Owen Jones meets Keir Starmer | 'Brexit is an opportunity for sensible immigration rules'
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2017
- Labour is in a tough position when it comes to Brexit. In its heartlands in the north, the party's traditional supporters voted to leave the European Union but in its urban strongholds they voted heavily to remain. Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, is in the unenviable position of balancing those two opposing demands. I went to his constituency of Camden in north London to find out about the party's Brexit negotiation plans and ask why Theresa May seems hellbent on giving the impression she'll leave the European Union with no deal.
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Well this has aged like milk hasn't it!
Indeed!
😂
6 years later, and it's now become like some of the most rancid, mould covered, stench riddled lumps of dairy known to man.
No it hasn't, it's obvious starmer gets it
"Today I'm interviewing Keir, not my cat"
* closes window *
2:00 changed his tune 2 years later and no doubt contributed to being absolutely thrashed.
He hasn't changed his views
Wonder who would be better for negotiating, one of the most highly respected lawyers or Boris Johnson.
Space Ballzz I'm not sure tbh. We do need to improve the housing crisis, NHS (at least we have the 350 million), people in food banks or we could have strong and stable!
The Hidden Socialist I know it was sarcasm :)
Boris Johnson is the foreign sec. Not Brexit sec.
Former British Ambassador Craig Murray has this to say about May.
"May has continually tried to pitch this as a question of who you would wish to act as the negotiator of Brexit, either her or Jeremy Corbyn. But why would anybody believe that a woman who is not even capable to debate with her opponents would be a good negotiator?
In fact she would be an appalling negotiator. She becomes completely closed off when contradicted. She is incapable of thinking on her feet. She is undoubtedly the worst performer at Prime Minister’s Questions, either for government or opposition, since they were first broadcast. Why on earth would anybody think she would be a good negotiator? As soon as Michel Barnier made a point she was not expecting across the table, she would switch off and revert to cliché, and probably give off a great deal of hostility too.
The delusion she would negotiate well has been fed by the media employing all kinds of completely inappropriate metaphors for the Brexit negotiations. From metaphors of waging war to metaphors of playing poker, they all characterise the process as binary and aggressive.
In fact - and I speak as somebody who has undertaken very serious international negotiations, including of the UK maritime boundaries and as the Head of UK Delegation to the Sierra Leone Peace Talks - international negotiation is the opposite. It is a cooperative process and not a confrontational process. Almost all negotiations cover a range of points, and they work on the basis of you give a bit there, and I give a bit here. Each side has its bottom lines, subjects on which it cannot move at all or move but to a limited degree. Sometimes on a single subject two “bottom lines” can be in direct conflict. Across the whole range of thousands of subjects, you are trying to find a solution all can live with.
So empathy with your opposite number is a key requirement in a skilled negotiator, and everything I have ever seen about Theresa May marks her out as perhaps having less emotional intelligence than anybody I have ever observed. Bonhomie is also important. Genuine friendship can be a vital factor in reaching agreement, and it can happen in unexpected ways. But May has never been able to strike up friendships outside of a social circle limited to a very particular segment of English society, excluding the vast majority of the English, let alone Scots and heaven forfend continentals. The best negotiators have affability, or at least the ability to switch it on. It is a vital tool.
That is not to say occasionally you do not have to speak and stare hard to make plain that one of your bottom lines is real. But that is by no means the norm. And you need the intelligence and sharpness to carry it off, which May does not. That is one of the many differences between May and Thatcher.
Frankly, if I had the choice between sending in Jeremy Corbyn, with his politeness and reasonableness, or Theresa May, into a negotiation I would not hesitate for a second in choosing Corbyn. I am quite sure there is not another diplomat in the World who would make a different choice. May’s flakiness and intolerance of disagreement represent a disaster waiting to happen."
Indeed, that is often my point.
But seeing as May is selling herself to the electorate as the tough Brexit negotiator ( More deception and lies ) and most don't tend to look any further in order to make an informed choice when they vote, I thought it best to post that comment by Craig Murray
Interesting watching this in the aftermath of the 2019 election.
Absolutely. EU policy should not have changed. Thornberry for sure Mcd for sure and all thr red Tories pushed for the change. But now its easier to blame JC rather than confront their mistake
@@andrewjackson1662 The lib dems were right behind them in the polls. They had to offer a second referendum to squeeze the lib dems
@@andrewjackson1662 I was someone that pushed for Labour to change its EU position and my god do I regret that now
Starmer should have rewatched this last summer
Lmao try during the CV pandemic
I remember this bloke. What became of him?
If he makes it as leader he faces trying start labour s old tractor that out of fuel..and no engine! I like him! Best of luck!
Lee M Day if he’s shown anything since taking over it’s that he can roast Boris in PMQs
Why aren't we seeing Keir more on the national stage?
Paul Garner Saving his own CV under Corbyn
Paul Garner Though he is a member of the shadow cabinet, he is not part of 'Team Corbyn' he backed Owen Smith, and in this campaign the leadership have been keen to put forward those who backed Corbyn.
Paul Garner Because he is a Traitor Scum Bag with a Double Decker Head !!
He is extremely well qualified for the Brexit negotiations.
No deal is better than a bad deal.
You wouldn't buy a car at any deal/price would you?
You would if you needed a car to successfully carry on with your day to day life!
Extremely well qualified at speaking BS
1:40 his position he went from accepting the referendum result to wanting to overturn it to accepting the Brexit result as leader
Keir Starmer should appear in the media more frequently.
He's reassuring, I feel like Brexit can happen and it won't be the massive failure it seems at the moment
Why they keep trotting out Diane I don't know.
BEN TWOONEZERO For a laugh. The cabinet lights a bong and dares Abbott to see how badly she can fuck up and they have a great time
Because she and Corbyn spent quality time together ?
He is a TOTAL WASTE OF space
@Jamie Brennan Yeah he's great
As a non-Labour voter can I say that I rate this guy massively.
He should be next leader of Labour. Whoever Labour choose Right wing media will eat them up. So,we need someone who is really strong.
Are you related to Owen?
Kier is a excellent choice to negotiate brexit.
Will he get us out of the EU and the single market ?
What 2 keep us in
Another deluded labour loony
Can we get this version of Keir back pls, not the version we have today
This video has aged absolutely terribly!
Seems like a bright man- Oxford educated, a lawyer with a good record on human rights. Wasn't sure about him at first- not the best on question time- but I'm positively surprised.
He's intelligent, sure, but you don't want a stupid politician. Not sure how him being intelligent is a negative.
It's an interesting subject because people of any IQ are able to have deep, meaningful thoughts. However there is some evidence that people of a higher IQ go on to do better than those of a lower IQ, e.g. in terms of financial success (not so much happiness though, as people of extremely high IQ are often very miserable). You're quite right that there are different types of intelligence though; Stephen Fry can write an excellent book but would fail at building a house. I'm not sure academic success is really about IQ as much as it is about how motivated people are to work hard. Getting into Oxford requires a very high IQ though, and this is mainly due to the extremely demanding entry tests. Keir Starmer therefore seems like an intelligent guy who is a great asset to the Labour party.
I say it's positive because I don't think anyone wants a labour politician who isn't knowledgeable or sympathetic to human rights.
People with higher IQ are more easily fooled by conjurer's misdirection they say, because we're primed to make links and look where we need to to pick up pertinent information. Maybe you've heard talk about skillets associated with autism, though I should point out AS can be identified across the fullest range of measurable IQs. These are just limited examples. There's been a modern problem with the movement that is narrowing and academisation of human worth and political necessaries as if in protest at the widening of compassion and empowerment to previously dehumanised and disenfranchised groups.
Kathy Bramley I think the academisation of human worth isn't as significant as the financialisation, which is far more damaging because it encourages selfish behaviour, is alienating and is strongly correlated with mental illness. You're quite right that people with aspergers who have extremely high IQs might not function as well in social situations and therefore in general society. However I'm not sure that's relevant in the vast majority of cases.
I've grown up with both vilest ableist bullying and praise for my intelligence. Both make me uncomfortable. And I have children with different kinds of needs and I believe in above reasonable adaptation and access. Good access is good for everyone. We should have the kind of community where special schools can have meaningful non cringeworthy hustings, where both learning disabilities and the otherwise disabled are directly represented and able to play full part in policy and parliament, and Tom Paris doesn't scoff at people finding forms off-putting in the case of money.
Its not all totally meaningless. But. Argh. Supremacism. And the eugenist ideals of breeding up the working class for maximum productivity that left and right have espoused in the past. Revolting disgusting hoary shitfaced on their hubris type arrogance. Or maybe a common human misguided understanding of how things work. Even without looking for high falutin evidence which does exist, I look at claims of intelligence and stupidity and treat those two imposters just the same.
And here we are 5 years later. Pathetic!!!
Sir Keir made a colossal misstep in his Brexit stance. However I give him credit for taking on board the lessons of Dec 2019. I hope he listens, if he genuinely does then he may win some of us back.
The problem is that his brexit mishap cost Labour the red wall. Since brexit was the core issue of 2019, voters there wanted brexit more than a Labour government.
Ppl blame Corbyn, but it wasn’t his fault at all.
This aged badly
#makejunetheendofmay
Keir comes across as a very intelligent man and easy on the ear yet he says he doesn't understand why people voted for Brexit. It's not rocket science, this is a small wealthy country we cannot have open borders to over 20 poorer countries. How the hell do you plan for schools, hospitals and infrastructure. If you can't see this get out of public service. This is before you even take into account all businesses having to abide by EU rules and regulations when the vast majority of trade in the UK is not with the EU.
SuperstarDJ when Brexit is no longer an issue Keir will easily get my vote
Good man. Lets work harder in order to stop the tories.
‘Our mandate is clear’ That’s when he lost me...
Mr. Starmer is a serious person. It makes me dread a labour government less.
It bloody clear now, Labour under Corybn and his comrades are the best team for our country! Vote Labour and ask more undecided voters to vote labour! Make June the End of May!
This is the problem with the Labour Party and Owen Jones in particular. They put labels on people and people don’t like it.
I agree. This is something I've noticed over the past 4 years and its rather worrying.
Love how he went from interviewing Keir to Calling Keir a liar.
That's because Starmer is a liar and Jones exposes all his lies, which you can see in my post above.
Did you respect democracy No! Simple you lost because you ignored democracy and democratic process
Exactly, they paid the price for being undemocratic and then they criticise other countries for not accepting election results. Hope they've learnt their lesson. I blame Blair.
I was never able to get a clear picture of what Labour's position was.
Owen, are you going to have your breakdown before or after the vote?
Owen Jones is in favour of freedom of expression when he agrees with what is being said.
Being in the EU was a opportunity for sensible immigration. 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
I think Keir Starmer makes a really interesting point here. It's not that the conservatives have necessarily done anything terrible over the last few years- there have been some things of course- it's more that they haven't really done anything useful to improve the standards of living for 90% of people. Labour should be able to capitalise on this.
Quality interview. Rationale, well-reasoned and articulate. It's exactly what we need when negotiating something of this magnitude.
Theresa May has made this a Presidential-style election based on previous perception of her as a safe pair of hands and Corbyn as a detached back-bencher and a throwback to the 1970s. This was a mistake as behind her "safe pair of hands" facade there is no substance, not only in that there is no relatable personality (leadership) to her but also that worryingly there are no policies and no costings, no vision for a country in potential freefall because of Brexit. On the other hand, Corbyn's zeal for campaigning and growth in confidence for his media appearances along with of course his costed and clear policies has helped give Labour the identity that he was elected by the membership to provide. If Labour's rise continues and they overtake the Tories in the polls, this could be the best and most hopeful position Labour have been in for years and who'd have said that only two months ago?
You're full of it Starmer
All I'm left wondering, is why do some people have their face blurred out in the background, but some people who look straight in the camera don't?
this reminds me of how flight and the conchord's film crew deal with the height differential
Could someone tell me why Corbyn isn't pushing the fact that Keir Starmer will be negotiating the Brexit deal?
The position Labour have taken on Brexit is a big reason it is not as big an issue as we thought it would be. Leavers are happy because Labour isn't going to block it & remainers are happy because labour is aiming for a soft brexit.
Im happy as long as we leave the EU and the single market.
Wow kier starmer has aged quickly. Looks 15 years younger here
I like this guy Keir, plain speaking, well informed and calm, principled.
@RoadKillzine because jrm is a snob who's only interest is reinforcing the establishment that you rightys seem to want to fight against. Not to mention his position on homosexuality and abortion...
He should go back to doing Law + not do anything that might inflict labour on us
In 2020 this is hilarious video / interview
seems like a top bloke
This man is VERY VERY VERY DANGEROUS
Referenda are not legally binding in the UK, so why do we have to respect the result of what is in essence a big opinion poll?
Watching in 2021 after kier has come across so poorly , he has constantly agreed with the Tory government
OK, I'm back to loving Keir Starmer. I felt seriously betrayed by Labour's "free movement must end" stance but what he says here makes sense, especially if we're not talking about a government who thinks net migration ought to be under 100k.
i feel sorry for the camera man having to walk backwards the entire time
Very impressed with what Keir had to say. He would be head and shoulders above Bungling (put some irrelevant Latin here) Boris and that has-been David Davis at the negotiating table.
I felt rather flat by the end Keir. People don't want to hear "Trust us with power and we'll get on with it." At least Tony Blair had a cue card you could read.
People have lost control because both main parties supported membership of the EU for nearly 50 years. People have had no choice in the matter. It's no wonder that so many of them came out to vote and Leave won. Leave voters were the most motivated as they had a point to prove, and had been suppressed and denied the opportunity to express themselves for so long.
You can bet that that strength of feeling amongst Leave voters will not be going away any time soon, no matter how many very real and dire warnings there are about the threat to the economy and jobs. People are prepared to take a massive hit to "take back control". They believe in themselves enough that, even if there is economic catastrophe, we can come out fighting, weather the storm and turn things around. There is literally nothing that will destroy that spirit.
Changed his tune didn’t he? Lol
Keir has a great understanding of things. He's great.
He either doesn't understand the single market or, more likely, he's lying.
I can imagine j.kenneth fraac has a greater grasp on Brexit than Knight of Her Majesty's Realm, Sir Keir Starmer, KBC, QC, award winning Barrister...
Not!
mysterywhiteboy72 - I agree. It's more likely that Starmer understands fine and is simply lying.
Please go and meet Peter Kyle, Labour MP for Hove & Portslade (in Brighton & Hove).
I wasn't sure when I fist saw more of Starmer when he rejoined the Shadow Cabinet, but he has really impressed me so far. I thoroughly decent, sharp and effective communicator. Better than any of the Tory opposite numbers for negotiating Brexit for sure!
Kier believes in ''collaboration and co-operation'' ..i think you will find every brexiteer feels the same apart from we want all the countries in europe to have their own identities instead of us all being the same....The EU IS NOT EUROPE!!!. They walk around being all casual and pally but there way of thinking will lead to way more problems. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to be British...ask any remoaner the names of any of the unelected beaurocrats in Brussels and they cant, says it all.
This has aged well 😂
It actually has
Legend says they are still walking about to this day, and forever will.
I was a Labour voter!!! The country voted to leave but he will not let it happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop pretending that we have all changed our minds!!!!!
No one's talking about Brexit on the doorstep.
Liar.
You _should_ interview your cat, for shits and giggles.
It's all very intriguing but where is Tom Watson? Deputy Leader? He's nowhere to be seen!
Inspirational interview.
Starmer needs to not wear suits so much, he looks far more normal here
His team will want him to look Prime Ministerial
Four years on...this is just TOO FUNNY!!! 😂😂😂
Is it your plan to make your video colours saturated again if Labour wins?
😂... this aged like milk.
Can I just say how much respect I have for Jones? I recently finished studying his book the Establishment and how they get away with it, for my sociology class. I've Finally found someone in politics who not only has similar beliefs to me but also someone in which I am to look up to and feel hopeful about the possibility of me achieving the same goals :) thanks Owen!
Why did he become what he did?
Hmm wheres he now?
Who knows?
Not sure who he had been talking too, especially up North, London different beast to the UK..
Anybody associated with continuity remain can’t be considered for leadership. Let alone deputy.
Keirs!!
"rarer outside london" umm no afraid not
I laughed at that bit too lmao! Just how far outside of London did he go? Chelmsford lol?
Knight of the Realm Millionaire Sir Keir Starmer was the best choice for Labour party leader...? 😂
#StrongAndStableMyArse
Best Bluddy Link of the day mate =D
Didn't manage it in 2017, might not manage it in 2019 - Owen...why on earth isn't Keir leader of the opposition?
He is
?
As a northerner this video just proves now much out of touch they are with the North...
And yes I’m aware this is a 2 year old video but after the election this video has quickly become very dated
Starmer and Thornberry have the looks, the calm and the smooth talk. I'd have them negotiate for Britain over Davis and Johnson any day.
SonOfFurzehatt why do looks matter lmfao. Shallow world, it is half the reason Corbyn gets personally attacked for looking like your mates sickly grandpa
Walker11 I know, you're right - looks shouldn't matter. But in a world where they do, having a good-looking negotiator is no bad thing.
SonOfFurzehatt fair enough I can't argue with that
Of course you would both remainers
@@Oakland510 Everything about you affects your messages.
The tone of your voice, the volume, your hairstyle.
If Theresa May wore her hair like The Young Ones, she'd obviously not make it anywhere near number 10.
It absolutely matters. Not that we should focus on looks. It's the whole package.
Have a look at some Notorious BIG documentaries. A lot was said about how his charm and charisma massively made up for his looks.
Newsflash - people often stop paying attention to fat ugly people. It's not nice, but it's true. Humans aren't computers.
Think of the uphill battle that a fatter, uglier, blacker Obama would have in his life and career. It's nasty, but it's society.
Following the election campaign from the outside, it seems like the Tories last hope of winning (I mean gaining majority or more seats than 2015) is their capability of "negotiating a brexit deal" (whatever that means). At the same time, their campaign seems really person-bound rather than focusing on the issues facing Britain.
Meanwhile, Labour's team for the Brexit negotiations seem like some really bright people, definitely compared to Johnson, Davis etc. Will the Tories loose the Brexit-negotiations-card as well before the election, and what will then remain of their campaign?
How come some peoples faces have been blurred and others haven't?
It's people who were definitely/could potentially have been under 18.
Brexit is one of the few areas where Owen Jones sounds like a sensible person
Starmer has had a slight promotion since this video.
He is now Labour LEADER. An excellent one in fact.
The "take back control' message should be pushed more by Labour. If those that voted Leave thought this was their reason then perhaps they could think about Labour wanting to take back control over many services and industries that the Tories have farmed out to foreigners. Labour want to take back control over the NHS, rail, mail etc so they benefit the majority of people in the UK rather than foreign investors and the mega rich in this country. The thought of the Tories 'taking back control' in an EU sense just means more bucks for them and their mates.
Owen, what do you think of Labour fielding 'paper candidates' in seats like Moray and Perth so the Tories have a better chance of beating the SNP? Good or bad?
It's truly inspiring to see the LGBGT man of the people in such intellectual synchronicity with the Ex head of the CPS Establishent bastion man of the people,inspiring that is, if you hope never to see Corbyn's Labour ,or it's acolytes anywhere near power.
Hi Owen! Bernie Sanders is coming to the UK - are you going to interview him?
Two raving Irons !!
Keir's an Arsenal fan. You're in the vicinity.
We need an Australian points system or something similar when it comes to immigration.
Hahaha - there was a Conservative advert before this video!
Keir Starma may be qualified but this video shows he can't negotiate.
He says it is stupid of the tories to say 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but in reality that is an excellent negotiating position. When i've bartered or sold in the past, what you're meant to do is offer a price, and then walk away if they don't agree because by doing so if makes the side you're negotiating with more likely to give you what you want as the two parties have a mutual on each other.
The EU position papers just published seem pretty reasonable. In a nutshell, we can continue to live where we are either side of the Channel with a minimum of paper work and cost plus we can continue to collaborate in EU projects providing we pay our share. Mrs M's assertion that its some kind of war with the EU 27 is scaremongering and very negative. But we have to come clean about movement of workers and retirees. Do we really want to isolate our people on these islands or give them the freedom to study, work or retire where they like?
I've been out canvassing for Labour in Cardiff Central. Brexit came up once and it was from a Remainer. Most people more concerned about other things
4:03 when real life gets in the way...
Certainly is Owen gone very quiet (for once)
oh no
Owen, what do you think's the best way to challenge people's worries about Labour economically? Doing so purely through facts usually doesn't work from my experience unfortunately
make a video about the election debates
It's really refreshing to hear Keir talk some sense about Brexit. Would love to see him set the UK on the right path out of the EU.
As a Lib dem, in a SNP seat that used to be Labour I'm voting for Corbyn's Labour. I believe that they are the party of the big two who can be trusted to get the best Brexit deal for us all.
I also wish Brexiters would stop saying it's only a deal with the EU. Due to our membership of the EU this is going to be more like a country starting from scratch if we follow Mays default no deal illogical talk. As we don't have trade deals with anywhere except via our EU card.
If we want maximum damage limitation the day after we stop being in the EU, is the day we fall into the single market as we have not triggered the exit from this. Then after while into the customs union. Thinking at every stage are we getting want and need, always progressing on terms that if we ever want to step back towards full EU membership the door is always open and can be processed almost as close to overnight on the will of the government of the day.