I bought my first Subaru ever after years of owning Toyotas. The biggest difference is the Forester fits my 6'3" frame better, and the AWD is first rate. However it's the dealership experience that makes the noticable difference. Subaru treats me like a Lexus dealership.
Absolutely amazing reviews! I’m impressed that someone actually took the time to critique the paint thickness and gap continuity. Keep up the good work
One of the best car reports hands down. I have never seen anyone verify the paint, and gaps before. Great interior review. The Subaru Forester is definitely a great, practical vehicle with hybrid numbers on the highway. The RAV4 EV is a great vehicle as well. There is a long waiting list to get one. Most go to British Colombia and Quebec that have numerous charging stations on street's, public parking, business, rest area's for EV's.
We are buying a Forester after test driving the CR-V and RAV4. The road feel and handling, the visibility, and the Powertrain and AWD cross compatibility with all models and the ease of maintenance are a mechanics and engineers dream I think.
To add to the meaning of the Subaru badge, it actually means collection/collaboration and it’s the Japanese name for the Pleiades cluster or the Seven Sisters, however the reason for only 6 stars is because six companies amalgamated to form Subaru. Thank you I’m here all week.
Either car is a superb choice. Both cars have great resale too. We purchased a 2007 Forester here in Australia for a staff member rather than a RAV4. He's delighted. Great cars.
At 75,000 miles my 2016 Subaru Forester started to leak oil. Engine had to be pulled out and re-sealed. This will be my last Subaru. My wife’s RAV4 has 115,000 miles and never had an issue.
Luck of the draw. My neighbor had a 2016 Prius. Prius, most reliable car in America. At 90,000 miles he had major engine problems and got rid of it. Another friend has an ' 05 Prius with almost 300,000 on it. Never a problem. The old story about, was it a Monday/Friday car or a mid week car?
I had similar issues with my first Subie I bought in 2012. The camshaft carrier started leaking oil at 110,000km. Needless to say, that was my last Subaru. I went back to Toyota.
We owns a RAV4 hybrid and 2 Subarus Ascent & Crosstrek Sport. We love all of them. Toyota gives 45+ miles per gallon (amazing) Crosstrek drive much better than any other small SUV. I agree 100%. The Subaru handling is second to non. Plus the seats comfort.
After owning a few Toyotas (RAV, Yaris, Corolla) in the last years I have just moved into Subaru...... Toyota is a very reliable brand but no regret so far with my Forester 2022.... David's review is so precise, I completely agree with it, the subbie is so smooth and pleasant to drive, I really enjoy it!
@@iskdude9922 Just bought a 2023 Crosstrek Sports trim. I would be very serious getting another 6-sp manual version if there's one. Test drove a 2.0 CVT base, a bit weak to me, the 6-sp manual was never available in my area of radius 50 miles about 5-6 dealerships.
@@theodorerinehart781 please display your facts behind that?. Reason being I haven’t seen anything like you have said. Now I only own one Subaru but other family, co workers that own one are over the 175000. They have no complaints. Ops well they have had to replace the battery, tires general maintenance, that must be only indigenous to Subaru problems I guess
My new Forester Touring model 2022, is so much better than my 2020 Forester Touring. At times it feels the same until you hit the gas. The engine is quieter and the CVT seems to shift better giving the car more speed on the acceleration of the car. I love how they’ve added Black to the current saddle brown Interior, doesn’t look like your sitting in a baseball glove. I had no oil issues or leaks on the 2020.
It does seem like the oil leak, oil burning, and CVT issues aren't as common as they used to be with Subaru. But it left enough of a bad taste in peoples' mouths that this newer model will still suffer guilt by association.
I am a claims administrator for the nations top 5 extended warranty companies, and I normally come on here to set the record straight when I see hogwash or blatant lies or ridiculous opinions. In this case, I can confirm that Subaru has worked hard to fix their engines You have the FB25D engine which is engineered to fix the issues of their previous generation with the addition of direct injection to help with power and emissions. Personally, I have not processed any claims on the FB25D at this time. Data does exist however. Oil consumption and carbon buildup are two areas for monitoring. They are likely related. Change your oil frequently. Do not run longer than 5k miles on an oil change no matter what the dealer or manual tells you. Use full synthetic oil and change your filter with a high quality oil filter. This oil change interval will keep carbon buildup and deposits to a minimum. Lastly, CVT problems are common on all Subaru's. Once again, no matter what anyone says, change your CVT fluid every 30-40k miles. CVT's in general are not forgiving to heat and Subaru's are of a poor design which allow them to heat up to well past 225 degrees in normal operation. Fluids simply are not designed to withstand heat and have longevity. Hope this helps.
I'd like to point out that the Rav4 apples to apples is quit a bit more expensive. I would be more interested to see a rav4 non hybrid or no Prime compared to the Subaru Forester. Since the Prime and hybrid have an unfair advantage we should be comparing the two non-hybrid models. I may be a little bias now but I just picked up a full load limited Subaru forester yesterday after nearly buying a Rav4 Hybrid. I do a lot of highway driving and that made the hybrid only 4 mpg better on the highway and what tipped me was the overall value and the safety difference was huge when shopping for insurance. In my case the Subaru Forester was $105 per month less to insure than the Rav4 hybrid and I have a perfect driving record and am a professional driver for work. All that said I was able to get a full load Limited Subaru Forester for about the same price as the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid base model with the $815 weather package. One notable thing to know is that only the Rav4 Prime is made in Japan and the rest of the Rav4s are made in the USA (Kentucky I believe) and the Subaru is made in Japan. This could make a substantial difference in quality. This Subaru forester is insane with tech and safety features. It really did blow my mind. There is far too much to list so if you are interested, I would encourage you to watch a video on it. In the end, the Subaru Forester is a better value from what I experienced. Hope this helps with your decision.
Indeed the subbie overall is kicksss but sadly both subbie and Toyota have been making ftard moves esp lately shit like months fee to have remote start and forced such to buy an otherwise superior trim model I told em flat out fukoff I will happily hack such and not just got myself the vs nickel n dining shit must be stomped out hard NOW
@@kindanyume The monthly fees are exploitation. I had to return a treadmill I purchased and painstakingly put together only to discover I had to sign up for a monthly subscription in order to just turn it on. If I was in congress, this would be one of my priorities. To punish false advertising and anything that is exploiting the American people.
Indeed. Subie is kickass. It's irrelevent but my dad got quoted for a non-option Rav4 XLE as 44k OTD (10k markup included. CA car price is ridiculous) and 40.5k OTD for Outback with full option. My dad has a problem with his shoulder socket joint and muscle so power liftgate is a must. 44k rav4 with no power liftgate and 40.5k for almost full option Outback. Obviously, we went with the outback. Best choice ever.
@@taysungpro90 California is a crap hole. Any other state they charge MSRP only. I got my 2022 Forester Limited for under $35k and I paid MSRP as it was the ONLY one in my state and the 4 adjoining states.
Very impressive review, you went into great detail. I always check the panel gaps with my finger, and I did notice that the Forester's side cowls were lower giving you a more upright outward view. I drove both the RAV4 and Forester (Wilderness) before buying the SFW. I have had it a month now and completed one 400 mile road trip, so please allow me to make one key observation. The split screen is pure genius. The small upper screen gives you multiple bits of information at a glance. It is like a quick reference guide, giving you only what you need to know. I predict that the rest of the auto industry (including luxury brands) will follow Subaru's lead on this. Now for my owners MPG report. On my trip with a mix of 70 highway 30 city I got 25.3 mpg.
@@dianas514 If I remember it was about a month. I wanted it in green, so it was a little longer wait. I am very happy with it. The SFW was the smart choice and best bang for the buck ( reverse auto braking, eyesight/ cross traffic/ blind spot, and a full size spare too! The Wilderness trim was the deciding factor over the RAV4. I just had to have it 😊 BTW I finally got the factory tow hitch installed by the dealer last week. It was well worth the long wait. Go with the factory hitch, not an aftermarket one. Bike rack now mounted 🚲🙌👍
@@beaglesinthesun Your SFW sounds awesome. I’m definitely going for the SFW and will be getting a factory hitch for my bike rack. I check the Subaru website daily hoping the 2023s Foresters will be released. Would love to have before the end of the year. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻. We’ll see. Enjoy your SFW.
Thank you for doing this review, one of the best I've seen. I hope you will compare the Forester hybrid with the Rav 4 models when it is available (as it is rumoured to be). I have a 1999 Forester, and it's still going strong , with the odd age related part replacement needed - your description of "an old friend" is absolutely spot on. The only thing I don't love is the fuel economy. It is going to be hard to part with. (I have been waiting for a hybrid to appear.) I would also really appreciate an episode on regular vs hybrid vs plug in and how you know which are really suitable for you. I have heard, for example, hybrids must be driven a certain amount per year and have extra filters that need changing where the batteries are vented. Just because a new technology exists, doesn't mean it is the correct fit for everyone. Many thanks for your kind attention.
I had two Foresters and loved them. When I went to trade for another, my local dealership offered a ridiculous trade-in on my top-of-the-line Subaru. Toyota offered 50% more on the trade as well as the same discount from the sticker price that I had expected from Subaru. I love my RAV4, and my mechanic says it will last almost forever.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 Only Japanese Built Toyotas last longer, the U.S. built ones are no better than any other U.S. car. This is from my family’s experience of Buying Toyotas since 1971.
@@martinr8278 evidently. Only in a fantasy world would anyone think a Subaru is anywhere close to the reliability of a Toyota. That’s crack-pipe talk from those fools.
I just purchased a SUBIE, made in Japan. I have reviewed it against Rav 4, Skoda Kaoqia, Peugeot 3008. SUBIE is one notch above the rest, Skoda is a close 2nd.
Thanks so much for this interesting review David. I am surprised with your comments on Subaru, very positive, . I think trying hard to improve there cars.
Very true!! They hired a new quality control person, not sure what his title is or background is, but there recalls are down significantly since his hire.
PS, I don’t want to hear about the cvt. I have driven them for years and never had one issue. Pushed them hard. In fact our new 22’ Forester Sport has improved. Never mind the new front end .. awesome !
Excellent review of two vehicles I'm interested in. I had the 2009, 2 litre diesel subaru legacy for 10 years before the crankshaft sheared on it but the car was bullet proof, fun to drive and very reliable so I know what Subaru are like. I'm waiting for the next one to come out in 2024, I believe it will have a better hybrid than the current 2l petrol/hybrid than we currently have in Ireland. I've read before, that it may have a hybrid as good as Toyotas. I'll be keeping an eye on your review of the new model when it comes out!
This is a great review. And very informative. I also appreciate the transparency. As a RAV driver, you're still able to look at both vehicles in a fair and unbiased manner. As a long time Toyota driver myself, I agree that you just can't go wrong with the brand. This is why looking at Subaru for the first time has me at once excited, but also a little hesitant. I know if I go with the RAV I will have that bulletproof brand in Toyota. But while the RAV will have that automatic reliability, there are other things it just doesn't provide. For me, at 6'3, the RAV feels too compact. It's too closed in and just doesn't give me the space that the Forester does. I can see your observations on how it the RAV has a little more interior refinement and luxury and the drive is equally solid. But I really like how the Subaru drives too. It handles very well for what I need. You make a good point about the over-the-dash visibility possibly being intruded upon by that second screen in the Subaru. I never thought about that. And a good point. However, when you hopped in the RAV, that is a massive infotainment screen which also juts up and would definitely pull my focus as well. Maybe even more than the Subaru. So the question is do I risk the reliability for comfort? It certainly doesn't sound like buying into a Subaru is going to be an automatic snake pit of one repair after the next based on your review here. The Subaru's CVT engine clearly won't be as well-embraced as the engine in the RAV. Most car reviewers agree on that. But they also say the CVT isn't awful anymore either. Subaru has worked with it and refined it a bit. Still, it's always a risk to move into something different. Especially when what you're moving away from is so reliable. I could size up to a Highlander, but I just don't like them all that much. And the 4-Runner is just a little too much car for me, with really bad mpg numbers. I'm leaning toward the Subaru. Thanks for the great and honest review.
Agree with Merdad, I am in my 4 Subaru after Toyota forever. I honestly don’t see any reliable difference. Even our Ascent which people call it the black cheep of the family. It will be 4 years with us in less than a month. It did have a CVT recall (it was all about software). We drove to Ca and back to Fl. Zero issues. My first Subaru was a 2012 Outback which my daughter inherited. It’s still running with over 270,000 miles. Never touch the CVT. I really love the Toyotas what I really hate about the new Toyota’s is their seat comfort. I had two Hybrid Camry. Super reliable but, the seating was painful. We still own an old 2009 Venza. We will never sell it. Sooooo reliable and the seats are extremely comfortable.
I’m feeling like you are, as a long time Toyota and Lexus driver and loyalist. I’m going for the Subaru Forester for safety, comfort (the rav and venza are too crunched- I hit my head getting in but Highlander is too big for me). I just think Subaru has a great car, and with some shared technologies with Toyota as a company, I feel comfortable doing so. I’m sad to go from a hybrid (have a Prius but need height clearance being back in Midwest, plus I’m in snow belt) to a non-hybrid gas car (which was my hesitance), but the Subaru drives so well and has a nicer experience to me than the Toyota lineup or Honda CR-V. You bet I will upgrade excitedly when we get that electric forester of my dreams. 😂 I’m fully leaning into my Subaru love and excitement for what it to come, but welcome to being one of many Toyota drivers feeling the same!!
@@M.R.1525 Your comment is a Gem! Thanks for sharing the useful tips. I actually saved your comment in my phone notepad😅. Will take it as a reference. Thanks. I was in a dilemma over choosing between the two and the though i was inclined more towards Subaru, I wasnt sure about the reliability as a long term vehicle like the miles you have mentioned and compared to Toyota as a brand. Subaru is a clear win for me and will be taking 2023 Subaru Forester wilderness. Thanks
Great fair comparison ,both great SUVs.Our 2016 Rav4 has been very enjoyable & reliable & can see advantages of Rav4 prime plug in hybrid. Wait in Canada for one is over a great so will keep driving our gas Rav4 for awhile. Cheers
The Rav4 is a much more expensive model. It would have been a better review to compare two similarly-priced models, not one that is nearly twice as expensive as the other.
What really has me looking more at Subarus is their ground clearance and better capabilities on unpaved roads/trails. I still believe that a Toyota will last longer though.
@@nickgee388 Yeah, but the symmetrical AWD make it worth it. Real AWD rather than slip and grip. Plus the aforementioned ground clearance. These are places where there is no room for compromise if you really need AWD, rather than just say you have it!
@@alansach8437 That is absolutely false. Subaru awd isn't any more real than anyone else. Has a clutch pack that constantly sends power to the front and adjusts power to the rear as needed. Just like everyone else. In fact, Subaru awd systems are arguably worse than many of its rivals. CVT severely limits initial torque to prevent damage. A regular automatic does so in a much less noticeable manner. Other rivals have locking rear differentials and the availability of a low range. Subaru does not. You're right. There is no compromise. Subaru awd is outperformed by others. Jeep Cherokee, Ford Bronco Sport, Mitsubishi Outlander just to name a few. Subaru marketing is phenomenal though. They've really got people believing their systems are spectacular. When in fact its been outperformed on numerous YT channels countless times.
how well do Subaru CVT's hold up long term? Long term meaning 10 years plus. Really long term would be comparable to my 24 yr old CRV that has only had trans fluid done with no issues. Will they hold up with regular basic maintenance such as that? or more complex?
David will you review the new Mazda CX50. Same proven drive train as most Mazdas but built in a new factory with new workers. I'm deciding between the CX5 and the new CX50.
David I would like to see your 'Comparison' of the Japanese vs Canadian vs American RAV4 build Quality. We recently acquired a 2022 RAV4 Limited Hybrid however, we had to settle for an American Built one. I would of at least like to have received the Canadian build over the American build. However, we waited 6 months for our Hybrid as it is so in many ways we are very grateful. Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce these videos....
As an Industrial Engineer with a Black Belt certification, I LOVE other engineers who pay attention to assembly margins and paint tolerances! 😍 👍 it’s much more important than people realize. I can also confirm that a car made in Japan is preferable to one base in the US or Canada. The Japanese are obsessed with zero variances and pursue perfection and processes under complete control. I love the RAV4 Prime but it’s the price is higher than I wanted to pay for a car. I’ve tested it and it’s a dream to drive.
The comparison is so unfair because the RAV4 Prime costs almost twice as much as the Forester, especially with all the dealer markups due to a shortage of supply of RAV4 Primes.
Had a 2006 Forester and it was as nimble as a cat. Never drove anything quite comparable. I can just imagine what driving a 2022 model might feel like. Thinking that I might just go out and get me one.
The funny thing us the fxt is as sloppy as I could ever tolerate and my wife's out handles most american pos cars easily while getting better mileage and benefits of suv body (life long true sports car driver and racer here btw)
I almost bought the Forrester but the dealer, and resulting service, was about 40 miles away from our house. The Toyota dealer is a mile away so we ended up with the RAV4. No complaints on the purchase.
LoL I agree with everything you said about the cars. Wow. By the way my dealer wanted to pay me $25k to take back my 2019 forester after 3yrs 17k miles. I paid $27k in Oct 2018
Hi Dave! Depending on the colour of the car, do car manufacturers sometimes vary in paint thickness & quality? So would this dark green Forester just happen to have thinner paint compared to same Forester model but say in white or silver? 🤷♀️🧐
I own a 2017 Subaru Forester XT myself. We did cross shop out with the last generation Rav4 but didn't like the cabin and driving feel of the Rav4. Plus Subaru AWD is a full-time AWD vs Rav4 front wheel drive bias AWD. Test drove a 2021 Rav4 Prime and I notice there's a lot of vibration when the engine is in charge mode.
I’ve read newer Subarus are also front wheel drive biased AWD however I perceive them to have a stronger AWD system than other transversal-engine AWD’s. Subaru spends a lot of $ marketing their “Symmetrical AWD”
Subaru is front drive biased 60/40 split for all cvt models. It has a clutch pack and can differentiate the torque based upon the system need. Every awd vehicle currently made in North America has a similar set up. There's nothing stronger, more robust, more powerful, or any other ridiculous word to describe Subaru's awd system. Symmetrical simply means the driveshaft is mounted directly in the center of the vehicle behind the boxer engine. Symmetrical provides absolutely no benefit that modern computers and programming can't surpass. However, 10-20 years ago, it was superb at distributing torque evenly that unsymmetrical setups had difficulty competing with.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 Yes, Subaru CVT AWD are 60/40, but if you ever drive on icey road with a Rav4 next to you. You'll see the difference. Rav4 are FWD biased AWD as in the rear wheel only get power on damand, which mean you have to spin your front wheel for a bit before any power gets back to the rear wheel. While Subaru offer 40% power to the rear wheel all the time no matter the road conditions. So in that aspect, it's already better than the Rav4 AWD.
@AutomotivePress I would love your thoughts on the Rav4 Hybrid vs the Forester. I'm looking at 2023 versions of both. If you know what kind of mileage you are getting with your Rav4 Hybrid, I'd be very interested in knowing that. Also any thoughts regarding expected reliability over the long haul (8+ years) for both the Forester and Rav4 Hybrid. Thanks!
Larry Kosilla from Ammo NYC has said that Subaru has some of the best paint in the industry. They are up there with Porsche, and WAAAY better than most cars that cost 2-3x more
I have a 2015 Honda Civic and planning to upgrade and try out a different car brand in a couple years! Ive been checking out Subarus, Mazda and Toyota🎉
I am a certified mechanic for close to 50 years. CVT is a gearless transmission and is the only automatic transmission that Subaru has been using since 1989. They are lightweight and more efficient to help the manufacturers achieve gas mileage standards set by the government. Other car makers like Nissan have been a disaster with their belt driven CVTs. But Subaru has a chain driven system and has no intention of going back to conventional transmissions. As long as you dont overwork them by towing heavy trailers or beating them up offroad you should have no problems.
This two complete different suv. Can you review please Forester vs gas RAV4? That would be fair. Prime is so overpriced for very few miles in electric mode. No, thanks for Prime I would go hybrid. But better if they will ever make Toyota’s hybrid system in outback body. They making EV together, I think a lot more people would appreciate to have Forester or Outback made with Toyota hybrid system
It's good question but honestly, I think anything can change. All the companies are waiting to see what happens with the EV situation and will likely shift their strategy accordingly. Since Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, their strategic direction has to also align with Toyota's, so things aren't so simple anymore for Subaru. They do have a Crosstrek hybrid though... and I'm sure that Forester will get electrified soon.
Having worked for various car makers over the years, I have noticed that any first generation new models have taken most carmakers 3 to 5 years of recalls for serious problems to be resolved. The consumers are basically the crash dummies for anything new on the market. Toyota however, is the only company that I have seen who gets most things right, followed by Subaru. Toyota for example got their hybrid cars right the first time with the Prius. The difference is these 2 companies have the consumer in mind. They want to make cars that will last 20 years so you can hand them down to family members and make you a lifetime customer. Most other carmakers build things to only last until the warranty expires and throw it away. They care about their CEOs and end of the year bonuses more than their customers. Look under the hood of any Toyota or Subaru and you will see top quality electronic parts made by top companies like Nippondenso, Hitachi, etc. while other carmakers are using vendors from the cheapest sources available with the cheapest labor markets. Even the quality of the steel is noticable. Toyota and Subaru use top quality steel and rustproof the entire chassis during assembly. They safety coat brake and fuel lines as well. I keep very busy replacing brake lines that rust away prematurely but I wonder how many lives were lost by engineering that puts profits over principal. Subaru has customer loyalty with their affordable AWD system and boxer engine and they dont want to change what works. Same thing with Toyota regarding the Camry and Corolla. It would be business suicide to stop making your top selling products that everyone wants. As far as electric cars, I dont believe it's the answer yet as nationwide charging networks will be needed and like everything else, prices will come down once perfected and plentiful. It's too experimental and expensive right now.
There isn’t even a question .. the quality, safety and all wheel drive ability of the Subaru and far superior. Whether snow or rain, they are amazing. Function and materials quality is way above Toyota. Plus the Forester will definitely have better resale. They don’t fleet sell them to rental car companies for starters. This helps value for Suburu. Also, Subaru actually gives back to a cause you pick .. what more do you want ?
Not too mention that Subaru has state of the art factories that are environmentally responsible. Subaru is the only car that has all the wheels directly connected to the transmission without the use of a transfer case, thus making it the most effective vehicle for traction in the snow. No other vehicle even comes close. And the affordable price for AWD blows away the competition unless of course you purchase the fully loaded maxed out models. As a technician I strongly recommend Subaru or Toyota as the top 2 carmakers. I do not recommend overspending for turbocharged versions which can place a lot more stress and wear on mechanical parts and shorten life expectancy. Keep up with regular maintenance like oil changes and keep the antifreeze clean once every bv 3 years and the boxer engines will run forever
I own a Subaru Forester Sport which has about 800 miles on it. As much as I love the look of the car I have had to call roadside assistance four times for a dead battery. There is so much stuff on this model that the battery is not heavy duty enough to maintain all the electronics. I contacted the dealer and they told me to continue calling roadside assistance. You cannot run a Lear jet on a flashlight battery. I’m not a fan of Toyota but have had great success with twenty years of Honda. The reason I didn’t get another one is because the body styles didn’t change enough from 2017. I would steer away from the Subaru altogether. You get zero customer service. The world sure changes when you are no longer twenty and blonde.
Excellent review, both are really nice vehicles , I would probably purchase the Subaru. I think for 2023 will will see a power boost,that’s all it really needs
After test driving damn near every vehicle in existance the Prime was an easy choice...if I can get one that is. My only gripe is the head unit which I would swap out for an all touchscreen aftermarket unit that looks better has more features and more power output to speakers. I never liked Toyota but the Ptime made me a fan! Supposedly one is coming this week for me and I only had to wait a month so 🤞
A family friend of mine who is a mechanic says to avoid Subarus because of their gaskets always go bad and is very expensive to fix. I guess he gets a lot of those issues in his shop.
I would like to see the stopping distance test and also more info on how the brake paddle and accelerater paddle feels. This makes a huge difference in comfort in the long run but it's normally not included in vehicle comparisons. I had a 2020 Corolla and all controls felt really good and not cheap as one would think. Even the SE model that I had drove over railway crossing really well absorbing the bumps.
I traded off my 2019 Corolla XSE hatchback for a 2021 WRX. The Corolla is well designed inside but that’s it. The car looks like it would be quick or peppy but it wasn’t. The safety features were cool but I found myself disabling or not using any of them. I probably won’t buy anything other than a Subaru from now on. Hands down a better ride and more exhilarating.
I have both these cars. I also have a ford, a bmw, an audi, a couple mazdas, a couple vw's, a holden, a jaguar and a lexus. Overall they are good cars 👍
Subaru's logo is based on the constellation Pleades which represents the five groups who continued the company's legacy and the bigger star is the founder Mr. Chikuhei
I have a 2017 Rav 4, Toyota long term reliability is the best there is. My siblings have owned Subarus, both have engines with oil consumption issues. The non turbo 4 cyl in my Rav 4 will easily go 200k miles with routine maintenance. The Subaru’s had to have engines replaced. Subaru is very innovative just don’t have the resources Toyota has and cut corners.
We have a 2014 XT version.. and overall it's been very good. However the common issue with one insert on left edge of driver sear cracking (and same on passenger only much longer into the life) was NOT impressive esp given teh price class.. I would have accepted that as a common issue and been fine if Subaru Canada had issued a recall and fixed it.. but not only did they fail on that their extended warranty does NOT cover that. The would cover replacing the entire $1000+ seat etc if something failed in the electrical parts.. but wouldn't even offer a simple repair of the one panel which according to 2 shops I asked that deal with such.. they could have had done for the particular model (only one model and trim had this issue) probably $200 or less w/labor.. just by developing a simple panel replacement whith a overlay and quick stitching Now that said.. the fact they failed to offer this with a true manual was it's biggest downfall.. IMO But that said the CVT in the XT is heavier built and does its job quite well. and thankfully NO IDIOT HYBRID that only jacks up costs and is a guaranteed major expense down the road
Nonsense. Hybrids are arguably making cars last longer due to reduced wear on engines. Many, many Toyota hybrids are used as taxis for example and hitting 500k miles no problem.
U need to look at the stats and big poc only 1 hybrid so far to get to market was even done right re reliability ffs the rest continue to loose money esp for dolts buying em
Does anyone know which CVT transmission Subaru uses (made, brand)? I prefer Subaru Outback. And no, I don't own either Subaru or Rav 4. Just wondering about my future car choice. Right now I am fine with my 4 Runner...
David, I suspect few people have more respect than I do for the 'sensible shoes' approach Subaru brings to their designs where visibility, practicality and function generally reign supreme. Having said that, it has been two decades since Toyota took a major stake in Fuji Heavy Industries and I cannot understand why a small company like Subaru still relies on their own comparatively minor development resources. I highlight this concern because Subaru has NEVER matched the long term QDR and lifespan Toyota products routinely achieve. Perhaps the whole industry is moving to electric powertrains in the next few years but I simply do not understand why Subaru has continued to design separate engines, transmission etc after all these years. 🤔
Great question Mike. At the end of the day, Toyota still only owns 20% of Subaru, so Subaru has a lot of freedom to do what they want (for now). The issue of QDR is more complicated, since it depends a lot on where they are made. The Japanese made Subaru's have been reasonably good but yes it's difficult to catch up to Toyota. At some point, I would assume that more and more collabs will happen between Subaru and Toyota and so the developmental work will align together.
@@AutomotivePress David, As ever, you are very diplomatic in your considered, professional response. Let me put it this way, I am sure we all noticed the new electric twins from Toyota and Subaru do not have horizontally opposed, 'boxer' electric motors 😉
The Forester needs to be brought up in power to at least 215-220 hp. Imagine if it had 6 cylinders and a true gear transmission.. That would be amazing!
As someone who just purchased a forester and considered a rav 4 I can hands down say I feel like I made the right choice. The rav 4 was 4th on my list behind the Honda crv and the Mazda cx5 but none of them could offer the all wheel drive capabilities of the Subaru. They all have cheap peg leg systems that aren’t as safe and as someone who has to deal with snow regularly that was a determining factor for me. If you want technology go with the Honda or the Mazda. If you want longevity get the Toyota. If you want safety and reliability nothing compares to Subaru. The Toyota felt cheap I’m. It really sure how else to explain it.
Had a 2919 Subaru Forester and at14000 miles it had a “sudden, unexpected, acceleration “ issue crashing resulting in a crash into a concrete block wall totaling the car . The manufacture date was Sept 2018
Coincidence, this puts it right up there with previous Toyota Rav 4's, hopefully one day in the far distant future we will find out what is causing this, the manufacturer sure won't tell us.
I had same with a 2016. Was braking going into a parking space and it suddenly accelerated. Luckily no one hurt but also totaled. Torque magazine identified a class action suit for 2015-2019 related to a fuel pump malfunction. There was a recall for some outback’s and other models but not forester yet.
I am concerned some about the boxer engine and oil leaks. We just traded our Forester for the Rav4 Prime. I prefer the Rav4 Prime, my wife favors the Subaru a little. They are both nice cars and the Subaru served us well.
it was only a few years, 12-14, the rings were not the correct size. I bought a 12 not knowing this and it failed the leak test and was out of the 10 year warranty but my local dealer replace the short block for 1800 and picked up the 4000 and put in spark plugs for free so I am good for another 100K. subaru america really went to bat for me. I am more shocked in 12 they still only had a 4 speed auto, everybody is 5+ going back 10 years prior so I only get 23 which is poor for a 4 cyl lightweight car.
I bought my first Subaru ever after years of owning Toyotas. The biggest difference is the Forester fits my 6'3" frame better, and the AWD is first rate. However it's the dealership experience that makes the noticable difference. Subaru treats me like a Lexus dealership.
Absolutely amazing reviews! I’m impressed that someone actually took the time to critique the paint thickness and gap continuity. Keep up the good work
I'm a bit of an analytical person, and this is exactly the kind of car reviewing I've always been hoping to find - keep it up!
Thank you!
One of the best car reports hands down. I have never seen anyone verify the paint, and gaps before. Great interior review. The Subaru Forester is definitely a great, practical vehicle with hybrid numbers on the highway. The RAV4 EV is a great vehicle as well. There is a long waiting list to get one. Most go to British Colombia and Quebec that have numerous charging stations on street's, public parking, business, rest area's for EV's.
Glad you enjoyed it!
We are buying a Forester after test driving the CR-V and RAV4. The road feel and handling, the visibility, and the Powertrain and AWD cross compatibility with all models and the ease of maintenance are a mechanics and engineers dream I think.
To add to the meaning of the Subaru badge, it actually means collection/collaboration and it’s the Japanese name for the Pleiades cluster or the Seven Sisters, however the reason for only 6 stars is because six companies amalgamated to form Subaru. Thank you I’m here all week.
Damn this guys been gone for 51 weeks
Either car is a superb choice. Both cars have great resale too. We purchased a 2007 Forester here in Australia for a staff member rather than a RAV4. He's delighted. Great cars.
I just found your videos, and I am overwhelmed for the amount of great content you give, thank you so much for sharing!!
You are so welcome and thank you!
At 75,000 miles my 2016 Subaru Forester started to leak oil. Engine had to be pulled out and re-sealed. This will be my last Subaru. My wife’s RAV4 has 115,000 miles and never had an issue.
I had the same problem with my Outback, it is a well known illnes with Subaru
Luck of the draw. My neighbor had a 2016 Prius. Prius, most reliable car in America. At 90,000 miles he had major engine problems and got rid of it. Another friend has an ' 05 Prius with almost 300,000 on it. Never a problem. The old story about, was it a Monday/Friday car or a mid week car?
I had similar issues with my first Subie I bought in 2012. The camshaft carrier started leaking oil at 110,000km. Needless to say, that was my last Subaru. I went back to Toyota.
Toyota no 1 in Japan ..Visited Toyota cityJapan and assembly line.
2016 to 2018 forester is the worst in terms of reliability.
2019 sk model is better
We owns a RAV4 hybrid and 2 Subarus Ascent & Crosstrek Sport. We love all of them. Toyota gives 45+ miles per gallon (amazing) Crosstrek drive much better than any other small SUV. I agree 100%. The Subaru handling is second to non. Plus the seats comfort.
We just love our subies up north, in deep snow winters.
How about compared to Acura?
@@fmartin59 , Acura is luxurious car, you don’t compare between popular car and luxurious car.
After owning a few Toyotas (RAV, Yaris, Corolla) in the last years I have just moved into Subaru...... Toyota is a very reliable brand but no regret so far with my Forester 2022.... David's review is so precise, I completely agree with it,
the subbie is so smooth and pleasant to drive, I really enjoy it!
Subaru reliability deteriorates rapidly after 100K miles. I agree that a Subaru is much more fun to drive than a Rav 4
@@M.R.1525 Subaru rarely make manuals anymore though
@@iskdude9922 Just bought a 2023 Crosstrek Sports trim. I would be very serious getting another 6-sp manual version if there's one. Test drove a 2.0 CVT base, a bit weak to me, the 6-sp manual was never available in my area of radius 50 miles about 5-6 dealerships.
You got a phenomenal suv. Viva Subaru Wise choice
@@theodorerinehart781 please display your facts behind that?. Reason being I haven’t seen anything like you have said. Now I only own one Subaru but other family, co workers that own one are over the 175000. They have no complaints. Ops well they have had to replace the battery, tires general maintenance, that must be only indigenous to Subaru problems I guess
My new Forester Touring model 2022, is so much better than my 2020 Forester Touring. At times it feels the same until you hit the gas. The engine is quieter and the CVT seems to shift better giving the car more speed on the acceleration of the car. I love how they’ve added Black to the current saddle brown Interior, doesn’t look like your sitting in a baseball glove.
I had no oil issues or leaks on the 2020.
It does seem like the oil leak, oil burning, and CVT issues aren't as common as they used to be with Subaru. But it left enough of a bad taste in peoples' mouths that this newer model will still suffer guilt by association.
I am a claims administrator for the nations top 5 extended warranty companies, and I normally come on here to set the record straight when I see hogwash or blatant lies or ridiculous opinions. In this case, I can confirm that Subaru has worked hard to fix their engines You have the FB25D engine which is engineered to fix the issues of their previous generation with the addition of direct injection to help with power and emissions. Personally, I have not processed any claims on the FB25D at this time. Data does exist however. Oil consumption and carbon buildup are two areas for monitoring. They are likely related. Change your oil frequently. Do not run longer than 5k miles on an oil change no matter what the dealer or manual tells you. Use full synthetic oil and change your filter with a high quality oil filter. This oil change interval will keep carbon buildup and deposits to a minimum. Lastly, CVT problems are common on all Subaru's. Once again, no matter what anyone says, change your CVT fluid every 30-40k miles. CVT's in general are not forgiving to heat and Subaru's are of a poor design which allow them to heat up to well past 225 degrees in normal operation. Fluids simply are not designed to withstand heat and have longevity. Hope this helps.
What is the actual fuel consumption? Litres per 100km?
That Forrester is gorgeous, would be my pick, the RAV Prime is too expensive for my pocketbook, but maybe in the cards someday hopefully!...Great Vid!
Thank you. This was a most useful review and comparison of these two vehicles.
I'd like to point out that the Rav4 apples to apples is quit a bit more expensive. I would be more interested to see a rav4 non hybrid or no Prime compared to the Subaru Forester. Since the Prime and hybrid have an unfair advantage we should be comparing the two non-hybrid models. I may be a little bias now but I just picked up a full load limited Subaru forester yesterday after nearly buying a Rav4 Hybrid. I do a lot of highway driving and that made the hybrid only 4 mpg better on the highway and what tipped me was the overall value and the safety difference was huge when shopping for insurance. In my case the Subaru Forester was $105 per month less to insure than the Rav4 hybrid and I have a perfect driving record and am a professional driver for work. All that said I was able to get a full load Limited Subaru Forester for about the same price as the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid base model with the $815 weather package. One notable thing to know is that only the Rav4 Prime is made in Japan and the rest of the Rav4s are made in the USA (Kentucky I believe) and the Subaru is made in Japan. This could make a substantial difference in quality. This Subaru forester is insane with tech and safety features. It really did blow my mind. There is far too much to list so if you are interested, I would encourage you to watch a video on it. In the end, the Subaru Forester is a better value from what I experienced. Hope this helps with your decision.
Indeed the subbie overall is kicksss but sadly both subbie and Toyota have been making ftard moves esp lately shit like months fee to have remote start and forced such to buy an otherwise superior trim model
I told em flat out fukoff I will happily hack such and not just got myself the vs nickel n dining shit must be stomped out hard NOW
@@kindanyume The monthly fees are exploitation. I had to return a treadmill I purchased and painstakingly put together only to discover I had to sign up for a monthly subscription in order to just turn it on. If I was in congress, this would be one of my priorities. To punish false advertising and anything that is exploiting the American people.
Indeed. Subie is kickass. It's irrelevent but my dad got quoted for a non-option Rav4 XLE as 44k OTD (10k markup included. CA car price is ridiculous) and 40.5k OTD for Outback with full option. My dad has a problem with his shoulder socket joint and muscle so power liftgate is a must. 44k rav4 with no power liftgate and 40.5k for almost full option Outback. Obviously, we went with the outback. Best choice ever.
@@taysungpro90 California is a crap hole. Any other state they charge MSRP only. I got my 2022 Forester Limited for under $35k and I paid MSRP as it was the ONLY one in my state and the 4 adjoining states.
Rock on subaru wins!
Very impressive review, you went into great detail. I always check the panel gaps with my finger, and I did notice that the Forester's side cowls were lower giving you a more upright outward view. I drove both the RAV4 and Forester (Wilderness) before buying the SFW. I have had it a month now and completed one 400 mile road trip, so please allow me to make one key observation. The split screen is pure genius. The small upper screen gives you multiple bits of information at a glance. It is like a quick reference guide, giving you only what you need to know. I predict that the rest of the auto industry (including luxury brands) will follow Subaru's lead on this. Now for my owners MPG report. On my trip with a mix of 70 highway 30 city I got 25.3 mpg.
Nice write up. What was timeframe between order and delivery?
@@dianas514 If I remember it was about a month. I wanted it in green, so it was a little longer wait. I am very happy with it. The SFW was the smart choice and best bang for the buck ( reverse auto braking, eyesight/ cross traffic/ blind spot, and a full size spare too! The Wilderness trim was the deciding factor over the RAV4. I just had to have it 😊 BTW I finally got the factory tow hitch installed by the dealer last week. It was well worth the long wait. Go with the factory hitch, not an aftermarket one. Bike rack now mounted 🚲🙌👍
@@beaglesinthesun Your SFW sounds awesome. I’m definitely going for the SFW and will be getting a factory hitch for my bike rack. I check the Subaru website daily hoping the 2023s Foresters will be released. Would love to have before the end of the year. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻. We’ll see. Enjoy your SFW.
Thank you for doing this review, one of the best I've seen. I hope you will compare the Forester hybrid with the Rav 4 models when it is available (as it is rumoured to be). I have a 1999 Forester, and it's still going strong , with the odd age related part replacement needed - your description of "an old friend" is absolutely spot on. The only thing I don't love is the fuel economy. It is going to be hard to part with. (I have been waiting for a hybrid to appear.)
I would also really appreciate an episode on regular vs hybrid vs plug in and how you know which are really suitable for you. I have heard, for example, hybrids must be driven a certain amount per year and have extra filters that need changing where the batteries are vented. Just because a new technology exists, doesn't mean it is the correct fit for everyone.
Many thanks for your kind attention.
I had two Foresters and loved them. When I went to trade for another, my local dealership offered a ridiculous trade-in on my top-of-the-line Subaru. Toyota offered 50% more on the trade as well as the same discount from the sticker price that I had expected from Subaru. I love my RAV4, and my mechanic says it will last almost forever.
@Luke Sales I want what you’re smoking. Toyota will last twice as long as a Subaru. Subaru is garbage for long term reliability.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 Only Japanese Built Toyotas last longer, the U.S. built ones are no better than any other U.S. car. This is from my family’s experience of Buying Toyotas since 1971.
@@cargueone1971 time will tell. Currently own a Toyota Tundra and my wife owns a Toyota Sequoia, both American manufactured.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 you must be living in a fantasy world
@@martinr8278 evidently. Only in a fantasy world would anyone think a Subaru is anywhere close to the reliability of a Toyota. That’s crack-pipe talk from those fools.
how much electricity did your bill go up with the toyota? what is the cost to replace the battery after say 10 years?
I just purchased a SUBIE, made in Japan.
I have reviewed it against Rav 4, Skoda Kaoqia, Peugeot 3008.
SUBIE is one notch above the rest, Skoda is a close 2nd.
Excellent job. This is an engineer talking, all the right points are covered. You are the best!
Wow, thanks!
Thanks so much for this interesting review David. I am surprised with your comments on Subaru, very positive, . I think trying hard to improve there cars.
Very true!! They hired a new quality control person, not sure what his title is or background is, but there recalls are down significantly since his hire.
PS, I don’t want to hear about the cvt. I have driven them for years and never had one issue. Pushed them hard. In fact our new 22’ Forester Sport has improved. Never mind the new front end .. awesome !
Have you ever had any issues with your subarus?
Excellent review of two vehicles I'm interested in. I had the 2009, 2 litre diesel subaru legacy for 10 years before the crankshaft sheared on it but the car was bullet proof, fun to drive and very reliable so I know what Subaru are like. I'm waiting for the next one to come out in 2024, I believe it will have a better hybrid than the current 2l petrol/hybrid than we currently have in Ireland. I've read before, that it may have a hybrid as good as Toyotas. I'll be keeping an eye on your review of the new model when it comes out!
This is a great review. And very informative.
I also appreciate the transparency. As a RAV driver, you're still able to look at both vehicles in a fair and unbiased manner.
As a long time Toyota driver myself, I agree that you just can't go wrong with the brand.
This is why looking at Subaru for the first time has me at once excited, but also a little hesitant.
I know if I go with the RAV I will have that bulletproof brand in Toyota.
But while the RAV will have that automatic reliability, there are other things it just doesn't provide.
For me, at 6'3, the RAV feels too compact. It's too closed in and just doesn't give me the space that the Forester does. I can see your observations on how it the RAV has a little more interior refinement and luxury and the drive is equally solid. But I really like how the Subaru drives too. It handles very well for what I need.
You make a good point about the over-the-dash visibility possibly being intruded upon by that second screen in the Subaru. I never thought about that. And a good point.
However, when you hopped in the RAV, that is a massive infotainment screen which also juts up and would definitely pull my focus as well. Maybe even more than the Subaru.
So the question is do I risk the reliability for comfort?
It certainly doesn't sound like buying into a Subaru is going to be an automatic snake pit of one repair after the next based on your review here. The Subaru's CVT engine clearly won't be as well-embraced as the engine in the RAV. Most car reviewers agree on that.
But they also say the CVT isn't awful anymore either. Subaru has worked with it and refined it a bit.
Still, it's always a risk to move into something different. Especially when what you're moving away from is so reliable.
I could size up to a Highlander, but I just don't like them all that much. And the 4-Runner is just a little too much car for me, with really bad mpg numbers.
I'm leaning toward the Subaru.
Thanks for the great and honest review.
Agree with Merdad, I am in my 4 Subaru after Toyota forever. I honestly don’t see any reliable difference. Even our Ascent which people call it the black cheep of the family. It will be 4 years with us in less than a month. It did have a CVT recall (it was all about software). We drove to Ca and back to Fl. Zero issues. My first Subaru was a 2012 Outback which my daughter inherited. It’s still running with over 270,000 miles. Never touch the CVT.
I really love the Toyotas what I really hate about the new Toyota’s is their seat comfort. I had two Hybrid Camry. Super reliable but, the seating was painful. We still own an old 2009 Venza. We will never sell it. Sooooo reliable and the seats are extremely comfortable.
I’m feeling like you are, as a long time Toyota and Lexus driver and loyalist. I’m going for the Subaru Forester for safety, comfort (the rav and venza are too crunched- I hit my head getting in but Highlander is too big for me). I just think Subaru has a great car, and with some shared technologies with Toyota as a company, I feel comfortable doing so.
I’m sad to go from a hybrid (have a Prius but need height clearance being back in Midwest, plus I’m in snow belt) to a non-hybrid gas car (which was my hesitance), but the Subaru drives so well and has a nicer experience to me than the Toyota lineup or Honda CR-V. You bet I will upgrade excitedly when we get that electric forester of my dreams. 😂 I’m fully leaning into my Subaru love and excitement for what it to come, but welcome to being one of many Toyota drivers feeling the same!!
@@M.R.1525 Your comment is a Gem! Thanks for sharing the useful tips. I actually saved your comment in my phone notepad😅. Will take it as a reference. Thanks.
I was in a dilemma over choosing between the two and the though i was inclined more towards Subaru, I wasnt sure about the reliability as a long term vehicle like the miles you have mentioned and compared to Toyota as a brand. Subaru is a clear win for me and will be taking 2023 Subaru Forester wilderness. Thanks
A year later. . .I am curious-did you get a Subaru? Any regrets?
Thanks for a thorough review! Would be great if your reviews can get more technical into the engine design!
Great review. Would have liked to hear your thoughts about storage capacity
Great fair comparison ,both great SUVs.Our 2016 Rav4 has been very enjoyable & reliable & can see advantages of Rav4 prime plug in hybrid. Wait in Canada for one is over a great so will keep driving our gas Rav4 for awhile. Cheers
The Rav4 is a much more expensive model. It would have been a better review to compare two similarly-priced models, not one that is nearly twice as expensive as the other.
Fun fact, they do make a hybrid version of the forester, called the “Forester E-Boxer” it’s only available in Japan, and Europe.
And all the reviewers hated it. Unfortunately it isn’t a really good car
What really has me looking more at Subarus is their ground clearance and better capabilities on unpaved roads/trails. I still believe that a Toyota will last longer though.
check again, almost same price. subaru a little bit more expensive
@@nickgee388 Yeah, but the symmetrical AWD make it worth it. Real AWD rather than slip and grip. Plus the aforementioned ground clearance. These are places where there is no room for compromise if you really need AWD, rather than just say you have it!
@@M.R.1525 how did you come to this decision regarding the oil change times?
@@alansach8437 That is absolutely false. Subaru awd isn't any more real than anyone else. Has a clutch pack that constantly sends power to the front and adjusts power to the rear as needed. Just like everyone else. In fact, Subaru awd systems are arguably worse than many of its rivals. CVT severely limits initial torque to prevent damage. A regular automatic does so in a much less noticeable manner. Other rivals have locking rear differentials and the availability of a low range. Subaru does not. You're right. There is no compromise. Subaru awd is outperformed by others. Jeep Cherokee, Ford Bronco Sport, Mitsubishi Outlander just to name a few. Subaru marketing is phenomenal though. They've really got people believing their systems are spectacular. When in fact its been outperformed on numerous YT channels countless times.
Just getting ready to trade my 13 year old Forester with over 170,000 miles. I've had Toyotas and Hondas, love mine in the snow. Nothing is like it.
Very much enjoyed the video. One thing I am always curious about is how well do environmental controls work in either type of hybrid - A/C and heat.
Amazing video! Thanks for the good work!
how well do Subaru CVT's hold up long term? Long term meaning 10 years plus. Really long term would be comparable to my 24 yr old CRV that has only had trans fluid done with no issues. Will they hold up with regular basic maintenance such as that? or more complex?
What a great review! This reviewer is excellent!
David will you review the new Mazda CX50. Same proven drive train as most Mazdas but built in a new factory with new workers. I'm deciding between the CX5 and the new CX50.
Yes I already have that booked and will review it once I drive it in a few months
David I would like to see your 'Comparison' of the Japanese vs Canadian vs American RAV4 build Quality.
We recently acquired a 2022 RAV4 Limited Hybrid however, we had to settle for an American Built one.
I would of at least like to have received the Canadian build over the American build.
However, we waited 6 months for our Hybrid as it is so in many ways we are very grateful.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce these videos....
As an Industrial Engineer with a Black Belt certification, I LOVE other engineers who pay attention to assembly margins and paint tolerances! 😍 👍 it’s much more important than people realize. I can also confirm that a car made in Japan is preferable to one base in the US or Canada. The Japanese are obsessed with zero variances and pursue perfection and processes under complete control. I love the RAV4 Prime but it’s the price is higher than I wanted to pay for a car. I’ve tested it and it’s a dream to drive.
Would have been amusing to compare with a McLaren.
Hi David, can you do the gap and paint thickness measurements for the Tesla model 3? Very interesting to know the Tesla quality. Thanks so much.
Yes I should do that! I do have a friend who has a model 3 and in recent years, the gap/fit has been surprising good!
The comparison is so unfair because the RAV4 Prime costs almost twice as much as the Forester, especially with all the dealer markups due to a shortage of supply of RAV4 Primes.
When I was shopping they were both around 40k.
Had a 2006 Forester and it was as nimble as a cat. Never drove anything quite comparable. I can just imagine what driving a 2022 model might feel like. Thinking that I might just go out and get me one.
The funny thing us the fxt is as sloppy as I could ever tolerate and my wife's out handles most american pos cars easily while getting better mileage and benefits of suv body (life long true sports car driver and racer here btw)
I have a 2022 Forrester. The wind and cabin noise is my only complaint.
Super detailed review. Outstanding job!
Much appreciated!
I almost bought the Forrester but the dealer, and resulting service, was about 40 miles away from our house. The Toyota dealer is a mile away so we ended up with the RAV4. No complaints on the purchase.
LoL I agree with everything you said about the cars. Wow. By the way my dealer wanted to pay me $25k to take back my 2019 forester after 3yrs 17k miles. I paid $27k in Oct 2018
Nice review David thanks for sharing this video.👍👍👍
Hi,, what is the Direct Shift-8-speed eCVT offered only in non-prime XSE and Limited and how is it different than the normal eCVT on other models ?
Hi Dave! Depending on the colour of the car, do car manufacturers sometimes vary in paint thickness & quality? So would this dark green Forester just happen to have thinner paint compared to same Forester model but say in white or silver? 🤷♀️🧐
Metallic paint is always thicker because it has actual flakes... and some paint has extra layer (often with optional paints)
Hello Dave! I’m desperately waiting for you to examine a Subaru Outback Premier XT and/or Outback Wilderness trim. Please? 😅
this is a comparison on the 2022 models. What about for the 2023 models?
Hi, I love this analysis! Is "prime" the same as "premium" in Rav 4?
Great Video David! Very helpful!
You are amazing with your reviews!
Thank you so much!
really good information greatly assist me in decision-making process.
I own a 2017 Subaru Forester XT myself. We did cross shop out with the last generation Rav4 but didn't like the cabin and driving feel of the Rav4. Plus Subaru AWD is a full-time AWD vs Rav4 front wheel drive bias AWD. Test drove a 2021 Rav4 Prime and I notice there's a lot of vibration when the engine is in charge mode.
I’ve read newer Subarus are also front wheel drive biased AWD however I perceive them to have a stronger AWD system than other transversal-engine AWD’s. Subaru spends a lot of $ marketing their “Symmetrical AWD”
@@japerezo75 Do you know which model have a FWD bias AWD? From I read, Subaru AWD are 60/40 split in power minus the manual, which is a 50/50.
@@Lucky-ii3ft no I don’t
Subaru is front drive biased 60/40 split for all cvt models. It has a clutch pack and can differentiate the torque based upon the system need. Every awd vehicle currently made in North America has a similar set up. There's nothing stronger, more robust, more powerful, or any other ridiculous word to describe Subaru's awd system. Symmetrical simply means the driveshaft is mounted directly in the center of the vehicle behind the boxer engine. Symmetrical provides absolutely no benefit that modern computers and programming can't surpass. However, 10-20 years ago, it was superb at distributing torque evenly that unsymmetrical setups had difficulty competing with.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 Yes, Subaru CVT AWD are 60/40, but if you ever drive on icey road with a Rav4 next to you. You'll see the difference. Rav4 are FWD biased AWD as in the rear wheel only get power on damand, which mean you have to spin your front wheel for a bit before any power gets back to the rear wheel. While Subaru offer 40% power to the rear wheel all the time no matter the road conditions. So in that aspect, it's already better than the Rav4 AWD.
Outstanding Engineering Review !!! 👌
@AutomotivePress I would love your thoughts on the Rav4 Hybrid vs the Forester. I'm looking at 2023 versions of both. If you know what kind of mileage you are getting with your Rav4 Hybrid, I'd be very interested in knowing that. Also any thoughts regarding expected reliability over the long haul (8+ years) for both the Forester and Rav4 Hybrid. Thanks!
I also thought that small panel was a wast ....but I have come to love it...
Larry Kosilla from Ammo NYC has said that Subaru has some of the best paint in the industry. They are up there with Porsche, and WAAAY better than most cars that cost 2-3x more
This is a great review. Thank you
Very good review. Thanks a lot
I have a 2015 Honda Civic and planning to upgrade and try out a different car brand in a couple years! Ive been checking out Subarus, Mazda and Toyota🎉
the 2022 Forester is a class act....
Interesting and excellent review of these two vehicles.
Glad you like them!
Can you do Ascent vs Highlander
Very impressed with the review…thanks
Thanks for watching!
I hope you can show when you're driving in the snow, flood, and muddy and icy roads.
As an owner of a 2012 Prius plug-in, the Rav4 Prime is perhaps three generations more advanced hybrid plug-in technology.
Can you please elaborate why you prefer a traditional transmission over a CVT? I'm curious on the pros and cons for my next car purchase. Thanks!
I am a certified mechanic for close to 50 years. CVT is a gearless transmission and is the only automatic transmission that Subaru has been using since 1989. They are lightweight and more efficient to help the manufacturers achieve gas mileage standards set by the government. Other car makers like Nissan have been a disaster with their belt driven CVTs. But Subaru has a chain driven system and has no intention of going back to conventional transmissions. As long as you dont overwork them by towing heavy trailers or beating them up offroad you should have no problems.
How to determine the CVT is working while driving?
@@marygracedagatan68 Low engine revs even at high speeds
Great videos and information about both vehicles.David how can you tell the different which make in Japan and in America?Thanks
You can tell by the VIN. If it begins with a J it was built in Japan
vin# on Japan built vehicles begin with J
@@albertcarlisle5763 thank you
What is the actual fuel consumption? Litres per 100km? For the Forester.
This two complete different suv. Can you review please Forester vs gas RAV4? That would be fair. Prime is so overpriced for very few miles in electric mode. No, thanks for Prime I would go hybrid. But better if they will ever make Toyota’s hybrid system in outback body. They making EV together, I think a lot more people would appreciate to have Forester or Outback made with Toyota hybrid system
David, why do you think that Subaru does not want to continue with the STI and why has it not ventured into the issue of hybrid cars?
It's good question but honestly, I think anything can change. All the companies are waiting to see what happens with the EV situation and will likely shift their strategy accordingly. Since Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, their strategic direction has to also align with Toyota's, so things aren't so simple anymore for Subaru. They do have a Crosstrek hybrid though... and I'm sure that Forester will get electrified soon.
Having worked for various car makers over the years, I have noticed that any first generation new models have taken most carmakers 3 to 5 years of recalls for serious problems to be resolved. The consumers are basically the crash dummies for anything new on the market. Toyota however, is the only company that I have seen who gets most things right, followed by Subaru. Toyota for example got their hybrid cars right the first time with the Prius. The difference is these 2 companies have the consumer in mind. They want to make cars that will last 20 years so you can hand them down to family members and make you a lifetime customer. Most other carmakers build things to only last until the warranty expires and throw it away. They care about their CEOs and end of the year bonuses more than their customers. Look under the hood of any Toyota or Subaru and you will see top quality electronic parts made by top companies like Nippondenso, Hitachi, etc. while other carmakers are using vendors from the cheapest sources available with the cheapest labor markets. Even the quality of the steel is noticable. Toyota and Subaru use top quality steel and rustproof the entire chassis during assembly. They safety coat brake and fuel lines as well. I keep very busy replacing brake lines that rust away prematurely but I wonder how many lives were lost by engineering that puts profits over principal. Subaru has customer loyalty with their affordable AWD system and boxer engine and they dont want to change what works. Same thing with Toyota regarding the Camry and Corolla. It would be business suicide to stop making your top selling products that everyone wants. As far as electric cars, I dont believe it's the answer yet as nationwide charging networks will be needed and like everything else, prices will come down once perfected and plentiful. It's too experimental and expensive right now.
Which is most reliable and will last longer (with regular maintenance upkeep)? Forester or RAV4?
How can i buy this suv that is really japan made rather than Canada or US only made. I live in Toronto Canada. Thanks.
There isn’t even a question .. the quality, safety and all wheel drive ability of the Subaru and far superior. Whether snow or rain, they are amazing. Function and materials quality is way above Toyota. Plus the Forester will definitely have better resale. They don’t fleet sell them to rental car companies for starters. This helps value for Suburu. Also, Subaru actually gives back to a cause you pick .. what more do you want ?
Not too mention that Subaru has state of the art factories that are environmentally responsible. Subaru is the only car that has all the wheels directly connected to the transmission without the use of a transfer case, thus making it the most effective vehicle for traction in the snow. No other vehicle even comes close. And the affordable price for AWD blows away the competition unless of course you purchase the fully loaded maxed out models. As a technician I strongly recommend Subaru or Toyota as the top 2 carmakers. I do not recommend overspending for turbocharged versions which can place a lot more stress and wear on mechanical parts and shorten life expectancy. Keep up with regular maintenance like oil changes and keep the antifreeze clean once every bv 3 years and the boxer engines will run forever
Amen
I thought you would've stated the engine size and hp of the rav since you did for the subi
I own a Subaru Forester Sport which has about 800 miles on it. As much as I love the look of the car I have had to call roadside assistance four times for a dead battery. There is so much stuff on this model that the battery is not heavy duty enough to maintain all the electronics. I contacted the dealer and they told me to continue calling roadside assistance. You cannot run a Lear jet on a flashlight battery. I’m not a fan of Toyota but have had great success with twenty years of Honda. The reason I didn’t get another one is because the body styles didn’t change enough from 2017. I would steer away from the Subaru altogether. You get zero customer service. The world sure changes when you are no longer twenty and blonde.
4 dead batteries in just 800 miles. Unbelievable.
They lost a class action suit on batteries and might be obliged to replace your battery. Check online.
what about the transmission? My cousin's legacy needed transmission work for a tune of $3,000.00
Excellent review, both are really nice vehicles , I would probably purchase the Subaru. I think for 2023 will will see a power boost,that’s all it really needs
After test driving damn near every vehicle in existance the Prime was an easy choice...if I can get one that is. My only gripe is the head unit which I would swap out for an all touchscreen aftermarket unit that looks better has more features and more power output to speakers. I never liked Toyota but the Ptime made me a fan! Supposedly one is coming this week for me and I only had to wait a month so 🤞
A family friend of mine who is a mechanic says to avoid Subarus because of their gaskets always go bad and is very expensive to fix. I guess he gets a lot of those issues in his shop.
Why do the panel gaps matter?
I would like to see the stopping distance test and also more info on how the brake paddle and accelerater paddle feels. This makes a huge difference in comfort in the long run but it's normally not included in vehicle comparisons. I had a 2020 Corolla and all controls felt really good and not cheap as one would think. Even the SE model that I had drove over railway crossing really well absorbing the bumps.
I traded off my 2019 Corolla XSE hatchback for a 2021 WRX. The Corolla is well designed inside but that’s it. The car looks like it would be quick or peppy but it wasn’t. The safety features were cool but I found myself disabling or not using any of them. I probably won’t buy anything other than a Subaru from now on. Hands down a better ride and more exhilarating.
I have both these cars. I also have a ford, a bmw, an audi, a couple mazdas, a couple vw's, a holden, a jaguar and a lexus. Overall they are good cars 👍
Subaru's logo is based on the constellation Pleades which represents the five groups who continued the company's legacy and the bigger star is the founder Mr. Chikuhei
I have a 2017 Rav 4, Toyota long term reliability is the best there is. My siblings have owned Subarus, both have engines with oil consumption issues. The non turbo 4 cyl in my Rav 4 will easily go 200k miles with routine maintenance. The Subaru’s had to have engines replaced. Subaru is very innovative just don’t have the resources Toyota has and cut corners.
RAV4 prime needs to update it’s information tech !
I wish the RAV4 would update its infotainment system. It’s the only thing stopping my wife and I from buying one.
Your getting your wish!
This October-November time frame when model year 2023 comes out. Also updating the Corollas infotainment.
@@rick8125 Amazing. About bloody time.
Wow - thank you- never seen anyone do body specs like that.
You're welcome and thank you for watching!
The RAV4 Hybrid with it's fantastic gas mileage alone makes it the clear winner. Remember the Rav4 Hybrid is AWD without a drive shaft.
We have a 2014 XT version.. and overall it's been very good. However the common issue with one insert on left edge of driver sear cracking (and same on passenger only much longer into the life) was NOT impressive esp given teh price class.. I would have accepted that as a common issue and been fine if Subaru Canada had issued a recall and fixed it.. but not only did they fail on that their extended warranty does NOT cover that. The would cover replacing the entire $1000+ seat etc if something failed in the electrical parts.. but wouldn't even offer a simple repair of the one panel which according to 2 shops I asked that deal with such.. they could have had done for the particular model (only one model and trim had this issue) probably $200 or less w/labor.. just by developing a simple panel replacement whith a overlay and quick stitching
Now that said.. the fact they failed to offer this with a true manual was it's biggest downfall.. IMO
But that said the CVT in the XT is heavier built and does its job quite well. and thankfully NO IDIOT HYBRID that only jacks up costs and is a guaranteed major expense down the road
Nonsense. Hybrids are arguably making cars last longer due to reduced wear on engines. Many, many Toyota hybrids are used as taxis for example and hitting 500k miles no problem.
I had a same problem with my 15 XT
U need to look at the stats and big poc only 1 hybrid so far to get to market was even done right re reliability ffs the rest continue to loose money esp for dolts buying em
Does anyone know which CVT transmission Subaru uses (made, brand)? I prefer Subaru Outback. And no, I don't own either Subaru or Rav 4. Just wondering about my future car choice. Right now I am fine with my 4 Runner...
Subaru designs & manufactures their own CVTs.
@@jonhansen4745 and these still sucks, especially for the off road, where you need more torque
David, I suspect few people have more respect than I do for the 'sensible shoes' approach Subaru brings to their designs where visibility, practicality and function generally reign supreme. Having said that, it has been two decades since Toyota took a major stake in Fuji Heavy Industries and I cannot understand why a small company like Subaru still relies on their own comparatively minor development resources. I highlight this concern because Subaru has NEVER matched the long term QDR and lifespan Toyota products routinely achieve. Perhaps the whole industry is moving to electric powertrains in the next few years but I simply do not understand why Subaru has continued to design separate engines, transmission etc after all these years. 🤔
Great question Mike. At the end of the day, Toyota still only owns 20% of Subaru, so Subaru has a lot of freedom to do what they want (for now). The issue of QDR is more complicated, since it depends a lot on where they are made. The Japanese made Subaru's have been reasonably good but yes it's difficult to catch up to Toyota. At some point, I would assume that more and more collabs will happen between Subaru and Toyota and so the developmental work will align together.
@@AutomotivePress David, As ever, you are very diplomatic in your considered, professional response. Let me put it this way, I am sure we all noticed the new electric twins from Toyota and Subaru do not have horizontally opposed, 'boxer' electric motors 😉
@@rightlanehog3151 the Solterra will probably be Subaru’s most reliable model in their current lineup 😬.
I agree with you about the buttons I like the old fashion buttons
The Forester needs to be brought up in power to at least 215-220 hp. Imagine if it had 6 cylinders and a true gear transmission.. That would be amazing!
As someone who just purchased a forester and considered a rav 4 I can hands down say I feel like I made the right choice. The rav 4 was 4th on my list behind the Honda crv and the Mazda cx5 but none of them could offer the all wheel drive capabilities of the Subaru. They all have cheap peg leg systems that aren’t as safe and as someone who has to deal with snow regularly that was a determining factor for me. If you want technology go with the Honda or the Mazda. If you want longevity get the Toyota. If you want safety and reliability nothing compares to Subaru. The Toyota felt cheap I’m. It really sure how else to explain it.
Had a 2919 Subaru Forester and at14000 miles it had a “sudden, unexpected, acceleration “ issue crashing resulting in a crash into a concrete block wall totaling the car . The manufacture date was Sept 2018
Coincidence, this puts it right up there with previous Toyota Rav 4's, hopefully one day in the far distant future we will find out what is causing this, the manufacturer sure won't tell us.
I had same with a 2016. Was braking going into a parking space and it suddenly accelerated. Luckily no one hurt but also totaled. Torque magazine identified a class action suit for 2015-2019 related to a fuel pump malfunction. There was a recall for some outback’s and other models but not forester yet.
I was so excited to see this…until I found it was a rav4 prime. I was curious to see a rav4 or rav4 hybrid compared to the forester. Not the ev.
I've learned a lot, Sir. Arigato Kujaimasue.
You're very welcome! Doitashimashite
Both cars are good, but for me I’m go with RAV4
I am concerned some about the boxer engine and oil leaks. We just traded our Forester for the Rav4 Prime. I prefer the Rav4 Prime, my wife favors the Subaru a little. They are both nice cars and the Subaru served us well.
How did you get your hands on a rav 4 prime. I've been on a waitlist for 5 months!!!
Oil leaks are an issue with older Subies, Problems solved as Consumer Reports rates Subaru second to none on reliability and safety...
it was only a few years, 12-14, the rings were not the correct size. I bought a 12 not knowing this and it failed the leak test and was out of the 10 year warranty but my local dealer
replace the short block for 1800 and picked up the 4000 and put in spark plugs for free so I am good for another 100K. subaru america really went to bat for me.
I am more shocked in 12 they still only had a 4 speed auto, everybody is 5+ going back 10 years prior so I only get 23 which is poor for a 4 cyl lightweight car.