaking to the point that it is not gameplay anyone considers good.
@@MA-go7ee Determining if something is good by looking if its popular is an incredibly inefficent way to judge quality. Or you would have to concede that Cinematic Games are masterpieces. Still those who played Disco Elysium and Scarlet Hollow, both Choose your own adventure games, have overly positive reviews, which at least shows that there is value in that genre.
Gameplay musnt be just about clicking buttons at every chance. Paying attention to the story and clues, so you can carefully consider your choices can be incredibly engaging. And if your choices shape the story, it is incredibly cathartic.
@@kilabanana9315 Funny how your comment manages to be more irrelevant than the person's comment you're replying to.
The main problem IMO with these movie-like games is that, if I'm gonna spend $60-$70 in a videogame, I don't want the meat of the experience to be something I can easily just watch on UA-cam. The story should serve the gameplay, not the other way around, because games are supposed to be by nature an interactive experience.
Mass Effect is a perfect example of how story driven games should actually be, letting you make choices on every turn which have consequences, and giving you freedom to decide whether you want to take the honorable path or the ends justify the means one in pretty much every situation you encounter.
@@Lenny01 What I'm clearly implying is that if the interactive experience is lackluster, then the game's worth is not really $60-$70, few people would really pay that for a movie. And saying shit like "oh don't watch / buy / play it then" is always a cheap way of trying to deflect criticism towards something, as a consumer you are entitled to criticism especially since this has affected the quality of many games in the industry, and there are some people like me that do not want this to become the gold standard over actual games with good gameplay.
Cyberpunk is also a good example where the gameplay is good but story excels
the first 3 anyway andromeda was a huge step down
@@subbie5498of course, the OG trilogy is the one worth playing
Facts man movies simulators are trash
I disagree about the story part. A game is highly enhanced by a good plot, playing as a warrior and destroying monsters with a fleshed out story and motivation behind them feels different than slashing no name thugs even if the gameplay is identical. A good story immerses you in the world, every bullet, every swing of your sword, every explosion feels more impactful. It's not the focus on telling good stories that brings down games, it's that the people who make said games often time forget the gameplay part. A lot of talentless game developers who wish they'd be making movies instead of games give story driven games a bad reputation.
Dude, you clearly missed the point, the most important part of a game is the gameplay, story can be trash and you can still enjoy a game when there is good gameplay, but a game with trash gameplay and good or great story is no longer a game, it would be more of a movie or tv show.
@@zxcytdfxy256i agree, main focus is gameplay. A good story is a bonus (a really effective one if done well) but should not be top priority.
@@zxcytdfxy256
I think YOU missed the point, the most important part of a game is being engaged and having fun. How the game achieves that is irrelevant.
People like to separate story, gameplay, visuals, etc. In reality a game is the sum of its parts. The story enhances the fun factor for people the same way sound design and visuals do. If you strip away the story you strip away a layer of meaning, you remove a reason for people to care. Half Life 2 is considered one of the greatest FPS games of all time, when people talk about it they always bring up the story and the journey. Remove the worldbuilding context and the story and all you're left with is a game in which you mostly shoot generic guys in gas masks.
All of the impact you feel when you shoot down a combine soldier disappears with the removal of the story, the story literally adds to the fun factor. People think that you can just boil down everything to the base mechanics as if that's the only thing that matters. Remove the context (story), remove the visual flare (character animations, recoil, textures, explosion particle effects), remove the sounds and blood effects, etc. What you have is pure gameplay mechanics, but it's no longer fun.
If your opinion on story in games was true, games would evolve to be less and less story driven, yet it's the opposite. Story sells. Even Doom became more story and lore driven.
If you want a gameplay driven game, you can play sudoku. No fancy graphics, no storyline or feedback enhancing sound effects. Just pure gameplay. Most people don't want that though.
Gameplay will forever be King honestly. I can appreciate good stories but I don’t give a fuck if the gameplay isn’t good. TLOU and RDR2 get away with mid gameplay because their stories are so well done, but other games like GOW 2018 or Horizon have boring gameplay and mid stories.
@@snark567 while i do agree story enhances a game it should not do it to the point where it detriments gameplay. All of those unskippable cutscenes and parts of the game where you essentially just hold the analog stick forwards will forever be a plight to video games. If you want to have a part in a game where the characters converse put it in a skippable cutscene so that it’s replay value wont be diminished. Gow ragnarok has excellent gameplay but the first few hours has a fuck ton of parts where it is unskippable cutscenes or sequences where you do nothing but hold the forward button while also having a pretty good story
"without adding anything of note to the gameplay"
I'm seriously starting to doubt you even played any of the MGS sequels, lmfao.
His take on mgs really makes you feel like he didn't play it and just hates it for no reason
He is saying it is bad because boss fights are bad which is hilarious since they are stealth games they aren't dark souls or any other fighting game they aren't games that focus on boss fights thay focus on "STEALTH"
@@hussienmohamed7420 that's a very poor argument. If the boss fights are going to be ass just make them cutscenes. Not being in a particular genre doesn't give you license to halfass parts of your game.
That being said I don't think MGS has egregiously bad boss fight, at least none I can recall right now. A few of them even do make sense in the context of an action stealth game which disproves your point even more. Kojima and Co clearly could design good bosses so some not landing is not good.
@@hussienmohamed7420the real issue is the end of the video. The chick with the nice breast laughed at him, so this is is payback. Hurt ppl hurt ppl
He literally picks up few things ifhe doesn't like and calls the whole thing bad. I was so done with his take on TW3 story. He just said it's boring and moved on without even objectively mentioning anything. He sounds like a COD player who doesnt has the patience to digest complex stories and a bit stretched cutscenes. Although it's a free country to share opinions, his opinions sucks ass tbh.
@@road_free did you listen to the whole thing? Anyways, the real reason is *trauma.* He told you why.. his crush laughed at him, & now he does the same
The Witcher 3's influence over game development has more to do with game developers than gamers clamoring for more The Witcher 3.
It's the same effect that Dark Souls and Borderlands had on the industry. Every game suddenly became a souls-like or a looter-shooter.
Im with you and Sony is failing because of this trend: expensive graphics, motion capture, actors and renowned musicians and you have this wannabe movies costing 200 million dollars, and the returns are very little.
You are 100% wrong on Sony failing because of this. 100% of the time if a game is more story driven or has lengthy cutscenes, gamers come out of the woodwork calling it a walking simulator, or some other 10 dollar phrase they heard on the internet. The arcade action you crave, or games that duve right into it, they still exist.
I feel like all cutscenes or cutscene esc sequences should be skipable so that people who don’t care about the story can skip it.
What you're really saying is games can have a great story, they just shouldn't be TOLD like a movie, and I agree completely. Games have their own mechanics of telling a good story that transcends just traditional linear media. I have no idea why AAA developers insist of following this tired visual mechanics of a cutscene.
You won't get through to these modern gamers, most of them want movies over gameplay. Many of them don't really understand the concept you talk about or know any better, and will reduce your arguments to 'complaining' because they also don't understand standards.
i agreed with a lot of his points but i’ll be damned if i didn’t miss an era where people didn’t complain about games so damn much
I love story telling linear games...
I mean you can only go so far with game mechanics for gameplay and cannon. I also don’t mind cinematic scenes between gameplay or really had a problem with it. It’s a story after all. Seeing some animation, composition is cool.
Because they want least effort and risk + widest audience. They do an opposite of art.
This video sounds like "this games are overrated because i dont like them, therefore their bad"
Cant ever imagined idiots like this exists lol , this is just pure crying , "games should be focus on gameplay because this i want to"
You just seem like a butthurt gow fanboy who didn't watch the video. He lists his reasons and quite a couple of them a pretty reasonable.
It literally does 🤣
No the game is bad because it has a cringe gameplay and it's focused just on the graphics and story
Well if you want a game just for it's graphics and story go watch a movie instead
@@ipad3kelarens574 there aint nothing wrong games being focused on story, Just look at rdr 2 that sold 55 million , the bestest game ever
Honest to God this is a very fair critique of the current industry and majority of people who disliked it are the ones the industry is catering to. Games like GOW 2018 and Uncharted 4 happen when developers stop making games for the fans and start making them for a new audience that didnt care about the previous installments in a franchise, same shit happened to Assassin's Creed in the latest ones are you EVEN an assassin anymore?
Im gonna go on a roll here and say this is very specifically unique for WESTERN videogames. The Mario games for example will NEVER stop being platformers and will never make such a drastic change like GOW 2018 did where they butcher the combat for a mediocre story that might as well have been a movie. Videogames should stop trying to prove themselves to people that AREN'T even fans.
Feels like most western game directors are failed movie directors. Example: Neil Druckmann
Man it's so tough, I feel like on so many points you hit the nail on the head but there are so many things I personally deem as non-issues. Great video man, got me using my brain for once.
I have always had a list of video games that are favorite. They always change throughout the years, but one game that has never changed, is my number one spot. A game so perfect, I could talk for literal HOURS on how good it is. Halo 3. A fantastic story, AMAZING soundtrack, greatest multiplayer, gameplay so fun it could make me cry, and memories I will never forget. If there was one word to describe this game, it's Believe. Perfect video game.
It's not my number one pick, but if it were voted as the best videogame of all time, I wouldn't disagree. Shit Halo 1, 2, and 3 all deserve a spot on the top of any list. The best part is they still play GREAT to this day. Halo 3 especially has aged so incredibly well
I don't know man, I found Halo 3's campaign pretty disappointing. It has a great level design and the last chapters are amazing, but I felt that for most of the game nothing really happened. I found quite evident that Halo 3's ending was supposed to be in Halo 2 and so they had to stretch all the story to make an entire new game.
@@danielsan9047 Yeah, the story is not best in the series, but it's still a great story. It puts an end the trilogy pretty well.
@@tenacious645 I have a very emotional connection to the game, which is pretty much I put it at such high regard. It gave me the best memories of my life, I gotta give it credit for it.
Halo 3s not my favorite shooter. But I agree, it’s amazing
your take is extreme , if story doesnt matter , than you can play multiplayer or coop online games , , if story doesnt matter , you are like playing side stuff in everygame ....i can agree with you when game studios limit your gameplay , like in the dark anthology games , but to say story doesnt matter is a weird take , for me once i finish the main story , the game is done , and a good story is what makes my games and holds my interest , if i just want to shoot or jump , ill play arcade or multiplayer games
RIGHT? This guy is a baby if he thinks story games arent better than shitty gameplay driven games
5:10 Yh, I have to disagree on the "Kratos had selfish, childish rage" point. I've seen this opinion a lot and it's almost as if no one remembers the old games' events. I'll concede that he went overboard when he begun to involve innocent bystanders in the matter (towards the end of the saga).
But after all the gods of olympus had done to him... they got what was coming to them.
Great vid btw
He did sell his soul to the gods, to save his worthless hide. After that, Ares owned him. That's what you get... temporary enlightenment. But you will rue the day, in the end.
Kratos deserved everything he got. Seriously one of the worst characters, in gaming history.
It's David Jaffe and Corey Balrog, what do you expect? Two of the biggest frauds in the industry.
Kratos is beyond awful. And by this point, is pretty much irredeemable. The sooner he gets his final comeuppance, the better.
@@lonestar6709 Yeah it's almost like Kratos is an archetypical Greek "Hero" who does a lot of fucked up shit and suffers for it.
Wait... it's almost like that was the point?
@@lonestar6709 Crazy that Kratos is a part of a horrible cycle and ends up also being a horrible person. Almost like GOW 3's ending implied this to be the case. And its the main reason Kratos lives how he is now. If you're going to hate a story, at least understand the themes and intentions.
@@lonestar6709That’s the point. He isn’t meant to be a good character. That’s why the third game ends with him ending his life.
The idea that he deserves forgiveness only comes from the new games.
In the classic games, the gods are awful and Kratos was awful and the best thing that could happen to mankind was the fact they all died and released hope upon the world.
@@combatbenyamin Except that the person who he was responding to said "Yh, I have to disagree on the "Kratos had selfish, childish rage" point. " He was responding to that.
All that matters is the experience. If it needs a lot of cutscenes to tell a good story, fine. MSG4 was the most cutscene heavy game I ever played, and it was memorable and a great experience overall. MSG5 had much less cutscenes, was very sandbox-y, a very enjoyable game, lots of replay value, but not as memorable as MSG4, and specially MSG3 was.
Also games don't need to be "deep" to be good. I love Total War games, and it's all about managing resources and manouvering armies. Your towns are hit by plagues - historical plagues that wiped thousands if not millions of people IRL (like Black Death) and you just treat it as "need more sanitation buildings". That's whow "deep" it goes. And it's still fun, which is what matters most in a game.
IMHO what pisses me off most in new games is the lack of ability to do what you imagine you can. Like going to a mountain just to learn its out of bounds, or not being able to customize your appeareance/items/looks. The rest is what we always expect: a high chance someone will mess up the story somehow.
Just play games that focus on gameplay. Problem solved. Plenty of them around lmao
This video was a waste of my time
and if you like cutscenes heavy games just watch a movie, leave gaming for ppl that enjoy playing
@@RogerNbrLol FF16 is dope little kid
@@RogerNbr Jokes on you, I enjoy both.
@@RogerNbrstay mad
I can see this from both perspectives. I love a lot of different types of videogames that I get my hands on, and since I love stories due to my love for writing, I play a healthy amount of both types. Funnily enough I had the reverse of this conversation a few months ago, and I think it's sort of relevant. I had a friend say that he expected more from the story in the Mario movie. My whole thing was that they had to connect the little bit of story that Mario games provided and make something that stretched to an hour, so in reality, going to watch that movie for a story was a lost cause. I liked the Mario movie because it was just fun. It was simple, but fun like a Mario game, and I liked that. I do think in cases like God of War and Uncharted it's fair to be disappointed with what they turned into, since those games were different from what they started as. My only thing is that I feel that if a game started as something story based like Metal Gear and Last of Us for example, I feel like the story is its own form of enjoyment that deserves its place or chance alongside games where the gameplay is the prime reason to enjoy it. We could have had a Last of Us show originally, but if you put it in competition with Walking Dead it would have likely been buried. And though Metal Gear was clunky, Kojima used the console to bring characters to life and fuck with the player too. I don't really care whether the story, the gameplay or both take the reigns when a videogame comes out (though I prefer both being good). I just want it to be fun. If you take away the story though, it ends up being like COD or some platformers where it ends up being the same because it's just gameplay. Take away the gameplay and you end up with The Order 1886 and visual novels where the dialogue is what keeps you awake.
also, it's not as binary as he puts it in the video. meaning it's not just about either the gameplay or the story. there's a lot of other aspects to games than just those two. specifically in the case of rockstar games, he says people play those for the story, which is just simply not true. sure, the stories in those games are great, but you play rockstar games to explore the amazingly crafted open worlds they have. then there's the aspect of "choice" you get in rpgs, there's the amazing art styles and visuals in games, there's sound design, there's immersion etc etc. like bro it's not just as simple as gameplay or story.
and this is why portal 2 is on top
Even if I disagree with some of your opinions I appreciate how unapologetic and honest you are in holding them. Good video, really caused myself to think about videogames. Also, I enjoyed the little illustrations towards the end of the video. Very neat.
I think theres always been a yearn for "Experiences" over pure gaming. Basketball and Chess are "Games" in the traditional sense. No production values, music, acting, or scenes. There is an audience who loves games and theres an audience who loves stories, movies, tv, books etc. So therefore yes I don't think there is a problem with bringing the two mediums together bc clearly there is demand for them. Even back in the 80's there were movie tie in games for E.T and Star Wars. They were made bc they knew there were people who wanted to experience being inside the world from the movie. The problem is the over saturation of these types of experiences, and the lack of balance in the industry now, which I agree with.
Isn’t an “experience” just a game taken to a deeper level? Of it being a game just a step “more”?
I dont know what your talking about but sounds like your playing semantics. Some things lean way more into being experiences than games. The tell tale games are an example, very little gameplay but tons of story and set pieces. @@LakevusParadice
I like your style, and I am one of those people who love good stories in videogames, honestly your critizism is very good, you arw making me question how much I value a good story if I am honest, good job
a game can also have a good story, but the gameplay has to be as fun as well. I think the god of war series kinda proofs it, at least for me. While I do like the story of the whole series, at the end it's the classic ones I often return to, while the new one I played at best twice and so far I'm not even sure if I wanna give ragnarok a try if the gameplay is the same. heck, this color swapped mini bosses where already huge letdown.
This guy is making fallacious arguments. Just because a game has an amazing story, DOESNT mean its gameplay is bad. In fact, sony is making one of the best gameplays of 3rd person shooter and melee combat of the entire industry with Lou 2 and Gow Ragnarok respectively. They are literally going above and beyond not just providing incredible gameplay but also movie levels of character development and story. I hope they continue on this path. I' glad this guy is in the minority otherwise we'd all be playing games like Tetris just because it has 'good gameplay'. Trash criticisms I say.
For me, combining an interesting story and atmosphere with good gameplay is the ideal solution. I prefer to have an interesting story because that's what keeps me going, but I also prefer being able to actually play that story, not watch it.
I didn't grow up during the boomer times, I grew up during the PS2 era where I feel like games already had that ideal balance.
Still, I'm not gonna say that I dislike every game that's like 50% cutscenes. Mass Effect and Witcher are heavy into dialogue and cutscens but if I find them genuinely interesting, I still consider them great. But those are RPG's. RPG's are supposed to be story rich and heavy on dialogue where you decide your actions and affect the story.
Mass effect is a bit different since many of its cut scenes are interactive. You choose what the character says and it's part of the gameplay loop.
Games like Uncharted 4, GOW2018 or TLOU don't have that, they simply play a long cut scene without any player input.
exactly there should be a balance but if you have matured in life, you will not care about gameplay, people who care about gameplay 95% of the time are immature, insecure people who care too much about video game. I think red dead redemption 2 is perfect.
@@jugg9140nice bait.
You’re totally right. But the gameplay in THe Last of Us 2 is brutal and fantastic. Fuck the story - shooting and vaulting and blowing people up is always fun there.
I agree to your point about the lack of proper gameplay when it comes to most AAA releases post last of us. But your point abuot MGS and heck even the other games you pointed out to dislike such as Nier automata are games made with a very niche audience in mind. i will unapologetically say that those games are not bad both in story or gameplay sense, they are just not made for you.
MGS story is hard to follow i agree but calling it post modern meta bullshit is really underselling the effect it has had on the industry and the thought provoking effect it has had on players such as me.
Also another point i would like to make is that even though its probably not your intention, a lot of your opinions just come off as subtle gatekeeping.
While modern releases surely have a decreased focus on gameplay, games such as DMC, Resident Evil, and Ratchet and Clank still exist.
And in my opinion gameplay should never be the main priority of a game unless the vision of the developer is entirely tied to that. Video Games as a medium is perfect to allow people to interact and immerse themselves with worlds, characters and stories they could only ever have had read or watched. The interactivity with narrative based games still exist and thats why people are slowly preferring games to other mediums.
This is not a hate post. I seriously agree with a lot of points you made, but try to differentiate biased opinions from actual constructivity.
Calling a game bad because you think its story is post modern bs and its gameplay is not engaging for you, is not really a credible way to call it objectively overrated or bad.
And before you consider that I am a new gen ignorant gamer. My favourite games of all time ate Devil May Cry 3, RE 4, A link to the past, Spider-man Web of Shadows, MGS, FFX and MvC 3 Ultimate. So yeah i have played a shit ton of games in my mere 18 years of lifetime
Near the end of the video, he completely loses me when he basically said that he doesn't care about others people negative opinions of what he think is good... But throughout most of the video, he clearly cares about what majority of people opinions of what good in games.
@@Cookie.2118 Yes he is contradictory to a fault. He tries to make himself look non judgemental but at the same time makes judgements about shit he has not idea about. And whenever someone questions his taste it's always the "I have been playing games before games were popular" bs.
And how the fuck is making communities based on games a bad thing? We have communities of sports, books, shows and every type of media ever given to us, so how do games make the exception for us to be told to touch grass?
@@Cookie.2118 Honestly man the more I watch this video, the more I am finding absolutely biased judgemental claims that he has not right making with the "subjective" attitude he is claiming to have. And it's pissing me off.
I care for games, I have been playing games since I was 4 on my cousin's PC, we did not even have graphics card, but we still made do with software such as Swift shader and 3d analyse through which we enjoyed the fuck out of many games in 10fps. So looking at people taking the medium for granted and just spouting about complaints that should not even exist is rage worthy for me. We have performance issues, crunch and live service practices plaguing our industry, and people are still feuding about what direction games today should to take regardless of the fact that games akin to the experience both parties want exist seperately for them to enjoy.
@@kimetsunoacademia3528 seriously, I disagree with everything he said about rockstar games and I'm not even a fan of Rockstar. The controls are really not that bad (not to mention him playing Vice City on a old laptop that could barely run it... Acting like the game is the problem).
@@Cookie.2118 Ikr, Rockstar games controls are just product of their time, GTA V and Red dead don't even control bad, Idk what he is on about. It's like saying old resident evil games are bad because you can't get used to the tank controls, even though everything else is excellent.
Been saying this for years. Casuals have lowered the standards for gaming overall, rewarding companies who make games that are closer to movies than they are to games. People waste money on those games, play one game thinking it's good because looks what they think of a quality product (or simply a hollywood production) and companies will keep making trash because of that cycle. This and the allowance of outsiders who force feed things like feminism in games is how AAA games have gotten worse and worse over the years.
Not really just you kid
@@lazyvoid7107 The ones missing the point are majority tho
@@baifomet6425 Well you are a minority to it's really is your opinion
I was with you, but 'outsiders' who force things like feminism into games? What, do you think there's some kind of battle going on? Examples?
@@RevoBong look at Neil Druckman and the direction he takes with his games.
Totally agree, a video game having a good story is like a bonus, main thing is the gameplay, graphics and sound.
I don't think a story even if it's 20/10 can makeup for bad gameplay, but a good gameplay can make up for a 0/10 story. I play videogames to play them. I'll always hold gameplay as the most important thing
It's even better if both the gameplay and the story are amazing as opposed to a game that just has great gameplay.
Mafia 3 is an example of this
@@StatiCRjmwhich one would mafia 3 be?
@@reddboytv1332Probably the great story doesn't make up for bad gameplay example.
Ya but metal gear solid 5 has some of the best gameplay ever and in the video, it says it is bad? Does not make sense at all.
As someone who recently became interested in storytelling through video games, I totally agree that game developing companies are milking the movie game genre as an excuse to have boring or unoriginal combat/game-mechanics. I found it funny GoW 2018 was brought up because after dumping hours into that game, I went back and played the original GoW 1 on ps3 and I was shocked to find it very fun and fast-paced. So although I think video games can be used to tell a compelling story, the gameplay must not suffer; if there's people who want an engaging story then they should just read a book or watch a movie lol.
I love a good story but you gotta have engaging gameplay as well when a game can balance both its the best like ghost of Tsushima is a good example of balance the boss fights are engaging they don’t overdue cut scenes
I think thats not all, also the gameplay HAVE to reflect what the story is about, thats why What Remains of Edith Finch is maybe the best videogame ever made, cause in most games the gameplay keeps in the same way during the entire game only giving you new abillities maybe but when the game requires you to interact wit the soroundings, your only options are to shoo, punch, jump or talk.
But Edith Finch even refuses its own genere being not only a walking simulator but also leacing you interact in pretty different ways withim its episodes, of course all of them are some kind of simulation, but they also offer different points of view and you go along with the story, not having to stop playing just to hear someone else talking to you
@@gaothhermesk1289🤓
The boss fights are hella fun, really great story too. Either GoT or doom eternal should have won goty 2020 in my opinion.
@@Ignited_. Dude he is talking about those to in the list of overrated
ehhh i love all rockstar games but ghost of tsushima was just so boring to me played a few missions then deleted it
Video games will always be my favorite storytelling medium BECAUSE of the gameplay. They're stories designed to be interacted with. Yes, some pull this balance off better than others, but to turn around and say that means the entire medium is inadequate for storytelling is reductive and cynical. That's tantamount to saying "Because superhero movies suck, movies are terrible at storytelling." You're personal experience with a game's story vs mechanics is purely anecdotal and not a summary of ALL player's reactions. Go play Pong if you don't want story.
The best comment from what I've seen here. It even engaged me to drop my own comment. And boy, is it a comment indeed 😅
Totally agree. The guy's so fucking delusional.
Excellent post.
It's funny the cultural basis that people have today, not even able to know what is good and bad. This comment about terrible storytelling in games isn't anecdotal at all, if you read any paper about narratology and ludology in videogames, you pretty much know the issues and contradicts in videogame storytelling, like the interruption of flow, the contradiction between interactive gameplay and non-interactive storytelling, the difficult to develop an aesthetics analysis of the game medium, the obsolescence of writing techniques in games, when compared to writing techniques in theater, cinema and literature and etc; saying that videogames has good storytelling just because you liked, that is an anecdotal argument, and your analogy between "Bacause superhero movies sucks, movies are terrible at storytelling" and the argument of videogames being terrible at storytelling, it's a fallacious analogy, first movies and videogames are not the same type of medium, movies are a passive medium and videogames are an active medium, movies are more similar to literature and paintings, because they're passive mediums too; videogames are more similar to table and board games, because they're active mediums; because the category of the object is different, an analogy between this two objects are fallacious, second the argument isn't because games with bad storytelling sucks, so games arebad at storytelling; the argument is about the storytelling in the medium itself, that contradicts the function of the storytelling mediums. Literature and Cinema are mediums with the function of narrative experience, games are mediums with the function of ludic experience, they're opposites, and that is a fact, the existence of Ludonarrative Dissonance it's a proof of it.
Stories can enhance video games but as a "storytelling medium" video games are heavily flawed. Very few authors would pick this medium as a first choice. You'll run into a lot of problems you wouldn't run into otherwise.
Comparing The Last of Us to superhero movies is ridiculous, as TLoU is regarded as the absolute peak of storytelling in games, and superhero movies are seen as "not cinema".
I’ve played The Witcher 3 for about 230 hours and have almost never experienced any bugs
I bug out but not all the shit he said and you cannot just button mash everyone not sure whst he means
The bugged out ocean the only thing
Same
Never going to play it. Watch gameplay and i don’t like how its plays but i do like god of war 2018 and ragnarok etc
i have around 800h on TW3 and the only bug I got is the horse's ass floating bug while coming down from a mountain
More on other people's perceptions: I feel a lot of people in the industry (media and developers) have an inferiority complex around their careers, they are obsessed with games being seen as 'art' and emulate Hollywood and cinema with their linear storytelling, game awards, etc. Rather than being interested in games as its own medium, that's still pretty new.
I love ur perspectives on gaming. In part, i feel like i definitely agree while obviously carrying my own opinions. But nice insight, on top of being contrary to the general beliefs with backing up with examples without just being contrarian just to be one. 👌
The real issue is that most people don't have real preferences or experience "fun". They're just husks following what someone else is doing. Since this is most people games end up becoming stale due to emulating what these people have been programmed to think fun is. There's a big difference between woah this gameplay looks fun to me and woah this game checks all the "fun boxes".
damn right and most after watching this dead ass video will think negatively of the games they like
Who are you to say what is and isn’t fun lmao. You sound corny trying so hard to be different lmao
I won’t I will never let another person tell me what games I enjoy especially the ppl who keeps buying 2k and cod the same game for $70 is crazy my guy
@@scarfaceReaper That’s their fault then not the video or the creator that they can’t think for themselves.
@@scarfaceReaperppl are idiots. What can u do
Reminds me of how i made myself believe i play games for story. Now i play games for what i actually enjoy, long-term satisfaction of gameplay, exploring and leveling... and also visual and musical aesthethics, and my tastes are rather specific.
Recent story games are just that: stories. Because of this, I consume a huge amount of story game content on UA-cam, but almost never play the games myself. In this way, the games would function better as movies or tv shows. Not only is the gameplay boring as hell to the point a cant play it, but sometimes it gets so tedious I even skip the video ahead. No one wants to watch 4 hours of repetitive filler gameplay until the next big plot point
I like MGS but you’re goddam right. There’s like 😂three minutes of gameplay per 45 minutes of story. 😂
Those 3 minutes of gameplay felt much longer to me since 90% of the time I tried to be stealthy and only used CQC and the tranquilizer gun when it was necessary and I sucked so bad I basically spammed load at some parts. The cutscenes did feel really long though and I feel so biased for loving these games while disliking pretty much every other game that does this.
Just skip to the end. He’s mad the girl in his class laughed at him, so this is his payback
I agree with this a lot, idk tho it’s totally subjective but a lot of times story can muddle gameplay, good video mate and gl with future uploads. I personally liked the first TLOU the second one was meh, never played god of war or any uncharted but.
I always liked how souls games tackle gameplay and story, the story is deep if you want it otherwise you can just go through with some epic areas and boss fights. There's always a risk with putting so much emphasis on the story it's a double edged sword because, it all relies on good writing for it to be effective. Everything is subjective at the end of that day but.
Thank you sir, that useless camera just took the jam out of my donut. It was the worst thing they could have done, it shatterd the the engaging pace that set God Of War apart from other action adventure games.
19:44 goess off to bad mouth one thing, says there are way better, proceeds to name 0. dude, am i supposed to schizo-guess what you mean? you make the claim, provide the better example.
for everyone else: games that came around metal gear solid 1998: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Grim Fandango, Banjo-Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, Resident Evil 2, Tenchu: Stealth Assassins, Parasite Eve, Tomb Raider III
which doesn't matter anyway because these are not games that could've influenced MGS cause they released that same year.
other genres: Tekken 3, Half-Life, Metal Gear Solid, Thief: The Dark Project, Baldur's Gate, Einhander, Starcraft, Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus, Fallout 2, Falcon 4.0, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, F-Zero X, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, Xenogears, WipeOut 64, Dead or Alive, Final Fantasy Tactics, Castlevania, Quake
31:00 no. that's the entire point. if you make sh** claims with no backup then no wonder you get backlash, instead thinking you're giving good takes and thinking people are just butthurt.
35:10 I mean you feel so unique why you care where the industry goes? You're full of contradictions.
I don't play games for the story I play games for the gameplay.
Dmc pfp knowing the series has a lot cutscenes
@@lazyvoid7107lmao true
@@lazyvoid7107 but the gameplay is top notch…
@@zaydagoat6952 top notch what by been an anime type gameplay ?why edgy nerds have to be so insufferable like we got it y'all like jrpg or games with "gameplay" but those games still there why complain when a game is different of what you like have to give you depression or something is almost like an incel who gets mad when girls pick other guys and not him
I have another opinion
I got into Uncharted 2 because of the story. But you right, Uncharted 4 was a long ass unskippable movie.
I love when Clint said "It's objectifying time" and objectified gamers taste and invalidated other gamers preference just to trash the game, which is majority by gamers, is beloved and even complaint about making some unnecessary slow gameplay (like the uncharted one) into cutscene then complains that games have too many cutscenes (God of war) and then later make a claim that "there are other games released in the era of MGS that have better story and gameplay" while also not putting those games that is better than MGS at that time to support his argument and also forgetting that at that time games tries to create their own charm to set up their franchise. Truly a video essay of all time.
I love when he's like " Oh I hate when people judge me for my preferences" but the moment someone tells him about the story in a story-driven game , he gets mad lmao
This dude has no critical thinking skills at all lmao.
I aint gon hold you, at first i thought you were trippin. But now i see your point. I'm at the begining of Spiderman 2 and they litterally have a mission objective called "tidy up" which was highkey just a fancy cutscene that leads into an actual cut scene, followed by a bike riding scene (another fancy cut scene) and then followed by another cut scene. WTFFFFFFF
I don't have the same opinion than you on most of the games you didn't like in the video but i totaly agree on your message where games should not have a story that take too much place within the game, negatively affecting the gameplay or using the story to make a game looks like a good game where it actually barely is one without its story.
Same thing for your opinion on the "DC movies are cooler cause they are dark and mature and marvel is for child" that you use as an example.
The over-emphasis on story is one of the reasons _why_ I love older games so much: When they do have a story, they often do their best to balance out the writing and plot with the gameplay, and sometimes have them interact with each other in cool ways. And in fact, some games still do this; the Souls series and Armored Core VI being perfect examples of this, but nowadays, the over-emphasis on story often results in interactive movies with lacklustre gameplay. It might not be the biggest problem with modern AAA gaming, but it is still pretty big.
The newer AC games are prime examples of this
This right here. I spend more time playing older games than newer ones. But I also am one of those gamers who really doesn't care about story in games. But like you said older games seemed to balance out story and gameplay .
It’s why I love classic jrpgs so much.
I agree with this take. There needs to be a balance between the two. And I feel part of it also comes down to the writing and cinematography of said games. When your watching a cutscene, sometimes its best to just let the scene play. Let players get attached to the characters or setting via through editing, facial language, or pacing. Don’t have this need to throw in big set pieces with over the top dialogue, or scenes where literally nothing is explained yet shown just… because. There has to be a balance
Why the fuck is it a problem when people enjoy this. I don't enjoy it so im not playing those types of games its that fucking simple.
Bro you just shredded my entire childhood😭
No, he’s mad the girl at the end screwed his life up.
You sir are a product of your time
This guy just killed his channel right out the gate lol...bold move cotton
What are your thoughts on Silent Hill 2?
i don’t want to know his thoughts on silent hill 2 bro 😭
He most likely despises it too since it's also a cinematic game
@@deathsyruplmao
The idea that if a game has a focus on story it’s trying to be a movie is so smooth brained I can’t even handle it.
Why?
@@dandre3K having cinematic qualities or a story is not the same thing as trying to be a movie. All mediums draw from other mediums. This is normal and even desirable. Also games can do things with its story telling and cinematics that movies can not.
@@nathanhargenrader645 So you agree that at least some popular videogames are movie like.
Videogames as a medium are simply interactive software. Most definitions don’t exclude things like adobe photoshop. A proper game is a specific kind of activity. Interaction by itself isn’t gameplay. A videogame doesn’t necessarily include an actual game. A videogame lacking in gameplay is an interactive movie. In real life this what so called normies see, “This is like watching a movie”. That’s not a judgment on my part just literal observation. We’re talking about completely different products that we happen to refer to as “games”, the problem is people get butthurt when you call their games puzzles or movies like those are bad things.
@@dandre3K I agree with almost everything you said but I do think the nuance is important. Again having qualities that are akin to a movie is different than trying to be a movie. What I take offense too is stances that many take and this video at least partially proposes is that games that are more movie like should just be a movie and have in some way lost their video game-ness somehow. It’s the idea that cinematic qualities or focusing on interactive storytelling and less on gameplay is inherently bad.
Ok I've been gaming a long time and I've plenty of games that focus on story with 5-10 minute cutscenes and through gameplay and text. Now it seems instead of that they opt for 20-60 min cutscenes (depending on your game) and utilise no other method. Basically turning it into a film.
I encourage you to go back and play older games and see for yourself. You will see exactly what people are complaining about.
Gamers largely aren't really gamers anymore; they're overstimulated people with attention span issues who cannot sit still enough to watch a movie or read a book, so they sing praises for interactive movies calling themselves videogames. I write books, I watch movies, I play video games; I don't mix the three, and it's not for lack of trying. I played RDR2 and hated its gameplay, controls feeling awful, gameplay depth itself rather shallow, with its only real selling point being a story and some visuals(if you had the hardware to fully appreciate said visuals.) I played MGS V and found it to be one of the WORST games I've ever played in spite of its high praises; the missions are boring, the world map is bland, the controls are awful(though that's nothing new for MGS games), and the core gameplay is just repetitive filler-esque busywork with shooting involved. Only thing it has going for it is, once again, story and cinematics. I played newer Assassin's creed games and they felt very similar, albeit far grindier like a single player MMO. Hell, this goes as far back as the early 2010's, with things like skyrim, which is basically an elder scrolls movie game; zero narrative influence from the player, less responsive movement, NPC's forcing interaction frequently, lots of gameplay responsiveness overall sacrificed for "immersive" animations and the like.
Games need to be games first, built on gameplay concepts, and then a narrative and visual style added later. A lot of these games feel like they were built in reverse: a story concept placed as the highest priority, followed by a visual style, and then some generic mechanical elements tacked on so it could be sold as a game instead of a movie built in a game engine.
Spot on , you get It. The hobby has long been hijacked from real passionate hardcore gamers and game creators.
@@fawkkyutuu8851Far Cry 3 is a great example of the gameplay and the story contemplating on another. The more you kill and become adapt to the environment, you change into a crazed tribal killer like Vaas. Micheal Mando performance as Vaas is basically a reflection boss/villian of what the player turns into. Jason Brody- the player - basically is a new Vaas after we kill him.
First paragraph seems a little elitist pretentious-ey but I do agree to an extent and especially with that second paragraph.
Gameplay is what MAKES a game, hence the term. I wish more studios would realise that there is a market for these gameplay-driven games tho. Titles like Doom Eternal was a massive success and a huge testament into proving that the modern audience does still care about gameplay over story.
I'm curious about your list of best games you've ever played
This man been playing b4 consoles clearly u wouldn’t like his list. those 3 games are not all that just my opinion
17:43 You lost me here, A game series (GTA 4 + 5) that simulates dayum near every type of:
- Transportation
Bicycles
Motorbikes
Cars
Cabs
Busses
APCs'
Tanks (GTA 5 Only)
Helicopters
Planes (GTA 5 Only)
&
Jets (GTA 5 Only)
- Mechanics
Customization (Clothes, Weapons, Bikes, Cars, Helicopters, Planes Building Interiors)
Ragdoll physics
Damage model (GTA 4 > GTA 5)
Hand to Hand combat (GTA 4 >GTA 5)
Melee combat
Shooting
Swimming
Diving (GTA 5 Only)
- Map
Size
Layout
Real life Buildings and structures
Variety (GTA 5 > GTA 4)
- Radio
Variety
Separation (Into categories [By Radio Station] )
Radio host transitions
...
And your complaint is... b - bb - but the controls???
I still 100% agree with the conclusion at the end, you shouldn't let other people's perception in any way shape, mold or redefine, your own, different people value different things, because we they process them in different ways, and it's ok👍
Although I'm still of the belief that certain things (if not everything) have a constant value, we as humans just aren't all able to detect each (Things) particular value as well as others... specially when we don't value them at all!
I'm a big Metal Gear Solid fan and while I respect your stance on the games, I disagree that the gameplay is "bad" in any of them. The games have a set design on how the controls work. Things like pressure sensitivity and press-and-hold functions are taken into account with the controls. Are they bad? No, but they are very nuanced. They work from a design perspective but the design is not for everyone. I understand that about the Metal Gear series and so I feel the same about them that you do about the TMNT comic that you got made fun of.
I get that MGS4 is a just one big movie and almost no gameplay, but the gameplay that's there is still great, and the ways you can tackle a situation like stealth and especially boss fights. I think the problem with Metal Gear Solid games is that some people who play them treat them too much like movies and don't actually sit down to grasp the gameplay mechanics. When you actually grasp the gameplay mechanics you will find that they are actually quite deep, maybe even deeper than the story of the series (which I do admit is often really bonkers but still fun).
I actually used to be a Kojima fan way back but now that I'm older I just see him as another game director who had a certain vision for his games. He definitely has a socio-political agenda behind his games' stories but many of them (like MGS2 especially) do have profound meanings and correlations to real life and offer a glimpse into what our world has become before it even happened. And the way those stories were told could only be done through an interactive medium such as video games. Even if there is a divide between the story cutscenes and gameplay segments of MGS, some of the games manage to strike a good balance between the two (MGS3 is the best example of this, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the remake goes).
I do appreciate your hot takes on games being overrated and having the story sometimes get in the way of the experience, but if we can focus on the actual gameplay mechanics of the game then we can truly judge how shallow or complex they. You did do just that with other games like Uncharted and The Last of Us, but I feel your analysis of Metal Gear Solid is not as comprehensive as it should be if you wanted to get your point across. Either way, thanks for this video and thanks for reading my comment if you did. Happy gaming!
I agree and this is also my biggest gaming pet peeve in the last decade . There needs to be a clear distinction between gameplay and cutscene because if there isn't not only do I find the game boring but it's also impossible for me to replay . The Metal Gear Solid games are a perfect example of that . Sure they are story and cutscene heavy but if I want to replay them I can skip past everything and just focus on the gameplay
Every cutscene should always immediately be skippable , but you shouldn't have to want to do that anyway , there should be very few spaced out cutscenes so that you appreciate the unique contrast of them and added world immersion when they finally do arrive , and they have to actually be artistically distinct looking cutscenes with less words and more cool art or CG. I miss when cutscenes didn't look exactly like the in-game graphics due to limitation , they looked strikingly different and that's part of the unique contrast I was talking about within oldschool game design , like most PS1 games had In the 90s where It was a treat to sit back after hard work/progress and watch them , cutscenes were handled so differently from game to game back then , where as today most cutscenes and graphical engines look like the same formulaic copy-paste style and they're too frequent and long , but those oldschool PS1 era cutscenes didn't overstay their welcome because most of those games were forced to win you over on pure gameplay and letting the landscape and atmosphere and every asset tell It's own cryptic story. Modern games overdo It being too talky and focused on realistic melodrama , It makes them come off cheesy and annoying really fast. imo oldschool 5th and 6th gen games handled narrative better too , they were less imposing on your imagination with little to no voice acting , Miyazaki's Soulslike games are one of the only few modern games that still balance minimal voice acting just right and allow the environment and your natural Interactivity/curiosity to give you just enough unforced organic story lore.
@@fawkkyutuu8851
Perfectly said! I never really thought about it this way but you are absolutely right! Going from gameplay to cutscene in games like Final Fantasy 8 back in the day was so freaking cool and that novelty has been completely lost nowadays
I also agree on Souls games . Despite the bosses not saying a word a lot more people will remember them over some melodramatic character that won't ever shut up from modern games
Lastly on your final point this is why I believe the development team that is making the Silent Hill 2 Remake will butcher it
Sorry for not replying sooner but youtube notifications are messed up
You have some good points, but you miss the mark on A, games are not solely fun experiences, it's an active way to consume media so creators can use that to convey emotions in whichever way they want, because you know, they will find their audience.
So, a game doesn't need to be fun to play to be good, Silent Hill 2 isn't fun, but it is a masterpiece that works specially because you are playing it and not watching it, that's what I think a lot of old school gamers don't get, bad gameplay or lack of gameplay doesn't equal a bad game, a videogame can be used to tell a story or something else than satisfying gameplay. Like your Rockstar example, most of their games feel dated regarding gameplay, but most people play them because of their organic open worlds that react to your actions, that's what they are looking for, it's weird to put all videogames inside that box "oh, it have great atmosphere, narrative, good ideas and interesting mechanics, but it could play a lot better, so it's shit".
And finally B, videogames are in a similar state to cinema, so, all your AAA examples can be viewed as a new Marvel or Fast and the Furious movie, they are trying to make a lot of money and appeal to a broad audience, and this type of stuff is trending right now, so they do it, but if you really want to play games that primarly focus on gameplay, and try to make new and exciting experiences just play some indie games, story is not ruining videogames, it's just more niche, we have devs making the type of games you like to play, you just have to look for it somewhere else
I’ll say it the opposite way.
If a game wants to be popular it needs to be somewhat simple.
When things get complicated the community turns into a bunch of mad man lost in their minds.
I don’t think games like Fromsoft or the Fnaf games are super deep and impossible to follow… but the moment you peak at the community and you only see terminal internet people sucking each other off.
Like how people refuse to acknowledge the Name change on Phase 2 and are still debating and will forever debate the description of the Scarlet Flower.
Or the Fnaf people trying to say their story is deep when every time a new game comes out the entire story gets more confusing cause they don’t care about the continuity.
So the reason the popular games are popular like Red Dead 2, Witcher 3 and Uncharted are popular is because they are sincere. Sure they act like having a random character insinuating depth makes some fans go crazy, but on the major story things are crystal clear.
And because of this I reached acceptance. I love DMC, I love that it’s a “gameplay game”… yet I love the story, or at least when Vergil is involved cause the sibling rivalry is when the story and gameplay are at their peak. He was the best boss in DMC 1, 3 and 5. And their scenes is when the protagonist is most emotionally vulnerable.
People can scream about their depth of trauma explaining their actions… but in truth the fact it’s the archetype of Siblings fighting is enough to be happy about the story when playing.
nah
Elden ring's lore is so profound and deep that you'd sh-t your pants if you actually understood or contemplated it
A lucid and thoughtful take, but I disagree.
I don’t think video games should be accepting this trend. And I do see a tide shifting back, because video game writing is still way too vapid and most people are realising how often the depth doesn’t match up to the posturing.
I'm planning to make a video about this subject that I'm about to comment here, but I just wanted to share it here.
Games are absuing their powers. No other medium can do what games can do:
-Be intractable
-Have music
-Tell a story and have characters
So what games _nowadays_ are doing is abusing the fact that they can do a story in their game. Notice how games used to be made FOR gamers back in the day? Every game had mechanics and depth at the forefront. Now? Games are made with _gamers in mind._
Now, you're no longer platforming and jumping manually, the game does it for you. Just press the "action" button.
Platforming? Just hold the stick towards where you wanna go.
Nowadays, only ASPECTS of games are awesome. The game as a whole, as a complete package is no longer favoring replayability. Game has to be open world with a lot of menus to go through and manage, and it has to be over 30 hours long instead of a compact 8-10 hour campaign that turns into a 4-5 hour experience when you've mastered the thing. And what do people do? Casuals (casuals. A word used as a literal insult back in the day. I'm not even that old and it used to be an insult) not going for mastery LOVE it. They LOVE finishing this 400 hour long game and instantly moving to the next game.
God of War Ragnarok's combat is a literal dream. But it's constantly gatekept behind a game design that goes against replayability;
-Walky talkies
-Climby talkies
-Boaty talkies
-Standy talkies
-Unskippable cutscenes at launch (!)
So now? We have Valhalla. Haven't touched a second of Ragnarok ever since Valhalla dropped. Why? Cuz it has what I love about Ragnarok. The combat. The gameplay.
Games are abusing the fact that they can have an interactive narrative. Case closed.
I really agree that games trying to replicate movies will just hold back creativity in gaming. You can have so many creative ways to tell a story in a game, like how Dark Souls has a non-intrusive but extremely deep narrative, or how some fighting games can even tell a character's story through movesets, personalities, and even character themes (one of my favorite examples being Leo Whitefang from Guilty Gear). There's a great video from Yahtzee Croshaw (Zero Punctiation) where he talks about immersive narratives.
But in all respect, I could not disagree more on your MGS takes. They're not perfect games by any means, since sometimes Kojima gets waayy up his own ass, but saying that the gameplay is terrible because of a couple of bosses feels disingenuous to the rest of the gameplay. The core gameplay itself is not the deepest thing ever but its still relatively challenging and gives enough room for creativity compared to a game like Red Dead 2. Also, there are plenty of great bosses that completely make up for the weak ones for me, like Psycho Mantis, Raven, The End, The Boss, and Decoy Octopus.
I can shake on the dub being pretty silly and sloppy, but I think the stories work much better in the context of a game for MGS than in other games. Firstly, the stories work so effectively because the game acknowledges it is just that: a game. MGS2 breaks the fuck out of the 4th wall to comment on its theme and to catch your attention and MGS3 has a literal boss that highlights the actions you willingly took in game to make commentary (and not in the way that TLOU2 did). Secondly, I think its fine to criticize a game because the story sucks, but if you really just don't like cutscenes or story, like in general and you only want gameplay, then you can skip them just fine and still come out with a complete game. There are only a handful of gameplay segments in the entire series (excluding 5 who did it way too much) where the game forcibly stops you or limits your control. I think I really came to appreciate Snake Eater on my second playthrough, where after getting a hang of the game and story and skipping most cutscenes, I ended up loving the gameplay a lot.
But yeah, people online glaze Kojima way too hard so I can see why. I have the exact same experience you had with MGS4 towards a different game in a popular JRPG series that is hyped beyond belief to me
I asune ff 7
@@indedgames4359 the original Persona 3 FES, although from what I’ve played, the remake seems to fix a lot of the issues I had, so at least there’s that
I feel like the old god of war games were much deeper than they are now in terms of characterization and development
Nah
@@thenumber2xcvc940Bait
Tik tok attention span final boss
The average TLoU fan doesn't read books and doesn't know what "ludonarrative dissonance" means. Stop acting smug.
Gamers trying to berate someone’s attention span is painful irony.
This isn’t Ulysses bro, anyone who is an avid gamer has dogshit attention span. You’re all lacking in that department… don’t throw stones from glass houses lol.
I so agree with you dude, these Long Story Driven Games lack replayability and I hate how they constantly take away Control or use Spectacle instead of engaging gameplay.
Garbage "immsersive" controls and taking control away are 2 of the biggest reasons I've lost a ton of interest in AAA games.
you guys dont really have to play that sorta game tho? if you are looking for very good gameplay there is HUGE market for you guys with multiplayer games and tons of more gameplay focused games catering to your needs
@@Pinakiprime910 Lots of our favorite Series are turning into those types of games, that’s why.
@@Terminal_Apotos like what? all those favourite series started out as story driven games
Ok? Then don't lay them..
Extra Credits does a piece on Roger Ebert saying video games aren't art. He relates a story about the guy that created Missile Command. The game play itself tells a story: one of nuclear holocaust and you can't win. You can only hold out as long as possible. Gave the guy that made the game nightmares just thinking about it. ITMT: Uncharted 2 is on my top 10 games of all time. But now I think I understand why GTA isn't working for me. And I've been at this a while too. My 1st home console was an all in one game of Pong. Had 4 handles so you could have 4 paddles on screen to play doubles and sim hockey. Followed by a Commodore 64 with both tape deck and floppy disc drive which held a max of about 166 kilobytes.
Why do you care so much that people enjoy story driven games? It’s not like there aren’t a million different games for all of us to individually enjoy
He could literally just stick to the switch and be happy
You didn't finish Nier Automata? The gameplay in it is incredible
Me personally, I didn't find the gameplay all that great. There's lots of running around in empty space and the combat feels pretty bad for a character action game, mostly because of it's lack of combo variety and interesting mechanics. Shmup parts are also underwhelming and feel very unnecessary. Yoko Taro's games are generally known for their plot and interesting themes, not so much for their gameplay.
@@gabrielsandor3474 To each his own I guess
@@lukejones7164the guy likes nintendo, its pretty clear. Nier Automata is a good ass game
@@MelodyGrooveJunction What does that mean? I like Nintendo too (huge Zelda fan here).
@@MelodyGrooveJunction What does liking Nintendo have to do with not being a big fan of Nier Automata's gameplay? A more likely reason would be that I've been spoiled by other combat focused action games with a more captivating gameplay (Devil May Cry, Fromsoft games, Bayonetta, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma, Nioh etc.). Just so you know, I do like Nier Automata. In fact, I like most titles directed by by Yoko Taro, even the Drakengard games, which most people would agree are pretty mediocre if not bad. Gameplay is not everything to me.
The point you made at like 5min about the 3rd person perspective being too close is one ive had for years. Darksiders is one my favorite examples of 3rd person done so so right. I feel like i can see the world around me. That view with the character taking up 35% of my screen hinders my gameplay because you essentially just cut off one of my peripherals.
Im curious what your thoughts are on the gears of war games.
Games aren’t that deep for you. That doesn’t mean that should be the case for everyone; back in the day when movies were relatively new there were people like you complaining that “movies aren’t that deep,” and they would even say if you want a good story why not just read a book. I’m sorry man, but not everyone has the same prerogative as you and the people that agree with you, so even if you think these games are the biggest waste of time, that doesn’t matter because people aren’t just gonna cater to your tastes. There are a million and one games with very little focus on story and you could play all those games for the rest of your life instead of bitching about how other people enjoy things.
This is by far the cringiest comment ive seen
@@memelord7643 And memelord7643 is the cringiest username I’ve seen. Don’t you got some 5th grade math to work on kid.
Yeah, the dude literally doesn't understand what the vid was about and It shows
go back into your forgotten tomb, crusty old man
Agreed. if you dont like the games with a deep story dont play it there are other games my guy. complaining about games aint that deep.
I think the Souls-franchise is a good example of how to incorporate good story into your game without it getting in the way of the gameplay. All of them have very deep and fantastic lore, that explains the narrative context for your actions as well as the very few cutscenes in each game. However, engaging in the lore and story is completely optional. And what i like even more, is how the super fun gameplay and the choices of my character is woven together with the lore. Also, they have very effective environmental storytelling instead of long cutscenes with boring expository dialogue.
I do like the new GOW games tho. The story is fucking awesome, but i think you make a fair point about it getting in the way of the actual gameplay. It doesn't really bother me, but i can see how some people would be annoyed by it. Combat-wise however, i think it deserves more credit IMO. It feels weighty and powerful, there is enough variety and depth to get a little fancy with your moves, yet the tools at your disposal aren't overwhelming and confusing. You have 3 different weapons (in Ragnarok) to choose from, each with a unique skilltree and set of (badass) abilities. The traversal sucks tho, i agree. But hey, at least you get to listen to Kratos' and Atreus' (very) well-written banter while you do the boring traversal.
Great video, i saw the thumbnail and went in with a lot of skepsis. I disagree with a lot of it, but you still make a very fair arguments for your points that even someone who disagrees with can relate to (unlike a lot of people in the internet).
Sorry for the long comment, just wanted to share my thoughts
im sorry but souls games dont have a story it has world building item descriptions does not a good story make
@@thekittenthatwantschicken8018ok lil bro
im correct but whatever@@OGP2293
@@thekittenthatwantschicken8018that's not entirely true. There's an ongoing story in these games and the npcs tell you what's going on they just don't go into extreme detail about the events. Plus there's also sekiro which is also a souls game and it's a lot more direct.
@@noctisastrum7495 A lot of npcs are locked behind other npcs questlines and most npcs aren't going to be found without prior knowledge
Man! This video and tlou one are masterpieces and this comes from a big mgs fan! Your a breath of fresh air brother! Tomorrow I'm gonna watch the shehulk one just so i can hear your take! Keep up the vids if possible!
Lmao what was this video.
It started off about his opinion on overrated games then went on a rant about the inner workings of his mind.
Highly entertaining but I really don't want to end up like this guy.
Its not like movies didnt start out with no dialogue, let stuff evolve and have better storytelling. But I definitely agree with them interrupting gameplay with unnecessary unfun sections that dont relate to normal gameplay. Also your stance on the new god of wars actually makes sm sense, I remember getting to feel the final button press finishing the bosses in the old games now it’s automated 😢
the games are becoming too much like movies and not evolving in their own way. Movies also didnt become more and more like books.
@@carljohnson6183I disagree heavily, but I understand why people may see that
I would love to see this get millions of views. I'll bet you could make an excellent video about NOT preordering games
minority moment
Months after this clip, indy games with near zero stories are having a golden moment and game companies are having massive layoffs.
I guess the math ain't mathing with these movie style games afterall 😅
MGS was my introduction to the series and it was amazing from what i remember. Im glad its getting a remake.
Counterpoint for 29:57 - I do think U4 has better GAMEPLAY than U2, even if I agree with you that yes, its story mode is far worse than U2’s (bad pacing, too much semi-interactive BS).
Playing both games’ multiplayer modes (that focus purely on gameplay), it’s really hard to deny just how much the controls and mechanics have evolved in U4: the grappling hook, 60 frames, etc make U4 have superior GAMEPLAY.
This is why Left 4 dead 1&2, dishonored 1&2, Original God of War series, and Batman Arkham series are the best of the best of games to have ever released: insane replay value, immersive gameplay, and simple but engaging mechanics.
Add resident evil and DMC to the list of good games with replay value
What FPS games have you tried?
EDIT:
I just got done finishing the video. When you were talking about Open World games and stuff, I thought about the open world games I enjoyed, and realized that the ones that I finished or played the most, were ones that had fun gameplay but not a good story (Except Spider-Man, that has a decent one).
I know you said you don’t like open world games, but I still would like to recommend Spider-Man: Miles Morales. The games only 7 and a half hours long, plus the combat and webswing is solid
As for FPS games, maybe give TITANFALL 2 a try. I know a lot of people mostly talk about it’s multiplayer, but the campaign is a short but sweet 6 hours where you ride a Titan, wall run, and be an overpowed badass.
Kojima is huge into film, cutscenes are vital to games. I do get the console wars being stupid, they are, but gaming is still an art form as film and music, and online gaming was the best and worst and best thing that ever happened
caring about gameplay over story is fine. acting like gameplay is always the most important thing about a game is wrong. it might be for a game you like, but not every type of game should have gameplay prioritised. saying story SHOULD be the fourth priority under GRAPHICS is actually a wild opinion though. i hate movies, i hate books, i love games. i love almost exclusively story based or atmosphere type games like silent hill 2-3 or bioshock or yume nikki. i think not liking that stuff is fine, but you are framing these arguments like you’re the arbiter of video game knowledge where you just… aren’t. i’m not either but i’m not going to say that art design and story need to be top priorities for every game, that’s just not true. you liked a franchise, it changed, you don’t like it anymore. those old games are still there. the game devs should be able to change directions, often times people find game franchises that stay the same for 15 games stale and that’s what happened with assassins creed. people were getting bored with it. there needs to be room for experimentation with new entries and possible improvements. you’re acting like people who like story driven games with mid gameplay are wrong (you said those types of games shouldn’t be made) and that they’re ruining gaming. the customers are not the companies. yes sales influence new games but you said people can like those games. but if they buy them it’s bad cuz then they get made and that’s ruining the franchise for you. it’s such an odd way to frame how you’re talking about it. calling the witcher franchise bullshit does kinda show your hand a bit. it’s not bullshit or the wrong way to make games cuz you don’t like it. hideo kojima does suck though lol
The guy just has strong opinions, ! guess. I'm actually on the same boat as him in the case where I will always enjoy a gameplay-focused game more than any story-driven ones but I do understand why these games are favoured in this current era, they have a bigger demographic and profit margins. There's more people that want a streamlined, one playthrough type of games more than than there are people that want games like DMC where you would want to have multiple playthroughs to fully immerse yourself in those games' strong gameplay loop.
I am a little envious tho. Back then those games were made by top AAA companies, but now you'd be hard pressed to find a Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta/DMC-style games that aren't just soulslikes or made by smaller developers that have to compromise on certain aspects of their game because they don't have the limitless amounts of resources that a big company like Rockstar does. I do find some merit in highlighting this complaint tho because imo there 100% is a bigger demographic in these games than the companies know.
18:50 AH HELL NO! 19:16 Man, he is trolling. You also have 2 boss battles that use sniper rifles, 2 that use stinger missiles, 1 using pistol vs revolver, 1 against a psychic, 1 against a vulcan gun (bigger gatling gun from a plane), 1 in a moving jeep with an attached M60. You have to fire a radio controlled missile down twisting hallways.
20:11 Man, this guy has some vendetta against Hideo Kojima. The story of MG1 is better than 70% of movies. He is either trolling or Metal Gear Solid stole his girlfriend.
You've articulated a lot of stuff that I've suspected for years but didn't quite have the ability to define. Extremely based takes, you've got my subscription 💯
I hate how people say things like, “this is bad” or “this is overrated” and all there points are subjective
At the end of the day there needs to be a balance between subjectivity and objectivity. Acting like one is better than the other leads to a bull sh** superiority complex.
But he still right about games focusing on cinematics to much
@@Bru21424
But there is an audience for that.
Why limit what games can do?
@@Indigo_1001 I agree with that just thought his take was valid too
how is boring gameplay, bad controls or bugs subjective
I agree that a good story isn’t necessary for a great game. I’ll even concede that a lot of stories get in the way of the fun of the gameplay and overall experience. But please do not tell me that the story telling for tlou 1 was on par with mediocre film or series writing. Not even close lol.
Yea exactly. This guy's fucking delusional when it comes to most of his opinions.
Fax
TLOU 1 was mediocre in every sense, story, direction, gameplay, the lot. This is why it appealed to so many people (not real gamers), normies who like to think they are gamers. If you've ever read from the cannon of English literature, French literature, and the Golden Age of German literature, plus other countries masterpieces from around the world you would then know what qualifies as 'good' writing. TLOU 1's story is generic, pedestrian and a yawn. It's designed for the average IQ, the average person, and the average casual gamer, because that's where the dollars are, to be gathered from moronic dipsticks who don't know any better. Games like TLOU 1 are made to appeal to the lowest common denominator, otherwise they won't sell well, money is the name of the game, not quality. hehehehe
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with brain dead games, just know that's what they are, brain dead games. A lot of the most popular games in the world are games that make people think they are cleverer than what they really are, games like; Destiny 2, Diablo 4, FFXIV, Starfield, Elden Ring + all Souls Games (I like them, but...), all Total War games, Baldur's Gate 3 (I like it), ad infinitum, ad nauseam. I love gameplay over story, because devs just cannot write good video game stories, not real video games anyway, there will be some walking sim that may have a reasonable story ya nah. hehehehe
Tlou 1 narrative was good, but was good for a game, not good on the point of view of narratology, art criticism, and analytic critics, it was good just because there isn't anything similar in the videogame medium. Just compare it with the classics of literature and cinema.
@@thalesenrique3495 Except it was tho. Tlou is a simple story done great. Countless videos analyzing all three acts.
Ever heard of the skip button in cutsense? ._.
I beg to differ about one key argument. While i agree that pure ludic (gameplay-centric) games have a place and should not disappear or be eclipsed, there is also merit in exploring games as an interactive storytelling medium even if that means some compromises on the gameplay mechanics in the interest of cinematic moments. There aren't many analogies I can think of - it is essentially its own medium - but the closest thing I can come up with is choose-your-own-adventure books.
IMO cutscene-heavy (even if light on the gameplay) games and gameplay-heavy (even if light on the story) games can have their own distinct audiences, one in for an interactive narratological experience, and another for the challenge and fun of innovative gameplay. And, of course, there could naturally be those that innovate and provide some amount of overlap.
Bro said mgs4 is on the same level as far cry 6 actually delusional lmfao